Propaganda is now officially hip.
May 23, 2008 11:36 PM Subscribe
Propaganda is now officially hip.
Barack Obama's presidential campaign has struck a palette with those interested in good, effective design. Shepard Fairey was recently given the opportunity to create a screenprinted poster for Obama's campaign, which sold out quite quickly. Next, his campaign turns to artist Scott Hansen, aka ISO50 for his visual art and Tycho for his music. Mr. Hansen's poster employs his idealistic and nostalgic style, yet more direct than his typical dreamy work. It's quite lovely.
Hasn't propaganda been hip since the seventies? Propaganda is to post-structuralism as camp is to teh gay.
posted by bunnytricks at 11:56 PM on May 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by bunnytricks at 11:56 PM on May 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
Obama CMYK
He wants you to Democratic Party Party Party!
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:19 AM on May 24, 2008
He wants you to Democratic Party Party Party!
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:19 AM on May 24, 2008
Cultural Revolution-era art (stuff like this) was officially hip starting in the late sixties!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:31 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:31 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Have you seen Hillary's pathetic Obama wannabe poster?
The description says:
Designed by Hollywood screenwriter Tony Puryear ("Eraser")
HOLY SHIT! Is there a limit to how many I can buy at once?!
posted by redteam at 1:20 AM on May 24, 2008
The description says:
Designed by Hollywood screenwriter Tony Puryear ("Eraser")
HOLY SHIT! Is there a limit to how many I can buy at once?!
posted by redteam at 1:20 AM on May 24, 2008
Another take from a while back:
Much as I dislike George Bush, I don’t think he’s actually a Nazi. Which makes it doubly odd that he’s such a fan of facist-sounding language (the one that really does my head in is calling America “the homeland”). It seems like a strange kind of cultural illiteracy: Bush adopts certain authoritarian tropes from fascism without quite knowing where they come from. Now, though, we have a much more entertaining version of a sort of similar thing: the Obama campaign’s Maoist æsthetic, which is reason enough to hope that Obama gets the nomination.posted by stammer at 1:37 AM on May 24, 2008 [6 favorites]
Why is Obama using a variant of the Freedom Road Socialist Party’s logo? Why do posters made by his supporters so often use the two-tone woodblock stylings of 1960s third-worldism? Not, I fear, because Obama actually is a Maoist, but perhaps because of a similar kind of historical amnesia to that of Bush. In the case of the Obama campaign, the æsthetic comes from a vague memory of a time when revolutionary political change really did seem possible, which never quite rises to the level of actually knowing what that movement for change was actually about.
I find the OBEY guy's poster creepy as fuck. Creepy, creepy, creepy. You don't want to associate Obama with Andre the Giant and Nixon on an overpriced t-shirt. The print with the tree and the "O"is very weak/corny -- it almost seems a Republican spoof on liberal tree huggers who don't use deodorant and sing Kumbaya.
This stuff also seems to be aimed at a constituency that's already more orless in the tank for Obama anyway.
I think the Obama campaign is generally very, very good at design (their website, the "O" thing), and has been very successful as making their candidate look both cool and non-creepy and above all American (face it: strange name that sounds like Bin Laden, grew up in strange Muslim country, once he got back he hung out with a very anti-American preacher for 25 years).
Considering how cool their guy can look when photographed well. I think that they should find someone as good as the late Jacques Lowe, or the late Cornell Capa, had them tail Obama 24/7 and start feeding the media a constant stream of images that show how cool, smiling, strong, and all-American their guy is.
The Kennedys understood that 100%. They had to overcome the Irish thing, Obama has to overcome the black thing. The Kennedys created an image of WASPy, upper class, stylish coolness (Hyannisport, touch football, khakis, bare feet, navy polo shirts, boat races, everybody tanned and with perfect white teeth) that still looks like the Ralph Lauren ads it has inspired. That's how the Kennedys made themselves look the opposite of the Irish stereotype and sold themselves to America (JFK was also an epic womanizer who got themselves photographed all the time with his beautiful kids and stunning wife, a man in terrible health photographed swimming, playing touch football, sailing, always tan as hell). Obama needs more of the same -- less angry black dudes ranting against America, less creepy posters from skater assholes, more rockstar appeal, and esp more All-American stuff. Less Indonesia, more Ralph Lauren. The Kennedys wrote the playbook. Just hire Bruce Weber already, for Chrissakes.
As great as Youtube is, still images continue to be extremely relevant.
posted by matteo at 2:12 AM on May 24, 2008 [15 favorites]
This stuff also seems to be aimed at a constituency that's already more orless in the tank for Obama anyway.
I think the Obama campaign is generally very, very good at design (their website, the "O" thing), and has been very successful as making their candidate look both cool and non-creepy and above all American (face it: strange name that sounds like Bin Laden, grew up in strange Muslim country, once he got back he hung out with a very anti-American preacher for 25 years).
