you can gouge away, stay all day, if you want to
October 2, 2007 7:20 AM Subscribe
School libraries are wasting away, unused by children and underfunded by headteachers, according to research which found that pupils borrow on average only one library book a term.
Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2007 [4 favorites]
I'm going contrarian on this. I think one of the main reasons is the internet - and a lot of the internet is reading. Maybe I'm wrong and for those under 18 the internet is primarily youtube, music downloads, and videogaming, but I'm under the impression children are reading more - just not books.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:40 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:40 AM on October 2, 2007
I can't remember ever borrowing a book from a school library. Yeah, I did research for a couple reports in there, I'm sure. Since I graduated college, though, I realized how damn expensive buying books is. I probably have borrowed at least one book a month from public libraries (if not more) for the past 5 years.
posted by Plutor at 7:41 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by Plutor at 7:41 AM on October 2, 2007
Another thing we do in the US is something called "teaching the whole child". So maybe you should supplement your headteachers with some torsoteachers and limbteachers.
posted by DU at 7:46 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by DU at 7:46 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
I was going to say that when I was in gradeschool the borrowing rate probably was not much higher and--I am guessing here--the casual reading rate was probably much lower as people of all ages today read things on the web.
posted by mistersquid at 7:50 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by mistersquid at 7:50 AM on October 2, 2007
My six year old and I just got 31 books from the library (all for him) on saturday. That might last him 2 weeks, though not likely. He loves The Zack Files.
posted by e40 at 7:51 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by e40 at 7:51 AM on October 2, 2007
Yeah, the only thing I did at our high school and middle school library was research, which was required to be done in the library. In the late 90s, there was nothing like Wikipedia, so internet research was not as easy, but at the same time, I don't remember ever having trouble coming up with data online.
What the schools ought to do is get themselves good database subscriptions to things like Lexis/Nexis, (and many others which provide tons of well categorized and search able information)
In fact, thats what a lot of schools do. It wouldn't surprise me if there were databases of digitized books out there. I know Google has one, and it would be great if schools could have access to that.
posted by delmoi at 8:01 AM on October 2, 2007
What the schools ought to do is get themselves good database subscriptions to things like Lexis/Nexis, (and many others which provide tons of well categorized and search able information)
In fact, thats what a lot of schools do. It wouldn't surprise me if there were databases of digitized books out there. I know Google has one, and it would be great if schools could have access to that.
posted by delmoi at 8:01 AM on October 2, 2007
I grew up in libraries and this makes me very, very sad.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:01 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:01 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
dances_with_sneetches, but RU sur theyr reeding proper English?
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:05 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:05 AM on October 2, 2007
I'd second dances_with_sneetches, at least as it applies to research, if I thought it was likely that primary schools have access to the academic databases. I know that pretty much every college and university pays for access to JSTOR and whatnot, but does your local high school? Mine doesn't.
My wife is a high school English teacher, and unfortunately based on her comments its not that the kids are getting their info online, but simply that they aren't getting any info...
Worse, no one seems to be teaching actual research skills. I was drafted into judging the "Multimedia Presentations" section for the jr. High level entries for National History Day at my local museum. "Multimedia Presentations" turned out to mean "really crappy PowerPoint", but the lack of even a faint glimmering of how to conduct research was much more depressing than the horrid PowerPoint.
The teachers apparently had not bothered telling their students the slightest thing about research. With one or two exceptions the entrants had done nothing but type a few keywords into Google, do an image search, and (if we were lucky) read the captions of the images they stole (none were attributed).
This lead, for example, to a student explaining that Rosa Parks was alive in 1860 and had been a slave. Or the kid who, becuase the caption made brief reference to Malcolm X, assumed that he had organized and lead the 1992 LA Riots.
The most astonishing entry was from a couple of kids who appeared to have slapped together their presentation on George W. Bush in about ten minutes. They hadn't bothered to read the captions for the pictures they stole, but that wasn't enough wilful ignorance for them. They hadn't even bothered to read the words on the pictures. Apparently they'd googled for "bush hero" and simply taken the first few pix that appeared, and as a result they had an image of Bush in his flight suit with the words "George W. Bush: BIG FUCKING HERO" stamped in big, boldface, text across it. And, no, that wasn't just a crude bit of sarcasm on their part, their entire presentation was about how fantastic Bush was, so self evidently they hadn't even read the text in their pictures.
It isn't just a lack of reading books, it appears to be a complete failure of the teachers to help the kids understand how to properly exploit the net, or to explain that you've got to read *something* and just looking at the pictures isn't enough.
posted by sotonohito at 8:14 AM on October 2, 2007 [10 favorites]
My wife is a high school English teacher, and unfortunately based on her comments its not that the kids are getting their info online, but simply that they aren't getting any info...
Worse, no one seems to be teaching actual research skills. I was drafted into judging the "Multimedia Presentations" section for the jr. High level entries for National History Day at my local museum. "Multimedia Presentations" turned out to mean "really crappy PowerPoint", but the lack of even a faint glimmering of how to conduct research was much more depressing than the horrid PowerPoint.
The teachers apparently had not bothered telling their students the slightest thing about research. With one or two exceptions the entrants had done nothing but type a few keywords into Google, do an image search, and (if we were lucky) read the captions of the images they stole (none were attributed).
This lead, for example, to a student explaining that Rosa Parks was alive in 1860 and had been a slave. Or the kid who, becuase the caption made brief reference to Malcolm X, assumed that he had organized and lead the 1992 LA Riots.
The most astonishing entry was from a couple of kids who appeared to have slapped together their presentation on George W. Bush in about ten minutes. They hadn't bothered to read the captions for the pictures they stole, but that wasn't enough wilful ignorance for them. They hadn't even bothered to read the words on the pictures. Apparently they'd googled for "bush hero" and simply taken the first few pix that appeared, and as a result they had an image of Bush in his flight suit with the words "George W. Bush: BIG FUCKING HERO" stamped in big, boldface, text across it. And, no, that wasn't just a crude bit of sarcasm on their part, their entire presentation was about how fantastic Bush was, so self evidently they hadn't even read the text in their pictures.
It isn't just a lack of reading books, it appears to be a complete failure of the teachers to help the kids understand how to properly exploit the net, or to explain that you've got to read *something* and just looking at the pictures isn't enough.
posted by sotonohito at 8:14 AM on October 2, 2007 [10 favorites]
Yeah I would have to agree. When I was getting my undergrad all my research was from the web. The only time I used the library was for the textbooks for the courses and if a paper required books as sources. (Nice way to save cash on books you don't plan on keeping them BTW.)
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:19 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:19 AM on October 2, 2007
I think this varies greatly from school to school, which is worrying.
I'm not going to derail, just to say that both my kids are voracious readers. We have been struggling to find books that won't disturb my youngest, because all the books she brings home have scary bits. I've been thinking about it, and really, there aren't any classic stories without 'dark elements'.
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:21 AM on October 2, 2007
I'm not going to derail, just to say that both my kids are voracious readers. We have been struggling to find books that won't disturb my youngest, because all the books she brings home have scary bits. I've been thinking about it, and really, there aren't any classic stories without 'dark elements'.
