Orson Scott Card on the American Media and the Bush derangement syndrome.
October 22, 2008 8:02 AM Subscribe
An article on the state of American media. Orson Scott Card the author, speaks out about the presidential race, GWB and the state of America media.
This post was deleted for the following reason: "Orson Scott Card holds forth!" threads tend to go pretty damn badly around here, and a read through this op-ed suggests this isn't going to be the exception to that rule. -- cortex
Nice to see Card's still writing fiction.
Honestly, he has some points, but I think there's plenty of blame to go around.
And it's damn easy to point out how things went to shit, a bit harder to predict the same. Something about hindsight being 20/20.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2008
Honestly, he has some points, but I think there's plenty of blame to go around.
And it's damn easy to point out how things went to shit, a bit harder to predict the same. Something about hindsight being 20/20.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2008
This is going to be AWESOME!
posted by pullayup at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by pullayup at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
....so he can bash Democrats, basically.
The left-slagging starts early and continues throughout.
posted by mephron at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2008
The left-slagging starts early and continues throughout.
posted by mephron at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2008
That's pretty annoying. Why is it that intelligent people continue to insist that complex issues are one-sided and black & white? Certainly those loan programs, and the irresponsibility of American consumers are a huge part of the issue and should be rightly discussed. But so is the lack of regulation. To claim that it's only one issue and not a combination of many makes a person seem either stupid or political - I am not sure which is worse.
posted by xmutex at 8:10 AM on October 22, 2008
posted by xmutex at 8:10 AM on October 22, 2008
Blah, fuck that guy. Haven't we debated this idiot enough?
Also, he's wrong:
It was a direct result of the political decision, back in the late 1990s, to loosen the rules of lending so that home loans would be more accessible to poor people. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were authorized to approve risky loans.
This is false, or at least seriously confused. The definition of a subprime mortgage is one that isn't good enough for Fannie or Freddie. From wikipedia:
The conservative fixation on these two companies as the main culprits is as dishonest as it is pointless. The hope is that the public will come to associate those two companies with the democrats, because they had been closer to the democrats historically. But in this decade they did extensive lobbying with the republicans as well. In fact, up until the time they were federalized a couple months ago, they had been paying McCain's campaign director (though the lobbying shop he founded) $15,000 a month to do nothing, just as a part of their program to "spread the wealth around" to influential republican lobbyists all the time.
They also had nothing to do with the credit default swaps that bankrupted AIG and (I think) Lehman Brothers.
posted by delmoi at 8:12 AM on October 22, 2008
Also, he's wrong:
It was a direct result of the political decision, back in the late 1990s, to loosen the rules of lending so that home loans would be more accessible to poor people. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were authorized to approve risky loans.
This is false, or at least seriously confused. The definition of a subprime mortgage is one that isn't good enough for Fannie or Freddie. From wikipedia:
Subprime could also refer to a security for which a return above the "prime" rate is received, also known as C-paper. In the United States, mortgage lending specifically, the term "subprime" can be applied to "non conforming" loans, those that do not meet Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac guidelines, generally due to one of an array of factors...It is true at at some point they lowered their standards, but I believe that was was in the 21st century, and anyway. Fannie and Freddie never bought any subprime loans, by definition.
The conservative fixation on these two companies as the main culprits is as dishonest as it is pointless. The hope is that the public will come to associate those two companies with the democrats, because they had been closer to the democrats historically. But in this decade they did extensive lobbying with the republicans as well. In fact, up until the time they were federalized a couple months ago, they had been paying McCain's campaign director (though the lobbying shop he founded) $15,000 a month to do nothing, just as a part of their program to "spread the wealth around" to influential republican lobbyists all the time.
They also had nothing to do with the credit default swaps that bankrupted AIG and (I think) Lehman Brothers.
posted by delmoi at 8:12 AM on October 22, 2008
Orson Scott Card is a Democrat
Really? Is that just to make him sound more credible when he dumps on liberals?
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:13 AM on October 22, 2008
Really? Is that just to make him sound more credible when he dumps on liberals?
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:13 AM on October 22, 2008
If anyone missed the past few Orson Scott Card posts, here's a quick MeFi search result link.
One question - Editor's note: Orson Scott Card is a Democrat and a newspaper columnist, and in this opinion piece he takes on both while lamenting the current state of journalism. -- has he completely cast aside his past as a writer of science fiction, or is the editor trying to make him look like a more reputable political writer?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:17 AM on October 22, 2008
One question - Editor's note: Orson Scott Card is a Democrat and a newspaper columnist, and in this opinion piece he takes on both while lamenting the current state of journalism. -- has he completely cast aside his past as a writer of science fiction, or is the editor trying to make him look like a more reputable political writer?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:17 AM on October 22, 2008
Sounds like Barney Frank turned down his clumsy advances at some social event and he's still sore about it.
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:18 AM on October 22, 2008
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:18 AM on October 22, 2008
Orson Scott Card is a Democrat
So is Joe Lieberman.
