USA! USA!
November 19, 2007 3:45 PM Subscribe
I thought this was gonna be about me dong...
posted by docpops at 3:49 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by docpops at 3:49 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
That video made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 3:50 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 3:50 PM on November 19, 2007
Sure, but where's the safer "Tazer" version of this that can fire 300 prongs a minute? Our officers need it for crowd control (and practical jokes, of course).
posted by maxwelton at 3:54 PM on November 19, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 3:54 PM on November 19, 2007 [4 favorites]
I picture a commercial for this gun: everyone in America shooting everywhere with this gun, marching down the streets of suburbia just firing the guns willy-nilly, firing holes in everything, loading terrorists into dark pits and then shooting the terrorists with this awesome, awesome gun. Glowing ghosts of those killed by terrorists then fly up from the pits and spell the phrase "THANK YOU" in the sky, as the gun-toting citizens of America fire their guns into the air. Everyone smiles. The din rises to deafening level, and then the sound cuts out. We just see the blackness of night with, above the ground, a rolling, brilliant cloud of gunfire, covering America in gunpowder, powder burn, and soaring bullets.
Then we see a mild-mannered nebbish at an office. He's been daydreaming this. He has no gun. No one has any guns. He's getting yelled at by his boss. He's drifting off in his mind. He looks into a nearby mirror, and in that mirror he sees himself in camouflage paint. He smiles.
He looks back. He now has the camouflage paint on him in real life. He smiles and raises his gun. The boss smiles, too. He raises his gun, too. Smiling, they leave, and now everyone has guns, and they're running out of the office and spilling into the streets. Everyone has a gun, and everyone's so very happy...
Then they could just cut to the logo for the gun and flash a 1-800 number for purchasing information.
Just a thought.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:59 PM on November 19, 2007 [29 favorites]
Then we see a mild-mannered nebbish at an office. He's been daydreaming this. He has no gun. No one has any guns. He's getting yelled at by his boss. He's drifting off in his mind. He looks into a nearby mirror, and in that mirror he sees himself in camouflage paint. He smiles.
He looks back. He now has the camouflage paint on him in real life. He smiles and raises his gun. The boss smiles, too. He raises his gun, too. Smiling, they leave, and now everyone has guns, and they're running out of the office and spilling into the streets. Everyone has a gun, and everyone's so very happy...
Then they could just cut to the logo for the gun and flash a 1-800 number for purchasing information.
Just a thought.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:59 PM on November 19, 2007 [29 favorites]
This is why we can't have nice things/people.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 3:59 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Saucy Intruder at 3:59 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Thats the Blackwater compound being shown on Future Weapons again. Do they flat out own the Future Weapons TV show, or just give the Discovery Channel lots of access in return for what is essentially free advertisisng or what?
posted by Artw at 4:00 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Artw at 4:00 PM on November 19, 2007
I know what a certain Vice President is getting for Christmas!
posted by Reggie Digest at 4:00 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Reggie Digest at 4:00 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
The gun itself is just an update on the street sweeper which has been around for a few years. The real innovation is the Frag-12 grenades, which can be incorporated with it.
And by innovation, I mean something neat from a weapon technology standpoint and depressing from a we-don't-need-more-ways-to-kill-each-other-thanks perspective.
While I like Future Weapons, if the Richard Machowicz continues to try to do the Batman voice, I'm gonna get irritated.
posted by quin at 4:01 PM on November 19, 2007
And by innovation, I mean something neat from a weapon technology standpoint and depressing from a we-don't-need-more-ways-to-kill-each-other-thanks perspective.
While I like Future Weapons, if the Richard Machowicz continues to try to do the Batman voice, I'm gonna get irritated.
posted by quin at 4:01 PM on November 19, 2007
USA internal use only.
posted by Free word order! at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Free word order! at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Noobcannon.
posted by notmydesk at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
posted by notmydesk at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
I really want one of those.
posted by blaneyphoto at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by blaneyphoto at 4:06 PM on November 19, 2007
Infinitewindow should have used a smaller gun.
posted by infinitewindow at 4:11 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by infinitewindow at 4:11 PM on November 19, 2007
An interesting link in the comments on the original article shows it mounted on an unmanned helicopter.
posted by pombe at 4:11 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by pombe at 4:11 PM on November 19, 2007
Yawn. Wake me when they make one in banhammer.
posted by The Bellman at 4:11 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by The Bellman at 4:11 PM on November 19, 2007
God this would be awesome to use on the asshats that speed down my street.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2007
pombe - that was on the show as well, IIRC. I'll check next time the show it on Discovery (or Discovery variant), which seems be once every day or so.
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Artw at 4:14 PM on November 19, 2007
The laws of physics say bullshit "recoil-free." Where's the equal & opposite reaction going?
posted by Camofrog at 4:15 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Camofrog at 4:15 PM on November 19, 2007
My question exactly camofrog. The recoil must be directed outward and sideways or something. Or not. You can see why I'm not a weapons technician.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 4:16 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 4:16 PM on November 19, 2007
While I like Future Weapons, if the Richard Machowicz continues to try to do the Batman voice, I'm gonna get irritated.
