Ignorant Clown Posse
June 19, 2010 1:08 PM Subscribe
Fucking Magnets, Here's How They Work. Noisebridge visits Insane Clown Posse fans to help them understand how magnets, rainbows, butterflies, and other mysteries of science work. Insane Clown Posse prefers ignorance, and responds with anger and threats of violence. Previously. Background.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
Sounds like everything was fine until ICP sent out their roadies/goons to chase off the "scientist haters."
These idiots' minds would be absolutely blown if they ever thought about how much SCIENCE! it took to invent the microphones, lighting rigs, amplifiers, recording studios and computer animation-intensive music videos that make their careers possible.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:25 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
These idiots' minds would be absolutely blown if they ever thought about how much SCIENCE! it took to invent the microphones, lighting rigs, amplifiers, recording studios and computer animation-intensive music videos that make their careers possible.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:25 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
What's sort of funny to me about the "fucking magnets" is that no one really knows how electromagnetism works. It's one of the fundamental forces of nature, as far as we can tell. We can model it and describe particles' charges and repulsive/attractive forces, but that doesn't explain its existence. That's not to defend the anti-science stupidity, it's just something I notice. The attitude of celebrating ignorance does piss me off, I think it's one of our culture's bigger problems.
On a related note, here's Richard Feynman on the subject.
posted by knave at 1:26 PM on June 19, 2010 [31 favorites]
On a related note, here's Richard Feynman on the subject.
posted by knave at 1:26 PM on June 19, 2010 [31 favorites]
There are people older than nine who think answering rhetorical questions is funny?
posted by enn at 1:36 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by enn at 1:36 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
There are people older than nine who think answering rhetorical questions is funny?
No.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:42 PM on June 19, 2010 [63 favorites]
No.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:42 PM on June 19, 2010 [63 favorites]
There are people older than nine who think answering rhetorical questions is funny?
Yes, yes there are.
And that which you are doing right now? That is hilarious.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:44 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yes, yes there are.
And that which you are doing right now? That is hilarious.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:44 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
It didn't seem like their sign really explained how magnets actually worked. It was just a big picture of one.
posted by delmoi at 1:47 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by delmoi at 1:47 PM on June 19, 2010
Electromagnetism, I agree, is ill-explained by science. Just like particle physics - maybe we can't find the Higg's boson because it DOESN'T EXIST and our entire model is just an approximate guess at how things work.
Science aside, you really have to pity a group that puts up such a massive front of ignorance, violence, and hate. Their perception of the world must be about as paranoid as Israel's.
posted by cbecker333 at 1:49 PM on June 19, 2010
Science aside, you really have to pity a group that puts up such a massive front of ignorance, violence, and hate. Their perception of the world must be about as paranoid as Israel's.
posted by cbecker333 at 1:49 PM on June 19, 2010
Yes! Thank you knave! I mean, technically we know exactly how magnets work, but not why they work. And it's pretty obvious that that is the mystery that's so amazing to ICP. And actually, it really is amazing! Sure, we know how to create magnets, and can describe, predict, and model their behaviour. But we don't really know why it has these properties and behaviour. It just simply does. Same goes for gravity.
But seriously, they were pissed by scientists right from the start ("I don't want to hear from no scientists/ muthafuckers are lying, and getting me pissed!"), so even showing up is a pretty obvious sign of antagonism and condescension. Was the outcome really so surprising?
posted by molecicco at 1:49 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
But seriously, they were pissed by scientists right from the start ("I don't want to hear from no scientists/ muthafuckers are lying, and getting me pissed!"), so even showing up is a pretty obvious sign of antagonism and condescension. Was the outcome really so surprising?
posted by molecicco at 1:49 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
knave: Agreed; physics is one of those things that only makes the Universe seem more amazing the more you know about it. But ICP's philosophy seems to be that ignorance enhances one's appreciation of the world.
It's one thing to read up on electromagnetism or the Standard Model, or even just one of the Feynman Lectures, and get mindblown with good god, look how much we don't know. But it's quite another to revel in no-nothingism while pretending that it's enlightenment.
I have no problem mocking self-imposed ignorance, or the glorification of it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:52 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
It's one thing to read up on electromagnetism or the Standard Model, or even just one of the Feynman Lectures, and get mindblown with good god, look how much we don't know. But it's quite another to revel in no-nothingism while pretending that it's enlightenment.
