"235 clean pairs of underwear to gate 35, please."
March 3, 2008 7:30 AM Subscribe
They don't come any closer than this. This Airbus 320 came as close to grief as you probably can, striking the wing and damaging it severely on the runway during a stormy, gusty crosswind landing at the Hamburg, Germany airport. Only luck and the skill of the pilots saved the day. Watch at about 45 seconds as the aircraft leaves the runway completely, and then recovers.
Why didn't they wave him off when he was coming in sideways?
posted by DU at 7:38 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by DU at 7:38 AM on March 3, 2008
DU, crosswind landings are fairly normal. This one just got out of hand, probably from a strong gust of wind.
Not that I'd be comfortable landing in that much of a crosswind. ;)
posted by wierdo at 7:40 AM on March 3, 2008
Not that I'd be comfortable landing in that much of a crosswind. ;)
posted by wierdo at 7:40 AM on March 3, 2008
Are the wheels on pivots so they can swivel to the real velocity vector?
posted by DU at 7:41 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by DU at 7:41 AM on March 3, 2008
Why didn't they wave him off when he was coming in sideways?
That's how you do it in heavy crosswind. I don't think it's possible to land 'straight' if there is a strong crosswind.
posted by delmoi at 7:42 AM on March 3, 2008
That's how you do it in heavy crosswind. I don't think it's possible to land 'straight' if there is a strong crosswind.
posted by delmoi at 7:42 AM on March 3, 2008
My instructor used to tell me that "all landings are crosswind landings. Some are just more cross than others." This god out of hand at a particularly bad time, getting hit with about a 60 knot gust just as he 'decrabbed' the plane to touch down.
posted by pjern at 7:43 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by pjern at 7:43 AM on March 3, 2008
Wow.
And I'm pretty sure in the audio he says "I just laid one in my pants..." which was what I was thinking.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:47 AM on March 3, 2008
And I'm pretty sure in the audio he says "I just laid one in my pants..." which was what I was thinking.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:47 AM on March 3, 2008
This past summer my cousin took me up in a little cessna. we had to land in a cross wind too. I tell ya, looking out the cockpit at our fucked up approach was terrifying.
posted by MNDZ at 7:48 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by MNDZ at 7:48 AM on March 3, 2008
That must have been an extreme stomach-turn for all involved. Jeez.
posted by crunch buttsteak at 7:50 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by crunch buttsteak at 7:50 AM on March 3, 2008
That is a crazy video. Crosswind landings are freaky. I remember a crosswind landing once at PHL and looking out the window at the fuel refineries that line the waterway. Not a lot of room for error: water, fuel tanks or tarmac.
As a side note: What a freaking great pilot!
posted by zerobyproxy at 7:53 AM on March 3, 2008
As a side note: What a freaking great pilot!
posted by zerobyproxy at 7:53 AM on March 3, 2008
Are the wheels on pivots so they can swivel to the real velocity vector?
In the video's I've seen, the plane skids into the the proper direction in a very dramatic manner. That happened with the first A380 landing at LAX. Here is another Example in iceland. This is another good video of the A380 at LAX (but you can't see the skid too well). There used to be a good video shot with more of an overhead view, but I can't find that one anymore.
posted by delmoi at 7:54 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
In the video's I've seen, the plane skids into the the proper direction in a very dramatic manner. That happened with the first A380 landing at LAX. Here is another Example in iceland. This is another good video of the A380 at LAX (but you can't see the skid too well). There used to be a good video shot with more of an overhead view, but I can't find that one anymore.
posted by delmoi at 7:54 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's possible to land 'straight' if there is a strong crosswind.
You can't. You have to either yam in or bank in. The B-52 can turn all of the landing gear, allowing it to yaw in, but everybody else comes in on a bank and puts the gear down one at a time.
This guy got hit by a gust, worse, it looks like the gust veered, robbing him of lift. The mistake was not going around when he was first knocked, they tried to recover, when the wing hit, they knew it was time to go, and hit the TOGA1 button.
You think this was bad? They used to smack engines into Kai Tak's runway on a regular basis -- search "Kai Tak" on the various video sites for the motherload of WTF landings.
1) Take Off/Go Around. Commands the throttles to automatically get the power on as fast as possible.
posted by eriko at 7:55 AM on March 3, 2008
You can't. You have to either yam in or bank in. The B-52 can turn all of the landing gear, allowing it to yaw in, but everybody else comes in on a bank and puts the gear down one at a time.
This guy got hit by a gust, worse, it looks like the gust veered, robbing him of lift. The mistake was not going around when he was first knocked, they tried to recover, when the wing hit, they knew it was time to go, and hit the TOGA1 button.
You think this was bad? They used to smack engines into Kai Tak's runway on a regular basis -- search "Kai Tak" on the various video sites for the motherload of WTF landings.
1) Take Off/Go Around. Commands the throttles to automatically get the power on as fast as possible.
posted by eriko at 7:55 AM on March 3, 2008
Jet-drifting is a popular sport.
