"This is indeed a clash of civilisations, not between Islam and Christendom but between reason and superstition."
October 20, 2010 12:29 AM Subscribe
It's Logical to Be 'Islamophobic', says R.C. Marsh. "From a utilitarian perspective, it's simple. The average person faces greater danger from radicalized Muslims than from other dangers that we also fear, such as sharks or lightning."
This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry, this is a lame op-ed on a crazy controversial subject -- mathowie
http://xkcd.com/795/
posted by Bokononist at 12:45 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Bokononist at 12:45 AM on October 20, 2010
It just strikes me as stupid.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 12:46 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 12:46 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
It seems to me that given the choice between a Muslim and a lightning bolt, most people would go with the Muslim. This fellow seems to be equating "Muslim" with "terrorist attack carried out by Muslims," an actually lethal item comparable with lightning bolts. Those things are about as alike as dogfish and sharks.
The logical corollary to this is that we should fear all clouds.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:46 AM on October 20, 2010 [11 favorites]
The logical corollary to this is that we should fear all clouds.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:46 AM on October 20, 2010 [11 favorites]
1) it's not logical to be anything-phobic. That's what the suffix means.
2) people are famously shit at assessing the risk from sharks.
3) this is what counts for 'thinking' in America now?
posted by pompomtom at 12:47 AM on October 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
2) people are famously shit at assessing the risk from sharks.
3) this is what counts for 'thinking' in America now?
posted by pompomtom at 12:47 AM on October 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
The statistical argument is flawed, it considers that the probability is the same regardless of location. The "thousands of terrorist attacks" quoted in the article have mostly happened in war zones; there were only a handful of terrorist attacks out of war zones in 2009.
You don't fear sharks if you are hiking in a mountain. You don't fear lightning if the sky is clear. So you should not fear terrorist attacks out of war zones.
posted by knz at 12:48 AM on October 20, 2010 [12 favorites]
You don't fear sharks if you are hiking in a mountain. You don't fear lightning if the sky is clear. So you should not fear terrorist attacks out of war zones.
posted by knz at 12:48 AM on October 20, 2010 [12 favorites]
pompomtom: when you look at the site and see it has such luminary posts on it as "The Liberal Elite and Black Intellectual Serfdom", "Crisis and Presidential Management Skills: Obama and Chile's Piñera" and "The Democrats Will Steal the Election if We Let Them"? I'm not sure it counts as much really solid thinking.
posted by mephron at 12:50 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by mephron at 12:50 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
When I stumbled upon this, I first thought it was an article from MAD Magazine. Sadly, it is not.
posted by Fizz at 12:52 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Fizz at 12:52 AM on October 20, 2010
It's illogical to see utilitarianism as inherently logical.
posted by rudster at 12:53 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by rudster at 12:53 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
When I'm sitting on my board over a sandy patch of reef, it's getting kind of dark, and every shadow on the bottom begins to look long and gray.. it really isn't Muslims I fear.
posted by Ahab at 12:56 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Ahab at 12:56 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Live by the stat, die by the stat. Just be afraid of everything because that's a happy way to live.
posted by chavenet at 12:56 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by chavenet at 12:56 AM on October 20, 2010
the comments on that article are terrifying
it is logical for me to be afraid of them
posted by Sebmojo at 12:59 AM on October 20, 2010
it is logical for me to be afraid of them
posted by Sebmojo at 12:59 AM on October 20, 2010
"This is indeed a clash of civilisations, not between Islam and Christendom but between reason and superstition."
You're not fucking wrong…
Another way of looking at it is that, as an average Usonian, you're about as likely to commit suicide in the next year (1 in 9380) as you are of being killed by a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist.
posted by Pinback at 12:59 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
You're not fucking wrong…
Another way of looking at it is that, as an average Usonian, you're about as likely to commit suicide in the next year (1 in 9380) as you are of being killed by a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist.
posted by Pinback at 12:59 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Really stupid.
There were 34,172 fatal vehicle accidents in the USA alone in 2008. Therefore according to this logic we should be at least four times more scared of cars than terrorists, if we accept the given value of 9000. If we added on total world fatalities from cars, or compared that value to USA terrorism deaths, the ratio would be more like thousands to one.
