Little Brother Arrested Prior to G20
June 23, 2010 6:57 PM Subscribe
Byron Sonne, a respected computer security specialist, has been arrested on G20-related charges..
He is also a licensed private investigator and member of HackLabTO, a hacker collective. HackLab has released a statement. A former colleague weighs in.
His twitter, flickr, and linkedin.
Previously.
He is also a licensed private investigator and member of HackLabTO, a hacker collective. HackLab has released a statement. A former colleague weighs in.
His twitter, flickr, and linkedin.
Previously.
Is monitoring police scanners illegal in Canada? You can buy a scanner from Radio Shack and listen into US police pretty easily.
posted by octothorpe at 7:09 PM on June 23, 2010
posted by octothorpe at 7:09 PM on June 23, 2010
I wasn't aware that our criminal code included a section labeled "G20".
posted by fatbird at 7:10 PM on June 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by fatbird at 7:10 PM on June 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, if the G20 and other such conferences weren't about fucking people over then maybe, just maybe, there wouldn't be massive protests?
posted by sotonohito at 7:14 PM on June 23, 2010 [11 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 7:14 PM on June 23, 2010 [11 favorites]
I was also wondering if monitoring and retransmitting the content on police frequencies was illegal in Canada. Of course, it doesn't have to be illegal, the whole strategy here is to arrest someone to make them unable to do that legal-but-inconvenient thing for the critical time period.
Which pisses me off to no end. That sort of thing is probably theoretically illegal, but I'd like to see it made explicitly illegal, with heavy fines and firing possible punishment for the police involved.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:14 PM on June 23, 2010
Which pisses me off to no end. That sort of thing is probably theoretically illegal, but I'd like to see it made explicitly illegal, with heavy fines and firing possible punishment for the police involved.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:14 PM on June 23, 2010
A fantastic CBC Radio discussion on the current security state and how it fits into a greater Canadian political context.
[disclosure, one panelist is my academic advisor]
posted by avocet at 7:14 PM on June 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
[disclosure, one panelist is my academic advisor]
posted by avocet at 7:14 PM on June 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Anything that is necessary so that the most expensive dick waving competition in history can go forwards undisturbed.
posted by Artw at 7:15 PM on June 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:15 PM on June 23, 2010 [4 favorites]
There is a certain amount of consternation in the local MTB community that the cops will being going through his contact list and investigating everyone on it. There is also speculation that he may have deliberately engineered his own arrest to prove a point, which I think is quite possible.
posted by unSane at 7:19 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by unSane at 7:19 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Isn't the police a protection force that we have decided to create to protect us and we taxpayers are the one taking the toll on this (Equipment, salaries, police stations etc.) I will say it again: "created to protect us?"
posted by CRESTA at 7:33 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by CRESTA at 7:33 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is total bullshit.
posted by GuyZero at 7:42 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 7:42 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
In Canada, the laws talk about it being illegal to disclose information gained from listening to transmissions of which you are not the intended recipient.
From the Canadian RadioTelecommuncations Act(pdf) Sec. 9 (1.1, 2)
Prohibitions
(e) retransmit to the public an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted
network feed that has been decoded in contravention of paragraph (c).
Prohibition (1.1) Except as prescribed, no person shall make use of or divulge a radio-based telephone communication
(a) if the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the
communication to receive it was in Canada when the communication was made; and
(b) unless the originator, or the person intended by the originator to receive the communication consents to the use or divulgence.
(2) Except as prescribed, no person shall intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it.
posted by HLD at 7:47 PM on June 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
From the Canadian RadioTelecommuncations Act(pdf) Sec. 9 (1.1, 2)
Prohibitions
(e) retransmit to the public an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted
network feed that has been decoded in contravention of paragraph (c).
Prohibition (1.1) Except as prescribed, no person shall make use of or divulge a radio-based telephone communication
(a) if the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the
communication to receive it was in Canada when the communication was made; and
(b) unless the originator, or the person intended by the originator to receive the communication consents to the use or divulgence.
(2) Except as prescribed, no person shall intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it.
posted by HLD at 7:47 PM on June 23, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think David Frum is on to something. The G20 was a much better band back before they made it big and changed their name. World leaders could just hang out and jam about the latest economic developments, no sheet music, no agenda, no itinerary.