Considering how cool their guy can look when photographed well. I think that they should find someone as good as the late Jacques Lowe, or the late Cornell Capa, had them tail Obama 24/7 and start feeding the media a constant stream of images that show how cool, smiling, strong, and all-American their guy is.
The Kennedys understood that 100%. They had to overcome the Irish thing, Obama has to overcome the black thing. The Kennedys created an image of WASPy, upper class, stylish coolness (Hyannisport, touch football, khakis, bare feet, navy polo shirts, boat races, everybody tanned and with perfect white teeth) that still looks like the Ralph Lauren ads it has inspired. That's how the Kennedys made themselves look the opposite of the Irish stereotype and sold themselves to America (JFK was also an epic womanizer who got themselves photographed all the time with his beautiful kids and stunning wife, a man in terrible health photographed swimming, playing touch football, sailing, always tan as hell). Obama needs more of the same -- less angry black dudes ranting against America, less creepy posters from skater assholes, more rockstar appeal, and esp more All-American stuff. Less Indonesia, more Ralph Lauren. The Kennedys wrote the playbook. Just hire Bruce Weber already, for Chrissakes.
As great as Youtube is, still images continue to be extremely relevant.
posted by matteo at 2:12 AM on May 24, 2008 [15 favorites]
I am now reading this post in Gotham. Fuck, I AM drinking the Kool-Aid.
posted by psmealey at 2:52 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by psmealey at 2:52 AM on May 24, 2008
Have you seen Hillary's pathetic Obama wannabe poster?
The description says:
Designed by Hollywood screenwriter Tony Puryear ("Eraser")
HOLY SHIT! Is there a limit to how many I can buy at once?!
Wow, reminds me of something.
posted by Happy Dave at 2:53 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
The description says:
Designed by Hollywood screenwriter Tony Puryear ("Eraser")
HOLY SHIT! Is there a limit to how many I can buy at once?!
Wow, reminds me of something.
posted by Happy Dave at 2:53 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Bush adopts certain authoritarian tropes from fascism without quite knowing where they come from.
Why are people still giving W the benefit of 10,000 doubts like that? Isn't that how we got here?
But fairly, "Homeland Security" predates Bush. Creepy, scary-as-hell term, but not his fault.
posted by rokusan at 3:10 AM on May 24, 2008
Why are people still giving W the benefit of 10,000 doubts like that? Isn't that how we got here?
But fairly, "Homeland Security" predates Bush. Creepy, scary-as-hell term, but not his fault.
posted by rokusan at 3:10 AM on May 24, 2008
I find the OBEY guy's poster creepy as fuck.
I do, too. And yet, I still think it's awesome and I would love to get a copy. Why do I respond so strongly to that poster (and what does that make me, I wonder)? Shepard Fairey posters = Rorschach tests for closet authoritarians? (I really hope not.)
posted by longdaysjourney at 3:37 AM on May 24, 2008
I do, too. And yet, I still think it's awesome and I would love to get a copy. Why do I respond so strongly to that poster (and what does that make me, I wonder)? Shepard Fairey posters = Rorschach tests for closet authoritarians? (I really hope not.)
posted by longdaysjourney at 3:37 AM on May 24, 2008
Andre the Giant for president!
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:45 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:45 AM on May 24, 2008
I find the logic in stammer's link totally bizzare, but common among design types. Why should design neccessarily follow ideaology. Just because I think that the Soviets and the Nazis had great design aesthtics doesn't mean i support them in any way. Hell I love the Hezbollah logo, can't really stand their politics.
posted by afu at 4:17 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by afu at 4:17 AM on May 24, 2008
Warhol's Vote McGovern is still the best poster, too bad it didn't work.
posted by R. Mutt at 5:13 AM on May 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by R. Mutt at 5:13 AM on May 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Good to see Scott Hansen on the come up. I used to talk to him years ago on a message board and bought a few of his prints.
posted by iamck at 7:02 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by iamck at 7:02 AM on May 24, 2008
Any other Obama supporters that find the PROGRESS poster just a tad creepy? Perhaps the aesthetic of that poster is just too close to communist propaganda, with its empty promises embodied in single words that meant nothing in the long run. It also somehow ties the noble virtues embodied by Obama's platform to the branding and cult of personality around the man. Just... ick. Too Mao, too Stalin, too Lenin.
Anyone else? Just checkin'...
posted by rhys at 7:12 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Anyone else? Just checkin'...
posted by rhys at 7:12 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
and I mean both progress posters, the headshot one and the shiny-happy-people around the tree one.
posted by rhys at 7:15 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by rhys at 7:15 AM on May 24, 2008
... this is the hippest campaign I've ever seen at any level. Seeing it in a presidential race is pretty damn shocking.
Do you mean that in a good way or in a despairing way? Just curious.
(rhys - yes, absolutely.)
posted by IndigoJones at 7:16 AM on May 24, 2008
Do you mean that in a good way or in a despairing way? Just curious.
