Tea party in the Sonora: For the future of G.O.P. governance, look to Arizona.
January 9, 2011 5:30 PM Subscribe
Tea party in the Sonora: For the future of G.O.P. governance, look to Arizona. An article by Ken Silverstein, from the July 2010 issue of Harpers.
What a clusterfuck.
Sounds like the federal government is eventually going to have to step and rescue those fuckwits from themselves.
posted by empath at 5:41 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Sounds like the federal government is eventually going to have to step and rescue those fuckwits from themselves.
posted by empath at 5:41 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
We will have to destroy the Republican Party in order to save it.
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Somalia, Yemen, Arizona.
posted by chimaera at 5:52 PM on January 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by chimaera at 5:52 PM on January 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
The (Arizona state) house passed a measure that would force President Barack Obama to show his birth certificate to state officials if he runs for re-election...
Wait a minute. How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?
Then there was Sylvia Allen, a real estate broker from the town of Snowflake, who, in 2008, was appointed by the local Republican Party to finish the term of a respected conservative who had died in office. Allen, who retained her seat in an election that fall, has since gained minor notoriety after calling for more uranium mining, saying in a speech that “this earth has been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.” She also has complained that trees are “stealing Arizona’s water supply” and sponsored a new law that allows carriers of concealed weapons to forego safety training and the indignity of background checks.
Wow. Just wow.
posted by spoobnooble at 5:58 PM on January 9, 2011 [14 favorites]
Wait a minute. How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?
Then there was Sylvia Allen, a real estate broker from the town of Snowflake, who, in 2008, was appointed by the local Republican Party to finish the term of a respected conservative who had died in office. Allen, who retained her seat in an election that fall, has since gained minor notoriety after calling for more uranium mining, saying in a speech that “this earth has been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.” She also has complained that trees are “stealing Arizona’s water supply” and sponsored a new law that allows carriers of concealed weapons to forego safety training and the indignity of background checks.
Wow. Just wow.
posted by spoobnooble at 5:58 PM on January 9, 2011 [14 favorites]
Collectively they have bankrupted the state through a combination of ideological fanaticism on the Republican right and acquiescence and timidity on the part of G.O.P. moderates and Democrats.
I learned it from watching you, dad!
posted by drjimmy11 at 6:01 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I learned it from watching you, dad!
posted by drjimmy11 at 6:01 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?
I'm sure this is on top of the President's action item list.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on January 9, 2011
I'm sure this is on top of the President's action item list.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on January 9, 2011
How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules?
Each state gets to make their own rules about who gets on the ballot in their elections.
posted by EarBucket at 6:03 PM on January 9, 2011
Each state gets to make their own rules about who gets on the ballot in their elections.
posted by EarBucket at 6:03 PM on January 9, 2011
The (Arizona state) house passed a measure that would force President Barack Obama to show his birth certificate to state officials if he runs for re-election...
Wait a minute. How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?
Well, states do administer their own elections, even the ones for federal offices. However, this sounds like one of those things clownish local legislatures like to pass, knowing damn well it's completely unenforceable.
posted by drjimmy11 at 6:03 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Wait a minute. How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?
Well, states do administer their own elections, even the ones for federal offices. However, this sounds like one of those things clownish local legislatures like to pass, knowing damn well it's completely unenforceable.
posted by drjimmy11 at 6:03 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Wait a minute. How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?
The question of how a candidate qualifies to appear on the ballot is mostly up to the states -- that's why independents and candidates from third parties appear in some states and not in others.
posted by steambadger at 6:09 PM on January 9, 2011
The question of how a candidate qualifies to appear on the ballot is mostly up to the states -- that's why independents and candidates from third parties appear in some states and not in others.
posted by steambadger at 6:09 PM on January 9, 2011
How does a state like Arizona have public financing of campaigns? Did they get rid of that? I know Napolitano was elected governor on public financing.
posted by pashdown at 6:12 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by pashdown at 6:12 PM on January 9, 2011
In a few years people will no longer refer to crushing urban poverty as Dickensian, but as Arizonian.
posted by boubelium at 6:14 PM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by boubelium at 6:14 PM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
steambadger, drjimmy11, Brandon Blatcher, EarBucket: thanks for the info. I'm not American, so I don't know exactly how federal and state rights interact. But it does seem a little bizarre that a state could pass a law to basically force a sitting President to show I.D. Of course, this seems to be the least of their problems right now.
posted by spoobnooble at 6:15 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by spoobnooble at 6:15 PM on January 9, 2011
So what happens if the state does completely financially fail? Is the federal gov't obligated to bail out the state in some way?
posted by device55 at 6:16 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by device55 at 6:16 PM on January 9, 2011
you cant find this in the atlantic people!
posted by lslelel at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by lslelel at 6:20 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
But it does seem a little bizarre that a state could pass a law to basically force a sitting President to show I.D.
