Never Get Busted Again
October 31, 2007 9:08 AM Subscribe
"We would pull over cars that had college bumper stickers, because we knew college kids often partied with marijuana...we would pull over 'Vietnam Vet' plates, because a lot of our vets developed a habit over there...I would look for Mexicans. I would look for black people. It works." A former Texas narcotics officer is selling a DVD that can teach you how to avoid arrest. (Unless you're black, Mexican, a veteran, or a college kid, presumably.) Youtube. More youtuberance.
The police may not be totally objective in their constabulary duties? I'm shocked - really, just shocked.
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by phrontist at 9:11 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by phrontist at 9:11 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
"I don't know how he justifies having played one side of the fence and putting people in jail, and now playing the other side and helping them avoid it," says Herschel Tebay, commander of the Tarrant County Organized Crime Narcotics Unit in Fort Worth. "I don't know how he lives with himself and looks in the mirror."
Here's a hint, Herschel-- it's called atoning for one's past mistakes.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:13 AM on October 31, 2007
Here's a hint, Herschel-- it's called atoning for one's past mistakes.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:13 AM on October 31, 2007
It works.
Another thing that works is putting a rock on your lawn to keep away tigers. I haven't had a tiger yet!
posted by DU at 9:15 AM on October 31, 2007 [5 favorites]
Another thing that works is putting a rock on your lawn to keep away tigers. I haven't had a tiger yet!
posted by DU at 9:15 AM on October 31, 2007 [5 favorites]
Heard this on NPR this morning. The one thing Herschel Tebay doesn't mention is how the East Texas LEOs justified harrassing Cooper after he arrested politicians and their friends/ family.
It's not even a matter of atoning for his mistakes, it's a matter of -- as Cooper puts it -- sticking it to the man, just like the man wants to stick it to you.
posted by boo_radley at 9:18 AM on October 31, 2007
It's not even a matter of atoning for his mistakes, it's a matter of -- as Cooper puts it -- sticking it to the man, just like the man wants to stick it to you.
posted by boo_radley at 9:18 AM on October 31, 2007
They're worried that if someone uses Cooper's tips on avoiding a raid, a police officer could get hurt.Complete strawman aside; considering what drug swat teams do to families, I'm not really sure that's a bad thing.
posted by notsnot at 9:21 AM on October 31, 2007 [3 favorites]
But what do pot-smoking gubernatorial candidates from Alabama think?
(Hint: she disapproves, Barry fights back.)
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:25 AM on October 31, 2007
(Hint: she disapproves, Barry fights back.)
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:25 AM on October 31, 2007
A police officer could get hurt during a non-raid?
That is beautiful. Seriously.
posted by DU at 9:27 AM on October 31, 2007
That is beautiful. Seriously.
posted by DU at 9:27 AM on October 31, 2007
Complete strawman aside; considering what drug swat teams do to families, I'm not really sure that's a bad thing.
posted by Mr_Zero at 9:30 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by Mr_Zero at 9:30 AM on October 31, 2007
I read somewhere that police were actually less likely to find drugs when they pull over a black motorist then when they pull over a white motorist. Given the profiling that goes on, it makes sense that black drug users would be less likely to have drugs in their car when they drive. I mean how often do you really need to drive with a small amount of weed or drugs on you?
Yet, many (mostly white, this is Iowa here) would drive around with weed on them all the time, like it was no big deal.
White people are also more likely to self report drug use then blacks.
posted by delmoi at 9:45 AM on October 31, 2007
Yet, many (mostly white, this is Iowa here) would drive around with weed on them all the time, like it was no big deal.
White people are also more likely to self report drug use then blacks.
posted by delmoi at 9:45 AM on October 31, 2007
"I used to break into houses at three o'clock in the morning with 10 other men, after throwing a flash grenade through the window," Cooper says. "I would drag Mom and Dad away and send the kids to the department of human services — over a bag of pot — and totally ruin that entire family. I started reaping what I had sown."What a douche bag.
posted by porn in the woods at 9:46 AM on October 31, 2007 [4 favorites]
They're worried that if someone uses Cooper's tips on avoiding a raid, a police officer could get hurt.
