Diebold is dead. Sorta.
August 17, 2007 11:57 PM Subscribe
Diebold Election Systems is no more (at least in name). Taking a page from the cigarette companies, Diebold is changing their name and hoping to reverse the downward spiral after their recent news.
This changes everything!
posted by mullingitover at 12:00 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by mullingitover at 12:00 AM on August 18, 2007
....Diebold will generate $120 million less revenue than the previously expected range of $185 million to $215 million.
posted by null terminated at 12:01 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by null terminated at 12:01 AM on August 18, 2007
Yeah, a rebranding will save them. [rolls eyes]
It's good to see the tide has turned against them. We shouldn't tolerate any sort of shenanigans in our electoral process. Especially not shenanigans that allow for tempering with vote counts without any sort of paper trail.
posted by bshort at 12:02 AM on August 18, 2007
It's good to see the tide has turned against them. We shouldn't tolerate any sort of shenanigans in our electoral process. Especially not shenanigans that allow for tempering with vote counts without any sort of paper trail.
posted by bshort at 12:02 AM on August 18, 2007
ValuJet changed their name too. You may say 'reverse merger.' Potaytah potahtah. It's a corporate survival technique; they gamble that the human race really is that fuckin' stupid. Sadly, the gamble has been known to pay off. "AirTran" is still alive and well, and apparently most people have forgotten Flight 592. After all, it happened so long ago.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:15 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by ZachsMind at 12:15 AM on August 18, 2007
I think it's totally inexcusable that it took so long for them to get beat up a bit for being either absurdly negligent or fraudulent.
We've made some steps in the right direction. Their machines have been demonstrated laughably insecure. I get the sense California is really only willing to tolerate this kind of shit a few more times.
:/
posted by aubilenon at 12:20 AM on August 18, 2007
We've made some steps in the right direction. Their machines have been demonstrated laughably insecure. I get the sense California is really only willing to tolerate this kind of shit a few more times.
:/
posted by aubilenon at 12:20 AM on August 18, 2007
If you want to see the news associated with their stock price, check out http://finance.google.com/finance?q=dbd&hl=en. Be sure to try the little scrollbar at the bottom of the chart.
posted by Hello Dad, I'm in Jail at 12:36 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by Hello Dad, I'm in Jail at 12:36 AM on August 18, 2007
Diebold makes ATMs, too. Maybe if I mash the keypad it'll start spitting out $20s.
posted by stavrogin at 12:43 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by stavrogin at 12:43 AM on August 18, 2007
And somewhere someone wonders if this could work for individuals as well...hmmmmm....
the ripples roll and the screen clues you in to the fact that the coming scene is taking place in this someone's imagination....
hmmmmm....A disembodied voice begins to speak:
"And walking up to the podium the president is planning on speaking about the impending trial."
From the sea of turbulent reporters bobs a question...like a snagged mackerel it springs out..."Mr. President, what was the pivot from which your terminal slide turned?"
"Well, I was on vacation and I got ta thinkin', ya see, and I had this here idea. I says to myself, Georgie, if everyone starts callin' me Mr. President Santa Claus, ya see, nobody could think any ill of me. I started wearing that red suit the next week, and it just sorta took off from there. We still got that three term thingy here don't we?
...
and then the delirious went to bed...
posted by Sir BoBoMonkey Pooflinger Esquire III at 12:44 AM on August 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
the ripples roll and the screen clues you in to the fact that the coming scene is taking place in this someone's imagination....
hmmmmm....A disembodied voice begins to speak:
"And walking up to the podium the president is planning on speaking about the impending trial."
From the sea of turbulent reporters bobs a question...like a snagged mackerel it springs out..."Mr. President, what was the pivot from which your terminal slide turned?"
"Well, I was on vacation and I got ta thinkin', ya see, and I had this here idea. I says to myself, Georgie, if everyone starts callin' me Mr. President Santa Claus, ya see, nobody could think any ill of me. I started wearing that red suit the next week, and it just sorta took off from there. We still got that three term thingy here don't we?
