You got yourself on video selling drug paraphernalia.
April 5, 2009 6:24 PM Subscribe
Under Pennsylvanian state law, it's illegal to sell containers if the store owner "knows or should reasonably know" that the buyer intends to use them to package drugs. A confidential informant entered a convenience store to buy tiny ziplock bags at about 4:30 p.m. on Sept. 11, 2007. After making the purchase the Philadelphia PD Narcotics Field Unit raided the store for selling drug paraphernalia destroying the store's security system in the process and allegedly stealing money, batteries, cigarettes and food among other items. He's not the first one to make this complaint either.
That's some fine police work there, Lou.
posted by Ratio at 6:36 PM on April 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
posted by Ratio at 6:36 PM on April 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
This happened a year and a half ago. Why is it making news this week? Or more importantly, why is this making news this week without any discussion of the results of the investigation? Are they just starting the investigation now? Did the store owner only file this complaint recently?
posted by ErWenn at 6:45 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by ErWenn at 6:45 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
What do cops like that claim? Crip, Blood or Black Mafia?
posted by loquacious at 6:45 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 6:45 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
More and more, I like the idea of hidden recording devices which stream timestamped, GPS-stamped video and audio, from multiple angles, to another country's data haven. In retrospect, he should have had an obvious system, maybe a couple of big cameras with blinky lights and a pair of VCRs, which would distract from the serious system.
And, oh yeah, I almost forgot: all of these police officers should go to jail. There's really no decent excuse to shut off his cameras. Jail.
posted by adipocere at 6:47 PM on April 5, 2009 [16 favorites]
And, oh yeah, I almost forgot: all of these police officers should go to jail. There's really no decent excuse to shut off his cameras. Jail.
posted by adipocere at 6:47 PM on April 5, 2009 [16 favorites]
Then, after the officers arrested Duran and took him to jail, nearly $10,000 in cash and cartons of Marlboros and Newports were missing from the locked, unattended store, Duran alleges.
10,000 in cash? - what kind of a store keeps 10,000 in cash laying around?
i worked at a BUSY convenience store and gas station - we NEVER saw that much money in one day, even on xmas when we were one of the few places open in town
the police's story doesn't add up but neither does his
posted by pyramid termite at 6:51 PM on April 5, 2009
10,000 in cash? - what kind of a store keeps 10,000 in cash laying around?
i worked at a BUSY convenience store and gas station - we NEVER saw that much money in one day, even on xmas when we were one of the few places open in town
the police's story doesn't add up but neither does his
posted by pyramid termite at 6:51 PM on April 5, 2009
Obviously the store owner is not guilty because the police weren't going to be using the baggies to sell drugs.
posted by fuq at 6:53 PM on April 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
posted by fuq at 6:53 PM on April 5, 2009 [13 favorites]
Look, if we let tiny ziplock baggies be sold openly on the street, next they'll be selling rubbermaid resealable dishes.
posted by DU at 6:58 PM on April 5, 2009 [18 favorites]
posted by DU at 6:58 PM on April 5, 2009 [18 favorites]
adipocere, I hadn't thought of it like that but I agree with you. We have grown accustomed to the idea that surveillance is a tool of repression, rather than a tool of liberty. I love the idea of turning that on its head.
posted by unSane at 7:01 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by unSane at 7:01 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
the police's story doesn't add up but neither does his
His story doesn't need to. His trial - farce that it was - has already concluded.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:04 PM on April 5, 2009
His story doesn't need to. His trial - farce that it was - has already concluded.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:04 PM on April 5, 2009
what kind of a store keeps 10,000 in cash laying around?
You are absolutely right. The guy should be locked up for a very very long time.
posted by Sailormom at 7:05 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
You are absolutely right. The guy should be locked up for a very very long time.
posted by Sailormom at 7:05 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
10,000 in cash?
The line you quoted in your own post says $10,000 in cash and cartons of Marlboros and Newports. That means the cash and the inventory was worth $10k.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:07 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
The line you quoted in your own post says $10,000 in cash and cartons of Marlboros and Newports. That means the cash and the inventory was worth $10k.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:07 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
I can't take credit for it, unSane. The idea of sousveillance has been around for a while. Watching and recording is a power which I believe should be given to the people, and removed from organizations such as governments and corporations, part of my reasoning being that said organizations have a multiplicative power which, when used to correlate many eyes together, can create a kind of blanket of oppression.
I'm fairly radical in this regard, I know.
posted by adipocere at 7:09 PM on April 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
I'm fairly radical in this regard, I know.
posted by adipocere at 7:09 PM on April 5, 2009 [4 favorites]
"Small" could mean anything from 1" x 2" up to 4" x 6" or whatever. Subject to local interpretation,of course. That means people will be storing beads or screws or stuff in sandwich bags because they can't buy little ones.
posted by unrepentanthippie at 7:10 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by unrepentanthippie at 7:10 PM on April 5, 2009
This is perhaps a stupid question, and I'm sure it gets resolved in employee training, but... how does one tell if ziploc bags are going to be used for drugs?
