Better Gaming for Better Living
September 13, 2010 11:41 AM Subscribe
Why World of Warcraft is good for you. New research, about to be published in Current Biology, indicates that playing action video games trains people to make the right decisions faster . . . and not just while playing the games. Here is a Power Point style summary of some of the research (pdf format).
... make the right decisions faster.... Here is a Power Point style summary of some of the research (pdf format).
Whoever decided to put that summary on the web in that format needs to play some more WoW.
posted by gurple at 11:46 AM on September 13, 2010
Whoever decided to put that summary on the web in that format needs to play some more WoW.
posted by gurple at 11:46 AM on September 13, 2010
Yeah, wow...article title fail.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 11:46 AM on September 13, 2010
posted by Salvor Hardin at 11:46 AM on September 13, 2010
Yeah, this is just what all those "WOW widows" need.
posted by sunshinesky at 11:47 AM on September 13, 2010
posted by sunshinesky at 11:47 AM on September 13, 2010
I know crack addicts who have better control of their addictions than most WoW players.
posted by schmod at 11:49 AM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by schmod at 11:49 AM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
So this is what it's come to: A highly respected magazine with more than 150 years in the business is reduced to writing link-bait, scummy SEO headlines.
Goodnight, journalism. Please turn off the A/C in the newsroom when you leave.
posted by jbickers at 11:50 AM on September 13, 2010 [5 favorites]
Goodnight, journalism. Please turn off the A/C in the newsroom when you leave.
posted by jbickers at 11:50 AM on September 13, 2010 [5 favorites]
There are times when you have to make quick decisions in WoW, but it's a different animal from an fps entirely.
posted by Mister_A at 11:51 AM on September 13, 2010
posted by Mister_A at 11:51 AM on September 13, 2010
Mmm-hmm. And how much does that mitigate the effects of spending eight hours a night raiding? (Not only does the article title fail, but it's also funny that they chose a photo of some neckbeard with a dozen or so empty Red Bull cans next to his computer monitor as an illustration.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Those trained with action video-games were 25% faster at coming to a conclusion, and answered just as many questions correctly.
Soooooooo they're also 25% faster at being wrong. Hooray?
And Christ on a cracker, people, it takes less than two hours to bump PowerPoint design skills past "six-year-old with a clip art CD" levels. I know you're all scientists with your science hats and science cars, but for God's sake, could somebody on the team invest an hour in making something that doesn't make my eyes bleed to read it?
posted by Shepherd at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
Soooooooo they're also 25% faster at being wrong. Hooray?
And Christ on a cracker, people, it takes less than two hours to bump PowerPoint design skills past "six-year-old with a clip art CD" levels. I know you're all scientists with your science hats and science cars, but for God's sake, could somebody on the team invest an hour in making something that doesn't make my eyes bleed to read it?
posted by Shepherd at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
Judging by the PDF summary, it seems most of the tests they did were testing the person's ability to track objects on a screen, asking them to recall where they (randomly) showed up or to count how many objects showed up on the screen for a limited time.
I'd say this study shows that people who play action games are better at skills that make them better at action games. That's a pretty far stretch to "training people to make the right decisions faster."
But then again, that's without reading the full research article.
posted by meandthebean at 11:55 AM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'd say this study shows that people who play action games are better at skills that make them better at action games. That's a pretty far stretch to "training people to make the right decisions faster."
But then again, that's without reading the full research article.
posted by meandthebean at 11:55 AM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
Please turn off the A/C in the newsroom when you leave.
Luxury! Ours has been broken for five months.
posted by randomination at 11:59 AM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Luxury! Ours has been broken for five months.
posted by randomination at 11:59 AM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I failed in my hunt for the actual article, though I think it will be up at the Current Events link soon. There is a fair amount of supporting and earlier research by these folks that shows up on a google search of their names, including the not good pdf PowerPoint.
posted by bearwife at 12:01 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by bearwife at 12:01 PM on September 13, 2010
So, no, World of Warcraft is apparently not on the "good for you" list, since it's not a fast-moving action video game.
I'd say the high end of the game moves pretty fast. One of the moves the game is trying to make in the latest expansion is to slow the pace of the game down. Healing especially. People were complaining about trying to heal people getting 'globaled', meaning they were killed in the measure of a global cooldown, around half a second.