Or, innocents people can die.
Documents Reveal: Cops Planted Pot on 92-Year Old Woman They Killed in Botched Drug Raid.
75-Year Old Rev. Accelyne Williams Dies During Drug Raid Wrong House
SWAT State -- "When they kick at your front door, how you gonna come?"
posted by ericb at 9:49 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
Or, innocents people can die.
Documents Reveal: Cops Planted Pot on 92-Year Old Woman They Killed in Botched Drug Raid.
75-Year Old Rev. Accelyne Williams Dies During Drug Raid Wrong House
SWAT State -- "When they kick at your front door, how you gonna come?"
posted by ericb at 9:49 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
This place has 60,000 members. Is anyone here against decriminalizing marijuana possession and use?
For those traveling by car, the video recommends taking their pet cat along, because the K-9 won't stop trying to play with the cat, even if it's taken out of the car.
Starting now, never travel with your cat unless you want the cops to pull you over and search your cat. Spread 'em, Sylvester.
posted by pracowity at 9:59 AM on October 31, 2007
For those traveling by car, the video recommends taking their pet cat along, because the K-9 won't stop trying to play with the cat, even if it's taken out of the car.
Starting now, never travel with your cat unless you want the cops to pull you over and search your cat. Spread 'em, Sylvester.
posted by pracowity at 9:59 AM on October 31, 2007
Why do you think people put "We Support State Police" bumperstickers on their cars?
posted by wfc123 at 10:03 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by wfc123 at 10:03 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
I used to wear pot leaf T-shirts ironically in college. It didn't take me long to learn that cops had difficulty with irony.
I read somewhere that police were actually less likely to find drugs when they pull over a black motorist then when they pull over a white motorist.
Yeah, but are are more than 4x as many white people as there are black people. If you started pulling over whiteys, you'd never have time to beat up on skate punks.
posted by psmealey at 10:03 AM on October 31, 2007
I read somewhere that police were actually less likely to find drugs when they pull over a black motorist then when they pull over a white motorist.
Yeah, but are are more than 4x as many white people as there are black people. If you started pulling over whiteys, you'd never have time to beat up on skate punks.
posted by psmealey at 10:03 AM on October 31, 2007
Overheard a customs officer on the Canadian/USA border saying if she smelled patchouli on any traveler she went over them like a fine tooth comb.
posted by nickyskye at 10:09 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by nickyskye at 10:09 AM on October 31, 2007
I'm all for decriminalizing marijuana possession, as long as it's still possible to shut down nuisance drug and party houses. For one thing, it would slightly ease up on the criminal culture that surrounds pot distribution. For another, half the objection is the other stuff that people do, just like with alcohol. Beer is legal, doesn't mean I want to live next to a bar.
But really, the biggest thing has to be simple common sense. Don't call attention to yourself. If your activity is indistinguishable in any meaningful sense from an upstanding citizen, practically everyone will stand up for you.
posted by dhartung at 10:10 AM on October 31, 2007
But really, the biggest thing has to be simple common sense. Don't call attention to yourself. If your activity is indistinguishable in any meaningful sense from an upstanding citizen, practically everyone will stand up for you.
posted by dhartung at 10:10 AM on October 31, 2007
In other news: LAW ENFORCEMENT DISCOVERS CORRELATION, WONDERS IF CAUSATION IS IMPLIED.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:12 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by blue_beetle at 10:12 AM on October 31, 2007
They're worried that if someone uses Cooper's tips on avoiding a raid, a police officer could get hurt.
So the police are going to get hurt because they haven't raided someone? What is going to hurt? Their feelings?
posted by longbaugh at 10:22 AM on October 31, 2007
So the police are going to get hurt because they haven't raided someone? What is going to hurt? Their feelings?
posted by longbaugh at 10:22 AM on October 31, 2007
This place has 60,000 members. Is anyone here against decriminalizing marijuana possession and use?