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:21 AM on October 2, 2007
My nine year-old daughter and I were just talking about this last night. We're going to the public library after school today because she has "nothing left to read." I asked her why she couldn't take some out from the school library and she said that they don't have anything good.
posted by chococat at 8:26 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by chococat at 8:26 AM on October 2, 2007
for god's sake have you seen the shit they keep in school libraries? How many dogeared 30 year old copies of Johnny Tremain can a kid read? I bet they'd boost the reading rate if they put Jordan's new novel "Crystal" in school libraries!
posted by shmegegge at 8:26 AM on October 2, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by shmegegge at 8:26 AM on October 2, 2007 [4 favorites]
In fact, thats what a lot of schools do. It wouldn't surprise me if there were databases of digitized books out there.
Oh there definitely are. Netlibrary is probably one of the biggest. I love digitized books because of the way you can search them for relevant information. There's probably too much information that exists now for checking out books from the library to continue to be feasible much longer for research papers.
There are many places where a few well known works are the bibles of the field and not citing them leaves you looking silly, but with the constantly changing knowledge, theories and techniques, digital information is really the only way to handle that.
While many libraries may be trying to attract people into their physical spaces, most of the libraries I come into contact with have to actively prune the number of people who access their digital spaces.
Budget cuts at Michigan forced them to cut journal access in real life, while leaving it available online. But so many schools have restrictive licensing situations with databases. If those could get opened up more, so much more information could be spread.
And when more books are digitized and available through libraries, and that access is measured and counted, people might realize that folks are using libraries more than ever.
And Sotonohito is right - this access should be expanded to high school libraries.
I think people want the same access to information libraries have provided for what seems like ever, but that needs to be transferred online now, and people need to learn how to use it.
Especially librarians. I had a reference librarian last week who was a novice computer user at best, and when I explained I was looking for resources to study a certain subject, simply put one word into the basic search engine of the library website and was somehow surprised with 6000 results came up.
Like Sotonohito, I participated in a session designed to teach students how to research, and the instruction left a lot to be desired.
But the main thing is, people want access to the latest information. A book from even 1992 on a subject is likely to have lots of outdated information. In our up-to-the-minute society, people need access to the latest information that is coming from a good source. It almost seems like pretty soon, with books taking a year or two after the information is gathered to be printed, they are going to be outdated by the time they are released.
Information is moving quickly. Libraries have to do so as well, and pull their patrons along with them.
posted by sociolibrarian at 8:29 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
Oh there definitely are. Netlibrary is probably one of the biggest. I love digitized books because of the way you can search them for relevant information. There's probably too much information that exists now for checking out books from the library to continue to be feasible much longer for research papers.
There are many places where a few well known works are the bibles of the field and not citing them leaves you looking silly, but with the constantly changing knowledge, theories and techniques, digital information is really the only way to handle that.
While many libraries may be trying to attract people into their physical spaces, most of the libraries I come into contact with have to actively prune the number of people who access their digital spaces.
Budget cuts at Michigan forced them to cut journal access in real life, while leaving it available online. But so many schools have restrictive licensing situations with databases. If those could get opened up more, so much more information could be spread.
And when more books are digitized and available through libraries, and that access is measured and counted, people might realize that folks are using libraries more than ever.
And Sotonohito is right - this access should be expanded to high school libraries.
I think people want the same access to information libraries have provided for what seems like ever, but that needs to be transferred online now, and people need to learn how to use it.
Especially librarians. I had a reference librarian last week who was a novice computer user at best, and when I explained I was looking for resources to study a certain subject, simply put one word into the basic search engine of the library website and was somehow surprised with 6000 results came up.
Like Sotonohito, I participated in a session designed to teach students how to research, and the instruction left a lot to be desired.
But the main thing is, people want access to the latest information. A book from even 1992 on a subject is likely to have lots of outdated information. In our up-to-the-minute society, people need access to the latest information that is coming from a good source. It almost seems like pretty soon, with books taking a year or two after the information is gathered to be printed, they are going to be outdated by the time they are released.
Information is moving quickly. Libraries have to do so as well, and pull their patrons along with them.
posted by sociolibrarian at 8:29 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
I discovered HP Lovecraft in the library of my Catholic high school. Cthulhu f'tagn!
posted by Mister_A at 8:36 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by Mister_A at 8:36 AM on October 2, 2007
I remember the school libraries in my town were all pretty awful growing up, and I doubt they've gotten any better. The only time I used them was when I had a class where they forced us to use it. The town library, and the main library in the city next to the town I lived in were all 1000 times better. I never really saw the point of the school library except to teach you the basics of how to use a proper library. The only thing I ever casually borrowed from the school library in high school was "The Mad World of William M. Gaines" which I recommend to anyone who liked Mad Magazine growing up.
I shudder to think the web is the primary source of information for kids now. There's definitely a lot of information there, but it still should be a stepping off point, not a final destination.
posted by inthe80s at 8:39 AM on October 2, 2007
I shudder to think the web is the primary source of information for kids now. There's definitely a lot of information there, but it still should be a stepping off point, not a final destination.
posted by inthe80s at 8:39 AM on October 2, 2007
It almost seems like pretty soon, with books taking a year or two after the information is gathered to be printed, they are going to be outdated by the time they are released.
This is already the case in science. Hell, one of my profs actually spent a while on the first day of class explaining "the following things in your textbook are now thought to be wrong, please make note of this"
posted by aramaic at 8:40 AM on October 2, 2007
This is already the case in science. Hell, one of my profs actually spent a while on the first day of class explaining "the following things in your textbook are now thought to be wrong, please make note of this"
posted by aramaic at 8:40 AM on October 2, 2007
I know that pretty much every college and university pays for access to JSTOR and whatnot, but does your local high school? Mine doesn't.
You need to look into how much publishers charge for access to online resources. My wife temporarily had the responsibility for her academic dept and was floored by how much it cost. The publishers rob the schools. The only upside is that the greed is so out of control it is unsustainable.
There is zero chance that local libraries could ever afford access.
posted by srboisvert at 8:40 AM on October 2, 2007
You need to look into how much publishers charge for access to online resources. My wife temporarily had the responsibility for her academic dept and was floored by how much it cost. The publishers rob the schools. The only upside is that the greed is so out of control it is unsustainable.
There is zero chance that local libraries could ever afford access.
posted by srboisvert at 8:40 AM on October 2, 2007
I have a son in middle-school and he complains that they aren't given time to use the library during school hours. He catches the bus so he can't easily stay after school to use the library. I don't know how common this is, but I've heard the complaint from other students at other schools as well.
posted by maurice at 8:46 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by maurice at 8:46 AM on October 2, 2007
For people like me, books at the library are never free. I always have to pay a late fine on them, so I'd rather just buy the book or watch porn.
posted by Citizen Premier at 8:47 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by Citizen Premier at 8:47 AM on October 2, 2007
I don't think this is new. When I was growing up -- and this was in a fairly affluent, white, suburban neighborhood -- the school library kinda sucked. Its primary use was as a place with tables where you could sit and do work. I don't think I ever took any books out from there, unless I was really desperate for something to read.
It just made more sense to walk to the "real" library up the street, which had a better selection and let you take books out for longer (IIRC it was like 4 weeks instead of 2 or something). And they would do ILL.