Yet when Nancy Pelosi accused the Bush administration and Republican deregulation of causing the crisis, you in the press did not hold her to account for her lie. Instead, you criticized Republicans who took offense at this lie and refused to vote for the bailout!
What? It's not the liar, but the victims of the lie who are to blame?
Well, them and the gays, amirite?
posted by quin at 8:19 AM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
So is Joe Lieberman.
Yet when Nancy Pelosi accused the Bush administration and Republican deregulation of causing the crisis, you in the press did not hold her to account for her lie. Instead, you criticized Republicans who took offense at this lie and refused to vote for the bailout!
What? It's not the liar, but the victims of the lie who are to blame?
Well, them and the gays, amirite?
posted by quin at 8:19 AM on October 22, 2008 [1 favorite]
Where to begin:
Bush and McCain had nothing to do with the Wall Street meltdown (re: rampant deregulation)? They were standing there scolding the Lehman and Merrill execs to pay more attention to their own little ponzi schemes?
George W. Bush didn't push the 700 billion bail-out to Wall Street execs through? And McCain didn't have a little hissy fit and rush back to his Arlington condo to pretend like he was a part of it? And while Bush and McCain made sure we socialized/communized the American financial sector, lil' biddy Sarah Palin told us Barack Obama was a "socialist" for wanting to repeal the highest end taxes to the 90's/Clinton levels? (Back when we all made money and had these nice things once in a while called "pay raises"?) But making sure AIG execs got their manicures was somehow the opposite of socialism?
ALAN GREENSPAN WAS WARNING US ABOUT THE DANGERS OF DEREGULATION? Huh? /puts finger up nose to the third knuckle.
OSC is the ultimate crank. Sorry dude, you wanted Bush for eight years, you got Bush for eight years. And now America is coming back to its senses because you, the Republican Party, and the sham of "Conservative" ideology has truly fucked up my country beyond all recognition.
Nice to see your day job is writing science fiction.
posted by bardic at 8:20 AM on October 22, 2008
Bush and McCain had nothing to do with the Wall Street meltdown (re: rampant deregulation)? They were standing there scolding the Lehman and Merrill execs to pay more attention to their own little ponzi schemes?
George W. Bush didn't push the 700 billion bail-out to Wall Street execs through? And McCain didn't have a little hissy fit and rush back to his Arlington condo to pretend like he was a part of it? And while Bush and McCain made sure we socialized/communized the American financial sector, lil' biddy Sarah Palin told us Barack Obama was a "socialist" for wanting to repeal the highest end taxes to the 90's/Clinton levels? (Back when we all made money and had these nice things once in a while called "pay raises"?) But making sure AIG execs got their manicures was somehow the opposite of socialism?
ALAN GREENSPAN WAS WARNING US ABOUT THE DANGERS OF DEREGULATION? Huh? /puts finger up nose to the third knuckle.
OSC is the ultimate crank. Sorry dude, you wanted Bush for eight years, you got Bush for eight years. And now America is coming back to its senses because you, the Republican Party, and the sham of "Conservative" ideology has truly fucked up my country beyond all recognition.
Nice to see your day job is writing science fiction.
posted by bardic at 8:20 AM on October 22, 2008
Nothing any Mormon says about any black person is credible.
“But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332
There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there [pre-existence] received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less. . . . There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:61, 65-66; emphasis added).
The Mormon religion has, for the past hundred and fifty years, been the most racist organization in America; there are no signs that Mormon anti-black prejudices are any better than they were since or before 1978.
Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin. . . . Noah's son married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood. . . . the negro are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concern. . . . " (Mormon Doctrine, 527-28; 1966 orig. ed).
Orson Scott Card is an anti-black activist and known racist, and he is attempting to use his meager credibility as an author of sophomoric science fiction to demean and denigrate those affected by poverty, chief among them being, you guessed it, African-Americans.
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." - Brigham Young
Delete this race-baiting piece of shit post; it is no better than a link to Stormfront.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:23 AM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
“But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332
There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there [pre-existence] received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less. . . . There were no neutrals in the war in Heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:61, 65-66; emphasis added).
The Mormon religion has, for the past hundred and fifty years, been the most racist organization in America; there are no signs that Mormon anti-black prejudices are any better than they were since or before 1978.
Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions impose on them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God, and his murder of Able being a black skin. . . . Noah's son married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood. . . . the negro are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concern. . . . " (Mormon Doctrine, 527-28; 1966 orig. ed).
Orson Scott Card is an anti-black activist and known racist, and he is attempting to use his meager credibility as an author of sophomoric science fiction to demean and denigrate those affected by poverty, chief among them being, you guessed it, African-Americans.
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." - Brigham Young
Delete this race-baiting piece of shit post; it is no better than a link to Stormfront.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:23 AM on October 22, 2008 [3 favorites]
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What a twit.
I understand he has a following as a fiction writer, but all I know of him are his right wing rants, which are about the same low-rent propaganda league as the TownHall website he quotes.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:08 AM on October 22, 2008