I've always thought that Top Chef program was bad news. They've been pushing Glad products on us since day one!
posted by graventy at 7:13 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've always thought that Top Chef program was bad news. They've been pushing Glad products on us since day one!
posted by graventy at 7:13 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Wow, I bet jail *really* sucks once your fellow inmates find out you're a crooked cop :)
Seriously, they should make a reality TV show out of this.
posted by Teppy at 7:14 PM on April 5, 2009
Seriously, they should make a reality TV show out of this.
posted by Teppy at 7:14 PM on April 5, 2009
unSane, if you haven't heard of it, the idea is known as sousveillance.
posted by formless at 7:15 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by formless at 7:15 PM on April 5, 2009
how does one tell if ziploc bags are going to be used for drugs?
Probability of drug use = (Foreignness of store owner's name) * (Desirability of store owners goods) / (Strength of American Accent) * (Whiteness)
posted by Benjy at 7:18 PM on April 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
Probability of drug use = (Foreignness of store owner's name) * (Desirability of store owners goods) / (Strength of American Accent) * (Whiteness)
posted by Benjy at 7:18 PM on April 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
How does one tell if ziploc bags are going to be used for drugs?
Generally, one gets a bunch of hypocritical, prescription-drug-abusing doofuses from the state legislature together to interfere in a perfectly legitimate, open transaction in the interest of "protecting the children." If (1) small businesses are harmed by the regulation, and (2) consumers are harmed by the regulation, and (3) drug dealing continues unabated, then you havs succeeded in banning drug paraphernalia.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:18 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Generally, one gets a bunch of hypocritical, prescription-drug-abusing doofuses from the state legislature together to interfere in a perfectly legitimate, open transaction in the interest of "protecting the children." If (1) small businesses are harmed by the regulation, and (2) consumers are harmed by the regulation, and (3) drug dealing continues unabated, then you havs succeeded in banning drug paraphernalia.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:18 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
To introduce some background: The relevant statute is 35 Pennsylvania Statutes § 780-113(a)(33), which prohibits "The delivery of [or] possession with intent to deliver drug paraphernalia, knowing, or under circumstances where one reasonably should know, that it would be used to ... pack, repack, store, contain, [or] conceal ... a controlled substance in violation of this act."
Under 35 P.S. § 780-102(b) drug paraphernalia includes, but is not limited to, "Capsules, balloons, envelopes and other containers used...in packaging small quantities of controlled substances."
On its face, small zip-type containers would seem to fit the definition, but the statute gives guidelines for determining whether an object counts as drug paraphernalia. These guidelines include considering "...instructions...provided with the object concerning its use, descriptive materials accompanying the object which explain or depict its use, national and local advertising concerning its use, the manner in which the object is displayed for sale, whether the owner...is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community,...direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the objects to the total sales of the business enterprise, the existence and scope of legitimate uses for the object in the community, and expert testimony concerning its use."
Looking at the statute as a whole, it is clear that the threshold determination is whether the baggies are drug paraphernalia. If they aren't paraphernalia, then it doesn't matter whether they would be used to store controlled substances or whether the store owner knew or should've known that. There are other guidelines that I've omitted that we don't have enough facts to consider (e.g., whether he knew the baggies were ever used for storing pot), but all of the guidelines I listed clearly come down on the side of 'Ziplock bags are not drug paraphernalia,' which shouldn't surprise anybody.
posted by jedicus at 7:24 PM on April 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
Under 35 P.S. § 780-102(b) drug paraphernalia includes, but is not limited to, "Capsules, balloons, envelopes and other containers used...in packaging small quantities of controlled substances."
On its face, small zip-type containers would seem to fit the definition, but the statute gives guidelines for determining whether an object counts as drug paraphernalia. These guidelines include considering "...instructions...provided with the object concerning its use, descriptive materials accompanying the object which explain or depict its use, national and local advertising concerning its use, the manner in which the object is displayed for sale, whether the owner...is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community,...direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the objects to the total sales of the business enterprise, the existence and scope of legitimate uses for the object in the community, and expert testimony concerning its use."