Still the study didn't even focus on WoW, so it is just scummy SEO linkbait.
posted by zabuni at 12:03 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd say the high end of the game moves pretty fast. One of the moves the game is trying to make in the latest expansion is to slow the pace of the game down. Healing especially. People were complaining about trying to heal people getting 'globaled', meaning they were killed in the measure of a global cooldown, around half a second.
Still the study didn't even focus on WoW, so it is just scummy SEO linkbait.
posted by zabuni at 12:03 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
zabuni, just think about how much of the game is pure travel time. WoW could not be included in the category of "action" games like that at all.
posted by so_gracefully at 12:20 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by so_gracefully at 12:20 PM on September 13, 2010
Also, I think even if Warcraft *could* be included in this category of games, whatever positive decision-making gains might be made are fully overwritten by people's behavior in trade chat.
posted by so_gracefully at 12:25 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by so_gracefully at 12:25 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd say the high end of the game moves pretty fast.
For a MMORPG, sure. But it's still nothing compared to Unreal Tournament.
posted by Justinian at 12:28 PM on September 13, 2010
For a MMORPG, sure. But it's still nothing compared to Unreal Tournament.
posted by Justinian at 12:28 PM on September 13, 2010
zabuni, just think about how much of the game is pure travel time. WoW could not be included in the category of "action" games like that at all.
I was talking about the high level. Rather little travel time (5 minutes from Dalaran to ICC).
posted by zabuni at 12:29 PM on September 13, 2010
I was talking about the high level. Rather little travel time (5 minutes from Dalaran to ICC).
posted by zabuni at 12:29 PM on September 13, 2010
this line of research has been around for a while and is gaining a lot of popularity. take with a grain of salt. there's no question something is changing in action video players brains, but there is a big question about WHAT it is that is changing.
to give you an analogue, there are a whole host of cognitive tests that old folks do worse on than young folks. but when you equate the stimuli being used for visibility, so that the old folks "see" as well, then the differences are reduced or disappear.
its quite possible that a similar effect is operating with video game players, that its a case of them having faster (or different) front-end visual processing and that their "cognitive" skills are not really improved.
posted by mano at 12:30 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
to give you an analogue, there are a whole host of cognitive tests that old folks do worse on than young folks. but when you equate the stimuli being used for visibility, so that the old folks "see" as well, then the differences are reduced or disappear.
its quite possible that a similar effect is operating with video game players, that its a case of them having faster (or different) front-end visual processing and that their "cognitive" skills are not really improved.
posted by mano at 12:30 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
So this is what it's come to: A highly respected magazine with more than 150 years in the business is reduced to writing link-bait, scummy SEO headlines.
The Economist was still doing well last year. A headline can be eye-catching without being link-bait. Anyone remember the Vlad the Impaler cover a few years back?
posted by Jorus at 12:31 PM on September 13, 2010
The Economist was still doing well last year. A headline can be eye-catching without being link-bait. Anyone remember the Vlad the Impaler cover a few years back?
posted by Jorus at 12:31 PM on September 13, 2010
trains people to make the right decisions faster
So in theory they would have turned off the game within a second and went outside?
posted by wcfields at 12:31 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
So in theory they would have turned off the game within a second and went outside?
posted by wcfields at 12:31 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here is a Power Point style summary of some of the researchThat whooshing noise is my mind imploding. Is this satire? I cant tell at all.
posted by kuatto at 12:33 PM on September 13, 2010
Reminds me of one of my favorite Old Man Murray quotes:
A part of me honestly believes that the one hundred thousand hours I've spent motionless in front of a monitor would, in a pinch, turn out to have trained me to pilot a helicopter, be a jetboat superchamp, raise hamsters, and do karate. The day someone proves that Silent Scope prepares you for murder about as well as Clue prepares you to lead the resulting homicide investigation is the day I have to face the fact that I've wasted my entire fucking life.
posted by justkevin at 12:34 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
A part of me honestly believes that the one hundred thousand hours I've spent motionless in front of a monitor would, in a pinch, turn out to have trained me to pilot a helicopter, be a jetboat superchamp, raise hamsters, and do karate. The day someone proves that Silent Scope prepares you for murder about as well as Clue prepares you to lead the resulting homicide investigation is the day I have to face the fact that I've wasted my entire fucking life.
posted by justkevin at 12:34 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
"Nor, indeed, does the study compare the benefits of training on action video games with those of other activities that involve switching off the computer and getting a life."
