UCB’s development deal with Seeso had "masked two years of deficits"
December 23, 2018 7:00 PM Subscribe
Earlier this month, the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre laid off an unknown number of employees, including most of its sales and marketing staff. [NYT] Seth Simons obtained audio recordings of a meeting with UCB leadership (including three of the four founders: Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, and Ian Roberts) that paints the "UCB 4" as having "no cogent vision for the theatre’s future." But of course, performers will still not be paid.
A third delay, on December 14th, was later attributed to the layoff of the employee handling payroll
This is fine.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:15 PM on December 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
This is fine.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:15 PM on December 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
It's always been like Est but for delaying law school.
posted by The Whelk at 7:18 PM on December 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:18 PM on December 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
(A third delay, on December 14th, was later attributed to the layoff of the employee handling payroll.)
Oh my god. What a cluster fuck. So OK, you famous comedians don't want to run a theater. But you know that if you have a business, someone has to run it? Like, it's a business? Someone has to run it? What the fuck?
This Ian Roberts guy seems wildly incompetent:
On Wednesday they announced the hiring of a chief financial officer, to start in January, and the formation of a “performer advocate group” to serve as a liaison between the theatre’s community and its management. They did not specify how this body would function or on what specific issues. When asked if it would have a say in major organizational decisions, UCB founder Ian Roberts struggled to understand the question.
Apparently they have no plan and no goals other than "not closing", but are making decisions like buying any available theater instead of thinking that location has anything to do with attendance. And that attendance is where their money comes from. It really boggles the mind.
posted by bleep at 7:20 PM on December 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Oh my god. What a cluster fuck. So OK, you famous comedians don't want to run a theater. But you know that if you have a business, someone has to run it? Like, it's a business? Someone has to run it? What the fuck?
This Ian Roberts guy seems wildly incompetent:
On Wednesday they announced the hiring of a chief financial officer, to start in January, and the formation of a “performer advocate group” to serve as a liaison between the theatre’s community and its management. They did not specify how this body would function or on what specific issues. When asked if it would have a say in major organizational decisions, UCB founder Ian Roberts struggled to understand the question.
Apparently they have no plan and no goals other than "not closing", but are making decisions like buying any available theater instead of thinking that location has anything to do with attendance. And that attendance is where their money comes from. It really boggles the mind.
posted by bleep at 7:20 PM on December 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
They don’t want the job, they don’t profit from the job, they haven’t been doing the job, and they’re not good at the job. So why do they still have the job?
Is this just how everything in the US is now? Is this just the new normal?
posted by bleep at 7:22 PM on December 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
Is this just how everything in the US is now? Is this just the new normal?
posted by bleep at 7:22 PM on December 23, 2018 [32 favorites]
Whew, for a second I thought the UCB in the headline was University of California - Berkeley.
posted by heatherlogan at 7:25 PM on December 23, 2018
posted by heatherlogan at 7:25 PM on December 23, 2018
Hiring a CFO is very much the right move here. I think they will be fine - honestly it just sounds like they need someone to take a good look at the books, and they can make some adjustments.
Also they still have a job because they started the theatre! I think it’s better to be screwed by ignorance then it is by malice. I don’t know the ownership structure but if I had to guess I would say that they don’t have any external investors. If they did I am willing to bet they would be in a better location, school prices would be 2x and also expanded into minor markets with an explicit pipe-dream pitch, and they would definitely not be even thinking about paying performers. It could be worse!!!
posted by The Ted at 7:29 PM on December 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also they still have a job because they started the theatre! I think it’s better to be screwed by ignorance then it is by malice. I don’t know the ownership structure but if I had to guess I would say that they don’t have any external investors. If they did I am willing to bet they would be in a better location, school prices would be 2x and also expanded into minor markets with an explicit pipe-dream pitch, and they would definitely not be even thinking about paying performers. It could be worse!!!
posted by The Ted at 7:29 PM on December 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I mean I guess ignorance is better than malice but the enormous ignorance on display in this case is just upsetting because it's so unbelievably common and yet so hard to understand. I have never run a business but apparently I know more than them? Like the location of your business matters? And if there's one person who knows how to do payroll, you need them to continue to working for you if you care about people getting their paychecks? If you can't afford to pay one person to process pay roll then maybe your business has already failed? And if you don't care about people getting their paychecks, how is that not malice?
