I believe there is a lesson to be learned here
May 12, 2008 11:03 AM Subscribe
Triple Murderer caught after escape from experimental furlough program. And again after failing to return from a 2 day leave. And again after escaping from a minimum security work release program.
Also captured in 1994 after escaping with a hostage. Failed escaping in 1989, 1991, 1997 and 2004.
His name : Juha Valjakkala.
(I do not mean to find humour in his horrible crime, but I did find the fact that they still let him out of prison for day trips funny)
Also captured in 1994 after escaping with a hostage. Failed escaping in 1989, 1991, 1997 and 2004.
His name : Juha Valjakkala.
(I do not mean to find humour in his horrible crime, but I did find the fact that they still let him out of prison for day trips funny)
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
I guess it's funny in a "How are you possibly so dumb?" sort of way. But it's mostly just terrifying.
posted by Caduceus at 11:08 AM on May 12, 2008
posted by Caduceus at 11:08 AM on May 12, 2008
Not really terrifying. I mean he's a scary person, but it's so far out of the norm here that he's more of a curiosity than anything else.
It's really a different perspective.
I apologize if the humour fails. It's just a ridiculous situation. Not HO HO HO jolly funny, but dark cynical, shake your head chuckle funny.
i would urge you to read the articles though and not the scary as fuck Wikipedia article. The tone the sanomat takes is pretty droll.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:10 AM on May 12, 2008
It's really a different perspective.
I apologize if the humour fails. It's just a ridiculous situation. Not HO HO HO jolly funny, but dark cynical, shake your head chuckle funny.
i would urge you to read the articles though and not the scary as fuck Wikipedia article. The tone the sanomat takes is pretty droll.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:10 AM on May 12, 2008
But hey, he hasn't killed again or anything like that, has he?
posted by Frankie Villon at 11:17 AM on May 12, 2008
posted by Frankie Villon at 11:17 AM on May 12, 2008
Don't think so. He just runs off from prison. And that one hostage situation.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:18 AM on May 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:18 AM on May 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's just a ridiculous situation.
Not really. They had somebody who had already demostrated that he was dangerously violent and allowed him to be outside of a prison. That's not 'ridiculous,' just stupid and callous.
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on May 12, 2008
Not really. They had somebody who had already demostrated that he was dangerously violent and allowed him to be outside of a prison. That's not 'ridiculous,' just stupid and callous.
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on May 12, 2008
Prisons here are focused on Rehabilitation, not punishment.
I'm torn about whether it's stupid to give this guy the benefit of the doubt though. On one hand, yeah he's got prior escapes, but I think the entire point of rehabilitation is that people can be rehabilitated. No matter who.
Generally, it seems to work extraordinarily well here, but the societal values are different than in the US.
So yeah, it's still ridiculous, but their system does seem to work well.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:22 AM on May 12, 2008
I'm torn about whether it's stupid to give this guy the benefit of the doubt though. On one hand, yeah he's got prior escapes, but I think the entire point of rehabilitation is that people can be rehabilitated. No matter who.
Generally, it seems to work extraordinarily well here, but the societal values are different than in the US.
So yeah, it's still ridiculous, but their system does seem to work well.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:22 AM on May 12, 2008
Prisons here are focused on Rehabilitation, not punishment.
This case would not be the best argument for how well that's been working, sir.
posted by jonmc at 11:24 AM on May 12, 2008
This case would not be the best argument for how well that's been working, sir.
posted by jonmc at 11:24 AM on May 12, 2008
Prisons here are focused on Rehabilitation, not punishment.
Where is "here"? Oh yeah, maybe in Finland. Maybe they should also put a little emphasis on "keeping the public safe".
posted by DU at 11:25 AM on May 12, 2008
Where is "here"? Oh yeah, maybe in Finland. Maybe they should also put a little emphasis on "keeping the public safe".
posted by DU at 11:25 AM on May 12, 2008
Prisons here are focused on Rehabilitation, not punishment.
And before their about either, they're supposed to be about public safety.
posted by jonmc at 11:26 AM on May 12, 2008
And before their about either, they're supposed to be about public safety.
posted by jonmc at 11:26 AM on May 12, 2008
Maybe they should also put a little emphasis on "keeping the public safe".
Maybe they should lock up the public.
posted by betaray at 11:29 AM on May 12, 2008
Maybe they should lock up the public.
posted by betaray at 11:29 AM on May 12, 2008
i would urge you to read the articles though and not the scary as fuck Wikipedia article. The tone the sanomat takes is pretty droll.
I think "Scary as fuck" is appropriate when describing a psychopath who shoots a 13 year old, the thirteen year old's dad and then slits the throat of the wife and mother when she comes looking for her family.
And then upon one of his many numerous escapes, he takes a hostage? This guy doesn't need furloughs, he needs a lethal injection.
Or better yet, give him enough rope and don't save him the next time he tries to hang himself.