I have no problem mocking self-imposed ignorance, or the glorification of it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:52 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
What? Someone is wrong? At an ICP concert? Quick! To the douche-mobile!
posted by uncleozzy at 1:56 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 1:56 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
I don't really understand the context here, but I do find it amusing that I know a bunch of the folks that are doing this.
posted by pombe at 2:03 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by pombe at 2:03 PM on June 19, 2010
We can model it and describe particles' charges and repulsive/attractive forces, but that doesn't explain its existence.
This is because it's usually somewhere between very hard and impossible to answer why questions from within a system.
-also-
Teach science with the tools of science - A BIG FUCKING RAIL GUN!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:07 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is because it's usually somewhere between very hard and impossible to answer why questions from within a system.
-also-
Teach science with the tools of science - A BIG FUCKING RAIL GUN!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:07 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yall realize that the guy in the top pic has a board on Cognitive Dissonance Theory? That's pretty funny right there.
posted by Xoebe at 2:11 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Xoebe at 2:11 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
I hate when rock stars write songs about how they've unlocked the secrets of life simply by procreating, so I'm fully behind any mockery of this song.
posted by queensissy at 2:17 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by queensissy at 2:17 PM on June 19, 2010
Nobody's linking to the realtime tweet from Violent J: "We're in Frisco. There's supposed to be some scientist out front to educate Juggalos on magnets. Very funny. That's asking to get bombed on."
If asked to elaborate, he would probably say, "fuck the haters, this ain't no science fair, we're here to make some music." And, you know, he is an asshole for chasing people off, but the whole nerds vs. white trash thing is not very productive.
posted by shii at 2:20 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
If asked to elaborate, he would probably say, "fuck the haters, this ain't no science fair, we're here to make some music." And, you know, he is an asshole for chasing people off, but the whole nerds vs. white trash thing is not very productive.
posted by shii at 2:20 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
But seriously, they were pissed by scientists right from the start ("I don't want to hear from no scientists/ muthafuckers are lying, and getting me pissed!"), so even showing up is a pretty obvious sign of antagonism and condescension. Was the outcome really so surprising?
Hmm ... I guess I don't understand enough about the band, but ... why do they hate scientists? What does ICP think scientists are lying about?
The song describes the wonders of the universe and an appreciation for nature's beauty, while angrily eschewing science.
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
posted by krinklyfig at 2:21 PM on June 19, 2010 [12 favorites]
Hmm ... I guess I don't understand enough about the band, but ... why do they hate scientists? What does ICP think scientists are lying about?
The song describes the wonders of the universe and an appreciation for nature's beauty, while angrily eschewing science.
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
posted by krinklyfig at 2:21 PM on June 19, 2010 [12 favorites]
This is why Doc Popular is one of the awesomest nerdcore artists out there.
posted by ShawnStruck at 2:21 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by ShawnStruck at 2:21 PM on June 19, 2010
Actually, sounds like everyone was having a good time with it except for Violent J. But with a name like "Violent" I guess that's to be expected.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:29 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by krinklyfig at 2:29 PM on June 19, 2010
I think the funniest part of the video that I haven't seen anybody mention is that for a portion of it they are "rapping" from an ever rising tower of babble.
Go ahead and take a minute to think about the semiotics of that one.
posted by P.o.B. at 2:33 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
Go ahead and take a minute to think about the semiotics of that one.
posted by P.o.B. at 2:33 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
It's one thing to read up on electromagnetism or the Standard Model, or even just one of the Feynman Lectures, and get mindblown with good god, look how much we don't know.
So what if Noisebridge had designed its posters to help average folks to reach into that domain a little? Wouldn't that have been awesome? I love science desperately, and I'm fair-fond of several of ICP's tracks. I'd be all over this project, too, if Noisebridge'd crafted the posters and presentations respectfully, so that they might have had a chance of reaching their audiences, and inspiring real, solid, non-ignorant wonder. The goal should have been for the Juggalos present to go home after the show and burble happily to their kids about molecular orbitals, or the relationship between heat, oxygen, and visible flame-- not to walk away thinking that scientists are all smug, hateful choads.
I mean, for pity's sake: Shaggy and Violent J seem pretty invested in the idea that the Juggalos are a family. When Noisebridge showed up on the family's de facto front porch to make fun of them, what did they think would happen?
W/re: science, there's already enough of a gulf between the knowledgeable and the uninformed. It affects policy, medicine, the environment, etc. in a host of negative ways. In showing up at concerts to poke fun at people, Noisebridge is not helping. IMO, they're doing the opposite of helping.
/Humorless Polyanna of SCIENCE!