posted by bleep at 7:49 PM on December 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by bleep at 7:49 PM on December 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
The UCB Theater has always been a pyramid scheme so it's pretty nice to see it crumbling.
posted by kafziel at 7:50 PM on December 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by kafziel at 7:50 PM on December 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Wow it’s like watching Martin & Orloff but in real life
posted by infinitewindow at 7:58 PM on December 23, 2018
posted by infinitewindow at 7:58 PM on December 23, 2018
hahahaha they moved from 26th and 8th to 42nd and 11th??? only people that have spent the last 20 years in LA would think that was a good idea
posted by Automocar at 8:18 PM on December 23, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 8:18 PM on December 23, 2018 [9 favorites]
Succeeding in the arts, acting and comedy are pretty much the realm of rich kids now. They’re the only ones that can be exploited and work for free for the years it takes to make it. That’s why almost everything feels so generic and finding something out there that’s fresh or interesting is such a surprise. It all comes from the same place. Privilege.
posted by You Stay 'Ere An Make Sure 'E Doesn't Leave at 8:18 PM on December 23, 2018 [39 favorites]
posted by You Stay 'Ere An Make Sure 'E Doesn't Leave at 8:18 PM on December 23, 2018 [39 favorites]
Oh and of course they should fucking pay their performers. Christ give em minimum wage for stage time at the very least. That would cost like $75 a show max. If they can’t even afford that then good lord what are they even doing.
posted by Automocar at 8:25 PM on December 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 8:25 PM on December 23, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by You Stay 'Ere An Make Sure 'E Doesn't Leave: Succeeding in the arts, acting and comedy are pretty much the realm of rich kids now.
Back in my day, (pre-internet), you could afford to live by just having a regular, 40 hr a week blue collar job. You could be a waitress and still have time do improv sets. You could be a bartender and probably pull 3 nights a week free for honing an act or taking a class. I knew comedians who worked fast food gigs, but could still afford apartments and cars and booze. I mean, we all had roommates, but we could all try to pursue some arts/creative passion and still keep the lights on.
Now? I don't think that's possible. Retail and entry jobs aren't paying much better now than they did in 1989, and in actual buying power, they probably earn less. (This statement is opinion, as I don't have any cites handy.)
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:36 PM on December 23, 2018 [24 favorites]
Back in my day, (pre-internet), you could afford to live by just having a regular, 40 hr a week blue collar job. You could be a waitress and still have time do improv sets. You could be a bartender and probably pull 3 nights a week free for honing an act or taking a class. I knew comedians who worked fast food gigs, but could still afford apartments and cars and booze. I mean, we all had roommates, but we could all try to pursue some arts/creative passion and still keep the lights on.
Now? I don't think that's possible. Retail and entry jobs aren't paying much better now than they did in 1989, and in actual buying power, they probably earn less. (This statement is opinion, as I don't have any cites handy.)
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:36 PM on December 23, 2018 [24 favorites]
It's no secret that Ian Roberts has a history of questionable practices with money.
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:51 PM on December 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:51 PM on December 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
So where's the part where they attempt to stage a play so bad that it will fail, knowing they can make more money with a bad show than a good one?
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:33 PM on December 23, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:33 PM on December 23, 2018 [18 favorites]
hahahaha they moved from 26th and 8th to 42nd and 11th??? only people that have spent the last 20 years in LA would think that was a good idea
So untrue. The last place was literally in the basement of a supermarket. And unless you got there early and waited in the cold, your seats would either be partially obstructed by a pillar or else facing the stage from the side, forcing you to watch the whole show in profile. The new theatre is an actual theatre with like normal seats and not in the basement of a Gristedes. No matter when you get there, you get a normal seat with a normal line of sight and can enjoy the show. Also, the new place is handicap-accessible, which I think was ostensibly the reason for the move. So it's an all-around good thing, trust me. Their financial woes, not so much.
posted by panama joe at 9:41 PM on December 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
So untrue. The last place was literally in the basement of a supermarket. And unless you got there early and waited in the cold, your seats would either be partially obstructed by a pillar or else facing the stage from the side, forcing you to watch the whole show in profile. The new theatre is an actual theatre with like normal seats and not in the basement of a Gristedes. No matter when you get there, you get a normal seat with a normal line of sight and can enjoy the show. Also, the new place is handicap-accessible, which I think was ostensibly the reason for the move. So it's an all-around good thing, trust me. Their financial woes, not so much.