On preview: Prisons are also for protecting the public. This maniac killed an entire family over a bicycle. And how do these numerous escape attempts show any evidence of rehabilitation?
posted by cjets at 11:33 AM on May 12, 2008
I think "Scary as fuck" is appropriate when describing a psychopath who shoots a 13 year old, the thirteen year old's dad and then slits the throat of the wife and mother when she comes looking for her family.
And then upon one of his many numerous escapes, he takes a hostage? This guy doesn't need furloughs, he needs a lethal injection.
Or better yet, give him enough rope and don't save him the next time he tries to hang himself.
On preview: Prisons are also for protecting the public. This maniac killed an entire family over a bicycle. And how do these numerous escape attempts show any evidence of rehabilitation?
posted by cjets at 11:33 AM on May 12, 2008
Without getting into the entire debate about the nature of human punishment and human safety, here's some reading material.
I think the Recidivism rate in the US is ~60%, with some crazy high incarceration rate. Uk is around 50, but they focus on Rehabilitation.
The data I found in Finland focuses on 1993-2001 and was 40%, but I think it's lower now.
More information -
Analysis of Open Prison System in Finland
TLDR - The conclusion of the study is that, the introduction of the policies which laid emphasis on rehabilitation rather than using the prison institution as mere punishment tool in Finland have contributed to a better understanding of the structure and functioning not only of prison populations but of social groups in general. In addition, these methods of prevention and rehabilitation in conjunction with correctional, educational staff within and outside the prison walls steadfastly upholding these policies have contributed to the low recidivism rate in Finland.
If you are using prisons for public safety, to remove those who are not fit to return to normal society, without rehabilitating them, well, you've got a doozy of a sociological problem.
Either way. It's ridiculous, and was funny before we got dragged into a ZOMG PRISONS debate.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2008
I think the Recidivism rate in the US is ~60%, with some crazy high incarceration rate. Uk is around 50, but they focus on Rehabilitation.
The data I found in Finland focuses on 1993-2001 and was 40%, but I think it's lower now.
More information -
Analysis of Open Prison System in Finland
TLDR - The conclusion of the study is that, the introduction of the policies which laid emphasis on rehabilitation rather than using the prison institution as mere punishment tool in Finland have contributed to a better understanding of the structure and functioning not only of prison populations but of social groups in general. In addition, these methods of prevention and rehabilitation in conjunction with correctional, educational staff within and outside the prison walls steadfastly upholding these policies have contributed to the low recidivism rate in Finland.
If you are using prisons for public safety, to remove those who are not fit to return to normal society, without rehabilitating them, well, you've got a doozy of a sociological problem.
Either way. It's ridiculous, and was funny before we got dragged into a ZOMG PRISONS debate.
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2008
That's not 'ridiculous,' just stupid and callous.
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on May 12 [+] [!]
And also ridiculous. I mean, you see that, right?
posted by basicchannel at 11:36 AM on May 12, 2008
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on May 12 [+] [!]
And also ridiculous. I mean, you see that, right?
posted by basicchannel at 11:36 AM on May 12, 2008
...funny before we got dragged into a ZOMG PRISONS debate.
That's debatable, but I'd like to ask how you think we "got dragged" into a prison debate.
posted by DU at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2008
That's debatable, but I'd like to ask how you think we "got dragged" into a prison debate.
posted by DU at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2008
While I definitely prefer the Finnish rehabilitative system to the lock-em-up-and-rape-em Joe Arpaio situation we seem to have in the US, there are only so many chances you can give a guy. As soon as a hostage was involved in his many escape attempts, that ought to have been the end of his furlough privileges.
A general disinterest in particpating in civilization probably isn't something that can be "rehabilitated." That the system continues to give this guy chances is funny, in a Hogan's Heroes sort of way.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2008
A general disinterest in particpating in civilization probably isn't something that can be "rehabilitated." That the system continues to give this guy chances is funny, in a Hogan's Heroes sort of way.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2008
Either way. It's ridiculous, and was funny before we got dragged into a ZOMG PRISONS debate.
You post a LOLTRIPLEMURDERER thread and have the nerve to be surprised that it turns in to a debate about prisons? Mybe you need rehabilitation. for brain damage.
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on May 12, 2008
You post a LOLTRIPLEMURDERER thread and have the nerve to be surprised that it turns in to a debate about prisons? Mybe you need rehabilitation. for brain damage.
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on May 12, 2008
And also ridiculous. I mean, you see that, right?
but not all that chuckleworthy.
posted by jonmc at 11:40 AM on May 12, 2008
but not all that chuckleworthy.
posted by jonmc at 11:40 AM on May 12, 2008
The wikipedia article states that we was released February 25, 2008.
By what metric is he considered rehabilitated?
posted by bastionofsanity at 11:42 AM on May 12, 2008
By what metric is he considered rehabilitated?
posted by bastionofsanity at 11:42 AM on May 12, 2008
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Um, yeah, hilarious.
posted by jonmc at 11:06 AM on May 12, 2008