Don't even dare think about heart disease (616,067) or cancer (562,875).
posted by scodger at 1:03 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
There were 34,172 fatal vehicle accidents in the USA alone in 2008. Therefore according to this logic we should be at least four times more scared of cars than terrorists, if we accept the given value of 9000. If we added on total world fatalities from cars, or compared that value to USA terrorism deaths, the ratio would be more like thousands to one.
Don't even dare think about heart disease (616,067) or cancer (562,875).
posted by scodger at 1:03 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
Although, if people would like to fund research and countermeasures for cancer and heart disease 100 fold more than anti terrorism efforts, I wouldn't say no.
posted by scodger at 1:04 AM on October 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by scodger at 1:04 AM on October 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
This linked article is thirty times more likely to be laughingly dismissed by the average person with half a brain than any article to be found at any intellectual rigorous and honestly unbiased website or publication.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:05 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:05 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can only read about three of those comments in one sitting. Just willful distortions of reality from those fuckers. American Thinker as a whole is an incredibly awful site and probably doesn't deserve the page views, so here is a link that from my understanding won't contribute any hits to their advertisers.
posted by Peztopiary at 1:09 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Peztopiary at 1:09 AM on October 20, 2010
I vote against driving any traffic to American "Thinker."
posted by bardic at 1:14 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by bardic at 1:14 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Have to wonder, was this intellectually stunted piece of rabble-rousery posted to Mefi as a kind of point-and-laugh, look-how-stupid-people-are kind of post, or was it that this piece of trash is something you think people here at mefi should seriously consider? Either way, it's kinda giving me the creeps.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:17 AM on October 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:17 AM on October 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
Why give an article like that greater readership? I'm not saying the author doesn't have a right to his ignorant opinions. But do we really have to give them a bigger audience? I now am going for a walk so I can stop hyperventilating, quite literally.
posted by bardophile at 1:21 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bardophile at 1:21 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Islamic sharks shooting lightning bolts from their teeth. Call it Islamogaleoastrapoodontophobia if you must, but this is my fear. As is natural.
posted by pracowity at 1:22 AM on October 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 1:22 AM on October 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
Do you ever read something and for no reason that you can specify think "I bet this person is really bad at sex."?
Maybe it's just me.
posted by vapidave at 1:27 AM on October 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
Maybe it's just me.
posted by vapidave at 1:27 AM on October 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
In my line of work, we caution heavily against "the appeal to logic" as a basis of reasoning, for one simple reason: invoking "logic" is rarely actually using logic. It's more commonly a crutch for an ill thought through argument.
99 times out of a 100, when someone says "it's logical that", what follows next bears no resemblance to logic. What they're doing is appealing to the reader to just accept the shortcuts they've taken to narrow down the options prematurely.
posted by MuffinMan at 1:30 AM on October 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
99 times out of a 100, when someone says "it's logical that", what follows next bears no resemblance to logic. What they're doing is appealing to the reader to just accept the shortcuts they've taken to narrow down the options prematurely.
posted by MuffinMan at 1:30 AM on October 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
By their so-called 'logic', it makes more sense to be anti-American than Islamophobic. After all, statistics inform us that you're much more likely to be killed by an American than a Muslim, particularly if you yourself are an American living in the United States. They're much more likely to be carrying guns than Muslims are, too. And hey, while we're here, let's castigate men as a group and be fearful of them, for statistics tell us some more things, or let's all fucking stop driving due to the inherent and sizeable risk involved in motorised transport - it's only logical and utilitarian to be afeared - why, all normal humans are fucking terrified all the time, right? We're all damn scared, it's not just me, look the utilitarian logic tells me, it must be so!
posted by Dysk at 1:37 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 1:37 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
tl:dr - I'm an idiot now let me tell you why.
