A New Age of Sail?
February 24, 2008 3:55 PM Subscribe
Some time this month, French wine will once again be transported by sail. As the Guardian reports today, French vineyards concerned about climate change are about to make life much easier for oenophiles wishing to reduce their carbon footprint. Later this month, the Belem, a 19th century barque will sail from Languedoc to Dublin with 60,000 bottles of Bordeaux.
In other cargo-sail news, DHL and SkySails recently announced the first commercial shipment to use a towing kite to reduce carbon emissions. Pictures of the MS Beluga Skysails underway can be found here.
Shipping cargo by sail and SkySails previously on AskMe and on the Blue.
In other cargo-sail news, DHL and SkySails recently announced the first commercial shipment to use a towing kite to reduce carbon emissions. Pictures of the MS Beluga Skysails underway can be found here.
Shipping cargo by sail and SkySails previously on AskMe and on the Blue.
...the Belem, a 19th century barque will sail from Languedoc to Dublin with 60,000 bottles of Bordeaux.
Aaaaarrr! And me and me men'll be ready t'meet 'er on the high seas, of that ye can be sure!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:05 PM on February 24, 2008 [11 favorites]
Aaaaarrr! And me and me men'll be ready t'meet 'er on the high seas, of that ye can be sure!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:05 PM on February 24, 2008 [11 favorites]
Wouldn't hydrogen powered ships be pretty practical? I mean throw in some space-shuttle fuel (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) and use the phase change decompression along with the combustion to power the ship as the liquids evaporate on the journey.
Would that be practical?
posted by delmoi at 4:10 PM on February 24, 2008
Would that be practical?
posted by delmoi at 4:10 PM on February 24, 2008
I actually hate drinking wine (unless it's of the flavored fortified variety) but it's incredibly fun to say 'win' in an exaggerated French accent. Wiiiiine!
posted by jonmc at 4:16 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by jonmc at 4:16 PM on February 24, 2008
French vineyards concerned about climate change losing market share to high quality Australian and American Spanish wines are seeking to differentiate themselves through novelty.
Fixed that for you.
posted by Keith Talent at 4:17 PM on February 24, 2008
Fixed that for you.
posted by Keith Talent at 4:17 PM on February 24, 2008
...use the phase change decompression...
I dunno, delmoi, last time I tried that on one of my drum tracks the cymbals disappeared and the toms sounded like handclaps.
Oh, and the kick drum blew my woofers all the way to Okinawa.
So, yeah, actually, it might work!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:17 PM on February 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
I dunno, delmoi, last time I tried that on one of my drum tracks the cymbals disappeared and the toms sounded like handclaps.
Oh, and the kick drum blew my woofers all the way to Okinawa.
So, yeah, actually, it might work!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:17 PM on February 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
In other news, American and Australian wine drinkers concerned about their carbon footprint decide to drink more American and Australian wines, respectively.
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:24 PM on February 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:24 PM on February 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
French vineyards concerned about climate change are about to make life much easier for oenophiles onanists wishing to reduce their carbon footprint.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:24 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:24 PM on February 24, 2008
In other news, Australian wine drinkers concerned about reds that don't resemble watered-down cordial drink more Australian wines.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:26 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:26 PM on February 24, 2008
In other news, Mefites would rather whore for favorites with formulaic snark than risk exposing their frail egos to the Blue by contributing anything of substance.
myself included, of course
posted by [expletive deleted] at 4:34 PM on February 24, 2008 [15 favorites]
myself included, of course
posted by [expletive deleted] at 4:34 PM on February 24, 2008 [15 favorites]
you say that like there's something wrong with it.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:40 PM on February 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:40 PM on February 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
In other news, the barque Belem is pretty cool looking.
posted by barnacles at 4:43 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by barnacles at 4:43 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
I remember listening to an ABC podcast about the last sailing freight ships. They went from Norway to Adelaide through to the 1940s - they were called Windjammers. A great story..
posted by Deconstruct Now! at 4:48 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by Deconstruct Now! at 4:48 PM on February 24, 2008
Ahead of the curve: I work here and do this.
And in other other news?
Here in taste-making Key West, the wines of American, Australian, and Spanish have made room for amazing bottles from Argentina and Chile.
posted by humannaire at 4:58 PM on February 24, 2008
And in other other news?
Here in taste-making Key West, the wines of American, Australian, and Spanish have made room for amazing bottles from Argentina and Chile.
posted by humannaire at 4:58 PM on February 24, 2008
Wouldn't hydrogen powered ships be pretty practical? I mean throw in some space-shuttle fuel (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) and use the phase change decompression along with the combustion to power the ship as the liquids evaporate on the journey.
