Parents are not okay
August 25, 2021 2:30 AM Subscribe
"Through these grinding 18 months, we’ve managed our kids’ lives as best we could while abandoning our own. It was unsustainable then, it’s unsustainable now, and no matter what fresh hell this school year brings, it’ll still be unsustainable." [SLAtlantic]
> Florida has gone so far as to threaten administrators with fines and firings if they defy the mask ban, making it seem like some governors, legislators, and run-of-the-mill assholes just won’t quit until kids are stacked like cordwood.
I'm not a parent, but if there are two things the past 18 months have made plain it's the extent to which all of us are considered grist for the mill of capitalism by the powers that be, and the lengths to which millions of people will go to defend their right to be that grist.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:19 AM on August 25, 2021 [117 favorites]
I'm not a parent, but if there are two things the past 18 months have made plain it's the extent to which all of us are considered grist for the mill of capitalism by the powers that be, and the lengths to which millions of people will go to defend their right to be that grist.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:19 AM on August 25, 2021 [117 favorites]
I remember a point in my life where I thought people who wanted to home school their children were crazy extremists. Now I can't imagine wanting to do it any other way.
posted by doctor_negative at 4:11 AM on August 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 4:11 AM on August 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
It has been 531 days since the last time someone gave me their opinion about me not having kids.
posted by phunniemee at 4:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [154 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [154 favorites]
I don't get it. Republicans are literally doing the opposite of thinking of the children and they're doing it with impunity while (some) Democrats are "concerned" that spending lots of money on children and families might hurt their re-election prospects.
Everyone's always doing internal polling, right? Republicans wouldn't be doubling down on policies which literally endanger children if they had evidence that it would damage them, and those moderate Democrats wouldn't bewhining complaining about spending if they didn't have evidence that their voters would object to it.
Is someone bluffing, or is this one of those situations where everyone just keeps plodding along in complete confidence that they know their electorate until there's some kind of earthquake and political reality suddenly shifts overnight?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:25 AM on August 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
Everyone's always doing internal polling, right? Republicans wouldn't be doubling down on policies which literally endanger children if they had evidence that it would damage them, and those moderate Democrats wouldn't be
Is someone bluffing, or is this one of those situations where everyone just keeps plodding along in complete confidence that they know their electorate until there's some kind of earthquake and political reality suddenly shifts overnight?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:25 AM on August 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
What makes you think that Republicans' tearful pleas for "the children" were ever sincere in the first place?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:29 AM on August 25, 2021 [46 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:29 AM on August 25, 2021 [46 favorites]
Republican voters will oppose policies that help them if they would also help people who don't "deserve" help (ie POC), many Democratic voters are convinced centrism is The Way and loathe progressive policies, and elected officials of both parties don't have much to fear due to gerrymandering and a lack of alternatives to the two parties. Vote blue no matter who.
posted by Mavri at 5:35 AM on August 25, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 5:35 AM on August 25, 2021 [14 favorites]
moderate Democrats wouldn't be whining complaining about spending if they didn't have evidence that their voters would object to it
Democrats seem to set policy based on how they expect Republicans to smear them with it rather than the objective good it can do. Which is probably reasonable given how bad their messaging generally is and how badly media bothsidesism treats progressive policy.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:36 AM on August 25, 2021 [19 favorites]
Democrats seem to set policy based on how they expect Republicans to smear them with it rather than the objective good it can do. Which is probably reasonable given how bad their messaging generally is and how badly media bothsidesism treats progressive policy.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:36 AM on August 25, 2021 [19 favorites]
moderate Democrats wouldn't be whining complaining about spending if they didn't have evidence that their voters would object to it
Democrats seem to set policy based on how they expect Republicans to smear them with it rather than the objective good it can do.
Donors. Big, fat, “I like the IDEA of people-centered policies as long as the firms I invest in hit their profit targets” donors. That’s how we ended up with Joe Biden and Hilary before that. Safe, status quo capitalism-conservative Democrats.
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:43 AM on August 25, 2021 [13 favorites]
Democrats seem to set policy based on how they expect Republicans to smear them with it rather than the objective good it can do.
Donors. Big, fat, “I like the IDEA of people-centered policies as long as the firms I invest in hit their profit targets” donors. That’s how we ended up with Joe Biden and Hilary before that. Safe, status quo capitalism-conservative Democrats.
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:43 AM on August 25, 2021 [13 favorites]
Wow I teared up reading this which is not what I expected but I too am exhausted (and I'm fortunate in that my spouse, who is incredible in every possible way, has done the vast majority of pandemic-related childcare).
The thing is that, as the piece alludes to, we are being prevented from protecting our kids while being expected to carry on as normal, and if we DO protect our kids by, say, homeschooling or whatever, we're still expected to carry on as normal and that's simply not possible for a lot of us. My spouse and I both work full-time, our family needs us both to work full-time, and it's not realistic for us to do this with a five-year-old around all the time needing to be educated. I totally agree with this piece, I think parents (and other caregivers, and people who aren't caregivers) are exhausted and broken, and I also don't think that anything will change because "we", and by "we" I mean "not me and probably almost no one on this website", have decided that it's more important to keep the fucking economy going or whatever than protect anyone's physical, emotional, or mental health. I just think there's no plausible way we get relief unless society is dramatically restructured and I don't really think that's going to happen without an enormous fight and it's really hard to have the energy for that.
posted by an octopus IRL at 5:59 AM on August 25, 2021 [33 favorites]
The thing is that, as the piece alludes to, we are being prevented from protecting our kids while being expected to carry on as normal, and if we DO protect our kids by, say, homeschooling or whatever, we're still expected to carry on as normal and that's simply not possible for a lot of us. My spouse and I both work full-time, our family needs us both to work full-time, and it's not realistic for us to do this with a five-year-old around all the time needing to be educated. I totally agree with this piece, I think parents (and other caregivers, and people who aren't caregivers) are exhausted and broken, and I also don't think that anything will change because "we", and by "we" I mean "not me and probably almost no one on this website", have decided that it's more important to keep the fucking economy going or whatever than protect anyone's physical, emotional, or mental health. I just think there's no plausible way we get relief unless society is dramatically restructured and I don't really think that's going to happen without an enormous fight and it's really hard to have the energy for that.
posted by an octopus IRL at 5:59 AM on August 25, 2021 [33 favorites]
I have sympathy for the author — I’m a parent too and this has been the most difficult year of my life — but I have to push back on his conclusion. I’ve seen firsthand how the social isolation resulting from the pandemic has been lethal to many children.
The solution is not remote learning. The solution is communitywide mask and vaccine mandates to protect them until they can be vaccinated. Giving up on these and going straight to advocating for school closures is defeatist, counterproductive, and shifts the Overton window yet further away from sanity.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:59 AM on August 25, 2021 [49 favorites]
The solution is not remote learning. The solution is communitywide mask and vaccine mandates to protect them until they can be vaccinated. Giving up on these and going straight to advocating for school closures is defeatist, counterproductive, and shifts the Overton window yet further away from sanity.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:59 AM on August 25, 2021 [49 favorites]
(Full disclosure: I hate capitalism and think this is largely capitalism's fault -- obviously there are other factors and capitalism didn't cause the pandemic but it sure has hell has helped it continue and made it worse on both a national (I'm in the US) and global scale and it's also exacerbated pandemic-related misery like in my case needing to do, or appear to do, forty hours a week of work from home while caring for a child and being isolated and dealing with the attendant mental health issues, but God forbid we consider actually providing support for people who need it rather than grinding everyone into dust to prop up a system that lets rich people fly to almost-space or whatever damn fool project they're doing now).
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:03 AM on August 25, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 6:03 AM on August 25, 2021 [19 favorites]
Last year we kept the kids home and were part of a homeschooling pod, with most of the schooling done by a friend who is a Montessori trained early childhood educator. We were unbelievably lucky to have that option, a constellation of two parents who could work from home, one of whom was working part time, and happening to have just the right friend, and having space in our house to set up a classroom, and having the resources to make it work.
It was awful. Academically, the kids did fine- the kindergartner learned to read, the preschooler learned the alphabet and some addition, and everyone survived. Socially, they were restricted to people they had known literally their entire lives. There was no adult who hadn't changed their diapers, no child who hadn't met them in the first week after they were born. They were cooped up and antsy, we were exhausted from having to balance childcare and working, and everyone was entirely miserable basically all the time.
They're going back to school, with masks and required vaccinations for those who are eligible, because we live in a place where the people who decide that sort of thing are sane. Is it the right choice? I don't know. I do know that staying home for another year is not viable. We're broken now, and after another year, I don't know what would be left.
posted by Adridne at 6:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [18 favorites]
It was awful. Academically, the kids did fine- the kindergartner learned to read, the preschooler learned the alphabet and some addition, and everyone survived. Socially, they were restricted to people they had known literally their entire lives. There was no adult who hadn't changed their diapers, no child who hadn't met them in the first week after they were born. They were cooped up and antsy, we were exhausted from having to balance childcare and working, and everyone was entirely miserable basically all the time.
They're going back to school, with masks and required vaccinations for those who are eligible, because we live in a place where the people who decide that sort of thing are sane. Is it the right choice? I don't know. I do know that staying home for another year is not viable. We're broken now, and after another year, I don't know what would be left.
posted by Adridne at 6:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [18 favorites]
Sincere or not, “think of the children” framing is always deployed for conservative ends, to maintain the status quo and reject change. The GOP (and others) has their fingers in their ears WRT Covid and have used every trick in the book to convince themselves that some semblance of normalcy can be maintained, death be damned.
posted by wemayfreeze at 6:15 AM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 6:15 AM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
The solution is not remote learning.
Taking remote learning off the table entirely is a mistake. For now, classrooms are at full capacity, which makes social distancing impossible. There is no middle ground between all school or no school. Having hundreds of kids out with no remote option is bad. Having 35 kids in a classroom with poor ventilation is bad. Social isolation is bad. Having some kids in person and some remote seems better for everyone.
posted by Mavri at 6:16 AM on August 25, 2021 [25 favorites]
Taking remote learning off the table entirely is a mistake. For now, classrooms are at full capacity, which makes social distancing impossible. There is no middle ground between all school or no school. Having hundreds of kids out with no remote option is bad. Having 35 kids in a classroom with poor ventilation is bad. Social isolation is bad. Having some kids in person and some remote seems better for everyone.
posted by Mavri at 6:16 AM on August 25, 2021 [25 favorites]
Friends who are teachers have noticed that some kids have blossomed in remote learning, not having to put up with the social and drama related issues that are a traditional high school.
So there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to education.
posted by nickggully at 6:27 AM on August 25, 2021 [78 favorites]
So there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to education.
posted by nickggully at 6:27 AM on August 25, 2021 [78 favorites]
Yeah, I thought remote learning was a disaster for my son, but maybe it'd be a perfect fit for him in ten years. I don't think it's going to go away entirely in any event, just like telecommuting for grownup jobs isn't going away. We just don't know what it will look like in five years for either group, except it'll probably be better for the affluent and worse for the poor.
posted by skewed at 6:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by skewed at 6:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
What makes you think that Republicans' tearful pleas for "the children" were ever sincere in the first place?
Oh it is very sincere and extremely important... for "their" children - or children who match families in their specific demographic, some combination of; republican/conservative/right-wing and... income, region (rural vs urban vs suburban), race, religion, etc.
posted by rozcakj at 6:52 AM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh it is very sincere and extremely important... for "their" children - or children who match families in their specific demographic, some combination of; republican/conservative/right-wing and... income, region (rural vs urban vs suburban), race, religion, etc.
posted by rozcakj at 6:52 AM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I pretty much quit my job march 2020 so that I can do home preschool for my 4yo.
We have lived a highly isolated lifestyle. I understand that this is a highly privileged position that many cannot swing.
I had some thoughts to share, about how this kind of relative isolation is casually deemed impossible by many, yet was very common for lots of people for much of human history.
Main difference is I'm a man, and kiddo doesn't have several siblings. But even the kid's grandpa thought our isolation was weird, until he realized he didn't really know or see anyone outside of immediate family until he went to rural first grade in Nebraska.
But that's all the time I have to type on my phone while the kid brushes his teeth, so now I gotta go not participate in online discussions of pandemic much, as I have for the past 18 months, because I just don't have the time.
I guess my main point is that our notion of what's 'normal' for kids and families in 2010-2020 USA is actually really weird and an outlier.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:05 AM on August 25, 2021 [25 favorites]
We have lived a highly isolated lifestyle. I understand that this is a highly privileged position that many cannot swing.
I had some thoughts to share, about how this kind of relative isolation is casually deemed impossible by many, yet was very common for lots of people for much of human history.
Main difference is I'm a man, and kiddo doesn't have several siblings. But even the kid's grandpa thought our isolation was weird, until he realized he didn't really know or see anyone outside of immediate family until he went to rural first grade in Nebraska.
But that's all the time I have to type on my phone while the kid brushes his teeth, so now I gotta go not participate in online discussions of pandemic much, as I have for the past 18 months, because I just don't have the time.
I guess my main point is that our notion of what's 'normal' for kids and families in 2010-2020 USA is actually really weird and an outlier.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:05 AM on August 25, 2021 [25 favorites]
I'm glad we established that the true villains of the pandemic are democrats, and in only 10 comments.
Please don’t do that. The reductio ad absurdum coupled with internet-pithy snark doesn’t help to engage conversation nor point out possibly unintended readings of internety comments that might not have been intended by the original authors. None of the three original comments included in my post (mine inclusive) “blamed the pandemic” on Democrats. I am being as gentle as I can this morning, but I really am incensed that you would attribute an utterly absurdist position to 10(!!) fellow MeFiers.
For me, I was commenting on my beliefs as to why pandemic-related policy decisions by elected Democrats have been so disappointing to many people; tying those decisions back to who got the Democratic nominations, and what I felt was a main reason FOR those particular nominations, and implying that the underlying cause *for this effect* were people and a system that conflates a monetary system with social strength.
But again - please think about how and if pith adds to or encourages conversation between a diverse group of people who all actually care deeply about this.
posted by Silvery Fish at 7:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
Please don’t do that. The reductio ad absurdum coupled with internet-pithy snark doesn’t help to engage conversation nor point out possibly unintended readings of internety comments that might not have been intended by the original authors. None of the three original comments included in my post (mine inclusive) “blamed the pandemic” on Democrats. I am being as gentle as I can this morning, but I really am incensed that you would attribute an utterly absurdist position to 10(!!) fellow MeFiers.
For me, I was commenting on my beliefs as to why pandemic-related policy decisions by elected Democrats have been so disappointing to many people; tying those decisions back to who got the Democratic nominations, and what I felt was a main reason FOR those particular nominations, and implying that the underlying cause *for this effect* were people and a system that conflates a monetary system with social strength.