You make him sound like a cyborg or something. Which I'm completely willing to accept.
posted by mrnutty at 4:18 PM on November 19, 2007
You make him sound like a cyborg or something. Which I'm completely willing to accept.
posted by mrnutty at 4:18 PM on November 19, 2007
Well, if that isn't an excessive weapon I could only imagine being used on hordes of violent protesters / mobs / zombies, I don't know what is.
(Althou as we know, shotguns and automatic ones at that, aren't the best weapons to deal with zombies. By the time you can get a good head shot, they've already gotten too close).
posted by mrzarquon at 4:18 PM on November 19, 2007
(Althou as we know, shotguns and automatic ones at that, aren't the best weapons to deal with zombies. By the time you can get a good head shot, they've already gotten too close).
posted by mrzarquon at 4:18 PM on November 19, 2007
/me wonders how many other FPPs are tagged with both "death" AND "awesome"
posted by patr1ck at 4:19 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by patr1ck at 4:19 PM on November 19, 2007
Richard Machowicz
I wish my last name was McBadass.
posted by phaedon at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2007
I wish my last name was McBadass.
posted by phaedon at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2007
Camofrog, recoil-free is definitely a misnomer, there will always be some level of recoil, but with gas venting and clever use of springs, it's possible to take a really punishing experience, like rapidly shooting a shotgun, and minimize it to the point that it's no longer a shoulder breaking experience.
So, it's recoil-free in much the same way that stainless-steel won't stain: it's not perfect, but it's better.
posted by quin at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
So, it's recoil-free in much the same way that stainless-steel won't stain: it's not perfect, but it's better.
posted by quin at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
In most gas-operated "recoilless" weapons, some recoil energy (in the form of expanding gases) is vented to the sides and some is used to advance the cylinder, eject the old round and chamber the new round. In other words the recoil energy is redirected into the mechanism that makes the weapon "automatic". At least that is my (very amateur) understanding. I'm sure the MeFi gunsmiths will tell me the 50,000 ways I'm wrong.
posted by The Bellman at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by The Bellman at 4:20 PM on November 19, 2007
Gunfilter?
posted by localroger at 4:23 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by localroger at 4:23 PM on November 19, 2007
Is this an innovation as a weapon or a wall painting device?
posted by jonmc at 4:26 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 4:26 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
New rules: Everyone gets one of these and at the count of three we all just go for it.
posted by thatswherebatslive at 4:27 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by thatswherebatslive at 4:27 PM on November 19, 2007
Is this an innovation as a weapon or a wall painting device?
I guess that depends on what you want to paint your walls with.
posted by phaedon at 4:28 PM on November 19, 2007
I guess that depends on what you want to paint your walls with.
posted by phaedon at 4:28 PM on November 19, 2007
It's incredible how the people creating these rather brilliant works of engineering are also loner, scared, solitary and afraid of people generally and obsessed by sex, unsurprisingly. Usually they see a dime or a dozen of the resale value of their invention, cause it gets stolen by some big gun company..but they get all the blame for being people who were smart, but also so twice stupid at the same time 1) for getting a tiny fraction of their worth 2) for getting money from blood.
I can't phantom what kind of society can allow these people to remain without opportunity, in a cage of fear for a lifetime.
posted by elpapacito at 4:29 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
I can't phantom what kind of society can allow these people to remain without opportunity, in a cage of fear for a lifetime.
posted by elpapacito at 4:29 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Jade Raymond should buy one of thse.
posted by tkchrist at 4:33 PM on November 19, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by tkchrist at 4:33 PM on November 19, 2007 [3 favorites]
We could keep Boyzone open indefinitely with one of these.
posted by phaedon at 4:34 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by phaedon at 4:34 PM on November 19, 2007
Why is he whispering?
posted by puke & cry at 4:34 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by puke & cry at 4:34 PM on November 19, 2007
That shotgun is even more awesome than the shotguns in video games.
posted by Prospero at 4:34 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Prospero at 4:34 PM on November 19, 2007
Does it come in t-shirt for the local AAA baseball club?
posted by kuujjuarapik at 4:36 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by kuujjuarapik at 4:36 PM on November 19, 2007
Finally, a reliable defense against swarming zombies.
ZERG ME NOW BITCH!
posted by klangklangston at 4:37 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
ZERG ME NOW BITCH!
posted by klangklangston at 4:37 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
I have just the platform for that.
Seriously, I can't see civilization lasting more than another couple hundred years. The damage that one crazy/motivated individual can do is just too great.
posted by LordSludge at 4:40 PM on November 19, 2007
Seriously, I can't see civilization lasting more than another couple hundred years. The damage that one crazy/motivated individual can do is just too great.
posted by LordSludge at 4:40 PM on November 19, 2007
Take that Bambi’s mother!