Hydrogen is not a net-carbon-neutral fuel - it has produced somehow, and the production process takes plenty of energy, usually coming from a coal-fired power plant.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:59 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Hydrogen is not a net-carbon-neutral fuel - it has produced somehow, and the production process takes plenty of energy, usually coming from a coal-fired power plant.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:59 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Here's the actual Windjammers show. It seems the venerable ABC spoke too soon about never seeing ships powered by wind alone again. I hope they send one of these merchant ships out this way; it would make compelling news to have these fine vessels in our waters again.
posted by Deconstruct Now! at 5:03 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by Deconstruct Now! at 5:03 PM on February 24, 2008
I actually hate drinking wine (unless it's of the flavored fortified variety) but it's incredibly fun to say 'win' in an exaggerated French accent. Wiiiiine!
It's more like "vain" but cutting the "n" short.
posted by furtive at 5:11 PM on February 24, 2008
It's more like "vain" but cutting the "n" short.
posted by furtive at 5:11 PM on February 24, 2008
I've always loved the story of the fastest ship ever to carry cargo under sail, the Thermopylae. It made history on it's maiden voyage, making Melbourne from London in 61 days, a record that still stands for any ship under sail. When steamships replaced sail in the tea trade, it was sold to a Canadian, who cut its rig down to a barque, and employed it on the lumber and rice trade, sailing between Rangoon and Vancouver. Even then, with less sail than it was built for and weighed down with timber, it set a new record for crossing the pacific under steam or sail, making Hong Kong from Victoria, BC in 23 days. It was later sold to the Portuguese Navy as a training ship, then a coal barge. Finally, in 1906, it was used as target practice and sunk.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 5:16 PM on February 24, 2008 [10 favorites]
posted by [expletive deleted] at 5:16 PM on February 24, 2008 [10 favorites]
Well, I don't think there are going to be ships powered by wind alone again, honestly, but there might be sailing ships that use wind as their primary mode of long-distance propulsion. Motors are just very practical for maneuvering in port, etc.
What would be very cool would be a new generation of ultra-efficient sail-based freighters, highly automated and with a small crew, possibly with all onboard systems running on solar (or optionally charged from turbines that effectively brake the ship a bit). Is there any R&D being done into this sort of thing? I imagine modern technology applied to sail would make for something a lot faster and more efficient than old sail ships, beautiful as they are.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 5:21 PM on February 24, 2008
What would be very cool would be a new generation of ultra-efficient sail-based freighters, highly automated and with a small crew, possibly with all onboard systems running on solar (or optionally charged from turbines that effectively brake the ship a bit). Is there any R&D being done into this sort of thing? I imagine modern technology applied to sail would make for something a lot faster and more efficient than old sail ships, beautiful as they are.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 5:21 PM on February 24, 2008
would French wine make an acceptable bio fuel?
It's got the taste, surely just lacks proper marketing.
posted by mattoxic at 5:28 PM on February 24, 2008
It's got the taste, surely just lacks proper marketing.
posted by mattoxic at 5:28 PM on February 24, 2008
Proper marketing? How about "now with added anti-freeze"?
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:37 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:37 PM on February 24, 2008
All I ask for is a tall *hic* glass and a star to steer her by...
Seriously though, tall ships are cool, and even a gimmick, this is cool. Would love to go underway with her.
posted by Snyder at 5:41 PM on February 24, 2008
Seriously though, tall ships are cool, and even a gimmick, this is cool. Would love to go underway with her.
posted by Snyder at 5:41 PM on February 24, 2008
would French wine make an acceptable bio fuel?
Actually, due to massive overproduction and slackening demand, a great amount of European wine gets distilled into ethanol and used in part as fuel. Depend on your point of view, either it's a great idea to put wine in your gas tank, or its a crime to not use wine to get tanked.
posted by suckerpunch at 5:48 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Actually, due to massive overproduction and slackening demand, a great amount of European wine gets distilled into ethanol and used in part as fuel. Depend on your point of view, either it's a great idea to put wine in your gas tank, or its a crime to not use wine to get tanked.
posted by suckerpunch at 5:48 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's more like "vain" but cutting the "n" short.
You're so vin, you probably think this thread is about you...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:57 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
You're so vin, you probably think this thread is about you...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:57 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Does this mean the Belem is the new terroir of the high seas?
Or, since this is lovely soft French wine, that the barque will be worse than the bite?
I could go on, but y'all probably start throwin' things.
posted by Zinger at 6:00 PM on February 24, 2008 [5 favorites]
Or, since this is lovely soft French wine, that the barque will be worse than the bite?