It's not that he's the President in that case; it's that he's seeking a place on the state ballot, and thus has only the privileges afforded any other candidate. The specific measure in AZ requires every candidate to show up and cough up a birth certificate, which allows the folks who came up with it to disingenuously tell the rest of it that it is totally not about proving that one guy isn't actually a Kenyan national.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 6:24 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's not that he's the President in that case; it's that he's seeking a place on the state ballot, and thus has only the privileges afforded any other candidate. The specific measure in AZ requires every candidate to show up and cough up a birth certificate, which allows the folks who came up with it to disingenuously tell the rest of it that it is totally not about proving that one guy isn't actually a Kenyan national.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 6:24 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
So what happens if the state does completely financially fail? Is the federal gov't obligated to bail out the state in some way?
If I were President and felt like being a political mastermind, I would bail out states only after they agreed to certain conditions. Something similar happened in Canada in the 1930s in which the fed took the provincial debt and in return the provinces had to make certain concessions. Say, for instance, if states want bail out money then they must also agree to set certain environmental standards or provide certain education standards etc...
Now the US Constitution would limit the scope of some of these concessions perhaps, but the Canadians had similar issues with the BNA Act, so these sorts of arrangements are possible.
posted by boubelium at 6:25 PM on January 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
If I were President and felt like being a political mastermind, I would bail out states only after they agreed to certain conditions. Something similar happened in Canada in the 1930s in which the fed took the provincial debt and in return the provinces had to make certain concessions. Say, for instance, if states want bail out money then they must also agree to set certain environmental standards or provide certain education standards etc...
Now the US Constitution would limit the scope of some of these concessions perhaps, but the Canadians had similar issues with the BNA Act, so these sorts of arrangements are possible.
posted by boubelium at 6:25 PM on January 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
Aren't they going to gain House seats in the redistricting?
Yeah, this will end well.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:25 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this will end well.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:25 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Stunt-government is never a good idea.
posted by LucretiusJones at 6:26 PM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by LucretiusJones at 6:26 PM on January 9, 2011 [6 favorites]
The same sort of money vs rights challenge happened when states who had an 18+ liquor law wanted federal highway money. They couldn't get money for their highways unless they raised the limit to 21+, which is why Wyoming and several other states complied.
posted by msbutah at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by msbutah at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
was that the entire article or only part? Hard to tell what's behind the paywall and what isn't.
posted by cogneuro at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by cogneuro at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wait a minute. How does a state pass laws that force the federal government to follow their rules? Is this even legal?Presidential elections are run by the states. Presumably, they would deny him ballot access. That said, if AZ decides to try to keep him off the ballot he could sue and probably win.
What's interesting about Arizona is how quickly this whole thing has changed. It always seemed like a particularly standard State. McCain supported Amnesty, etc. But just in the past few years people have absolutely freaked out. They jumped on the Lou-Dobbs "Illegals are stealing er JERBS!!" nonsense and haven't looked back.
posted by delmoi at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Libertarians, look upon your works, and despair.
posted by smoke at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [23 favorites]
posted by smoke at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2011 [23 favorites]
We neither have the will to oppose them, nor the strength to let them die when the time comes and the hard bill of lifelong selfishness needs to be put paid.
posted by umberto at 6:59 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by umberto at 6:59 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's the whole article. They recently made it public. (Most likely because Arizona is in the news.)
posted by chunking express at 7:00 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by chunking express at 7:00 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
So what happens if the state does completely financially fail? Is the federal gov't obligated to bail out the state in some way?