I'll bite. I think marijuana should be criminal and mandatory. Everyone who has never smoked up should be forced to and then should be forced to spend a week in jail. Values voters who support "tough-on-crime" politicos get two weeks.
posted by allen.spaulding at 10:22 AM on October 31, 2007 [8 favorites]
I'll bite. I think marijuana should be criminal and mandatory. Everyone who has never smoked up should be forced to and then should be forced to spend a week in jail. Values voters who support "tough-on-crime" politicos get two weeks.
posted by allen.spaulding at 10:22 AM on October 31, 2007 [8 favorites]
Wow, dress and act like a straight and you are much less likely to get busted, I never would have guessed!
See also: be polite to police officers when drunk.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:25 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
See also: be polite to police officers when drunk.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:25 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
Overheard a customs officer on the Canadian/USA border saying if she smelled patchouli on any traveler she went over them like a fine tooth comb.
There's profiling and then there's good policework.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:29 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
There's profiling and then there's good policework.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:29 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
This place has 60,000 members. Is anyone here against decriminalizing marijuana possession and use?
While I'm for a general decriminalization policy, we should not snap our fingers and declare weed safe and legal overnight. Moreover, any decriminalization would come with more, not less, overt restrictions on the desirable, proscribed use cases (e.g. children's issues, restrictions on public use, etc), in much the same way tobacco and alcohol use is proscribed.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:29 AM on October 31, 2007
While I'm for a general decriminalization policy, we should not snap our fingers and declare weed safe and legal overnight. Moreover, any decriminalization would come with more, not less, overt restrictions on the desirable, proscribed use cases (e.g. children's issues, restrictions on public use, etc), in much the same way tobacco and alcohol use is proscribed.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:29 AM on October 31, 2007
Why do you think people put "We Support State Police" bumperstickers on their cars?
I have a "We Support a Police State" sticker on mine.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:34 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
I have a "We Support a Police State" sticker on mine.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:34 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
This was on BoingBoing a few months ago. There was some controversy about it.
posted by designbot at 10:39 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by designbot at 10:39 AM on October 31, 2007
Moreover, any decriminalization would come with more, not less, overt restrictions on the desirable, proscribed use cases (e.g. children's issues, restrictions on public use, etc), in much the same way tobacco and alcohol use is proscribed.
What's wrong with that?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:40 AM on October 31, 2007
What's wrong with that?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:40 AM on October 31, 2007
Cool Papa Bell: Treating MJ like alcohol would be a terrific improvement in our society's handling of the "problem". Make it so.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:48 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:48 AM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'd like to see kids have a harder time procuring pot, frankly. That might be one of the boons of legalization...
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:50 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:50 AM on October 31, 2007
The cat thing might work... Many years ago, driving cross country in a station wagon packed full of junk and two cats... Oklahoma cops pull me over for 5 MPH over the limit, out of state and "car full of stuff". There's some pot and a pipe in the drivers side door thingy. They make me get out, and I roll up the windows because "hey, I'm moving and there are a couple of cats in the car." I sit in the back of a police car for 30 minutes while they run my ID and bring in the K9 unit. I figure I'm f*cked. Dogs come, go around the car a few times, they never ask me to open the doors, an hour later I'm released and back on my way... Those cats got amazing treats for the rest of their lives.
posted by zengargoyle at 10:51 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by zengargoyle at 10:51 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
What's wrong with that?
Nothing. But some people will still jump up and down and holler, "Hands off my herb, maaaaan." ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:53 AM on October 31, 2007
Nothing. But some people will still jump up and down and holler, "Hands off my herb, maaaaan." ;-)
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:53 AM on October 31, 2007
But some people will still jump up and down and holler, "Hands off my herb, maaaaan." ;-)
What are you on about now? If there was a movement to decriminalize and regulate you'd be hard pressed to find anyone involved with the culture, aside from individuals moving weight in the black market, who would find it upsetting in the slightest.