I could go on, but y'all probably start throwin' things.
posted by Zinger at 6:00 PM on February 24, 2008 [5 favorites]
Dear France,
Please pack your sailing ships with that delicious Sancerre, what space remains please pack with something from Alsace. I support any kind of sailing ship at all, let alone one filled with some good plonk.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Please pack your sailing ships with that delicious Sancerre, what space remains please pack with something from Alsace. I support any kind of sailing ship at all, let alone one filled with some good plonk.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Finally, in 1906, it was used as target practice and sunk.
posted by [expletive deleted]
eponysterical
I could go on, but y'all probably start throwin' things.
posted by Zinger
and again
posted by Reverend John at 6:20 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by [expletive deleted]
eponysterical
I could go on, but y'all probably start throwin' things.
posted by Zinger
and again
posted by Reverend John at 6:20 PM on February 24, 2008
DW, my man, a six pack of Bud will get you just as drunk. Don't swaet it.
posted by jonmc at 6:29 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by jonmc at 6:29 PM on February 24, 2008
Well, IF the sails don't work (and no one's watching...):
Propulsion and equipment
* Driven by 2 diesel motors: Fiat-Iveco, 300 HP each (installed at the beginning of the '70 by the Cantieri Navali e Officine Meccaniche of Venice), 1500 rpm at full throttle.
* Reducer-inverters : Masson 1/6.
* 2 propeller shafts, 2 four-blade propellers.
* 3 generators.
* Diesel storage : 40 tons.
posted by wallstreet1929 at 6:31 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Propulsion and equipment
* Driven by 2 diesel motors: Fiat-Iveco, 300 HP each (installed at the beginning of the '70 by the Cantieri Navali e Officine Meccaniche of Venice), 1500 rpm at full throttle.
* Reducer-inverters : Masson 1/6.
* 2 propeller shafts, 2 four-blade propellers.
* 3 generators.
* Diesel storage : 40 tons.
posted by wallstreet1929 at 6:31 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Jimbob, I'd have to disagree with you. Even with the cost of trans-Atlantic transport, one can get reasonably priced French wines that are a much better value than Californian wines here on the East Coast. American wine seems to be more expensive than most European wines if you compare vintages of similar quality. Australian wine prices are on the climb as well, but the price of French wine seems relatively stable.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:46 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:46 PM on February 24, 2008
What kind of wine goes with MetaFilter?
"Get off the computer and come to bed already!"
No... wine, not whine.
posted by not_on_display at 7:00 PM on February 24, 2008
"Get off the computer and come to bed already!"
No... wine, not whine.
posted by not_on_display at 7:00 PM on February 24, 2008
DW, my man, a six pack of Bud will get you just as drunk. Don't swaet it.
Jon, I got you all the way to the wall babes, but you don't need to include me in your weird absolutist campaigns, there's room for all kinds of tastes in the world.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:04 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Jon, I got you all the way to the wall babes, but you don't need to include me in your weird absolutist campaigns, there's room for all kinds of tastes in the world.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:04 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
...weird absolutist campaigns...
Wait, we're talking about vodka now? I'm confused.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:16 PM on February 24, 2008
Wait, we're talking about vodka now? I'm confused.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:16 PM on February 24, 2008
San Francisco to New York is about 2,500 miles over land, Paris to New York is about 3,500 over sea. Neither is what you'd call local wines. For that you'd need to be drinking some Finger Lakes and Long Island wines, some of which get some nice reviews.
posted by cali at 7:22 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by cali at 7:22 PM on February 24, 2008
DW, my man, a six pack of Bud will get you just as drunk
(but without the enjoyment)
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:45 PM on February 24, 2008
(but without the enjoyment)
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:45 PM on February 24, 2008
/pedantic/ The ship sets sail from Bordeaux, but the wine itself is from Languedoc
Frederic Albert, founder of the shipping company Compagnie de Transport Maritime à la Voile (CTMV), said: 'My idea was to do something for the planet and something for the wines of Languedoc..."
posted by fellorwaspushed at 7:57 PM on February 24, 2008
Frederic Albert, founder of the shipping company Compagnie de Transport Maritime à la Voile (CTMV), said: 'My idea was to do something for the planet and something for the wines of Languedoc..."
posted by fellorwaspushed at 7:57 PM on February 24, 2008
drunk is drunk, dude.