School libraries probably make most sense in elementary schools -- I can remember taking books out from there (when they took the whole class down to use it, anyway; it's not like you have a lot of unstructured time in elementary school) -- since public libraries are aimed, as they should be, at adults and may not have a broad selection of kids' books.
But once you get to middle and high school, why bother trying to duplicate the municipal library inside the schools? As long as we're letting the kids out at 2:30PM (which strikes me as borderline ridiculous; after I left public schools I never got done with school before 4:30), they can haul their asses down to the real library.
Of course, that would require teachers to force their students to do actual research.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:51 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
It just made more sense to walk to the "real" library up the street, which had a better selection and let you take books out for longer (IIRC it was like 4 weeks instead of 2 or something). And they would do ILL.
School libraries probably make most sense in elementary schools -- I can remember taking books out from there (when they took the whole class down to use it, anyway; it's not like you have a lot of unstructured time in elementary school) -- since public libraries are aimed, as they should be, at adults and may not have a broad selection of kids' books.
But once you get to middle and high school, why bother trying to duplicate the municipal library inside the schools? As long as we're letting the kids out at 2:30PM (which strikes me as borderline ridiculous; after I left public schools I never got done with school before 4:30), they can haul their asses down to the real library.
Of course, that would require teachers to force their students to do actual research.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:51 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I used the elementary school library pretty extensively. The middle school one, not at all (it was in a low-income area and it sucked, as did the entire school). High school, a bit. College, a lot (though I never actually checked anything out).
Public libraries hardly at all after school, until my wife, a library assistant, pointed out the library website and how they were almost as current as the local Border's, basically free if you renew on time, and you can renew online extremely easily.
posted by Foosnark at 8:54 AM on October 2, 2007
Public libraries hardly at all after school, until my wife, a library assistant, pointed out the library website and how they were almost as current as the local Border's, basically free if you renew on time, and you can renew online extremely easily.
posted by Foosnark at 8:54 AM on October 2, 2007
You need to look into how much publishers charge for access to online resources. My wife temporarily had the responsibility for her academic dept and was floored by how much it cost. The publishers rob the schools.
I'd love to see more information about this. I use these databases daily and I'd love to see some information shedding light on how much they're charging. I think if the information can get out and widely known, perhaps there could be some pressure applied or somehow otherwise a way to get the prices down so more people can have access to information.
I see students begging all the time for access to articles their libraries don't subscribe to.
How much are they charging? This directly affects the scholarship that is produced.
posted by sociolibrarian at 8:55 AM on October 2, 2007
I'd love to see more information about this. I use these databases daily and I'd love to see some information shedding light on how much they're charging. I think if the information can get out and widely known, perhaps there could be some pressure applied or somehow otherwise a way to get the prices down so more people can have access to information.
I see students begging all the time for access to articles their libraries don't subscribe to.
How much are they charging? This directly affects the scholarship that is produced.
posted by sociolibrarian at 8:55 AM on October 2, 2007
One of the problems I see, at least from observing the school in my area, is that the kids don't have any time to actually use a school library.
When you're in elementary school, your school week probably included an actual scheduled trip down to the school library. Once in middle and high school, though, the trip to the library was no longer part of your routine. You might be able to get a pass from class to go to the library for some related research, but there isn't any actual, active integration of the library into the class routine. And a student definitely has no time between classes to drop into the library. And hitting the library after school is totally dependent on the student's transportation arrangement.
And then there's just the general, overall degrading of anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism in our (US) society. God forbid a kid actually read a book, let alone visit a library in the first place.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:57 AM on October 2, 2007 [3 favorites]
When you're in elementary school, your school week probably included an actual scheduled trip down to the school library. Once in middle and high school, though, the trip to the library was no longer part of your routine. You might be able to get a pass from class to go to the library for some related research, but there isn't any actual, active integration of the library into the class routine. And a student definitely has no time between classes to drop into the library. And hitting the library after school is totally dependent on the student's transportation arrangement.
And then there's just the general, overall degrading of anything even remotely smacking of intellectualism in our (US) society. God forbid a kid actually read a book, let alone visit a library in the first place.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:57 AM on October 2, 2007 [3 favorites]
Add me to the list of people who used the school library for studying, and the public library for borrowing books from. This was back in the dark ages before the rise of the intarwebs and all things digital, so the school library was mostly for looking up things in Vol #247 of the Encyclopedia Whatever. The public library was where you found things you actually wanted to read.
posted by rtha at 8:59 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by rtha at 8:59 AM on October 2, 2007
aramaic In my History of Christianity class the professor did not actually assign any books. All the primary source stuff he wanted us to read was available, free, translated, and online. For history that's probably fairly uncommon, but still, it impressed me.
The big academic databases do charge out the ass. Take JSTOR, for example. They keep their data in 14 collections, a college pays between $10,000 and $45,000 as a one time fee at startup, PER COLLECTION, and then pays between $1,000 and $8,000 PER COLLECTION annually.
A university can afford that, but a High School?
And, of course, JSTOR isn't everything. You need access to more than just it to get much of anything done, and I would guess that access to other databases is comperable in price.
On topic, I'll also side with the folks who say that school libraries mostly suck. I never spent more time in one than I was forced to. I practically grew up in the public libraries around my town though.
posted by sotonohito at 9:12 AM on October 2, 2007
The big academic databases do charge out the ass. Take JSTOR, for example. They keep their data in 14 collections, a college pays between $10,000 and $45,000 as a one time fee at startup, PER COLLECTION, and then pays between $1,000 and $8,000 PER COLLECTION annually.
A university can afford that, but a High School?
And, of course, JSTOR isn't everything. You need access to more than just it to get much of anything done, and I would guess that access to other databases is comperable in price.
On topic, I'll also side with the folks who say that school libraries mostly suck. I never spent more time in one than I was forced to. I practically grew up in the public libraries around my town though.
posted by sotonohito at 9:12 AM on October 2, 2007
My kids bring home and read books from the elementary school library every week.
posted by straight at 9:15 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by straight at 9:15 AM on October 2, 2007
Yeah, our school libraries were terrible, just little quarter-sized classrooms with a few hundred books in them. I did read some books from there, but got far, far more from the town library, which was quite good.
My favorite library was in Marin County, in their Civic Center; it was enormous, full of great stuff. Don't know if it's still there or not. Hope so. It was a great place.
posted by Malor at 9:19 AM on October 2, 2007
My favorite library was in Marin County, in their Civic Center; it was enormous, full of great stuff. Don't know if it's still there or not. Hope so. It was a great place.
posted by Malor at 9:19 AM on October 2, 2007
This is bad news for school librarians but I don't think it really indicates much as far as kids' interest in reading. Those whose don't like to read won't and those who do will get their books from the public library because it has a better selection. I know that was the case with me. Still, if you were allowed to have a "library hour" in high school like they did in elementary school I would be all about that.
posted by Jess the Mess at 9:23 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by Jess the Mess at 9:23 AM on October 2, 2007
I haven't had time yet to read the thread, or even, really the post.