Now it's just gigantic arena rock with huge screaming fans and mosh pits. And ever since the band doubled in size to appeal to a wider audience, sessions take forever -- everyone has to have their solo. Plus, with larger audiences and journalistic scrutiny, the impetus for improvisation is gone. I can't even think of anything they've done the past four years that's worth mentioning.
posted by pwnguin at 7:50 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Now it's just gigantic arena rock with huge screaming fans and mosh pits. And ever since the band doubled in size to appeal to a wider audience, sessions take forever -- everyone has to have their solo. Plus, with larger audiences and journalistic scrutiny, the impetus for improvisation is gone. I can't even think of anything they've done the past four years that's worth mentioning.
posted by pwnguin at 7:50 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
G20 is a crime?
posted by delmoi at 7:51 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
According to acquaintances and former colleagues, however, Sonne is not the type to participate in terrorist activities and more likely just an activist and “agent provocateur.”I don't think they understand what an Agent Provocateur is. Also,
Hirsh said Sonne attended the G20-themed meeting and made a presentation where he shared plans for using a radio scanner to monitor police activity during the summit and feed information to protesters via Twitter. The same tactic was used during the Pittsburgh G20 and helped give protesters a leg up on security plans.In the U.S. Police Scanners are legal, and lots of people have them. He probably didn't realize that wasn't case in Canada.
posted by delmoi at 7:51 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm sure he knew exactly what was legal and what wasn't.
posted by unSane at 7:55 PM on June 23, 2010
posted by unSane at 7:55 PM on June 23, 2010
You can buy a scanner from Radio Shack and listen into US police pretty easily.
You can also get arrested for being an activist pretty easily in the US - police did this very thing after the last G20 summit in P-burg. The difference is that Toronto cops learned from that one, are a little more on top of things, and made the arrest before the summit.
posted by regicide is good for you at 7:56 PM on June 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
You can also get arrested for being an activist pretty easily in the US - police did this very thing after the last G20 summit in P-burg. The difference is that Toronto cops learned from that one, are a little more on top of things, and made the arrest before the summit.
posted by regicide is good for you at 7:56 PM on June 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Digital scanners are legal in Canada, but less clear are the issues around retransmitting (if that is what you would call streaming the audio to the net or editorializing to twitter). Part of it is the 'intended recipient' bit. If the police don't want the public to listen in, they can always encrypt their conversations- Decrypting and retransmitting is more likely illegal (Sec. 9 e).
posted by HLD at 8:04 PM on June 23, 2010
posted by HLD at 8:04 PM on June 23, 2010
From the first link:
Sonne’s tweets suggest he has already been listening in on police communications with a radio scanner, a practice that is legal and used by many news outlets to stay abreast of breaking news.
posted by skwt at 8:18 PM on June 23, 2010
Sonne’s tweets suggest he has already been listening in on police communications with a radio scanner, a practice that is legal and used by many news outlets to stay abreast of breaking news.
posted by skwt at 8:18 PM on June 23, 2010
“It’s strange. These are very affluent people,” said a man who did not want to give his name, but said he also lived on Elderwood. “This is one of the richest areas.”
And everyone knows rich people don't commit crimes!
But seriously. First of all, the reports all day, prior to Sonne's name being released, have mentioned explosives. So does the indictment. It's possible that he's been buying flagged items as a provocation, and the explosive charge is really the main arrest, the other stuff secondary charges. I dunno.
However, there's Sonne was charged with intimidation of a justice system participant by threat, intimidation of justice system participant by watch and beset. Which is almost certainly crazy, and probably just a scattershot by the prosecution. The section of the code this refers to is probably
And everyone knows rich people don't commit crimes!
But seriously. First of all, the reports all day, prior to Sonne's name being released, have mentioned explosives. So does the indictment. It's possible that he's been buying flagged items as a provocation, and the explosive charge is really the main arrest, the other stuff secondary charges. I dunno.