But again - please think about how and if pith adds to or encourages conversation between a diverse group of people who all actually care deeply about this.
posted by Silvery Fish at 7:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
Conservatives live in a different news/media universe and have nothing to fear from directly contradicting clear direction on safety from the medical establishment. Their believers do not receive this information and will reject it if they come across it accidently or are confronted with it by people outside of their bubble. Furthermore, when the harsh consequences of having disregarded this advice inevitably come in, they will not be reported on within this bubble and/or will be drowned out by manufactured outrage about some total fucking nonsense.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:20 AM on August 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:20 AM on August 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
I work in healthcare admin here in Canada and yesterday I was making calls to book patients who will be 12 this year for their first vaccine. My success rate was 50/50. Lots of relieved parents, but also a lot of parents who were like "absolutely not." To my knowledge, our school board is requiring masks, not vaccinations at the moment, so we'll see how it shakes out. (They also give the option for remote learning for kids.)
posted by Kitteh at 7:21 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:21 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
One of my hobbies these days is, when someone on FB starts in with that "masks are unsanitary /keep you from getting oxygen/don't block viruses" nonsense is to do an Google search "surgeons" and simply link that. Because they are one and all wearing masks.
I do not know how this particular bullshit point has survived in the wild more than eight to ten seconds.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:24 AM on August 25, 2021 [31 favorites]
I do not know how this particular bullshit point has survived in the wild more than eight to ten seconds.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:24 AM on August 25, 2021 [31 favorites]
So there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to education.
I think the same can be said of "what parents are going through now." I'm glad people are chronicling this feeling. I think it would be nice to see a really wide variety. Here's one from David Perry that resonated with me, and here's one from Lucy McBride that got my back up but she makes some fair points. I'd be curious if anyone's seen perspectives from people other than white writers.
The part of the linked article that really resonates, and is a through line in the other two pieces I linked above as well, is the feeling of exhaustion. I just want to be able to plan. I'm not as convinced as Sinker seems to be that remote learning is the best solution in front of us, though it was good for my particular kid, while it lasted. I don't think we can ignore the large group of kids for whom it seems it really didn't do what it needed to do.
Having some kids in person and some remote seems better for everyone.
It isn't really, though. Then you've either doubled the work on the plate of individual teachers, or you've doubled the budget for teacher salaries. Teaching is already one of those careers where practitioners are at high risk of burnout.
I think the fundamental problem here (and I guess my objection above is built on this problem) is an unwillingness to commit more serious public resources to kids during the pandemic. I don't think we'd be in this pickle if education were the priority in practice that it is on paper. Upgrading ventilation is a thing we could have done, and it's a thing some schools did do. I wonder whether getting kids vaccinated is also a thing we could have done. The AAP petitioned the FDA for it some weeks back, to no avail, it seems. Maintaining NPIs in broader society to keep rates down and protect the kids and the schools is a third thing we could have done. But as we saw in arguments here, that was a losing battle.
posted by eirias at 7:25 AM on August 25, 2021 [14 favorites]
I think the same can be said of "what parents are going through now." I'm glad people are chronicling this feeling. I think it would be nice to see a really wide variety. Here's one from David Perry that resonated with me, and here's one from Lucy McBride that got my back up but she makes some fair points. I'd be curious if anyone's seen perspectives from people other than white writers.
The part of the linked article that really resonates, and is a through line in the other two pieces I linked above as well, is the feeling of exhaustion. I just want to be able to plan. I'm not as convinced as Sinker seems to be that remote learning is the best solution in front of us, though it was good for my particular kid, while it lasted. I don't think we can ignore the large group of kids for whom it seems it really didn't do what it needed to do.
Having some kids in person and some remote seems better for everyone.
It isn't really, though. Then you've either doubled the work on the plate of individual teachers, or you've doubled the budget for teacher salaries. Teaching is already one of those careers where practitioners are at high risk of burnout.
I think the fundamental problem here (and I guess my objection above is built on this problem) is an unwillingness to commit more serious public resources to kids during the pandemic. I don't think we'd be in this pickle if education were the priority in practice that it is on paper. Upgrading ventilation is a thing we could have done, and it's a thing some schools did do. I wonder whether getting kids vaccinated is also a thing we could have done. The AAP petitioned the FDA for it some weeks back, to no avail, it seems. Maintaining NPIs in broader society to keep rates down and protect the kids and the schools is a third thing we could have done. But as we saw in arguments here, that was a losing battle.
posted by eirias at 7:25 AM on August 25, 2021 [14 favorites]
It isn't really, though. Then you've either doubled the work on the plate of individual teachers, or you've doubled the budget for teacher salaries. Teaching is already one of those careers where practitioners are at high risk of burnout.
My partner works in higher ed and he had to deal with the conception that remote learning was easier, and easy to pivot to when all this started going down. I learned from him that it was incredibly hard to switch to remote learning in a short timeframe for students to finish and even start a school year. There are a lot of moving parts I would have never thought of, and folks saying that teachers were lazy and overpaid during remote learning doesn't match with what I've learned from teachers during this time.
posted by Kitteh at 7:30 AM on August 25, 2021 [23 favorites]
My partner works in higher ed and he had to deal with the conception that remote learning was easier, and easy to pivot to when all this started going down. I learned from him that it was incredibly hard to switch to remote learning in a short timeframe for students to finish and even start a school year. There are a lot of moving parts I would have never thought of, and folks saying that teachers were lazy and overpaid during remote learning doesn't match with what I've learned from teachers during this time.
posted by Kitteh at 7:30 AM on August 25, 2021 [23 favorites]
This article has been circulating in our circle of parents of classmates, to universal "This -- oh so much THIS" reactions.
The solution is not remote learning. The solution is communitywide mask and vaccine mandates to protect them until they can be vaccinated.
Almost. The second part, yes -- oh so much YES. But for districts that have stuffed classrooms and cannot afford to upgrade ventilation, the option of remote learning is essential.
posted by Quasirandom at 7:31 AM on August 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
The solution is not remote learning. The solution is communitywide mask and vaccine mandates to protect them until they can be vaccinated.
Almost. The second part, yes -- oh so much YES. But for districts that have stuffed classrooms and cannot afford to upgrade ventilation, the option of remote learning is essential.
posted by Quasirandom at 7:31 AM on August 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Republicans wouldn't be doubling down on policies which literally endanger children if they had evidence that it would damage them...
SomethingSomethingWrapped In the Flag and Carrying a BiibleSomethingSomething
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on August 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
SomethingSomethingWrapped In the Flag and Carrying a BiibleSomethingSomething
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on August 25, 2021 [5 favorites]
It isn't really, though. Then you've either doubled the work on the plate of individual teachers, or you've doubled the budget for teacher salaries.
I don't see why that would be. If there's not enough students to fill a class in a particular school, remote learning can be done on a county or citywide basis. That wouldn't need to have an effect on the number of teachers or the student/teacher ratios. It could be implemented well or poorly, but wouldn't necessarily mean more teachers or extra work for a particular teacher. I know that some teachers got swamped during the ad-hoc remote learning of last fall, and some more will probably have to suffer through that again. But that's an argument against making it up as we go along, not remote learning.
posted by skewed at 7:35 AM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't see why that would be. If there's not enough students to fill a class in a particular school, remote learning can be done on a county or citywide basis. That wouldn't need to have an effect on the number of teachers or the student/teacher ratios. It could be implemented well or poorly, but wouldn't necessarily mean more teachers or extra work for a particular teacher. I know that some teachers got swamped during the ad-hoc remote learning of last fall, and some more will probably have to suffer through that again. But that's an argument against making it up as we go along, not remote learning.
posted by skewed at 7:35 AM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
NOTE: I am a parent!
While the article does hit the nail on the head regarding how downright ludicrous it is that 'the powers that be' have determined that it is perfectly OK to send children into an environment where transmission of all sorts of nasties is a given, the level of hyperbole demonstrated leaves me shaking my head. The lack of resilience demonstrated given the rapid social change the virus has brought upon us. At the same time the last 20 years has seen 40% of the economic growth funneled directly to the 1%, most Millennials have been raised on the 'everyone gets a reward' mentality, and the teaching of coping skills has been thrown out of the window. So it is not at all surprising that people feel ill prepared to cope and out of control given the levels of uncertainty both socially and economically.
Economically everyone was expecting things to be good and people have been raised in the belief that if you try hard you will succeed. However, the idea of a meritocracy does not sit well with capitalism which works on the person with the biggest pile doing everything they can to keep that big pile. Structuring tax laws and corporate rules to ensure this is the case. A simple look at directors pay as a percentage compared to workers pay. See here.
It is very clear that ALL world leaders were VERY ill-prepared to deal with a pandemic of this nature and the missteps and poor responses resulting in needless deaths is a moral crime to society. The FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) factor has fed conspiracy theorists with fuel to add into the mix. Equally, they are now giving in to the pressure of capitalism to get things 'back to normal'. All to ensure that the bottom line of company profits does not suffer. Imagine also if the BIG ONE (San Andreas fault) were to hit California. Would the same level of demonstrated incompetence be brought into play then? If so, I suggest moving...
The lack of proper AFFORDABLE child care highlights one social disparity where some of societies key workers (i.e. women) are disadvantaged both in terms of pay and almost punished for having children. "Oh, you need to work for less pay than a male and you need to use a huge chunk of your pay on child day care so that you can turn up on time".
As of today, the number of people in ICUs due to Covid is the highest it has been ever. Some 25,000 people. delta variant spikes indicate we are now entering another highly infectious period yet, as the writer indicates "we [are] right back in the same nightmare we’d been living in for 18 months".
You as a parent KNOW this is NOT good. You as a parent are now faced with a dilemma. You KNOW your children will be a vector for transmission which they will most likely bring back into the home. To use that old slogan re drug use, "Just say NO!". Hold back your children from school attendance and relish in the knowledge that you as a parent are doing the best for your children and for everyone's safety. Yes it will be tough but at least you have the confidence in knowing your actions will be beneficial.
For now all I am seeing is a rapid rise in infections among children and the transmission rates going through the roof. Additionally the 'Oh, we were not expecting that." statements will follow. I shake my head in disbelief.
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 7:37 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
While the article does hit the nail on the head regarding how downright ludicrous it is that 'the powers that be' have determined that it is perfectly OK to send children into an environment where transmission of all sorts of nasties is a given, the level of hyperbole demonstrated leaves me shaking my head. The lack of resilience demonstrated given the rapid social change the virus has brought upon us. At the same time the last 20 years has seen 40% of the economic growth funneled directly to the 1%, most Millennials have been raised on the 'everyone gets a reward' mentality, and the teaching of coping skills has been thrown out of the window. So it is not at all surprising that people feel ill prepared to cope and out of control given the levels of uncertainty both socially and economically.
Economically everyone was expecting things to be good and people have been raised in the belief that if you try hard you will succeed. However, the idea of a meritocracy does not sit well with capitalism which works on the person with the biggest pile doing everything they can to keep that big pile. Structuring tax laws and corporate rules to ensure this is the case. A simple look at directors pay as a percentage compared to workers pay. See here.
It is very clear that ALL world leaders were VERY ill-prepared to deal with a pandemic of this nature and the missteps and poor responses resulting in needless deaths is a moral crime to society. The FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) factor has fed conspiracy theorists with fuel to add into the mix. Equally, they are now giving in to the pressure of capitalism to get things 'back to normal'. All to ensure that the bottom line of company profits does not suffer. Imagine also if the BIG ONE (San Andreas fault) were to hit California. Would the same level of demonstrated incompetence be brought into play then? If so, I suggest moving...
The lack of proper AFFORDABLE child care highlights one social disparity where some of societies key workers (i.e. women) are disadvantaged both in terms of pay and almost punished for having children. "Oh, you need to work for less pay than a male and you need to use a huge chunk of your pay on child day care so that you can turn up on time".
As of today, the number of people in ICUs due to Covid is the highest it has been ever. Some 25,000 people. delta variant spikes indicate we are now entering another highly infectious period yet, as the writer indicates "we [are] right back in the same nightmare we’d been living in for 18 months".
You as a parent KNOW this is NOT good. You as a parent are now faced with a dilemma. You KNOW your children will be a vector for transmission which they will most likely bring back into the home. To use that old slogan re drug use, "Just say NO!". Hold back your children from school attendance and relish in the knowledge that you as a parent are doing the best for your children and for everyone's safety. Yes it will be tough but at least you have the confidence in knowing your actions will be beneficial.
For now all I am seeing is a rapid rise in infections among children and the transmission rates going through the roof. Additionally the 'Oh, we were not expecting that." statements will follow. I shake my head in disbelief.
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 7:37 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
My second grader is so, so excited to go back to school this year. Our district had announced a “strongly recommended, but not required” masking policy for the year (ie, worse than worthless) that they knew would be overridden by the new Governor (NY). So at least that is settled. I hope.
But the mitigation that was part of our success last year (our class was quarantined once, which… sounds bad but actually was pretty good, all considered) — distancing, isolated cohorts, open windows — is likely to be abandoned this year. Combined with parents who obviously don’t give a flying fuck (another exhausting part of the last six months has been helping a seven-year-old understand why some other kids’ birthday parties or sleepovers or whatever were off limits), I don’t expect such good results in the coming month or three.
Vaccine approval for under-12s is the light at the end of the tunnel that doesn’t seem to be getting any closer and it’s really, really frustrating right now and yeah, I’m at the end of my rope about legislators and administrators mostly unwilling to do the right thing for kids and instead bowing to the fucking loudmouth morons who would probably stop washing their hands if the CDC reminded them about hygiene. So many people seem to be explicitly working against doing anything to help kids and parents here.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:38 AM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
But the mitigation that was part of our success last year (our class was quarantined once, which… sounds bad but actually was pretty good, all considered) — distancing, isolated cohorts, open windows — is likely to be abandoned this year. Combined with parents who obviously don’t give a flying fuck (another exhausting part of the last six months has been helping a seven-year-old understand why some other kids’ birthday parties or sleepovers or whatever were off limits), I don’t expect such good results in the coming month or three.
Vaccine approval for under-12s is the light at the end of the tunnel that doesn’t seem to be getting any closer and it’s really, really frustrating right now and yeah, I’m at the end of my rope about legislators and administrators mostly unwilling to do the right thing for kids and instead bowing to the fucking loudmouth morons who would probably stop washing their hands if the CDC reminded them about hygiene. So many people seem to be explicitly working against doing anything to help kids and parents here.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:38 AM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
the past 18 months have made plain it's the extent to which all of us are considered grist for the mill of capitalism....and the lengths to which millions of people will go to defend their right to be that grist.
And to me as that grist. And to thee.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
And to me as that grist. And to thee.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's an FPP that's explicitly about the global phenomenon of parenting during the pandemic, and posts 5 through 9 were all explicitly about U.S. electoral politics, I think some pushback was called for.
I assume people are speaking to their immediate experience; their immediate concerns; and possibly reflective of who they *believed* would help them but have let them down.
If the intent was to redirect individuals to move out of their hyper-local thoughts and concerns, there are still many better ways to do so.
posted by Silvery Fish at 7:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
I assume people are speaking to their immediate experience; their immediate concerns; and possibly reflective of who they *believed* would help them but have let them down.
If the intent was to redirect individuals to move out of their hyper-local thoughts and concerns, there are still many better ways to do so.
posted by Silvery Fish at 7:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's an FPP that's explicitly about the global phenomenon of parenting during the pandemic, and posts 5 through 9 were all explicitly about U.S. electoral politics, I think some pushback was called for.