I spit out my soda, damn you!
posted by pjern at 7:59 AM on March 3, 2008
I spit out my soda, damn you!
posted by pjern at 7:59 AM on March 3, 2008
I kind of just assumed that landing a gigantic airplane full of fuel and people and super smart computers was way more controlled than this.... I don't know why I thought that - I guess, as a layman, I just felt better thinking about it that way.
Now I know the awful, awful truth, which is that a landing like this pretty much amounts to me trying to drive my Neon in the snow.
posted by kbanas at 7:59 AM on March 3, 2008
Now I know the awful, awful truth, which is that a landing like this pretty much amounts to me trying to drive my Neon in the snow.
posted by kbanas at 7:59 AM on March 3, 2008
If you look closely at at the photo in the second link, the wingtip is the only part of the airplane touching the ground. I saw that, and went "Awww shiiiiiit"
posted by pjern at 8:03 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by pjern at 8:03 AM on March 3, 2008
After something like this happens do all the passengers get a chance to hug the pilot?
posted by kbanas at 8:05 AM on March 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by kbanas at 8:05 AM on March 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Good thing it wasn't a midwestern (not the airline) pilot. You would have heard the following exchange over the airwaves:
Tower: RB-42 you are off line, break off your approach and come about for another try.
RB-42: Naah, I can see pleanty fine up here tower. We'll be gear down in just a moment.
Tower: RB-42, your are COMPLETELY off base! Set your flaps to full, power up and come around to runway 4!
RB-42: Tower, you're just jealous. This crosswind ain't bad, you should try landing a plane in Detroit during a snowstorm now, THAT'S off base!
Tower: RB-42! BACK OFF BACK OFF BACK OFF! THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING!
RB-42: Tower, Hold my beer and watch this shit!
posted by Sam.Burdick at 8:05 AM on March 3, 2008 [7 favorites]
Tower: RB-42 you are off line, break off your approach and come about for another try.
RB-42: Naah, I can see pleanty fine up here tower. We'll be gear down in just a moment.
Tower: RB-42, your are COMPLETELY off base! Set your flaps to full, power up and come around to runway 4!
RB-42: Tower, you're just jealous. This crosswind ain't bad, you should try landing a plane in Detroit during a snowstorm now, THAT'S off base!
Tower: RB-42! BACK OFF BACK OFF BACK OFF! THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING!
RB-42: Tower, Hold my beer and watch this shit!
posted by Sam.Burdick at 8:05 AM on March 3, 2008 [7 favorites]
Something like this happened on a flight I was on - not so much the near-crash but the almost landing and taking off again - and a little kid who was looking out the window said in all seriousness, “Must've been the wrong airport.”
posted by XMLicious at 8:17 AM on March 3, 2008 [22 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 8:17 AM on March 3, 2008 [22 favorites]
I was on a little 19-seater that went through something similar once. Only, this was pre-9/11, and the cockpit door was open, and I was in the first row, so I could see the whole thing from the pilot's perspective. I mean, fuck!
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:21 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:21 AM on March 3, 2008
And , after that, they had to wait for a gate, hike two miles to luggage, wait for the luggage, file a lost luggage claim, deal with TSA idiots, and try to find a cab (or wait for the overcrowded shuttle to the car rental place ten miles off the airport....
THIS is just one more reason I have sworn to never fly again!
posted by HuronBob at 8:23 AM on March 3, 2008
THIS is just one more reason I have sworn to never fly again!
posted by HuronBob at 8:23 AM on March 3, 2008
Reason number 2,532 to take a Melman Bus.
posted by psmealey at 8:30 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by psmealey at 8:30 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
the plane skids into the the proper direction in a very dramatic manner
It's not really a skid as such, I believe they use the rudder (the big vertical flappy bit on the tail) at the last second to move the plane on an horizontal axis whilst keeping the wings straight, so this swings the nose round to be pointing the correct way down the runway. It looks like this is what the pilot tries to do just before the wind grabs it and smacks the wing down on the runway.
The rudder is also used a lot on takeoff runs to keep the plane straight on the runway whilst getting up to takeoff speed.
posted by jontyjago at 8:45 AM on March 3, 2008
It's not really a skid as such, I believe they use the rudder (the big vertical flappy bit on the tail) at the last second to move the plane on an horizontal axis whilst keeping the wings straight, so this swings the nose round to be pointing the correct way down the runway. It looks like this is what the pilot tries to do just before the wind grabs it and smacks the wing down on the runway.
The rudder is also used a lot on takeoff runs to keep the plane straight on the runway whilst getting up to takeoff speed.
posted by jontyjago at 8:45 AM on March 3, 2008
So, if they don't recover here, what kind of crash would it have been? Would the wing have cracked off and the plane would have rolled? Or would it have worked out ok, but with a completely totalled plane?
posted by smackfu at 8:50 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by smackfu at 8:50 AM on March 3, 2008
Fifteen years ago I was in a BAe 146 as it made a crosswind landing at London City Airport--which has one narrow runway with water either side. 50mph crosswind. Passengers were screaming.
posted by Hogshead at 8:50 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by Hogshead at 8:50 AM on March 3, 2008
And as per eriko's comment, this is a pretty fucking scary crosswind landing at Kai Tak, although nothing that shouldn't actually hits the runway. Looks like the rudder is not actually applied until the rear gear touches down. And it's a 747, twice the length of an A320...
posted by jontyjago at 8:51 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by jontyjago at 8:51 AM on March 3, 2008
kbanas : Now I know the awful, awful truth, which is that a landing like this pretty much amounts to me trying to drive my Neon in the snow.