Actually the real problem isn’t so much recoil as heat. Plenty of ways to deal with recoil but the recoil doesn’t really disappear. It’s controlled so you can focus on hitting the target without getting that sudden jolt that throws your aim off. This piece has been around for a while. Not sure if it uses controlled recoil tho. I’d suspect so.
There are light machine guns used to build squads around that use controlled recoil and a bullpup design helps with that. If you have a longer reciever like on a SAW you can use a heavier spring to keep the bolt from pounding the back of the reciever when you shoot. When you pull the trigger on a firearm normally you get a sudden ‘kick’ into your shoulder. If the bolt (and sundry related items) doesn’t hit the rear of the reciever it will hit the extended barrel moving the SAW forward just as the next round is fired. So as the SAW recoils again it has to overcome it’s own forward momentum. So the energy of the recoil is spread out and feels like a steady push instead of a series of jolts. So you can stay on target.
Basically - recoilless in terms of hitting your target and not slamming into your shoulder, not in terms of not delivering energy into your shoulder. The energy is not lost, but about half of the bolt energy goes into fighting the forward momentum of the weapon and the rest is controlled by smoothing the delivery into your shoulder so you can shoot well.
I’m interested tho how they get rid of heat. Close quarter combat weapons often have heat problems because usually you have to expend a lot of ordinance in a short period of time (typically on your way out). There was a caseless autoshotgun that had preloaded cartridges that you’d slip on and off and the heat was contained in the cartidge.
This - I’m stymied. I’ll probably have to go out to Piney Flats and get the lowdown.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:43 PM on November 19, 2007
Actually the real problem isn’t so much recoil as heat. Plenty of ways to deal with recoil but the recoil doesn’t really disappear. It’s controlled so you can focus on hitting the target without getting that sudden jolt that throws your aim off. This piece has been around for a while. Not sure if it uses controlled recoil tho. I’d suspect so.
There are light machine guns used to build squads around that use controlled recoil and a bullpup design helps with that. If you have a longer reciever like on a SAW you can use a heavier spring to keep the bolt from pounding the back of the reciever when you shoot. When you pull the trigger on a firearm normally you get a sudden ‘kick’ into your shoulder. If the bolt (and sundry related items) doesn’t hit the rear of the reciever it will hit the extended barrel moving the SAW forward just as the next round is fired. So as the SAW recoils again it has to overcome it’s own forward momentum. So the energy of the recoil is spread out and feels like a steady push instead of a series of jolts. So you can stay on target.
Basically - recoilless in terms of hitting your target and not slamming into your shoulder, not in terms of not delivering energy into your shoulder. The energy is not lost, but about half of the bolt energy goes into fighting the forward momentum of the weapon and the rest is controlled by smoothing the delivery into your shoulder so you can shoot well.
I’m interested tho how they get rid of heat. Close quarter combat weapons often have heat problems because usually you have to expend a lot of ordinance in a short period of time (typically on your way out). There was a caseless autoshotgun that had preloaded cartridges that you’d slip on and off and the heat was contained in the cartidge.
This - I’m stymied. I’ll probably have to go out to Piney Flats and get the lowdown.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:43 PM on November 19, 2007
Does it come in t-shirt for the local AAA baseball club?
Yup, fires almost 300 t-shirts per minute.
posted by Flashman at 4:44 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
times like these i have to struggle with my inner fascist. don't give up guys! you can beat it!
also check out this totally badass flash intro
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 4:44 PM on November 19, 2007
also check out this totally badass flash intro
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 4:44 PM on November 19, 2007
You can have your 300 rounds-per-minute shotgun. I'm holding out for a million rounds per minute. (It's, uh, Australian.)
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
HOPE IS NOT A COURSE OF ACTION!
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Metal Storm.
A good Aussie invention that would eat this thing for breakfast.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2007
A good Aussie invention that would eat this thing for breakfast.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2007
Seriously, I can't see civilization lasting more than another couple hundred years. The damage that one crazy/motivated individual can do is just too great.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the greatest threat to civilization isn't one crazy/motivated individual, but several billion otherwise sane individuals lacking the motivation to make any sort of change to their lifestyles that might have a positive impact on the direction that things are headed.
Having said that, you wouldn't catch me standing around if I saw someone walking down the street with one of these things.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 4:46 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the greatest threat to civilization isn't one crazy/motivated individual, but several billion otherwise sane individuals lacking the motivation to make any sort of change to their lifestyles that might have a positive impact on the direction that things are headed.
Having said that, you wouldn't catch me standing around if I saw someone walking down the street with one of these things.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 4:46 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Not sure if it uses controlled recoil tho
Yeah, part way into the video they mention that they are dumping it into the assembly.
You make a good point about heat though, this thing must be generating a ton of it. I bet that barrel is hot enough to cook off of after 20 or 30 rounds.
posted by quin at 4:48 PM on November 19, 2007
Yeah, part way into the video they mention that they are dumping it into the assembly.
You make a good point about heat though, this thing must be generating a ton of it. I bet that barrel is hot enough to cook off of after 20 or 30 rounds.
posted by quin at 4:48 PM on November 19, 2007
The irony of the particular TV channel featuring this weapon is that when it has destroyed everything there will be nothing left to discover, nor anyone to do the discovering.