Wow, that's incredibly condescending. Ridiculous.
posted by rachaelfaith at 12:42 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wow, that's incredibly condescending. Ridiculous.
posted by rachaelfaith at 12:42 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
So in theory they would have turned off the game within a second and went outside?
Ha ha I know right? Hobbies are such laughable bullshit, fully realized humans need merely work, sleep, and eat.
posted by kavasa at 12:46 PM on September 13, 2010 [22 favorites]
Ha ha I know right? Hobbies are such laughable bullshit, fully realized humans need merely work, sleep, and eat.
posted by kavasa at 12:46 PM on September 13, 2010 [22 favorites]
Shepherd: "Soooooooo they're also 25% faster at being wrong. Hooray?"
I'll rate that as a hooray! I've been in too many meetings where the most aggravating thing was the slow plodding course people took towards being wrong. I don't mind them being wrong so much, just hurry it up!
posted by Drastic at 12:46 PM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'll rate that as a hooray! I've been in too many meetings where the most aggravating thing was the slow plodding course people took towards being wrong. I don't mind them being wrong so much, just hurry it up!
posted by Drastic at 12:46 PM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
Incidentally, there's another conversation on the merits of online gaming with a WoW element going on over here right now.
posted by Shepherd at 12:47 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Shepherd at 12:47 PM on September 13, 2010
So in theory they would have turned off the game within a second and went outside?
My dad used to come home from a full day of fishing in his boat to say to me "Is that all you're gonna do all day is play videogames?"
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:48 PM on September 13, 2010 [10 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that playing Braid has put me in the top 5 percentile of ability to throw a videogame controller at a television set while cursing loudly.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:50 PM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:50 PM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
"trains people to make the right decisions faster ."
Unfortunate.
If anything, this country badly needs to train the next generation so that they can make the right decisions, slower.
posted by markkraft at 12:53 PM on September 13, 2010
Unfortunate.
If anything, this country badly needs to train the next generation so that they can make the right decisions, slower.
posted by markkraft at 12:53 PM on September 13, 2010
To be fair, playing a ton of EVE online does help prepare you for an exciting career in the actuarial or insurance adjustment industries.
posted by Justinian at 12:56 PM on September 13, 2010 [15 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:56 PM on September 13, 2010 [15 favorites]
So in theory they would have turned off the game within a second and went outside?
I really don't understand how someone who paid $ in order to make comments on a website can be judgmental about this type of thing. Seriously, why don't you go outside instead of oozing smug condescension in a comment thread on the internet? Oh that's right, because your pursuits are cool and awesome and obviously outside, while people who play video games need to get a life.
posted by shen1138 at 1:03 PM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
I really don't understand how someone who paid $ in order to make comments on a website can be judgmental about this type of thing. Seriously, why don't you go outside instead of oozing smug condescension in a comment thread on the internet? Oh that's right, because your pursuits are cool and awesome and obviously outside, while people who play video games need to get a life.
posted by shen1138 at 1:03 PM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]
My many hours of action-game experience provided me with a 22% speed boost in my decision making process, but a 95% speed reduction due to my failure to understand that, unlike how video-games represent it, carrying twelve guns with full ammunition is really heavy.
posted by quin at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by quin at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Very true, and this also applies to many other games as mentioned above.
posted by biggles76 at 1:21 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by biggles76 at 1:21 PM on September 13, 2010
If anything, this country badly needs to train the next generation so that they can make the right decisions, slower.
Um, what? The point is they're the right decisions. All else being equal, speed of decision-making is preferable. I'd agree we could use some more deliberation, but in order to increase the rightness of our decisions.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:46 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Um, what? The point is they're the right decisions. All else being equal, speed of decision-making is preferable. I'd agree we could use some more deliberation, but in order to increase the rightness of our decisions.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:46 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
jbickers: "So this is what it's come to: A highly respected magazine with more than 150 years in the business is reduced to writing link-bait, scummy SEO headlines."
Could World Of Warcraft help Justin Bieber in his quest for bargain tickets? The Economist has the answer!
posted by boo_radley at 2:16 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Could World Of Warcraft help Justin Bieber in his quest for bargain tickets? The Economist has the answer!
posted by boo_radley at 2:16 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I haven't gotten into all the articles yet, but how about we dumped the loaded term "right" decision for "context-correct" decision?
posted by Decimask at 2:27 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Decimask at 2:27 PM on September 13, 2010
When I jog, I imagine I am first saying "I love you" and then shooting murderous frost bolts at all small animals I pass.