Only if you have had years of training, both in in real life and in simulators driving your Neon in the snow, and if you car itself had gone under fairly rigorous regular examination to ensure that all the key systems were operational, and if you driving meant that the road between were you were starting and where you were parking were cleared of all other vehicles.
Yes, there is still can be a huge human element in piloting, but to reduce it to someone driving in inclement weather seems to trivialize the skill of some of these people.
posted by quin at 8:53 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Only if you have had years of training, both in in real life and in simulators driving your Neon in the snow, and if you car itself had gone under fairly rigorous regular examination to ensure that all the key systems were operational, and if you driving meant that the road between were you were starting and where you were parking were cleared of all other vehicles.
Yes, there is still can be a huge human element in piloting, but to reduce it to someone driving in inclement weather seems to trivialize the skill of some of these people.
posted by quin at 8:53 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, there is still can be a huge human element in piloting, but to reduce it to someone driving in inclement weather seems to trivialize the skill of some of these people.
Not my intent! I meant more that, in the end, in both situations, it comes down to man wrangling with machine.
People who fly anything - from tiny Cessna to Boeing 757 - have my utmost respect for the things they do. They have serious, serious skills.
posted by kbanas at 8:58 AM on March 3, 2008
Not my intent! I meant more that, in the end, in both situations, it comes down to man wrangling with machine.
People who fly anything - from tiny Cessna to Boeing 757 - have my utmost respect for the things they do. They have serious, serious skills.
posted by kbanas at 8:58 AM on March 3, 2008
These airline pilots are all so badass. Years, (decades?) go by and it's day in day out nailing normal flights, never experiencing emergencies outside of simulators, then one day day, slam, you've got 2 seconds to save 200 lives with some seat of the pants shit that no ATC or autopilot can help you with.
What a shame most of the rest of the industry is such a joke.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 9:02 AM on March 3, 2008 [10 favorites]
What a shame most of the rest of the industry is such a joke.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 9:02 AM on March 3, 2008 [10 favorites]
I have to question the pilot's judgment in this case. There comes a time when a pilot has to make the decision whether conditions are too risky and head to their alternate airport. There is a lot of pressure to just get it down -- the airline stands to lose thousands of dollars when you go to an alternate and then there is also just plain pilot ego. Sometimes pilot's are swayed by the fact the the six planes before them landed successfully under poor conditions. This is can be a misleading calculation. Just because you flip heads six times in a row doesn't mean that you are more likely to do it a seventh time. This pilot came within a hair's breadth of killing a lot of people.
It is one thing to land an airplane in extreme crosswinds. It is quite another when those crosswinds are extremely gusty. In LordSludge's video above those tests were conducted under ideal conditions, a high vector crosswind that was predictable and steady. That doesn't appear to be the case in the OP video.
posted by JackFlash at 9:02 AM on March 3, 2008
It is one thing to land an airplane in extreme crosswinds. It is quite another when those crosswinds are extremely gusty. In LordSludge's video above those tests were conducted under ideal conditions, a high vector crosswind that was predictable and steady. That doesn't appear to be the case in the OP video.
posted by JackFlash at 9:02 AM on March 3, 2008
I am never getting on another airplane as long as I live.
posted by monkeymike at 9:12 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by monkeymike at 9:12 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Not my intent!
Fair enough. Sorry I misinterpreted you.
And I do notice that you are from MI so I certainly shouldn't have said anything that suggested disparagement at your winter driving skills. Michigan winters are hard core.
posted by quin at 9:13 AM on March 3, 2008
Fair enough. Sorry I misinterpreted you.
And I do notice that you are from MI so I certainly shouldn't have said anything that suggested disparagement at your winter driving skills. Michigan winters are hard core.
posted by quin at 9:13 AM on March 3, 2008
I hear there's a lot of pressure to reduce (aka. 'optimize') fuel loads to the point where making a detour to an alternate airport could be very difficult, especially after one go-around.
Also, I'd like to ask Airbus: "Where is thy fancy automation now?"... if pilots are going to need to step in and take the reins in exceptionally hazardous situations, you better not leave them totally out of the loop, pushing buttons, and losing their skills for the other 99.99% of the time.
posted by anthill at 9:16 AM on March 3, 2008
Also, I'd like to ask Airbus: "Where is thy fancy automation now?"... if pilots are going to need to step in and take the reins in exceptionally hazardous situations, you better not leave them totally out of the loop, pushing buttons, and losing their skills for the other 99.99% of the time.
posted by anthill at 9:16 AM on March 3, 2008
And I do notice that you are from MI so I certainly shouldn't have said anything that suggested disparagement at your winter driving skills. Michigan winters are hard core.