Yup, drunk is drunk and still you your absolutism is super boring and not befitting the actual quality of your intellect. Oh well.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:03 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
what absolutism? If I liked wine, I'm sure Sancerre tastes great and I was mainly going for laughs. But yeah at the end of the day, whether you're drinking fine cognac or sterno through a rag, you're still getting loaded.
posted by jonmc at 8:08 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 8:08 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Jon, would you rather have a glass of Cognac or suck some fucking sterno through a rag and pass out behind a gas station? You can't see the difference? I love you babes, don't mind me.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Thanks for the catch fellorwaspushed, I got that switched around in my head. It doesn't really make any sense to ship Bordeaux wine to Ireland via the Mediterranean.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:15 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:15 PM on February 24, 2008
Jon, would you rather have a glass of Cognac or suck some fucking sterno through a rag and pass out behind a gas station? You can't see the difference?
Putting aside the obvious hyperbole of the Sterno, is there a difference between say, Courvosier and Colt .45? Sure, but if you don't have one I'll take the other and they'll both do the same job.
posted by jonmc at 8:23 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Putting aside the obvious hyperbole of the Sterno, is there a difference between say, Courvosier and Colt .45? Sure, but if you don't have one I'll take the other and they'll both do the same job.
posted by jonmc at 8:23 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Divine_Wino: "Dear France, Please pack your sailing ships with that delicious Sancerre, what space remains please pack with something from Alsace. I support any kind of sailing ship at all, let alone one filled with some good plonk."
Eponys--oh fuck it all, does anyone really care?
posted by brain_drain at 8:33 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Eponys--oh fuck it all, does anyone really care?
posted by brain_drain at 8:33 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ok Jon, fine.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:47 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:47 PM on February 24, 2008
Wino, you know me better than anybody else here, so you know what I'm getting at. That once you strip away all the bullshit, it's just booze. I'm too old and too tired to pretend otherwise anymore. I only talk about it to amuse myself and maybe find partners in fatalism.
posted by jonmc at 8:54 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by jonmc at 8:54 PM on February 24, 2008
Some of it is tastier booze than the rest.
Also, good beer -> less hangover.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 9:02 PM on February 24, 2008
Also, good beer -> less hangover.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 9:02 PM on February 24, 2008
Withnail: I must have some booze. I demand to have some booze!
[He lunges towards the mantlepiece where there is a bottle of lighter fluid.]
I [standing up]: I wouldn't drink that if I were you.
Withnail: Why not?
I: Because I don't advise it. Even the wankers on the site wouldn't drink that. That's worse than meths.
Withnail: Nonsense, this is a far superior drink to meths. The wankers don't drink it because they can't afford it.
[He pours the contents of the bottle into his upturned mouth.]
Withnail: Ah. Ah. Have you got anymore?
[I shakes his head. Withnail presses forwards and I backs off.]
Withnail: Liar, what's in your toolbox?
I: No we have nothing. Sit down!
Withnail: Liar, you've got antifreeze.
I: You bloody fool. You should never mix your drinks!
[Withnail laughs hysterically, collapses to the floor and emits unpleasant vomitting noises.]
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:23 PM on February 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
[He lunges towards the mantlepiece where there is a bottle of lighter fluid.]
I [standing up]: I wouldn't drink that if I were you.
Withnail: Why not?
I: Because I don't advise it. Even the wankers on the site wouldn't drink that. That's worse than meths.
Withnail: Nonsense, this is a far superior drink to meths. The wankers don't drink it because they can't afford it.
[He pours the contents of the bottle into his upturned mouth.]
Withnail: Ah. Ah. Have you got anymore?
[I shakes his head. Withnail presses forwards and I backs off.]
Withnail: Liar, what's in your toolbox?
I: No we have nothing. Sit down!
Withnail: Liar, you've got antifreeze.
I: You bloody fool. You should never mix your drinks!
[Withnail laughs hysterically, collapses to the floor and emits unpleasant vomitting noises.]
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:23 PM on February 24, 2008 [4 favorites]
FWIW -- MeFi threads evolve best with an unfolding series of comments that start with: "fixed that for you (FTFY);" "in other news," and "for what it's worth" (FWIW). Especially when alcohol is involved.
posted by ericb at 9:26 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 9:26 PM on February 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
I feel like a pig shat in my head.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:33 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:33 PM on February 24, 2008
wallstreet1929:
I'm a little suspicious of that as well. Someone ought to see how much fuel they top off the tanks with every time they put into port; they have more than enough, if Wikipedia's numbers are accurate, to not sail at all.