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 2:40 PM on June 19, 2010 [9 favorites]
So what if Noisebridge had designed its posters to help average folks to reach into that domain a little? Wouldn't that have been awesome? I love science desperately, and I'm fair-fond of several of ICP's tracks. I'd be all over this project, too, if Noisebridge'd crafted the posters and presentations respectfully, so that they might have had a chance of reaching their audiences, and inspiring real, solid, non-ignorant wonder. The goal should have been for the Juggalos present to go home after the show and burble happily to their kids about molecular orbitals, or the relationship between heat, oxygen, and visible flame-- not to walk away thinking that scientists are all smug, hateful choads.
I mean, for pity's sake: Shaggy and Violent J seem pretty invested in the idea that the Juggalos are a family. When Noisebridge showed up on the family's de facto front porch to make fun of them, what did they think would happen?
W/re: science, there's already enough of a gulf between the knowledgeable and the uninformed. It affects policy, medicine, the environment, etc. in a host of negative ways. In showing up at concerts to poke fun at people, Noisebridge is not helping. IMO, they're doing the opposite of helping.
/Humorless Polyanna of SCIENCE!
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 2:40 PM on June 19, 2010 [9 favorites]
To my friends at Noisebridge who participated in this tomfoolery
posted by finite at 2:52 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by finite at 2:52 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
i've only listened to a little bit of icp and i'm kind of surprised at how upbeat miracles is. didn't come off as an anti science song at all. yeah there's that line, but then i can easily see where that's coming from--science isn't, after all an exact science ... a lot of it is people making educated guesses.
as for the noisebridge people, their stunt was pretty insulting to the juggalos. no wonder the band kicked them out.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 2:57 PM on June 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
as for the noisebridge people, their stunt was pretty insulting to the juggalos. no wonder the band kicked them out.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 2:57 PM on June 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
One more thing I'm sorry I know about.
(* starts digging in temporal lobe with ice pick*)
posted by warbaby at 3:04 PM on June 19, 2010
(* starts digging in temporal lobe with ice pick*)
posted by warbaby at 3:04 PM on June 19, 2010
Sure, the stunt was potentially insulting to juggalos (though I'm sure 99% of them took it in the good-natured way it was intended), but "I don't want to talk to a scientist, y'all motherfuckers are lying" is intentionally, unambiguously insulting to scientists. If the ICP can't handle beef with a few nerds in white coats, they shouldn't have brought it. Greatest feud ever.
posted by No-sword at 3:10 PM on June 19, 2010 [20 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 3:10 PM on June 19, 2010 [20 favorites]
Here are a few concerned posts from the lengthy noisebridge-discuss thread where much of the planning for this event transpired.
posted by finite at 3:10 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by finite at 3:10 PM on June 19, 2010
Shaggy and Violent J seem pretty invested in the idea that the Juggalos are a family.
I'm fairly certain this is a cleverly-calculated illusion played upon a more gullible and disenfranchised than average fanbase.
Shaggy and Violent J likely view them and protect them as the easy stream of revenue they are and probably would be about as happy hanging out with a crowd of your typical Juggalos as you or I would (probably not at all).
We are talking after all, about a demographic that would likely skip on the baby formula in order to buy more "Hatchetman" merch.
Family indeed.
posted by sourwookie at 3:28 PM on June 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm fairly certain this is a cleverly-calculated illusion played upon a more gullible and disenfranchised than average fanbase.
Shaggy and Violent J likely view them and protect them as the easy stream of revenue they are and probably would be about as happy hanging out with a crowd of your typical Juggalos as you or I would (probably not at all).
We are talking after all, about a demographic that would likely skip on the baby formula in order to buy more "Hatchetman" merch.
Family indeed.
posted by sourwookie at 3:28 PM on June 19, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm fairly certain this is a cleverly-calculated illusion played upon a more gullible and disenfranchised than average fanbase.
Well, sure. But whether ICP has a genuine and special love for each, individual clown-child; or whether they merely have a strong, financial interest in making it look that way; IMO, you'd have to expect that the band wouldn't take kindly to Noisebridge's antics.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 3:37 PM on June 19, 2010
Well, sure. But whether ICP has a genuine and special love for each, individual clown-child; or whether they merely have a strong, financial interest in making it look that way; IMO, you'd have to expect that the band wouldn't take kindly to Noisebridge's antics.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 3:37 PM on June 19, 2010
I'd tend to think this is less about hating science and more about maximizing their publicity.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:38 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by jimmythefish at 3:38 PM on June 19, 2010
I mostly agree with lester's sock puppet: it takes an awful lot of foregone conclusion to listen to that song as being anti-science in any real way. I mean come on, haven't you ever, in a fit of love for whatever your favorite field of study is, shouted to a colleague, "Shut the fuck up, this is amazing!"?