Oh, disparage away. Some people who drive in Michigan have serious skills - that much is certain. Me, not so much. I sit in the right lane and go 35 MPH and my fingernails leave an indentation in the steering wheel. There is nothing quite so horrifying.
Except for being in an airplane when the wing bounces off the tarmac. That's probably slightly more horrifying.
posted by kbanas at 9:16 AM on March 3, 2008
Oh, disparage away. Some people who drive in Michigan have serious skills - that much is certain. Me, not so much. I sit in the right lane and go 35 MPH and my fingernails leave an indentation in the steering wheel. There is nothing quite so horrifying.
Except for being in an airplane when the wing bounces off the tarmac. That's probably slightly more horrifying.
posted by kbanas at 9:16 AM on March 3, 2008
(my comment on watching this video for the first time)
TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!
posted by smoothvirus at 9:23 AM on March 3, 2008
TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!
posted by smoothvirus at 9:23 AM on March 3, 2008
MetaFilter: This god out of hand at a particularly bad time.
posted by The Bellman at 9:26 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by The Bellman at 9:26 AM on March 3, 2008
I've found that the few times I've flown internationally, the passengers applauded when the plane landed -- even the smooth, clean landings. That doesn't seem to happen in the US.
After seeing these videos, and those from that recent "HOLY SHIT PLANE CRASH VIDS" thread:
I AM GOING TO APPLAUD EVERY TIME.
posted by not_on_display at 9:48 AM on March 3, 2008
After seeing these videos, and those from that recent "HOLY SHIT PLANE CRASH VIDS" thread:
I AM GOING TO APPLAUD EVERY TIME.
posted by not_on_display at 9:48 AM on March 3, 2008
The few carribean destinations I've visited, the runways are often short and wedged somewhere between a mountain and a reef, so it's quite an experience to be a passenger when they land: sharp low turn to line up for the runway, a modest crab, git'er down, then hit the brakes. But it's all very controlled,and i guess the wind is fairly steady, and the pilots make it all look easy.
As a kid, I remember a short local flight in Canada in a 737. We took off from a relatively short runway, and as we rotate, I feel a whunk!, and I say to my friend that we bumped the tail. When we landed and deplaned onto the tarmac (no tunnel then) we went around and looked at the tail. Yup, it was scratched. Apparently the 737's are built to take it.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:49 AM on March 3, 2008
As a kid, I remember a short local flight in Canada in a 737. We took off from a relatively short runway, and as we rotate, I feel a whunk!, and I say to my friend that we bumped the tail. When we landed and deplaned onto the tarmac (no tunnel then) we went around and looked at the tail. Yup, it was scratched. Apparently the 737's are built to take it.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:49 AM on March 3, 2008
These pilots, I would fly with them any day. Amazing skills. I'd faved this incredible landing (on youtube) a few years ago...
posted by dawson at 9:50 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by dawson at 9:50 AM on March 3, 2008
What would have happened if they were landing on a conveyor belt?
posted by srboisvert at 9:51 AM on March 3, 2008 [10 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 9:51 AM on March 3, 2008 [10 favorites]
TICKETS! Two Air Canada tickets to NYC for part of Spring break! Really cheap! Willing to trade for Amtrak... no wait... Greyhound bus... Oh hell. Forget it. I... MikeD, being of sound mind and body do hereby bequeath my collection of Kinder egg toys to...
posted by Mike D at 9:53 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by Mike D at 9:53 AM on March 3, 2008
No one has commented on the excellent "235 clean pairs of underwear to gate 35, please". My compliments.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:56 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:56 AM on March 3, 2008
Talk about your 'touch and go'...
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:56 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 9:56 AM on March 3, 2008
how often are these crosswind landings to blame for crashes?
posted by any major dude at 9:57 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by any major dude at 9:57 AM on March 3, 2008
So this Airbus comes equipped with 164 built in toilets?
posted by Gungho at 10:00 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Gungho at 10:00 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
People watch this video and claim they'll never fly again. I have the opposite reaction. I see this video and think "wow, those plans sure can take a beating and there are some damn skilled pilots flying them."
I feel better about flying commercially now.
posted by bondcliff at 10:01 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I feel better about flying commercially now.
posted by bondcliff at 10:01 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: 99.99% pure tedium, punctuated by 0.01% pure terror.
posted by loiseau at 10:02 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by loiseau at 10:02 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Stonestock Relentless said: "These airline pilots are all so badass. Years, (decades?) go by and it's day in day out nailing normal flights, never experiencing emergencies outside of simulators, then one day day, slam, you've got 2 seconds to save 200 lives with some seat of the pants shit that no ATC or autopilot can help you with."