I do like how he equates 'Muslims' with sharks though. In case there's any doubt as to which way this piece of shit leans.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:38 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I do like how he equates 'Muslims' with sharks though. In case there's any doubt as to which way this piece of shit leans.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:38 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wonder why the gentleman refrains from applying this same logic to himself. I do wonder in a world where troops in his name as posted across the planet, and several countries are invaded to form an occupied pincer around key historically-Muslim countries, and innocent Muslims are being asploded, gunned down, held without reason, harassed, stabbed in cabs and so forth every single day by his countrymen in his home country and Muslims' home countries, well I wonder whether Muslims would have any utilitarian reason to be afraid of him?
posted by as a Karate Expert.. at 1:40 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by as a Karate Expert.. at 1:40 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Islamic sharks is taking our jobs
posted by Damienmce at 1:50 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Damienmce at 1:50 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Since I'm more likely to be killed by an Xian than a Muslim, based on the crime statistics in the US, my Xianphobia is entirely justified.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 1:55 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Jimmy Havok at 1:55 AM on October 20, 2010
I will stop visiting my Muslim barber (he may do a good job at a reasonable price, and call me 'mate', but he has Al-Jazeera News on his TV!) and attempt to find a shark barber. It's really the only way to be safe. Ditto kebabs. I'll miss them, but you can't be too careful.
(Also I am 4 times more likely to kill myself on the London Underground than to be killed by Muslim terrorists blowing up trains on the Underground; so I will stop catching trains, just in case).
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:12 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
(Also I am 4 times more likely to kill myself on the London Underground than to be killed by Muslim terrorists blowing up trains on the Underground; so I will stop catching trains, just in case).
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:12 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
More people have died from peanut allergy in the US since 1960 than have died from Islamic terrorism in the same period by an order of magnitude. This fool doesn't understand logic.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 2:12 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 2:12 AM on October 20, 2010
Shark attacks and lightning are less dangerous to you than Muslims. What a stupid and transparent straw man argument. Shark attacks and lightning are also less dangerous to you than, say, rednecks in pickup trucks drunkenly running you over while you are shopping at the minimall. Shall we lynch all the rednecks? I'm not convinced that this lame article was worthy of discussion.
posted by jackbrown at 2:18 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by jackbrown at 2:18 AM on October 20, 2010
Nothing screams 'logical thinker' like proceeding from your bigotry as a priori and finding the arguments to fit.
posted by Abiezer at 2:21 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 2:21 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
From a utilitarian perspective, it's simple.What's up with all these people who have no idea what 'utilitarian' actually means? It seems like some people seem to think it just means "amoral"
posted by delmoi at 2:25 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
lynch all the rednecks
this is one of those events where enthusiastic spectators find themselves in an uncomfortably postmodern crowd participation scenario
posted by as a Karate Expert.. at 2:29 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
this is one of those events where enthusiastic spectators find themselves in an uncomfortably postmodern crowd participation scenario
posted by as a Karate Expert.. at 2:29 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are good reasons to fear sharks.
* 1) Predatory
* 2) Single-minded
* 3) Uncaring
* 4) Fear - The shark's reputation as a cold-blooded killer causes the mere appearance of one to produce fear.
So you should be afraid of Sharks because they are so scary!
posted by WhackyparseThis at 2:33 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
* 1) Predatory
* 2) Single-minded
* 3) Uncaring
* 4) Fear - The shark's reputation as a cold-blooded killer causes the mere appearance of one to produce fear.
So you should be afraid of Sharks because they are so scary!
posted by WhackyparseThis at 2:33 AM on October 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Al-Jazeera News is actually quite a bit more comprehensive than a lot of what passes for global news reporting on major TV networks.
posted by bardophile at 2:59 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bardophile at 2:59 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
This piece is bullshit from beginning to end.
How do we counter "Islamophobia"?
The most important thing will be for most of the leaders of the Muslim world to repeatedly make clear, public distinctions between those who are peaceful and those who are not.
Even George W. Bush was doing this. This is already going on. Thinking people do this automatically, without need of some Muslim cleric to clarify it.
The other important step will be for average people to experience frequent relationships with non-radical Muslims
Muslims being a minority in the US causes most to have infrequent relationships with them period. Regardless, it's not like relationships with radicals are somehow frequent.
Then there is the first comment: Mr. Marsh, we don't owe Islam anything - not time; not even the time of day. Let Islam reform itself in its own time, on its own ground. In the mean time, neither Islam nor muslims have a place on our soil.