DISCOVER PAIN!
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:48 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
DISCOVER PAIN!
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:48 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Looks like quite alot of fun. Now I want to see a marksman shoot down 300 clay pigeons at once with it.
posted by fenriq at 4:49 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by fenriq at 4:49 PM on November 19, 2007
DAMN YOU, KIRTH!
At least you had the manners to provide a link.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:50 PM on November 19, 2007
At least you had the manners to provide a link.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:50 PM on November 19, 2007
Not like it matters anymore, but where did I hear that the use of shotguns in combat was against some treaty or convention or law of some kind? Was this ever the case? Am I just thinking of nerve gas shotguns or something?
posted by redteam at 4:51 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by redteam at 4:51 PM on November 19, 2007
Sure, but where's the safer "Tazer" version of this that can fire 300 prongs a minute? Our officers need it for crowd control (and practical jokes, of course).
Right here, maxwelton.
posted by duende at 4:55 PM on November 19, 2007
Right here, maxwelton.
posted by duende at 4:55 PM on November 19, 2007
OMG!. ME. WANT. BADLY.
(going to the range would be so freaking awesome if I had one of these)
posted by oddman at 4:57 PM on November 19, 2007
(going to the range would be so freaking awesome if I had one of these)
posted by oddman at 4:57 PM on November 19, 2007
Shotguns have been carried into battle by Americans in all the recent wars (since at least Vietnam), so I don't think there's any convention against them.
Artw, you might want to look at the video in my link. It shows that 'vapourware' making a whole lot of holes in an array of plywood in practically no time.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:59 PM on November 19, 2007
Artw, you might want to look at the video in my link. It shows that 'vapourware' making a whole lot of holes in an array of plywood in practically no time.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:59 PM on November 19, 2007
For anyone who has interest, here is a less superhero intoned, more detailed description of the AA-12 and the scary-ass Frag-12 I mentioned above.
posted by quin at 4:59 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by quin at 4:59 PM on November 19, 2007
Them road signs don't stand a chance!
posted by The Light Fantastic at 5:00 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by The Light Fantastic at 5:00 PM on November 19, 2007
That thing?
Sure, it's cute, but I'll take one of these.
posted by Relay at 5:01 PM on November 19, 2007
Sure, it's cute, but I'll take one of these.
posted by Relay at 5:01 PM on November 19, 2007
No cleaning or lube required.
That's a gay man's fantasy.
T'was a (false) claim an ex-boyfriend once made to me!
posted by ericb at 5:04 PM on November 19, 2007
That's a gay man's fantasy.
T'was a (false) claim an ex-boyfriend once made to me!
posted by ericb at 5:04 PM on November 19, 2007
duende, I shouldn't have joked. Jeebus, how long until the SWAT teams start rolling up with these things?
posted by maxwelton at 5:05 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by maxwelton at 5:05 PM on November 19, 2007
What's up with his voice? That's the closest thing to a bedroom seduction voice I've heard out of a bedroom.
Sometimes an automatic unlubricated shotgun is just an automatic unlubricated shotgun, though, right?
posted by John of Michigan at 5:06 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
Sometimes an automatic unlubricated shotgun is just an automatic unlubricated shotgun, though, right?
posted by John of Michigan at 5:06 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
Why is he whispering?
Because for this guy, every chance to touch a gun is a chance to have a flashback to when he was 15 and cupped his hand over a girl's bra for the first time. "omg they're so soft".
Also, as a card-carrying member of the NRA (warning: satire approaching) I fully support making millions of these shotguns and shipping them en masse to the Iraqi people. Obviously the Iraqi people and our troops will be infinitely safer once they all have these fully-automatic Zombie-hunting rifles.
posted by Avenger at 5:09 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Because for this guy, every chance to touch a gun is a chance to have a flashback to when he was 15 and cupped his hand over a girl's bra for the first time. "omg they're so soft".
Also, as a card-carrying member of the NRA (warning: satire approaching) I fully support making millions of these shotguns and shipping them en masse to the Iraqi people. Obviously the Iraqi people and our troops will be infinitely safer once they all have these fully-automatic Zombie-hunting rifles.
posted by Avenger at 5:09 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Bullet Porn WOOHOO!
"They never know where death might strike them from"nice beret...
At 4:53, pilot cums in pants.
posted by greenskpr at 5:12 PM on November 19, 2007
"They never know where death might strike them from"nice beret...
At 4:53, pilot cums in pants.
posted by greenskpr at 5:12 PM on November 19, 2007
Kirth:
Sawed off Winchester Model 1897 pump guns were used by US doughboys in the Great War. Would clean out a trench. . .
As to recoil-free (not), the video shows recoil from the AA-12, especially in single shot mode. It does look much less, however, than the usual shoulder bruising recoil of a short barrel 12 gauge.