This is why I take care to say "thanks" or "well done" directly to the pilots at the cockpit door every single time I step off an airplane. Because "nailing normal flights" might be just a day in the life for him, but I can muster three seconds to say "thanks for not needing the seat-of-the-pants shit."
posted by pineapple at 10:04 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is why I take care to say "thanks" or "well done" directly to the pilots at the cockpit door every single time I step off an airplane. Because "nailing normal flights" might be just a day in the life for him, but I can muster three seconds to say "thanks for not needing the seat-of-the-pants shit."
posted by pineapple at 10:04 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
The two most terrifying moments I experienced on aircraft were on different legs of the same trip. In one, we blew an engine (at least that's what I think happened, they never shared that little bit of information with the passengers). While at altitude, there was a very loud BANG, the whole airframe suddered, the aircraft started to yaw quite noticeably and we started losing altitude, also quite noticeably. The pilot put out the high lift surfaces, stablized the aircraft (including throttling up the remaining good engine) and we flew uneventfully for another 45 minutes until we did a straight-in laind at DFW. Like I said, other than the flight attendants kind of yelling with surprise like the rest of us, the crew never said a thing.
The second incident was on a takeoff.... just as the aircraft felt it was time to rotate, the pilot hit full reverse thrust, stopping the plane just before the end of the runway. We must have been right at the point of no return. The pilot came on and explained that "One of the engines just wasn't behaving right and we didn't want to chance it."
I've had a few bumpy, bouncy landings, but those were the two where I really thought that we were close to being toast.
posted by Doohickie at 10:05 AM on March 3, 2008
The second incident was on a takeoff.... just as the aircraft felt it was time to rotate, the pilot hit full reverse thrust, stopping the plane just before the end of the runway. We must have been right at the point of no return. The pilot came on and explained that "One of the engines just wasn't behaving right and we didn't want to chance it."
I've had a few bumpy, bouncy landings, but those were the two where I really thought that we were close to being toast.
posted by Doohickie at 10:05 AM on March 3, 2008
how often are these crosswind landings to blame for crashes?
It's not so much the crosswind as the gust that gets you. They usually refer to that as a "downburst".
posted by Doohickie at 10:06 AM on March 3, 2008
It's not so much the crosswind as the gust that gets you. They usually refer to that as a "downburst".
posted by Doohickie at 10:06 AM on March 3, 2008
It looks like the pilot tried to transition from a crab (level but pointed into the wind) to a slip (upwind wing low, opposite rudder fighting the turn, airplane pointed down the runway) at the 30-second mark, but the gust had its way with the plane forcing the pilot to crab back over to the runway centerline. At the 40-second mark the pilot tries to get back into the slip but the downwind wing stays down for some reason - exactly opposite what you need to have happen. Gust may have gotten under the right wing.
I get a little queasy watching the plane settle so fast in the crab between to 30 and 40 second marks, but then I've never landed anything with more than 180 horsepower. Not sure if the pilot should have gone around at that point rather than count on a flawless slip transition so close to the ground.
Hell of a job getting out of there.
[one-year anniversary of my first solo]
posted by ChuqD at 10:18 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I get a little queasy watching the plane settle so fast in the crab between to 30 and 40 second marks, but then I've never landed anything with more than 180 horsepower. Not sure if the pilot should have gone around at that point rather than count on a flawless slip transition so close to the ground.
Hell of a job getting out of there.
[one-year anniversary of my first solo]
posted by ChuqD at 10:18 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is why they make the wingtips frangible.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:23 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:23 AM on March 3, 2008
The google ads under the video are priceless:
Panic Attacks and Natural Anxiety Treatment
posted by nzero at 10:24 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Panic Attacks and Natural Anxiety Treatment
posted by nzero at 10:24 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm flying into Hong Kong on a budget airline on Friday, this thread is thrilling preparation.
posted by biffa at 10:26 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 10:26 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
As a six year employee of The Boeing Airplane Company, my reaction watching that video was thus:
[start of tape] Ah, that's not so bad ...
[23 sec in] WHOA, that was big - ah, he's back on line ...
[Plane passes overhead] Yeah, he'll be fine.
[over runway] Uh-oh, that was a big gust-WHOA ANOTHER ONE!
[upon being three feet away from cartwheeling] Oh shit! Oh SHIT!! OH SHIT!!! Sonofabitch! At least he had the brains to go around.
I swear to God it looked like he tried to plant it hard at least twice, maybe three times.
That was so close to being so bad.
posted by Relay at 10:37 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
[start of tape] Ah, that's not so bad ...
[23 sec in] WHOA, that was big - ah, he's back on line ...
[Plane passes overhead] Yeah, he'll be fine.
[over runway] Uh-oh, that was a big gust-WHOA ANOTHER ONE!
[upon being three feet away from cartwheeling] Oh shit! Oh SHIT!! OH SHIT!!! Sonofabitch! At least he had the brains to go around.
I swear to God it looked like he tried to plant it hard at least twice, maybe three times.
That was so close to being so bad.
posted by Relay at 10:37 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
biffa: Count your lucky stars you're not landing at Kai Tak. I used to fly Cathay Pacific to and from Kai Tak International, invariably in a 747. The Cathay pilots (way back then I think they were all ex-RAF or RAAF or RNZAF) had to bank the damn Boeing between two skyscrapers on the approach.