I guess even if it's clearly a PR stunt, it's still neat (hopefully funding the ship's upkeep somewhat) and might get other companies thinking in the right direction. However I think the environmental edge might go to TESCO for their use of barge canals in the English Midlands for their retro-tech enviro-publicity stunt. Barge shipping is almost ridiculously fuel-efficient compared to trucks; massive container ships are actually fairly fuel-efficient parts of the supply chain.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:35 PM on February 24, 2008
Well, IF the sails don't work (and no one's watching...)
I'm a little suspicious of that as well. Someone ought to see how much fuel they top off the tanks with every time they put into port; they have more than enough, if Wikipedia's numbers are accurate, to not sail at all.
I guess even if it's clearly a PR stunt, it's still neat (hopefully funding the ship's upkeep somewhat) and might get other companies thinking in the right direction. However I think the environmental edge might go to TESCO for their use of barge canals in the English Midlands for their retro-tech enviro-publicity stunt. Barge shipping is almost ridiculously fuel-efficient compared to trucks; massive container ships are actually fairly fuel-efficient parts of the supply chain.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:35 PM on February 24, 2008
I feel like a pig shat in my head.
Hmm... have you been drinking Sterno through a rag?
No? Just fine Cognac, you say? Oh well, I guess it is all the same after all...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:48 PM on February 24, 2008
Hmm... have you been drinking Sterno through a rag?
No? Just fine Cognac, you say? Oh well, I guess it is all the same after all...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:48 PM on February 24, 2008
FWIW -- MeFi threads evolve best with an unfolding series of comments that start with: "fixed that for you (FTFY);" "in other news," and "for what it's worth" (FWIW). Especially when alcohol is involved -- FTFY.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:51 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:51 PM on February 24, 2008
I feel like a pig shat in my head.
Compared with this, I'd think brain-pigshit was a birthday present.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:02 PM on February 24, 2008
Compared with this, I'd think brain-pigshit was a birthday present.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:02 PM on February 24, 2008
Metafilter: We want the finest whines available to humanity, and we want them now!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
We will sell no whine before its time.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:16 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:16 PM on February 24, 2008
English people can't grow wine Australia and America.
posted by Shakeer at 11:29 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by Shakeer at 11:29 PM on February 24, 2008
I'm just happy it's coming to Dublin.
Dylan Moran and Bill Bailey on the subject - It's like looking into the eye of a duck.
posted by tiny crocodile at 1:18 AM on February 25, 2008
Dylan Moran and Bill Bailey on the subject - It's like looking into the eye of a duck.
posted by tiny crocodile at 1:18 AM on February 25, 2008
That's how we get our cocaine so it makes sense that we get our wine the same way.
posted by Elmore at 2:43 AM on February 25, 2008
posted by Elmore at 2:43 AM on February 25, 2008
delmoi: "Wouldn't hydrogen powered ships be pretty practical? I mean throw in some space-shuttle fuel (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) and use the phase change decompression along with the combustion to power the ship as the liquids evaporate on the journey.
Would that be practical?"
No, not really. You wouldn't need to bring oxygen, just the hydrogen -- plenty of oxygen in the air -- but it has several problems. The first is that separating and storing the hydrogen is very energy-intensive, which as someone up there said, may be coming from a coal plant. (in France, it would probably come from nuclear power, which is clean.) Second, it's very explosive, which is a really bad idea in a thin-skinned craft, floating thousands of miles from help. Finally, hydrogen isn't very energy-dense, so a huge fraction of the ship's total cargo space would be used by the hydrogen tanks.
Given that option, I suspect most captains would be happier just to stick with wind power... it'd be slower and less reliable, but you could use almost all of your ship for cargo.
jonmc: "But yeah at the end of the day, whether you're drinking fine cognac or sterno through a rag, you're still getting loaded."
Heh, well, not all of us drink to get drunk. If you're only gonna have a couple, as opposed to getting shitfaced, why not have something good?
posted by Malor at 3:07 AM on February 25, 2008
Would that be practical?"
No, not really. You wouldn't need to bring oxygen, just the hydrogen -- plenty of oxygen in the air -- but it has several problems. The first is that separating and storing the hydrogen is very energy-intensive, which as someone up there said, may be coming from a coal plant. (in France, it would probably come from nuclear power, which is clean.) Second, it's very explosive, which is a really bad idea in a thin-skinned craft, floating thousands of miles from help. Finally, hydrogen isn't very energy-dense, so a huge fraction of the ship's total cargo space would be used by the hydrogen tanks.
Given that option, I suspect most captains would be happier just to stick with wind power... it'd be slower and less reliable, but you could use almost all of your ship for cargo.
jonmc: "But yeah at the end of the day, whether you're drinking fine cognac or sterno through a rag, you're still getting loaded."