Is that what the FPP is about? All the content in the article is about experiences in the US, what American legislators are doing, etc.
This Unesco data shows that the US has lost 43 weeks of education due to Covid. I don't anywhere in Europe has lost that much. Even the UK and Italy lost only 26 and 30 weeks, Germany 24 and France only 10! I don't know if that is artificially inflating the US number by counting one week for any time when any part of the US had schools closed, even if no individual area had a closure that year but it is a striking difference.
I have observed that school closure and opening at no point became party political in the UK nor did it in The Netherlands. That doesn't mean there wasn't spirited disagreement about the harm done to kids of not attending school, the effectiveness and equitability of remote learning options and other factors vs the potential risk of children getting Covid and the epidemiological consequences of children spreading the virus but it does mean that the kind of polarisation discussed in the article is completely alien to me and so, no, I don't think this is about the global phenomenon.
posted by atrazine at 7:43 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
Is that what the FPP is about? All the content in the article is about experiences in the US, what American legislators are doing, etc.
This Unesco data shows that the US has lost 43 weeks of education due to Covid. I don't anywhere in Europe has lost that much. Even the UK and Italy lost only 26 and 30 weeks, Germany 24 and France only 10! I don't know if that is artificially inflating the US number by counting one week for any time when any part of the US had schools closed, even if no individual area had a closure that year but it is a striking difference.
I have observed that school closure and opening at no point became party political in the UK nor did it in The Netherlands. That doesn't mean there wasn't spirited disagreement about the harm done to kids of not attending school, the effectiveness and equitability of remote learning options and other factors vs the potential risk of children getting Covid and the epidemiological consequences of children spreading the virus but it does mean that the kind of polarisation discussed in the article is completely alien to me and so, no, I don't think this is about the global phenomenon.
posted by atrazine at 7:43 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
I do not know how this particular bullshit point has survived in the wild more than eight to ten seconds.
The same way all of the other questionable information does. People are scared right down to their bones that something they can’t see or touch will kill them. In their terror they will seize on anything that gives them a sense of control in the situation, whether that be obsessively spouting Covid statistics they aren’t qualified to understand or claiming access to secret knowledge that "they" won’t tell you.
We have received one of our periodic warnings that the Earth could kill our entire species by accident and everyone is working hard at every level to preserve some sense of agency.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:46 AM on August 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
The same way all of the other questionable information does. People are scared right down to their bones that something they can’t see or touch will kill them. In their terror they will seize on anything that gives them a sense of control in the situation, whether that be obsessively spouting Covid statistics they aren’t qualified to understand or claiming access to secret knowledge that "they" won’t tell you.
We have received one of our periodic warnings that the Earth could kill our entire species by accident and everyone is working hard at every level to preserve some sense of agency.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:46 AM on August 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's an FPP that's explicitly about the global phenomenon of parenting during the pandemic, and posts 5 through 9 were all explicitly about U.S. electoral politics, I think some pushback was called for.
The abject failure of political leaders of all stripes to support their constituents during a global pandemic is absolutely relevant to the article.
It isn't really, though. Then you've either doubled the work on the plate of individual teachers, or you've doubled the budget for teacher salaries.
This is how it would work, but it's not how it has to work. I realize that everyone is slogging along in their own struggles, but I do not believe that people are incapable of coming up with better solutions than we have. I think this is probably why RonButNotStupid asked why this is happening. Why is this happening? I'm sorry that discussion upset people, but if we don't ask that question, what are we even doing?
posted by Mavri at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
The abject failure of political leaders of all stripes to support their constituents during a global pandemic is absolutely relevant to the article.
It isn't really, though. Then you've either doubled the work on the plate of individual teachers, or you've doubled the budget for teacher salaries.
This is how it would work, but it's not how it has to work. I realize that everyone is slogging along in their own struggles, but I do not believe that people are incapable of coming up with better solutions than we have. I think this is probably why RonButNotStupid asked why this is happening. Why is this happening? I'm sorry that discussion upset people, but if we don't ask that question, what are we even doing?
posted by Mavri at 7:51 AM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
everyone is working hard at every level to preserve some sense of agency.
You are walking through the forest and hear the sound of a raging river. Coming upon that river, you see a man holding on to a rock in the water. He is being slammed repeatedly against the rock by wave after wave, barely able to hold his head above water.
You shout to him "let go of the rock, it's killing you!"
He screams back "I can't, I'm afraid of what's downstream!"
posted by aramaic at 7:52 AM on August 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
You are walking through the forest and hear the sound of a raging river. Coming upon that river, you see a man holding on to a rock in the water. He is being slammed repeatedly against the rock by wave after wave, barely able to hold his head above water.
You shout to him "let go of the rock, it's killing you!"
He screams back "I can't, I'm afraid of what's downstream!"
posted by aramaic at 7:52 AM on August 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
or now, classrooms are at full capacity, which makes social distancing impossible. There is no middle ground between all school or no school. Having hundreds of kids out with no remote option is bad. Having 35 kids in a classroom with poor ventilation is bad. Social isolation is bad.
Upgrade ventilation, add covered space for outdoor classrooms, start school when the weather is appropriate for indoor/outdoor learning - there are things that could have been done but they cost money and just weren't.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
Upgrade ventilation, add covered space for outdoor classrooms, start school when the weather is appropriate for indoor/outdoor learning - there are things that could have been done but they cost money and just weren't.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
I have observed that school closure and opening at no point became party political in the UK
Not really to your point, but it's worth remembering that at no point were schools in the UK entirely closed. Most stayed open for in-person teaching for keyworkers' families, and most also took in kids with all kinds of special circumstances. But all of them were open in the sense that they were providing online education.
My kid's school was open for both in-person and online teaching (supplemented with phone-ins particularly in the early days before they got up and running with Google Classroom), and in addition they were providing daily printouts of exercises for kids whose Internet access consisted of a shared family phone.
Teachers were effectively running three schools in one.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 8:12 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
Not really to your point, but it's worth remembering that at no point were schools in the UK entirely closed. Most stayed open for in-person teaching for keyworkers' families, and most also took in kids with all kinds of special circumstances. But all of them were open in the sense that they were providing online education.
My kid's school was open for both in-person and online teaching (supplemented with phone-ins particularly in the early days before they got up and running with Google Classroom), and in addition they were providing daily printouts of exercises for kids whose Internet access consisted of a shared family phone.
Teachers were effectively running three schools in one.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 8:12 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
We’re really not okay. If there’s one thing I know for sure, it’s not to discuss parenting on mefi.
posted by areaperson at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by areaperson at 8:22 AM on August 25, 2021 [11 favorites]
TellMeNoLies: "obsessively spouting Covid statistics they aren’t qualified to understand"
All of the relevant information can be found in an easily understandable form, regardless of qualifications, both here (in particular the County view pertinent to where you are) and here. The latter link is from the International Society For Infectious Diseases and reports the facts with no political agenda at all. They were the first organization to report Covid.
Here at IndelibleUnderpants central we are doubling down on our social distancing and have taken the very costly decision to not send any children to school. It is patently obvious with all of the data provided that we are standing in front of a giant fan towards which huge piles of excrement are currently flying. We intend to step out of its path despite the huge impact it will have on us. Put simply we do not want to be dead or disabled by a virus which could be relatively easy contained were the initial rules of mask/isolate/social distance put in force for an extended period. The lack of political will to do this is apparent across many countries. The lack of individuals ability to recognize the severity of the pandemic and its future implications to individuals and society in general are unbelievable. One of the most egregious comments I saw at a Town Hall meeting where anti-maskers/vaccinations were demonstrating such a point by shouting down any sensible discussion was a woman issuing the statement "If God had intended us to wear masks he would have made us with masks". This from an individual wearing clothes, jewelry, and eye glasses. The movie "Idiocracy' seems so relevant...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:23 AM on August 25, 2021 [15 favorites]
All of the relevant information can be found in an easily understandable form, regardless of qualifications, both here (in particular the County view pertinent to where you are) and here. The latter link is from the International Society For Infectious Diseases and reports the facts with no political agenda at all. They were the first organization to report Covid.
Here at IndelibleUnderpants central we are doubling down on our social distancing and have taken the very costly decision to not send any children to school. It is patently obvious with all of the data provided that we are standing in front of a giant fan towards which huge piles of excrement are currently flying. We intend to step out of its path despite the huge impact it will have on us. Put simply we do not want to be dead or disabled by a virus which could be relatively easy contained were the initial rules of mask/isolate/social distance put in force for an extended period. The lack of political will to do this is apparent across many countries. The lack of individuals ability to recognize the severity of the pandemic and its future implications to individuals and society in general are unbelievable. One of the most egregious comments I saw at a Town Hall meeting where anti-maskers/vaccinations were demonstrating such a point by shouting down any sensible discussion was a woman issuing the statement "If God had intended us to wear masks he would have made us with masks". This from an individual wearing clothes, jewelry, and eye glasses. The movie "Idiocracy' seems so relevant...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:23 AM on August 25, 2021 [15 favorites]
I received a text from my ex-wife that my son was sent home from school yesterday for having a sore throat and a cough. It's most likely a cold. However, all 3 of us now have to take a COVID test. If he passes his, he goes right back to school.
The school emailed a notice yesterday about how "only 1.15%" of students have tested positive for COVID as of August 23.
They are, however mandating masks and distancing, for what it's worth.
Ugh.
posted by Fleebnork at 8:30 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The school emailed a notice yesterday about how "only 1.15%" of students have tested positive for COVID as of August 23.
They are, however mandating masks and distancing, for what it's worth.
Ugh.
posted by Fleebnork at 8:30 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The same way all of the other questionable information does. People are scared right down to their bones that something they can’t see or touch will kill them. In their terror they will seize on anything that gives them a sense of control in the situation, whether that be obsessively spouting Covid statistics they aren’t qualified to understand or claiming access to secret knowledge that "they" won’t tell you
No. This is wrong. They are legitimately experiencing it differently, and for many COVID is not particularly personally scary, and they don't have empathy for those who are at the front lines dealing with it. The COVID stats they shout are their interpretation of it is as correct from their personal viewpoint. Again, like a distant war.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:30 AM on August 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
No. This is wrong. They are legitimately experiencing it differently, and for many COVID is not particularly personally scary, and they don't have empathy for those who are at the front lines dealing with it. The COVID stats they shout are their interpretation of it is as correct from their personal viewpoint. Again, like a distant war.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:30 AM on August 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
Accurate Covid Information - easy to understand
The NY Times has you covered... here.
Covid Cases ... here.
Vaccination Data... here.
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:37 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The NY Times has you covered... here.
Covid Cases ... here.
Vaccination Data... here.
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 8:37 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Saw my 5 year old off to the bus this morning. School is running masks on all indoor humans. I couldn't have kept her home another month. We gave her a great summer. Closed out the amusement park 3 times, lakeside beaches and just yesterday the public pool on near the last day it was open. Sent her off with a mask and hope.
I'm in a pretty big county. I'm watching the numbers. Yesterday 250 some new cases, 21 of which were ages 5-12. That number is going to go up.
posted by Catblack at 8:54 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm in a pretty big county. I'm watching the numbers. Yesterday 250 some new cases, 21 of which were ages 5-12. That number is going to go up.
posted by Catblack at 8:54 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
The_Vegetables - "for many COVID is not particularly personally scary". This is at odds with what I am experiencing among the diverse people I communicate with. I have just seen pictures of our local schools where children are back at school with zero mask mandate and only one teacher can be seen wearing a mask. This is utter madness and I expect Covid cases to skyrocket in the coming weeks. Junior IndelibleUnderpants are not among the throngs crowding the hallways and classrooms.
Everyone SHOULD be VERY afraid and be taking appropriate action to protect themselves and their families. Have you not noticed Florida and Texas statistics re Covid?
Here is an interesting analogy presented to me recently: If someone was walking around in a public place carrying a weapon on open display you might express some form of alarm and take action to leave the area. If someone is walking around without a mask in a public place where there are lots of people what should you do?
NOTE: If you watch someone vaping outdoors and watch the trail of vapor you get an idea of how someones breath can hang in the air. Indoors? Draw your own conclusions...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 9:09 AM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Everyone SHOULD be VERY afraid and be taking appropriate action to protect themselves and their families. Have you not noticed Florida and Texas statistics re Covid?
Here is an interesting analogy presented to me recently: If someone was walking around in a public place carrying a weapon on open display you might express some form of alarm and take action to leave the area. If someone is walking around without a mask in a public place where there are lots of people what should you do?
NOTE: If you watch someone vaping outdoors and watch the trail of vapor you get an idea of how someones breath can hang in the air. Indoors? Draw your own conclusions...
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 9:09 AM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ontario publishes its Covid cases daily with unvaccinated and vaccinated cases. What they haven't been sharing so easily (but if you delve into the .xls files on the site you can uncover) is that 19% (last time I checked a few days ago) of recent cases are not just in unvaccinated people but unvaccinated children.
That's before schools open here, and during summer when a lot of playdates and activities are taking place outdoors.
No politician is going to highlight that. Especially in Ontario where every time a dollar is spent on education a Conservative weeps.
As for my experience: Initially virtual school, because it was asynchronous, was fine. My high school student did great in virtual school all through. The synchronous virtual school, where my child had to sit in front of Google Meet all day, was a shitshow of a disaster. And it wasn't his teachers. His teachers were thoughtful and warm and caring. But they spent a minimum of 30 minutes a day asking kids to turn on their cameras, troubleshooting, admiring cats, etc. Another hour or two was incredibly boring. I get Zoom fatigue. It's not the same as being present in a space. The kids can't see each other working, which for my kid is really important. My kids both learned how to 'cheat' using Google Docs/Slides and their quality of work, especially my grade 4 kid, slid.
And I ran out of patience. I was working and going to school myself, the latter having been maybe a bad choice, but had it been like the first lockdown, we would have found a way to take the assignments and make them fun and do okay.
But what I could not bring myself to do was to sit there and make sure my child was watching the screen all day long...partly because after 10 minutes of "Sahar, please turn your camera on. Sahar, can you hear me?" I wanted to tear my hair out. And THEN it was really hard to make him do assignments because I'd watched him try. so. hard. all. day. to pay attention. And then he missed a lot of information because who doesn't zone out? Ugh. It was dreadful. I feel like in summer 2020 there could have been development of really interesting and engaging bits of curriculum -- get tech and animation companies involved - but of course no political will.
Anyways we won't make it through more virtual school. I picked in person but if cases go badly, I'll take a leave of absence and do real homeschool (I deliberately backed myself into a corner this way.)
Am I okay? Well I think I'm more okay than my youngest unvaccinated kind of depressed little guy. But I'm exhausted and furious and scared too.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [13 favorites]
That's before schools open here, and during summer when a lot of playdates and activities are taking place outdoors.
No politician is going to highlight that. Especially in Ontario where every time a dollar is spent on education a Conservative weeps.
As for my experience: Initially virtual school, because it was asynchronous, was fine. My high school student did great in virtual school all through. The synchronous virtual school, where my child had to sit in front of Google Meet all day, was a shitshow of a disaster. And it wasn't his teachers. His teachers were thoughtful and warm and caring. But they spent a minimum of 30 minutes a day asking kids to turn on their cameras, troubleshooting, admiring cats, etc. Another hour or two was incredibly boring. I get Zoom fatigue. It's not the same as being present in a space. The kids can't see each other working, which for my kid is really important. My kids both learned how to 'cheat' using Google Docs/Slides and their quality of work, especially my grade 4 kid, slid.