I just wanted to say that a thread about schoo libraries was emphatically not what I expected from a post with this one's title.
posted by sparkletone at 9:35 AM on October 2, 2007
I just wanted to say that a thread about schoo libraries was emphatically not what I expected from a post with this one's title.
posted by sparkletone at 9:35 AM on October 2, 2007
My school library was awful, too. Finding something of interest was like winning the lottery, and I'd bet this is a problem for a lot of schools. Not that kids are chomping at the bit to read, but you can't really look at the state of school libraries and blame it on the times.
posted by katillathehun at 9:37 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by katillathehun at 9:37 AM on October 2, 2007
My favorite library was in Marin County, in their Civic Center; it was enormous, full of great stuff. Don't know if it's still there or not. Hope so. It was a great place.
It's still there - and was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, yet!
posted by rtha at 9:45 AM on October 2, 2007
It's still there - and was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, yet!
posted by rtha at 9:45 AM on October 2, 2007
What chococat's nine-year-old daughter said; my school library was full of donated yardsale remainders, and the 'librarian' was just there to shush. It's unfortunate, but it's just another part of how we're letting kids down - they are not being given the resources, and if they are, they're not being taught how to use them properly.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:50 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:50 AM on October 2, 2007
It's all well and good to talk about how kids can just read online, but the kids most likely to have crappy school libraries (inner city kids, kids in poor small towns, etc) are also the most likely to not have internet access.
posted by drezdn at 9:50 AM on October 2, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 9:50 AM on October 2, 2007 [3 favorites]
I discovered HP Lovecraft in the library of my Catholic high school. Cthulhu f'tagn!
I maintain that I would like myself less if I hadn't discovered Poppy Z. Brite and HPL in my middle-school library.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:51 AM on October 2, 2007
I maintain that I would like myself less if I hadn't discovered Poppy Z. Brite and HPL in my middle-school library.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:51 AM on October 2, 2007
UbuRoivas, haven't you heard?
Childrens do learn. They do!!!
posted by deejay jaydee at 9:54 AM on October 2, 2007
Childrens do learn. They do!!!
posted by deejay jaydee at 9:54 AM on October 2, 2007
It's really the "underprivledged" kids and communities that suffer the most from this. Our kids' school generates something on the order of $50K annually through fundraisers and activities (we mounted "Oliver" in Grades 5 & 6 last year). We get enough board library funding, but seriously, we could raise enough cash ourselves to operate the library if the board didn't do a good job of it.
Unfortunately, not every public school is in the same situation (and it still amazes me that our school raises this much!).
Schools that do nothing to try to improve their libraries... well, that's just sad. I hate to see teachers detoriate into babysitters. It's sad that so many people willingly let their kids grow up to join the ranks of low literacy and, by extension, the underemployed.
posted by GuyZero at 10:15 AM on October 2, 2007
Unfortunately, not every public school is in the same situation (and it still amazes me that our school raises this much!).
Schools that do nothing to try to improve their libraries... well, that's just sad. I hate to see teachers detoriate into babysitters. It's sad that so many people willingly let their kids grow up to join the ranks of low literacy and, by extension, the underemployed.
posted by GuyZero at 10:15 AM on October 2, 2007
> Maybe I'm wrong and for those under 18 the internet is primarily youtube, music downloads, and videogaming
Speaking as a public librarian, these are nigh-on the only things kids use the internet terminals for. There are exceptions, of course, but they are few and far between. And the only time these kids ask for a book is when they've been forced by their teachers to include at least one print resource on their works cited page. And then they want you (i.e. me) to find the book on the shelves, open it, turn to a page with one line about their subject, and point to it for them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:25 AM on October 2, 2007
Speaking as a public librarian, these are nigh-on the only things kids use the internet terminals for. There are exceptions, of course, but they are few and far between. And the only time these kids ask for a book is when they've been forced by their teachers to include at least one print resource on their works cited page. And then they want you (i.e. me) to find the book on the shelves, open it, turn to a page with one line about their subject, and point to it for them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:25 AM on October 2, 2007
How much are they charging? This directly affects the scholarship that is produced.
As a baseline, my company produces many of these online databases (we do the engineering and visual design, not the content). We charge between $150k-300k depending on the size and complexity of the project, and we're not generating obscene profit margins. Of course that's excluding the cost of content development, about which I know nothing.
Since the primary audience is educational libraries and there is a finite number of those and limited growth potential, you can see how a publisher would want to charge a buttload per subscription to quickly recoup the high development cost.
Of course a grand solution for everyone would be to fund smaller school libraries enough that economics of scale can take hold. But library budgets are among the first to go in schools.
posted by nev at 10:35 AM on October 2, 2007
As a baseline, my company produces many of these online databases (we do the engineering and visual design, not the content). We charge between $150k-300k depending on the size and complexity of the project, and we're not generating obscene profit margins. Of course that's excluding the cost of content development, about which I know nothing.
Since the primary audience is educational libraries and there is a finite number of those and limited growth potential, you can see how a publisher would want to charge a buttload per subscription to quickly recoup the high development cost.
Of course a grand solution for everyone would be to fund smaller school libraries enough that economics of scale can take hold. But library budgets are among the first to go in schools.
posted by nev at 10:35 AM on October 2, 2007
But library budgets are among the first to go in schools.
Those last two words aren't really necessary, sadly.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:41 AM on October 2, 2007
Those last two words aren't really necessary, sadly.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:41 AM on October 2, 2007
During a year spent working as a substitute teacher in Chicago, I'd an opportunity to "run the library" for two weeks. Before she left for vacation, the library coordinator showed me how to check out books to students.
"But don't worry about it too much" she said, "none of the kids check anything out".
I soon discovered why. While students were given ample time to use the library, they spent the entirety of that time sitting before a computer. They'd browse through band websites, check their Yahoo! accounts and read up on the latest movie releases.
"Research" for writing assignments amounted to a Google search and a trip to the printer.
Shelves and shelves of brand new books (the school opened its doors only a year before I arrived) were left untouched. The students weren't simply uninterested in books, they had no idea how to use them. They simply didn't have the basic skills necessary to search for a volume and find it on the shelf.
So. I cooked up a library scavenger hunt. Without using a computer, I had students answer a number of obscure (but really cool) questions. For example: What was Kurt Cobain's middle name and where was he born?
Initially upset by my computer ban - no checking email or casual browsing until after school on my watch - they started to come around. For a brief moment, books received some attention.
Prior to this experience, I was of the mind that getting more computers into the hands of students - particularly those in low income and low access areas - was vitally important. I was wrong. Unfettered and unsupervised access to connected computers is, in many ways, actively harmful to literacy and learning.
posted by aladfar at 10:46 AM on October 2, 2007 [10 favorites]
"But don't worry about it too much" she said, "none of the kids check anything out".
I soon discovered why. While students were given ample time to use the library, they spent the entirety of that time sitting before a computer. They'd browse through band websites, check their Yahoo! accounts and read up on the latest movie releases.
"Research" for writing assignments amounted to a Google search and a trip to the printer.
Shelves and shelves of brand new books (the school opened its doors only a year before I arrived) were left untouched. The students weren't simply uninterested in books, they had no idea how to use them. They simply didn't have the basic skills necessary to search for a volume and find it on the shelf.
So. I cooked up a library scavenger hunt. Without using a computer, I had students answer a number of obscure (but really cool) questions. For example: What was Kurt Cobain's middle name and where was he born?
Initially upset by my computer ban - no checking email or casual browsing until after school on my watch - they started to come around. For a brief moment, books received some attention.