Thank you, World of Warcraft.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:35 PM on September 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Thank you, World of Warcraft.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:35 PM on September 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Decimask: "but how about we dumped the loaded term "right" decision for "context-correct" decision?"
just rolls off the tongue.
posted by boo_radley at 2:52 PM on September 13, 2010
just rolls off the tongue.
posted by boo_radley at 2:52 PM on September 13, 2010
A gamer would make the context-correct number of inputs there 25% faster.
posted by Drastic at 3:31 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Drastic at 3:31 PM on September 13, 2010
Shouldn't it be an infinite series of "uh nos" from Evernix instead of just two?
posted by bearwife at 3:32 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by bearwife at 3:32 PM on September 13, 2010
HAHAHA! The media is reporting on something I know more about than they do, and they got it WRONG! HAHAHA! I feel so smart!
posted by straight at 3:34 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by straight at 3:34 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, my take is that World of Warcraft doesn't help you at all, but on the other hand, RTS or FPS games will make you think faster.
World of Warcraft is more comparable to the Sims IMO.
posted by kayalovesme at 3:52 PM on September 13, 2010
World of Warcraft is more comparable to the Sims IMO.
posted by kayalovesme at 3:52 PM on September 13, 2010
High end raiding in an mmorpg has flashes of the quick thinking intensity found in FPSs but they generally happen after waiting several hours for an instance to repop.
posted by Lorin at 3:57 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Lorin at 3:57 PM on September 13, 2010
Yea, but do you know how many people don't even make it to raiding? It's ridiculous.
posted by kayalovesme at 4:01 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by kayalovesme at 4:01 PM on September 13, 2010
Having healed many heroic dungeons in World of Warcraft, I can definitely say there are aspects of the game where you have to make decisions very quickly, based on several different factors - or face the ire of your party.
As for the questing part of the game, not so much.
posted by NoraCharles at 4:04 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
As for the questing part of the game, not so much.
posted by NoraCharles at 4:04 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
What NoraCharles said. The action in an FPS like BF2 or CoD is extremely fast - but there are limited options available to the player. Choose weapon, crouch, run, shoot, stab, slap a claymore on your buddy's butt - it's very lifelike, and very fast.
In World of Warcraft, the game itself doesn't seem to move very quickly. Seriously, five and ten minute long fights on raid bosses, and longer?
I can tell you though, that managing multiple actions on multiple cross-linked cooldowns in an environment that will punish you - and your whole group - if you fail to execute properly is an exercise in extreme situational awareness and extremely rapid information processing. Certain things also require preplanning and considerable coordination in order to execute. On top of that, sometimes things go south, and you have to make a decision, immediately. Relying on the group members to independently make decisions when there is no time to communicate - and finding success afterwards - is one of any game's sweetest rewards.
You can't snooze through the end game. To be fair, sure, grinding mobs sometimes makes me want to cry, but that's only part of the game - an occasionally therapeutic part.
As far as the article goes...um, well, yeah ok.
posted by Xoebe at 4:25 PM on September 13, 2010
In World of Warcraft, the game itself doesn't seem to move very quickly. Seriously, five and ten minute long fights on raid bosses, and longer?
I can tell you though, that managing multiple actions on multiple cross-linked cooldowns in an environment that will punish you - and your whole group - if you fail to execute properly is an exercise in extreme situational awareness and extremely rapid information processing. Certain things also require preplanning and considerable coordination in order to execute. On top of that, sometimes things go south, and you have to make a decision, immediately. Relying on the group members to independently make decisions when there is no time to communicate - and finding success afterwards - is one of any game's sweetest rewards.
You can't snooze through the end game. To be fair, sure, grinding mobs sometimes makes me want to cry, but that's only part of the game - an occasionally therapeutic part.
As far as the article goes...um, well, yeah ok.
posted by Xoebe at 4:25 PM on September 13, 2010
Luxury! Ours has been broken for five months.
Man, the guys at News Ltd. used to dream of having a broken air conditioner. In their office is just a cranky old Italian dude throwing broken glass at them from a big bucket, telling them to lie faster, in that funny Italian voice that Mario has. But this guy's name isn't Mario. It's George.