And I ran out of patience. I was working and going to school myself, the latter having been maybe a bad choice, but had it been like the first lockdown, we would have found a way to take the assignments and make them fun and do okay.
But what I could not bring myself to do was to sit there and make sure my child was watching the screen all day long...partly because after 10 minutes of "Sahar, please turn your camera on. Sahar, can you hear me?" I wanted to tear my hair out. And THEN it was really hard to make him do assignments because I'd watched him try. so. hard. all. day. to pay attention. And then he missed a lot of information because who doesn't zone out? Ugh. It was dreadful. I feel like in summer 2020 there could have been development of really interesting and engaging bits of curriculum -- get tech and animation companies involved - but of course no political will.
Anyways we won't make it through more virtual school. I picked in person but if cases go badly, I'll take a leave of absence and do real homeschool (I deliberately backed myself into a corner this way.)
Am I okay? Well I think I'm more okay than my youngest unvaccinated kind of depressed little guy. But I'm exhausted and furious and scared too.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:10 AM on August 25, 2021 [13 favorites]
Accurate Covid Information - easy to understand
The NY Times has you covered... here.
Covid Cases ... here.
Vaccination Data... here.
And here is an FPP from 2 days ago that was immediately challenged for how the statistics were gathered and interpreted.
And that’s here, on science-friendly metafilter.
There are many reputable sources publishing statistics right now, but the process of gathering and interpreting the underlying data differs between them and someone who is not an expert can very easily end up comparing apples to oranges.
If you want to choose a single source and never vary from repeating its contents then you can stay out of trouble, but that’s not what we’re seeing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:25 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
The NY Times has you covered... here.
Covid Cases ... here.
Vaccination Data... here.
And here is an FPP from 2 days ago that was immediately challenged for how the statistics were gathered and interpreted.
And that’s here, on science-friendly metafilter.
There are many reputable sources publishing statistics right now, but the process of gathering and interpreting the underlying data differs between them and someone who is not an expert can very easily end up comparing apples to oranges.
If you want to choose a single source and never vary from repeating its contents then you can stay out of trouble, but that’s not what we’re seeing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:25 AM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hold back your children from school attendance and relish in the knowledge that you as a parent are doing the best for your children and for everyone's safety. Yes it will be tough but at least you have the confidence in knowing your actions will be beneficial.
Do most landlords and mortgage companies these days accept payment in relish and confidence?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:29 AM on August 25, 2021 [35 favorites]
Do most landlords and mortgage companies these days accept payment in relish and confidence?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:29 AM on August 25, 2021 [35 favorites]
Parent in a rural, pro-Trump school district reporting in.
The school system is doing...bupkis. Masks optional; three-foot distancing "if we can"; CDC's and state department of health's updates to be communicated to and voted on by the school board (whose [sane and lonely] president is weighing the merits of taking their kids out of this district); handwashing and sanitizer present and encouraged; daily disinfection of high-touch surfaces; we'll open any windows and doors we have and use fans to blow air around, but no HVAC updates; we'll make vax info available to parents (internet usage here is...uneven) if it's passed along to us; we'll "continue to coordinate with" the state department of health. Note: no mention of testing, tracing, or notification of case numbers.
And that's it. Business as usual in an area with a 40-44 percent vax rate. And a bunch of religious objectors ("God is in control" a common sign outside local churches). And a LOT of angry anti-vaxxers. And I am supposed to trust my kids to this? In loco parentis is a joke when the decision-makers are sticking their fingers in their ears and still denying COVID is serious, and more concerningly ARE NOT VACCINATED AND/OR DON'T WEAR MASKS. What message is it sending when no adults in the school building are wearing masks? When bus drivers pull their masks down? When--setting aside everything they may believe or say--what they are doing are the things that are most likely to spread infection? And they would like me to return pieces of paper for their files? School spirit activities? Friday night football? Fuck that. No. Virtual and cyber for my kids; I will not throw them into this shitshow. Nothing is normal, and I refuse to participate in this school year as though it were. Schooling is going to suuuuuuck, even though my kids are accustomed to virtual learning.
We keep our kids in the loop about the importance of masking, and they're both vaccinated, thank God, but it's increasingly hard to explain to them that 80 percent of the people they see around them here are making very risky decisions by...doing the things we all did two years ago. It makes me feel irrational! Especially at the "we don't believe in masks" grocery stores. I stand out and get stink eye for doing what medical experts are suggesting! Because those with higher risk tolerance are out and about, and those who are more careful, or who can get things delivered, or who go shopping early are effectively invisible, and riskier behavior among adults looks normal to my kids! And I really want to direct your attention to srboisvert's comment on invisible risk vs. visible action.
Bottom line: My community has made choices that are going to put my kids (and especially my kid with a public-facing job) at risk. I am mitigating that as much as I can, but with bitterness and a basic standard of Live Through This. Not broken--yet--but living with a slow-boil rage about all of this.
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:37 AM on August 25, 2021 [28 favorites]
The school system is doing...bupkis. Masks optional; three-foot distancing "if we can"; CDC's and state department of health's updates to be communicated to and voted on by the school board (whose [sane and lonely] president is weighing the merits of taking their kids out of this district); handwashing and sanitizer present and encouraged; daily disinfection of high-touch surfaces; we'll open any windows and doors we have and use fans to blow air around, but no HVAC updates; we'll make vax info available to parents (internet usage here is...uneven) if it's passed along to us; we'll "continue to coordinate with" the state department of health. Note: no mention of testing, tracing, or notification of case numbers.
And that's it. Business as usual in an area with a 40-44 percent vax rate. And a bunch of religious objectors ("God is in control" a common sign outside local churches). And a LOT of angry anti-vaxxers. And I am supposed to trust my kids to this? In loco parentis is a joke when the decision-makers are sticking their fingers in their ears and still denying COVID is serious, and more concerningly ARE NOT VACCINATED AND/OR DON'T WEAR MASKS. What message is it sending when no adults in the school building are wearing masks? When bus drivers pull their masks down? When--setting aside everything they may believe or say--what they are doing are the things that are most likely to spread infection? And they would like me to return pieces of paper for their files? School spirit activities? Friday night football? Fuck that. No. Virtual and cyber for my kids; I will not throw them into this shitshow. Nothing is normal, and I refuse to participate in this school year as though it were. Schooling is going to suuuuuuck, even though my kids are accustomed to virtual learning.
We keep our kids in the loop about the importance of masking, and they're both vaccinated, thank God, but it's increasingly hard to explain to them that 80 percent of the people they see around them here are making very risky decisions by...doing the things we all did two years ago. It makes me feel irrational! Especially at the "we don't believe in masks" grocery stores. I stand out and get stink eye for doing what medical experts are suggesting! Because those with higher risk tolerance are out and about, and those who are more careful, or who can get things delivered, or who go shopping early are effectively invisible, and riskier behavior among adults looks normal to my kids! And I really want to direct your attention to srboisvert's comment on invisible risk vs. visible action.
Bottom line: My community has made choices that are going to put my kids (and especially my kid with a public-facing job) at risk. I am mitigating that as much as I can, but with bitterness and a basic standard of Live Through This. Not broken--yet--but living with a slow-boil rage about all of this.
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:37 AM on August 25, 2021 [28 favorites]
Do most landlords and mortgage companies these days accept payment in relish and confidence?
Yes, I blithely said above I would take a leave, and I will, but I will highlight that I was laid off for 6 months last year, and spent my CERB on education in case my industry doesn't bounce back, 'cause I'm 50 and my other career is remarkably...age sensitive. I'm fortunate in that the money I need now would be going towards university tuition of the future and retirement savings, so I'm going to be able to eat and be housed.
But we'll feel it in 3-5 years, and again in 15. And being Gen-X, of course, it's not the first time our finances have been torpedoed either directly or through market crashes. (But not complaining at Millennials or younger, who have been even more royally screwed because at least we were able to buy a house.)
posted by warriorqueen at 9:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yes, I blithely said above I would take a leave, and I will, but I will highlight that I was laid off for 6 months last year, and spent my CERB on education in case my industry doesn't bounce back, 'cause I'm 50 and my other career is remarkably...age sensitive. I'm fortunate in that the money I need now would be going towards university tuition of the future and retirement savings, so I'm going to be able to eat and be housed.
But we'll feel it in 3-5 years, and again in 15. And being Gen-X, of course, it's not the first time our finances have been torpedoed either directly or through market crashes. (But not complaining at Millennials or younger, who have been even more royally screwed because at least we were able to buy a house.)
posted by warriorqueen at 9:40 AM on August 25, 2021 [8 favorites]
for many COVID is not particularly personally scary,
That has not been my experience. For most people I’ve encountered who are anti-mask and or anti-vaccine (Hi extended family!) they state their options as “hide in terror in the basement or go out and live your life.“ These are the only options they see for themselves and both are cast in terms of fear. They don’t want to think about Covid, and most of them got their start denying that it even existed, but every time someone mentions masks or vaccines it pokes them right in that sore spot of being terrified in the basement.
I’ll grant you there is a difference between being afraid of the actual virus and being afraid of being afraid (see aramaic’s comment) but people are terrified either way.
they don't have empathy for those who are at the front lines dealing with it.
That I definitely agree with. Regardless of how people are feeling, many can’t do empathy for things they can’t touch.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:42 AM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
That has not been my experience. For most people I’ve encountered who are anti-mask and or anti-vaccine (Hi extended family!) they state their options as “hide in terror in the basement or go out and live your life.“ These are the only options they see for themselves and both are cast in terms of fear. They don’t want to think about Covid, and most of them got their start denying that it even existed, but every time someone mentions masks or vaccines it pokes them right in that sore spot of being terrified in the basement.
I’ll grant you there is a difference between being afraid of the actual virus and being afraid of being afraid (see aramaic’s comment) but people are terrified either way.
they don't have empathy for those who are at the front lines dealing with it.
That I definitely agree with. Regardless of how people are feeling, many can’t do empathy for things they can’t touch.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:42 AM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
I don't think we'd be in this pickle if education were the priority in practice that it is on paper.
Hell, it isn’t even THAT much of a priority on paper.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:00 AM on August 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
Hell, it isn’t even THAT much of a priority on paper.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:00 AM on August 25, 2021 [7 favorites]
“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.” ― Benjamin Disraeli
The links I provided were sources where the data has been gathered. Without relying upon any commentary or assessment by the source it is totally apparent that numbers of cases are rising and the lack of public action will only lead to a wider and more pernicious outbreak. When you encounter an 'unknown' aspect in your life which gives fear, uncertainty, and doubt it is very easy to feel overwhelmed and to rely upon dubious hearsay and Facebook opinion (for one aspect) as a means of justifying your action or inaction. Unfortunately people relish in lack of knowledge and reasoning to determine THEIR best course of action. Sadly a head in the sand approach does not work.
Arguing that a specific source does not present accurate statistical information is NOT solving the problem. Just look at the base numbers presented by the likes of ProMed (NOTE: due to the sheer diversity of posts globally you may have to dig a bit) who just report numbers directly from the field and you do not need to be a statistician to note the danger posed by Covid to you and everyone around you.
There are many views, opinions, and voices clamoring to be heard as their information is more relevant than others because... Arguing semantics and validity of statistics does not solve the problem. There are clear actions needed to be safe and people seem to be ignoring them. Why, I do not know. This stuff is serious people. Treat it as such.
The relevant opinion voiced by comment on invisible risk vs. visible action. Reads so true.
My favorite quote goes to Jean Baudrillard:
“Once upon a time there was much talk of the apathy of the masses. Their silence was the crucial fact for an earlier generation. Today, however, the masses act not by deflection but by infection, tainting opinion polls and forecasts with their multifarious phantasies. Their abstention and their silence are no longer determining factors (that stage was still nihilistic); what counts now is their use of the cogs in the workings of uncertainty. Where the masses once sported with their voluntary servitude, they now sport with their involuntary incertitude. Unbeknownst to the experts who scrutinize them and the manipulators who believe they can influence them, they have grasped the fact that politics is virtually dead, and that they now have a new game to play, just as exciting as the ups and downs of the stock market. This game enables them to make audiences, charismas, levels of prestige and the market prices of images dance up and down with an intolerable facility. The masses had been deliberately demoralized and de-ideologized in order that they might become the live prey of probability theory, but now it is they who destabilize all images and play games with political truth.” ― Jean Baudrillard, The Transparency of Evil: Essays in Extreme Phenomena
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 10:17 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
The links I provided were sources where the data has been gathered. Without relying upon any commentary or assessment by the source it is totally apparent that numbers of cases are rising and the lack of public action will only lead to a wider and more pernicious outbreak. When you encounter an 'unknown' aspect in your life which gives fear, uncertainty, and doubt it is very easy to feel overwhelmed and to rely upon dubious hearsay and Facebook opinion (for one aspect) as a means of justifying your action or inaction. Unfortunately people relish in lack of knowledge and reasoning to determine THEIR best course of action. Sadly a head in the sand approach does not work.
Arguing that a specific source does not present accurate statistical information is NOT solving the problem. Just look at the base numbers presented by the likes of ProMed (NOTE: due to the sheer diversity of posts globally you may have to dig a bit) who just report numbers directly from the field and you do not need to be a statistician to note the danger posed by Covid to you and everyone around you.
There are many views, opinions, and voices clamoring to be heard as their information is more relevant than others because... Arguing semantics and validity of statistics does not solve the problem. There are clear actions needed to be safe and people seem to be ignoring them. Why, I do not know. This stuff is serious people. Treat it as such.
The relevant opinion voiced by comment on invisible risk vs. visible action. Reads so true.
My favorite quote goes to Jean Baudrillard:
“Once upon a time there was much talk of the apathy of the masses. Their silence was the crucial fact for an earlier generation. Today, however, the masses act not by deflection but by infection, tainting opinion polls and forecasts with their multifarious phantasies. Their abstention and their silence are no longer determining factors (that stage was still nihilistic); what counts now is their use of the cogs in the workings of uncertainty. Where the masses once sported with their voluntary servitude, they now sport with their involuntary incertitude. Unbeknownst to the experts who scrutinize them and the manipulators who believe they can influence them, they have grasped the fact that politics is virtually dead, and that they now have a new game to play, just as exciting as the ups and downs of the stock market. This game enables them to make audiences, charismas, levels of prestige and the market prices of images dance up and down with an intolerable facility. The masses had been deliberately demoralized and de-ideologized in order that they might become the live prey of probability theory, but now it is they who destabilize all images and play games with political truth.” ― Jean Baudrillard, The Transparency of Evil: Essays in Extreme Phenomena
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 10:17 AM on August 25, 2021 [9 favorites]
I am a parent who is “lucky” enough to have a remote job and a remote learning option available for their kid. I am not OK.