Prior to this experience, I was of the mind that getting more computers into the hands of students - particularly those in low income and low access areas - was vitally important. I was wrong. Unfettered and unsupervised access to connected computers is, in many ways, actively harmful to literacy and learning.
posted by aladfar at 10:46 AM on October 2, 2007 [10 favorites]
I remember most of my school libraries being relatively empty when I was growing up. I doubt this is a new phenomenon.
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:47 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:47 AM on October 2, 2007
And then they want you (i.e. me) to find the book on the shelves, open it, turn to a page with one line about their subject, and point to it for them.
Because this is precisely what Google does when they type in information. There are incredible amounts of literature on a given topic and it's pretty inefficient to travel to a library, search for a section, look through all the books in that section to find the few that might have the information you're looking for, and then pore through chapter after chapter in those, compared to someone adept enough to be able to find out in about 5.3 seconds with pretty good probabiity that Kurt Cobain's middle name is Donald, was named after his father, and he was born in Aberdeen, WA.
The key is that we need information professionals to teach kids how to properly use the internet. Librarians for the new age.
posted by sociolibrarian at 11:03 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
Because this is precisely what Google does when they type in information. There are incredible amounts of literature on a given topic and it's pretty inefficient to travel to a library, search for a section, look through all the books in that section to find the few that might have the information you're looking for, and then pore through chapter after chapter in those, compared to someone adept enough to be able to find out in about 5.3 seconds with pretty good probabiity that Kurt Cobain's middle name is Donald, was named after his father, and he was born in Aberdeen, WA.
The key is that we need information professionals to teach kids how to properly use the internet. Librarians for the new age.
posted by sociolibrarian at 11:03 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
Well that, but let's not forget the real usefulness of the library. Learning how to use the internet is one thing, but it doesn't solve the "kids don't read books" problem. And I believe that is a SERIOUS problem.
posted by agregoli at 11:07 AM on October 2, 2007
posted by agregoli at 11:07 AM on October 2, 2007
When I was in elementary school, I checked out -- on average -- 5 or 6 books per week. Space, astronauts, black holes, chemistry 4 kidz, all the cool stuff. My dad actually once got mad at me for "reading all those books when you could be outside playing football!"
In High School, I actually spent my lunch hour in the library most days. That tells you how much of a glorious fucking weirdo I was (and still am!). Stephen King, Issac Asimov, Time, Newsweek, books on political philosophy. That, and so much more, is what I read in High School.
Something troubled me, though. As I began to tear through the library like the voracious bookworm that I was, I began to notice the last "Checked Out/Due By" dates on the inner flaps of these books.
Pebble in the Sky by Issac Asimov: 4/12/71 - 4/26/71
Cry, the Beloved Country by Alan Paton: 2/1/68 - 2/14/68
The Stand by Stephen King: 10/8/87 - 10/22/87
etc., etc., (mind you, this was in 2001)
I wasn't sure at the time what it all meant, but I got the intense feeling that I was reading forbidden knowledge -- arcane information produced by a soon-to-be-forgotten race of ancients. It was a good, but bittersweet feeling, I think.
I wonder if Pebble in the Sky will still be in that library in 2071. I wonder if anyone else will have checked it out by then.
posted by Avenger at 11:14 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
In High School, I actually spent my lunch hour in the library most days. That tells you how much of a glorious fucking weirdo I was (and still am!). Stephen King, Issac Asimov, Time, Newsweek, books on political philosophy. That, and so much more, is what I read in High School.
Something troubled me, though. As I began to tear through the library like the voracious bookworm that I was, I began to notice the last "Checked Out/Due By" dates on the inner flaps of these books.
Pebble in the Sky by Issac Asimov: 4/12/71 - 4/26/71
Cry, the Beloved Country by Alan Paton: 2/1/68 - 2/14/68
The Stand by Stephen King: 10/8/87 - 10/22/87
etc., etc., (mind you, this was in 2001)
I wasn't sure at the time what it all meant, but I got the intense feeling that I was reading forbidden knowledge -- arcane information produced by a soon-to-be-forgotten race of ancients. It was a good, but bittersweet feeling, I think.
I wonder if Pebble in the Sky will still be in that library in 2071. I wonder if anyone else will have checked it out by then.
posted by Avenger at 11:14 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
I know our local elementary school's new (fiction mostly) book budget was a line item in the local public library budget. Recently, our library budget was drastically reduced, and one of the first line items to go, after the Repubs decided that we didn't need a library director, or to stay open 6 days a week, was the school book budget. The logic was that kids could come to the public library if they wanted books.
Because nothing says "we want you to be a reader" like making it difficult for kids to get new books. Because what you really want is 1st graders crossing 6 lane highways to get to books. You want knowledge kid? Play frogger across this highway!
The problem as I see it, at least in our area, is that the wealthy don't see libraries, school or public, as necessities. If they want a book, they'll go to Amazon or B&N, or whatever. It never occurs to them that a voracious reader can run up a $200 book bill pretty easily, and that extra few thousand dollars a year is out of the reach of the vast majority of the worker bees in the culture.
But, as the class divide in the country gets bigger, the worker bees matter less and less to the 3% that have most of the treasure. They couldn't care less if the worker bee kids get educated. Why should they? Less competition for their precious little darlings if the poor kids can't read, have no spark of desire for knowledge, a better life, or attainment of goals.
It's the same logic that has stripped trade classes out of public education, that glorifies sports over academics, that denudes the budget for "gifted" children in favor of teaching to the lowest common denominator.
There's a reason that rich people don't send their kids to public schools. It's because public schools don't have the resources to guarantee success in later life.
Er, sorry, I'll get off the soapbox.
posted by Peecabu at 11:16 AM on October 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
Because nothing says "we want you to be a reader" like making it difficult for kids to get new books. Because what you really want is 1st graders crossing 6 lane highways to get to books. You want knowledge kid? Play frogger across this highway!
The problem as I see it, at least in our area, is that the wealthy don't see libraries, school or public, as necessities. If they want a book, they'll go to Amazon or B&N, or whatever. It never occurs to them that a voracious reader can run up a $200 book bill pretty easily, and that extra few thousand dollars a year is out of the reach of the vast majority of the worker bees in the culture.
But, as the class divide in the country gets bigger, the worker bees matter less and less to the 3% that have most of the treasure. They couldn't care less if the worker bee kids get educated. Why should they? Less competition for their precious little darlings if the poor kids can't read, have no spark of desire for knowledge, a better life, or attainment of goals.
It's the same logic that has stripped trade classes out of public education, that glorifies sports over academics, that denudes the budget for "gifted" children in favor of teaching to the lowest common denominator.
There's a reason that rich people don't send their kids to public schools. It's because public schools don't have the resources to guarantee success in later life.
Er, sorry, I'll get off the soapbox.
posted by Peecabu at 11:16 AM on October 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
There are incredible amounts of literature on a given topic and it's pretty inefficient to travel to a library, search for a section, look through all the books in that section to find the few that might have the information you're looking for, and then pore through chapter after chapter in those, compared to someone adept enough to be able to find out in about 5.3 seconds with pretty good probabiity that Kurt Cobain's middle name is Donald, was named after his father, and he was born in Aberdeen, WA.