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:10 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Man, the guys at News Ltd. used to dream of having a broken air conditioner. In their office is just a cranky old Italian dude throwing broken glass at them from a big bucket, telling them to lie faster, in that funny Italian voice that Mario has. But this guy's name isn't Mario. It's George.
posted by turgid dahlia at 5:10 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I met my boyfriend playing WoW, and he was a big PvP player. He says:
"I don't care how chaotic and random high-end raid bosses are, they are still scripted and you should always be aware of what might happen and know the proper reaction ahead of time."
But in PvP, you are facing another human, who uses unpredictability as one of their weapons, and reacts dynamically to what *you* do. This requires a lot more high pressure thinking and decision-making on-the-fly. And keep in mind the added complexity of the fact that they are teamed with other humans, who are all reacting together, in different ways, as are your teammates. It is entirely unscripted.
posted by marble at 5:48 PM on September 13, 2010
"I don't care how chaotic and random high-end raid bosses are, they are still scripted and you should always be aware of what might happen and know the proper reaction ahead of time."
But in PvP, you are facing another human, who uses unpredictability as one of their weapons, and reacts dynamically to what *you* do. This requires a lot more high pressure thinking and decision-making on-the-fly. And keep in mind the added complexity of the fact that they are teamed with other humans, who are all reacting together, in different ways, as are your teammates. It is entirely unscripted.
posted by marble at 5:48 PM on September 13, 2010
All of you need to go outside and get a life. You know, dancing, reading, swimming, boating, real human interaction type things. I'm anti-social and all this WoW discussion is making me look like a social butterfly.
posted by Malice at 6:20 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Malice at 6:20 PM on September 13, 2010
All of you need to go outside and get a life.
Ugh, I am so tired of hearing this.
I have a wonderful life outside of WoW, (and inside for that matter - my Guild Mates are mostly people I know IRL and I'd have to say lately, waiting around for the Cataclysm expansion, logging on is more social than anything. We've had to work hard to achieve our in-game accomplishments and are proud of our growth as a team. We laugh a lot and have a good time together.) I've got a very satisfying career, healthy RL relationships with family and friends, several other hobbies and interests, and love going out dancing. I also happen to throw some kick ass healz in WoW.
There's this thing called moderation and some gamers know how to do it; balancing healthy lives with family and friends with gaming as a hobby.
Some don't, but some do.
But please stop telling us to get lives.
posted by NoraCharles at 6:41 PM on September 13, 2010 [5 favorites]
Ugh, I am so tired of hearing this.
I have a wonderful life outside of WoW, (and inside for that matter - my Guild Mates are mostly people I know IRL and I'd have to say lately, waiting around for the Cataclysm expansion, logging on is more social than anything. We've had to work hard to achieve our in-game accomplishments and are proud of our growth as a team. We laugh a lot and have a good time together.) I've got a very satisfying career, healthy RL relationships with family and friends, several other hobbies and interests, and love going out dancing. I also happen to throw some kick ass healz in WoW.
There's this thing called moderation and some gamers know how to do it; balancing healthy lives with family and friends with gaming as a hobby.
Some don't, but some do.
But please stop telling us to get lives.
posted by NoraCharles at 6:41 PM on September 13, 2010 [5 favorites]
All of you need to go outside and get a life. You know, dancing, reading, swimming, boating, real human interaction type things. I'm anti-social and all this WoW discussion is making me look like a social butterfly.
"All this WoW discussion?" I beg your pardon, I thought we were discussing the post. Because this is Metafilter and we do that here.
I know WoW players who dance, read, swim - okay, not boat, nobody owns a damn boat in my social circle - and regularly interact with real humans. And, yes, play video games where they kill Orcs with lightning bolts or whatever WoW consists of after the latest series of patches. Stop pissing on other people's pastimes and get up to date - "Video games are for losers who need a life" is so 1998.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:42 PM on September 13, 2010
"All this WoW discussion?" I beg your pardon, I thought we were discussing the post. Because this is Metafilter and we do that here.
I know WoW players who dance, read, swim - okay, not boat, nobody owns a damn boat in my social circle - and regularly interact with real humans. And, yes, play video games where they kill Orcs with lightning bolts or whatever WoW consists of after the latest series of patches. Stop pissing on other people's pastimes and get up to date - "Video games are for losers who need a life" is so 1998.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:42 PM on September 13, 2010
It's really the competitive scene that brings out the best aspects of these games: where players compete for big prize money or make their living playing these games, that's where you'll see examples of extraodinarily quick and astute decision making in action. Yes, WoW does have a competitive scene, and so do many other MMOs.