(rhys - yes, absolutely.)
posted by IndigoJones at 7:16 AM on May 24, 2008
You want propaganda? In the "screenprinted poster" link, change the blue to olive green, reverse the R's, toss a sickle and hammer up in the corner, and you've got yourself a nice little poster or T-shirt to sell on LGF. Once any kind of propaganda becomes acceptable, it is all acceptable.
posted by Pastabagel at 7:52 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by Pastabagel at 7:52 AM on May 24, 2008
Propaganda has been hip since the Spanish Civil War. Visca POUM, etc.
posted by WPW at 7:54 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by WPW at 7:54 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Any other Obama supporters that find the PROGRESS poster just a tad creepy?
Definitely creepy.
But the shiny-happy-tree one sure is purdy.
posted by hecho de la basura at 7:58 AM on May 24, 2008
Definitely creepy.
But the shiny-happy-tree one sure is purdy.
posted by hecho de la basura at 7:58 AM on May 24, 2008
But the shiny-happy-tree one sure is purdy.
Yeah, I like it too. I'm not gonna beanplate it. It's visually appealing, and I think that's the point. You've got to catch the eye and draw people in viscerally before many of them will even hear or think about anything you're saying.
posted by cashman at 8:04 AM on May 24, 2008
Yeah, I like it too. I'm not gonna beanplate it. It's visually appealing, and I think that's the point. You've got to catch the eye and draw people in viscerally before many of them will even hear or think about anything you're saying.
posted by cashman at 8:04 AM on May 24, 2008
ess angry black dudes ranting against America, less creepy posters from skater assholes, more rockstar appeal, and esp more All-American stuff. Less Indonesia, more Ralph Lauren.
Another one of Matteo's delusional comments about American politics. Although this one is almost more dreamlike and sureal then delusional. First of all, you don't live in the U.S. so how the hell do you know anything about the zeitgeist. Secondly, there is almost no way Obama can lose now. All he has to do to win is avoid any epic fuckups.
And thirdly Ralph Lauren? You seriously think the average U.S. voter is going to want to vote for a guy who purposefully wears Ralph Lauren? How well did Kerry's windsurfing go down, huh? I'm sure that made him look nice and rich and WASPy. Exactly what 21st voters go for.
Obama made a point during the Indiana primaries about only owning a couple suits, which his wife sews up when they get holes in 'em. Hillary Clinton was out there doing shots in dive bars.
Seriously, you make a lot of weird pronouncements about U.S. politics (always written in an absurd, authoritative voice) but this one takes is just about the oddest and most surreal. You're like the Steven C. Den Beste of democratic politics.
posted by delmoi at 8:18 AM on May 24, 2008 [8 favorites]
Another one of Matteo's delusional comments about American politics. Although this one is almost more dreamlike and sureal then delusional. First of all, you don't live in the U.S. so how the hell do you know anything about the zeitgeist. Secondly, there is almost no way Obama can lose now. All he has to do to win is avoid any epic fuckups.
And thirdly Ralph Lauren? You seriously think the average U.S. voter is going to want to vote for a guy who purposefully wears Ralph Lauren? How well did Kerry's windsurfing go down, huh? I'm sure that made him look nice and rich and WASPy. Exactly what 21st voters go for.
Obama made a point during the Indiana primaries about only owning a couple suits, which his wife sews up when they get holes in 'em. Hillary Clinton was out there doing shots in dive bars.
Seriously, you make a lot of weird pronouncements about U.S. politics (always written in an absurd, authoritative voice) but this one takes is just about the oddest and most surreal. You're like the Steven C. Den Beste of democratic politics.
posted by delmoi at 8:18 AM on May 24, 2008 [8 favorites]
I think matteo's point about these posters appealing to people that already support Obama instead of "uncommitted independents" is accurate.
The new poster is on sale for $70, though. This poster series looks more like a fundraising tool than a outreach effort.
posted by Richard Daly at 8:20 AM on May 24, 2008
The new poster is on sale for $70, though. This poster series looks more like a fundraising tool than a outreach effort.
posted by Richard Daly at 8:20 AM on May 24, 2008
I just read bits of that Slate article and it makes me think how insignificant graphic design is. Look at Michael Beirut crapping on the McCain logo from a great height and see how all his supporters give a damn. But maybe that's to give graphic design responsibility it didn't ask for, maybe this sort of visual representation isn't meant to be as articulate as a speech; it's meant to reaffirm your opinions, increase your comfort with the choices you've made, synchronise your emotions with your preferences. Which is why I hate it so much. How can Obama's campaign transcend political divisions or associations if it won't even transcend visual ones?