This article made the rounds in my friend group chats, but the dichotomy in our pandemic parenting experiences made it difficult to comment on it besides “yes, so true.” I mean, I have friends who never stopped sending their young kids to daycare (or indoor toddler swimming lessons taught by a teacher breathing literally inches from their kids’ faces). I have friends who sent their kids back to in-person school the moment they reopened, and friends who kept their kids in distance learning to finish out the school year. I have friends whose families got COVID because they never stopped their kids’ indoor extracurricular sports. I have colleagues who took their kids on multiple vacations to Florida. Some friends stopped indoor visits with extended family, and others didn’t. I have friends who think nothing about taking their unmasked, unvaccinated kids with them to stores, and my kid has literally not entered a building that was not a medical office since March 2020. As a family with a medically high-risk kid, my household is living a totally different pandemic life, and it really sucks. We are not ok.
posted by Maarika at 10:47 AM on August 25, 2021 [31 favorites]
This article made the rounds in my friend group chats, but the dichotomy in our pandemic parenting experiences made it difficult to comment on it besides “yes, so true.” I mean, I have friends who never stopped sending their young kids to daycare (or indoor toddler swimming lessons taught by a teacher breathing literally inches from their kids’ faces). I have friends who sent their kids back to in-person school the moment they reopened, and friends who kept their kids in distance learning to finish out the school year. I have friends whose families got COVID because they never stopped their kids’ indoor extracurricular sports. I have colleagues who took their kids on multiple vacations to Florida. Some friends stopped indoor visits with extended family, and others didn’t. I have friends who think nothing about taking their unmasked, unvaccinated kids with them to stores, and my kid has literally not entered a building that was not a medical office since March 2020. As a family with a medically high-risk kid, my household is living a totally different pandemic life, and it really sucks. We are not ok.
posted by Maarika at 10:47 AM on August 25, 2021 [31 favorites]
they state their options as “hide in terror in the basement or go out and live your life.“ These are the only options they see for themselves and both are cast in terms of fear.
I've noticed this as well, and it doesn't make sense to me. I am not actively afraid of getting in a car accident every time I get in a car. I still always wear my seatbelt, even for short trips on days with good weather and low traffic. Do people only buckle-up for blizzards?
In a similar vein, I always wear a mask when I'm grocery shopping, on the bus, etc. I even frequently have it when walking around outside, because I can't be bothered to put it on and take it off repeatedly. I've also gotten vaccinated and held off on travel.
I'm able to control my exposure to people for the most part: work from home or go to the office where we are rarely in the same room with anyone, and if we are for brief periods, we are all vaccinated. So my daily life is like going for a drive on a nice day. I don't fear Covid, but do what I can to avoid risking exposure and mitigate the impact if I am exposed.
If I had to work with the public or had kids, I'd probably feel a lot more like I got stuck driving in a blizzard with a jerk tailgating me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
I've noticed this as well, and it doesn't make sense to me. I am not actively afraid of getting in a car accident every time I get in a car. I still always wear my seatbelt, even for short trips on days with good weather and low traffic. Do people only buckle-up for blizzards?
In a similar vein, I always wear a mask when I'm grocery shopping, on the bus, etc. I even frequently have it when walking around outside, because I can't be bothered to put it on and take it off repeatedly. I've also gotten vaccinated and held off on travel.
I'm able to control my exposure to people for the most part: work from home or go to the office where we are rarely in the same room with anyone, and if we are for brief periods, we are all vaccinated. So my daily life is like going for a drive on a nice day. I don't fear Covid, but do what I can to avoid risking exposure and mitigate the impact if I am exposed.
If I had to work with the public or had kids, I'd probably feel a lot more like I got stuck driving in a blizzard with a jerk tailgating me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
Our only child was born in March so we haven't had to deal with school yet, but it's also weird because we started parenthood alone.
Knowing this would be an issue we didn't tell anyone my wife was pregnant because she judged that to be the best way to keep family from showing up at our door during the pandemic. No belly pokes or unsolicited advice from strangers for her. She hasn't even been to the grocery store since last spring. We finally broke the news the day after our son was born and his grandmother came alone, masked, for a couple of days, which we allowed due to the special circumstances. She got her Pfizer vaccination soon after and came to see us three more times this summer, but she's a pre-K teacher so now that school has started back we've had to tell her she's not coming over again until the baby is vaccinated or next summer, whichever is first. We were going to take him back to our hometown to meet his great grandfather but as news we were doing so trickled out across the family it became A Thing so we had to cancel.
The most people who my five month old son has ever seen in a room together was the day he was born. Since then he has been to the doctor's office, the park next door, and our apartment. We went for a brief hike at a park in the next town last weekend. I wonder what will happen if that continues. Do your face cells differentiate properly if you never see any new faces? Will he have agoraphobia if he doesn't get to go to the agora until he's a toddler?
We're alone too. We weren't parents when we locked down so frankly we didn't know any parents to talk to about anything. We still don't. There are no baby sitters or visitors. We have a really easy baby but even so there's no relief for now, and none in sight. Maybe it's like this for everyone regardless of pandemics.
If I tell any of our red state family any of this their solution will be to hop in the truck and come over, so it's easier not to say a thing.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 11:31 AM on August 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
Knowing this would be an issue we didn't tell anyone my wife was pregnant because she judged that to be the best way to keep family from showing up at our door during the pandemic. No belly pokes or unsolicited advice from strangers for her. She hasn't even been to the grocery store since last spring. We finally broke the news the day after our son was born and his grandmother came alone, masked, for a couple of days, which we allowed due to the special circumstances. She got her Pfizer vaccination soon after and came to see us three more times this summer, but she's a pre-K teacher so now that school has started back we've had to tell her she's not coming over again until the baby is vaccinated or next summer, whichever is first. We were going to take him back to our hometown to meet his great grandfather but as news we were doing so trickled out across the family it became A Thing so we had to cancel.
The most people who my five month old son has ever seen in a room together was the day he was born. Since then he has been to the doctor's office, the park next door, and our apartment. We went for a brief hike at a park in the next town last weekend. I wonder what will happen if that continues. Do your face cells differentiate properly if you never see any new faces? Will he have agoraphobia if he doesn't get to go to the agora until he's a toddler?
We're alone too. We weren't parents when we locked down so frankly we didn't know any parents to talk to about anything. We still don't. There are no baby sitters or visitors. We have a really easy baby but even so there's no relief for now, and none in sight. Maybe it's like this for everyone regardless of pandemics.
If I tell any of our red state family any of this their solution will be to hop in the truck and come over, so it's easier not to say a thing.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 11:31 AM on August 25, 2021 [20 favorites]
My kid broke down as I pulled up to the curb to drop him off for the second day of in-person schooling. The asynchronous pace of his first year of high school turns out to have suited him very well, and the idea of seven hours of classes bam-bam-bam, masked in crowded halls in an old building did not feel safe or do-able. So we drove home, will regroup and try again tomorrow. I'm sure he's not the only kid who felt pushed to the brink after the first day. He's got his three favorite teachers from freshman year again this year, and it was neat to meet kids he'd only seen through Zoom. We all want this to work, but powering through it like nothing has happened is naive.
posted by bendybendy at 11:33 AM on August 25, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by bendybendy at 11:33 AM on August 25, 2021 [19 favorites]
If I had to work with the public or had kids, I'd probably feel a lot more like I got stuck driving in a blizzard with a jerk tailgating me.
I work in the semi-public (lately I've been working front desk as well as in the program) - walk ins are rare but happen and we have about 250 students and parents in and out in a week. Everyone is required to wear a mask indoors from the moment they come in, and the kids can only take the off to eat; everyone else wears them the whole time.
What happened for me is actually...I've adjusted. I don't feel like I'm driving in a blizzard until something shifts like there's an exposure. And I think this is some of the dichotomy of the experience. If you're a parent who sent their child to some in-person learning (we did Sept-Dec 2020) or who just plain absolutely has to have daycare for whatever reason, you have adjusted something. In some cases it might be hopeful/magical thinking, or an acceptance of risk, or terror at night but you are having a different pandemic than those who haven't had to send their kids anywhere.
It's like parents of toddlers are also having a completely different pandemic than parents of teens. Way more accidental poisonings in the first case, overloaded eating disorder and mental health clinics in the second.
All that is still hard. It's hard to change too. Pandemics really suck.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:35 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
I work in the semi-public (lately I've been working front desk as well as in the program) - walk ins are rare but happen and we have about 250 students and parents in and out in a week. Everyone is required to wear a mask indoors from the moment they come in, and the kids can only take the off to eat; everyone else wears them the whole time.
What happened for me is actually...I've adjusted. I don't feel like I'm driving in a blizzard until something shifts like there's an exposure. And I think this is some of the dichotomy of the experience. If you're a parent who sent their child to some in-person learning (we did Sept-Dec 2020) or who just plain absolutely has to have daycare for whatever reason, you have adjusted something. In some cases it might be hopeful/magical thinking, or an acceptance of risk, or terror at night but you are having a different pandemic than those who haven't had to send their kids anywhere.
It's like parents of toddlers are also having a completely different pandemic than parents of teens. Way more accidental poisonings in the first case, overloaded eating disorder and mental health clinics in the second.
All that is still hard. It's hard to change too. Pandemics really suck.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:35 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
My kid's school district is encouraging vaccinations, requiring masks, sticking to three feet of social distancing (which is about as much as the space allows), and testing all non-vaccinated/refuse-to-disclose people once a week... unless they don't want to.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:46 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:46 AM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
My COVID parenting has reached peak inconsistency, Slate
posted by Mchelly at 12:05 PM on August 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 12:05 PM on August 25, 2021 [3 favorites]
We discovered that our child was exposed in the classroom a week later because the teacher mentioned it. When we asked why we weren't notified, it's because the criteria is "closer than 6 feet for 15 minutes". Apparently "10ft in an enclosed room for 1.5 hours" isn't enough.
posted by goddess_eris at 12:33 PM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by goddess_eris at 12:33 PM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
A lot of the criteria seem based on that bygone era of July 2021.
posted by bendybendy at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2021
posted by bendybendy at 12:38 PM on August 25, 2021
I'd be careful about declaring "peak inconsistency" this early in Delta Wave. :)
posted by warriorqueen at 12:41 PM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 12:41 PM on August 25, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've noticed this as well, and it doesn't make sense to me. I am not actively afraid of getting in a car accident every time I get in a car. I still always wear my seatbelt, even for short trips on days with good weather and low traffic. Do people only buckle-up for blizzards?
It makes perfect sense to me, not because I act this way around COVID but because I have an anxiety disorder. When I am terrified of something, forcing myself to think about and acknowledge it is difficult: the activation of fight-or-flight that one feels in that state actively interferes with logic like "I can control my risk of dying by wearing a mask." Indeed, the temptation is overwhelming to ignore the thing I am anxious about: I have been spending much of my day very anxious about a manuscript review, so I have been trying very hard to not engage with it, find other things to do with my time, and pretend that there will be no consequences for ignoring it just a little longer. When I do engage with it, the temptation will be to race through it with a minimum of thought and reaction because I have learned that grappling with the review is frightening and makes me feel very bad; indeed, anxiety and fear often result in impulsive behaviors as people try to deal with a scary thing by quickly rushing through the source of the emotion.
Much of our cognitive reasoning is post-hoc justification for strong emotional reactions anyway; it's not surprising to see that people who are absolutely terrified of getting COVID and dying might counter-intuitively manage their fear by refusing to acknowledge that the source of it is real and becoming angry when someone forces them to think about it, or clinging to obviously false beliefs that make them feel safe. That's just human nature when you have an overarching threat that you feel you can't control and don't trust anyone to fix. What we do about antivaxxers and COVID deniers is a very different matter, but surely empathizing with and understanding the fears that drive initially counter-intuitive behaviors is a useful first step.
posted by sciatrix at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2021 [25 favorites]
It makes perfect sense to me, not because I act this way around COVID but because I have an anxiety disorder. When I am terrified of something, forcing myself to think about and acknowledge it is difficult: the activation of fight-or-flight that one feels in that state actively interferes with logic like "I can control my risk of dying by wearing a mask." Indeed, the temptation is overwhelming to ignore the thing I am anxious about: I have been spending much of my day very anxious about a manuscript review, so I have been trying very hard to not engage with it, find other things to do with my time, and pretend that there will be no consequences for ignoring it just a little longer. When I do engage with it, the temptation will be to race through it with a minimum of thought and reaction because I have learned that grappling with the review is frightening and makes me feel very bad; indeed, anxiety and fear often result in impulsive behaviors as people try to deal with a scary thing by quickly rushing through the source of the emotion.
Much of our cognitive reasoning is post-hoc justification for strong emotional reactions anyway; it's not surprising to see that people who are absolutely terrified of getting COVID and dying might counter-intuitively manage their fear by refusing to acknowledge that the source of it is real and becoming angry when someone forces them to think about it, or clinging to obviously false beliefs that make them feel safe. That's just human nature when you have an overarching threat that you feel you can't control and don't trust anyone to fix. What we do about antivaxxers and COVID deniers is a very different matter, but surely empathizing with and understanding the fears that drive initially counter-intuitive behaviors is a useful first step.
posted by sciatrix at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2021 [25 favorites]
The pandemic has been terrible for most people, but it has been terrible for parents in some very particular ways that aren't shared by those of us without children. The article and other comments here have articulated that particular terribleness well.
There are many (so, so many) ways I wish that we had responded better as a society to this challenge, and putting so much extra stress and work on parents is one of the things that we should have done very differently.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:59 PM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
There are many (so, so many) ways I wish that we had responded better as a society to this challenge, and putting so much extra stress and work on parents is one of the things that we should have done very differently.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:59 PM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
“If God had intended us to wear masks he would have made us with masks". This from an individual wearing clothes, jewelry, and eye glasses.
I would have asked her if she was wearing shoes.
The stories of schools desperately pressing to upgrade their ventilation hits hard for me. As I previously mentioned on the blue, my high school (built in 1925) was closed in June 2019 by the school board in its wisdom. It was replaced by a new squat modernist pile twelve blocks away.
The stated reason was that to upgrade the old school to modern codes would have cost $24 million and it would be more cost-effective to build a new school for, er... $32 million (which some would argue is a higher figure).
As I mentioned a year or more ago, when pandemic restrictions first arose, the same far-sighted school board was shipping students around to makeshift classrooms in rented storefronts and church basements, literally right past an empty building full of classrooms they already owned and which had been shuttered for less than a year.
Now the new school — each classroom with a single shoebox-sized hinged window — has been found lacking in ventilation and more money being poured into that. My old school, jewel of gothic architecture, each classroom with two banks of one-yard sized windows that open wide, is still sitting unused.
As of to underline that the writers are phoning it in, my school was called Delta.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:53 PM on August 25, 2021 [17 favorites]
I would have asked her if she was wearing shoes.
The stories of schools desperately pressing to upgrade their ventilation hits hard for me. As I previously mentioned on the blue, my high school (built in 1925) was closed in June 2019 by the school board in its wisdom. It was replaced by a new squat modernist pile twelve blocks away.
The stated reason was that to upgrade the old school to modern codes would have cost $24 million and it would be more cost-effective to build a new school for, er... $32 million (which some would argue is a higher figure).