I'll outline what I consider the pinnacle of difficult and high pressure decision making - leading and playing a ranger spike team in the old days of Guild Wars. This strategy was pioneered (I think) by team iQ, the 2nd ranked team in the world at the time, which we had the pleasure (or misfortune) of facing and then losing horribly to.
The basic premise is this: it's two teams of 8 players each facing off in some environment. Assuming both teams are playing this strategy, you will each bring a number of Hunters (archers) and healers and the idea is that if everyone fires two shots consecutively against a single enemy, that person will die before he can possibly be healed. The two shots land within 0.5 seconds of each other back to back: the fastest heal in the game takes 0.25 seconds to cast. If all your players fire your shots in perfect unison, that gives the opposing healer only 0.25 seconds to react and start his heal before the target is dead.
This is not possible. The edge of human reaction time is indeed 0.25 seconds, but that's only in a single stimuli, single response case. You have your hand hovering over a button, the moment it lights up you slam down on it. That is 0.25 seconds. In a multiple response situation - false starts, multiple buttons, different stimuli - even with extensive training the best players cannot get it down to much lower than 0.5 seconds.
Fortunately, firing all your arrows in exact unison isn't easy either. If a single person fires their arrow 0.25 seconds too soon, that single early arrow will show up on the healer's screen - giving him an additional 0.25 seconds to react. If a single person fires his arrow 0.25 seconds too late, there may not be enough damage to take a player down until that last arrow hits, giving the healer another 0.25 seconds of time. That's usually enough.
So! Here's where the complications are
1. It's not really when you fire the arrow - it's when the arrow lands. It all depends on what kind of bow you're using, distance to target, elevation, etc, which each player has to evaluate on their own.
2. Line of sight - you can't fire at a target you can't see. Your leader will call a target and expect you to stick your arrow in it on his count: however, that target will be actively using terrain to block of lines of attack, making sure that he's not in danger of being shot at by everyone on your team at any given instant. Worse, not only are you trying to get a clear shot, but you also have to be aware that if you over-extend yourself, you might be "called" by the enemy team as their target and turned into a pincushion - you have to be aware of who has line of sight of you.
3. Latency Issues - because we are dealing with such fine tolerances, every single bit of delay adds up. First you have voice-chat delay - the by the time you hear your leader count down on VOIP, some fractions of a second has already elapsed. Then whenever you decide to fire your shot, some more fractions of a second will elapse before the server registers it. "Synching" the team is a ritual that most top level teams will do before each game to test each players latency so they can compensate for it just like how they compensate for arrow flight time and trajectory.
The hardest and most fascinating role to play is the leader - the target caller. Your Hunters' skills take 8 seconds to recharge, so you have to identify and call a target every 8 seconds. Finding the ideal target to call is so incredibly complex it's hard to do it justice by typing it out: from a limited perspective (view from your player) you have to keep in your head a constantly shifting map of where all 16 players are on the map at once, who has line of sight to whom, which players are exposed, waiting for the perfect moment to call a shot. Pick a bad target and your players can't follow through on the attack and it fails, forcing your team to wait 8 seconds: take too long, and the opponent may shoot first, killing one of your players and crippling your team until you can get that player up again. You need to be able to read "tells", the sudden coordinated movements that indicate the enemy team has called a target, so you can tell your team to go defensive, or offensively disrupt their coordinated volley.
In fact, the most powerful and amazing tool is the mystical ability that Mazer used in Ender's Game - watching the enemy team to see which one is the leader. All decisions are made from the limited perspective of one person: given enough experience and insight, you can in fact tell who is calling the shots by watching the team as a whole react to what each player is seeing. The leader can't react to something he cannot see, of course, so if you watch carefully, you can in fact tell who he is by seeing which judgements and calls he misses out on. Once you know who the leader is you can keep them suppressed: keep him targeted, forcing him to keep his head down, force him out of sight, blind him, so he cannot see what is happening and thus cannot lead his team effectively. If you kill the leader, the game usually falls apart right there.