posted by panama joe at 9:41 PM on December 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
The location and the quality of the theater are two completely different things no one wants to walk three crosstown blocks to the ass end of midtown
posted by Automocar at 9:50 PM on December 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 9:50 PM on December 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
But when Hudson Yards opens, all those zillionaire's kids who end up living there are going to want to go out and catch some improv, right?
posted by thecjm at 10:23 PM on December 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 10:23 PM on December 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Last week the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre laid off most of its sales and marketing staff, while encouraging its unpaid performers and writers, whom it stressed it has no intentions to pay, to put more effort into promoting their shows.
And there it is. They need the performers more than the performers need them.
This whole "art for art's sake" bullshit that has plagued the creative world for a century is at the root of this. There will always be another group of semi-talented rubes willing to perform for nothing. As long as this is so, why should anyone pay even exceptionally talented performers? Today's producers apparently want actors who are first and foremost exceptionally good at strong-arming their friends and family into paying for tickets.
The actor is the product in charge of marketing itself so the organization can make money. Community theaters (and UCB is an amateur community theater until they pay) make money off of the unpaid labor of the performers- without whom they'd cease to exist. Everyone thinks Mr. Guffman is going to show up one day dlls change their life.
They don't see anything wrong with it because the UCB 4 were also unpaid performers at one point. It's hard to see the injustice of the system when that system made you.
So yeah unless you're rich and white and can afford to do art for art's sake, this art ain't for you. Which is bullshit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:37 PM on December 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
And there it is. They need the performers more than the performers need them.
This whole "art for art's sake" bullshit that has plagued the creative world for a century is at the root of this. There will always be another group of semi-talented rubes willing to perform for nothing. As long as this is so, why should anyone pay even exceptionally talented performers? Today's producers apparently want actors who are first and foremost exceptionally good at strong-arming their friends and family into paying for tickets.
The actor is the product in charge of marketing itself so the organization can make money. Community theaters (and UCB is an amateur community theater until they pay) make money off of the unpaid labor of the performers- without whom they'd cease to exist. Everyone thinks Mr. Guffman is going to show up one day dlls change their life.
They don't see anything wrong with it because the UCB 4 were also unpaid performers at one point. It's hard to see the injustice of the system when that system made you.
So yeah unless you're rich and white and can afford to do art for art's sake, this art ain't for you. Which is bullshit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:37 PM on December 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
There will always be another group of semi-talented rubes willing to perform for nothing.
This is only true insofar as "semi-retired rubes" can be substituted for "a wide range of people with diverse motivations and levels of talent". If you could only get"semi-retired rubes" for free, then the economics of the creative industries would be very different. There really are more talented people who want to perform at every level of skill than there are ever going to be paying performance jobs, and insisting that this isn't true because we wish it weren't isn't going to help us find a solution to the problems of exploitation it gives rise to.
posted by howfar at 1:44 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
This is only true insofar as "semi-retired rubes" can be substituted for "a wide range of people with diverse motivations and levels of talent". If you could only get"semi-retired rubes" for free, then the economics of the creative industries would be very different. There really are more talented people who want to perform at every level of skill than there are ever going to be paying performance jobs, and insisting that this isn't true because we wish it weren't isn't going to help us find a solution to the problems of exploitation it gives rise to.
posted by howfar at 1:44 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
This whole "art for art's sake" bullshit that has plagued the creative world for a century is at the root of this.
To add, that this is an issue of the large century isn't a weird freak of history. It is a direct product of recorded media completely changing the economics of entertainment. It's not a free-floating ideological construct, it arises directly from the pertaining material conditions.
posted by howfar at 1:47 AM on December 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
To add, that this is an issue of the large century isn't a weird freak of history. It is a direct product of recorded media completely changing the economics of entertainment. It's not a free-floating ideological construct, it arises directly from the pertaining material conditions.
posted by howfar at 1:47 AM on December 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
It is a direct product of recorded media completely changing the economics of entertainment. It's not a free-floating ideological construct, it arises directly from the pertaining material conditions.