It seems like even the Noisebridge posse was a little surprised at being well-received by the Juggalos. In that way, the narrative of the videos is really different from that of the message board leading up to the concert. In that way, it doesn't surprise me that Violent J just wanted to scare them away. He didn't see what was actually happening; he only saw buzz leading up to it on the internet.
sourwookie: "I'm fairly certain this is a cleverly-calculated illusion played upon a more gullible and disenfranchised than average fanbase. "
Come on. Yes, they like their fans, just like every entertainer in the world likes his or her fans. What makes ICP clever as a marketing machine is that it gives its fans a nickname and identity, just like sports teams do.
sourwookie: "We are talking after all, about a demographic that would likely skip on the baby formula in order to buy more "Hatchetman" merch. "
That's a kind of butt thing to say.
posted by roll truck roll at 3:42 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
It seems like even the Noisebridge posse was a little surprised at being well-received by the Juggalos. In that way, the narrative of the videos is really different from that of the message board leading up to the concert. In that way, it doesn't surprise me that Violent J just wanted to scare them away. He didn't see what was actually happening; he only saw buzz leading up to it on the internet.
sourwookie: "I'm fairly certain this is a cleverly-calculated illusion played upon a more gullible and disenfranchised than average fanbase. "
Come on. Yes, they like their fans, just like every entertainer in the world likes his or her fans. What makes ICP clever as a marketing machine is that it gives its fans a nickname and identity, just like sports teams do.
sourwookie: "We are talking after all, about a demographic that would likely skip on the baby formula in order to buy more "Hatchetman" merch. "
That's a kind of butt thing to say.
posted by roll truck roll at 3:42 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
Ya, I'm not a fan of ICP, but I don't think that song is about celebrating ignorance at all. The "motherfuckers are lying" line is stupid, but it is just a rhyme, albeit not a very good one. As others have pointed out, they are obviously celebrating the wonders of life that we can't fully explain (the why not the how). I thought it was a surprisingly sensitive and actually rather smart song in a way. I never in my life thought I would be defending these guys, but there you go. Picking on them for this just feels douchey to me.
posted by Jeeb at 3:43 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Jeeb at 3:43 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
Dude, you don't go messing with INSANE CLOWNS. You just don't.
posted by Kloryne at 4:02 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Kloryne at 4:02 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
That's a kind of butt thing to say.
Fair enough, rock and roll truck, but:
Perhaps I shouldn't generalize, but what I was thinking was the story of Annabelle Lotus, the newborn daughter ICP superfan parents. Her mom, over the course of her pregnancy would brag about all the alcohol and Xanax based partying she was doing on Myspace and Juggalo fansites. The baby died shortly after birth.
Perhaps it should have been left at that, a tragic case of someone not knowing how (or perhaps not caring) to take care of themselves and their unborn child. That would have been bad enough.
But after her baby's death she appeared on several ICP fan shows to tell her story and make pleas for donated ICP merch for her and her husband--not that they had befallen any real financial hardship but really just "our Juggalette baby just died and mommy and daddy are sad please make us happy with some free hoodies."
Sure, I shouldn't paint them all with so broad a brush, but man.
(there's plenty of information there that a quick google would return the whole story--I don't wish to link to most the returns)
posted by sourwookie at 4:14 PM on June 19, 2010 [7 favorites]
Fair enough, rock and roll truck, but:
Perhaps I shouldn't generalize, but what I was thinking was the story of Annabelle Lotus, the newborn daughter ICP superfan parents. Her mom, over the course of her pregnancy would brag about all the alcohol and Xanax based partying she was doing on Myspace and Juggalo fansites. The baby died shortly after birth.
Perhaps it should have been left at that, a tragic case of someone not knowing how (or perhaps not caring) to take care of themselves and their unborn child. That would have been bad enough.
But after her baby's death she appeared on several ICP fan shows to tell her story and make pleas for donated ICP merch for her and her husband--not that they had befallen any real financial hardship but really just "our Juggalette baby just died and mommy and daddy are sad please make us happy with some free hoodies."
Sure, I shouldn't paint them all with so broad a brush, but man.