Some teams have taken to the unusual tactic of "hiding" leaders in unexpected roles: there was one highly ranked team which had a healer in the back calling the shots.
posted by xdvesper at 6:44 PM on September 13, 2010 [6 favorites]
I'll outline what I consider the pinnacle of difficult and high pressure decision making - leading and playing a ranger spike team in the old days of Guild Wars. This strategy was pioneered (I think) by team iQ, the 2nd ranked team in the world at the time, which we had the pleasure (or misfortune) of facing and then losing horribly to.
The basic premise is this: it's two teams of 8 players each facing off in some environment. Assuming both teams are playing this strategy, you will each bring a number of Hunters (archers) and healers and the idea is that if everyone fires two shots consecutively against a single enemy, that person will die before he can possibly be healed. The two shots land within 0.5 seconds of each other back to back: the fastest heal in the game takes 0.25 seconds to cast. If all your players fire your shots in perfect unison, that gives the opposing healer only 0.25 seconds to react and start his heal before the target is dead.
This is not possible. The edge of human reaction time is indeed 0.25 seconds, but that's only in a single stimuli, single response case. You have your hand hovering over a button, the moment it lights up you slam down on it. That is 0.25 seconds. In a multiple response situation - false starts, multiple buttons, different stimuli - even with extensive training the best players cannot get it down to much lower than 0.5 seconds.
Fortunately, firing all your arrows in exact unison isn't easy either. If a single person fires their arrow 0.25 seconds too soon, that single early arrow will show up on the healer's screen - giving him an additional 0.25 seconds to react. If a single person fires his arrow 0.25 seconds too late, there may not be enough damage to take a player down until that last arrow hits, giving the healer another 0.25 seconds of time. That's usually enough.
So! Here's where the complications are
1. It's not really when you fire the arrow - it's when the arrow lands. It all depends on what kind of bow you're using, distance to target, elevation, etc, which each player has to evaluate on their own.
2. Line of sight - you can't fire at a target you can't see. Your leader will call a target and expect you to stick your arrow in it on his count: however, that target will be actively using terrain to block of lines of attack, making sure that he's not in danger of being shot at by everyone on your team at any given instant. Worse, not only are you trying to get a clear shot, but you also have to be aware that if you over-extend yourself, you might be "called" by the enemy team as their target and turned into a pincushion - you have to be aware of who has line of sight of you.
3. Latency Issues - because we are dealing with such fine tolerances, every single bit of delay adds up. First you have voice-chat delay - the by the time you hear your leader count down on VOIP, some fractions of a second has already elapsed. Then whenever you decide to fire your shot, some more fractions of a second will elapse before the server registers it. "Synching" the team is a ritual that most top level teams will do before each game to test each players latency so they can compensate for it just like how they compensate for arrow flight time and trajectory.
The hardest and most fascinating role to play is the leader - the target caller. Your Hunters' skills take 8 seconds to recharge, so you have to identify and call a target every 8 seconds. Finding the ideal target to call is so incredibly complex it's hard to do it justice by typing it out: from a limited perspective (view from your player) you have to keep in your head a constantly shifting map of where all 16 players are on the map at once, who has line of sight to whom, which players are exposed, waiting for the perfect moment to call a shot. Pick a bad target and your players can't follow through on the attack and it fails, forcing your team to wait 8 seconds: take too long, and the opponent may shoot first, killing one of your players and crippling your team until you can get that player up again. You need to be able to read "tells", the sudden coordinated movements that indicate the enemy team has called a target, so you can tell your team to go defensive, or offensively disrupt their coordinated volley.
In fact, the most powerful and amazing tool is the mystical ability that Mazer used in Ender's Game - watching the enemy team to see which one is the leader. All decisions are made from the limited perspective of one person: given enough experience and insight, you can in fact tell who is calling the shots by watching the team as a whole react to what each player is seeing. The leader can't react to something he cannot see, of course, so if you watch carefully, you can in fact tell who he is by seeing which judgements and calls he misses out on. Once you know who the leader is you can keep them suppressed: keep him targeted, forcing him to keep his head down, force him out of sight, blind him, so he cannot see what is happening and thus cannot lead his team effectively. If you kill the leader, the game usually falls apart right there.
Some teams have taken to the unusual tactic of "hiding" leaders in unexpected roles: there was one highly ranked team which had a healer in the back calling the shots.
posted by xdvesper at 6:44 PM on September 13, 2010 [6 favorites]
MetaFilter: All of you need to go outside and get a life.