As I mentioned a year or more ago, when pandemic restrictions first arose, the same far-sighted school board was shipping students around to makeshift classrooms in rented storefronts and church basements, literally right past an empty building full of classrooms they already owned and which had been shuttered for less than a year.
Now the new school — each classroom with a single shoebox-sized hinged window — has been found lacking in ventilation and more money being poured into that. My old school, jewel of gothic architecture, each classroom with two banks of one-yard sized windows that open wide, is still sitting unused.
As of to underline that the writers are phoning it in, my school was called Delta.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:53 PM on August 25, 2021 [17 favorites]
All of my own calculations, plus what few models there are, suggests that our unvaccinated children are quite likely to catch Covid in the next three months, even in fully masked classrooms. I am accepting this outcome because we have no choice. We cannot afford to home school again: one of us would lose their job, and then we would lose our house, and then the other would lose their job. We have literally no choice but to send our children to school with a ~50% chance of catching Covid, a ~1% chance of being hospitalized, and a difficult-to-measure but non-negligable chance of death. "Not okay" does not adquequately characterize this situation.
Like all mass suffering, the only reason we aren't in the streets burning things down is (1) people don't feel like there's anything to be done (false, but understandable), and (2) the same disasters causing this situation also prevent us from taking useful action.
posted by chortly at 2:55 PM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
Like all mass suffering, the only reason we aren't in the streets burning things down is (1) people don't feel like there's anything to be done (false, but understandable), and (2) the same disasters causing this situation also prevent us from taking useful action.
posted by chortly at 2:55 PM on August 25, 2021 [10 favorites]
This dad's experience is really different from my experience as a dad. We both have one vaxed and one unvaxed kid and both (per his bio saying he's in Chicago) are in school districts with mask mandates for students and staff, but -- it's different. I am not saying there's anything wrong or untrue about his experience, any more than he would say there's anything wrong or untrue about mine. But I just thought I would register, since we're all talking about our own stuff, that when he says "parents," he means "a lot of parents," not "parents in general," but there's a huge range of how this feels, including among parents of MetaFilter.
posted by escabeche at 6:01 PM on August 25, 2021
posted by escabeche at 6:01 PM on August 25, 2021
Talking with two of my buddies, one isn't planning to start his preschool age kid this fall out of fear of COVID. His mom begged him not to send her grandchild. The other is starting their preschool aged kid based on advice from their pediatrician that delaying preschool would harm the child's social development. It's like your damned if you do and damned if you don't.
If you read up vaccine approval for kids under 12, you'll find calmly worded explainers patiently detailing how younger age groups are approved last because of unique dosage requirements amongst children and the need to ensure the highest standards of safety and efficacy, particularly because COVID tends to be less severe amongst younger individuals. Meanwhile, the CDC decided to push the fear button in August knowing large portions of the country were going to ignore their masking recommendations and even act in direct opposition to them.
I'm not sure what could be done about that, but the lack of coordination between the various agencies responsible for public health is frustrating and strikes me as more than a little cruel.
posted by eagles123 at 7:10 PM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you read up vaccine approval for kids under 12, you'll find calmly worded explainers patiently detailing how younger age groups are approved last because of unique dosage requirements amongst children and the need to ensure the highest standards of safety and efficacy, particularly because COVID tends to be less severe amongst younger individuals. Meanwhile, the CDC decided to push the fear button in August knowing large portions of the country were going to ignore their masking recommendations and even act in direct opposition to them.
I'm not sure what could be done about that, but the lack of coordination between the various agencies responsible for public health is frustrating and strikes me as more than a little cruel.
posted by eagles123 at 7:10 PM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also from the Atlantic, Why Parents Kept Their Kids Home From School:
My colleagues and I conducted an online survey of 1,668 U.S. parents with school-age children, which we fielded through the polling firm Ipsos in December 2020. Looking at parents whose children had the option of attending school in person (i.e., at a physical school building for at least part of the week), we examined what predicted whether those families chose in-person or remote schooling (i.e., online instruction or homeschooling) and their accounts of the choices they made. We found, as we describe in a new working paper, that the biggest factor for many families was rather concrete: whether a parent or other adult was available during the school day to supervise kids. And because of racial inequality in America—and, specifically, because of racial inequalities in the layoffs that came early in the pandemic—whether such an adult was home varied greatly by race.This passage hit the nail on the head how our current system of schooling is failing everybody:
[P]arents who did not lose their job and remained employed full-time had to balance their concerns about their children’s safety with the challenges of combining intensive work and parenting demands. ... [F]or parents who chose in-person instruction for work-related reasons, the decision was rarely easy. Instead, those decisions created guilt for parents—and especially for mothers.posted by cheshyre at 7:13 PM on August 25, 2021 [6 favorites]
My family and kids have so far gotten off lightly this pandemic. We made the decision that they'd do online learning last year, primarily because we live with my mother who is in her 80's. It was a bit of a lost yearOur kids have classmates that still went to school and none of them had cases in their classes so in hindsight our kids would have been OK but that isn't something that we can second guess now. Now that all of the adults in the house are vaccinated we're going to let our kids go back to in-person school this year. Partly because we saw last year that they would switch back to virtual learning if the numbers got too high.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:19 PM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:19 PM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Upgrade ventilation, add covered space for outdoor classrooms, "
So, you basically can't get outdoor coverings right now for love or money -- at least not in areas that are taking the pandemic seriously. My kids' school makes huge use of outdoor space for teaching, for all eating, etc., and the company they get the tents from is delivering several weeks late because THEY HAVE NO TENTS.
We had our kids remote all of last year; one of them really thrived in remote learning, having school be a little more like college; the other two haaaaaaaaated it. And it was a nightmare, spending six hours a day keeping three kids on track in the hell of remote school, and then doing 8 hours of work, and in between trying to cook and clean and force people to shower. It's been five people in a tiny little house ALL TALKING ALL THE TIME, and nowhere to go to escape it. My three started in-person on Monday and I am already a better parent just because I'm having some quiet during the day, and I'm not completely out of patience by noon. They were being screaming hooligans this afternoon around 5, and I was like, "Oh, this ... isn't actually bothering me, because I haven't been listening to it for THE LAST SIX HOURS, like I had to EVERY DAY FOR EIGHTEEN SOLID MONTHS."
I feel so-so about my kids going back. Illinois has a universal mask mandate for K-12, and is making SHIELD tests available to all districts at no cost (that's the test U of I developed, and road tested on their own campus last year). My kids will be tested weekly. They've told us they will be requiring proof of vaccination for Covid when it is fully-approved for children, but you can start providing proof NOW, for older kids, and they get to engage in a slightly less-onerous testing regime for participation in (notably) high school sports. The town I live in has been very scrupulous about masking and distancing, and we have a very high rate of vaccination. They've hired the tents for the outdoors, increased staffing, and decreased class sizes. It's really the best possible version of in-person school during a pandemic.
But, uggggh, I hate sending my kids out the door in masks every day. I have a kindergartener! She's really scrupulous about her mask, but 5-year-olds aren't great about social distancing. But it's so scary. Everyone's been parenting on hard mode for the last 18 months, and this is like -- still hard mode, just a different kind of hard mode. I'm not constantly on the edge of losing my shit every moment of every day, but every day is terrifying. And just the relentless drumbeat of assholes who won't get the shot, won't wear masks, and show up at school board meetings to shriek "BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN WHO DESERVE NORMAL LIVES WITH NO COVID RESTRICTIONS!" and somehow you're still not allowed to punch those people in the face without getting arrested for assault. Like, yeah, they fucking do, SO GET THE GODDAMNED SHOT AND PUT ON A MASK YOU ABSOLUTE COATHANGER. YOU ARE THE ROADBLOCK, YOU PERSONALLY.
And I just -- I know they'll probably be remote in a month, or two, when schools have to shut down. But I need the BREAK. And my 5-year-old, she doesn't remember going in a store. She doesn't remember eating in a restaurant. We went to the library one day this summer, and she literally screamed when people approached within six feet of her, because she does not remember strangers not being an existential threat required by law to stay six feet back. When we entered the building, she stopped next to the door to take her shoes off. I said, "Oh, no, we keep our shoes on." And she said, "Are you sure we're allowed to, mommy? They're our outside shoes." She does not remember going into buildings other than private homes where you take your shoes off. (We have been in a "pod" with my two local brothers, when allowed to gather with people outside our households.) What other completely normal parts of everyday life that little-little kids normally learn just by existing in the world has she never learned or completely forgotten? It scares me a little!
I also have a child with a disability, and that has been an underreported story of the pandemic that deserves a hell of a lot more ink. A lot of kids who receive special education services through their schools just ... haven't, for the past 18 months. A lot of those services can't be provided remotely in a realistic way. Some of these kids are too medically-fragile to be in a school building during a pandemic at all. And the truth is that special ed funding was already wildly inadequate and in most large urban districts was in a state of collapse before the pandemic, with major lawsuits in almost every large urban district that I can think of about lack of adequacy. But it's the same in smaller districts, too. And these kids were just ... dropped. For 18 months. I have done my damnedest over the past 18 months to make up for all the physical therapists and occupational therapists and speech therapists and educational coaches and school accommodations that my child is entitled to by law and that he needs to learn and thrive and be a happy kid. But I don't have the professional expertise to meet all of my child's needs. And that is hard to say as a parent, but the fact is, I don't. I've been a giant fail-whale of a parent for the last 18 months, because I am not 8 people with many and diverse professional degrees.
And I know it's not my fault. I have been doing my best. Shit happens, global pandemics happen, you do the best that you can. But knowing that it's not my fault doesn't make it any less-awful to sit there every single day and know I'm failing my child because I'm not 8 other people he needs in his life.
So anyway, between my feral kindergartener and my disabled child who needs more than his parents can provide, I don't think we could have made any other choice but to send them back to school. But I don't feel GOOD about it. And I'm horribly conflicted about whether it was the right choice. And I get up every day knowing, "Yep, this is going to end badly. I don't know how, exactly, but it will." But I also know that keeping them home would have ended badly, just in different ways. So ... this is the horn of the dilemma that I've impaled my entire family on. God forgive me.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:28 PM on August 25, 2021 [46 favorites]
So, you basically can't get outdoor coverings right now for love or money -- at least not in areas that are taking the pandemic seriously. My kids' school makes huge use of outdoor space for teaching, for all eating, etc., and the company they get the tents from is delivering several weeks late because THEY HAVE NO TENTS.
We had our kids remote all of last year; one of them really thrived in remote learning, having school be a little more like college; the other two haaaaaaaaated it. And it was a nightmare, spending six hours a day keeping three kids on track in the hell of remote school, and then doing 8 hours of work, and in between trying to cook and clean and force people to shower. It's been five people in a tiny little house ALL TALKING ALL THE TIME, and nowhere to go to escape it. My three started in-person on Monday and I am already a better parent just because I'm having some quiet during the day, and I'm not completely out of patience by noon. They were being screaming hooligans this afternoon around 5, and I was like, "Oh, this ... isn't actually bothering me, because I haven't been listening to it for THE LAST SIX HOURS, like I had to EVERY DAY FOR EIGHTEEN SOLID MONTHS."
I feel so-so about my kids going back. Illinois has a universal mask mandate for K-12, and is making SHIELD tests available to all districts at no cost (that's the test U of I developed, and road tested on their own campus last year). My kids will be tested weekly. They've told us they will be requiring proof of vaccination for Covid when it is fully-approved for children, but you can start providing proof NOW, for older kids, and they get to engage in a slightly less-onerous testing regime for participation in (notably) high school sports. The town I live in has been very scrupulous about masking and distancing, and we have a very high rate of vaccination. They've hired the tents for the outdoors, increased staffing, and decreased class sizes. It's really the best possible version of in-person school during a pandemic.
But, uggggh, I hate sending my kids out the door in masks every day. I have a kindergartener! She's really scrupulous about her mask, but 5-year-olds aren't great about social distancing. But it's so scary. Everyone's been parenting on hard mode for the last 18 months, and this is like -- still hard mode, just a different kind of hard mode. I'm not constantly on the edge of losing my shit every moment of every day, but every day is terrifying. And just the relentless drumbeat of assholes who won't get the shot, won't wear masks, and show up at school board meetings to shriek "BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN WHO DESERVE NORMAL LIVES WITH NO COVID RESTRICTIONS!" and somehow you're still not allowed to punch those people in the face without getting arrested for assault. Like, yeah, they fucking do, SO GET THE GODDAMNED SHOT AND PUT ON A MASK YOU ABSOLUTE COATHANGER. YOU ARE THE ROADBLOCK, YOU PERSONALLY.
And I just -- I know they'll probably be remote in a month, or two, when schools have to shut down. But I need the BREAK. And my 5-year-old, she doesn't remember going in a store. She doesn't remember eating in a restaurant. We went to the library one day this summer, and she literally screamed when people approached within six feet of her, because she does not remember strangers not being an existential threat required by law to stay six feet back. When we entered the building, she stopped next to the door to take her shoes off. I said, "Oh, no, we keep our shoes on." And she said, "Are you sure we're allowed to, mommy? They're our outside shoes." She does not remember going into buildings other than private homes where you take your shoes off. (We have been in a "pod" with my two local brothers, when allowed to gather with people outside our households.) What other completely normal parts of everyday life that little-little kids normally learn just by existing in the world has she never learned or completely forgotten? It scares me a little!
I also have a child with a disability, and that has been an underreported story of the pandemic that deserves a hell of a lot more ink. A lot of kids who receive special education services through their schools just ... haven't, for the past 18 months. A lot of those services can't be provided remotely in a realistic way. Some of these kids are too medically-fragile to be in a school building during a pandemic at all. And the truth is that special ed funding was already wildly inadequate and in most large urban districts was in a state of collapse before the pandemic, with major lawsuits in almost every large urban district that I can think of about lack of adequacy. But it's the same in smaller districts, too. And these kids were just ... dropped. For 18 months. I have done my damnedest over the past 18 months to make up for all the physical therapists and occupational therapists and speech therapists and educational coaches and school accommodations that my child is entitled to by law and that he needs to learn and thrive and be a happy kid. But I don't have the professional expertise to meet all of my child's needs. And that is hard to say as a parent, but the fact is, I don't. I've been a giant fail-whale of a parent for the last 18 months, because I am not 8 people with many and diverse professional degrees.
And I know it's not my fault. I have been doing my best. Shit happens, global pandemics happen, you do the best that you can. But knowing that it's not my fault doesn't make it any less-awful to sit there every single day and know I'm failing my child because I'm not 8 other people he needs in his life.
So anyway, between my feral kindergartener and my disabled child who needs more than his parents can provide, I don't think we could have made any other choice but to send them back to school. But I don't feel GOOD about it. And I'm horribly conflicted about whether it was the right choice. And I get up every day knowing, "Yep, this is going to end badly. I don't know how, exactly, but it will." But I also know that keeping them home would have ended badly, just in different ways. So ... this is the horn of the dilemma that I've impaled my entire family on. God forgive me.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:28 PM on August 25, 2021 [46 favorites]
I have a high-risk 11yo. I got her her first Pfizer shot on Saturday, the only way I could. The way I could've a month ago, if I'd been resolute back then.
But back then, I thought, maybe the 5-to-11 EUA will come in time. Or maybe approval for adults will come in time, and our pediatrician will prescribe off-label, and we can find somewhere to fill it. Or maybe or maybe.