(there's plenty of information there that a quick google would return the whole story--I don't wish to link to most the returns)
posted by sourwookie at 4:14 PM on June 19, 2010 [7 favorites]
And I know this type of story isn't exclusive to the ICP fanbase. I seem to remember coming across a smattering of reports of child neglect due to World Of Warcraft addiction a while back. Perhaps I've taken this into some sort of phantom"moral panic" territory, the "outrage du jour" so to speak and should readjust my course now.
posted by sourwookie at 4:18 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by sourwookie at 4:18 PM on June 19, 2010
I know some of the people who were involved in organizing this; they were intensely pleased with themselves.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:23 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:23 PM on June 19, 2010 [2 favorites]
sourwookie, as soon as I scrolled down to that comment, I tried to find pictures of that Psychopathic-Records-decal'd infant coffin to be linked. But your last comment is much classier than mine in refusing to do so.
It is possible for people to be miserable, neglected, disenfranchised, and also hateful and ignorant enough to be mocked openly. We don't get any equivocation about that in Tea Party threads.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:35 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
It is possible for people to be miserable, neglected, disenfranchised, and also hateful and ignorant enough to be mocked openly. We don't get any equivocation about that in Tea Party threads.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:35 PM on June 19, 2010 [5 favorites]
Shaggy and Violent J likely view them and protect them as the easy stream of revenue they are and probably would be about as happy hanging out with a crowd of your typical Juggalos as you or I would (probably not at all).
That seems unlikely. If they didn't like those kinds of people they wouldn't make that kind of music. In one of those "Gathering of the Juggalos" videos that got linked here they said that one of the guys in the band was going to be serving hotdogs all day or something like that.
Also, what's up with the sudden 'mainstream' pop-cultural relevance of ICP? It seems like the Gathering of Juggalos" video went viral, then the 'fucking magnets' thing took it up a notch. Is that pretty much what happened? All of this seems to have taken place over the last year or so, and these guys have been around forever.
posted by delmoi at 4:55 PM on June 19, 2010
That seems unlikely. If they didn't like those kinds of people they wouldn't make that kind of music. In one of those "Gathering of the Juggalos" videos that got linked here they said that one of the guys in the band was going to be serving hotdogs all day or something like that.
Also, what's up with the sudden 'mainstream' pop-cultural relevance of ICP? It seems like the Gathering of Juggalos" video went viral, then the 'fucking magnets' thing took it up a notch. Is that pretty much what happened? All of this seems to have taken place over the last year or so, and these guys have been around forever.
posted by delmoi at 4:55 PM on June 19, 2010
I hated this song from the beginning. Aren't the lyrics basically "we're totally ignorant, which means we understand the REAL universe"? That's just...ignorant.
posted by DU at 4:57 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by DU at 4:57 PM on June 19, 2010
Las vegas, the city that never sleeps just got put to bed with wicked shit lullabies from the duke of the wicked and the southwest strangla 11:41 PM Jun 10th via txt - Violent J
I...
I love this
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 5:17 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
I...
I love this
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 5:17 PM on June 19, 2010 [4 favorites]
no one really knows how electromagnetism works. It's one of the fundamental forces of natureCan't magnetism be seen as the Lorentz-boosted version of an electric field? So, sure, that still leaves electric charge as a fundamental mystery. But AIUI if you have electric charge, a universal speed limit, and invariance of physics in inertial reference frames, then you just automatically get something like magnetism.
</nerrrrd>
posted by hattifattener at 5:25 PM on June 19, 2010
there are certainly a lot of suburbanites that are juggalos - but all the ones i've known personally have been poor, white trash, living in agricultural communities and going muddin' on the weekend. for their social groups, 25k a year is living the high life. i think it's easy to paint those two groups with the same brush, but one of the main differences is money and access to things that are better and less filled with hate and fear.
i will also say that i've known some shitty, awful, hateful, racist pieces of trash that were juggalos and i've known sweet, caring, and tenderhearted juggalos. every "group" is going to have assholes and certain groups are going to attract a specific type of asshole - but the broad brush that horror-core in general and ICP in specific gets painted with does seem, as sourwookie admits, to reach the moral panic level.
posted by nadawi at 6:23 PM on June 19, 2010
i will also say that i've known some shitty, awful, hateful, racist pieces of trash that were juggalos and i've known sweet, caring, and tenderhearted juggalos. every "group" is going to have assholes and certain groups are going to attract a specific type of asshole - but the broad brush that horror-core in general and ICP in specific gets painted with does seem, as sourwookie admits, to reach the moral panic level.
posted by nadawi at 6:23 PM on June 19, 2010
Aren't the lyrics basically "we're totally ignorant, which means we understand the REAL universe"?
Yes. With the underlying premise being "the only book I need to read is the bible". I'm not sure what people are trying to defend here. Just because we could extend the argument out by saying we can't reallllly explain magnets, it is not a justification for plain and simple ignorance. Not to mention shitty music.