Sure, it's easy to just type a query into a search engine and find a little piece of trivia, but by doing all research online, we're losing out on "aha moments," that time when someone flips through pages looking for one thing and discovers an entirely new idea that appeals to them. Some of the world's greatest discoveries have been made by people who had a bunch of books spread out on a table, with notes and other ephemera, and in seeing the information before them, finally made a new connection.
There are times when learning requires sitting down and actually reading, rather than just searching for a single paragraph online.
Then again, I'm probably just a curmudgeon. I would usually check out a backpack full of books when I was in grade school. In high school, my friends and I hung out in the library (and I was a library aid). Some of my favorite memories were wondering the shelves at the school library or the public one and discovering some great book on some topic I hadn't even previously thought of.
Teaching kids how to search better on the computer still won't help nurture literacy in the kids who don't have computers at home.
posted by drezdn at 11:31 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Sure, it's easy to just type a query into a search engine and find a little piece of trivia, but by doing all research online, we're losing out on "aha moments," that time when someone flips through pages looking for one thing and discovers an entirely new idea that appeals to them. Some of the world's greatest discoveries have been made by people who had a bunch of books spread out on a table, with notes and other ephemera, and in seeing the information before them, finally made a new connection.
There are times when learning requires sitting down and actually reading, rather than just searching for a single paragraph online.
Then again, I'm probably just a curmudgeon. I would usually check out a backpack full of books when I was in grade school. In high school, my friends and I hung out in the library (and I was a library aid). Some of my favorite memories were wondering the shelves at the school library or the public one and discovering some great book on some topic I hadn't even previously thought of.
Teaching kids how to search better on the computer still won't help nurture literacy in the kids who don't have computers at home.
posted by drezdn at 11:31 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I am an elementary school librarian in Texas and have a collection of over 11,000 books in my school. Our students check out books on a regular schedule and are more than anxious to read. I work to keep the collection current and buy both curriculum related items AND items they are interested in. I believe a free choice of reading encourages further reading in other subject areas.
I teach about 20-24 curriculum related lessons to grades K-6 each week, not all of them about the dewey decimal system. In fact, most of my lessons tie directly to what the students are studying in class except I teach from a literature point of view. I get a small book budget every year and stretch it to its fullest. I teach research and how to use databases, the internet, and books as resources. My library is far from empty. Maybe this is a problem in upper grades or in certain areas of the country but from what I have experienced the library is stronger than ever.
posted by Sottovoce at 11:32 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I teach about 20-24 curriculum related lessons to grades K-6 each week, not all of them about the dewey decimal system. In fact, most of my lessons tie directly to what the students are studying in class except I teach from a literature point of view. I get a small book budget every year and stretch it to its fullest. I teach research and how to use databases, the internet, and books as resources. My library is far from empty. Maybe this is a problem in upper grades or in certain areas of the country but from what I have experienced the library is stronger than ever.
posted by Sottovoce at 11:32 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Sure, it's easy to just type a query into a search engine and find a little piece of trivia, but by doing all research online, we're losing out on "aha moments," that time when someone flips through pages looking for one thing and discovers an entirely new idea that appeals to them.
I agree completely. I'm curmudgeony just like you and spend my youth all up in libraries like they were my second home. I think I wore out the Encyclopedia Brown series specifically, pulling home books in a lame little wagon we had. There's definitely fun there.
Teaching kids how to search better on the computer still won't help nurture literacy in the kids who don't have computers at home.
That's where they should be headed to the library to learn how to use a computer. Because if you don't have a computer at home, you'd really better be learning to use one at the library, or you're going to be left behind eventually.
posted by sociolibrarian at 11:55 AM on October 2, 2007
I agree completely. I'm curmudgeony just like you and spend my youth all up in libraries like they were my second home. I think I wore out the Encyclopedia Brown series specifically, pulling home books in a lame little wagon we had. There's definitely fun there.
Teaching kids how to search better on the computer still won't help nurture literacy in the kids who don't have computers at home.
That's where they should be headed to the library to learn how to use a computer. Because if you don't have a computer at home, you'd really better be learning to use one at the library, or you're going to be left behind eventually.
posted by sociolibrarian at 11:55 AM on October 2, 2007
Unfettered and unsupervised access to connected computers is, in many ways, actively harmful to literacy and learning.
This is true. Although I am not generally in favor of "censorship," I think that you need to take a look at computers in various places, decide what purpose they're there to serve, and then limit them to performing those functions.
Obviously, if you want kids to be able to do some Internet research -- and you do, because that's a major direction the world is going, obviously -- you can't just turn off all WWW access. But there's no reason why Yahoo Mail / Hotmail / GMail ought to be accessible; the function of that particular machine isn't email.
I think if I was designing a school library, I'd probably set it up so that the majority of the computers were single-purpose machines. E.g., a machine for Encyclopedia Britannica Online, a machine for EBSCOhost, and a machine for Wikipedia, etc., and then a few machines for "general research," right over by the librarian's desk with their screens facing it. At least if you make students move around from one computer to another, you start to plant the idea that research isn't always a passive activity; you can't do it just sitting in front of one terminal all the time. And if you can get them at least moving from one computer to another, maybe then you can get them to look at real books.
However, I think we're getting to the point where it would be more useful to teach students how to use limited-access databases (and spend the money for them) like EBSCO and JSTOR, rather than a lot of paper books, because electronic journals are how real research tends to be done today. To have a really useful paper library you need to spend a lot of money, and dedicate a lot of space; given limited resources, well-thought-out electronic resources are probably more cost effective.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:26 PM on October 2, 2007
This is true. Although I am not generally in favor of "censorship," I think that you need to take a look at computers in various places, decide what purpose they're there to serve, and then limit them to performing those functions.
Obviously, if you want kids to be able to do some Internet research -- and you do, because that's a major direction the world is going, obviously -- you can't just turn off all WWW access. But there's no reason why Yahoo Mail / Hotmail / GMail ought to be accessible; the function of that particular machine isn't email.
I think if I was designing a school library, I'd probably set it up so that the majority of the computers were single-purpose machines. E.g., a machine for Encyclopedia Britannica Online, a machine for EBSCOhost, and a machine for Wikipedia, etc., and then a few machines for "general research," right over by the librarian's desk with their screens facing it. At least if you make students move around from one computer to another, you start to plant the idea that research isn't always a passive activity; you can't do it just sitting in front of one terminal all the time. And if you can get them at least moving from one computer to another, maybe then you can get them to look at real books.
However, I think we're getting to the point where it would be more useful to teach students how to use limited-access databases (and spend the money for them) like EBSCO and JSTOR, rather than a lot of paper books, because electronic journals are how real research tends to be done today. To have a really useful paper library you need to spend a lot of money, and dedicate a lot of space; given limited resources, well-thought-out electronic resources are probably more cost effective.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:26 PM on October 2, 2007
On school libraries: I hardly ever used mine, and I've grown up to be a librarian. Echoing others, it just wasn't very good (or very welcoming), so I went to the public library.
On databases: very, very expensive. Not feasible for an individual school to subscribe to them. Some libraries form consortia to lower the prices. A great example from New Zealand is EPIC, which covers every library in the country and gives access to some EBSCO databases, among others. Although I wouldn't think usage in school libraries is very high.