I think aping previously revolutionary associations and techniques is an incredibly cynical thing to do, I think that when I see fashion or music labels do it, I think it's even worse when political supporters do it. I like Obama, but this puts me off.
posted by doobiedoo at 8:28 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think aping previously revolutionary associations and techniques is an incredibly cynical thing to do, I think that when I see fashion or music labels do it, I think it's even worse when political supporters do it. I like Obama, but this puts me off.
posted by doobiedoo at 8:28 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
I really have to wonder why a man who is all about "change" would resort to the old fashioned designs for his posters. That Hansen poster just screams Jimmy Carter to me.
posted by Dave Faris at 8:33 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 8:33 AM on May 24, 2008
The "Progress" poster reminds me of the upbeat scary futures of Zardoz and Logan's Run.
posted by johngoren at 8:35 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by johngoren at 8:35 AM on May 24, 2008
The tree thing doesn't work at all for me. Maybe I've been on teh Intarwebs too longs, but it's got that goatse vibe going against it. Even without that, it's too generic, which is why, for me, the Fairey poster works. It's selling Obama the man, not just some concept. It's relationship to propaganda posters in the past comes off as ironic; a nod that all politics works at that political machine level, but we can also recognize the aesthetic in it, too.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:45 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:45 AM on May 24, 2008
I love both Obama posters. I don't get a 'creepy' vibe from it at all.
posted by empath at 8:58 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by empath at 8:58 AM on May 24, 2008
It's selling Obama the man, not just some concept.
Hahahahhhaaaahaha.
Oh, that's HIL-larious. I love non-irony.
posted by humannaire at 8:58 AM on May 24, 2008
Hahahahhhaaaahaha.
Oh, that's HIL-larious. I love non-irony.
posted by humannaire at 8:58 AM on May 24, 2008
I love both Obama posters. I don't get a 'creepy' vibe from it at all.
posted by empath
Eponysterical!
posted by humannaire at 9:00 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by empath
Eponysterical!
posted by humannaire at 9:00 AM on May 24, 2008
This stuff also seems to be aimed at a constituency that's already more orless in the tank for Obama anyway.
Only if said costituency gets to the polls and actually casts ballots. Basic but important.
posted by notreally at 9:54 AM on May 24, 2008
afu, it seems straightforward to me. People have associations. If I see you using nazi or communist design language I'm going to wonder what you mean by the connection. Assuming that it's just some "abstract" design appreciation is not going to be way up on my list because (1) that's not what most designers do, it's generally intentional to evoke associations with images and (2) the idea of abstract style divorced from history is a bit bankrupt.
I'm no expert but it's not a priori clear to me that you could just switch around these design languages say of the communists and the fascists because say its just historical contingency which one ended up with which designer.
I'm not sure what you're saying exactly about the Hezbollah logo. I mean you could appreciate design whose politics you oppose but that would suggest you couldn't necessarily adopt it either. Co-opt it maybe but it's an upraised fist with a rifle in it. It's a powerful image but laden with history as much as design. I can easily see the sort of mao t shirt hipsters trying to co-opt it but say you replace the rifle with somethin like I dunno a solar panel say, you're obviously drawing a connection to the source, saying hey I think Hezbollah has an admirable spirit of revolution even while I disagree with their means. And if you really just sort of thought that they were sort of rebellious but didn't support either their means or their ends you'd probably be better off starting from scratch because your pro-Israel comrades in the solar power movement are probably going to be annoyed by your shirt.
posted by Wood at 10:30 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm no expert but it's not a priori clear to me that you could just switch around these design languages say of the communists and the fascists because say its just historical contingency which one ended up with which designer.
I'm not sure what you're saying exactly about the Hezbollah logo. I mean you could appreciate design whose politics you oppose but that would suggest you couldn't necessarily adopt it either. Co-opt it maybe but it's an upraised fist with a rifle in it. It's a powerful image but laden with history as much as design. I can easily see the sort of mao t shirt hipsters trying to co-opt it but say you replace the rifle with somethin like I dunno a solar panel say, you're obviously drawing a connection to the source, saying hey I think Hezbollah has an admirable spirit of revolution even while I disagree with their means. And if you really just sort of thought that they were sort of rebellious but didn't support either their means or their ends you'd probably be better off starting from scratch because your pro-Israel comrades in the solar power movement are probably going to be annoyed by your shirt.
posted by Wood at 10:30 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
You know, I think y'all are underthinking this. (The thing about Fairey's work is that it's not the work itself but what the work makes people think that is the real message.)
Yes, it's propaganda - it's propaganda that looks like propaganda.
Same as the Obey Giant posters, Fairey isn't telling you to literally obey the giant, but that images like this are a part of our culture and that just as there's no meaning to obey the giant, there's no reason NOT to question propaganda.
Similarly, with the Obama campaign, Progress, Hope, and Change are associated with Obama - but then you think back to the Obey Giant posters. Here is a candidate promising these things. Do we know he can deliver on them? Shouldn't we be questioning those promises, just as we question the idea of obeying Andre?
It is meta-propaganda in that I don't think Fairey is trying to get people to unthinkingly associate hope, change, and progress with the candidate. It is that I think Fairey is trying to get people to think about the process of association of positive terms with ANY candidate.
Quite frankly, the message here is: Obama is promising hope, change, progress. But think for yourself - and if he gets elected, hold him to it.
posted by BrianBoyko at 10:45 AM on May 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
Yes, it's propaganda - it's propaganda that looks like propaganda.