...
and then the delirious went to bed...
posted by Sir BoBoMonkey Pooflinger Esquire III at 12:44 AM on August 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Grind, grind, grind.
posted by orthogonality at 12:44 AM on August 18, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by orthogonality at 12:44 AM on August 18, 2007 [2 favorites]
I think Sir BoBoMonkey Pooflinger wins the thread.
posted by stavrogin at 12:49 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by stavrogin at 12:49 AM on August 18, 2007
I'm surprised they didn't go with Compassionate Election Systems.
posted by srboisvert at 2:23 AM on August 18, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 2:23 AM on August 18, 2007 [4 favorites]
Diebold: With A Vengeance
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:31 AM on August 18, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:31 AM on August 18, 2007 [3 favorites]
"The change to Premier signals a new beginning for the company, emphasizing Premier's leadership position and proven expertise in election solutions."
*proven expertise*
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:41 AM on August 18, 2007
*proven expertise*
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:41 AM on August 18, 2007
Sir BoBoMonkey Pooflinger Esquire III: "I says to myself, Georgie, if everyone starts callin' me Mr. President Santa Claus, ya see, nobody could think any ill of me. I started wearing that red suit the next week, and it just sorta took off from there. We still got that three term thingy here don't we?"
I'm more afraid that he might pass an executive order as his last act as a president after the next election: that from then on his name would be "Hillary Clinton"...
posted by PontifexPrimus at 4:30 AM on August 18, 2007
I'm more afraid that he might pass an executive order as his last act as a president after the next election: that from then on his name would be "Hillary Clinton"...
posted by PontifexPrimus at 4:30 AM on August 18, 2007
ZachsMind: ""AirTran" is still alive and well, and apparently most people have forgotten Flight 592. After all, it happened so long ago."
I'm not sure if this metaphor is entirely fair. ValuJet was only partially at fault for flight 592 - for inadequately supervising SabreTech's shipping people. Did they do something wrong? Sure. Did they deserve to be punished for it? Probably, although they never were (outside of being grounded for 3.5 months). Did the company deserve to be destroyed by public opinion who had only heard of the company in reference to their one crash? I'd say no.
posted by Plutor at 5:25 AM on August 18, 2007
I'm not sure if this metaphor is entirely fair. ValuJet was only partially at fault for flight 592 - for inadequately supervising SabreTech's shipping people. Did they do something wrong? Sure. Did they deserve to be punished for it? Probably, although they never were (outside of being grounded for 3.5 months). Did the company deserve to be destroyed by public opinion who had only heard of the company in reference to their one crash? I'd say no.
posted by Plutor at 5:25 AM on August 18, 2007
Get back to me when we have a reverse poll tax that requires every citizen to vote. Voter apathy is a much greater threat to the system.
posted by geekyguy at 5:48 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by geekyguy at 5:48 AM on August 18, 2007
Diebolds ATMs apparently work pretty well. I just don't think there is any incentive for them to make their voting machines work well.
posted by chunking express at 6:44 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by chunking express at 6:44 AM on August 18, 2007
Oh darn, and I was so looking forward to being able to use these next year.
posted by fuse theorem at 6:47 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by fuse theorem at 6:47 AM on August 18, 2007
Diebold makes ATMs, too. Maybe if I mash the keypad it'll start spitting out $20s.
Only after you flash the camera the secret Republican gang sign.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:41 AM on August 18, 2007
Only after you flash the camera the secret Republican gang sign.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:41 AM on August 18, 2007
A rose by any other name...
A steaming mound by any other name...
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:41 AM on August 18, 2007
A steaming mound by any other name...
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:41 AM on August 18, 2007
Considering their arrogance I'm even surprised they give a shit what anyone thinks of them (except for republicans of course), anyhow they've always had a number of different names they worked under. I've always thought a boycott of banks that used Diebold ATMs would be a good way to punish them for their political nonsense but it's getting more and more difficult to find ATMs with any sort of branding on them. I wonder why...
posted by Skygazer at 7:52 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by Skygazer at 7:52 AM on August 18, 2007
Did the company deserve to be destroyed by public opinion who had only heard of the company in reference to their one crash? I'd say no.
I think I'd disagree, given the consequences of failure for an airline and for a voting machine corporation. In both cases, failure causes a lot of people to die tragic and avoidable deaths.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:55 AM on August 18, 2007
I think I'd disagree, given the consequences of failure for an airline and for a voting machine corporation. In both cases, failure causes a lot of people to die tragic and avoidable deaths.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:55 AM on August 18, 2007
A devasting exposé by "Dan Rather Reports" aired on Tuesday night (complete video here) will likely make Sequoia even more difficult to unload. The investigative report detailed seven Sequoia plant workers who testified on camera about a mysterious order to use inferior paper on the company's punch card ballots to be used in Florida during the 2000 election. As well, they were told --- despite the objections of the plant's quality control manager --- to change the alignment on the punch card chads being sent to Palm Beach County. Rather's report tested the inferior, misaligned ballots that were sent to the county anyway, in 2000, and found that "hanging chads" resulted on ballots that had punched through cleanly for years before the bad paper and re-alignment was forced by still-unnamed company officials.Woah, what the fuck!?
posted by delmoi at 8:16 AM on August 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Diebolds ATMs apparently work pretty well. I just don't think there is any incentive for them to make their voting machines work well.