On online vs print: in plenty of disciplines, print is still important, or even essential. In mine (academic, legal) some of the key texts are available electronically, some only in print. The electronic ones are easier to search, of course, but harder to read for sustained periods. Our print collection is still valuable for the local law firms who can't afford to subscribe to Westlaw in order to read US case law - we've got print copies going back to the 1860s or earlier. And of course our students have to learn to find the print version of cases, because the courts won't yet accept electronic versions as official.
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:50 PM on October 2, 2007
On databases: very, very expensive. Not feasible for an individual school to subscribe to them. Some libraries form consortia to lower the prices. A great example from New Zealand is EPIC, which covers every library in the country and gives access to some EBSCO databases, among others. Although I wouldn't think usage in school libraries is very high.
On online vs print: in plenty of disciplines, print is still important, or even essential. In mine (academic, legal) some of the key texts are available electronically, some only in print. The electronic ones are easier to search, of course, but harder to read for sustained periods. Our print collection is still valuable for the local law firms who can't afford to subscribe to Westlaw in order to read US case law - we've got print copies going back to the 1860s or earlier. And of course our students have to learn to find the print version of cases, because the courts won't yet accept electronic versions as official.
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:50 PM on October 2, 2007
High school librarian here. In the limited time that our district allows us to work (6-hour day), we elementary and high school librarians are 1) learning a new software system for cataloguing and circulation, 2) implementing said new software and moving all our books and patrons into it, 3) troubleshooting said software system, 4) teaching how-to-use-the-library and information relevancy classes, 5) babysitting pretty much for any staff member who has a sub who sends their class to the library who has a lesson plan for the library, 6) babysitting classes who have NO sub and NO lesson plan, 7) purchasing and cataloguing new books, 8) reading books to students, 9) arranging author visits and what was the question again?
posted by Lynsey at 2:30 PM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Lynsey at 2:30 PM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
There is no cure for this. Kids don't want to read anymore. How are you going to get funds for better books when no one ever checks out the books they already have on the shelves?
posted by pracowity at 2:45 PM on October 2, 2007
posted by pracowity at 2:45 PM on October 2, 2007
"the librarian' was just there to shush..."
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:50 AM
"I am an elementary school librarian in Texas..."
posted by Sottovoce at 11:32 AM
Not the whole story, just an observation of serendipty.
posted by Cranberry at 2:45 PM on October 2, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:50 AM
"I am an elementary school librarian in Texas..."
posted by Sottovoce at 11:32 AM
Not the whole story, just an observation of serendipty.
posted by Cranberry at 2:45 PM on October 2, 2007
Back in my school (form 2, for the benefit of Infinite Jest, who may recall such nomenclature) - any graduating classmate would donate a book to the school library with a little note to say who donated it. A good way to increase the size of the library, while seeing that the books were relevant to pupils.
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that the book I donated was the first in the Xanth series. Not that there's anything wrong with that book - but I feel guilty that someone might have followed along into the crass tragedy that is the rest of the series because I started them out. Mea culpa, Karori West Normal School. Mea culpa.
On the plus side, the book had a mild sex scene and was, apparently, quite popular.
posted by Sparx at 2:50 PM on October 2, 2007
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that the book I donated was the first in the Xanth series. Not that there's anything wrong with that book - but I feel guilty that someone might have followed along into the crass tragedy that is the rest of the series because I started them out. Mea culpa, Karori West Normal School. Mea culpa.
On the plus side, the book had a mild sex scene and was, apparently, quite popular.
posted by Sparx at 2:50 PM on October 2, 2007
My school library at a Bronx high school is rather outdated and depleted. I can tell you there's not much money in the budget for new books, computers, or library programs, and a good friend of mine who's been a librarian for many years, does her best, but it's a fight getting any money at all.
Never-the-less, as a teacher, I've found the library a useful resource at times, especially for supporting materials in art, photography, and history (I teach English, and when we read books set in a particular era, like the Civil Rights era, or centered around particular events, like WWII or Vietnam, books from the library provide invaluable visual aids and supporting documentation). The library also stocks a selection of audio books and films, which are useful resources for teachers. And anything that helps teachers helps students.
Plus, the library's a great place to eat lunch.
(For what it's worth, and it's only anecdotal, I realize, I see students grab books from the library, such as it is, all the time; we also have classroom libraries with as many "high interest" books as possible. And with double periods in English, students are allotted time every day in class for independent reading. A lot of my students put me to shame, in fact, finishing two or three books a week. Reading, from my vantage point, is alive and kicking.)
I do envision a day, however, where print material will be nothing but a quaint memory. Electronics are the future. The Library of Congress in your pocket. Won't guarantee students will know what to do with the information, but it'll be there, at the touch of a touchscreen or sound of a voice command (Trekkie, can you tell?). Those teachers in the aforementioned National History Day should have helped the students proofread and edit their work beforehand. Sounds like a rush job, if you ask me. Not to make excuses, but teachers are often given very little lead time, in my experience, to put such events together. Still... yikes.
posted by pips at 5:16 PM on October 2, 2007
Never-the-less, as a teacher, I've found the library a useful resource at times, especially for supporting materials in art, photography, and history (I teach English, and when we read books set in a particular era, like the Civil Rights era, or centered around particular events, like WWII or Vietnam, books from the library provide invaluable visual aids and supporting documentation). The library also stocks a selection of audio books and films, which are useful resources for teachers. And anything that helps teachers helps students.
Plus, the library's a great place to eat lunch.
(For what it's worth, and it's only anecdotal, I realize, I see students grab books from the library, such as it is, all the time; we also have classroom libraries with as many "high interest" books as possible. And with double periods in English, students are allotted time every day in class for independent reading. A lot of my students put me to shame, in fact, finishing two or three books a week. Reading, from my vantage point, is alive and kicking.)
I do envision a day, however, where print material will be nothing but a quaint memory. Electronics are the future. The Library of Congress in your pocket. Won't guarantee students will know what to do with the information, but it'll be there, at the touch of a touchscreen or sound of a voice command (Trekkie, can you tell?). Those teachers in the aforementioned National History Day should have helped the students proofread and edit their work beforehand. Sounds like a rush job, if you ask me. Not to make excuses, but teachers are often given very little lead time, in my experience, to put such events together. Still... yikes.
posted by pips at 5:16 PM on October 2, 2007
I loved my elementary school library as a kid, my kids love theirs and wish they had more time to spend time there. The public library provides a different level of resources, agreed. In my kid's schools some time each week is dedicated to time in the school library. Also, the actual staff of the library has a dramatic effect of how the students view the importance of the library in their education.
The role of the library has changed significantly with the advent of the internet. No doubt about it. "Library as place" (which is based on the academic library) is valid in terms of how technology influences libraries.
Sounds like there is a definite need to teach some decent information literacy skills; as I am sure school librarians are doing (right?). There are ways to improve not only the retrieval of information, but also the relevance of the information when querying search engines. Also, in evaluating quality websites/resources. Having worked in a community college in the past, these skills are badly needed by a vast majority of information seekers.
Still the holding of a book in the hand is a supremely wonderful tactile experience that I compare to listening to vinyl and holding the album in your hands, reading the liner notes and enjoying the artwork, getting up and flipping the record over to side B. It cannot be replaced by digital media.