Never did get used to it.
posted by illiad at 10:39 AM on March 3, 2008
Never did get used to it.
posted by illiad at 10:39 AM on March 3, 2008
Cribbed from airliners.net:
\From the Aviation Community Norddeuschland board:
"hab grad mit nem Kollegen und Freund aus der Wartung telefoniert der grad Dienst hat, er hat die Kiste bearbeitet:
Wingtip komplett verbogen nach oben, untere Hälfte des Winglet ist nach inboard gebogen ca. 45 Grad, Slat ist angeschliffen...sonst alles ok!"
which is:
Just called a colleague and friend who is on duty in maintenance, he has worked on the AC:
wingtip completely bent upwards, lower half of winglet bent inboard at about 45 degrees, slat partly grounded. No further damage.
Damned lucky; if the slat goes, there's controllability issues; if it digs in, that's all she wrote.
posted by pjern at 10:44 AM on March 3, 2008
\From the Aviation Community Norddeuschland board:
"hab grad mit nem Kollegen und Freund aus der Wartung telefoniert der grad Dienst hat, er hat die Kiste bearbeitet:
Wingtip komplett verbogen nach oben, untere Hälfte des Winglet ist nach inboard gebogen ca. 45 Grad, Slat ist angeschliffen...sonst alles ok!"
which is:
Just called a colleague and friend who is on duty in maintenance, he has worked on the AC:
wingtip completely bent upwards, lower half of winglet bent inboard at about 45 degrees, slat partly grounded. No further damage.
Damned lucky; if the slat goes, there's controllability issues; if it digs in, that's all she wrote.
posted by pjern at 10:44 AM on March 3, 2008
From Bklyn "And I'm pretty sure in the audio he says "I just laid one in my pants..." which was what I was thinking."
Nah: guy said: "Das ging beinahe in die Hose..." - literally, yes, it "almost went to the trousers"; just a figure of speech, though, for things going to pot.
posted by progosk at 10:52 AM on March 3, 2008
Nah: guy said: "Das ging beinahe in die Hose..." - literally, yes, it "almost went to the trousers"; just a figure of speech, though, for things going to pot.
posted by progosk at 10:52 AM on March 3, 2008
Never did get used to it.
posted by illiad at 10:39 AM on March 3 [+] [!]
Kai Tak?
[shudder]
Never flown into it personally, but I have done moving base simulator runs, and that was quite fine enough, thank you very much.
I heard stories about maintenance crews picking laundry out of the wheel-wells of 747SPs, and I don't doubt them.
posted by Relay at 10:52 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by illiad at 10:39 AM on March 3 [+] [!]
Kai Tak?
[shudder]
Never flown into it personally, but I have done moving base simulator runs, and that was quite fine enough, thank you very much.
I heard stories about maintenance crews picking laundry out of the wheel-wells of 747SPs, and I don't doubt them.
posted by Relay at 10:52 AM on March 3, 2008
I just had another thought in passing:
Jet airliners date from around 1958-9, roughly. That's pretty much 50 years. We've had ubiquitous video cameras and Youtube/liveleak for really only a couple of those years. I wonder what kinds of things happened in the other 45+ years that we'll never ever have a hint for except for some old guy like me telling what will be thought of as sea stories.
posted by pjern at 10:55 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Jet airliners date from around 1958-9, roughly. That's pretty much 50 years. We've had ubiquitous video cameras and Youtube/liveleak for really only a couple of those years. I wonder what kinds of things happened in the other 45+ years that we'll never ever have a hint for except for some old guy like me telling what will be thought of as sea stories.
posted by pjern at 10:55 AM on March 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Relay: I rode into and out of Kai Tak as a passenger in the mid-1970s a lot. I never got used to sitting in the back of a Pan Am 747 and looking directly into people's kitchens and bedrooms as we went down that hill between the buildings. It's the only airport I've ever been in that made me queasy as a passenger.
posted by pjern at 10:58 AM on March 3, 2008
posted by pjern at 10:58 AM on March 3, 2008
For crying out loud, I would expect MetaFilter to do better than the Fark and ebaumsworld riffraff by actually posting some backstory.
Some info is here, and essentially what happened is this was Lufthansa flight 44 from Munich to Hamburg on March 1 attempting to land on Rwy 23 and being hit with a crosswind from starboard (winds were reported as 290 deg true at 28 kt gusting to 48 kt). After this incident the pilots elected to attempt a landing on Rwy 33, which offered a similar crosswind component but from the other side of plane (the port side). They got it down fine. The real question as far as I'm concerned is whether this exceeded the crosswind limitations of the plane... I don't know what it is for the A320 but I recall that for the 727 the limitations kicked in at about 25 kt.
Now please don't make me do y'alls homework anymore, ok?
posted by crapmatic at 11:02 AM on March 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Some info is here, and essentially what happened is this was Lufthansa flight 44 from Munich to Hamburg on March 1 attempting to land on Rwy 23 and being hit with a crosswind from starboard (winds were reported as 290 deg true at 28 kt gusting to 48 kt). After this incident the pilots elected to attempt a landing on Rwy 33, which offered a similar crosswind component but from the other side of plane (the port side). They got it down fine. The real question as far as I'm concerned is whether this exceeded the crosswind limitations of the plane... I don't know what it is for the A320 but I recall that for the 727 the limitations kicked in at about 25 kt.