However, there's Sonne was charged with intimidation of a justice system participant by threat, intimidation of justice system participant by watch and beset. Which is almost certainly crazy, and probably just a scattershot by the prosecution. The section of the code this refers to is probably
423.1posted by Lemurrhea at 8:27 PM on June 23, 2010
(1) No person shall, without lawful authority, engage in conduct referred to in subsection (2) with the intent to provoke a state of fear in
(a) a group of persons or the general public in order to impede the administration of criminal justice;
(b) a justice system participant in order to impede him or her in the performance of his or her duties; or
(c) a journalist in order to impede him or her in the transmission to the public of information in relation to a criminal organization.
Prohibited conduct
(2) The conduct referred to in subsection (1) consists of
(a) using violence against a justice system participant or a journalist or anyone known to either of them or destroying or causing damage to the property of any of those persons;
(b) threatening to engage in conduct described in paragraph (a) in Canada or elsewhere;
(c) persistently or repeatedly following a justice system participant or a journalist or anyone known to either of them, including following that person in a disorderly manner on a highway;
(d) repeatedly communicating with, either directly or indirectly, a justice system participant or a journalist or anyone known to either of them; and
(e) besetting or watching the place where a justice system participant or a journalist or anyone known to either of them resides, works, attends school, carries on business or happens to be.
You'll note that there has to be intent to provoke a state of fear, and also that fear has to be in order to impede the judicial system or a journalist's dissemination of organization about a gang.
The cases where "watching and besetting" or threatening have been cited (in Lexis) involve 1) A guy following the person who was his prosecutor in a previous trial [I think; my french is bad]
2) murdering, in prison, a former Hell's Angels contract killer turned informant.
3) Threatening an RCMP staff psychologist during an interview while on parole.
4) Emailing threats to the engineering profession after losing his license.
That'll get thrown out so fucking fast.
As far as I can tell from his Flickr and Twitter feeds, he was taking a lot of pics of cops and security cameras, and making a point of withholding his identity when he spoke with them. I imagine something in there is the presumptive basis but it seems incredibly flimsy.
posted by unSane at 8:34 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by unSane at 8:34 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine got arrested during G20 protests in his home town, because he happened to be riding his bicycle down an alley a few blocks away, turned a corner, and -- surprised to see some cops in a bunch right in front of him -- tried to turn his bike around and fell off.
This G20, it is apparently serious business.
posted by davejay at 9:31 PM on June 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
This G20, it is apparently serious business.
posted by davejay at 9:31 PM on June 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Dasein, are we in the same city? Because I've been seeing more groups of like seventy cops walking around. Seriously. I was in Bellevue Square in Kensington Market (a pretty drug-dealing-y park for non-locals) on the weekend and about that many cops on foot showed up and just kind of strolled around for an hour. They outnumbered the non-cop people about 5 to 1.
posted by skwt at 9:38 PM on June 23, 2010
posted by skwt at 9:38 PM on June 23, 2010
Pre-emptive arrest, to sequester him during the conference. Once finished, he'll be released without charges. Just watch.
posted by FormlessOne at 9:48 PM on June 23, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by FormlessOne at 9:48 PM on June 23, 2010 [10 favorites]
And the explosives will almost certainly turn out to be something like a canister of gasoline and a few empty beer bottles.
posted by twirlip at 10:04 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by twirlip at 10:04 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ah, I originally read the opener as 'Byron Sonne, a respected computer security specialist, has been arrested on 620-related charges.. '
Sort of anticlimactic now.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:05 PM on June 23, 2010
Sort of anticlimactic now.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:05 PM on June 23, 2010
I'm watching this with interest as he sounds like he knows his rights and is not going to be intimidated and willing to challenge the system when it overreaches its powers. This is the sort of case that can backfire against the police and help remind people - the police, and the public - what rights we actually have.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:39 PM on June 23, 2010
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:39 PM on June 23, 2010
From his twitter feed:
don't forget design flaw in most G20 fence: holes are small enough to thread big bolts in for extra leverage and grip
see what I mean? tiny holes (pic)
More on the fences of G20, and G20 security in general.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 AM on June 24, 2010
don't forget design flaw in most G20 fence: holes are small enough to thread big bolts in for extra leverage and grip
see what I mean? tiny holes (pic)
More on the fences of G20, and G20 security in general.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 AM on June 24, 2010
Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, if the G20 and other such conferences governments and major corporations weren't about fucking people over then maybe, just maybe, there wouldn't be massive protests?