Finally, as to 300 rounds a minute, that is a theoretical cyclical rate of fire. Unless one has a 300 round magazine (or belt feed) that rate will never be achieved in the real world. By way of comparison, the German MG-42 machine gun of WWII had a 1200 rpm cyclical rate of fire.
posted by rdone at 5:16 PM on November 19, 2007
Sawed off Winchester Model 1897 pump guns were used by US doughboys in the Great War. Would clean out a trench. . .
As to recoil-free (not), the video shows recoil from the AA-12, especially in single shot mode. It does look much less, however, than the usual shoulder bruising recoil of a short barrel 12 gauge.
Finally, as to 300 rounds a minute, that is a theoretical cyclical rate of fire. Unless one has a 300 round magazine (or belt feed) that rate will never be achieved in the real world. By way of comparison, the German MG-42 machine gun of WWII had a 1200 rpm cyclical rate of fire.
posted by rdone at 5:16 PM on November 19, 2007
"duende, I shouldn't have joked. Jeebus, how long until the SWAT teams start rolling up with these things?"
Never, the USAS 12 is a an older interpretation of this gun and its a class III destructive device that has essentially been regulated into nonexistence.
posted by 517 at 5:22 PM on November 19, 2007
Never, the USAS 12 is a an older interpretation of this gun and its a class III destructive device that has essentially been regulated into nonexistence.
posted by 517 at 5:22 PM on November 19, 2007
Sure, but where's the safer "Tazer" version of this that can fire 300 prongs a minute? Our officers need it for crowd control (and practical jokes, of course).
posted by maxwelton at 6:54 PM on November 19 [2 favorites +] [!]
Well, this has made the rounds before. I don't know why you couldn't fire them at a cyclical rate of 300rpm through the AA12. Talk about riot control!
posted by krash2fast at 5:38 PM on November 19, 2007
Jesus. This just makes me certain that the US Army believes in peak oil. Where else but some Mad Max lone standoff would this be useful? I can only see this being used in a situation where there are a whole lot of people in front of you and you're okay with them all being dead.
posted by 235w103 at 5:57 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by 235w103 at 5:57 PM on November 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
Sorry, but this gun isn't exactly "recoil free". I am currently recoiling in horror.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:11 PM on November 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:11 PM on November 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
I just want to say that "lead delivery" is one of those delicious euphemisms that Carlin and Vonnegut love.
posted by shmegegge at 6:11 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by shmegegge at 6:11 PM on November 19, 2007
“I can only see this being used in a situation where there are a whole lot of people in front of you and you're okay with them all being dead.”
Fairly accurate description of the shotgunners role in close quarter combat. Also the Mad Max thing not so much. This requires a serious supply chain. (Which I think is one of it’s flaws. But it’s a specialized weapon, so, meh.) You burn off 300 rounds per minute and you’ve got nothing left for lord humungus. You’d want hand loads. And probably that nifty double barrel number he had. Oh, and pig shit. Those compressed gas numbers they developed by Thunderdome make a whole lotta sense.
For “a whole lotta bullets” I like the phalanx Can’t really carry it around tho.
*ding dong*
Who is it?
Plumber, ma’am.
I didn’t call a plumber...
Lead delivery, ma’am.
Brraaaaatttttt!
posted by Smedleyman at 6:21 PM on November 19, 2007
Fairly accurate description of the shotgunners role in close quarter combat. Also the Mad Max thing not so much. This requires a serious supply chain. (Which I think is one of it’s flaws. But it’s a specialized weapon, so, meh.) You burn off 300 rounds per minute and you’ve got nothing left for lord humungus. You’d want hand loads. And probably that nifty double barrel number he had. Oh, and pig shit. Those compressed gas numbers they developed by Thunderdome make a whole lotta sense.
For “a whole lotta bullets” I like the phalanx Can’t really carry it around tho.
*ding dong*
Who is it?
Plumber, ma’am.
I didn’t call a plumber...
Lead delivery, ma’am.
Brraaaaatttttt!
posted by Smedleyman at 6:21 PM on November 19, 2007
More AA12 pron Instructional Videos.
Fixed that for me.
posted by Camofrog at 6:22 PM on November 19, 2007
Fixed that for me.
posted by Camofrog at 6:22 PM on November 19, 2007
More AA12 pron.
Mid-America Recreation Inc. Has ever a company had so fitting a name?
posted by well_balanced at 6:28 PM on November 19, 2007
Mid-America Recreation Inc. Has ever a company had so fitting a name?
posted by well_balanced at 6:28 PM on November 19, 2007
I think we expend more effort towards killing than anything else.
Too bad.
posted by notreally at 6:33 PM on November 19, 2007
Too bad.
posted by notreally at 6:33 PM on November 19, 2007
I saw one of these pups in a gunstore in the 70's .
posted by Iron Rat at 6:34 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Iron Rat at 6:34 PM on November 19, 2007
Yay yay USA. So this should make it really easy to fix that government, right?
posted by pompomtom at 6:37 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by pompomtom at 6:37 PM on November 19, 2007
I think we expend more effort towards killing than anything else.