Now please don't make me do y'alls homework anymore, ok?
posted by crapmatic at 11:02 AM on March 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
the guys who shot this are discussing this (in german, duh) over at hamburg-airport-friends-forum.de. there are additional still photos.
Why didn't they wave him off when he was coming in sideways?
oh man, wave off? does this look like an aircraft carrier to you? airports don't have LSO's.
posted by krautland at 11:02 AM on March 3, 2008
Why didn't they wave him off when he was coming in sideways?
oh man, wave off? does this look like an aircraft carrier to you? airports don't have LSO's.
posted by krautland at 11:02 AM on March 3, 2008
crapmatic, the fact that you posted that shows that Metafilter is working. So there.
(As an aside, these new ads in flash movies are annoying, but even more annoying are the little "Ad" reminders left behind when you dismiss the ad. Do they really feel like someone is going to go "thank god I can look at this ad later!")
posted by maxwelton at 12:23 PM on March 3, 2008
(As an aside, these new ads in flash movies are annoying, but even more annoying are the little "Ad" reminders left behind when you dismiss the ad. Do they really feel like someone is going to go "thank god I can look at this ad later!")
posted by maxwelton at 12:23 PM on March 3, 2008
As I get on a plane to Europe in a month, I was smart enough to know watching the original video would be a bad idea. But I was intrigued enough to go look up Kai Tak and a few related YouTube videos. And now I can only comment that holy freakin' crap I'm glad I never had the opportunity to fly into that airport.
Also, I'm going to need to find a way to walk to Europe now.
posted by idigress at 12:34 PM on March 3, 2008
Also, I'm going to need to find a way to walk to Europe now.
posted by idigress at 12:34 PM on March 3, 2008
This is why we gotta equip our runways with treadmills.
People watch this video and claim they'll never fly again. I have the opposite reaction. I see this video and think "wow, those plans sure can take a beating and there are some damn skilled pilots flying them."
I feel better about flying commercially now.
Agreed! Similarly, every time I'm in a plane in some crazy buffeting turbulence, I think of all the stories I've read about warplanes getting all shot to pieces but limping it back to base with like one engine, half the wings and no tail.
But then there's that airliner that crashed into Brighton Beach, NY in Oct 2001 after the tail blew off... that does not reassure....
posted by Flashman at 1:47 PM on March 3, 2008
People watch this video and claim they'll never fly again. I have the opposite reaction. I see this video and think "wow, those plans sure can take a beating and there are some damn skilled pilots flying them."
I feel better about flying commercially now.
Agreed! Similarly, every time I'm in a plane in some crazy buffeting turbulence, I think of all the stories I've read about warplanes getting all shot to pieces but limping it back to base with like one engine, half the wings and no tail.
But then there's that airliner that crashed into Brighton Beach, NY in Oct 2001 after the tail blew off... that does not reassure....
posted by Flashman at 1:47 PM on March 3, 2008
"What a shame most of the rest of the industry is such a joke.
—Stonestock Relentless"
No kidding, see below.
But HuronBob, You weren't imprisoned on the plane, 'Tarmacked' for 9 hours with overflowing trash cans and loo's, no food, no contaminated water only to find out your 'lost' luggage was being sold online, were you¿
Well, Kate Hanni was tarmacked for 9 hours, no food, no water, because it was only going to be a short trip...Her concise story on her Coalition for an Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights Bulletinboard/blog.
As heard on this podcast interview, CBC, The Sunday Edition, March 2, 2008, Michael Enright.
[Radio Log of said podcast — 4 minutes in, running 21 minutes.]
THAT is some crazy attempt at landing./// Crazy.// Agreed, if that wing tip didn't graze the tarmac, but dug in, that would have been one endo.
I'm not in favour of cheering every landing though. Some landings do need a pat on the back though. You'll know which those are...
Then there's wind shear to deal with....
Like they say, you have a better chance of dying in a car crash than in an airplane, so stay cool, no screaming in the cabin if the plane loses thousands of feet of altitude, suddenly [happened to me on a LOT flight once].
posted by alicesshoe at 2:31 PM on March 3, 2008
—Stonestock Relentless"
No kidding, see below.
But HuronBob, You weren't imprisoned on the plane, 'Tarmacked' for 9 hours with overflowing trash cans and loo's, no food, no contaminated water only to find out your 'lost' luggage was being sold online, were you¿
Well, Kate Hanni was tarmacked for 9 hours, no food, no water, because it was only going to be a short trip...Her concise story on her Coalition for an Airline Passengers' Bill of Rights Bulletinboard/blog.
As heard on this podcast interview, CBC, The Sunday Edition, March 2, 2008, Michael Enright.
[Radio Log of said podcast — 4 minutes in, running 21 minutes.]
THAT is some crazy attempt at landing./// Crazy.// Agreed, if that wing tip didn't graze the tarmac, but dug in, that would have been one endo.
I'm not in favour of cheering every landing though. Some landings do need a pat on the back though. You'll know which those are...
Then there's wind shear to deal with....