It's not uncommon if you go up to a physicist and start asking questions, inevitably at some point they'll just say "it's magic!" It's not a real answer, but it's what you'll get if you keep widdling down the explanation through questions without a proper framework of understanding.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:34 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes. With the underlying premise being "the only book I need to read is the bible". I'm not sure what people are trying to defend here. Just because we could extend the argument out by saying we can't reallllly explain magnets, it is not a justification for plain and simple ignorance. Not to mention shitty music.
It's not uncommon if you go up to a physicist and start asking questions, inevitably at some point they'll just say "it's magic!" It's not a real answer, but it's what you'll get if you keep widdling down the explanation through questions without a proper framework of understanding.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:34 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, what's up with the sudden 'mainstream' pop-cultural relevance of ICP?
I don't think they're really relevant as opposed to 'magnetism' meme reaching escape velocity to get on SNL. They're kind of an interestingly cultish and popular to their fans, but so is any entertainer who dresses funny and puts on makeup(see also KISS. Marilyn Manson, Lady Gaga, etc.) They had that Fuck song a bit ago which also got them a bit of play, so there's also that.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:42 PM on June 19, 2010
I don't think they're really relevant as opposed to 'magnetism' meme reaching escape velocity to get on SNL. They're kind of an interestingly cultish and popular to their fans, but so is any entertainer who dresses funny and puts on makeup(see also KISS. Marilyn Manson, Lady Gaga, etc.) They had that Fuck song a bit ago which also got them a bit of play, so there's also that.
posted by P.o.B. at 6:42 PM on June 19, 2010
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
Hey, krinklyfig, I think uncleozzy stole your car.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 6:48 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hey, krinklyfig, I think uncleozzy stole your car.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 6:48 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, I tried to care about this, but I couldn't bring myself to write more than this one pointless comment.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 7:05 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Salvor Hardin at 7:05 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
Awww yeah, motherfuckin' Aslan all up in this bitch!
posted by limon at 7:12 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Awww yeah, motherfuckin' Aslan all up in this bitch!
posted by limon at 7:12 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
It is simultaneously worrying and liberating that I have gotten old enough that things like this, and Gaga, and all the rest, are topics I neither fully understand nor very much care to.
Worrying because cultural literacy is mildly important to me, even if it's the stream of worthless dross that passes for popular culture in these get-offa-my-lawn days (but then, it's always been worthless dross, it's just that some of it is limned with a nostalgic glow)
Liberating because, you know, less of the pointless ephemera feeding the white noise in the ol' noggin.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:13 PM on June 19, 2010
Worrying because cultural literacy is mildly important to me, even if it's the stream of worthless dross that passes for popular culture in these get-offa-my-lawn days (but then, it's always been worthless dross, it's just that some of it is limned with a nostalgic glow)
Liberating because, you know, less of the pointless ephemera feeding the white noise in the ol' noggin.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:13 PM on June 19, 2010
That's a kind of butt thing to say.
Not really, no.
posted by clarknova at 7:22 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not really, no.
posted by clarknova at 7:22 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
I'd say G. K. Chesterton, actually. I've read more than one essay by G. K. Chesterton where he basically says, "there I was strolling about the English fen in my mackintosh, marveling at the clouds above and the rain pouring down, when a goateed man tried to explain this rain in scientific terms, to rob this moment of magic. 'Tuffleposh," I snorted, and then I shooed him away with my sword cane. Weeks later, I would dip my balls in his soup - bwoop."
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:43 PM on June 19, 2010 [22 favorites]
I'd say G. K. Chesterton, actually. I've read more than one essay by G. K. Chesterton where he basically says, "there I was strolling about the English fen in my mackintosh, marveling at the clouds above and the rain pouring down, when a goateed man tried to explain this rain in scientific terms, to rob this moment of magic. 'Tuffleposh," I snorted, and then I shooed him away with my sword cane. Weeks later, I would dip my balls in his soup - bwoop."
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:43 PM on June 19, 2010 [22 favorites]
Hey, krinklyfig, I think uncleozzy stole your car.
Was that supposed to be an insult?
I'm so confused ...
posted by krinklyfig at 8:02 PM on June 19, 2010
Was that supposed to be an insult?