The reason to protest isn't the G20, it's all the parts that make up the G20 (IMF, World Bank, globalization, industrial-military complex, humanitarian and environmental issues from around the world). These conferences are a vortex for protest, gathering people who may not protest together into one highly militarized space with a lot of news coverage on the protesters and not so much on their causes, all of which amplifies the activities. Separate these governments and corporations, and there would only be small groups protesting at any given time.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
The reason to protest isn't the G20, it's all the parts that make up the G20 (IMF, World Bank, globalization, industrial-military complex, humanitarian and environmental issues from around the world). These conferences are a vortex for protest, gathering people who may not protest together into one highly militarized space with a lot of news coverage on the protesters and not so much on their causes, all of which amplifies the activities. Separate these governments and corporations, and there would only be small groups protesting at any given time.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:14 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
The protesters should just go to Ottawa and protest there. That would be pretty funny.
posted by delmoi at 4:44 AM on June 24, 2010
posted by delmoi at 4:44 AM on June 24, 2010
Someone else has been charged, and apparently through the same investigation, with explosives charges and weapons charges.
posted by Lemurrhea at 4:56 AM on June 24, 2010
posted by Lemurrhea at 4:56 AM on June 24, 2010
FTFY. Additionally, his wife was arrested the next day.Byron Sonne, a respected computer security specialist, has been arrested on G20-related charges..
Respected computer security specialist Byron Sonne and his wife has been arrested on charges stemming from a G20-related investigation.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:07 AM on June 24, 2010
Oh goddamn it.
They HAVE been charged. Have been. No coffee yet.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:09 AM on June 24, 2010
They HAVE been charged. Have been. No coffee yet.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:09 AM on June 24, 2010
I have felt for the past decade, and I feel even more so at the present time, that there should be no more meetings in person of government officials from different countries, no conferences of whatever sort, to which people travel to physically attend. It creates endless problems, invites troublesome protests, creates too tempting a target for serious violence or just for petty vandalism, and is ridiculously expensive at a time when governments everywhere are massively in debt and depend on deficit spending. The more than a billion dollars in security costs alone, for the current G20 meeting, is borrowed money. This is very reckless spending. It shows a lack of respect by the Canadian government for the money they extract from the Candian public.
I do believe that there are issues which require governments to confer with other governments. This can be done easily, cheaply, and safely by the use of video conferenceing or simple email. The technology exists. But these gigantic meetings apparently gratify the feeling of self-importance of our world leaders. It's just a huge exercise in egotism. It has to stop.
posted by grizzled at 5:15 AM on June 24, 2010
I do believe that there are issues which require governments to confer with other governments. This can be done easily, cheaply, and safely by the use of video conferenceing or simple email. The technology exists. But these gigantic meetings apparently gratify the feeling of self-importance of our world leaders. It's just a huge exercise in egotism. It has to stop.
posted by grizzled at 5:15 AM on June 24, 2010
Maybe the G20 organizers should ask themselves why they need so much security.
posted by Legomancer at 5:58 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Legomancer at 5:58 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
grizzled: "there should be no more meetings in person of government officials from different countries"
How about we amend this to different countries who are friendly with each other? Then we make it a rule for everyone to sit down with their enemies and have tea at least once a week.
posted by charred husk at 6:04 AM on June 24, 2010
How about we amend this to different countries who are friendly with each other? Then we make it a rule for everyone to sit down with their enemies and have tea at least once a week.
posted by charred husk at 6:04 AM on June 24, 2010
Then we make it a rule for everyone to sit down with their enemies and have tea at least once a week.
Better still, require them to watch one another's national sport at each meeting.
posted by lodurr at 6:25 AM on June 24, 2010
Better still, require them to watch one another's national sport at each meeting.
posted by lodurr at 6:25 AM on June 24, 2010
The police are on edge because there was some indication of real, if badly organized, threat this time. Three men were arrested a couple of weeks ago after firebombing a bank in Ottawa. They were found with a significant amount of explosives and a weapons cache. Their manifesto claimed that they were behind some of the rioting in Vancouver during the Olympics and that they going to be active during G8/G20.
posted by bonehead at 6:27 AM on June 24, 2010
posted by bonehead at 6:27 AM on June 24, 2010
Anyone else remember when Phlly police working with the FBI raided a puppet-making workshop during the RNC in 2000 and alleged that paint thinner was a bomb? And held a protest organizer with a million-dollar bail for posession of a Palm Pilot?