Too bad.
posted by notreally
hello? ever hear of fucking? sure you have.
posted by Hat Maui at 6:54 PM on November 19, 2007
Too bad.
posted by notreally
hello? ever hear of fucking? sure you have.
posted by Hat Maui at 6:54 PM on November 19, 2007
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Well, I'm the only one here...
posted by katillathehun at 6:55 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by katillathehun at 6:55 PM on November 19, 2007
"... a chance to have a flashback to when he was 15 and cupped his hand over a girl's bra for the first time. "omg they're so soft". "
*Goosebumps*
posted by Scoo at 6:57 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
*Goosebumps*
posted by Scoo at 6:57 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
It takes a rich mo fo aford 300 rounds per minute... or to have that many enimies.
posted by Huplescat at 7:04 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Huplescat at 7:04 PM on November 19, 2007
Alternatively, you could have just one enemy that you really, really dislike.
posted by quin at 7:15 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by quin at 7:15 PM on November 19, 2007
"I think we expend more effort towards killing than anything else."
Well, no shit. Killing is some damn hard work.
posted by oddman at 7:23 PM on November 19, 2007
Well, no shit. Killing is some damn hard work.
posted by oddman at 7:23 PM on November 19, 2007
"I can only see this being used in a situation where there are a whole lot of people in front of you and you're okay with them all being dead."
Ah. GOP convention.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:00 PM on November 19, 2007 [5 favorites]
Ah. GOP convention.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:00 PM on November 19, 2007 [5 favorites]
Just imagine how polite society would be if everyone carried these guys. Do want.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:29 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:29 PM on November 19, 2007
It would sure save time in the Wal-Mart checkout line.
/Don't shop at wal-mart
posted by Balisong at 8:34 PM on November 19, 2007
/Don't shop at wal-mart
posted by Balisong at 8:34 PM on November 19, 2007
I really need one of these to protect myself from the threat of Al Qaeda and to hunt.
People in the US really do get all hard about the things that kill and maim.
posted by cmacleod at 8:38 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
People in the US really do get all hard about the things that kill and maim.
posted by cmacleod at 8:38 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Automatic shotgun? Pshaw. For true street sweeping, nothing short of a grenade machinegun will do.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 8:47 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 8:47 PM on November 19, 2007
In order to not have any recoil, that shotgun must weigh around 20 lbs. Too heavy for hunting, or, if you are in a squad, that's your primary weapon. A whole person used (wasted) on the chance that you might need to clear 15-30 people out of a hallway, or sweep the leaves out of the street.
It's a novelty gun. Sure, the military will waste money buying pallets of them, but their use is really so limited, it's not worth it.
Much like the worldly acclaimed Colt 1911 (still my favorite pistol, even tho I can't hit anything with it)
It was conceived in 1911 by James Browning to be a (fully auto) sidearm. There just isn't that much call for a fully auto 7 round pistol, unless you are clearing a hallway, al-la columbine.
posted by Balisong at 8:49 PM on November 19, 2007
It's a novelty gun. Sure, the military will waste money buying pallets of them, but their use is really so limited, it's not worth it.
Much like the worldly acclaimed Colt 1911 (still my favorite pistol, even tho I can't hit anything with it)
It was conceived in 1911 by James Browning to be a (fully auto) sidearm. There just isn't that much call for a fully auto 7 round pistol, unless you are clearing a hallway, al-la columbine.
posted by Balisong at 8:49 PM on November 19, 2007
Cool, until you start thinking about how much the ammo would cost. But a fun way to blow away a lot of milk jugs (my personal favorite) if you can afford it, no doubt.
Can't really imagine what the military application would be; doesn't seem totally practical, not to mention heavy.
I'm sure it'll be great in FPS games, though.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:01 PM on November 19, 2007
Can't really imagine what the military application would be; doesn't seem totally practical, not to mention heavy.
I'm sure it'll be great in FPS games, though.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:01 PM on November 19, 2007
MetaFilter: I can't phantom what kind of society can allow these people to remain without opportunity, in a cage of fear for a lifetime.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:09 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:09 PM on November 19, 2007
Like the middle-aged white guy in the video says, "Probably the most powerful weapon in the world."
Except for, you know, nuclear bombs.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:10 PM on November 19, 2007
Except for, you know, nuclear bombs.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:10 PM on November 19, 2007
Oh, and "the gun has big, beefy parts."
That's what it's all about.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:14 PM on November 19, 2007
That's what it's all about.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:14 PM on November 19, 2007
You raise a good point about the 1911, Balisong, but consider that we do have full auto-pistols like the Glock 18 and the Beretta 93R today, which demonstrate that few ideas are so weird that they can't find some kind of niche.
Combine this 300rpm device with the Frag-12 grenades I touched on earlier, and you can suddenly see the terrifying military prospects for a device like this. You essentially have a man-portable Mark 19.
posted by quin at 9:17 PM on November 19, 2007
Combine this 300rpm device with the Frag-12 grenades I touched on earlier, and you can suddenly see the terrifying military prospects for a device like this. You essentially have a man-portable Mark 19.
posted by quin at 9:17 PM on November 19, 2007
Hey! I haven't watched the discovery channel in years!