Seriously, Malice. I have a regular three-hour City of Heroes session every week, and we get on Ventrilo and talk for at least two solid hours of that. And not necessarily about game stuff, either. I'm not saying it's scintillating Algonquin Round Table stuff, mostly, but it's by no means inferior to going out and reading or blogging at Starbucks just because you've left your apartment in the latter case.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:45 PM on September 13, 2010
Seriously, Malice. I have a regular three-hour City of Heroes session every week, and we get on Ventrilo and talk for at least two solid hours of that. And not necessarily about game stuff, either. I'm not saying it's scintillating Algonquin Round Table stuff, mostly, but it's by no means inferior to going out and reading or blogging at Starbucks just because you've left your apartment in the latter case.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:45 PM on September 13, 2010
The older I get, the more I'm convinced that leisure time is an intrinsic good, and even something as sweet and unproductive as daydreaming while staring at the ceiling fan has value.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:52 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:52 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
All of you need to go outside and get a life.
Don't you have some nerds to go beat up in order to soothe your own inadequacies?
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Don't you have some nerds to go beat up in order to soothe your own inadequacies?
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
To be fair, playing a ton of EVE online does help prepare you for an exciting career in the actuarial or insurance adjustment industries.
Bah. Actuarial Science is mere childs' play compared to running reactions in lowsec.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:52 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Bah. Actuarial Science is mere childs' play compared to running reactions in lowsec.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:52 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a regular three-hour City of Heroes session every week, and we get on Ventrilo and talk for at least two solid hours of that. And not necessarily about game stuff, either.
I logged 3 years /played on EQ while suffering from severe depression. I literally could not go outside, so the members of my guild were basically the only human beings I had meaningful interactions with.
Also, after being reminded by a few later comments, I'll take back what I said about the intensity of MMORPGaming. Single grouping difficult content certainly does require--and is largely dependent on--good decision making. I guess I'm still bitter about the state of high end raiding in EQ circa Gates of Discord, hah.
posted by Lorin at 8:33 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
I logged 3 years /played on EQ while suffering from severe depression. I literally could not go outside, so the members of my guild were basically the only human beings I had meaningful interactions with.
Also, after being reminded by a few later comments, I'll take back what I said about the intensity of MMORPGaming. Single grouping difficult content certainly does require--and is largely dependent on--good decision making. I guess I'm still bitter about the state of high end raiding in EQ circa Gates of Discord, hah.
posted by Lorin at 8:33 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
When I jog, I imagine I am first saying "I love you" and then shooting murderous frost bolts at all small animals I pass.
Phht. Ice Lance is much more efficient.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 9:35 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Phht. Ice Lance is much more efficient.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 9:35 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm convinced navigating FPS maps did wonders for my real-life sense of direction.
posted by muckster at 10:46 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by muckster at 10:46 PM on September 13, 2010
Ok, since it is confession time. When driving through places I've never been before I always evaluate the terrain for ease of defense, assault, and likely sniper perches.
For, you know, when the Russkies come.
posted by Justinian at 12:58 AM on September 14, 2010
For, you know, when the Russkies come.
posted by Justinian at 12:58 AM on September 14, 2010
I'm convinced navigating FPS maps did wonders for my real-life sense of direction.
On the other hand I think it has stigmatized me in real life as I tend to spin around a lot and look up and down and have a tendency to jump and roll when I encounter obstacles. That, and I reload obsessively.
posted by srboisvert at 3:27 AM on September 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
On the other hand I think it has stigmatized me in real life as I tend to spin around a lot and look up and down and have a tendency to jump and roll when I encounter obstacles. That, and I reload obsessively.
posted by srboisvert at 3:27 AM on September 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
I play video games and I have a life. I am also smart. You an old person who tells youngin's video games are bad. This generation doesn't like you.
posted by andykapahala at 8:57 AM on September 14, 2010
posted by andykapahala at 8:57 AM on September 14, 2010
I play video games. My life is barely tolerable. I'm smart, but very flawed. I'm also really self-absorbed. Sorry for the attributional bias implicit in the previous two statements. My shadow priest is level 80 and was 10m server Alliance first for Yogg, back when I was in a guild. I know this all means something, but I don't know what it is.
posted by polymodus at 7:17 PM on September 14, 2010
posted by polymodus at 7:17 PM on September 14, 2010
« Older ScoutingNY profiles an imperiled treasure | Decepticons! Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 11:42 AM on September 13, 2010 [3 favorites]