Interestingly I was talking to someone who worked at my university about a documentary I saw about Bev Harris, and I mentioned Diebold. Apparently we use a Diebold system to manage student food purchasing. Kids go to dining centers and swipe their student IDs, and their dining plans are debited.
Anyway, a Diebold system is used and apparently it sucks ass and is always causing huge headaches.
Anyway, I was going to say that actually their was a pretty strong incentive to make their voting machines work pretty well, it's just that they didn't know about it. It's pretty damn real though, and it practically destroyed the company.
posted by delmoi at 8:23 AM on August 18, 2007
Interestingly I was talking to someone who worked at my university about a documentary I saw about Bev Harris, and I mentioned Diebold. Apparently we use a Diebold system to manage student food purchasing. Kids go to dining centers and swipe their student IDs, and their dining plans are debited.
Anyway, a Diebold system is used and apparently it sucks ass and is always causing huge headaches.
Anyway, I was going to say that actually their was a pretty strong incentive to make their voting machines work pretty well, it's just that they didn't know about it. It's pretty damn real though, and it practically destroyed the company.
posted by delmoi at 8:23 AM on August 18, 2007
Diebold makes ATMs, too. Maybe if I mash the keypad it'll start spitting out $20s.
Not Diebold, but someone reprogrammed a Tranax ATM to spit out $20s rather then $5s using instructions (a default password) found on their website.
posted by delmoi at 8:27 AM on August 18, 2007
Not Diebold, but someone reprogrammed a Tranax ATM to spit out $20s rather then $5s using instructions (a default password) found on their website.
posted by delmoi at 8:27 AM on August 18, 2007
I'm sure that in better times, the leaders of ValuJet and Diebold would have argued for less regulation. That a business should live or die on the basis of its reputation. That purchasers should be able to decide for themselves whether a company's products are of sufficient quality or safety. "Let the buyer decide and the free market work!"
Their reputations destroyed, the businesses just change their names and start afresh.
posted by grouse at 8:43 AM on August 18, 2007
Their reputations destroyed, the businesses just change their names and start afresh.
posted by grouse at 8:43 AM on August 18, 2007
Look. "ValuJet" is a horrible name. It sounds discount and fly by night, and when you have a jet crash in a swamp and passengers eaten by alligators it's over.
posted by 2sheets at 11:36 AM on August 18, 2007
posted by 2sheets at 11:36 AM on August 18, 2007
Diebolds ATMs apparently work pretty well. I just don't think there is any incentive for them to make their voting machines work well.
There damn well ought to be. There's a certain level of sloppiness with important things -- we could say, state secrets, since that's apparently a popularly convincing phrase these days, if you like, but there's always the far more mundane version of your taxes -- which if you trespass, you will find yourself in some deep shit.
Diebold should be in shit of at least a similar depth. "Sloppy" barely begins to describe it. At a minimum, what's been revealed so far reveals complete apathy to the integrity of a rather fundamental process -- if not outright contempt for it. Ideally the management would be in jail after these shenanigans.
but it's getting more and more difficult to find ATMs with any sort of branding on them.
Responsibility(TM).
seven Sequoia plant workers who testified on camera about a mysterious order to use inferior paper on the company's punch card ballots to be used in Florida during the 2000 election. As well, they were told --- despite the objections of the plant's quality control manager --- to change the alignment on the punch card chads being sent to Palm Beach County. Rather's report tested the inferior, misaligned ballots that were sent to the county anyway
Delmoi, don't you realize this is just a ploy from the liberal media to distract people from the real attempts to commit election fraud by libruls who register illegal immigrant supercriminals to vote?
Anyway, I was going to say that actually their was a pretty strong incentive to make their voting machines work pretty well, it's just that they didn't know about it. It's pretty damn real though, and it practically destroyed the company.