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:29 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:29 AM on June 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
The people in the G20 aren't really 'enemies', and the original G8 was just western countries. It started out with just six, then added Canada, then Russia after the fall of communism. Now we have the G20. What's interesting is that there was already a "G20" of developing nations that started in 2003, compared with the 'main' G20 which started in 2008, it sounds like.
posted by delmoi at 6:49 AM on June 24, 2010
But these gigantic meetings apparently gratify the feeling of self-importance of our world leaders. It's just a huge exercise in egotism. It has to stop.There's no reason not to meet, the question is why they would want to have the conference rotate every year if it's really this expensive. Spending $1 billion on security just seems insane.
posted by delmoi at 6:49 AM on June 24, 2010
And the explosives will almost certainly turn out to be something like a canister of gasoline and a few empty beer bottles.
If he actually had those in his possession in a way that suggested they were going to be used together, it would be serious and would be an unfortunate vindication of the idea that violence was meant. However, I'm skeptical based on past history that anything like that will be found; the guy doesn't sound that stupid.
There may be some 'protesters' (in my mind, a protester with a firebomb is no longer a 'protester'; they're at best a moronic criminal and at worst a terrorist) who are looking at the G20 as an attempt to set some shit on fire, but Sonne doesn't seem like the type.
I suspect they're just throwing charges at him figuring that the longer the list, the longer it'll take his lawyers to spring him, and the less he can do during the conference. It reeks of a preemptive 'round up the troublemakers' strategy.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:04 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
If he actually had those in his possession in a way that suggested they were going to be used together, it would be serious and would be an unfortunate vindication of the idea that violence was meant. However, I'm skeptical based on past history that anything like that will be found; the guy doesn't sound that stupid.
There may be some 'protesters' (in my mind, a protester with a firebomb is no longer a 'protester'; they're at best a moronic criminal and at worst a terrorist) who are looking at the G20 as an attempt to set some shit on fire, but Sonne doesn't seem like the type.
I suspect they're just throwing charges at him figuring that the longer the list, the longer it'll take his lawyers to spring him, and the less he can do during the conference. It reeks of a preemptive 'round up the troublemakers' strategy.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:04 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Isn't the police a protection force that we have decided to create to protect us and we taxpayers are the one taking the toll on this (Equipment, salaries, police stations etc.) I will say it again: "created to protect us?"
That's basically true, but you forgot an important step in the process. The police protect us by enforcing the laws. Sometimes the police over react, and sometimes the laws are over broad, but the other side of the coin is that we don't want the police to be the judges. If they see something they believe is against Law X, they should cite or arrest.
This arrest smells like bullshit, but I can also see where "listening to police communications" is a lot different from "retransmitting them". It broadens the scope from curiosity to helping the criminals evade (or target) the police.
posted by gjc at 7:31 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
That's basically true, but you forgot an important step in the process. The police protect us by enforcing the laws. Sometimes the police over react, and sometimes the laws are over broad, but the other side of the coin is that we don't want the police to be the judges. If they see something they believe is against Law X, they should cite or arrest.
This arrest smells like bullshit, but I can also see where "listening to police communications" is a lot different from "retransmitting them". It broadens the scope from curiosity to helping the criminals evade (or target) the police.
posted by gjc at 7:31 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree that it feels like an arrest to put him away during the summit. And a biased search of anyone's garage could probably produce several items deemed "explosive," so hopefully that's all that is.
This is kind of unfortunate, though:
In high school, Sonne reportedly planted a fake bomb that resulted in his school being evacuated, causing classmates to vote him “most likely to become an international terrorist” in their yearbook, according to a former schoolmate.
posted by chococat at 8:03 AM on June 24, 2010
This is kind of unfortunate, though:
In high school, Sonne reportedly planted a fake bomb that resulted in his school being evacuated, causing classmates to vote him “most likely to become an international terrorist” in their yearbook, according to a former schoolmate.
posted by chococat at 8:03 AM on June 24, 2010
This is a fascinating story... I'll be curious to see what comes of it, and if he actually *does* have explosives, and not just a bag of fertilizer for his garden. Considering his wife was later arrested, it doesn't *sound* like they're just trumping up charges to keep him in custody until the summit is over.
posted by antifuse at 8:04 AM on June 24, 2010
posted by antifuse at 8:04 AM on June 24, 2010
He also faces charges of mischief and intimidating a justice system participant.