As far as the DVD is concerned, at best it is incredibly far fetched, mainly it is worthless. He's a huckster just like everyone else, trying to make a buck. At least he started his own scam, rather than continued participation in one of the largest, the War on Personal Freedom.
posted by prostyle at 11:35 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
What are you on about now? If there was a movement to decriminalize and regulate you'd be hard pressed to find anyone involved with the culture, aside from individuals moving weight in the black market, who would find it upsetting in the slightest.
As far as the DVD is concerned, at best it is incredibly far fetched, mainly it is worthless. He's a huckster just like everyone else, trying to make a buck. At least he started his own scam, rather than continued participation in one of the largest, the War on Personal Freedom.
posted by prostyle at 11:35 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
Ok, does any metafilter reader support the current policy of arresting marijuana users and dealers and spending several billion a year on it?
posted by Maias at 11:39 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by Maias at 11:39 AM on October 31, 2007
I watched Busted: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters on Google Video some time ago and found it to be both very informative and extremely useful.
I'd definitely recommend buying it, but a quick google video search yields these results.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 11:54 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'd definitely recommend buying it, but a quick google video search yields these results.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 11:54 AM on October 31, 2007 [2 favorites]
If there was a movement to decriminalize and regulate you'd be hard pressed to find anyone involved with the culture ... who would find it upsetting in the slightest.
Take a look at the Netherlands, which has recently been steadily scaling back the cultural acceptance of marijuana and prostitution, and passing various localized laws to limit public use. There's plenty of opposition on the far ends of the political spectrum to any limitation.
There's just not going to be any magic legalization wand here that will make everyone happy, is all I'm saying.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:59 AM on October 31, 2007
Take a look at the Netherlands, which has recently been steadily scaling back the cultural acceptance of marijuana and prostitution, and passing various localized laws to limit public use. There's plenty of opposition on the far ends of the political spectrum to any limitation.
There's just not going to be any magic legalization wand here that will make everyone happy, is all I'm saying.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:59 AM on October 31, 2007
That stuff is funny. Some years ago, I couldn't take my car without manufacturing a spliff while driving and smoke it afterwards...(before I made it to my destination I guess... I was younger). I've been controled by the cops only once while crossing the border between Spain and France. I wasn't driving , only a passenger. I began to give lots of unnecessary information and the police officer (Guardia Civil) told me : "I'm not your father" and let us drive away. I don't know - not sure - but it seems like his reaction was the right one.
posted by nicolin at 11:59 AM on October 31, 2007
posted by nicolin at 11:59 AM on October 31, 2007
There's just ... going to be a... magic... wand here that will make everyone happy, is all I'm saying.
Awesome CPB, it's great to have conversation with you on these terms! Lets burn down a spliff and go ride a unicorn while waving our magic wands that will make everyone happy! Then I can omit another crucial component of a statement you have made in your next reply and we can continue to pretend we're having an actual exchange of ideas! Woooo, fire it up!
...which has recently been steadily scaling back the cultural acceptance of marijuana and prostitution, and passing various localized laws to limit public use.
Yes, well they do have a goal of tidying up their tourist districts. As of late they have had some highly publicized incidents with idiot underage tourists consuming large quantities of alcohol, marijuana and mushrooms and then doing stupid things in a strange place and time in a foreign land while unsupervised. Imagine that!
posted by prostyle at 12:31 PM on October 31, 2007
Awesome CPB, it's great to have conversation with you on these terms! Lets burn down a spliff and go ride a unicorn while waving our magic wands that will make everyone happy! Then I can omit another crucial component of a statement you have made in your next reply and we can continue to pretend we're having an actual exchange of ideas! Woooo, fire it up!
...which has recently been steadily scaling back the cultural acceptance of marijuana and prostitution, and passing various localized laws to limit public use.