And my head just exploded.
posted by IvoShandor at 3:07 AM on October 20, 2010
How do we counter "Islamophobia"?
The most important thing will be for most of the leaders of the Muslim world to repeatedly make clear, public distinctions between those who are peaceful and those who are not.
Even George W. Bush was doing this. This is already going on. Thinking people do this automatically, without need of some Muslim cleric to clarify it.
The other important step will be for average people to experience frequent relationships with non-radical Muslims
Muslims being a minority in the US causes most to have infrequent relationships with them period. Regardless, it's not like relationships with radicals are somehow frequent.
Then there is the first comment: Mr. Marsh, we don't owe Islam anything - not time; not even the time of day. Let Islam reform itself in its own time, on its own ground. In the mean time, neither Islam nor muslims have a place on our soil.
And my head just exploded.
posted by IvoShandor at 3:07 AM on October 20, 2010
Bokononist put this thread to rest in the most humane way possible. This is a very bokonono, but this is not really logical.
For some reason, that scene in the Simpsons where Lisa reluctantly sells a Tiger warding rock to her father comes to mind. I'd like to laugh at this rather than realize that there is a line of people behind me to buy this rock for themselves and their loved ones.
posted by chemoboy at 3:07 AM on October 20, 2010
For some reason, that scene in the Simpsons where Lisa reluctantly sells a Tiger warding rock to her father comes to mind. I'd like to laugh at this rather than realize that there is a line of people behind me to buy this rock for themselves and their loved ones.
posted by chemoboy at 3:07 AM on October 20, 2010
Al-Jazeera News is actually quite a bit more comprehensive than a lot of what passes for global news reporting on major TV networks.
Oh, I know: I've certainly seen some interesting news items on there, just sitting waiting for my haircut. I was in character as the sort of person who would be more scared of random Muslims than sharks.
posted by Infinite Jest at 3:14 AM on October 20, 2010
Oh, I know: I've certainly seen some interesting news items on there, just sitting waiting for my haircut. I was in character as the sort of person who would be more scared of random Muslims than sharks.
posted by Infinite Jest at 3:14 AM on October 20, 2010
It's amazing how little of what he says actually contributes to his argument. I don't know why I'm bothering to refudiate this guy, but his only argument is basically: radical muslims are bad for your health, non-muslims can't tell the difference between radical and normal muslims, therefore it's logical to be wary of all of them. But this has nothing to do with sharks. I don't have to distinguish between good and bad sharks, I'll happily stay clear of all of them. So the whole premise is shit -- the analogy simply doesn't hold.
I might be afraid of terrorist attacks, but I'm not afraid of terrorists as such -- a terrorist isn't someone who's going to stab me in the face if I meet him in the street. So again, sharks and terrorists are quite dissimilar objects.
People are not afraid of sharks because of the statistical likelihood of getting killed by one. People are afraid of sharks because in the unlikely event that you do happen to run into a big-ass shark it just might bite you off at the waist with gigantic, razor-sharp teeth. Whereas if I run into a muslim in the street, it's not very likely I'll get chopped in half. In fact it hasn't happened even once yet.
Shark encounters and terrorist attacks are both bad, not because of the likelihood that they might happen to you, but because when they do happen to you you're pretty much fucked. All the talk about sharks and statistics is just a smoke-screen, and the only point he really establishes in the whole piece is basically: all muslims look like terrorists to me.
Meanwhile, people who are not R.C. Marsh can't tell the difference between him and a blathering fool, so I'd say it's logical to start ignoring him until he proves otherwise.
posted by creasy boy at 3:20 AM on October 20, 2010
I might be afraid of terrorist attacks, but I'm not afraid of terrorists as such -- a terrorist isn't someone who's going to stab me in the face if I meet him in the street. So again, sharks and terrorists are quite dissimilar objects.
People are not afraid of sharks because of the statistical likelihood of getting killed by one. People are afraid of sharks because in the unlikely event that you do happen to run into a big-ass shark it just might bite you off at the waist with gigantic, razor-sharp teeth. Whereas if I run into a muslim in the street, it's not very likely I'll get chopped in half. In fact it hasn't happened even once yet.