One can hope. If there's any way to help, I'm sure interested in hearing about it.
posted by namespan at 11:52 AM on August 18, 2007
There damn well ought to be. There's a certain level of sloppiness with important things -- we could say, state secrets, since that's apparently a popularly convincing phrase these days, if you like, but there's always the far more mundane version of your taxes -- which if you trespass, you will find yourself in some deep shit.
Diebold should be in shit of at least a similar depth. "Sloppy" barely begins to describe it. At a minimum, what's been revealed so far reveals complete apathy to the integrity of a rather fundamental process -- if not outright contempt for it. Ideally the management would be in jail after these shenanigans.
but it's getting more and more difficult to find ATMs with any sort of branding on them.
Responsibility(TM).
seven Sequoia plant workers who testified on camera about a mysterious order to use inferior paper on the company's punch card ballots to be used in Florida during the 2000 election. As well, they were told --- despite the objections of the plant's quality control manager --- to change the alignment on the punch card chads being sent to Palm Beach County. Rather's report tested the inferior, misaligned ballots that were sent to the county anyway
Delmoi, don't you realize this is just a ploy from the liberal media to distract people from the real attempts to commit election fraud by libruls who register illegal immigrant supercriminals to vote?
Anyway, I was going to say that actually their was a pretty strong incentive to make their voting machines work pretty well, it's just that they didn't know about it. It's pretty damn real though, and it practically destroyed the company.
One can hope. If there's any way to help, I'm sure interested in hearing about it.
posted by namespan at 11:52 AM on August 18, 2007
You can watch the episode of Dan Rather Reports (called The Trouble with Touch Screens) on line. It's worth watching, especially for the interview with the people who had been working at that paper factory. Well, it's just worth watching anyway to learn about the shoddy quality of our made in Manila sweatshops voting machines. Good episode.
Might make you ill though. While everyone has been screaming about security on these things, it's the reliability we should be screaming about, because they aren't terribly reliable.
posted by Orb at 12:28 PM on August 18, 2007
Might make you ill though. While everyone has been screaming about security on these things, it's the reliability we should be screaming about, because they aren't terribly reliable.
posted by Orb at 12:28 PM on August 18, 2007
Great! Now the Orwellian nightmare can continue unabated.
posted by Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson at 1:18 PM on August 18, 2007
posted by Arthur "Two Sheds" Jackson at 1:18 PM on August 18, 2007
posted by Hello Dad, I'm in Jail at 2:36 AM
Doesn't anybody get arrested at a reasonable hour anymore?
posted by popechunk at 1:28 PM on August 18, 2007
Doesn't anybody get arrested at a reasonable hour anymore?
posted by popechunk at 1:28 PM on August 18, 2007
geekyguy: "Voter apathy is a much greater threat to the system."
The reason for voter apathy IS the system.
People have stopped caring about the system because they know better than to believe the lies that their voice is being heard. It's a very sick joke, and you and me, we're the ones with 'kick me' signs on our backs.
The system hasn't worked in decades, and we're not all sheep. Those who continue voting: you're the sheep. Stop encouraging the wolves. Prance about like that any more and you'll just git eaten.
I for one feel like an idiot for voting as long as I have. I was perpetuating their lie. No more. I want that percentage of people voting to drop down so low, it will become painfully obvious to everyone just who's really making decisions, cuz some of those making decisions might be Americans, but that'd be mostly coincidence: it ain't The American People.
Quite frankly, I don't want The American People making those decisions either. These are the same people who actually watch television commercials, make phone calls to American Idol, and think that because Mattel put lead in their paint we should go to war with China.
I think we should institute a presidential draft. Give the job to the one person in the country who wants the job the least. Whoever tries the hardest not to get the job -- the one who has the least to gain by becoming president -- that's the guy I want in the Oval Office. He'll get stuff done as fast as possible so we'll let him go home.
"ValuJet was only partially at fault for flight 592..."
The DC-9 that we now call flight 592 had previously been decommissioned by Delta Airlines.
DELTA! Don't Even Leave The Airport! THAT Delta.
Delta said the plane in question was too old for THEM to use.
Yes. I'm aware that airplanes are bought and sold like this all the time. A bigger airline sells them to a smaller airline because they don't need it anymore and they're not worried about their competition. That doesn't change the fact that this was a plane even DELTA no longer wanted. This isn't like passing off your pickup truck to your buddy cuz you're done with her.
I'm sure this sorta thing happens all the time, and when it does, it's the airline's fault when that old soupcan falls outta the sky.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:32 PM on August 18, 2007
The reason for voter apathy IS the system.