Here's something kind of amazing and terrifying. We don't know. Certainly the federal government is not compelled to bail them out. There is some argument that the bondholders can force certain kinds of taxes to be increased (very complicated, and it isn't things like income tax). Even stranger - we don't have an insolvency process for government entities either, so they can't even restructure their debts in court.
posted by JPD at 7:05 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here's something kind of amazing and terrifying. We don't know. Certainly the federal government is not compelled to bail them out. There is some argument that the bondholders can force certain kinds of taxes to be increased (very complicated, and it isn't things like income tax). Even stranger - we don't have an insolvency process for government entities either, so they can't even restructure their debts in court.
posted by JPD at 7:05 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
When did Arizona become the new Texas? Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:08 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:08 PM on January 9, 2011
I would bail out states only after they agreed to certain conditions.
There is a rumor around that part of the repubs plan is to force states into default, then as part of a restructuring from the feds require the renegotiation and/or outright cancellation of unionized labor contracts. Not sure how credible that is, but its not the crazy thing the repubs have tried to do in the last year.
posted by JPD at 7:08 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
There is a rumor around that part of the repubs plan is to force states into default, then as part of a restructuring from the feds require the renegotiation and/or outright cancellation of unionized labor contracts. Not sure how credible that is, but its not the crazy thing the repubs have tried to do in the last year.
posted by JPD at 7:08 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Then there was Sylvia Allen, a real estate broker from the town of Snowflake, who, in 2008, was appointed by the local Republican Party to finish the term of a respected conservative who had died in office. Allen, who retained her seat in an election that fall, has since gained minor notoriety after calling for more uranium mining, saying in a speech that “this earth has been here 6,000 years, long before anybody had environmental laws, and somehow it hasn’t been done away with.” She also has complained that trees are “stealing Arizona’s water supply” and sponsored a new law that allows carriers of concealed weapons to forego safety training and the indignity of background checks.
As my mechanic is fond of saying: "Well there's your problem right there." 6,000 years is entirely too short a span of time for some people to evolve into sentient beings. (Giving them the keys to government doesn't gimme hope for the next 6,000 years, either.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:10 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
As my mechanic is fond of saying: "Well there's your problem right there." 6,000 years is entirely too short a span of time for some people to evolve into sentient beings. (Giving them the keys to government doesn't gimme hope for the next 6,000 years, either.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:10 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I shudder to think that Texas is an oil well or two away from becoming Arizona.
posted by immlass at 7:12 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by immlass at 7:12 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The same sort of money vs rights challenge happened when states who had an 18+ liquor law wanted federal highway money. They couldn't get money for their highways unless they raised the limit to 21+, which is why Wyoming and several other states complied.
Louisiana's long holdout on the matter is also a big part of why the state has so many shitty roads.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:25 PM on January 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Louisiana's long holdout on the matter is also a big part of why the state has so many shitty roads.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:25 PM on January 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
So what happens if the state does completely financially fail? Is the federal gov't obligated to bail out the state in some way?
Legally: No.
Ethically, practically, and politically: Unquestionably.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:29 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Legally: No.
Ethically, practically, and politically: Unquestionably.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:29 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The net effect of this is that out-migration will destroy the state over the next few years, the same as the depopulation of vast swaths of the Great Plains. Arizona never really had much to recommend it; its success was an illusion of an unsustainable boom. It will be barely-inhabited desert again before long.
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:35 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by sonic meat machine at 7:35 PM on January 9, 2011
Crap like this is why, even though they really REALLY irritate me, I will continue to vote Democrat.
posted by frodisaur at 7:37 PM on January 9, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by frodisaur at 7:37 PM on January 9, 2011 [11 favorites]
Arizona was not always this bad.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 7:38 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 7:38 PM on January 9, 2011
It will be barely-inhabited desert again before long.With two Senate seats.
posted by Flunkie at 7:47 PM on January 9, 2011 [8 favorites]
No, really, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.
It just so happens to have the added convenience of being not only opinionated but true.
posted by blucevalo at 7:49 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
It just so happens to have the added convenience of being not only opinionated but true.
posted by blucevalo at 7:49 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah our government is fucking nuts, but it is really nice down here in Tucson and up north in Flagstaff. Come visit!
posted by nestor_makhno at 7:53 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by nestor_makhno at 7:53 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Articles like this is why it's worthwhile to have a subscription to Harpers; $15 a year on Amazon.
posted by wcfields at 7:57 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by wcfields at 7:57 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
The frightful engines of ecclesiastical councils, of diabolical malice, and Calvinistical good-nature never failed to terrify me exceedingly whenever I thought of preaching.