Looking at the statute as a whole, it is clear that the threshold determination is whether the baggies are drug paraphernalia. If they aren't paraphernalia, then it doesn't matter whether they would be used to store controlled substances or whether the store owner knew or should've known that. There are other guidelines that I've omitted that we don't have enough facts to consider (e.g., whether he knew the baggies were ever used for storing pot), but all of the guidelines I listed clearly come down on the side of 'Ziplock bags are not drug paraphernalia,' which shouldn't surprise anybody.
posted by jedicus at 7:24 PM on April 5, 2009 [6 favorites]
Oy. At my office, whenever we have to attach passport photos to a filing, we put them in little reclosable bags-- specifically these bags, I believe. To make matters worse, I have been known to jokingly refer to them as "drug bags." I guess we're all hardened criminals.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:24 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:24 PM on April 5, 2009
10,000 in cash? - what kind of a store keeps 10,000 in cash laying around?
A bodega is not a 7-11 or gas station convenience store, and doesn't even remotely compare to suburban varieties of "mini-market'.
A bodega sells everything from socks and batteries to 40s to really top shelf liquor. They also often cash checks or act as bill paying points. If they're cashing checks, they're probably holding a lot more than 10k in the store. But they also probably have shotguns under the counter every couple of feet, and I've yet to meet someone who worked at or owned a proper inner city bodega that didn't have a pistol on them or very close at hand.
Some bodegas or minimarkets even operate as a neighborhood bank. A long time ago my dad's manufacturing business was able to float a months worth of payroll off our local store with their permission. They cashed our payroll checks for our employees as they normally did for many of our employees and then sat on them for over a month so we could get our cash flow back up. This was about 15-20k USD in payroll checks. The same store also once loaned us something like 50k in cash just from the cash they had on hand, and only guaranteed by a handshake and without interest, just on the principle that if our business did well then theirs did, too. (And yeah, they had four shotguns - one on either side of each of two registers, and the guys that ran the store had concealed carry permits.)
posted by loquacious at 7:27 PM on April 5, 2009 [43 favorites]
A bodega is not a 7-11 or gas station convenience store, and doesn't even remotely compare to suburban varieties of "mini-market'.
A bodega sells everything from socks and batteries to 40s to really top shelf liquor. They also often cash checks or act as bill paying points. If they're cashing checks, they're probably holding a lot more than 10k in the store. But they also probably have shotguns under the counter every couple of feet, and I've yet to meet someone who worked at or owned a proper inner city bodega that didn't have a pistol on them or very close at hand.
Some bodegas or minimarkets even operate as a neighborhood bank. A long time ago my dad's manufacturing business was able to float a months worth of payroll off our local store with their permission. They cashed our payroll checks for our employees as they normally did for many of our employees and then sat on them for over a month so we could get our cash flow back up. This was about 15-20k USD in payroll checks. The same store also once loaned us something like 50k in cash just from the cash they had on hand, and only guaranteed by a handshake and without interest, just on the principle that if our business did well then theirs did, too. (And yeah, they had four shotguns - one on either side of each of two registers, and the guys that ran the store had concealed carry permits.)
posted by loquacious at 7:27 PM on April 5, 2009 [43 favorites]
I use small ziplocs for all sorts of things. Kids' lunch, small bike parts, drugs*.
*advil, on bike trips.
posted by unSane at 7:31 PM on April 5, 2009
*advil, on bike trips.
posted by unSane at 7:31 PM on April 5, 2009
You think that's bad, you should see what they did to the guy buying the latch-top glass jar set.
posted by carsonb at 7:38 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by carsonb at 7:38 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I just don't know what us crack dealers would do without the beading store down the road.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:40 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Pollomacho at 7:40 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
In Detroit, heroin is often sold in lottery tickets.
Which is brilliant really. I'm sure any day now the state will outlaw lottery tickets.
posted by formless at 7:47 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Which is brilliant really. I'm sure any day now the state will outlaw lottery tickets.
posted by formless at 7:47 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
A bodega is not a 7-11 or gas station convenience store
hmm - ok, i wasn't aware of that - thanks for the explanation, as it was utterly inexplicable to me why a store would have that kind of cash
posted by pyramid termite at 7:50 PM on April 5, 2009
hmm - ok, i wasn't aware of that - thanks for the explanation, as it was utterly inexplicable to me why a store would have that kind of cash
posted by pyramid termite at 7:50 PM on April 5, 2009
I used to sell drugs in those little bags. I got them from a bead store.
posted by snofoam at 7:57 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by snofoam at 7:57 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
As a bar owner in NYC, I can attest to the power of sousveillance (thanks adipocere and formless, didn't know that there was an actual name for it). One of my places was hounded almost weekly by the cops from the local precinct. They would come in, make their presence known to the staff and customers, ask to see all the paperwork posted, and then after 45 minutes or an hour or so, leave. There were never any summonses written. Apparently they just wanted to make clear to us that we were under scrutiny. Sometimes they would be more disruptive than others, but having cops milling about the bar shining their flashlights around is never conducive to business.