Wait, does that mean we can't just scream "Because Capitalism!" like we usually do? Becuase that's my favorite bit of online performance art.
posted by happyroach at 2:57 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Wait, does that mean we can't just scream "Because Capitalism!" like we usually do? Becuase that's my favorite bit of online performance art.
posted by happyroach at 2:57 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
It shocked me when I learned from friends who do improv that they're almost never paid. Not even a tip jar, or a share of the door or the bar.
I get that for many people it is essentially a hobby, like taking ballroom dance or rock climbing lessons, but the local rock climbing gym doesn't sell tickets and beer to spectators.
posted by smelendez at 4:07 AM on December 24, 2018 [13 favorites]
I get that for many people it is essentially a hobby, like taking ballroom dance or rock climbing lessons, but the local rock climbing gym doesn't sell tickets and beer to spectators.
posted by smelendez at 4:07 AM on December 24, 2018 [13 favorites]
I started improv about 3.5 years ago. It can be very fucking cult like. I've been more involved with the business end the past year due to forming a troupe and it has literally been soul sucking. I've started actively pulling back from it because the parts of it I love don't really have to do with being on stage or business stuff. I am super lucky in that regard because most improvisers want the stage time and will do it for free.
This ucb situation is basically everything I hate about improv because it's not unique to ucb at all.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 4:35 AM on December 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
This ucb situation is basically everything I hate about improv because it's not unique to ucb at all.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 4:35 AM on December 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
It shocked ME when I found out there was an eleventh Avenue! who knew?
posted by rikschell at 5:47 AM on December 24, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:47 AM on December 24, 2018 [15 favorites]
Absent some credible information that someone somewhere in the org is getting paid a bunch of money it just sounds like a non-viable business that isn't really a business. Just took them a while to figure that out. The move to the bigger stage was just the catalyst for that discovery. hard to blame anyone for that.
posted by JPD at 6:05 AM on December 24, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by JPD at 6:05 AM on December 24, 2018 [9 favorites]
I took classes at UCB back when it was just one theater under a grocery store, and I knew a few folks who started back when it was in a former porn theater and they used to get some very confused old men in the audience. It was never much of a business, but despite everything it did engender a real community. It’s been a place for lots of experimental theater, and I’ve been impressed with their ability to leverage their name to draw audiences to some seriously bonkers shows. Maybe they’ve got too many theaters now, but I hope they find away to provide a venue for experimental stuff outside of boom times.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 7:12 AM on December 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by GameDesignerBen at 7:12 AM on December 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
I took classes at UCB back when it was just one theater under a grocery store, and I knew a few folks who started back when it was in a former porn theater and they used to get some very confused old men in the audience.
Imagine the crushing disappointment when you think UCB stands for “Ultra-Chesty Babes” and you pay your money only to see a bunch of idiots do a 45 minute skit about Walt Whitman buying salad dressing.
posted by dr_dank at 7:50 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
Imagine the crushing disappointment when you think UCB stands for “Ultra-Chesty Babes” and you pay your money only to see a bunch of idiots do a 45 minute skit about Walt Whitman buying salad dressing.
posted by dr_dank at 7:50 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
It SHOULD be a viable business. They have the product and they have the demand. At the old theater there was always a line out the door. (I’m those days I was too shy to stand on the line so I always just left). It’s apparent that the owners either have no idea what they’re doing or one or more of them are just taking the money and feigning ignorance while letting the business collapse .
posted by bleep at 8:55 AM on December 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by bleep at 8:55 AM on December 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's no secret that Ian Roberts has a history of questionable practices with money.
I favorited that without even needing to check the link and I was right to do so!
I started improv about 3.5 years ago. It can be very fucking cult like.
Heh. About that...
[from Yes...And, Here We Are Twenty Years Later: Del Close and the Influence of Long Form Improvisation On Contemporary American Comedy]
I favorited that without even needing to check the link and I was right to do so!
I started improv about 3.5 years ago. It can be very fucking cult like.
Heh. About that...
[from Yes...And, Here We Are Twenty Years Later: Del Close and the Influence of Long Form Improvisation On Contemporary American Comedy]
Del attended Kansas State University of South Dakota and Iowa State. Del failed to graduate from either of these schools and instead chose to travel to Wichita in the early 1950s to meet L. Ron Hubbard, the popular science fiction writer of whom Del was a fan. Close was fond of telling people that he gave Hubbard the creative solution to his IRS problems by suggesting Hubbard form his own church...posted by Atom Eyes at 9:22 AM on December 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
UCB simply doesn't charge enough.