-John Adams
posted by clavdivs at 8:01 PM on January 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
-John Adams
posted by clavdivs at 8:01 PM on January 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
With a few well-chosen word alterations, this article could easily be about my old home state of South Carolina. The railing against increasing taxes while cutting necessary services well past the breaking point, trying to be pro-business at the risk of utterly decimating the rights of the average worker, I've heard all this song and dance for too many years now. As much as I'd like to pin this on one party or the other, both have blithely played into this narrative, and I'd like to hope I'm too adult point and laugh, but I'm pretty sure I'll sigh and shake my head while the politicians continue to rail against big government for driving them into this mess...
posted by 1f2frfbf at 8:05 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by 1f2frfbf at 8:05 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Halloween Jack: "Aren't they going to gain House seats in the redistricting? "
One, but their policies may have cost them another one.
posted by octothorpe at 8:14 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
One, but their policies may have cost them another one.
posted by octothorpe at 8:14 PM on January 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
:(It will be barely-inhabited desert again before long.With two Senate seats.
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:18 PM on January 9, 2011
so instead of sinking the government into a bathtub, Arizonans are burying it in desert. WOW!
posted by liza at 8:29 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by liza at 8:29 PM on January 9, 2011
Oh, this makes me so happy to think about my own state now having R's in charge of both houses and the governor's mansion.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:30 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by NorthernLite at 8:30 PM on January 9, 2011
Bioshock 3: Rapture in the Desert.
posted by JimmyJames at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by JimmyJames at 8:47 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Although tax cuts “have lowered government revenues,” they “have not had any perceptible effect on the state’s economic growth,” concluded an Arizona State University business-school study, published last November, that examined the past three decades of fiscal policy.
Here's a link to that study.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:04 PM on January 9, 2011 [7 favorites]
Here's a link to that study.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:04 PM on January 9, 2011 [7 favorites]
>No, really, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.
It just so happens to have the added convenience of being not only opinionated but true.
Another choice quote from the article:
Being a member of the legislature is not considered a prestige job—the office pays only $24,000 annually
posted by KokuRyu at 9:09 PM on January 9, 2011
It just so happens to have the added convenience of being not only opinionated but true.
Another choice quote from the article:
Being a member of the legislature is not considered a prestige job—the office pays only $24,000 annually
posted by KokuRyu at 9:09 PM on January 9, 2011
Every state is experiencing budget cutbacks. If you cut taxes back far enough you will have a desperate situation. I'm not happy people have to go through this turmoil, but I do look forward to fresh evidence of the failed policy of constantly lowering tax rates that has been going on the last 30+ years. I hope that when things get so bad, anti-tax nuts will have lost all credibility.
posted by l2p at 9:58 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by l2p at 9:58 PM on January 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think this Bob the Angry Flower comic refers to tax cuts. It's often hard to tell. In any case, it fits.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:53 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:53 PM on January 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
(Or possibly it refers to the Iraq war. Either way ...)
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:53 PM on January 9, 2011
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:53 PM on January 9, 2011
Thanks for linking that study, KokuRyu. It's an interesting read, especially the "Taxes and Economic Growth" section starting on page nine. I've bookmarked it so I can show it to the next supply-side true-believer I get into a discussion with; it's got a nice discussion of the Laffer curve and why it doesn't necessarily mean what the "Taxes are TEH EEBIL!1!!" crowd thinks it does.
It's nice to have some corroboration for the original article, which drips a bit too much schadenfreude to be taken at its word. I mean, yeah, I don't trust right-wing Republicans to manage a government without running it into the ground either, but wipe the drool off your chin there, Harpers. Sheesh.
posted by Zimboe Metamonkey at 11:26 PM on January 9, 2011
It's nice to have some corroboration for the original article, which drips a bit too much schadenfreude to be taken at its word. I mean, yeah, I don't trust right-wing Republicans to manage a government without running it into the ground either, but wipe the drool off your chin there, Harpers. Sheesh.
posted by Zimboe Metamonkey at 11:26 PM on January 9, 2011
No, really, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.
I don't think you would like it if I did that.
posted by anigbrowl at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2011
I don't think you would like it if I did that.
posted by anigbrowl at 11:41 PM on January 9, 2011
I hope that when things get so bad, anti-tax nuts will have lost all credibility.