Then I got cameras installed. Since notifying the precinct of the cameras, they haven't been in once (besides the routine sting operations). People outside the business are generally surprised when I explain the biggest benefit of the cameras isn't keeping employees in line, but rather the cops. Other bar owners, not so much.
posted by newpotato at 8:12 PM on April 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
Then I got cameras installed. Since notifying the precinct of the cameras, they haven't been in once (besides the routine sting operations). People outside the business are generally surprised when I explain the biggest benefit of the cameras isn't keeping employees in line, but rather the cops. Other bar owners, not so much.
posted by newpotato at 8:12 PM on April 5, 2009 [10 favorites]
it's illegal to sell containers if the store owner "knows or should reasonably know" that the buyer intends to use them to package drugs
With packaging getting cheaper and more disposable-like [CITATION NEEDED] I find it strange that the exact opposite is happening to packaging for a lot of sweets / breath fresheners etc.
I'm seeing a lot of snazzy containers - often made of metal - that would make perfect deal bags or stash tins. Over active imagination?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:48 PM on April 5, 2009
With packaging getting cheaper and more disposable-like [CITATION NEEDED] I find it strange that the exact opposite is happening to packaging for a lot of sweets / breath fresheners etc.
I'm seeing a lot of snazzy containers - often made of metal - that would make perfect deal bags or stash tins. Over active imagination?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:48 PM on April 5, 2009
Do you remember (in the 1980s maybe?) when they tried to outlaw dime bags and fly fishermen across the nation rose up in protest? That was awesome.
posted by small_ruminant at 8:53 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by small_ruminant at 8:53 PM on April 5, 2009
Ok wow so our police just steal stuff from places they raid now?
Hi guys welcome to your favorite third-world bananna republic!
posted by Avenger at 9:00 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Hi guys welcome to your favorite third-world bananna republic!
posted by Avenger at 9:00 PM on April 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is preposterous.
Everybody knows you should have something more sturdy and less breatheable than a Zip-Loc baggie if you're going to store dope. Tupperware works much better.
posted by koeselitz at 9:20 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Everybody knows you should have something more sturdy and less breatheable than a Zip-Loc baggie if you're going to store dope. Tupperware works much better.
posted by koeselitz at 9:20 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think the idea is to sell the stuff in those bags, not store it. 3/10.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:31 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:31 PM on April 5, 2009
I live in downtown Oakland, and for some reason I feel compelled to pick up the various tiny baggies that litter the sidewalk. Just because I have nothing to add to this discussion because I think it's ridiculous too, here is a sampling.
I keep saying I'm going to mount them in one of those bug display cases like butterflies.
posted by bradbane at 10:42 PM on April 5, 2009 [7 favorites]
I keep saying I'm going to mount them in one of those bug display cases like butterflies.
posted by bradbane at 10:42 PM on April 5, 2009 [7 favorites]
Everyone uses baggies, that's why we can all relate to this crime.
posted by porn in the woods at 10:46 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 10:46 PM on April 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
Note to Philidelphia Police Department:
If you are not doing anything wrong, you don't need to destroy the surveillance cameras. If you find yourself destroying a business' surveillance cameras, that should be a signal to you that says "Hey, I am about to do something fucked up and wrong, and I don't want there to be any evidence." And that means you should STOP what you are doing.
Let me put it to you like this; you are watching a movie, and a character starts shooting out the security cameras. Is that character the GOOD Guy, or is he the BAD Guy? That's right, he's the BAD Guy. Well done, Officer!
Now, stay with me here, this is where it gets complicated. You are a police officer. Are YOU supposed to be a GOOD Guy, or a BAD Guy? I know this might be a tough one, so think very hard....
posted by louche mustachio at 11:12 PM on April 5, 2009 [7 favorites]
If you are not doing anything wrong, you don't need to destroy the surveillance cameras. If you find yourself destroying a business' surveillance cameras, that should be a signal to you that says "Hey, I am about to do something fucked up and wrong, and I don't want there to be any evidence." And that means you should STOP what you are doing.
Let me put it to you like this; you are watching a movie, and a character starts shooting out the security cameras. Is that character the GOOD Guy, or is he the BAD Guy? That's right, he's the BAD Guy. Well done, Officer!
Now, stay with me here, this is where it gets complicated. You are a police officer. Are YOU supposed to be a GOOD Guy, or a BAD Guy? I know this might be a tough one, so think very hard....
posted by louche mustachio at 11:12 PM on April 5, 2009 [7 favorites]
I've always wondered what else, if anything, those vials that were used to package crack were used for, and where the dealers bought those?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:49 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:49 PM on April 5, 2009
and where the dealers bought those?