Yes, well they do have a goal of tidying up their tourist districts. As of late they have had some highly publicized incidents with idiot underage tourists consuming large quantities of alcohol, marijuana and mushrooms and then doing stupid things in a strange place and time in a foreign land while unsupervised. Imagine that!
posted by prostyle at 12:31 PM on October 31, 2007
Complete strawman aside; considering what drug swat teams do to families, I'm not really sure that's a bad thing.
Puppycide: The Rules
posted by homunculus at 12:56 PM on October 31, 2007
Puppycide: The Rules
posted by homunculus at 12:56 PM on October 31, 2007
Imagine that!
I'm imagining how you could be any more of an asshole.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:15 PM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm imagining how you could be any more of an asshole.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:15 PM on October 31, 2007 [1 favorite]
Not so cool, Cool Papa Bell.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:36 PM on October 31, 2007
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:36 PM on October 31, 2007
Ismael Mena
Botched Paramilitary Police Raids: An Epidemic of "Isolated Incidents"
posted by vsync at 4:19 PM on October 31, 2007
Botched Paramilitary Police Raids: An Epidemic of "Isolated Incidents"
posted by vsync at 4:19 PM on October 31, 2007
There's been some discussion among a certain legalization advocate that Cooper might not be all that he claims to be. I can't search for the blog right now but some of the points brought up concern the fact that Cooper is shipping the DVDs out with a huge 'never get busted' sticker on the outside of the shipping container, not something for people that want to keep a low profile. (Sort of like buying a copy of 2600 from a bookstore with your credit card)
The second point goes to the fact that a lot of the advice that Barry gives is common-sense-only-an-idiot-would-do that-anyway advice, for example not keeping a copy of High Times on your dashboard and rolling papers on your console.
There seems to be some concern that Cooper might still be working for law enforcement and that the video sale might be a foil to collect names and addresses for law enforcement.
In the meantime the advocate recommends pirating the video from bittorrent rather than risk exposing yourself buy purchasing the video online with a credit card.
posted by daHIFI at 11:27 AM on November 1, 2007
The second point goes to the fact that a lot of the advice that Barry gives is common-sense-only-an-idiot-would-do that-anyway advice, for example not keeping a copy of High Times on your dashboard and rolling papers on your console.
There seems to be some concern that Cooper might still be working for law enforcement and that the video sale might be a foil to collect names and addresses for law enforcement.
In the meantime the advocate recommends pirating the video from bittorrent rather than risk exposing yourself buy purchasing the video online with a credit card.
posted by daHIFI at 11:27 AM on November 1, 2007
Seconding everything stated above by daHIFI.
If you must have a copy of Never Get Busted Again, it's readily available on your local BitTorrent tracker. You don't want to give this creep your money.
posted by porn in the woods at 9:17 AM on November 4, 2007
If you must have a copy of Never Get Busted Again, it's readily available on your local BitTorrent tracker. You don't want to give this creep your money.
posted by porn in the woods at 9:17 AM on November 4, 2007
This is in reference to daHIFI's post.
Almost one year ago, the first 250 orders contained the words "Never Get Busted" as the shipping address. This mistake was made by the fulfillment company I hired and was corrected to read "Barry and Candi Promotions."
In reference to Hightimes and rolling papers, I used these to draw a comparison between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" in the SEARCH and SEIZURE chapter of my film. My DVD is packed with information never revealed to the public and is far more than common-sense-only-an-idiot-would-do that-anyway advice.
Regarding your suspicions that I might be a cop. That argument was settled 8 months ago. You are behind the reports a bit. Cops do not testify in U.S. courts as expert witnesses to reveal police using illegal K-9 tactics. I did this 6 months ago and am scheduled to testify in three pending cases. Also, if you are worried I am gathering information from my orders, then go to Barnes & Nobles, Best Buy or Virgin Records and pay cash for a copy of Never Get Busted: Traffic Stops...It just hit the shelves. I'm not a cop. I'm an ex-cop who realized what I was doing is wrong...no different than LEAP members (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.)