The failure of failed states never seems to detract from the animosity the locals will have to their saviors.
What's the quote again? "Arizonans will greet us with flowers and open arms."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:26 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
The failure of failed states never seems to detract from the animosity the locals will have to their saviors.
What's the quote again? "Arizonans will greet us with flowers and open arms."
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:26 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
If you want a clear view of the Arizona Tea Party, you can start with Ray "Guitarzan" Stevens' God Save Arizona. He's green-screened in front of the ugly capitol building the FPP article mentions.
I live in Tucson right now - 4 miles from the shooting on Saturday. I've marched against SB1070 and seen the neo-Nazis standing on state property and giving the sieg-heil. (I also know some of the clowns that got tear-gassed protesting the yearly National Socialist march 2 months ago.) If anyone tells you SB1070 or any of the immigration debate isn't about racism, they are wrong. (Here's Doug Stanhope discussing living in Bisbee (at 1:40), which is 7 miles from the border.) This is THE battle ground state for racists.
I know people who have been targeted by that corrupt crab-apple, Sheriff Joe. (I was the 2nd person to edit his wikipedia page and at the time I worried that I would get targeted, too.) I've seen the endless succession of bad governors, with Jan Brewer being the worst in a long time, in my opinion.
It's hard to defend how the political winds have turned down here. It's a large, diverse state. Not everyone here is a wing-nut tea partier, or worse. I hope the links weren't too much, it's way too late to post all of the good stuff I know about that happens down here.
posted by Catblack at 1:11 AM on January 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
I live in Tucson right now - 4 miles from the shooting on Saturday. I've marched against SB1070 and seen the neo-Nazis standing on state property and giving the sieg-heil. (I also know some of the clowns that got tear-gassed protesting the yearly National Socialist march 2 months ago.) If anyone tells you SB1070 or any of the immigration debate isn't about racism, they are wrong. (Here's Doug Stanhope discussing living in Bisbee (at 1:40), which is 7 miles from the border.) This is THE battle ground state for racists.
I know people who have been targeted by that corrupt crab-apple, Sheriff Joe. (I was the 2nd person to edit his wikipedia page and at the time I worried that I would get targeted, too.) I've seen the endless succession of bad governors, with Jan Brewer being the worst in a long time, in my opinion.
It's hard to defend how the political winds have turned down here. It's a large, diverse state. Not everyone here is a wing-nut tea partier, or worse. I hope the links weren't too much, it's way too late to post all of the good stuff I know about that happens down here.
posted by Catblack at 1:11 AM on January 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
As an Arizonan, I would like to sincerely apologize for all the fucktards. Sigh.
And yet, we passed medical marijuana. So there's hope, yet.
posted by disillusioned at 1:22 AM on January 10, 2011
And yet, we passed medical marijuana. So there's hope, yet.
posted by disillusioned at 1:22 AM on January 10, 2011
Jan Brewer - Not Afraid To Do What The Federal Government Won't And Shouldn't (The Onion)
Also, this passage from the Harper's article:
"The engine of economic growth in Arizona was growth itself—real estate in particular, but also a host of related industries: construction, hauling, landscaping, roofing, painting, remodeling, swimming-pool maintenance, architecture, plumbing, and on and on."
reminds me of my old stomping grounds, the northern suburbs of Detroit. For a time, the vast expansion of construction jobs slightly took the edge off of the hurt of the failing auto industry. Of course, now there are lots of half-finished buildings and no more jobs, and lots of people who are underwater on their McMansion mortgages.
posted by dhens at 1:52 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, this passage from the Harper's article:
"The engine of economic growth in Arizona was growth itself—real estate in particular, but also a host of related industries: construction, hauling, landscaping, roofing, painting, remodeling, swimming-pool maintenance, architecture, plumbing, and on and on."
reminds me of my old stomping grounds, the northern suburbs of Detroit. For a time, the vast expansion of construction jobs slightly took the edge off of the hurt of the failing auto industry. Of course, now there are lots of half-finished buildings and no more jobs, and lots of people who are underwater on their McMansion mortgages.
posted by dhens at 1:52 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Jon Talton writes some interesting pieces on Arizona.
posted by metagnathous at 1:52 AM on January 10, 2011
posted by metagnathous at 1:52 AM on January 10, 2011
Flunkie:
posted by brokkr at 2:43 AM on January 10, 2011
New Old Sarum."It will be barely-inhabited desert again before long."With two Senate seats.
posted by brokkr at 2:43 AM on January 10, 2011
Arizona was not always this bad.