People have stopped caring about the system because they know better than to believe the lies that their voice is being heard. It's a very sick joke, and you and me, we're the ones with 'kick me' signs on our backs.
The system hasn't worked in decades, and we're not all sheep. Those who continue voting: you're the sheep. Stop encouraging the wolves. Prance about like that any more and you'll just git eaten.
I for one feel like an idiot for voting as long as I have. I was perpetuating their lie. No more. I want that percentage of people voting to drop down so low, it will become painfully obvious to everyone just who's really making decisions, cuz some of those making decisions might be Americans, but that'd be mostly coincidence: it ain't The American People.
Quite frankly, I don't want The American People making those decisions either. These are the same people who actually watch television commercials, make phone calls to American Idol, and think that because Mattel put lead in their paint we should go to war with China.
I think we should institute a presidential draft. Give the job to the one person in the country who wants the job the least. Whoever tries the hardest not to get the job -- the one who has the least to gain by becoming president -- that's the guy I want in the Oval Office. He'll get stuff done as fast as possible so we'll let him go home.
"ValuJet was only partially at fault for flight 592..."
The DC-9 that we now call flight 592 had previously been decommissioned by Delta Airlines.
DELTA! Don't Even Leave The Airport! THAT Delta.
Delta said the plane in question was too old for THEM to use.
Yes. I'm aware that airplanes are bought and sold like this all the time. A bigger airline sells them to a smaller airline because they don't need it anymore and they're not worried about their competition. That doesn't change the fact that this was a plane even DELTA no longer wanted. This isn't like passing off your pickup truck to your buddy cuz you're done with her.
I'm sure this sorta thing happens all the time, and when it does, it's the airline's fault when that old soupcan falls outta the sky.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:32 PM on August 18, 2007
Get back to me when we have a reverse poll tax that requires every citizen to vote. Voter apathy is a much greater threat to the system.
I agree that voter apathy is a serious problem.
I very very strongly disagree that requiring people to vote is a good idea for dealing with voter apathy. Requiring people to vote won't make them any less apathetic; it will just mean that the apathetic people are now voting. Do you think that the people who didn't vote before are suddenly going to spend hours researching candidates' positions? Or are they just going to pick the person whose name they've heard more?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:24 AM on August 19, 2007
I agree that voter apathy is a serious problem.
I very very strongly disagree that requiring people to vote is a good idea for dealing with voter apathy. Requiring people to vote won't make them any less apathetic; it will just mean that the apathetic people are now voting. Do you think that the people who didn't vote before are suddenly going to spend hours researching candidates' positions? Or are they just going to pick the person whose name they've heard more?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:24 AM on August 19, 2007
When voting becomes a requirement of citizenship more citizens will pay attention. The attitude of, "I can vote but I don't because I'm such a rebel" needs to be squashed out.
I'm not saying that change is easy, I'm only suggesting that change is becoming more and more necessary.
posted by geekyguy at 7:27 AM on August 19, 2007
I'm not saying that change is easy, I'm only suggesting that change is becoming more and more necessary.
posted by geekyguy at 7:27 AM on August 19, 2007
When voting becomes a requirement of citizenship more citizens will pay attention. The attitude of, "I can vote but I don't because I'm such a rebel" needs to be squashed out.
When citizenship becomes once again a value we take care to instill in children, at home and in schools, more of them will grow up to become active responsible citizens. The attitude of "You young whippersnappers should vote JUST BECAUSE THE OLD PEOPLE SAID SO" needs to be squashed out.
If we don't teach young people why citizenship matters when they're impressionable enough to really internalize the message, how on earth can we expect them to pop out of the system at 18 with a single ounce of give-a-shit?
The problem with the idea of "voter apathy" is that it implies that people ever cared to begin with, but just somehow lost it. I don't believe that Generation X, Y or later ever cared to begin with... and I'm not sure they are wholly to blame for that.
posted by pineapple at 9:09 AM on August 19, 2007
When citizenship becomes once again a value we take care to instill in children, at home and in schools, more of them will grow up to become active responsible citizens. The attitude of "You young whippersnappers should vote JUST BECAUSE THE OLD PEOPLE SAID SO" needs to be squashed out.
If we don't teach young people why citizenship matters when they're impressionable enough to really internalize the message, how on earth can we expect them to pop out of the system at 18 with a single ounce of give-a-shit?