Shark encounters and terrorist attacks are both bad, not because of the likelihood that they might happen to you, but because when they do happen to you you're pretty much fucked. All the talk about sharks and statistics is just a smoke-screen, and the only point he really establishes in the whole piece is basically: all muslims look like terrorists to me.
Meanwhile, people who are not R.C. Marsh can't tell the difference between him and a blathering fool, so I'd say it's logical to start ignoring him until he proves otherwise.
posted by creasy boy at 3:20 AM on October 20, 2010
From a utilitarian perspective, it's simple.
What's up with all these people who have no idea what 'utilitarian' actually means?
It's They're simple.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:28 AM on October 20, 2010
What's up with all these people who have no idea what 'utilitarian' actually means?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:28 AM on October 20, 2010
knz : The statistical argument is flawed, it considers that the probability is the same regardless of location. The "thousands of terrorist attacks" quoted in the article have mostly happened in war zones; there were only a handful of terrorist attacks out of war zones in 2009.
TFA specifically mentions Fort Hood... A 2009 attack on US soil that killed 2.6x as many people as sharks did that year (though wounded only 2/3rds as many, so take that as you will).
You don't fear sharks if you are hiking in a mountain. You don't fear lightning if the sky is clear. So you should not fear terrorist attacks out of war zones.
So radical muslims only exist in war zones? Thanks, I'll have to remember that one
creasy boy : a terrorist isn't someone who's going to stab me in the face if I meet him in the street. So again, sharks and terrorists are quite dissimilar objects.
Do you recall the worst of the Irish squabbling from the 80s? People did randomly get stabbed in the face (or otherwise seriously injured) just walking down the street. We have the fortune (in the US) of living in a fairly secular society, so don't tend to see it that bad, but we can't pretend it won't happen if we allow it to.
For those calling TFA, I would like to ask you one point of clarification... Do you consider humans in general more dangerous than sharks or lightning?
posted by pla at 3:44 AM on October 20, 2010
TFA specifically mentions Fort Hood... A 2009 attack on US soil that killed 2.6x as many people as sharks did that year (though wounded only 2/3rds as many, so take that as you will).
You don't fear sharks if you are hiking in a mountain. You don't fear lightning if the sky is clear. So you should not fear terrorist attacks out of war zones.
So radical muslims only exist in war zones? Thanks, I'll have to remember that one
creasy boy : a terrorist isn't someone who's going to stab me in the face if I meet him in the street. So again, sharks and terrorists are quite dissimilar objects.
Do you recall the worst of the Irish squabbling from the 80s? People did randomly get stabbed in the face (or otherwise seriously injured) just walking down the street. We have the fortune (in the US) of living in a fairly secular society, so don't tend to see it that bad, but we can't pretend it won't happen if we allow it to.
For those calling TFA, I would like to ask you one point of clarification... Do you consider humans in general more dangerous than sharks or lightning?
posted by pla at 3:44 AM on October 20, 2010
My greatest fear is being expected to please more than 4 women in bed at the same time....
Hey! It happens.
posted by Increase at 3:56 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hey! It happens.
posted by Increase at 3:56 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Have to wonder, was this intellectually stunted piece of rabble-rousery posted to Mefi as a kind of point-and-laugh, look-how-stupid-people-are kind of post, or was it that this piece of trash is something you think people here at mefi should seriously consider? Either way, it's kinda giving me the creeps.
Which makes this as good of time as any to remind everyone, with < 2 weeks to go until the midterm elections, to get out the vote, talk with voters, and help to make sure folks like this stay as far away from power as possible.
This is exactly what I used my university fall break for.
Sick sick sick article.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 4:03 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Which makes this as good of time as any to remind everyone, with < 2 weeks to go until the midterm elections, to get out the vote, talk with voters, and help to make sure folks like this stay as far away from power as possible.
This is exactly what I used my university fall break for.