It will be barely-inhabited desert again before long.
So there's hope
posted by the noob at 4:31 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
It will be barely-inhabited desert again before long.
So there's hope
posted by the noob at 4:31 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
There is a rumor around that part of the repubs plan is to force states into default, then as part of a restructuring from the feds require the renegotiation and/or outright cancellation of unionized labor contracts.
Yup. I've heard that one, too. It certainly dovetails with the fairly steady "unions are bankrupting us" drumbeat coming from Fox News since the election.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:49 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yup. I've heard that one, too. It certainly dovetails with the fairly steady "unions are bankrupting us" drumbeat coming from Fox News since the election.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:49 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah... what can I tell you? Things are all fucked up here in AZ. Not my fault!
... it's weird, though, living in a place where people -- taken collectively anyway -- seem to be crazy. Don't get me wrong -- I've met lots of awesome folks here, got a great group of friends -- but it's weird just how dumb the average person is here. (That said, people are, in general, surprisingly friendly. This may be because, as a Jew with a beard, they might suspect I'm Jesus.)
That said, the state itself is amazing and there tons of great stuff to do here, especially if you like the play outside. And that's the problem -- 3/4ths of the year, the weather here is ridiculously nice and the rest of the time you spend soaking in a pool. I went running without a shirt on Saturday. (Around the artificial lake near my house, naturally.) That is to say, it's hard to get worked up about much of anything when you're out on the lake, just chillin'. Our college campuses are staunchly pro-fun and apolitical, so no one except the hardcore right and the teachers are really engaging the political process in an active way, especially during the primaries.
I mean... that article doesn't even touch on the mess that's Maricopa County government. Our prosecutor was going after judges and members of the county board with some kind of crazy bribery accusation involving the building of a court house, charges that still haven't been at all substantiated. The Sherrif's office raided county offices, took control of computer systems. And on and on...
posted by ph00dz at 5:59 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
... it's weird, though, living in a place where people -- taken collectively anyway -- seem to be crazy. Don't get me wrong -- I've met lots of awesome folks here, got a great group of friends -- but it's weird just how dumb the average person is here. (That said, people are, in general, surprisingly friendly. This may be because, as a Jew with a beard, they might suspect I'm Jesus.)
That said, the state itself is amazing and there tons of great stuff to do here, especially if you like the play outside. And that's the problem -- 3/4ths of the year, the weather here is ridiculously nice and the rest of the time you spend soaking in a pool. I went running without a shirt on Saturday. (Around the artificial lake near my house, naturally.) That is to say, it's hard to get worked up about much of anything when you're out on the lake, just chillin'. Our college campuses are staunchly pro-fun and apolitical, so no one except the hardcore right and the teachers are really engaging the political process in an active way, especially during the primaries.
I mean... that article doesn't even touch on the mess that's Maricopa County government. Our prosecutor was going after judges and members of the county board with some kind of crazy bribery accusation involving the building of a court house, charges that still haven't been at all substantiated. The Sherrif's office raided county offices, took control of computer systems. And on and on...
posted by ph00dz at 5:59 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Florida's not much better off, sadly. We've been under Republican rule for nearly two decades. We're on the verge of a $3 billion budget shortfall, have one of the highest unemployment rates in the US (12%), and have seen most of our industries--and of course our real estate markets--collapse.
Meanwhile, flooding to the polls to "send a message," discontent Florida voters stunningly defied both reason and common sense to overwhelmingly reelect the same party that's been running the show in the state the whole time this mess has been building up.
The Republicans now hold super-majorities in the legislature, with both bodies firmly under their control. And our new billionaire Governor Rick Scott wants to enact Arizona-style immigration laws and to privatize the prison system, for basically the same reasons they did this in Arizona: To help out the Republicans' patrons in the private prison industry. You know, the ones who drafted and lobbied for the Arizona immigration legislation.
Why? So those guys can put their project in operation here in Florida, too: set up more private prisons, lock up as many "questionable-looking" people as possible, force them to work for slave wages making products for market, sell the goods at a markup, profit, repeat.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:05 AM on January 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, flooding to the polls to "send a message," discontent Florida voters stunningly defied both reason and common sense to overwhelmingly reelect the same party that's been running the show in the state the whole time this mess has been building up.