Same as the Obey Giant posters, Fairey isn't telling you to literally obey the giant, but that images like this are a part of our culture and that just as there's no meaning to obey the giant, there's no reason NOT to question propaganda.
Similarly, with the Obama campaign, Progress, Hope, and Change are associated with Obama - but then you think back to the Obey Giant posters. Here is a candidate promising these things. Do we know he can deliver on them? Shouldn't we be questioning those promises, just as we question the idea of obeying Andre?
It is meta-propaganda in that I don't think Fairey is trying to get people to unthinkingly associate hope, change, and progress with the candidate. It is that I think Fairey is trying to get people to think about the process of association of positive terms with ANY candidate.
Quite frankly, the message here is: Obama is promising hope, change, progress. But think for yourself - and if he gets elected, hold him to it.
posted by BrianBoyko at 10:45 AM on May 24, 2008 [3 favorites]
Propaganda is now officially hip.
You say this like it's a new thing. THe 'hipness' of exactly this style of propaganda dates back to early this century. The basic hip aspect of advertising in general has been a niche of design/marketing as long as i can remember as well. The only thing specific here is that a presidential campaign is trying to use 'hip' propaganda instead of general, everyday, good ol' US flag style propaganda. This will only work on a small portion of people, the ones who want to associate with hipness to start with, that is, the artsy college student type and some 20-something designers. But your average midwestern school teacher or mill worker or what have you will not care for this at all.
I find the logic in stammer's link totally bizzare, but common among design types. Why should design neccessarily follow ideaology. Just because I think that the Soviets and the Nazis had great design aesthtics doesn't mean i support them in any way. Hell I love the Hezbollah logo, can't really stand their politics.
Would you find it totally bizarre if they thought using specific symbols carried meaning over, rather than just being a pretty shape? That is, if I just like the way a swastika looks, should I expect I can use it in my political campaign and just explain to people who see it that I don't mean for it to have any nazi connotations? Even though of course a swastika has a long history as a symbol for many other things, in the west it will still be associated with aryan supremacy for the moment, and thinking those associations can just be turned off is silly. If someone introduced the peculiar march & salute of nazis, would we think it strange for flks to make the connection?
some people will think this is positive, that he's subliminally trying to get across a notion of "revolutionary". People who think communism was evil will think it's a bad sign that he's not more uncomfortable with the association. Some will not make the association, maybe because they're younger or less familiar with the history, but that doesn't mean it goes away for everyone. We think in symbols & connotations all the time (literally, it's practically all we -think- in)
posted by mdn at 11:45 AM on May 24, 2008
You say this like it's a new thing. THe 'hipness' of exactly this style of propaganda dates back to early this century. The basic hip aspect of advertising in general has been a niche of design/marketing as long as i can remember as well. The only thing specific here is that a presidential campaign is trying to use 'hip' propaganda instead of general, everyday, good ol' US flag style propaganda. This will only work on a small portion of people, the ones who want to associate with hipness to start with, that is, the artsy college student type and some 20-something designers. But your average midwestern school teacher or mill worker or what have you will not care for this at all.
I find the logic in stammer's link totally bizzare, but common among design types. Why should design neccessarily follow ideaology. Just because I think that the Soviets and the Nazis had great design aesthtics doesn't mean i support them in any way. Hell I love the Hezbollah logo, can't really stand their politics.
Would you find it totally bizarre if they thought using specific symbols carried meaning over, rather than just being a pretty shape? That is, if I just like the way a swastika looks, should I expect I can use it in my political campaign and just explain to people who see it that I don't mean for it to have any nazi connotations? Even though of course a swastika has a long history as a symbol for many other things, in the west it will still be associated with aryan supremacy for the moment, and thinking those associations can just be turned off is silly. If someone introduced the peculiar march & salute of nazis, would we think it strange for flks to make the connection?
some people will think this is positive, that he's subliminally trying to get across a notion of "revolutionary". People who think communism was evil will think it's a bad sign that he's not more uncomfortable with the association. Some will not make the association, maybe because they're younger or less familiar with the history, but that doesn't mean it goes away for everyone. We think in symbols & connotations all the time (literally, it's practically all we -think- in)
posted by mdn at 11:45 AM on May 24, 2008
your average midwestern school teacher or mill worker or what have you will not care for this at all.
Holy crap that a big ass brush you got there.
posted by cashman at 11:59 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Holy crap that a big ass brush you got there.
posted by cashman at 11:59 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
I couldn't find an example on the McCain site, but someone locally here has made a few "Progress" posters, with a shoddily-done McCain portrait in place of Obama. I mean, a direct rip-off of the whole idea and design, except that the color separation wasn't done as nicely on the portrait. I should have taken a picture of it.
posted by glycolized at 12:01 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by glycolized at 12:01 PM on May 24, 2008
Calling the poster propaganda is a bit of, well frankly, it's bullshit. Obama's campaign poster is 'propaganda' as much as a commercial for milk is. The New York Times calling the invasion of Iraq justified? That's propaganda. Pretty much anything involving the occupation of Iraq at Fox News is propaganda.