Mountains Of Vile Vials
posted by Tenuki at 12:11 AM on April 6, 2009
Mountains Of Vile Vials
posted by Tenuki at 12:11 AM on April 6, 2009
I'm no criminologist, but this is a textbook example of the failure of either policy or policing: namely that when attempts to root the problem out at source fail, it is much easier to deflect criticism by targeting something less substantial but easier.
cf the war on terror, parking violations etc etc
posted by MuffinMan at 12:36 AM on April 6, 2009
cf the war on terror, parking violations etc etc
posted by MuffinMan at 12:36 AM on April 6, 2009
Jesus Christ, Tenuki. That Time link is hilarious.
Shortly before dusk on April 23, three young agents from the U.S. Customs Service were about to hit the jackpot of their careers.
You know when you happen upon one of those stories, and it seems so out of touch with your own views it's almost Onion-esque? Know what I'm saying?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 12:53 AM on April 6, 2009
Shortly before dusk on April 23, three young agents from the U.S. Customs Service were about to hit the jackpot of their careers.
You know when you happen upon one of those stories, and it seems so out of touch with your own views it's almost Onion-esque? Know what I'm saying?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 12:53 AM on April 6, 2009
pyramid termite wrote: 10,000 in cash? - what kind of a store keeps 10,000 in cash laying around?
i worked at a BUSY convenience store and gas station - we NEVER saw that much money in one day, even on xmas when we were one of the few places open in town
Weird. I've had friends who worked at convenience stores that would do six grand on the morning shift. Granted, most of it was in the time lock safe at any given time (they'd drop once they had about $500 in the drawer, unless it was so busy they didn't have time)
posted by wierdo at 12:54 AM on April 6, 2009
i worked at a BUSY convenience store and gas station - we NEVER saw that much money in one day, even on xmas when we were one of the few places open in town
Weird. I've had friends who worked at convenience stores that would do six grand on the morning shift. Granted, most of it was in the time lock safe at any given time (they'd drop once they had about $500 in the drawer, unless it was so busy they didn't have time)
posted by wierdo at 12:54 AM on April 6, 2009
I believe that many immigrant business owners do not use banks, preferring to keep money at the store or at home, because they either don't trust banks or they are working under the table. Many are targeted for robberies (and probably police raids) for this very reason.
posted by orme at 4:37 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by orme at 4:37 AM on April 6, 2009
What in hell is going on that baggies--used by every parent in America for school lunches--is considered part of the drug trade? Good Christ, when is this garbage going to stop?
posted by etaoin at 5:05 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by etaoin at 5:05 AM on April 6, 2009
This is the kind of shit that instantly eliminates all the political correctness that's been bred over the years.
This whole thing is retarded and those fucking pigs should be in jail. I feel that these are the only words that express my feelings on this situation.
posted by tehloki at 5:07 AM on April 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
This whole thing is retarded and those fucking pigs should be in jail. I feel that these are the only words that express my feelings on this situation.
posted by tehloki at 5:07 AM on April 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
You Should See the Other Guy: "10,000 in cash?
The line you quoted in your own post says $10,000 in cash and cartons of Marlboros and Newports. That means the cash and the inventory was worth $10k."
That's like four cartons of cigarettes in Chicago. The fuckers.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 5:31 AM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
The line you quoted in your own post says $10,000 in cash and cartons of Marlboros and Newports. That means the cash and the inventory was worth $10k."
That's like four cartons of cigarettes in Chicago. The fuckers.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 5:31 AM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
bradbane, depending on what profile you fit and where you live, you might want to be careful picking those bags up. If you're stopped for something, having a pocketful of empty bags can get you arrested for having paraphernalia. There could aslo be trace amounts of drugs left in em. Maybe I'm just paranoid...
posted by ShadowCrash at 6:45 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by ShadowCrash at 6:45 AM on April 6, 2009
I'd just like to point out that this story appears in what some Time magazine blogger said was America's most endangered newspaper. Next time you doubt the importance of so-called mainstream newspapers, please remember that you wouldn't have the luxury of your outrage if it weren't for the work of professionally trained newspaper reporters and editors.
(Disclosure: I've worked at the Daily News for 20-plus years but had nothing to do with this report.)
The two reporters on the paper's Tainted Justice series - both women - have risked their lives to uncover this corruption. They've received numerous threats from both police and drug dealers. They've been slandered at length in local blogs and news groups. One of them was clocked in the face while conducting an interview. They reported this story by tirelessly following tips, by interviewing drug informants, cops, local residents and shopkeepers.
All of this while their employer filed for bankruptcy, cut their pay and seemed close to folding.
I read and enjoy blogs as much as the next guy, but I have a very hard time imagining this kind of news reporting being replaced by so-called citizen journalists.
posted by sixpack at 7:13 AM on April 6, 2009 [14 favorites]
(Disclosure: I've worked at the Daily News for 20-plus years but had nothing to do with this report.)