Heh, well, not all of us drink to get drunk. If you're only gonna have a couple, as opposed to getting shitfaced, why not have something good?
posted by Malor at 3:07 AM on February 25, 2008
Nuclear is only clean if you assume that the fuel rods grow on trees near the power plant.
They don't, and making them involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere.
posted by Djinh at 4:09 AM on February 25, 2008
They don't, and making them involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere.
posted by Djinh at 4:09 AM on February 25, 2008
Wow, I never thought the Sideways remake starring jonmc and Divine_Wino would be this good.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:30 AM on February 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:30 AM on February 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:52 AM on February 25, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:52 AM on February 25, 2008
Djinh, can you link to a decent analysis that runs the numbers on the C02 footprint of nuclear?
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:59 AM on February 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:59 AM on February 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Djinh: "They don't, and making them involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere."
From what I know, it would be more accurate to say that mining uranium and refining it into fuel rods requires expenditure of energy; our present energy generation methods release a lot of carbon. Were the existing infrastructure nuclear, transmitted by hydrogen, mining and refining new uranium would most likely have a minimal carbon impact.
posted by Malor at 6:21 AM on February 25, 2008
From what I know, it would be more accurate to say that mining uranium and refining it into fuel rods requires expenditure of energy; our present energy generation methods release a lot of carbon. Were the existing infrastructure nuclear, transmitted by hydrogen, mining and refining new uranium would most likely have a minimal carbon impact.
posted by Malor at 6:21 AM on February 25, 2008
Those tow-kites are pretty damned cool (and smart!)
Seems like a relatively inexpensive way to cut fuel costs without adding anything that would be difficult to service, or problematic down the road. Sweet!
posted by mosch at 6:30 AM on February 25, 2008
Seems like a relatively inexpensive way to cut fuel costs without adding anything that would be difficult to service, or problematic down the road. Sweet!
posted by mosch at 6:30 AM on February 25, 2008
Heh, well, not all of us drink to get drunk. If you're only gonna have a couple, as opposed to getting shitfaced, why not have something good?
Macallan 25 makes an incredibly interesting and delicious first drink. The 18 makes a quite enjoyable second. The 12, a perfectly functional third.
posted by mosch at 6:34 AM on February 25, 2008
Macallan 25 makes an incredibly interesting and delicious first drink. The 18 makes a quite enjoyable second. The 12, a perfectly functional third.
posted by mosch at 6:34 AM on February 25, 2008
It's marketing, but if others get on the bandwagon then it could become a good thing. We all have to start thinking about where the stuff we eat and drink come from and how they get to us.
Jon, I really value what you have to say about beer and other booze. If I thought you had some class war bullshit going, I'd have to look at that afresh. I think I know when to tell when you're giving us the good oil, but this thread might give some people the wrong idea about your reliability as a food and drink critic. For my money your gastronomic advice is just as good as your music writing, but now I'm wondering if you favour some food because of its blue collar status rather than the actual taste.
Please tell me I'm wrong.
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:54 AM on February 25, 2008
Jon, I really value what you have to say about beer and other booze. If I thought you had some class war bullshit going, I'd have to look at that afresh. I think I know when to tell when you're giving us the good oil, but this thread might give some people the wrong idea about your reliability as a food and drink critic. For my money your gastronomic advice is just as good as your music writing, but now I'm wondering if you favour some food because of its blue collar status rather than the actual taste.
Please tell me I'm wrong.
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:54 AM on February 25, 2008
No. I'll eat and drink high-end stuff when I have the money or I'm in the mood. But I enjoy drinking Bud and eating potato chips, too. And I really don't like wine. I wish I did, since it'd be another way to get drunk, but I don't. One time I was in a bar and the woman next to me was drinking a glass of red wine and the smell got to me so much that I actually gagged. To tell the truth, I was just goofing around, not sure why anybody got upset. Especially my friend Wino, who knows better than anyone when I'm just fucking around.
posted by jonmc at 7:15 AM on February 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 7:15 AM on February 25, 2008 [1 favorite]
Red wine makes me woozy but verbal; white makes me acid and thirsty, unless it's German, in which case I drink it like it was the blood of my ancestors and get appropriately gemutlich and bellicose; champagne makes me feel pretty, which is a great danger to others; ripple makes my feelings disappear, which is a great danger to myself.
Among beers, I have a great capacity for Guinness, though I'm likely to doze on the train home; high-sugar beers make my head slide around on my neck, while thick porters and stouts fill me up and send me home to gas out before the night is yet young; ricey beers like Bud ruin my evening with allergic reaction (same goes for sake and shochu); I get pretty loaded on most beer: stagger four steps and stop, stand tall, breathe, hiccup, stop, stagger, go!