The problem with the idea of "voter apathy" is that it implies that people ever cared to begin with, but just somehow lost it. I don't believe that Generation X, Y or later ever cared to begin with... and I'm not sure they are wholly to blame for that.
posted by pineapple at 9:09 AM on August 19, 2007
When voting becomes a requirement of citizenship more citizens will pay attention.
Some will pay additional attention, I grant. I contend that the number who pay additional attention would be far far outweighed by the number who vote and still don't pay attention.
The attitude of, "I can vote but I don't because I'm such a rebel" needs to be squashed out.
"I can vote but I don't because I don't care" is far more prevalent than "I can vote but I don't because I'm such a rebel" in my experience. If you doubt it, just consider your original comment which I was responding to: it is voter apathy you cite as a serious problem, not rebelliousness among voters. Forcing people to vote might cure the misplaced sense of rebelliousness which leads a few people not to vote, but it does nothing for the far more widespread problem of actual voter apathy.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:10 AM on August 19, 2007
Some will pay additional attention, I grant. I contend that the number who pay additional attention would be far far outweighed by the number who vote and still don't pay attention.
The attitude of, "I can vote but I don't because I'm such a rebel" needs to be squashed out.
"I can vote but I don't because I don't care" is far more prevalent than "I can vote but I don't because I'm such a rebel" in my experience. If you doubt it, just consider your original comment which I was responding to: it is voter apathy you cite as a serious problem, not rebelliousness among voters. Forcing people to vote might cure the misplaced sense of rebelliousness which leads a few people not to vote, but it does nothing for the far more widespread problem of actual voter apathy.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:10 AM on August 19, 2007
(Actually, I've known quite a few people who thought they were making a statement by not voting. My old housemate's take was that voting was "what They want you to do," so he refused.
Mind you, a tax on non-voters would just have gotten him more riled up about the apparent conspiracy. I'm not saying such a tax would be a good idea; I'm just saying that "rebellious" non-voters do exist.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:13 AM on August 19, 2007
Mind you, a tax on non-voters would just have gotten him more riled up about the apparent conspiracy. I'm not saying such a tax would be a good idea; I'm just saying that "rebellious" non-voters do exist.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:13 AM on August 19, 2007
GeekyGuy: "When voting becomes a requirement of citizenship more citizens will pay attention."
Did you actually read those words when you typed them out? How do you police that? If someone refuses to vote, what are you gonna do? You cart them off to Cuba? Tatoo a red A on their forehead? Refuse to let them join in on your reindeer games? Tell them they can't participate in jury duty? Point them out on the DiamondVision screen at the baseball stadium during the seventh inning stretch and convince the masses to boo at him?
Even if you COULD do what you're suggesting, which you can't, the fact is that forcing people to not be apathetic when it comes to voting is addressing the symptom of the disease. That's like putting a tourinquet at the hip but not resetting the knee and putting a splint to the leg. You're still gonna lose the leg if you don't address the fact that it's broken.
Figure out why you got voter apathy. Nip THAT in the bud, then voter apathy will go away. And the answer is not brainwashing the next generation into believing that voting matters when it still doesn't. The answer is make voting actually matter. Right now it's a joke. Votes don't count. Why should anyone vote when it's ludicrously irrelevant?
If you tell me I'm wrong, that voting is still somehow relevant? I got the last two presidential elections backing me up. What you got? Hope? Faith? Try history. Try physics. Try mathematics. Try common sense. Until the political system is fixed in this country, please stop voting. Please stop helping them perpetuate this illusion that we actually matter.
Diebold being 'sorta' dead? It's three card monte. It's a shell game. You and me, we're just suckers in all of this. Stop allowing yourself to be suckered.
If you're still voting, you're a part of the problem.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:39 PM on August 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Did you actually read those words when you typed them out? How do you police that? If someone refuses to vote, what are you gonna do? You cart them off to Cuba? Tatoo a red A on their forehead? Refuse to let them join in on your reindeer games? Tell them they can't participate in jury duty? Point them out on the DiamondVision screen at the baseball stadium during the seventh inning stretch and convince the masses to boo at him?
Even if you COULD do what you're suggesting, which you can't, the fact is that forcing people to not be apathetic when it comes to voting is addressing the symptom of the disease. That's like putting a tourinquet at the hip but not resetting the knee and putting a splint to the leg. You're still gonna lose the leg if you don't address the fact that it's broken.