I'm so confused ...
posted by krinklyfig at 8:02 PM on June 19, 2010
What Jimmythefish said. Never heard a single note of their work, but this is impressive. They've turned trolling into PR. And their fans don't look any stupider than Kiss fans.
posted by fartknocker at 8:45 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by fartknocker at 8:45 PM on June 19, 2010
so, what's next on their agenda - explaining the science of contraceptives to furries?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:56 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:56 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Looks like somebody wasn't paying attention when "wrestling with pigs - yes/no?" came around in social studies.
posted by yhbc at 10:01 PM on June 19, 2010
posted by yhbc at 10:01 PM on June 19, 2010
So ICP can't explore a little Emersonian Transcendentalism in their music? Who are these jack-booted, thought-policing censoring science thugs?
Original song, for the tragically old among us
posted by mecran01 at 10:05 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Original song, for the tragically old among us
posted by mecran01 at 10:05 PM on June 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
pombe: I don't really understand the context here, but I do find it amusing that I know a bunch of the folks that are doing this.
It would be more amusing to me if it weren't the fourth time in a month that I know people in the Metafilter posts. It's really starting to weird me out.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:12 PM on June 19, 2010
It would be more amusing to me if it weren't the fourth time in a month that I know people in the Metafilter posts. It's really starting to weird me out.
posted by Pronoiac at 10:12 PM on June 19, 2010
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
These guys are like Charles Lamb, Benjamin Haydon, John Keats, and William Wordsworth. From the 'immortal dinner', December 28, 1817:
CP Snow's 'Two Cultures' have been with us for a long time, and show no sign of going away. Although we may not like to acknowledge it, ICP are part of the humanistic culture, not the scientific. Deal with it.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 12:37 AM on June 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
These guys are like Charles Lamb, Benjamin Haydon, John Keats, and William Wordsworth. From the 'immortal dinner', December 28, 1817:
[Charles Lamb] then, in a strain of humour beyond description, abused me for putting Newton's head into my picture [Haydon's heroically-sized painting of Christ entering Jerusalem],--'a fellow,' said he, 'who believed nothing unless it was as clear as the three sides of a triangle.' And then he and Keats agreed [Newton] had destroyed all the poetry of the rainbow by reducing it to the prismatic colours. It was impossible to resist him, and we all drank 'Newton's health, and confusion to mathematics.'Or perhaps they are like Blake:
The Atoms of DemocritusOr perhaps they are like any strong postmodernist who maintains that science is merely another narrative, which is not specially privileged over other competing narratives. Such as magic.
And Newton's Particles of Light
Are sands upon the Red Sea shore,
Where Israel's tents do shine so bright.
CP Snow's 'Two Cultures' have been with us for a long time, and show no sign of going away. Although we may not like to acknowledge it, ICP are part of the humanistic culture, not the scientific. Deal with it.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 12:37 AM on June 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
There are two kinds of cultures in the world: one that subscribes to the two cultures theory, and...
posted by speicus at 1:00 AM on June 20, 2010
posted by speicus at 1:00 AM on June 20, 2010
and...?!
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 1:12 AM on June 20, 2010
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 1:12 AM on June 20, 2010
I believe that we have been trolled. Has anyone cornered the Noisebridge folks to ask if they were trying to drum up publicity for a crappy clown western DVD release?
posted by crataegus at 3:21 AM on June 20, 2010
posted by crataegus at 3:21 AM on June 20, 2010
You can lead a Juggalo to science, but you can't make him think.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:17 AM on June 20, 2010
posted by octobersurprise at 7:17 AM on June 20, 2010
I believe that we have been trolled. Has anyone cornered the Noisebridge folks to ask if they were trying to drum up publicity for a crappy clown western DVD release?
Bwuh? Maybe I'm missing something in one of your links, but I don't see how a fairly obscure bunch of people putting on clown makeup and talking about science does much to promote a movie starring a band that routinely has thousands of people show up at its concerts. I can, however, see how putting on clown makeup and talking about science outside one of that band's concerts could be read as self-promotion for said fairly obscure bunch of people.
Whoever said upthread that the band had the science guys chased off because they'd seen the lead-up online and hadn't actually seen the pleasant interaction between Noisebridge and the juggalos had it right, I suspect. I get a "and a good time was had by all" vibe from the whole affair.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:21 AM on June 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Bwuh? Maybe I'm missing something in one of your links, but I don't see how a fairly obscure bunch of people putting on clown makeup and talking about science does much to promote a movie starring a band that routinely has thousands of people show up at its concerts. I can, however, see how putting on clown makeup and talking about science outside one of that band's concerts could be read as self-promotion for said fairly obscure bunch of people.