Rum is for kids and vacations; vodka's my fare to oblivion; sipping brown liquors generally make me feel stately, unless I'm with some fool who thinks shots are the answer, in which case cognay will black me out into violence and terror, whisky will fill the back of a cab with my puke, but Jack Daniel's will have me on a tightrope above Times Square wrestling mountain lions and inventing bawdy lyrics to Stephen Foster hits.
Liqueurs and schnapps are just a bad idea: instant blackout and a dangerous tendency to want to dance on chairs.
I find brown liquor doesn't mix well with pot. Beer is better, and wine the best. A little coffee, then a little verde, then a couple glasses of wine, and I'm ready for the bath or the birthday party alike.
The differences are subtle, but they mean the world to me. Most alcohol makes me feel bad the next day, and I can say that most hangovers feel the same, but the drunk tastes as different as the drink.
When I was a kid, I had blue curtains and a matching bedspread decorated with nautical pictures and terms: ropes tied in sheet bends and bowlines, Robert Fulton's Clermont, the Constitution (being from Baltimore, I always wished it was the Constellation, or maybe the Chesapeake or the Torsk), and the Thermopylae. I read everything I could about her, and was obsessed with her record-setting voyages for at least a few months of my nonage. I knew Thermopylae was a ship long before I knew she was a battle, too.
posted by breezeway at 9:11 AM on February 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
Among beers, I have a great capacity for Guinness, though I'm likely to doze on the train home; high-sugar beers make my head slide around on my neck, while thick porters and stouts fill me up and send me home to gas out before the night is yet young; ricey beers like Bud ruin my evening with allergic reaction (same goes for sake and shochu); I get pretty loaded on most beer: stagger four steps and stop, stand tall, breathe, hiccup, stop, stagger, go!
Rum is for kids and vacations; vodka's my fare to oblivion; sipping brown liquors generally make me feel stately, unless I'm with some fool who thinks shots are the answer, in which case cognay will black me out into violence and terror, whisky will fill the back of a cab with my puke, but Jack Daniel's will have me on a tightrope above Times Square wrestling mountain lions and inventing bawdy lyrics to Stephen Foster hits.
Liqueurs and schnapps are just a bad idea: instant blackout and a dangerous tendency to want to dance on chairs.
I find brown liquor doesn't mix well with pot. Beer is better, and wine the best. A little coffee, then a little verde, then a couple glasses of wine, and I'm ready for the bath or the birthday party alike.
The differences are subtle, but they mean the world to me. Most alcohol makes me feel bad the next day, and I can say that most hangovers feel the same, but the drunk tastes as different as the drink.
When I was a kid, I had blue curtains and a matching bedspread decorated with nautical pictures and terms: ropes tied in sheet bends and bowlines, Robert Fulton's Clermont, the Constitution (being from Baltimore, I always wished it was the Constellation, or maybe the Chesapeake or the Torsk), and the Thermopylae. I read everything I could about her, and was obsessed with her record-setting voyages for at least a few months of my nonage. I knew Thermopylae was a ship long before I knew she was a battle, too.
posted by breezeway at 9:11 AM on February 25, 2008 [2 favorites]
There's an interesting article in the current (okay, current for North Carolina) New Yorker about carbon footprints. It turns out that even if a conventional ship was bringing French wine to New York, it would be using less carbon than trucks: Sea-freight emissions are less than a sixtieth of those associated with airplanes, and you don’t have to build highways to berth a ship. Last year, a study of the carbon cost of the global wine trade found that it is actually more “green” for New Yorkers to drink wine from Bordeaux, which is shipped by sea, than wine from California, sent by truck. That is largely because shipping wine is mostly shipping glass. The study found that “the efficiencies of shipping drive a ‘green line’ all the way to Columbus, Ohio, the point where a wine from Bordeaux and Napa has the same carbon intensity.” So go ahead and down the French plonk with a clear conscience.