The two reporters on the paper's Tainted Justice series - both women - have risked their lives to uncover this corruption. They've received numerous threats from both police and drug dealers. They've been slandered at length in local blogs and news groups. One of them was clocked in the face while conducting an interview. They reported this story by tirelessly following tips, by interviewing drug informants, cops, local residents and shopkeepers.
All of this while their employer filed for bankruptcy, cut their pay and seemed close to folding.
I read and enjoy blogs as much as the next guy, but I have a very hard time imagining this kind of news reporting being replaced by so-called citizen journalists.
posted by sixpack at 7:13 AM on April 6, 2009 [14 favorites]
Kima Greggs: What do you think, Bubs?
Bubbles: *looks over undercover cop* Naw, naw. The boots. Here look at mine. It’s the zips. You can’t walk down the street without getting all these zip locks stuck to the bottom of your boots.
No, doesn’t work.
If you're stopped for something, having a pocketful of empty bags can get you arrested for having paraphernalia.
Reminds me of that other handy catch-all: "possess break-in instruments".
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:15 AM on April 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Bubbles: *looks over undercover cop* Naw, naw. The boots. Here look at mine. It’s the zips. You can’t walk down the street without getting all these zip locks stuck to the bottom of your boots.
No, doesn’t work.
If you're stopped for something, having a pocketful of empty bags can get you arrested for having paraphernalia.
Reminds me of that other handy catch-all: "possess break-in instruments".
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:15 AM on April 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh dear Lord, I have ziplock snack-size baggies in my house right now! and envelopes! and bead vials! I'll just save everybody time and effort and go turn myself in. Should I tell them about the box cutters, do you think?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:20 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:20 AM on April 6, 2009
Another reason why drugs should be legalized.
I read and enjoy blogs as much as the next guy, but I have a very hard time imagining this kind of news reporting being replaced by so-called citizen journalists
Depends on the citizen journalist. Doesn't it? The demise of many print journalism outlets is going to leave an awful lot of college educated journalists without jobs. We shall see how seriously they take their profession, I guess.
posted by IvoShandor at 7:47 AM on April 6, 2009
I read and enjoy blogs as much as the next guy, but I have a very hard time imagining this kind of news reporting being replaced by so-called citizen journalists
Depends on the citizen journalist. Doesn't it? The demise of many print journalism outlets is going to leave an awful lot of college educated journalists without jobs. We shall see how seriously they take their profession, I guess.
posted by IvoShandor at 7:47 AM on April 6, 2009
e.g., whether he knew the baggies were ever used for storing pot
Just to clarify, it's extremely unlikely that these are "sandwich sized" ziplock bags. The kind that are generally targeted for raids like this are tiny, and would hold only a minute amount of pot. They're about one inch by one inch, and are far more useful for holding various powders (or rocks, as the case may be).
Not that I in any way agree with this sort of raid, but these bags are not your standard snack sized ziplocks.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 7:52 AM on April 6, 2009
Just to clarify, it's extremely unlikely that these are "sandwich sized" ziplock bags. The kind that are generally targeted for raids like this are tiny, and would hold only a minute amount of pot. They're about one inch by one inch, and are far more useful for holding various powders (or rocks, as the case may be).
Not that I in any way agree with this sort of raid, but these bags are not your standard snack sized ziplocks.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 7:52 AM on April 6, 2009
Does anyone who has an ounce of intelligence and awareness of the news really doubt that the "War on Drugs" has done huge net harm to our country? Anyone?
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:10 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:10 AM on April 6, 2009
Selling baggies is for small fry. The bead shop in my old home town had a run on after someone discovered that some of the Indian beads they were selling were actually (very) low grade opium wrapped in foil. Apparently it took them a while to figure out why they were so popular.
posted by tallus at 8:47 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by tallus at 8:47 AM on April 6, 2009
From the Time article Tenuki posted:
On the positive side, paraphernalia busts are boosting costs in the drug world. The price of crack pipes has climbed from $5 to $8 in some cities.
Finally, the positive side of the drug war!
posted by formless at 9:27 AM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
On the positive side, paraphernalia busts are boosting costs in the drug world. The price of crack pipes has climbed from $5 to $8 in some cities.
Finally, the positive side of the drug war!
posted by formless at 9:27 AM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Can anyone tell me why these officers should not immediately be relieved of duty, and if they are not why the citizens of Philadelphia should not actively cause trouble for the police? Mind you, not cause trouble in for the citizens, i.e. vandalizing downtown, setting fires etc. I mean focusing all that harassment at the police personnel and equipment specifically.
posted by MrBobaFett at 10:34 AM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by MrBobaFett at 10:34 AM on April 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Can anyone tell me why these officers should not immediately be relieved of duty, and if they are not why the citizens of Philadelphia should not actively cause trouble for the police? Mind you, not cause trouble in for the citizens, i.e. vandalizing downtown, setting fires etc. I mean focusing all that harassment at the police personnel and equipment specifically.
