Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Morton Sobell -- transcripts, facts revealed

September 11, 2008 9:33 PM

Morton Sobel, co-defendant with Julius Rosenberg, acknowledges spying. Confirms Julius Rosenberg participated in spying, Ethel Rosenberg likely framed. National Archives releases transcripts.
posted by ClaudiaCenter (22 comments total)

Semi-related: Jairus (known outside Metafilter as Ad-ver-sary) took someone else's bassline and turned it into a haunting song about Ethel Rosenberg's hideously botched execution. Filled with a lot of other voice samples that really communicate the greater context of their trial.
posted by Ryvar at 9:44 PM on September 11, 2008 [2 favorites]

Latest disclosures follow other Rosenberg-related events, including release of Venona papers, and responses by Rosenberg descendants. See Response of Michael Meerapol to Venona Papers, Heir to an Execution by granddaughter Ivy Meerapol.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:46 PM on September 11, 2008

And previously (50th anniversary of Rosenberg executions).
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:49 PM on September 11, 2008

FWIW

I always thought these two got a bad rap.

While it happened many years before I was born, I always had a feeling that the powers that were just needed to say "Jewish Communist" enough times over and over again, and they were done for.

Another angle that has struck me, is if they were guilty, what was their motivation? I can look at the last eight years and think maybe somebody really screwed the pooch on this one, but it doesn't make me want to sell state secrets.

Idealism is a strange thing. It seems to waver between being the true measure of a person, to the butt of a joke.

I guess as long as you believe strongly, it doesn't matter what side of second base you land on.

if there is any lesson, it should be this sort of thing should never happen again. Can't believe the had the luck to not being in Texas
posted by timsteil at 10:18 PM on September 11, 2008

Oy, poor Ethel. Enjoy this bit of theatrical vengeance.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:45 PM on September 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile, what everyone ignores is that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were heroes. What ensured the survival of the world during the Cold War was Mutually Assured Destruction, no matter how loath some people are to admit it. If only one side had had the Bomb, there is a lot more likelihood that it would have been used--for instance, in Korea or Vietnam.

(The USSR would have developed it on its own, it's true. But it would have taken longer.)
posted by nasreddin at 11:46 PM on September 11, 2008 [1 favorite]

I imagine Meryl Streep's Ethel Rosenberg standing in a corner during the Sobel interview, slowly shaking her head.

Soooo when are other allegedly-innocent cause celebre prisoners going to get their Sobel treatment? coughcoughmumiacough
posted by micketymoc at 11:50 PM on September 11, 2008

.

Here lies my willingness to believe my own instincts regarding what is good and true. I slew it when this news came out a few years ago.

Every now and again it mewls from the grave, and I must excavate it from the section of my heart labeled 'cemetery' and deal it sharp blows with the point of my shovel, clotting blood flying form the point as thuds counterpoint with unformed pleas for mercy.
posted by mwhybark at 12:28 AM on September 12, 2008

Meanwhile, what everyone ignores is that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were heroes.

The USSR would have developed it on its own, it's true. But it would have taken longer.

Actually had the Soviets remained on their path of independent development - and not diverted their energies into trying to copy the American design based on the information provoded them by the Rosenbergs - those rat bastards would have constructed a nuclear bomb much sooner.

If only one side had had the Bomb, there is a lot more likelihood that it would have been used--for instance, in Korea or Vietnam.

Truman stopped MacAuthur from nuking China and widening that war. Fear of nuclear retaliation from the communist international had nothing to do with it.

The MAD concept is fiction. To imagine that generals give a damn about retaliation on civilians is the fantasy that keeps us civilians docile and stops us from coming to our senses and taking these dangerous toys away from those dangerous people.
posted by three blind mice at 12:40 AM on September 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

There were other individuals that thought that the atomic bomb was too important
to trust to the government of the US. General Groves scoffed at Harold Ickes suggestion
that the results of the Manhattan Project be disclosed to the world. Robert Oppenheimer
opposed nuclear proliferation after he helped develop the atomic bomb.
posted by the Real Dan at 1:00 AM on September 12, 2008

And Roy Cohn knew Ethel was innocent (and that Greenglass was lying when he implicated his sister Ethel), and Cohn sent her to the chair anyway.

But Julius was a spy and traitor -- I can't disagree more strongly with nasreddin -- giving the bomb to Stalin threatened the all the people of the world, and kept the people of Eastern Europe longer under the boot.
posted by orthogonality at 1:48 AM on September 12, 2008

.

Here lies my willingness to believe my own instincts regarding what is good and true.

Ethel and Julius thought they were being good and true, I suppose. And the trial was rotten, though Ethel was factually innocent of the charges and Julius was factually guilty. The process matters, this case reminds me.

But yes, what a blow it was to learn the truth.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 2:19 AM on September 12, 2008

Julius never gave the bomb to Stalin and certainly is no hero. He kept his mouth shut and let his innocent wife be put to death. Classy.
posted by caddis at 6:26 AM on September 12, 2008

"Heroes"? Not to this red-diaper baby: my parents were members of the CPUSA then. I was six years old and didn't understand what it was all about; but, I do remember my mother and other party moms worrying about "the poor little Rosenberg boys." (They were adopted and their last name changed.)
posted by Carol Anne at 6:56 AM on September 12, 2008

"In the interview with The New York Times, Mr. Sobell ... was asked whether, as an electrical engineer, he turned over military secrets to the Soviets during World War II when they were considered allies of the United States and were bearing the brunt of Nazi brutality. Was he, in fact, a spy?"

Trust the NYT to sneak an editorial into a question. A simple "Were you a spy?" would have done the job. The context ("to the Soviets during World War II when they were considered allies of the United States and were bearing the brunt of Nazi brutality") is irrelevant to the charge per se.
posted by MarshallPoe at 7:35 AM on September 12, 2008

The context ("to the Soviets during World War II when they were considered allies of the United States and were bearing the brunt of Nazi brutality") is irrelevant to the charge per se.

I'm not so sure about that. We've jailed Americans caught spying for other allies (such as Israel), but not executed them.

The USSR was an ally during WWII.
posted by QIbHom at 8:45 AM on September 12, 2008

For a well written, thinly veiled fictional take on the Rosenberg case, read The Book Of Daniel.
posted by lalochezia at 9:01 AM on September 12, 2008

giving the bomb to Stalin threatened the all the people of the world, and kept the people of Eastern Europe longer under the boot.

Justify this.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:55 AM on September 12, 2008

Oy, poor Ethel. Enjoy this bit of theatrical vengeance.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur

Cohn wins in the end though. He gets her to sing.
posted by scope the lobe at 6:57 PM on September 12, 2008

WHACK! WHACK!

THUD!

aieeee aggh

WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!
posted by mwhybark at 10:17 PM on September 12, 2008

Father Was a Spy, Sons Conclude With Regret
posted by Carol Anne at 1:57 PM on September 17, 2008

Thanks for the update, Carol Anne.

(mwhybark -- ???)
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 6:13 PM on September 17, 2008