Its shows are way too cheap. Nobody's running a live comedy business charging less than $10 on a Friday night and no drink minimum.
It's classes are too cheap. I get that they don't feel cheap, but there's a reason why non-profit universities have to charge you pay $50,000+ in tuition a year to study drama in Manhattan.
posted by MattD at 11:43 AM on December 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
Its shows are way too cheap. Nobody's running a live comedy business charging less than $10 on a Friday night and no drink minimum.
It's classes are too cheap. I get that they don't feel cheap, but there's a reason why non-profit universities have to charge you pay $50,000+ in tuition a year to study drama in Manhattan.
posted by MattD at 11:43 AM on December 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
Do they still do the free Asssscat shows?
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:01 PM on December 24, 2018
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:01 PM on December 24, 2018
I have lots of thoughts on this:
(a) I used to attend a UCB-ish comedy school for improv, as the founder attended UCB. He has turned the business into a nonprofit and does pay the people who do shows on Friday and Saturday nights (other nights of the week are the training teams/practicing standups). So if you're trying to make a profit on this shit it might not work, but he seems to have been making it work for over ten years now. I wonder what he thinks of all of this. I wanted to keep doing improv, but the one issue there, as is probably true everywhere, is that there's plenty of wannabes and not enough Chosen Ones that are permitted to get onto training teams/be onstage. This is why I don't take classes there too often any more (maybe 1-2 one-off workshops a year) and I'm not really trying to get "in" any more because that's not going to happen. I wish I could, but I'm never going to be that good so I do my theater activities (not improv any more though) as strictly hobbies only without any hope of ever making a dime.
(b) I don't know much about the UCB4, but I can't say I am shocked to hear that none of them are/were all that interested in actually running a business. This is the huge problem with creative types.
1. You will not make any money on being a creative type UNLESS you get famous and people start throwing money at you.
2. That's pretty unlikely for most of us.
3. If you want a creative career, you may very well have to create it yourself and start your own business.
4. By virtue of being a creative person who is lopsided when it comes to multiple intelligences, a lot of creative people (and I would guess most of them) just simply aren't mentally equipped to be whizzes at business. Left brain/right brain, whatever, but I don't know too many creatives who are also rocking it at running their own business and good at both art and numbers. You have to be very, very good at something that is not your strong suit at all in order to do your strong suit.
5. Good luck finding someone else to do the business stuff for you, because I wish I could and almost everyone I know doesn't want to actually run a business. Even then you'd probably be easily scammed if you truly have no clue and someone decided to scam you because you were stupid with money.
I am not at all shocked that UCB doesn't pay people, because clearly they can't afford to do it and never could and never will be able to. Think of how many people they'd have to be paying, and how much is that going to cut into paying the rent. I think you most likely need to regard this sort of thing as an expensive hobby more than something that will lead you to quit your boring day job and get into comedy (disclaimer: that link limits your # of articles). But if you're doing UCB at some big celebrity city, you actually have some hopes which aren't totally nil that you might be noticed, so that hope might make it worth it to you to shell out $500 a pop per class. I do wonder how the folks I knew who moved to LA to go to UCB are doing these days.
That said, I can't help but think that the UCB4 could probably/possibly have more of a way to find someone to be their CFO or otherwise do the actual running of the business for them. I'm glad they're finally doing that, but they probably needed to do so earlier.
(c) Being creative isn't profitable most of the time. I say this as someone who gets told, sometimes multiple times a day, that I should run my own business. To which I say, who do you know who would pay a few hundred dollars for an original sweater of mine? I've taken a class on how to become a pattern designer and that pretty much sounded like the designer was paying others to do almost all of the work for her. Sure, I think it'd be great if my talents were profitable, but they are so clearly not and I can't conceive of who'd pay for anything I do. Normal people can't pay for my labor, and anyone who's been to a craft fair knows darned well that those who make the hats and scarves for $60 have everyone saying to them "I could get that for $5 at Wal-Mart."