A well-made campaign poster by a popular graphic artist being called propaganda does a disservice to all the hardworking individuals who pour their hearts into misinforming the public.
posted by mullingitover at 12:03 PM on May 24, 2008 [7 favorites]
A well-made campaign poster by a popular graphic artist being called propaganda does a disservice to all the hardworking individuals who pour their hearts into misinforming the public.
posted by mullingitover at 12:03 PM on May 24, 2008 [7 favorites]
humannaire, I see what you mean. What I really meant was they're selling the concept of the man rather than the concept of some idea the man might be aligning himself with. :-)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:59 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:59 PM on May 24, 2008
Look at this fucking candidate.
I have a sudden urge to download an Obama rally sign and replace the "we can believe in" with "the fuck out of shit."
posted by aqhong at 1:10 PM on May 24, 2008
I have a sudden urge to download an Obama rally sign and replace the "we can believe in" with "the fuck out of shit."
posted by aqhong at 1:10 PM on May 24, 2008
Every time I see that PROGRESS poster I expect to hear OUTBREAK OUTBREAK OUTBREAK.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:31 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:31 PM on May 24, 2008
Are we talking about propaganda or packaging here?
Taking a page from medieval heraldry (of all places) you pretty much get to pick a light element (yellow or white) and a dark element (red, blue, green, purple or black). Pick one or two of each, avoid putting lights on lights or darks on darks. Try not to over-complicate things. Have fun.
That their heraldry / flag / logos all kind of go together does not suggest a secret link between England, Mao Zedong, Shell Oil and McDonalds.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:43 PM on May 24, 2008
Taking a page from medieval heraldry (of all places) you pretty much get to pick a light element (yellow or white) and a dark element (red, blue, green, purple or black). Pick one or two of each, avoid putting lights on lights or darks on darks. Try not to over-complicate things. Have fun.
That their heraldry / flag / logos all kind of go together does not suggest a secret link between England, Mao Zedong, Shell Oil and McDonalds.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:43 PM on May 24, 2008
Holy crap that a big ass brush you got there.
You're assuming caring about this is "good" and it is demeaning to say people won't care about it. But there are people out there who actually don't care much one way or another how "hip" the posters of a candidate are.
And I didn't say there couldn't be hipster schoolteachers and millworkers, just that there do exist those "average" americans with families and ordinary jobs, those non-hipster people who just want a president who can work on jobs, health care costs, social security, etc. A lot of those people won't be impressed by this, or if they do care will generally either find it vaguely elitist/urban or will have a negative association with communism.
so it seems like preaching to the converted and possibly making trouble for himself with middle roaders (I'd bet some potential crossover voters would be a little turned off by the connotations).
posted by mdn at 1:44 PM on May 24, 2008
You're assuming caring about this is "good" and it is demeaning to say people won't care about it. But there are people out there who actually don't care much one way or another how "hip" the posters of a candidate are.
And I didn't say there couldn't be hipster schoolteachers and millworkers, just that there do exist those "average" americans with families and ordinary jobs, those non-hipster people who just want a president who can work on jobs, health care costs, social security, etc. A lot of those people won't be impressed by this, or if they do care will generally either find it vaguely elitist/urban or will have a negative association with communism.
so it seems like preaching to the converted and possibly making trouble for himself with middle roaders (I'd bet some potential crossover voters would be a little turned off by the connotations).
posted by mdn at 1:44 PM on May 24, 2008
I don't know about the mill worker front, but having grown up in the midwest around lots of teachers, I'm going to say I think you're wrong. I see what you're trying to get at in terms of somebody possibly not noticing how cool the graphics are, but at the same time a lot of teachers pay attention to details and appreciate solid presentation.
And I think this is solid presentation, and that you're wrong. I love that you said "making trouble" though, like somebody will read over the policies on the website and think, "that's pretty good, but whoa, I don't like that shade of Melon. Oh Barack...you're in trouble with me."
posted by cashman at 2:06 PM on May 24, 2008
And I think this is solid presentation, and that you're wrong. I love that you said "making trouble" though, like somebody will read over the policies on the website and think, "that's pretty good, but whoa, I don't like that shade of Melon. Oh Barack...you're in trouble with me."
posted by cashman at 2:06 PM on May 24, 2008
aqhong writes "I have a sudden urge to download an Obama rally sign and replace the 'we can believe in' with 'the fuck out of shit.'"
funny, me too.
posted by mullingitover at 6:08 PM on May 24, 2008
funny, me too.
posted by mullingitover at 6:08 PM on May 24, 2008
matteo, Obama has to overcome the black thing.