The Republicans now hold super-majorities in the legislature, with both bodies firmly under their control. And our new billionaire Governor Rick Scott wants to enact Arizona-style immigration laws and to privatize the prison system, for basically the same reasons they did this in Arizona: To help out the Republicans' patrons in the private prison industry. You know, the ones who drafted and lobbied for the Arizona immigration legislation.
Why? So those guys can put their project in operation here in Florida, too: set up more private prisons, lock up as many "questionable-looking" people as possible, force them to work for slave wages making products for market, sell the goods at a markup, profit, repeat.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:05 AM on January 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Secession doesn't sound so bad now does it...
We've had 49 states before, there's nothing special about 50 other than it's a round number.
posted by tommasz at 7:34 AM on January 10, 2011
We've had 49 states before, there's nothing special about 50 other than it's a round number.
posted by tommasz at 7:34 AM on January 10, 2011
So all the conservative anti welfare California hating states are in the end, again going to make a big grab for Fed funding, which means the land of fruits and nuts (I say that with love in my heart) is again supporting the right wing "we're all about self reliance" states.
posted by cccorlew at 7:41 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by cccorlew at 7:41 AM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm not American, so I don't know exactly how federal and state rights interact
Hahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahhahah ahahahahahhahah ahahahah
*wipes tear*
I see what you did there.
posted by nzero at 8:16 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahhahah ahahahahahhahah ahahahah
*wipes tear*
I see what you did there.
posted by nzero at 8:16 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
To be fair, IL and CA are just as broke if not more so. Whereas you could envision giving AZ back to Mexico, we've got too-big-to-fail going.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by a robot made out of meat at 8:29 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
To be fair, IL and CA are just as broke if not more so. Whereas you could envision giving AZ back to Mexico, we've got too-big-to-fail going.
Though if you divided CA down the middle, south of the Bay Area, wouldn't the northern half be profitable? The south could be merged with Arizona to form a sort of bad bank of nonviable states.
posted by acb at 8:48 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Though if you divided CA down the middle, south of the Bay Area, wouldn't the northern half be profitable? The south could be merged with Arizona to form a sort of bad bank of nonviable states.
posted by acb at 8:48 AM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
To be fair, IL and CA are just as broke if not more so.
Illinois has the advantages of a sane (if corrupt) legislature and a well-meaning (if lackluster) governor. A tax increase is actually viable here, and it's likely that a big one will pass before Wednesday.
posted by Iridic at 9:09 AM on January 10, 2011
Illinois has the advantages of a sane (if corrupt) legislature and a well-meaning (if lackluster) governor. A tax increase is actually viable here, and it's likely that a big one will pass before Wednesday.
posted by Iridic at 9:09 AM on January 10, 2011
Yeah, but I think excising Arizona would be like having Somalia right next door... No sense in actively creating a failed state as a neighboring country.
posted by kaibutsu at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2011
posted by kaibutsu at 9:16 AM on January 10, 2011
Yeah, but I think excising Arizona would be like having Somalia right next door... No sense in actively creating a failed state as a neighboring country.
Eh, we'll just build a big wall around it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:19 AM on January 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
Eh, we'll just build a big wall around it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:19 AM on January 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
With a few well-chosen word alterations, this article could easily be about my old home state of South Carolina.
South Carolina's neighbor Georgia is the same way. This cartoon that could be from The Onion has been on the break room bulletin board since last April; never mind that the hospital where I work gets a large part of its funding, both directly and indirectly from taxes. That anti-tax attitude was also evident in last November's elections, when a majority in our state decided that $10/year added to car registration was too much to pay to bring our trauma system up to par. Never mind that 700 or so people a year are estimated to die needlessly because access to trauma care is so bad, especially in the southern part of the state. And like the Arizona legislature our state government prefers to dodge the hard decisions and grandstand about things like requiring ID to vote (despite the fact that most fraud occurs with absentee ballots).
posted by TedW at 9:40 AM on January 10, 2011
South Carolina's neighbor Georgia is the same way. This cartoon that could be from The Onion has been on the break room bulletin board since last April; never mind that the hospital where I work gets a large part of its funding, both directly and indirectly from taxes. That anti-tax attitude was also evident in last November's elections, when a majority in our state decided that $10/year added to car registration was too much to pay to bring our trauma system up to par. Never mind that 700 or so people a year are estimated to die needlessly because access to trauma care is so bad, especially in the southern part of the state. And like the Arizona legislature our state government prefers to dodge the hard decisions and grandstand about things like requiring ID to vote (despite the fact that most fraud occurs with absentee ballots).
posted by TedW at 9:40 AM on January 10, 2011
What I find really funny (black humor - not funny haha) though, is the changes for the transplant list in Arizona.