No. Our pediatrician and our pulmonologist were powerless to help us. With their blessing and nothing else, I coached my kid about the lies she might need to tell. Pretend to be shy; let me do the talking. You were born in 2009.
In the end, only I had to lie, and not to anyone's face.
And now a lot of my anxiety is just... gone. She'll only be 11 days into her protection when school starts, but that will grow and grow.
Before I made the decision to go rogue, we'd been considering another year of virtual school. I don't want to know what that would've done to my kid. Now, I don't have to.
posted by gurple at 9:58 PM on August 25, 2021 [16 favorites]
But back then, I thought, maybe the 5-to-11 EUA will come in time. Or maybe approval for adults will come in time, and our pediatrician will prescribe off-label, and we can find somewhere to fill it. Or maybe or maybe.
No. Our pediatrician and our pulmonologist were powerless to help us. With their blessing and nothing else, I coached my kid about the lies she might need to tell. Pretend to be shy; let me do the talking. You were born in 2009.
In the end, only I had to lie, and not to anyone's face.
And now a lot of my anxiety is just... gone. She'll only be 11 days into her protection when school starts, but that will grow and grow.
Before I made the decision to go rogue, we'd been considering another year of virtual school. I don't want to know what that would've done to my kid. Now, I don't have to.
posted by gurple at 9:58 PM on August 25, 2021 [16 favorites]
Father of three here, with one child on the spectrum, in MA, which is one of the most Covid-cautious corners of the country, and I am not okay.
First some good sides to what's gone on: my children have had the run of the neighborhood, with the local consensus that they can do anything outdoors together. The neighborhood children have been forced by circumstances to play in age-diverse groups, and that has turned out to be a blessing. With the pecking order pre-established by age, the children bicker far less than I recall my age-matched friends back in the day. And socialization has gone okay.
My eldest is home schools. She's 9. She'll be okay. #2 is autistic, barely verbal, has had his access to services interrupted by the pandemic, and that will remain a lifelong source of rage for me. I have been working from home, and my wif and I shared the duty of stopping him from bolting. This means my workday is a half shift some time between 9 to 5, and another shift at night. THat's taken a physical toll on me and I am not okay. The youngest is 4.
XKCD pointed out that our Covid-related decisions can be regarded as a dial from reckless to cautious. There are umpteen gradations that you can tune the dial too. But the feedback from your decision is far blunter: either you get Covid or you don't. And until you do, you're forever wondering if you were too cautious or barely cautious enough. So thank you sciatrix et all for the serious look at the psychology behind the bad decision making that we've been witnessing in this context.
Ok, I rambled enough. Bed time.
posted by ocschwar at 10:19 PM on August 25, 2021 [14 favorites]
First some good sides to what's gone on: my children have had the run of the neighborhood, with the local consensus that they can do anything outdoors together. The neighborhood children have been forced by circumstances to play in age-diverse groups, and that has turned out to be a blessing. With the pecking order pre-established by age, the children bicker far less than I recall my age-matched friends back in the day. And socialization has gone okay.
My eldest is home schools. She's 9. She'll be okay. #2 is autistic, barely verbal, has had his access to services interrupted by the pandemic, and that will remain a lifelong source of rage for me. I have been working from home, and my wif and I shared the duty of stopping him from bolting. This means my workday is a half shift some time between 9 to 5, and another shift at night. THat's taken a physical toll on me and I am not okay. The youngest is 4.
XKCD pointed out that our Covid-related decisions can be regarded as a dial from reckless to cautious. There are umpteen gradations that you can tune the dial too. But the feedback from your decision is far blunter: either you get Covid or you don't. And until you do, you're forever wondering if you were too cautious or barely cautious enough. So thank you sciatrix et all for the serious look at the psychology behind the bad decision making that we've been witnessing in this context.
Ok, I rambled enough. Bed time.
posted by ocschwar at 10:19 PM on August 25, 2021 [14 favorites]
YOU ABSOLUTE COATHANGER
Sorry to derail (no kids here) but this is a fantastic insult and I may steal it.
Somewhat on-topic I read an article - maybe last year - about teachers who were doing both classroom and virtual education and were stretched to their absolute limits. There are fewer and fewer students who want to become teachers and nurses because of the pandemic: the stress levels, the low pay and the very real possibility that they may get COVID. Along with the challenges this year-and-a-half has presented for kids in school the future of effective education and healthcare seem more and more bleak.
posted by bendy at 11:15 PM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sorry to derail (no kids here) but this is a fantastic insult and I may steal it.
Somewhat on-topic I read an article - maybe last year - about teachers who were doing both classroom and virtual education and were stretched to their absolute limits. There are fewer and fewer students who want to become teachers and nurses because of the pandemic: the stress levels, the low pay and the very real possibility that they may get COVID. Along with the challenges this year-and-a-half has presented for kids in school the future of effective education and healthcare seem more and more bleak.
posted by bendy at 11:15 PM on August 25, 2021 [2 favorites]
To avoid abusing the edit window:
There's a lot of talk about kids not performing at their grade level with an effect that I don't completely understand. Please explain how I'm wrong: haven't all kids been in basically the same boat and expected to have similar deficits in their skills?
It seems to me that another long-term effect of the pandemic will be some kind of adjustment in skills? Some lower bar for academic achievements across the board? I'm not seeing an Idiocracy-type future, but one that will adapt to differently skilled jobs and different circumstances that we can't even predict now.
Not surprisingly, BIPOC kids whose parents can't stay home and give them the attention they need for their online schooling will probably end up with fewer opportunities and the race and wealth-equity divide in the US will become wider and wider.
posted by bendy at 11:32 PM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's a lot of talk about kids not performing at their grade level with an effect that I don't completely understand. Please explain how I'm wrong: haven't all kids been in basically the same boat and expected to have similar deficits in their skills?
It seems to me that another long-term effect of the pandemic will be some kind of adjustment in skills? Some lower bar for academic achievements across the board? I'm not seeing an Idiocracy-type future, but one that will adapt to differently skilled jobs and different circumstances that we can't even predict now.
Not surprisingly, BIPOC kids whose parents can't stay home and give them the attention they need for their online schooling will probably end up with fewer opportunities and the race and wealth-equity divide in the US will become wider and wider.
posted by bendy at 11:32 PM on August 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
My COVID parenting has reached peak inconsistency, Slate
non-paywall/non-subscribe link.
posted by bendy at 11:47 PM on August 25, 2021
non-paywall/non-subscribe link.
posted by bendy at 11:47 PM on August 25, 2021
We moved to a new neighborhood on March 1, 2020. We still hardly know anyone else. Our two kids attended preschool for less than two weeks and then the world shut down. They have each other and they are the best of friends (5 and 6), but they have no friends outside of our house. They've had so little social interaction that I'm deeply worried it's stunting them. The six year old made one friend in kindergarten, who subsequently moved, and we're back to square zero. I hate this. We've been so careful about COVID, but we can't do this indefinitely. I live in a relatively sane place, and even though I think the plan to go back to school in the presence of Delta is stupid, my kids need socialization so badly.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:02 AM on August 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:02 AM on August 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
In the UK, schools opened in March in a similar environment (Delta variant and partial vaccination coverage). In the CoronavirusUK subreddit there was a huge amount of fear and anxiety over it: lots of people were posting predicting disaster.
In the end though, it worked out OK. As Chris Whitty said, children are not immune to COVID but they are at much less risk, even from the Delta variant.
The risks are not zero. But the risks don't seem to be huge. My seven-year-old son was overjoyed to be back at school and see his friends again.
COVID isn't going to disappear completely. It's probably going to become something like the flu: i.e. kills a lot of people every year and is constantly mutating into new forms of different virulence, but doesn't completely overwhelm healthcare systems.
At some point you have to choose to accept both the risk, and the uncertainty in the risk. Scientists are never going to be able to tell you the risk is exactly X percent because mutations and behaviours are constantly changing, and their data is always months behind.
That's fundamentally a scary thing. No one with any sense is completely at ease with exposing their children to it. But as with other risks, as a parent at some point you just have to face the fear and get on with it.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:53 AM on August 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
In the end though, it worked out OK. As Chris Whitty said, children are not immune to COVID but they are at much less risk, even from the Delta variant.
The risks are not zero. But the risks don't seem to be huge. My seven-year-old son was overjoyed to be back at school and see his friends again.
COVID isn't going to disappear completely. It's probably going to become something like the flu: i.e. kills a lot of people every year and is constantly mutating into new forms of different virulence, but doesn't completely overwhelm healthcare systems.
At some point you have to choose to accept both the risk, and the uncertainty in the risk. Scientists are never going to be able to tell you the risk is exactly X percent because mutations and behaviours are constantly changing, and their data is always months behind.
That's fundamentally a scary thing. No one with any sense is completely at ease with exposing their children to it. But as with other risks, as a parent at some point you just have to face the fear and get on with it.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:53 AM on August 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
There's a lot of talk about kids not performing at their grade level with an effect that I don't completely understand. Please explain how I'm wrong: haven't all kids been in basically the same boat and expected to have similar deficits in their skills?
There have been pretty big differences in how different schools have handled remote learning, there are differences in how well equipped households are in terms of space/equipment and parental involvement to support it and on top of that different children have different abilities to learn that way.
Here in England there are state schools in affluent areas and private schools which ran essentially full remote school days for the entire period of closure, they could typically count on each child having a private space in which to work, a laptop or tablet of their own, and reliable internet. They can also count on or both parents being office workers who were working from home and can provide tech support, ensure that the children are actually showing up, and who can provide some degree of supervision (obviously depending on the the kid this can be more or less exhausting!). If you take kids who are suited to that learning style, they may lose no schooling time at all. Some high school aged kids probably thrived on it to be honest.
There are also schools which ran almost no remote programme - matter of debate on how much they could have done in certain circumstances - and who reported that they had pupils who never once turned up for an online lesson, completed no assigned work, and were completely out of contact for the entire period of closure. In many cases, these kids will have been behind the former kids in attainment even before the pandemic and have now missed between half and two thirds of a year of instruction. There will also have been kids who have all the infrastructure and support of the former but just don't do well in a remote environment. They will also have lost substantial learning time.
posted by atrazine at 2:28 AM on August 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
There have been pretty big differences in how different schools have handled remote learning, there are differences in how well equipped households are in terms of space/equipment and parental involvement to support it and on top of that different children have different abilities to learn that way.
Here in England there are state schools in affluent areas and private schools which ran essentially full remote school days for the entire period of closure, they could typically count on each child having a private space in which to work, a laptop or tablet of their own, and reliable internet. They can also count on or both parents being office workers who were working from home and can provide tech support, ensure that the children are actually showing up, and who can provide some degree of supervision (obviously depending on the the kid this can be more or less exhausting!). If you take kids who are suited to that learning style, they may lose no schooling time at all. Some high school aged kids probably thrived on it to be honest.
There are also schools which ran almost no remote programme - matter of debate on how much they could have done in certain circumstances - and who reported that they had pupils who never once turned up for an online lesson, completed no assigned work, and were completely out of contact for the entire period of closure. In many cases, these kids will have been behind the former kids in attainment even before the pandemic and have now missed between half and two thirds of a year of instruction. There will also have been kids who have all the infrastructure and support of the former but just don't do well in a remote environment. They will also have lost substantial learning time.
posted by atrazine at 2:28 AM on August 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Here in Hong Kong, so far, teachers, parents, carers and students are happily not dying of Covid, and masking is universal. So on the surface, all seems well: students are going to in-person lessons and parents are able to go to work. But schools are only meeting for part of the day right now, and it's not clear yet how the whole of a year's curriculum can be delivered in half-day sessions. Currently, the government says [PDF] that 70% of everyone at a school - students, staff, and teachers - must be fully vaccinated to allow the resumption of full-day teaching.
Given the following facts, it's hard to see us getting to that number anytime soon:
1) Tens of thousands of people coming to the city each month are exempt from quarantine (including, infuriatingly, Nicole Kidman) [RTHK, Cantonese/English video and English text]. Schools, therefore, remain on half-day schedules because of the risk of silent transmission in the community caused by the presence of these unquarantined inbound travellers and other travel-related folks (like the thousands of people who work at the airport and in the port) in town. This seems reasonable, but travel for everyday folks simply isn't possible without a cripplingly expensive and, for most people without much annual leave, employment-disqualifying 21-day hotel quarantine at your own expense after returning to the city from any overseas travel, even if you're vaccinated. (And actually, it turns out, vaccinated people are actually getting Covid in quarantine hotels [Dim Sum Daily, English text]. Of course, if you can travel somewhere without vaccination and return here with the same quarantine policies/duration a vaccinated person has to endure, why bother risking the shot?)
2) The government has said that re-opening schools for full-day classes can't happen until enough of the community is vaccinated despite there being no real local cases (not deaths, not hospitalisations: no local cases at all) for months, but the government has also said that herd immunity is unachievable [RTHK, English text]; given the lower efficacy of SinoVac and that vaccine's prevalence in the community, we'd need a vaccination rate of 142%. Yet SinoVac remains at least somewhat popular because China's foreign-ministry representative office here has indicated that it may only allow people vaccinated with Chinese-made vaccines into China; obviously the vast majority of people here are of Chinese descent, and cross-boundary traffic to the Mainland and Macau is the vast majority of travel here, so this policy has kept a lot of people from getting vaccinated with Comirnaty/Pfizer/BioNTech. The SinoVac vaccine has not been approved for folks under 18, so families are forced to either leave their teenager unvaccinated, or have them get the Comirnaty/Pfizer/BioNTech one, which has been approved for people 12 and up, but then risk the family not all being able to travel to China in the future for some unknowable time.
3) Stories like this one [Dim Sum Daily, English] remain part of the reportage here about vaccination and are preventing parents from encouraging their teens to get vaccinated. The headline, "4 new suspected myocarditis or pericarditis cases involving adolescents aged 12 to 15 and 4 new deaths after receiving COVID-19 vaccination", seems to indicate that there are four teenagers whose heart trouble led to their deaths after vaccination; instead, it was four much older men, ranging in age from 50 to 82, who passed away within fourteen days of vaccination, with no indication that the cause of death was related to vaccination at all. The vaccination rate here has been far too slow for a variety of reasons ["Hong Kong Is Dangling Incentives to Get Vaccinated. That May Not Be Enough.", New York Times, June 3], with the elderly population being the LEAST vaccinated [@webbhk (David Webb) on Twitter], despite the programme having been rolled out to that age group in February. Many parents of school-aged children here live in multi-generational households and rely on childcare from elderly relatives; you would think this would provoke a higher vaccination rate. But early on in the vaccination scheme, reports of side effects and deaths were really, really prominent in the media and people's primary-care doctors/GPs, perhaps fearful of liability, advised older residents with any chronic health issue at all, from high blood pressure to diabetes to allergies, to wait and see ["Hong Kong faces setback as fearful older residents refuse vaccines", Japan Times, August 6].