He's been heroically communicating a few simple core messages (hope, change, competence (maybe that last one is my own wishful thinking)) that come to mind faster than race. As far as I (another clueless non-american) can tell he really is smart, cool, and capable of being a rockstar... but I think he's doing something even better. He's preempting it with better messages. (This probably sounds like a silly paean to "transcending" race, which I truly don't mean to write, but am tired and addled.)
posted by ~ at 8:30 PM on May 24, 2008
He's been heroically communicating a few simple core messages (hope, change, competence (maybe that last one is my own wishful thinking)) that come to mind faster than race. As far as I (another clueless non-american) can tell he really is smart, cool, and capable of being a rockstar... but I think he's doing something even better. He's preempting it with better messages. (This probably sounds like a silly paean to "transcending" race, which I truly don't mean to write, but am tired and addled.)
posted by ~ at 8:30 PM on May 24, 2008
But your average midwestern school teacher or mill worker or what have you will not care for this at all.
Dunno, I live in an average midwestern town, in a borderline Republican state, and the school teachers and GM workers seemed to back him pretty solidly. The Midwest isn't where his problem is, or has been, anyway. What he may need is something that has graphic and lexical messaging more specific to the West or South. I'm not a fan of inauthenticity -- it's something Obama would wear like a tank commander's radio cap. But some thought about why he's weak in those states would be worthwhile. I'm kinda sure they'll be doing it, though.
Some of the Obama stuff leaves me cold. I admire the design of the Fairey poster, but I'm not sure I'm the intended recipient of its ambiguous and deeply layered message. Or maybe I am, and Fairey is cynically showing his understanding of the process in which he works. Propaganda, after all, used to be a positive word.
My thought is that maybe Obama should investigate a NASCAR sponsorship. And try to get somebody to write him some country music YouTubes. Hit 'em square on in the culturalbackwater backside. Find a word in the same general logos as CHANGE, HOPE, and PROGRESS, but one that isn't scary and different like those words are to some folks. Try to work out how that observation about bitter rural people (and boy, are some of them bitter, but the word I would use is closer to scared, or even cynical) could have been parried into an asset instead of a gaffe. I don't think VALUES is the one he wants to use, but it's the Kansas problem writ large and it isn't just Obama who has trouble crossing that particular road.
posted by dhartung at 11:46 PM on May 24, 2008
Dunno, I live in an average midwestern town, in a borderline Republican state, and the school teachers and GM workers seemed to back him pretty solidly. The Midwest isn't where his problem is, or has been, anyway. What he may need is something that has graphic and lexical messaging more specific to the West or South. I'm not a fan of inauthenticity -- it's something Obama would wear like a tank commander's radio cap. But some thought about why he's weak in those states would be worthwhile. I'm kinda sure they'll be doing it, though.
Some of the Obama stuff leaves me cold. I admire the design of the Fairey poster, but I'm not sure I'm the intended recipient of its ambiguous and deeply layered message. Or maybe I am, and Fairey is cynically showing his understanding of the process in which he works. Propaganda, after all, used to be a positive word.
My thought is that maybe Obama should investigate a NASCAR sponsorship. And try to get somebody to write him some country music YouTubes. Hit 'em square on in the cultural
posted by dhartung at 11:46 PM on May 24, 2008
And I think this is solid presentation, and that you're wrong. I love that you said "making trouble" though, like somebody will read over the policies on the website and think, "that's pretty good, but whoa, I don't like that shade of Melon. Oh Barack...you're in trouble with me."
Well, maybe images and graphics have no impact, but people are often slightly affected by symbolism even if they won't admit it or even notice it consciously. Like I said above, some people probably like this because it gives an underlying connotation of "revolutionary". But those crossover votes may find themselves sort of reconsidering McCain if this becomes a familiar representation of Obama.
Dunno, I live in an average midwestern town, in a borderline Republican state, and the school teachers and GM workers seemed to back him pretty solidly. The Midwest isn't where his problem is, or has been, anyway.
I know, and this is an important part of his campaign - he's got to win the "obama republicans" like reagan got the "reagan democrats", and he was hitting the right notes with them with talk about hope and bipartisanship and religion being a good thing, and so on. But his religious background has gotten kinda soiled, and if he pushes too far on the "cool, hip, intellectual" stuff it could cost him on the other side.
This specifically is both pushing the "cool hip" and "don't mind commie associations", which I think is somewhat risky at the national level. Maybe it's not at the national level, maybe it's not big enough for anyone to notice, maybe it won't make a difference, but I feel like it sort of shows a potential disconnect. Hopefully it's not, but the fact that he's popular in your local niche is really not evidence of his chances across the country. Remember this is the country that elected Bush twice.
posted by mdn at 2:13 PM on May 25, 2008
Well, maybe images and graphics have no impact, but people are often slightly affected by symbolism even if they won't admit it or even notice it consciously. Like I said above, some people probably like this because it gives an underlying connotation of "revolutionary". But those crossover votes may find themselves sort of reconsidering McCain if this becomes a familiar representation of Obama.