That's right - the Tea Party philosophy has effectively built their own state legislated Death Panel in an effort to cut costs.
I love irony, but not at the cost of someone's life... which in this case it effectively is.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:02 AM on January 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
That's right - the Tea Party philosophy has effectively built their own state legislated Death Panel in an effort to cut costs.
I love irony, but not at the cost of someone's life... which in this case it effectively is.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:02 AM on January 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
Thanks for that link, Nanukthedog. This is exactly the sort of thing that is needed to ward off the magical thinking that has taken over US political thought.
posted by Mister_A at 11:15 AM on January 10, 2011
posted by Mister_A at 11:15 AM on January 10, 2011
South Carolina's neighbor Georgia is the same way.
Aaaaand guess where I moved...
*sigh*
posted by 1f2frfbf at 11:26 AM on January 10, 2011
Aaaaand guess where I moved...
*sigh*
posted by 1f2frfbf at 11:26 AM on January 10, 2011
Aaaaand guess where I moved...
Come on, we'll go shoot some guns, boil some peanuts and eat some BBQ. Then we'll get liquored up and go muddin'!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:28 AM on January 10, 2011
Come on, we'll go shoot some guns, boil some peanuts and eat some BBQ. Then we'll get liquored up and go muddin'!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:28 AM on January 10, 2011
We've had 49 states before, there's nothing special about 50 other than it's a round number.
Well, Costa Rica seems to be OK, why don't we take that as a replacement state? The real problem of course, is how to get Arizona to secede. Can we sell it to Mexico? Or will we have to pay Mexico to haul it away?
posted by happyroach at 1:27 PM on January 10, 2011
Well, Costa Rica seems to be OK, why don't we take that as a replacement state? The real problem of course, is how to get Arizona to secede. Can we sell it to Mexico? Or will we have to pay Mexico to haul it away?
posted by happyroach at 1:27 PM on January 10, 2011
Yeah, but I think excising Arizona would be like having Somalia right next door... No sense in actively creating a failed state as a neighboring country.
I'm visualisingSherriff Warlord Arpaio wearing a necklace of skulls, grinning as he demonstratively totes a rocket launcher.
posted by acb at 1:54 PM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm visualising
posted by acb at 1:54 PM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, Costa Rica seems to be OK, why don't we take that as a replacement state? The real problem of course, is how to get Arizona to secede. Can we sell it to Mexico? Or will we have to pay Mexico to haul it away?
Assuming that the Costa Ricans want to join the US. They're probably not going to do it for the health care or infrastructure funding.
Also, didn't Puerto Rico vote against following the path to statehood some years ago?
posted by acb at 1:56 PM on January 10, 2011
Assuming that the Costa Ricans want to join the US. They're probably not going to do it for the health care or infrastructure funding.
Also, didn't Puerto Rico vote against following the path to statehood some years ago?
posted by acb at 1:56 PM on January 10, 2011
The three state universities have scrapped whole degree programs and may soon have to shutter entire campuses. Funding for GED programs and adult-education courses has been reduced to zero.
Bravo, Teabaggers! Way to pave the way for future supporters of your policies--keep 'em ignorant and they'll keep voting your way! Tea Party On!
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:32 PM on January 10, 2011
Bravo, Teabaggers! Way to pave the way for future supporters of your policies--keep 'em ignorant and they'll keep voting your way! Tea Party On!
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:32 PM on January 10, 2011
Eh, we'll just build a big wall around it.
They will just find a way through the wall. Because they have to buy their guns from somewhere.
posted by srboisvert at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2011
They will just find a way through the wall. Because they have to buy their guns from somewhere.
posted by srboisvert at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2011
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No, really, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.
posted by Tomorrowful at 5:40 PM on January 9, 2011 [4 favorites]