Literally, the only option that works if you are not good at business and math is having a boring and/or crappy day job, because nobody wants to pay you for your art and art is the most easily expendable thing. Nobody needs your art, everyone needs someone to answer the phones. Sure, it kills your soul to not be able to do what you want all day and I am sad to say that the older you get, the worse that feeling is. But the Maslow pyramid, depressing as it is, is always right: I can't whine about my self-actualization at the top when trying to solve that kills my safety and security at the bottom.
So...I guess the UCB folks wanted to provide theaters for their sorts of people, which is admirable. It sounds like their Chelsea theater situation, while better for the business, was unsustainable. That said, a 15-year-lease for a location everyone hates and a lot of people won't schlep to also causes more problems than it might have solved. I guess none of them are good at business, but at this point they need to find people who are, and getting rid of the sales staff makes no sense in that regard. Not everyone is good at business and unfortunately, if they're not, the 4 need to become the chief creative directors or some such shit and get someone else to do it for them. It doesn't sound like planning ahead is their strong suit, nor is "having a vision" (gag me).
UCB’s owners do not recognize their employees as employees.
No, because they're volunteer hobbyists in reality. It's ridiculously hard to get paid to do what you love if it's expendable/not useful/entertainment. Realistically speaking, most of the time that is just not going to work. Nobody knows anything and nobody seems to know how to get that to work other than "get famous." People at UCB are hoping they get noticed and that's their only possible payout opportunity really, and that's why they're getting angry about Hell's Kitchen and that's legit. I think the idea of "the chance to become famous is your payment" is ridiculous, but if this is something you want to do, you have to look at it as a pricey hobby, not as your life, or your lifeblood, or your calling, or something you can do so you don't have to answer phones.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:37 PM on December 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
(a) I used to attend a UCB-ish comedy school for improv, as the founder attended UCB. He has turned the business into a nonprofit and does pay the people who do shows on Friday and Saturday nights (other nights of the week are the training teams/practicing standups). So if you're trying to make a profit on this shit it might not work, but he seems to have been making it work for over ten years now. I wonder what he thinks of all of this. I wanted to keep doing improv, but the one issue there, as is probably true everywhere, is that there's plenty of wannabes and not enough Chosen Ones that are permitted to get onto training teams/be onstage. This is why I don't take classes there too often any more (maybe 1-2 one-off workshops a year) and I'm not really trying to get "in" any more because that's not going to happen. I wish I could, but I'm never going to be that good so I do my theater activities (not improv any more though) as strictly hobbies only without any hope of ever making a dime.
(b) I don't know much about the UCB4, but I can't say I am shocked to hear that none of them are/were all that interested in actually running a business. This is the huge problem with creative types.
1. You will not make any money on being a creative type UNLESS you get famous and people start throwing money at you.
2. That's pretty unlikely for most of us.
3. If you want a creative career, you may very well have to create it yourself and start your own business.
4. By virtue of being a creative person who is lopsided when it comes to multiple intelligences, a lot of creative people (and I would guess most of them) just simply aren't mentally equipped to be whizzes at business. Left brain/right brain, whatever, but I don't know too many creatives who are also rocking it at running their own business and good at both art and numbers. You have to be very, very good at something that is not your strong suit at all in order to do your strong suit.
5. Good luck finding someone else to do the business stuff for you, because I wish I could and almost everyone I know doesn't want to actually run a business. Even then you'd probably be easily scammed if you truly have no clue and someone decided to scam you because you were stupid with money.
I am not at all shocked that UCB doesn't pay people, because clearly they can't afford to do it and never could and never will be able to. Think of how many people they'd have to be paying, and how much is that going to cut into paying the rent. I think you most likely need to regard this sort of thing as an expensive hobby more than something that will lead you to quit your boring day job and get into comedy (disclaimer: that link limits your # of articles). But if you're doing UCB at some big celebrity city, you actually have some hopes which aren't totally nil that you might be noticed, so that hope might make it worth it to you to shell out $500 a pop per class. I do wonder how the folks I knew who moved to LA to go to UCB are doing these days.
That said, I can't help but think that the UCB4 could probably/possibly have more of a way to find someone to be their CFO or otherwise do the actual running of the business for them. I'm glad they're finally doing that, but they probably needed to do so earlier.