Fear. Of retaliation.
You think this is an isolated example of police overstepping their bounds?
For some insight into the charming attitudes of members of the FOP, read some of the stuff posted on Domelights .
/Philadelphian.
posted by desuetude at 10:51 AM on April 6, 2009
Fear. Of retaliation.
You think this is an isolated example of police overstepping their bounds?
For some insight into the charming attitudes of members of the FOP, read some of the stuff posted on Domelights .
/Philadelphian.
posted by desuetude at 10:51 AM on April 6, 2009
For the record, I make my own vitamin packets from larger bottles of vitamins to save money, and I enter "head shops" to buy packets of tiny ziplocks, because those are the only places I know of that sell them.
posted by telstar at 10:55 AM on April 6, 2009
posted by telstar at 10:55 AM on April 6, 2009
We shall see how seriously they take their profession, I guess.
If they're no longer employed, how is it their "profession"? What you mean is "we shall see how doggedly they pursue their vocation when it is merely an occasionally-remunerated hobby."
posted by yoink at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2009
If they're no longer employed, how is it their "profession"? What you mean is "we shall see how doggedly they pursue their vocation when it is merely an occasionally-remunerated hobby."
posted by yoink at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2009
Can anyone tell me why these officers should not immediately be relieved of duty, and if they are not why the citizens of Philadelphia should not actively cause trouble for the police? Mind you, not cause trouble in for the citizens, i.e. vandalizing downtown, setting fires etc. I mean focusing all that harassment at the police personnel and equipment specifically.
It's the culture. This has happened before and it will happen again. See previous comment.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:34 AM on April 6, 2009
It's the culture. This has happened before and it will happen again. See previous comment.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:34 AM on April 6, 2009
bradbane, depending on what profile you fit and where you live, you might want to be careful picking those bags up. If you're stopped for something, having a pocketful of empty bags can get you arrested for having paraphernalia.
I'm a white male who lives in the middle of "Oaksterdam" in a town where weed is decriminalized and people openly hit bongs at the bus stop. I'm not really worried about it, but yeah you're right. Kind of sad picking up litter on my neighborhood's sidewalk could get me a paraphernalia charge.
posted by bradbane at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2009
I'm a white male who lives in the middle of "Oaksterdam" in a town where weed is decriminalized and people openly hit bongs at the bus stop. I'm not really worried about it, but yeah you're right. Kind of sad picking up litter on my neighborhood's sidewalk could get me a paraphernalia charge.
posted by bradbane at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2009
sorry to hear that bradbane. From what I know based on my DARE training, any place that allows public drug use must be utter hell.
I'm kidding, of course. Oaksterdam sounds like a magical place.
posted by ShadowCrash at 2:54 PM on April 6, 2009
I'm kidding, of course. Oaksterdam sounds like a magical place.
posted by ShadowCrash at 2:54 PM on April 6, 2009
If they're no longer employed, how is it their "profession"? What you mean is "we shall see how doggedly they pursue their vocation when it is merely an occasionally-remunerated hobby."
I'm pretty confident that web-based investigative journalism outlets will come to exist and be profitable. We're in a pretty weird place right now, but do you really think no one will figure out how to profit from this stuff online?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:59 PM on April 6, 2009
I'm pretty confident that web-based investigative journalism outlets will come to exist and be profitable. We're in a pretty weird place right now, but do you really think no one will figure out how to profit from this stuff online?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:59 PM on April 6, 2009
desuetude: Fear. Of retaliation.
I'll accept that as a reason why people won't do it, but that's not a reason they shouldn't do it.
You think this is an isolated example of police overstepping their bounds?
No, I think that every time a public servant oversteps their bounds heads should roll. If those in charge will not do their duty as laid on them by the public, then fuck them. Keep going up the chain to the person that will reprimand them all. If no one can be found in power who will protect the public then it is time to throw out those in power by force.
Any government official who does not keep their subordinates in line is asking for violent reprisals.
posted by MrBobaFett at 4:19 PM on April 6, 2009
I'll accept that as a reason why people won't do it, but that's not a reason they shouldn't do it.
You think this is an isolated example of police overstepping their bounds?
No, I think that every time a public servant oversteps their bounds heads should roll. If those in charge will not do their duty as laid on them by the public, then fuck them. Keep going up the chain to the person that will reprimand them all. If no one can be found in power who will protect the public then it is time to throw out those in power by force.