Sick sick sick article.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 4:03 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Summary:
1. Muslims are mammals.
2. Muslims fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the Muslim is to flip out and kill people.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:26 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
1. Muslims are mammals.
2. Muslims fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the Muslim is to flip out and kill people.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:26 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
i fear sharks, not the ocean
i fear lightning, not mountain tops
i fear terrorists, not Muslims
if i find my self in the latter circumstance along with evidence of also being among the former, then i will be concerned.
posted by DavidandConquer at 4:37 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
i fear lightning, not mountain tops
i fear terrorists, not Muslims
if i find my self in the latter circumstance along with evidence of also being among the former, then i will be concerned.
posted by DavidandConquer at 4:37 AM on October 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
i went to the American Thinker site and read the article and i kept waiting for the punch line.
turns out the punch line is the name of the site.
posted by DavidandConquer at 4:38 AM on October 20, 2010
turns out the punch line is the name of the site.
posted by DavidandConquer at 4:38 AM on October 20, 2010
Flagged as "not even wrong."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:38 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:38 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Given that I have a vastly greater chance of dying in an auto accident than I do in a terrorist attack, and that not all terrorist attacks are Muslim in origin, I think I'll put off filling my pants with fecal matter in terror every time I see a Muslim.
In terms of risk, given that I live in the USA I think I'm at much greater risk of having Christian religious law imposed upon me than I am having Sharia imposed upon me. People in Turkey might have a legitimate concern about Sharia being imposed, but here in America it's the Christian extremists and their enablers I worry about, not the Muslim extremists.
posted by sotonohito at 4:43 AM on October 20, 2010
In terms of risk, given that I live in the USA I think I'm at much greater risk of having Christian religious law imposed upon me than I am having Sharia imposed upon me. People in Turkey might have a legitimate concern about Sharia being imposed, but here in America it's the Christian extremists and their enablers I worry about, not the Muslim extremists.
posted by sotonohito at 4:43 AM on October 20, 2010
from the article: The most important thing will be for most of the leaders of the Muslim world to repeatedly make clear, public distinctions between those who are peaceful and those who are not.
So it's only those who are not peaceful we should fear? Or those who don't make clear distinctions? See, I don't think this article makes clear distinctions.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:51 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
So it's only those who are not peaceful we should fear? Or those who don't make clear distinctions? See, I don't think this article makes clear distinctions.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:51 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
This article is stupid. However, it is not stupid to be anti-Islam. It is reasonable to be anti-Islam because Islam is a pernicious, irrational belief system; not because of irrelevant statistics about alleged individual risk.
posted by Decani at 4:53 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Decani at 4:53 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
From the State Dept's Country Reports on Terrorism 2009 (linked from the article as a main source):
posted by carsonb at 4:57 AM on October 20, 2010
Almost 58,000 individuals worldwide were either killed or injured by terrorist attacks in 2009. Based upon a combination of reporting and demographic analysis of the countries involved, well over 50 percent of the victims were Muslims, and most were victims of Sunni extremist attacks.So unless this RC Marsh is a Muslim living near a bunch of Sunni extremists, his fears are twice as illogical as they appear to be at first. Just one other small little WTF? moment brought to you by this American Thinker.
posted by carsonb at 4:57 AM on October 20, 2010
Jeez, further down in the crazy he even mentions that Muslims are victims of terrorism more than twice as often as everyone else. Doesn't stop the fear. FEAR IT.
posted by carsonb at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by carsonb at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010
The awful truth is you are statistically more likely to be abused by your priest than you are to be attacked by Muslim terrorist.
posted by humanfont at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
But do Muslims weigh more than a duck?
posted by kcds at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kcds at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
>So you should not fear terrorist attacks out of war zones.
So radical muslims only exist in war zones? Thanks, I'll have to remember that one
Nice equivalency there.
posted by pompomtom at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010
So radical muslims only exist in war zones? Thanks, I'll have to remember that one
Nice equivalency there.
posted by pompomtom at 5:01 AM on October 20, 2010
The point is more whether you should be anti-Muslim than whether you should be anti-Islam.
posted by bardophile at 5:06 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by bardophile at 5:06 AM on October 20, 2010
You don't fear sharks if you are hiking in a mountain.
You should.
posted by TedW at 5:09 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
You should.
posted by TedW at 5:09 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
So this Marsh fellow is the fear-based version of Gordon Gekko?