(c) Being creative isn't profitable most of the time. I say this as someone who gets told, sometimes multiple times a day, that I should run my own business. To which I say, who do you know who would pay a few hundred dollars for an original sweater of mine? I've taken a class on how to become a pattern designer and that pretty much sounded like the designer was paying others to do almost all of the work for her. Sure, I think it'd be great if my talents were profitable, but they are so clearly not and I can't conceive of who'd pay for anything I do. Normal people can't pay for my labor, and anyone who's been to a craft fair knows darned well that those who make the hats and scarves for $60 have everyone saying to them "I could get that for $5 at Wal-Mart."
Literally, the only option that works if you are not good at business and math is having a boring and/or crappy day job, because nobody wants to pay you for your art and art is the most easily expendable thing. Nobody needs your art, everyone needs someone to answer the phones. Sure, it kills your soul to not be able to do what you want all day and I am sad to say that the older you get, the worse that feeling is. But the Maslow pyramid, depressing as it is, is always right: I can't whine about my self-actualization at the top when trying to solve that kills my safety and security at the bottom.
So...I guess the UCB folks wanted to provide theaters for their sorts of people, which is admirable. It sounds like their Chelsea theater situation, while better for the business, was unsustainable. That said, a 15-year-lease for a location everyone hates and a lot of people won't schlep to also causes more problems than it might have solved. I guess none of them are good at business, but at this point they need to find people who are, and getting rid of the sales staff makes no sense in that regard. Not everyone is good at business and unfortunately, if they're not, the 4 need to become the chief creative directors or some such shit and get someone else to do it for them. It doesn't sound like planning ahead is their strong suit, nor is "having a vision" (gag me).
UCB’s owners do not recognize their employees as employees.
No, because they're volunteer hobbyists in reality. It's ridiculously hard to get paid to do what you love if it's expendable/not useful/entertainment. Realistically speaking, most of the time that is just not going to work. Nobody knows anything and nobody seems to know how to get that to work other than "get famous." People at UCB are hoping they get noticed and that's their only possible payout opportunity really, and that's why they're getting angry about Hell's Kitchen and that's legit. I think the idea of "the chance to become famous is your payment" is ridiculous, but if this is something you want to do, you have to look at it as a pricey hobby, not as your life, or your lifeblood, or your calling, or something you can do so you don't have to answer phones.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:37 PM on December 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
I used to do improv at ImprovOoympic in Chicago (Charna Halpern and Del Close's place) when UCB was a troupe like any other doing shows in in upstairs theater. Started doing it on a whim, and never got paid, but I never paid for classes because I was willing to do lights and sound for shows. Didn't know it at the time, but looking back I guess I got a heck of a deal, considering I still use what I learned back then to pull 20-minute long lectures out of my ass when put on the spot in meetings, and I wouldn't have given up the after-midnight "1001" games for the world. The UCB crew were nice and talented folks back then, and it's a shame things are not going well.
posted by davejay at 11:48 PM on December 24, 2018
posted by davejay at 11:48 PM on December 24, 2018
As scams go, the live comedy drill of paying a little bit for classes and performing for free or nominal pay, hardly even ranks.
None of the owners / non-profit directors / senior coaches are getting rich. None of the students / performers are being impoverished or indebted. Compare it a 4th tier law school where the students give up three years of their lives and go $200k into debt so that scores of professors and senior administrators can earn six figure salaries.
I'd also say there really is a rainbow and there really is a pot of gold: there are lots of people who make great livings writing and performing for television and features and a heck of a lot of them have Second City, UCB or Groundlings on their resumes. Can't say that about the representation of 4th tier law school grads among Court of Appeals judges and major law firm partners.
posted by MattD at 7:56 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
None of the owners / non-profit directors / senior coaches are getting rich. None of the students / performers are being impoverished or indebted. Compare it a 4th tier law school where the students give up three years of their lives and go $200k into debt so that scores of professors and senior administrators can earn six figure salaries.
I'd also say there really is a rainbow and there really is a pot of gold: there are lots of people who make great livings writing and performing for television and features and a heck of a lot of them have Second City, UCB or Groundlings on their resumes. Can't say that about the representation of 4th tier law school grads among Court of Appeals judges and major law firm partners.
posted by MattD at 7:56 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
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posted by Space Coyote at 7:11 PM on December 23, 2018 [6 favorites]