Hey! Gun porn!
I'm never watching the discovery channel again!
posted by Football Bat at 9:50 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Hey! Gun porn!
I'm never watching the discovery channel again!
posted by Football Bat at 9:50 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'd love to own a gun, but, odds are my wife would shoot me with it. Or, worse yet, I'd shoot someone and end up in jail. I'd provide links and stuff but I'm kinda feeling drunk and suicidal.
posted by norm111 at 10:16 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by norm111 at 10:16 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
You can't fire 300 rounds/min with only 20 shells in the thing. 20 rounds in .4 seconds, maybe. But unless you can actually fire 300/minute, that's not a valid rate. Just because I can sprint @ 10mph doesn't mean I can run 87,600,000 miles per millennium.
posted by Eideteker at 11:42 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Eideteker at 11:42 PM on November 19, 2007
So, would something like that count as a Weapon of Mass Destruction?
On a more serious note: I can appreciate the engineering side of this; like a muscle car or an amped-up stereo system there is just a lot of power to admire. The engineering behind something like this is probably cutting-edge... but then I think of the purpose this weapon was built for. It was not designed to shred paper targets on plywood. It was not made to be fired into mounds of sand. It was not created to offer target practice and an adrenaline high on a shooting range. This thing was made to injure, maim, and kill humans.
That's when I get a lot less enthusiastic about it.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 2:18 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
On a more serious note: I can appreciate the engineering side of this; like a muscle car or an amped-up stereo system there is just a lot of power to admire. The engineering behind something like this is probably cutting-edge... but then I think of the purpose this weapon was built for. It was not designed to shred paper targets on plywood. It was not made to be fired into mounds of sand. It was not created to offer target practice and an adrenaline high on a shooting range. This thing was made to injure, maim, and kill humans.
That's when I get a lot less enthusiastic about it.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 2:18 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
It is definitely not recoil-free. Just watching the video will show you that. The shooters are definitely experiencing recoil. Even the announcer on the video calls it "low-recoil," not "recoilless."
Regarding the Geneva Conventions, the Reference Guide to the Geneva Conventions may be of some interest. I don't think any of the various Geneva or Hague Conventions actually outlaw shotguns used in combat, including the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons Which May Be Deemed to Be Excessively Injurious or to Have Indiscriminate Effects, but IANAL.
posted by moonbiter at 3:02 AM on November 20, 2007
Regarding the Geneva Conventions, the Reference Guide to the Geneva Conventions may be of some interest. I don't think any of the various Geneva or Hague Conventions actually outlaw shotguns used in combat, including the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons Which May Be Deemed to Be Excessively Injurious or to Have Indiscriminate Effects, but IANAL.
posted by moonbiter at 3:02 AM on November 20, 2007
It's the Atchisson Assault-12 and it's about 35 years old now. The weapon was the basis of the updated USAS-12, manufactured by Daewoo. Apparently the Daewoo has the recoil of an M-16 (i.e. quite light) and comes with the option of a 28 round drum. Each 2 3/4" '00' shotshell has 8 pellets, each with the approximate energy of a .38 Special round so that is a fair amount of lethality for it's weight. It's not related to the "Streetsweeper" style shotgun - they were clockspring-wound revolver shotguns based on the South African Armsel Striker from the 80's.
It absolutely does have recoil and absolutely does require cleaning as does every firearm. Only an idiot would think that a firearm doesn't need maintenance. It's a tool and a machine and there aren't many that I am aware of that just keep working without care and attention.
Felt-recoil reduction is possible through increased mass, padding, ergonomics, springs, gas-rerouting and other methods - not even recoilless rifles are actually recoilless (ask anyone who's fired the Carl Gustav, the M-67 or the M-40).
posted by longbaugh at 3:07 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
It absolutely does have recoil and absolutely does require cleaning as does every firearm. Only an idiot would think that a firearm doesn't need maintenance. It's a tool and a machine and there aren't many that I am aware of that just keep working without care and attention.
Felt-recoil reduction is possible through increased mass, padding, ergonomics, springs, gas-rerouting and other methods - not even recoilless rifles are actually recoilless (ask anyone who's fired the Carl Gustav, the M-67 or the M-40).
posted by longbaugh at 3:07 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Also - whilst I am being terrifically sad - Smedleyman mentioned the issue of felt-recoil and overheating - the US military is working on that too with something called a rarefaction wave gun (known as the RAVEN gun because dammit if we don't need cool names for guns).
DARPA originally contracted this out for study to be mounted on the FCS (.pdf), either that or an electrothermal cannon. The idea is was to lighten tanks, the RAVEN gun or an ETC cannon would reduce weight of the main armament and allow weight savings elsewhere. Like most things to do with FCS this is about 10-20 years away from being available on the front line so that gives the government at least a decade or so to realise the Pentagon is pulling their chain with all this shit.
I'm not quite sure how this will translate to man-portable arms but it's certainly more likely than either lasers or railgun technology to make the leap.