Any government official who does not keep their subordinates in line is asking for violent reprisals.
posted by MrBobaFett at 4:19 PM on April 6, 2009
"If no one can be found in power who will protect the public then it is time to throw out those in power by force."
I agree in principle, but this could be fixed by straightening out the legislators and fixing the stupid law which lends itself to this kind of behavior in the first place. If there was no money in the department for doing this under the idiotic seizure laws, this type of thing would happen only as an aberration, as police corruption, not as a matter of course. As it sits, it's almost silly not to take advantage of it if the money is just sitting there. Laying the whole trip on police officers personal morality is crazy, you can always find in some group anyone who will do almost anything. Hell, get a large enough bunch of quakers together odds are one of them is going to punch someone in the mouth. So you have regulations and guidelines and laws which dictate behavior which penalizes people for certain behavior which is usually a high enough threshold to make it not worth the effort and generally that keeps everyone but the serious assholes in line. From there it's just a matter of weeding out those idiots who can't follow regs.
I mean, technically, they haven't overstepped their bounds. Oh, in no way do I think this is legitimate. But by the same token they didn't bust in, shoot the place up and take the guy's money and blatantly violate the law. This is most certainly wrong, but legal? If they falsified the records, lied about the warrant, all that, yeah. And cutting the cameras are a dead giveaway.
But it's all predicated on an otherwise legal raid - which should never have been allowed to take place in the first place. You can't allow that foot in the door, especially on a legal business. So plenty of blame on the cops here, but plenty of blame on how the law is written and the system is structured.
By the same token, someone declares that kind of war on me and starts taking food out of my kids' mouths, yeah, I'm going to have something to say about it that isn't very polite. Probably one thing. From a very long way away.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:16 PM on April 6, 2009
I agree in principle, but this could be fixed by straightening out the legislators and fixing the stupid law which lends itself to this kind of behavior in the first place. If there was no money in the department for doing this under the idiotic seizure laws, this type of thing would happen only as an aberration, as police corruption, not as a matter of course. As it sits, it's almost silly not to take advantage of it if the money is just sitting there. Laying the whole trip on police officers personal morality is crazy, you can always find in some group anyone who will do almost anything. Hell, get a large enough bunch of quakers together odds are one of them is going to punch someone in the mouth. So you have regulations and guidelines and laws which dictate behavior which penalizes people for certain behavior which is usually a high enough threshold to make it not worth the effort and generally that keeps everyone but the serious assholes in line. From there it's just a matter of weeding out those idiots who can't follow regs.
I mean, technically, they haven't overstepped their bounds. Oh, in no way do I think this is legitimate. But by the same token they didn't bust in, shoot the place up and take the guy's money and blatantly violate the law. This is most certainly wrong, but legal? If they falsified the records, lied about the warrant, all that, yeah. And cutting the cameras are a dead giveaway.
But it's all predicated on an otherwise legal raid - which should never have been allowed to take place in the first place. You can't allow that foot in the door, especially on a legal business. So plenty of blame on the cops here, but plenty of blame on how the law is written and the system is structured.
By the same token, someone declares that kind of war on me and starts taking food out of my kids' mouths, yeah, I'm going to have something to say about it that isn't very polite. Probably one thing. From a very long way away.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:16 PM on April 6, 2009
We're in a pretty weird place right now, but do you really think no one will figure out how to profit from this stuff online?
Do you want the honest answer?
posted by Sangermaine at 8:56 PM on April 6, 2009
Do you want the honest answer?
posted by Sangermaine at 8:56 PM on April 6, 2009
I mean, technically, they haven't overstepped their bounds
You missed the part about them cutting the security cameras, I take it.
posted by unSane at 7:16 AM on April 7, 2009
You missed the part about them cutting the security cameras, I take it.
posted by unSane at 7:16 AM on April 7, 2009
desuetude: Fear. Of retaliation.
I'll accept that as a reason why people won't do it, but that's not a reason they shouldn't do it.
Well, this is why this kind of oppression by the authorities works so well. Poking this beehive could very well result in my front door being broken down and my family terrorized (and/or shot, arrested on trumped up charges, etc.) with little means of recourse. It's a pretty effective deterrent. I'm not ready to personally overthrow the government.
posted by desuetude at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'll accept that as a reason why people won't do it, but that's not a reason they shouldn't do it.
Well, this is why this kind of oppression by the authorities works so well. Poking this beehive could very well result in my front door being broken down and my family terrorized (and/or shot, arrested on trumped up charges, etc.) with little means of recourse. It's a pretty effective deterrent. I'm not ready to personally overthrow the government.
posted by desuetude at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
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posted by Tomorrowful at 6:30 PM on April 5, 2009