Intimidating? Would that be from the black t-shirt and what his high-school classmates wrote in his yearbook?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:18 AM on June 24, 2010
Intimidating? Would that be from the black t-shirt and what his high-school classmates wrote in his yearbook?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:18 AM on June 24, 2010
Intimidating? Would that be from the black t-shirt and what his high-school classmates wrote in his yearbook?
I wonder if his statements about listening in on police radio and giving that information to protesters would be considered attempted intimidation of the police? ie "Hey police, I'm gonna tell the protesters exactly where you are so they can come and get you?"
Seems like a stretch, but who knows. For fuck's sake, they pulled up saplings lest they be used as weapons by protestors. There seems to be no end to the madness in town these days.
posted by antifuse at 8:37 AM on June 24, 2010
I wonder if his statements about listening in on police radio and giving that information to protesters would be considered attempted intimidation of the police? ie "Hey police, I'm gonna tell the protesters exactly where you are so they can come and get you?"
Seems like a stretch, but who knows. For fuck's sake, they pulled up saplings lest they be used as weapons by protestors. There seems to be no end to the madness in town these days.
posted by antifuse at 8:37 AM on June 24, 2010
When knowing things is outlawed, only outlaws will know things.
posted by fuq at 8:48 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fuq at 8:48 AM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
From Lemurrhea's link:
posted by twirlip at 9:17 AM on June 24, 2010
He is accused of obtaining the ingredients to make triacetone triperoxide... Friends say he talked about obtaining the “chemical precursors” to explosives “in an attempt to purposefully raise flags and get ‘the man’ to take a look at me... but no luck,” as he wrote on an online forum for HackLab T.O. last fall.A quick Google search suggests the "chemical precursors" of triacetone triperoxide are relatively common household products.
posted by twirlip at 9:17 AM on June 24, 2010
Yeah - if he actually had been recently buying sizable quantities of TATP-precursors, I'm not sure that the cops overreacted in arresting him. The wiki page implies that it's non infrequently used for bombings. They probably can't tell the difference between someone actually buying them to make bombs, and someone trying to look like they're trying to make bombs, for obvious reasons.
Now I still think the intimidation charges are going to get thrown out. Is there a "wasting police resources, you're a dick" offense?
posted by Lemurrhea at 9:54 AM on June 24, 2010
Now I still think the intimidation charges are going to get thrown out. Is there a "wasting police resources, you're a dick" offense?
posted by Lemurrhea at 9:54 AM on June 24, 2010
At risk of being called naive, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that cops keeping that close an eye on someone's purchasing of cleaning supplies scares me a hell of a lot more than the idea that someone might try to make a bomb with them. Based on what I know of world history, the tendency of people to produce actually harmful bombs is pretty much in inverse ratio to the amount of political freedom in their society.
posted by lodurr at 9:58 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by lodurr at 9:58 AM on June 24, 2010 [3 favorites]
When knowing things is outlawed, only outlaws will know things.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
because I am a good, law-abiding citizen
posted by davejay at 10:40 AM on June 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
I have no idea what you mean by this.
because I am a good, law-abiding citizen
posted by davejay at 10:40 AM on June 24, 2010 [4 favorites]
That's the first time I've ever gotten the fail whale for Twitter...
posted by codacorolla at 12:25 PM on June 24, 2010
posted by codacorolla at 12:25 PM on June 24, 2010
I've heard from another Hacklab member that the explosives were related to building model rocket engines. No idea about the veracity of that though.
posted by mendel at 7:15 PM on June 24, 2010
posted by mendel at 7:15 PM on June 24, 2010
Sonne's server hosts a lot of interesting stuff related to scanning, including this general guide to radio security. (pdf) (Via the ScanOnt mailing list.)