Nyaa!
Eek, in library school or what?
posted by haunted by Leonard Cohen at 5:34 PM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
The role of the library has changed significantly with the advent of the internet. No doubt about it. "Library as place" (which is based on the academic library) is valid in terms of how technology influences libraries.
Sounds like there is a definite need to teach some decent information literacy skills; as I am sure school librarians are doing (right?). There are ways to improve not only the retrieval of information, but also the relevance of the information when querying search engines. Also, in evaluating quality websites/resources. Having worked in a community college in the past, these skills are badly needed by a vast majority of information seekers.
Still the holding of a book in the hand is a supremely wonderful tactile experience that I compare to listening to vinyl and holding the album in your hands, reading the liner notes and enjoying the artwork, getting up and flipping the record over to side B. It cannot be replaced by digital media.
Nyaa!
Eek, in library school or what?
posted by haunted by Leonard Cohen at 5:34 PM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I never ever used my school libraries if I wasn't forced to. Like many people, I recognized that the school's offerings were paltry compared to what the local branch of the public library had on tap.
I'm also surprised at the people who claim to have eaten lunch in the library. For us, bringing food into the school library was punishable by banhammer-for-life. And since the only time you were actually able to go into the library was during morning breaks and lunch, that meant you had to eat in a big hurry if you even wanted to go to the library, and then there was some weird old librarian to give you the evil eye, and you weren't allowed to talk, and the books were depressingly old and beat-up and the card catalog was on actual CARDS (stone age!!) and there was software on the computers banning any website that a normal kid would actually want to go to, completely making the superfast internet connection (okay, high school only for that one) totally useless...
Seriously, why would anyone go to a school library? Even now I'm thinking about it with annoyance. There was a branch library 2 blocks down the street from my non-schmancy high school that had about ten times as many books in the stacks, and interlibrary loan from the whole of Los Angeles. I guess maybe things are different in smaller cities and towns but in LA it just makes no sense for a high school to maintain a library.
posted by crinklebat at 6:21 PM on October 2, 2007
I'm also surprised at the people who claim to have eaten lunch in the library. For us, bringing food into the school library was punishable by banhammer-for-life. And since the only time you were actually able to go into the library was during morning breaks and lunch, that meant you had to eat in a big hurry if you even wanted to go to the library, and then there was some weird old librarian to give you the evil eye, and you weren't allowed to talk, and the books were depressingly old and beat-up and the card catalog was on actual CARDS (stone age!!) and there was software on the computers banning any website that a normal kid would actually want to go to, completely making the superfast internet connection (okay, high school only for that one) totally useless...
Seriously, why would anyone go to a school library? Even now I'm thinking about it with annoyance. There was a branch library 2 blocks down the street from my non-schmancy high school that had about ten times as many books in the stacks, and interlibrary loan from the whole of Los Angeles. I guess maybe things are different in smaller cities and towns but in LA it just makes no sense for a high school to maintain a library.
posted by crinklebat at 6:21 PM on October 2, 2007
The school where I teach does not have a library. The library we had before Katrina was destroyed, and administration decided that it just wasn't cost-effective to buy a new one. The money would be better used, everyone felt, converting the space into our first computer lab. I'm a saddened by the loss of the library, but the part that breaks my heart is agreeing with the decision. It was a better PR move by far, and it was definitely a better move to prepare our students for their world.
Don't get me wrong, we do a lot of reading. There are plenty of books in every classroom. And it's not the same at all.
posted by honeydew at 6:24 PM on October 2, 2007
Don't get me wrong, we do a lot of reading. There are plenty of books in every classroom. And it's not the same at all.
posted by honeydew at 6:24 PM on October 2, 2007
Seems I recall a recent statistic claiming most adults don't even read a full book a year.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:35 PM on October 2, 2007
posted by five fresh fish at 7:35 PM on October 2, 2007
Many schools are moving toward having smaller libraries in each classroom. This means they get used more. Logistically, there often isn't time in the schedule for children to get to the school library (although actually at the school where I taught last year the kids had library every week and still never took books out).
At my current school the kids have the option of going every day, as soon as they need new books. The school is willing to devote money to buying lots of books for it, it is all arranged by reading level, there is time set aside for indepenent reading daily, etc.
In my vision of the ideal school, the library would be at the center of the school, easily accessible, a place where you would pass through often and could pause to borrow books or just sit and hang out.
I guess this is analogous to the role of the main library, the Regenstein, at my college (University of Chicago). It was the busiest building on campus and people went there to get their work done even if they didn't need books. But it also had seven floors of open stacks, so I often found myself browsing. It is a beautiful place.
posted by mai at 9:06 PM on October 2, 2007
At my current school the kids have the option of going every day, as soon as they need new books. The school is willing to devote money to buying lots of books for it, it is all arranged by reading level, there is time set aside for indepenent reading daily, etc.
In my vision of the ideal school, the library would be at the center of the school, easily accessible, a place where you would pass through often and could pause to borrow books or just sit and hang out.
I guess this is analogous to the role of the main library, the Regenstein, at my college (University of Chicago). It was the busiest building on campus and people went there to get their work done even if they didn't need books. But it also had seven floors of open stacks, so I often found myself browsing. It is a beautiful place.
posted by mai at 9:06 PM on October 2, 2007
At all elementary schools in which I taught (about twenty of 'em), all classes had library time at least once a week, and all students were expected to check out a book. Reading was also encouraged in high school, and perhaps even required to obtain a passing grade in (mandatory) English class.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:05 PM on October 2, 2007
posted by five fresh fish at 10:05 PM on October 2, 2007
Remember George Pal's 1960 film The Time Machine? In October of the year 802,701, while visiting what remains of a museum in the time of the willfully ignorant Eloi (and the mechanically-minded Morlocks), the Time Traveler tries to open a book, but it crumbles to dust in his hands. He resorts to dusty, rarely-used talking rings for information instead.
All thesewords electrons spinning by: do they pause long enough for anyone to really see them?
posted by cenoxo at 12:12 AM on October 3, 2007
All these
posted by cenoxo at 12:12 AM on October 3, 2007
How exactly does having a library help with No Child Left Behind testing?
It doesn't? Gone.
posted by effugas at 7:58 AM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
It doesn't? Gone.
posted by effugas at 7:58 AM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Seems I recall a recent statistic claiming most adults don't even read a full book a year.
The statistic was 27%, and it's even more depressing if you consider that among the 73%, included were people who only read the bible that year.
posted by drezdn at 8:15 AM on October 3, 2007
The statistic was 27%, and it's even more depressing if you consider that among the 73%, included were people who only read the bible that year.
posted by drezdn at 8:15 AM on October 3, 2007
How exactly does having a library help with No Child Left Behind testing?
It doesn't? Gone.
It does if the librarian is doing his job as a teacher. If not, replace him with someone willing to work with the curriculum and the changing needs of learners.
posted by Sottovoce at 9:22 AM on October 3, 2007
It doesn't? Gone.
It does if the librarian is doing his job as a teacher. If not, replace him with someone willing to work with the curriculum and the changing needs of learners.
posted by Sottovoce at 9:22 AM on October 3, 2007
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posted by kuujjuarapik at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2007 [2 favorites]