I'm a bit concerned who the advocate is that recommends the pirating of my DVD. If you are concerned about my legitimacy, contact Marc Emery, owner of Cannabis Culture Magazine (my wife and I made front cover of the current issue and I write a column for Marc) or PotStar with HighTimes to verify I am a true anti-prohibitionist. Read Jody Emery's review of my DVD here: https://www.nevergetbusted.com/ngbbb/viewtopic.php?t=182
This link also explains the mean spirited motive behind the attacks of my efforts by your advocate, Loretta Nall, who is clearly bias toward me because of personal issues.
I refrain from fighting the pirating or bootlegging of my DVD because I do not want a person to go to jail simply because they could not afford the $20.00 for the hundreds of tips I provide. I appreciate the thousands of people who could afford the $20.00 and I am using their money to continue my efforts. It costs a lot of money to continue producing films that promise to expose police misconduct and teach citizens how to avoid jail.
My next film, NeverGetRaided, is set to be released January 2008 and is certain to disrupt law enforcement's efforts while raising awareness to the unjustified and cruel drug laws...just like my first film!
Regards,
Barry
P.S.
porn in the woods sounds like a cop.
posted by Barry Cooper at 12:31 AM on November 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
Almost one year ago, the first 250 orders contained the words "Never Get Busted" as the shipping address. This mistake was made by the fulfillment company I hired and was corrected to read "Barry and Candi Promotions."
In reference to Hightimes and rolling papers, I used these to draw a comparison between "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" in the SEARCH and SEIZURE chapter of my film. My DVD is packed with information never revealed to the public and is far more than common-sense-only-an-idiot-would-do that-anyway advice.
Regarding your suspicions that I might be a cop. That argument was settled 8 months ago. You are behind the reports a bit. Cops do not testify in U.S. courts as expert witnesses to reveal police using illegal K-9 tactics. I did this 6 months ago and am scheduled to testify in three pending cases. Also, if you are worried I am gathering information from my orders, then go to Barnes & Nobles, Best Buy or Virgin Records and pay cash for a copy of Never Get Busted: Traffic Stops...It just hit the shelves. I'm not a cop. I'm an ex-cop who realized what I was doing is wrong...no different than LEAP members (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.)
I'm a bit concerned who the advocate is that recommends the pirating of my DVD. If you are concerned about my legitimacy, contact Marc Emery, owner of Cannabis Culture Magazine (my wife and I made front cover of the current issue and I write a column for Marc) or PotStar with HighTimes to verify I am a true anti-prohibitionist. Read Jody Emery's review of my DVD here: https://www.nevergetbusted.com/ngbbb/viewtopic.php?t=182
This link also explains the mean spirited motive behind the attacks of my efforts by your advocate, Loretta Nall, who is clearly bias toward me because of personal issues.
I refrain from fighting the pirating or bootlegging of my DVD because I do not want a person to go to jail simply because they could not afford the $20.00 for the hundreds of tips I provide. I appreciate the thousands of people who could afford the $20.00 and I am using their money to continue my efforts. It costs a lot of money to continue producing films that promise to expose police misconduct and teach citizens how to avoid jail.
My next film, NeverGetRaided, is set to be released January 2008 and is certain to disrupt law enforcement's efforts while raising awareness to the unjustified and cruel drug laws...just like my first film!
Regards,
Barry
P.S.
porn in the woods sounds like a cop.
posted by Barry Cooper at 12:31 AM on November 7, 2007 [2 favorites]
Please forgive any grammatical errors, I am sleepy. Goodnight!
posted by Barry Cooper at 12:35 AM on November 7, 2007
posted by Barry Cooper at 12:35 AM on November 7, 2007
porn in the woods sounds like a cop
sounds more like a great American tradition, amirite?
posted by dersins at 12:41 AM on November 7, 2007 [1 favorite]
sounds more like a great American tradition, amirite?
posted by dersins at 12:41 AM on November 7, 2007 [1 favorite]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I just thought it was an interesting story.
posted by dersins at 9:09 AM on October 31, 2007