posted by HLD at 7:29 PM on June 24, 2010
posted by HLD at 7:29 PM on June 24, 2010
G20 law gives police sweeping powers to arrest people
Man arrested and left in wire cage under new G20 law
The province has secretly passed an unprecedented regulation that empowers police to arrest anyone near the G20 security zone who refuses to identify themselves or agree to a police search.
posted by PercussivePaul at 11:56 PM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Man arrested and left in wire cage under new G20 law
The province has secretly passed an unprecedented regulation that empowers police to arrest anyone near the G20 security zone who refuses to identify themselves or agree to a police search.
posted by PercussivePaul at 11:56 PM on June 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Nothing on the information page linked by the twitter posts is really new - it just says that police can stop and search you if you want to go into the zone. That's hardly a surprise, or a problem.
This would be reasonable if it were true. However, as the stories linked by PercussivePaul demonstrate, you can be arrested for going near the zone, which might strike one as both surprising and problematic.
Fortunately I have been assured by G20 Director General Sanjeev Chowdhury (linked here in segment 1) that the 40,000 or so people who live in the core are not actually there.
"Don't forget that we are hosting the G20 in Toronto on a Saturday and Sunday," said Chowdhury. "By and large, the downtown core is empty. It is pretty much business heavy. That was one consideration when we chose the location."
All those buildings on the waterfront which I had been told were condos? Nobody there. At least no one who counts. So that is all right, then.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:31 AM on June 25, 2010
This would be reasonable if it were true. However, as the stories linked by PercussivePaul demonstrate, you can be arrested for going near the zone, which might strike one as both surprising and problematic.
Fortunately I have been assured by G20 Director General Sanjeev Chowdhury (linked here in segment 1) that the 40,000 or so people who live in the core are not actually there.
"Don't forget that we are hosting the G20 in Toronto on a Saturday and Sunday," said Chowdhury. "By and large, the downtown core is empty. It is pretty much business heavy. That was one consideration when we chose the location."
All those buildings on the waterfront which I had been told were condos? Nobody there. At least no one who counts. So that is all right, then.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:31 AM on June 25, 2010
A few more data points:
-- Pix on his Flickr stream seem to show that he was building and experimenting with cannons to fire objects like shallots and Ikea candles, and recording the results. I can't figure out if they're powered by compressed air or propane, but it certainly might explain some of the weapons talk.
-- Byron abruptly dropped out of public view (mountain bike forums etc) about two or three years ago a few months after quitting his job to become the self-appointed (but very effective) custodian of the mountain bike trails in Toronto's Don Valley where he built many of the wooden bridges. Before that he had been extremely vocal. I remember someone speculating that he was dropping out to cool off, possibly at the suggestion of his wife, after getting involved in a lot of arguments and confrontations.
-- I have heard some private speculation that he may have had some recent mental health issues. I don't think there's any specific evidence of this... I think it was more of an attempt to explain his sudden decision to quit his job and drop out of public view.
posted by unSane at 4:57 AM on June 25, 2010
-- Pix on his Flickr stream seem to show that he was building and experimenting with cannons to fire objects like shallots and Ikea candles, and recording the results. I can't figure out if they're powered by compressed air or propane, but it certainly might explain some of the weapons talk.
-- Byron abruptly dropped out of public view (mountain bike forums etc) about two or three years ago a few months after quitting his job to become the self-appointed (but very effective) custodian of the mountain bike trails in Toronto's Don Valley where he built many of the wooden bridges. Before that he had been extremely vocal. I remember someone speculating that he was dropping out to cool off, possibly at the suggestion of his wife, after getting involved in a lot of arguments and confrontations.
-- I have heard some private speculation that he may have had some recent mental health issues. I don't think there's any specific evidence of this... I think it was more of an attempt to explain his sudden decision to quit his job and drop out of public view.
posted by unSane at 4:57 AM on June 25, 2010
Couple more things
-- on his Flickr stream it's evident that stuff he was being shipped was being inspected by border security, and he was recording this, which may well have been part of what he was interested in.
-- I've heard that a 'friend' may have turned him in. Whether this was really a friend who was getting concerned for him, or an agent provacateur, I've no idea.
posted by unSane at 5:00 AM on June 25, 2010
-- on his Flickr stream it's evident that stuff he was being shipped was being inspected by border security, and he was recording this, which may well have been part of what he was interested in.