"Fear, for lack of a better term, is good..."
posted by inturnaround at 5:13 AM on October 20, 2010
"Fear, for lack of a better term, is good..."
posted by inturnaround at 5:13 AM on October 20, 2010
This article is stupid. However, it is not stupid to be anti-Islam. It is reasonable to be anti-Islam because Islam is a pernicious, irrational belief system; not because of irrelevant statistics about alleged individual risk.
Well, sure, but that applies to every religion, and most people believe in at least one, so you're pretty much stuck with it.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 5:14 AM on October 20, 2010
Well, sure, but that applies to every religion, and most people believe in at least one, so you're pretty much stuck with it.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 5:14 AM on October 20, 2010
"You don't fear sharks if you are hiking in a mountain."
You should.
See also.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 5:17 AM on October 20, 2010
You should.
See also.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 5:17 AM on October 20, 2010
Every time I see somebody using "utilitarian"- an adjective referring to a beautiful and reasoned set of moral principles- to mean "pragmatic" or "selfish', I die a little inside.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:25 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:25 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Next from R.C. Marsh: "Muslims With Frickin' Laser Beams Attached to Their Heads: It Can Happen Here."
posted by Pants McCracky at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Pants McCracky at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2010
What gets me is that Islam is a region that calls it's followers to move forth a conquer until everyone is Islam. It just seems strange to me.
posted by Michelle Stevens at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by Michelle Stevens at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2010
I'd avoid travel to Iraq and Afghanistan, yes. I'll also happily mock all our popular monotheistic desert sub god religions, including Islam. I'm not sure why the author feels these facts are enter-twinned however.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by jeffburdges at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2010
What gets me is that Islam is a region that calls it's followers to move forth a conquer until everyone is Islam. It just seems strange to me.
Trying to figure out whether this comment is a joke or just incredibly poorly written and misinformed.
posted by bardophile at 5:36 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Trying to figure out whether this comment is a joke or just incredibly poorly written and misinformed.
posted by bardophile at 5:36 AM on October 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
What gets me is that Islam is a region that calls it's followers to move forth a conquer until everyone is Islam. It just seems strange to me.
It's like you've never even heard of Christianity.
posted by elizardbits at 5:41 AM on October 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
It's like you've never even heard of Christianity.
posted by elizardbits at 5:41 AM on October 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
See what happens when you take a perfectly good hypothesis, "There is conflict between the Rational and Irrational" and inject it with the poison of any particular flavor of religion? The perfectly good hypothesis is instantly crippled, and rendered impotent.
posted by mikelieman at 5:46 AM on October 20, 2010
posted by mikelieman at 5:46 AM on October 20, 2010
The most important thing will be for most of the leaders of the Muslim world to repeatedly make clear, public distinctions between those who are peaceful and those who are not.
Yes, because it's just so hard for the rest of us to suss out which Muslims are violent extremists and which aren't. We can't possibly be arsed to actually understand the differences between various sects, groups, and branches. No, we demand that these unspecified 'leaders of the Muslim world' go around and label all the imams "radical" or "not radical." Repeatedly, clearly, and publicly, because otherwise it won't sink in. And if they don't do it often enough or clearly enough or publicly enough, well, that just means they're probably radical themselves.
Ugh. It makes as much sense as demanding that the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury tell us which Christian groups are okay and which ones are likely to do things like bomb abortion clinics or plot to take over the government.
posted by jedicus at 5:47 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, because it's just so hard for the rest of us to suss out which Muslims are violent extremists and which aren't. We can't possibly be arsed to actually understand the differences between various sects, groups, and branches. No, we demand that these unspecified 'leaders of the Muslim world' go around and label all the imams "radical" or "not radical." Repeatedly, clearly, and publicly, because otherwise it won't sink in. And if they don't do it often enough or clearly enough or publicly enough, well, that just means they're probably radical themselves.
Ugh. It makes as much sense as demanding that the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury tell us which Christian groups are okay and which ones are likely to do things like bomb abortion clinics or plot to take over the government.
posted by jedicus at 5:47 AM on October 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
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posted by mephron at 12:43 AM on October 20, 2010 [2 favorites]