Whoever said upthread that the band had the science guys chased off because they'd seen the lead-up online and hadn't actually seen the pleasant interaction between Noisebridge and the juggalos had it right, I suspect. I get a "and a good time was had by all" vibe from the whole affair.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:21 AM on June 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, there's a video of the event. It doesn't have live audio but I don't see any of the concertgoers getting puffed up or anything.
Noisebrige has a project page on the event that made me laugh and I recommend everyone who has made it all the way down here at least give a glance. (It's sort of the finished product of the discussions kindly linked upthread by finite.)
posted by vapidave at 9:55 AM on June 20, 2010
Noisebrige has a project page on the event that made me laugh and I recommend everyone who has made it all the way down here at least give a glance. (It's sort of the finished product of the discussions kindly linked upthread by finite.)
posted by vapidave at 9:55 AM on June 20, 2010
Another video I should have said. I'm going back in the box until I get my mind right.
posted by vapidave at 10:31 AM on June 20, 2010
posted by vapidave at 10:31 AM on June 20, 2010
Uh ... So, these guys are like CS Lewis?
Fuckin' Wardrobes! How do they work?
posted by KingEdRa at 11:34 AM on June 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Fuckin' Wardrobes! How do they work?
posted by KingEdRa at 11:34 AM on June 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
this one is a complete loop now, since Noisebridge has linked their wiki article on this affair back to this post.
this continues to prey unhealthily on my mind.
posted by warbaby at 3:10 PM on June 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
this continues to prey unhealthily on my mind.
posted by warbaby at 3:10 PM on June 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
The real question here is, what does Lady Gaga think of all this? And where is today's Lady Gaga FPP?
posted by happyroach at 6:50 PM on June 20, 2010
posted by happyroach at 6:50 PM on June 20, 2010
"I don't want to talk to a scientist, y'all motherfuckers are lying" is intentionally, unambiguously insulting to scientists.
Or maybe just a joke?
"Nextwave know that science is a trick on white people and that the shamans of the mountains, the jungle, the desert and the steppe have hated Stephen Hawking for five thousand years."
posted by straight at 11:57 PM on June 20, 2010
Or maybe just a joke?
"Nextwave know that science is a trick on white people and that the shamans of the mountains, the jungle, the desert and the steppe have hated Stephen Hawking for five thousand years."
posted by straight at 11:57 PM on June 20, 2010
And C.S. Lewis "angrily eschewing science"? I think you're confusing him with someone else.
posted by straight at 12:15 AM on June 21, 2010
posted by straight at 12:15 AM on June 21, 2010
Thanks to a recent obsession with Better Off Ted, I can't see the word "scientist" without imagining Jonathan Slavin and Malcolm Barrett in lab coats.
It's too bad the show was cancelled - I'd love to see Phil and Lem take on ICP.
posted by anthom at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2010
It's too bad the show was cancelled - I'd love to see Phil and Lem take on ICP.
posted by anthom at 10:13 AM on June 21, 2010
Wait, Better Off Ted was cancelled? I lived that show!
*pours a vial of self-replicating booze onto the ground*
posted by Pronoiac at 2:39 PM on June 21, 2010
*pours a vial of self-replicating booze onto the ground*
posted by Pronoiac at 2:39 PM on June 21, 2010
Better Off Ted was great and I hope everybody involved moves on to a better-paying job.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:14 PM on June 21, 2010
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:14 PM on June 21, 2010
CP Snow's 'Two Cultures' have been with us for a long time, and show no sign of going away. Although we may not like to acknowledge it, ICP are part of the humanistic culture, not the scientific. Deal with it.
Don't worry- I'm dealing with it.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:07 PM on June 22, 2010
Don't worry- I'm dealing with it.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:07 PM on June 22, 2010
And C.S. Lewis "angrily eschewing science"? I think you're confusing him with someone else.
Have you ever read Perelandra (the Space Trilogy)?
posted by krinklyfig at 3:08 PM on June 22, 2010
Have you ever read Perelandra (the Space Trilogy)?
posted by krinklyfig at 3:08 PM on June 22, 2010
Lewis is pretty clear that the villains in his Space Trilogy are men who have forsaken science for a sort pseudo-religious combination of Social Darwinism and worship of Progress.
He's caricaturing some of what Lewis saw as the weirder ideas of people like H.G. Wells and Olaf Stapeldon. He's not attacking actual scientists like Darwin.
posted by straight at 10:57 PM on June 22, 2010
He's caricaturing some of what Lewis saw as the weirder ideas of people like H.G. Wells and Olaf Stapeldon. He's not attacking actual scientists like Darwin.
posted by straight at 10:57 PM on June 22, 2010
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