-- I've heard that a 'friend' may have turned him in. Whether this was really a friend who was getting concerned for him, or an agent provacateur, I've no idea.
posted by unSane at 5:00 AM on June 25, 2010
There's also this contraption, which seems to be some kind of magnetron.
Nearby in the Flickr stream are lots of photos of microwave antennae, including cellphone towers and communications dishes, so I'm wondering if it was intended to jam communications.
posted by unSane at 5:19 AM on June 25, 2010
Nearby in the Flickr stream are lots of photos of microwave antennae, including cellphone towers and communications dishes, so I'm wondering if it was intended to jam communications.
posted by unSane at 5:19 AM on June 25, 2010
All those buildings on the waterfront which I had been told were condos? Nobody there. At least no one who counts. So that is all right, then.
You realize that none of those waterfront condos are actually in the security zone, right?
I haven't been down to that section of downtown in a few months, but from what I can recall, the security zone doesn't enclose many residential buildings at all.
posted by antifuse at 6:07 AM on June 25, 2010
You realize that none of those waterfront condos are actually in the security zone, right?
I haven't been down to that section of downtown in a few months, but from what I can recall, the security zone doesn't enclose many residential buildings at all.
posted by antifuse at 6:07 AM on June 25, 2010
The province has secretly passed an unprecedented regulation that empowers police to arrest anyone near the G20 security zone who refuses to identify themselves or agree to a police search.
Holy shit.
The new regulation was made under the Public Works Protection Act. Presumably they have declared the G20 zone a "public work" for the duration of the conference. In other words, there is a fig leaf of legality to cover this blatant violation of Charter rights. The fact that the regulation was made secretly -- so that anyone arrested for violating it could not possibly have known they were breaking the law -- is just disgusting.
This is what a police state looks like.
posted by twirlip at 12:55 PM on June 25, 2010
Holy shit.
The new regulation was made under the Public Works Protection Act. Presumably they have declared the G20 zone a "public work" for the duration of the conference. In other words, there is a fig leaf of legality to cover this blatant violation of Charter rights. The fact that the regulation was made secretly -- so that anyone arrested for violating it could not possibly have known they were breaking the law -- is just disgusting.
This is what a police state looks like.
posted by twirlip at 12:55 PM on June 25, 2010
This is what a police state looks like.
The best part is that turfing the provincial Liberals who passed this illegal regulation will worsen the hostile behavior toward Toronto from other levels of government.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 2:32 PM on June 25, 2010
The best part is that turfing the provincial Liberals who passed this illegal regulation will worsen the hostile behavior toward Toronto from other levels of government.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 2:32 PM on June 25, 2010
The strange case of the artist and the hacker: Byron Sonne and Kristen Peterson make a most unlikely security threat
posted by homunculus at 3:23 PM on June 25, 2010
posted by homunculus at 3:23 PM on June 25, 2010
First ‘secret law’ arrestee plans Charter challenge
Lawyers say law’s creation is reminiscent of a ‘police state’
“I take my civil rights seriously,” Dave Vasey, 31, said at a news conference at Allan Gardens Friday night. “I’ll be filing a lawsuit to challenge constitutionality of this dangerous police state law.” He said he planned to do so Monday.
--
You can't hear it, but I'm cheering right now. I hope I'd have had the courage to do the same in his shoes.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:07 PM on June 25, 2010
Lawyers say law’s creation is reminiscent of a ‘police state’
“I take my civil rights seriously,” Dave Vasey, 31, said at a news conference at Allan Gardens Friday night. “I’ll be filing a lawsuit to challenge constitutionality of this dangerous police state law.” He said he planned to do so Monday.
--
You can't hear it, but I'm cheering right now. I hope I'd have had the courage to do the same in his shoes.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:07 PM on June 25, 2010
I'm hoping Clay Ruby gets involved with challenging these blatantly unconstitutional laws. Admittedly, it'll be barn door long after the horse has vanished over the horizon time, but it'll prevent governments from being able to pull this horseshit again in the future.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:25 PM on June 27, 2010
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:25 PM on June 27, 2010
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posted by unSane at 7:00 PM on June 23, 2010 [1 favorite]