Figure out why you got voter apathy. Nip THAT in the bud, then voter apathy will go away. And the answer is not brainwashing the next generation into believing that voting matters when it still doesn't. The answer is make voting actually matter. Right now it's a joke. Votes don't count. Why should anyone vote when it's ludicrously irrelevant?
If you tell me I'm wrong, that voting is still somehow relevant? I got the last two presidential elections backing me up. What you got? Hope? Faith? Try history. Try physics. Try mathematics. Try common sense. Until the political system is fixed in this country, please stop voting. Please stop helping them perpetuate this illusion that we actually matter.
Diebold being 'sorta' dead? It's three card monte. It's a shell game. You and me, we're just suckers in all of this. Stop allowing yourself to be suckered.
If you're still voting, you're a part of the problem.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:39 PM on August 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
There are currently 32 countries with compulsory voting.
Although voting in a country may be compulsory, penalties for failing to vote are not always strictly enforced. Sometimes this lack of enforcement is due to insufficient resources, as is the case in Argentina. In Australia and Brazil, providing a legitimate reason for not voting may prevent the levying of a fine. If a non-voter is sanctioned with a fine, the amount is often very small or nominal in the countries. The current fine for not voting in Australia is a mere $20 (maximum $100), with 21 days to pay it. (Because of this small fine, there are some voters that refuse to vote, and merely pay the fine routinely after an election. The fine is not even routinely enforced, as it requires action by the DPP.)posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:34 AM on August 20, 2007
Penalties for failing to vote are not limited to fines and legal sanctions. Belgian voters who repeatedly fail to vote in elections may be subject to disenfranchising. Goods and services provided by public offices may be denied to those failing to vote in Peru and Greece. If a Bolivian voter fails to participate in an election, the citizen may be denied withdrawal of their salary from the bank for three months.
Clearly it is such an outrageous idea that no other country would dare even try such a thing. Thanks, Kirth.
If you're still voting, you're a part of the problem.
Well, at least you aren't getting personal.
posted by geekyguy at 5:09 AM on August 20, 2007
If you're still voting, you're a part of the problem.
Well, at least you aren't getting personal.
posted by geekyguy at 5:09 AM on August 20, 2007
Clearly it is such an outrageous idea that no other country would dare even try such a thing.
No one here has claimed such a thing. I said it was a bad idea, not one so outrageous that no other country would ever try it. Countries try bad things all the time. But it's a nice strawman you've built. If I were to engage in that sort of rhetorical tactic, I might characterize your argument as "Clearly any country which adopts mandatory voting instantly gains peace, wealth, and happiness for all of its citizens." But that would be intellectually dishonest of me, as I know that's not what you're actually claiming.
Nothing in Kirth's quote gives me any cause to believe compulsory voting is a good idea.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:48 AM on August 20, 2007
No one here has claimed such a thing. I said it was a bad idea, not one so outrageous that no other country would ever try it. Countries try bad things all the time. But it's a nice strawman you've built. If I were to engage in that sort of rhetorical tactic, I might characterize your argument as "Clearly any country which adopts mandatory voting instantly gains peace, wealth, and happiness for all of its citizens." But that would be intellectually dishonest of me, as I know that's not what you're actually claiming.
Nothing in Kirth's quote gives me any cause to believe compulsory voting is a good idea.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:48 AM on August 20, 2007
Nor was it meant to. I don't know if cumpulsory voting would be a good thing for the U.S. My quote was in answer to this:
If someone refuses to vote, what are you gonna do? You cart them off to Cuba? Tatoo a red A on their forehead? Refuse to let them join in on your reindeer games? Tell them they can't participate in jury duty? Point them out on the DiamondVision screen at the baseball stadium during the seventh inning stretch and convince the masses to boo at him?
Even if you COULD do what you're suggesting, which you can't,...
Apparently, you can.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:44 PM on August 20, 2007
If someone refuses to vote, what are you gonna do? You cart them off to Cuba? Tatoo a red A on their forehead? Refuse to let them join in on your reindeer games? Tell them they can't participate in jury duty? Point them out on the DiamondVision screen at the baseball stadium during the seventh inning stretch and convince the masses to boo at him?
Even if you COULD do what you're suggesting, which you can't,...
Apparently, you can.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:44 PM on August 20, 2007
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I'm assuming that's the proper iconography for pissing on their grave.
posted by psmealey at 12:00 AM on August 18, 2007