Overheating in the AA-12, USAS-12 etc is an important issue since they use plastic cased shotgun rounds - overheating in the breech could cause plastic deposits which cause jams and other fun things. The H & K CAWS from the 1980's used all-brass belted shotgun rounds for this reason, the Pancor Jackhammer uses a drum-type rotary magazine to improve heat dissipation.
posted by longbaugh at 3:35 AM on November 20, 2007
DARPA originally contracted this out for study to be mounted on the FCS (.pdf), either that or an electrothermal cannon. The idea is was to lighten tanks, the RAVEN gun or an ETC cannon would reduce weight of the main armament and allow weight savings elsewhere. Like most things to do with FCS this is about 10-20 years away from being available on the front line so that gives the government at least a decade or so to realise the Pentagon is pulling their chain with all this shit.
I'm not quite sure how this will translate to man-portable arms but it's certainly more likely than either lasers or railgun technology to make the leap.
Overheating in the AA-12, USAS-12 etc is an important issue since they use plastic cased shotgun rounds - overheating in the breech could cause plastic deposits which cause jams and other fun things. The H & K CAWS from the 1980's used all-brass belted shotgun rounds for this reason, the Pancor Jackhammer uses a drum-type rotary magazine to improve heat dissipation.
posted by longbaugh at 3:35 AM on November 20, 2007
It wouldn't surprise me if these started showing up in SWAT teams before the US military ever adopts them (outside of some special-operations outfits that have more leeway than the rest of the military in buying their own stuff).
Maybe someday soon there'll be one or two available to shoot at Knob Creek, come to think of it.
The only military scenario I can think of where this wep makes any sense is room-to-room urban combat, where you need a lot of firepower but you don't want machine-gun rounds going through the wall/floor/overhead, through the next wall/floor/overhead, and maybe hitting somebody or something you didn't want to hit who's a couple of walls/floors/overheads away.
posted by pax digita at 4:38 AM on November 20, 2007
Maybe someday soon there'll be one or two available to shoot at Knob Creek, come to think of it.
The only military scenario I can think of where this wep makes any sense is room-to-room urban combat, where you need a lot of firepower but you don't want machine-gun rounds going through the wall/floor/overhead, through the next wall/floor/overhead, and maybe hitting somebody or something you didn't want to hit who's a couple of walls/floors/overheads away.
posted by pax digita at 4:38 AM on November 20, 2007
It wouldn't surprise me if these started showing up in SWAT teams
What better to use during mistaken-address pot busts to ventilate grandma and the family dog.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 5:32 AM on November 20, 2007
What better to use during mistaken-address pot busts to ventilate grandma and the family dog.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 5:32 AM on November 20, 2007
I'd be willing to bet good money on the fact that the gentlemen in the video -- especially the whispering dude -- have some serious insecurity issues about dick size. I mean, really. sometimes a cigar is a just a cigar, but sometimes it isn't, as in this case
posted by matteo at 7:55 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by matteo at 7:55 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Thanks, I love snuff films.
posted by poweredbybeard at 7:59 AM on November 20, 2007
posted by poweredbybeard at 7:59 AM on November 20, 2007
matteo, I know a woman with some experience under her belt (ahem) who suggests that's the reason a lot of guys wear big cowboy hats, big belt buckles, drive big pickup trucks, etc. Would like to see a Psychology Today article on this, or maybe an actual study.
posted by pax digita at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2007
posted by pax digita at 8:18 AM on November 20, 2007
I find it interesting that people who don't like guns are the ones who develop theories that gun fans have small penises.
Perhaps it’s the other way around and people with small penises don't like guns because they make them feel even more inferior?
That makes just as much sense and has the exact same amount of evidence (Zero) to back it up
posted by Megafly at 11:25 AM on November 20, 2007
Perhaps it’s the other way around and people with small penises don't like guns because they make them feel even more inferior?
That makes just as much sense and has the exact same amount of evidence (Zero) to back it up
posted by Megafly at 11:25 AM on November 20, 2007
Or MAYBE, just maybe there's no correlation at all, positive or negative between penis size & gun fandom. I know it would fly in the face of CENTURIES of penis/gun studies, but sometimes it takes a radical outsider to shift the paradigm.
posted by jonson at 11:35 AM on November 20, 2007
posted by jonson at 11:35 AM on November 20, 2007
This thread has taught me that Daewoo also makes insane kill machines, a fact of which I was previously unaware, and for that reason, it has been useful to me. 감사합니다.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:59 PM on November 20, 2007
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:59 PM on November 20, 2007
Funny, for me it was just the opposite. I was really surprised when I saw my first Daewoo car.
Ever since then, I've been hoping against hope that I'll find a Heckler & Koch motorcycle.
posted by quin at 9:29 PM on November 20, 2007
Ever since then, I've been hoping against hope that I'll find a Heckler & Koch motorcycle.
posted by quin at 9:29 PM on November 20, 2007
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posted by mrnutty at 3:47 PM on November 19, 2007