Like they say, you have a better chance of dying in a car crash than in an airplane, so stay cool, no screaming in the cabin if the plane loses thousands of feet of altitude, suddenly [happened to me on a LOT flight once].
posted by alicesshoe at 2:31 PM on March 3, 2008
NYT takes note of the hubbub.
Memes are so weird - this is at leas the third time in a week I have seen crosswind landings fly y in my feeds.
posted by mwhybark at 3:25 PM on March 3, 2008
Memes are so weird - this is at leas the third time in a week I have seen crosswind landings fly y in my feeds.
posted by mwhybark at 3:25 PM on March 3, 2008
Here's what the wing looked like when they finally got down.
posted by doublesix at 7:55 PM on March 3, 2008
posted by doublesix at 7:55 PM on March 3, 2008
Might as well take this opportunity to link to the World's Most Pant-Defiling Runways, including a nice video of the approach at St. Martins in the Caribbean.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:05 PM on March 3, 2008
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:05 PM on March 3, 2008
Professional Pilots Rumor Network thread regarding the incident.
posted by spock at 9:06 PM on March 3, 2008
posted by spock at 9:06 PM on March 3, 2008
a CNN reporter was on the plane. interview with him here. (please ignore the most. insipid. reporter. evar. conducting the interview. she's fresh off her high school newspaper.)
posted by killy willy at 9:08 PM on March 3, 2008
posted by killy willy at 9:08 PM on March 3, 2008
Wow, the pilots in spock's link do not care for the Air Bus in crosswind landings. Scary.
posted by caddis at 9:59 PM on March 3, 2008
posted by caddis at 9:59 PM on March 3, 2008
From the Bild tabloid's timeline of the event (roughly translated):
1:32 pm: Before touchdown a gust pushes the aircraft left. Using the pedals, the pilots try to correct for the crosswind. A control surface scrapes on the runway. Dead silence on board, vomit bags are used.posted by moonbiter at 11:12 PM on March 3, 2008
Bild is also reporting that the plane was being flown by the "beautiful" 24-year-old co-pilot instead of the more-experienced pilot.
posted by Ljubljana at 6:54 AM on March 4, 2008
posted by Ljubljana at 6:54 AM on March 4, 2008
After something like this happens do all the passengers get a chance to hug the pilot?
After this I would want to hug him/her for keeping us alive and then punch him/her for trying to land in that fucking crosswind in the first damn place. I don't give a shit what the tower says, you are called the captain because you are the one in charge of the ship.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2008
After this I would want to hug him/her for keeping us alive and then punch him/her for trying to land in that fucking crosswind in the first damn place. I don't give a shit what the tower says, you are called the captain because you are the one in charge of the ship.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2008
Bild is also reporting that the plane was being flown by the "beautiful" 24-year-old co-pilot instead of the more-experienced pilot.
Bild reports?
posted by ersatz at 1:36 PM on March 4, 2008
Bild reports?
posted by ersatz at 1:36 PM on March 4, 2008
killy willy: (please ignore the most. insipid. reporter. evar. conducting the interview. she's fresh off her high school newspaper.)
Holy crap. Quote: "What, I mean, what? The person next to you, you probably didn't know that person, obviously... I mean, were you screaming?"
posted by loiseau at 2:48 PM on March 4, 2008
Holy crap. Quote: "What, I mean, what? The person next to you, you probably didn't know that person, obviously... I mean, were you screaming?"
posted by loiseau at 2:48 PM on March 4, 2008
Might as well take this opportunity to link to the World's Most Pant-Defiling Runways, including a nice video of the approach at St. Martins in the Caribbean.
I was all excited about landing at that airport when I went to St Martin. It wasn't that exciting in the plane. (And they only get a few flights per day and we were staying on the other side of the island, so we couldn't go back and watch other flights without making a day out of it.)
Fuck all those other airports, though. Ugh.
Professional Pilots Rumor Network thread regarding the incident.
Very cool. They speak in tongues.
posted by liet at 3:44 PM on March 4, 2008
I was all excited about landing at that airport when I went to St Martin. It wasn't that exciting in the plane. (And they only get a few flights per day and we were staying on the other side of the island, so we couldn't go back and watch other flights without making a day out of it.)
Fuck all those other airports, though. Ugh.
Professional Pilots Rumor Network thread regarding the incident.
Very cool. They speak in tongues.
posted by liet at 3:44 PM on March 4, 2008
pjern writes "We've had ubiquitous video cameras and Youtube/liveleak for really only a couple of those years. I wonder what kinds of things happened in the other 45+ years that we'll never ever have a hint for except for some old guy like me telling what will be thought of as sea stories."
Not that it would have made good youtubery but I sure would have liked to see the landing where the pilot dead sticked a 767 on to the runway in Gimli.
posted by Mitheral at 9:22 PM on March 6, 2008
Not that it would have made good youtubery but I sure would have liked to see the landing where the pilot dead sticked a 767 on to the runway in Gimli.
posted by Mitheral at 9:22 PM on March 6, 2008
Hurray, I made it safely in at Hong Kong, now I just have to get back to Gatwick safely, current weather predictions say 35mph winds there tomorrow!
posted by biffa at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2008
posted by biffa at 7:53 PM on March 10, 2008
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