Also, sailing ships = awesome. The more stuff we ship via sail, the better - not just ecologically but OMG aesthetically and, of course, for the sheer, pure coolness factor.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:04 AM on February 25, 2008
Also, sailing ships = awesome. The more stuff we ship via sail, the better - not just ecologically but OMG aesthetically and, of course, for the sheer, pure coolness factor.
posted by mygothlaundry at 10:04 AM on February 25, 2008
This has to be the most fun thread of any of my FPPs. I'm going to have to post more boozy things on the blue. Divine_Wino and jonmc, you two are definitely invited to the next party. I'll bring Roquefort and Lays, and you two can bring Chateau Cheval Blanc and sterno respectively.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:26 AM on February 25, 2008
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:26 AM on February 25, 2008
Djinh: It's only "huge" when you're not looking at it from a worldwide energy generation point of view. The amount of coal that has to be mined and the amount of CO2 not just from the mining but also from the burning is absolutely staggering in comparison. Even if we were 100% nuclear the CO2 would be relatively tiny. Sure it's a concern, and nuclear's not at all perfect, but let's keep things in perspective.
posted by cecilkorik at 10:55 AM on February 25, 2008
posted by cecilkorik at 10:55 AM on February 25, 2008
> Aaaaarrr! And me and me men'll be ready t'meet 'er on the high seas, of that ye can be sure!
Bets on how much of the swag makes it back to port? (dibs on "none")
> The more stuff we ship via sail, the better - not just ecologically but OMG aesthetically and,
> of course, for the sheer, pure coolness factor.
N.b., this includes shipping east-coasters west over flyover country (and vice versa) by prairie schooner. Only takes five or so months and they get to know the back ends of their draft critters really well. New perspectives!
posted by jfuller at 10:56 AM on February 25, 2008
Bets on how much of the swag makes it back to port? (dibs on "none")
> The more stuff we ship via sail, the better - not just ecologically but OMG aesthetically and,
> of course, for the sheer, pure coolness factor.
N.b., this includes shipping east-coasters west over flyover country (and vice versa) by prairie schooner. Only takes five or so months and they get to know the back ends of their draft critters really well. New perspectives!
posted by jfuller at 10:56 AM on February 25, 2008
It turns out that the Oscar's bring out the argumentative Bastard in me. If I was on the hooch at the moment I'd raise a glass of Listerine and Laphroaig to my auld pal jon.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:09 PM on February 25, 2008
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:09 PM on February 25, 2008
Bets on how much of the swag makes it back to port? (dibs on "none")
Yeah, you'd be three sheets to the wind in no time.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:26 PM on February 25, 2008
Yeah, you'd be three sheets to the wind in no time.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:26 PM on February 25, 2008
Ubu, ye land lubber ye! Why, me and me men could put away all 60,000 a'those bottles a'fancy French grog and still be standin' to take on any bilge rats foolish enough to cross our path! Arrr!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:48 PM on February 25, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:48 PM on February 25, 2008
Hm, you could be right:
The famous mariner’s beverage, grog (a blend of sugar-water, lime juice and rum), was carried by both navymen and sailors to prevent scurvy. Navy men received grog as their daily rum ration, while pirates drank it as they pleased. Aboard a pirate vessel there was no specific time set aside for hooching; they drank whenever the urge took hold.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:54 PM on February 25, 2008
The famous mariner’s beverage, grog (a blend of sugar-water, lime juice and rum), was carried by both navymen and sailors to prevent scurvy. Navy men received grog as their daily rum ration, while pirates drank it as they pleased. Aboard a pirate vessel there was no specific time set aside for hooching; they drank whenever the urge took hold.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:54 PM on February 25, 2008
Well a'course I'm right, lubber! And you can bet your mainsail we damn sure drink as we please! Arrrr!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:25 PM on February 25, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:25 PM on February 25, 2008
And I'm a'feelin' the urge take hold right about now! Me'n me brother jonmc'll be downin' plenty a'sterno tonight, to be sure!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:28 PM on February 25, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:28 PM on February 25, 2008
You can have the mainsail if you like.
Just keep your hands off these, or you'll have the hero of Trafalgar to answer to!
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:35 PM on February 25, 2008
Just keep your hands off these, or you'll have the hero of Trafalgar to answer to!
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:35 PM on February 25, 2008
How exciting! I'm always looking for new and different ways to pay more for luxury goods.
posted by electroboy at 10:26 AM on February 26, 2008
posted by electroboy at 10:26 AM on February 26, 2008
at the risk of de-railing this wine soaked thred, there are many experiments going on with wind-powered ships.
i'll site some examples when i finish this Merlot.
posted by lemuel at 9:19 PM on February 26, 2008
i'll site some examples when i finish this Merlot.
posted by lemuel at 9:19 PM on February 26, 2008
Hey lemuel, pour me a glass of that, would ya?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:49 AM on February 27, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:49 AM on February 27, 2008
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
climate changelosing market share to high quality Australian and American wines are seeking to differentiate themselves through novelty.Fixed that for you.
posted by Jimbob at 4:03 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]