Dunno, I live in an average midwestern town, in a borderline Republican state, and the school teachers and GM workers seemed to back him pretty solidly. The Midwest isn't where his problem is, or has been, anyway.
I know, and this is an important part of his campaign - he's got to win the "obama republicans" like reagan got the "reagan democrats", and he was hitting the right notes with them with talk about hope and bipartisanship and religion being a good thing, and so on. But his religious background has gotten kinda soiled, and if he pushes too far on the "cool, hip, intellectual" stuff it could cost him on the other side.
This specifically is both pushing the "cool hip" and "don't mind commie associations", which I think is somewhat risky at the national level. Maybe it's not at the national level, maybe it's not big enough for anyone to notice, maybe it won't make a difference, but I feel like it sort of shows a potential disconnect. Hopefully it's not, but the fact that he's popular in your local niche is really not evidence of his chances across the country. Remember this is the country that elected Bush twice.
posted by mdn at 2:13 PM on May 25, 2008
I couldn't find links to the 5 and 50 megapixel downloads. Where are the high-res images? Bueller?
posted by ryanrs at 4:46 PM on May 25, 2008
posted by ryanrs at 4:46 PM on May 25, 2008
Once any kind of propaganda becomes acceptable, it is all acceptable.
You say this like propaganda, or, to be more accurate, public relations and advertising, which is what propaganda has evolved into, isn't omnipresent, doesn't infuse and interpenetrate our daily lives. It does, and has, for a long time.
Many people have gotten good at playing the metagame and approaching it with irony. Many have not. The tension between these two groups drives a whole lot more of the ol' secular capitalist kulturkampf than many seem to acknowledge.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:11 PM on May 25, 2008
You say this like propaganda, or, to be more accurate, public relations and advertising, which is what propaganda has evolved into, isn't omnipresent, doesn't infuse and interpenetrate our daily lives. It does, and has, for a long time.
Many people have gotten good at playing the metagame and approaching it with irony. Many have not. The tension between these two groups drives a whole lot more of the ol' secular capitalist kulturkampf than many seem to acknowledge.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:11 PM on May 25, 2008
Every time I see the phases "Let's be honest," or "Face it," at the beginning of an article, I know someone is trying to masquerade their opinion as fact.
posted by Poagao at 2:20 AM on May 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Poagao at 2:20 AM on May 26, 2008 [1 favorite]
Propaganda? I don't see much of that here. What I see is Obama religion
posted by MetaMan at 1:33 PM on May 26, 2008
posted by MetaMan at 1:33 PM on May 26, 2008
MetaMan writes "Propaganda? I don't see much of that here. What I see is Obama religion "
MetaMan, you need to accept Obama into your heart and pray for his forgiveness. We have all sinned and fallen short of his glory, but he has a plan for us. If you repent, even you can be saved.
posted by mullingitover at 5:00 PM on May 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
MetaMan, you need to accept Obama into your heart and pray for his forgiveness. We have all sinned and fallen short of his glory, but he has a plan for us. If you repent, even you can be saved.
posted by mullingitover at 5:00 PM on May 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Ha! This is now being linked in by Andrew Sullivan's blog (indirectly).
posted by lattiboy at 3:39 PM on May 28, 2008
posted by lattiboy at 3:39 PM on May 28, 2008
those posters are very cool, but i would encourage everyone to do what i do - everytime i feel the urge to donate to one of the candidates, i pull up doctors without borders and donate there, instead. It is 100x more relevant and meaningful. Just an anti-koolaid (all flavors) thought.
posted by peptide at 2:58 AM on May 29, 2008
posted by peptide at 2:58 AM on May 29, 2008
My thought is that maybe Obama should investigate a NASCAR sponsorship. And try to get somebody to write him some country music YouTubes.
Cowboy Obama.
posted by mattbucher at 8:54 AM on May 30, 2008
Cowboy Obama.
posted by mattbucher at 8:54 AM on May 30, 2008
Cultural Revolution-era art (stuff like this) was officially hip starting in the late sixties!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:31 AM on May 24
Bull shit. Realist art has been hip since it began at the end of the 19th century. It's been used in political movements, particularly those involving the young left since then. That goes for the US, China, Russia, Germany, UK, the Middle East, you name it!
It's not propaganda if there isn't a message included, otherwise its just a poster in a certain style. "Propaganda Poster" does not have the same meaning as "Socialist Realist Art".
posted by Pollomacho at 9:07 AM on May 30, 2008
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:31 AM on May 24
Bull shit. Realist art has been hip since it began at the end of the 19th century. It's been used in political movements, particularly those involving the young left since then. That goes for the US, China, Russia, Germany, UK, the Middle East, you name it!
It's not propaganda if there isn't a message included, otherwise its just a poster in a certain style. "Propaganda Poster" does not have the same meaning as "Socialist Realist Art".
posted by Pollomacho at 9:07 AM on May 30, 2008
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The last sentence in the "screenprinted poster" link made me laugh, too. Want.
posted by rokusan at 11:48 PM on May 23, 2008