4) Only yesterday [HKSAR Government Press Release, August 25] did the government create a mechanism through which teens themselves don't need to book a vaccine appointment online and instead can get a same-day ticket for a vaccine early in the morning and then get the shot later in the day. However, teens still need a signed permission form from their parents, which is tricky if you don't have a printer or can't get the form somewhere else, or if your parents don't want you to get vaccinated at all. (A similar scheme for the elderly was launched a few weeks ago after comments were made by elderly folks without smartphones, computers or internet access at home that it was too difficult to book, and that they had no one to help them do so.)
All this (whew!) means despite us having very low levels of cases and happily very few deaths, Hong Kong isn't going to have normal-looking schooling any time soon. An alternative model is offered by Singapore, a place with which we share many similarities and which is much more vaccinated than we are:
"Behind the divergent approaches of Singapore and Hong Kong is a yawning gap in vaccination rates, especially among the elderly. Only 10 percent of people over the age of 80 in Hong Kong have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine; another wave of infections, particularly of the delta variant, could devastate this group. Overall, 73 percent of Singaporeans are fully vaccinated — among the world’s highest rates — versus 45 percent in Hong Kong. Both cities began vaccinations at about the same time and offer the shots free of charge." ["Singapore starts to reopen for travel, as ‘zero covid’ clips wings of rival Hong Kong", Washington Post, August 20]
Why is Singapore able to do this and Hong Kong isn't, the article asks?
"Officials in Singapore several months ago began priming people for the idea that they must live with the virus. Residents accustomed to low cases in the city-state would get jumpy over each new cluster, like one in May linked to the airport. Through op-eds from ministers and video campaigns featuring comedians and community leaders, the government sent a signal that the virus would be endemic and vaccination was the only way forward.
“All of this needs to be explained to the community,” said Dale Fisher, a senior consultant at the division of infectious diseases in Singapore’s National University Hospital. “Eventually you are going to have to let covid in, and as soon as you open borders and ease restrictions, covid will thrive.”
But, he added, “if we believe in the vaccine — which we do — then we don’t expect to see large numbers of severe disease.” [bolding mine]
And that, I think, is the crux of the problem in Hong Kong: public trust in the vaccine never took off here, and now students face months or years of additional disruption to their education.
posted by mdonley at 3:16 AM on August 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
Given the following facts, it's hard to see us getting to that number anytime soon:
1) Tens of thousands of people coming to the city each month are exempt from quarantine (including, infuriatingly, Nicole Kidman) [RTHK, Cantonese/English video and English text]. Schools, therefore, remain on half-day schedules because of the risk of silent transmission in the community caused by the presence of these unquarantined inbound travellers and other travel-related folks (like the thousands of people who work at the airport and in the port) in town. This seems reasonable, but travel for everyday folks simply isn't possible without a cripplingly expensive and, for most people without much annual leave, employment-disqualifying 21-day hotel quarantine at your own expense after returning to the city from any overseas travel, even if you're vaccinated. (And actually, it turns out, vaccinated people are actually getting Covid in quarantine hotels [Dim Sum Daily, English text]. Of course, if you can travel somewhere without vaccination and return here with the same quarantine policies/duration a vaccinated person has to endure, why bother risking the shot?)
2) The government has said that re-opening schools for full-day classes can't happen until enough of the community is vaccinated despite there being no real local cases (not deaths, not hospitalisations: no local cases at all) for months, but the government has also said that herd immunity is unachievable [RTHK, English text]; given the lower efficacy of SinoVac and that vaccine's prevalence in the community, we'd need a vaccination rate of 142%. Yet SinoVac remains at least somewhat popular because China's foreign-ministry representative office here has indicated that it may only allow people vaccinated with Chinese-made vaccines into China; obviously the vast majority of people here are of Chinese descent, and cross-boundary traffic to the Mainland and Macau is the vast majority of travel here, so this policy has kept a lot of people from getting vaccinated with Comirnaty/Pfizer/BioNTech. The SinoVac vaccine has not been approved for folks under 18, so families are forced to either leave their teenager unvaccinated, or have them get the Comirnaty/Pfizer/BioNTech one, which has been approved for people 12 and up, but then risk the family not all being able to travel to China in the future for some unknowable time.
3) Stories like this one [Dim Sum Daily, English] remain part of the reportage here about vaccination and are preventing parents from encouraging their teens to get vaccinated. The headline, "4 new suspected myocarditis or pericarditis cases involving adolescents aged 12 to 15 and 4 new deaths after receiving COVID-19 vaccination", seems to indicate that there are four teenagers whose heart trouble led to their deaths after vaccination; instead, it was four much older men, ranging in age from 50 to 82, who passed away within fourteen days of vaccination, with no indication that the cause of death was related to vaccination at all. The vaccination rate here has been far too slow for a variety of reasons ["Hong Kong Is Dangling Incentives to Get Vaccinated. That May Not Be Enough.", New York Times, June 3], with the elderly population being the LEAST vaccinated [@webbhk (David Webb) on Twitter], despite the programme having been rolled out to that age group in February. Many parents of school-aged children here live in multi-generational households and rely on childcare from elderly relatives; you would think this would provoke a higher vaccination rate. But early on in the vaccination scheme, reports of side effects and deaths were really, really prominent in the media and people's primary-care doctors/GPs, perhaps fearful of liability, advised older residents with any chronic health issue at all, from high blood pressure to diabetes to allergies, to wait and see ["Hong Kong faces setback as fearful older residents refuse vaccines", Japan Times, August 6].
4) Only yesterday [HKSAR Government Press Release, August 25] did the government create a mechanism through which teens themselves don't need to book a vaccine appointment online and instead can get a same-day ticket for a vaccine early in the morning and then get the shot later in the day. However, teens still need a signed permission form from their parents, which is tricky if you don't have a printer or can't get the form somewhere else, or if your parents don't want you to get vaccinated at all. (A similar scheme for the elderly was launched a few weeks ago after comments were made by elderly folks without smartphones, computers or internet access at home that it was too difficult to book, and that they had no one to help them do so.)
All this (whew!) means despite us having very low levels of cases and happily very few deaths, Hong Kong isn't going to have normal-looking schooling any time soon. An alternative model is offered by Singapore, a place with which we share many similarities and which is much more vaccinated than we are:
"Behind the divergent approaches of Singapore and Hong Kong is a yawning gap in vaccination rates, especially among the elderly. Only 10 percent of people over the age of 80 in Hong Kong have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine; another wave of infections, particularly of the delta variant, could devastate this group. Overall, 73 percent of Singaporeans are fully vaccinated — among the world’s highest rates — versus 45 percent in Hong Kong. Both cities began vaccinations at about the same time and offer the shots free of charge." ["Singapore starts to reopen for travel, as ‘zero covid’ clips wings of rival Hong Kong", Washington Post, August 20]
Why is Singapore able to do this and Hong Kong isn't, the article asks?
"Officials in Singapore several months ago began priming people for the idea that they must live with the virus. Residents accustomed to low cases in the city-state would get jumpy over each new cluster, like one in May linked to the airport. Through op-eds from ministers and video campaigns featuring comedians and community leaders, the government sent a signal that the virus would be endemic and vaccination was the only way forward.
“All of this needs to be explained to the community,” said Dale Fisher, a senior consultant at the division of infectious diseases in Singapore’s National University Hospital. “Eventually you are going to have to let covid in, and as soon as you open borders and ease restrictions, covid will thrive.”
But, he added, “if we believe in the vaccine — which we do — then we don’t expect to see large numbers of severe disease.” [bolding mine]
And that, I think, is the crux of the problem in Hong Kong: public trust in the vaccine never took off here, and now students face months or years of additional disruption to their education.
posted by mdonley at 3:16 AM on August 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
The other thing about kids not performing at grade level is that expectations for what kids can do in each grade are not defined year to year by what the local kids in any given grade are doing, but are defined over a longer period of time by what kids in each age and grade are usually able to do given what education has been doing in, say, the last decade. And our metrics for what we expect out of kids at any given age are not adjustable for "given two years of wildly variable education, compounded collective trauma, and an experience of the pandemic itself that is incredibly varied based heavily on socioeconomic status and regional policy."
Figuring out what COVID has done to the skill expectations that we can apply to various grade levels will be the work of years or more likely decades. In the meantime, "grade level" is pretty much entirely based on pre COVID data and pre COVID kids. It's not surprising that kids are struggling, and educators are going to have to be playing a certain amount of catch up and foundation building for a very long time.
Just in my experience: there is a second year graduate student in my new lab in the psych department I have been working closely with. The semester that COVID hit happened to be their only undergrad biochemistry course before they graduated, and their major didn't require a lot of molecular biology generally. I was explaining to them how PCR works on a nuts and bolts level, and they were understandably embarrassed to not have been able to follow along--because they were missing an enormous amount of the groundwork that would have let them follow quickly and easily what I was doing, and the relative isolation of COVID hadn't given them a way to pick up any of that knowledge.
Holes like that--"COVID happened when I had fractions", "I couldn't self teach multiplication tables in a way I understood," "the online school wasn't well prepared to handle onatomatopoeia" or whatever, those educational holes are going to need backfilling in at higher levels of education later on. The educational system was already criminally variable in terms of the quality of education and the level of support to learn that children in various places had access to; now that variability has been exponentially increased, meaning that it is either going to be much more difficult for the unlucky to navigate higher learning levels as they move forward or that instructors are going to have to do a lot of extra work catching unlucky students up on the fly, and probably both.
I expect that the moment that a quorum of the most asinine school board/state legislature/federal legislature members decide the pandemic is over teachers will be punished for not getting students performing at pre-COVID levels, too. There's a reason I don't work at the K12 level despite both enjoying teaching and being good at it, and that reason is that I watched the level of abuse heaped on teachers who are starved of resources and handed increasing responsibility and I won't do it. That was before COVID. I have even less than zero faith now that this country values education enough to devote anything other than cheap chiding lectures to instructors to helping students recover from the collective stresses and fill in their education. I have quite a bit of faith, in fact, that the collective response will be to demand more effort that is supposed to be extracted from an ever drying well of love and duty that, theoretically, does not need replenishment.
I hate being this cynical.
posted by sciatrix at 5:30 AM on August 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
Figuring out what COVID has done to the skill expectations that we can apply to various grade levels will be the work of years or more likely decades. In the meantime, "grade level" is pretty much entirely based on pre COVID data and pre COVID kids. It's not surprising that kids are struggling, and educators are going to have to be playing a certain amount of catch up and foundation building for a very long time.
Just in my experience: there is a second year graduate student in my new lab in the psych department I have been working closely with. The semester that COVID hit happened to be their only undergrad biochemistry course before they graduated, and their major didn't require a lot of molecular biology generally. I was explaining to them how PCR works on a nuts and bolts level, and they were understandably embarrassed to not have been able to follow along--because they were missing an enormous amount of the groundwork that would have let them follow quickly and easily what I was doing, and the relative isolation of COVID hadn't given them a way to pick up any of that knowledge.
Holes like that--"COVID happened when I had fractions", "I couldn't self teach multiplication tables in a way I understood," "the online school wasn't well prepared to handle onatomatopoeia" or whatever, those educational holes are going to need backfilling in at higher levels of education later on. The educational system was already criminally variable in terms of the quality of education and the level of support to learn that children in various places had access to; now that variability has been exponentially increased, meaning that it is either going to be much more difficult for the unlucky to navigate higher learning levels as they move forward or that instructors are going to have to do a lot of extra work catching unlucky students up on the fly, and probably both.
I expect that the moment that a quorum of the most asinine school board/state legislature/federal legislature members decide the pandemic is over teachers will be punished for not getting students performing at pre-COVID levels, too. There's a reason I don't work at the K12 level despite both enjoying teaching and being good at it, and that reason is that I watched the level of abuse heaped on teachers who are starved of resources and handed increasing responsibility and I won't do it. That was before COVID. I have even less than zero faith now that this country values education enough to devote anything other than cheap chiding lectures to instructors to helping students recover from the collective stresses and fill in their education. I have quite a bit of faith, in fact, that the collective response will be to demand more effort that is supposed to be extracted from an ever drying well of love and duty that, theoretically, does not need replenishment.
I hate being this cynical.
posted by sciatrix at 5:30 AM on August 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
"Please explain how I'm wrong: haven't all kids been in basically the same boat and expected to have similar deficits in their skills?"
People have provided some great info above; I'll just give an anecdote. We moved from one of the worst-resourced public school districts in Illinois (downstate) to one of the best-resourced districts (suburban) when my husband changed jobs. And we felt like our kids were getting a good education in the underresourced district, and we were sorry to leave it -- but the differences during Covid were like NIGHT AND DAY.
The day they decided to close schools in the well-resourced district, they sent every kid home with an iPad (a flurry of work by IT got all the school iPads ready to go home in under 48 hours), took Monday off for teachers to prepare for online learning, and were online Tuesday. And last spring it was in fits and starts for sure. But they immediately convened a group of their teachers and curriculum specialists to start figuring out what was and wasn't working for online teaching, to try some different experiments, and to research and vet technology going forward. Over the summer, they provided comprehensive training for all district staff on remote learning and remote teaching, and paid overtime for grade-level committees of teachers to overhaul the curriculum to work remotely. Every two weeks during the 2020-2021 school year, we'd go over to the school and, on outdoor tables staffed by volunteer parents (six feet back), we'd pick up supplies for our kids -- art supplies, worksheets, leveled readers, library books, handouts. This year, as noted, the schools have enough space and staff to shrink class sizes and observe social distancing in every classroom, and enough free cash to hire outdoor tents. They've brought on extra social workers, anticipating kids needing extra intervention and support after 18 months of pandemic life.
In the underresourced district, the children went home. The district's priority was figuring out how to ensure that those children -- a large majority of whom are food-insecure and receive free federal breakfast and lunch -- would continue to receive their meals. Only AFTER that did they start worrying about delivering lessons, which happened in fits and starts. Some students did not have access to any internet-enabled device. The district does not own enough textbooks for all students; they were generally kept in the classrooms and shared. The district could not afford consumable workbooks, so those didn't exist. It runs out of copy/printer paper, yearly, in January. So there were not really any resources available to provide lessons to the kids at home. Teachers used their own devices, with limited technology support. (Hardest-working IT team in the business, but there weren't enough of them to start with, let alone to support a sudden transition to remote learning in a global pandemic.) The under-resourced districted limped alone through 2020-2021 using a half-and-half system, where half the kids would come Monday/Tuesday; they'd clean the schools on Wednesday; and the other half would come Thursday/Friday. The schools, which were direly overcrowded, were still too crowded for adequate social distancing, but it was something. (And the community has repeatedly, since the year 2000, rejected (modest, affordable) referenda that would pay to modernize the HVAC in the schools -- most don't have air conditioning except in the computer lab -- so the air's REAL BAD.) The teachers, expected to teach both in-person AND remote, every single day, got no extra support. An number of children were pulled out by parents because they weren't learning anything, to be sent to Catholic schools or home schooled by parents who could afford those things. Another group of children simply vanished -- there's a lot of housing insecurity, and low-wage workers in the area mostly work at the hospitals. Some sent their kids to live with relatives out of fear of infecting and killing them; some lost their housing and disappeared; some we probably won't ever know.
Even just looking at a more apples-to-apples comparison of other white-collar professionals (mostly lawyers, I know a lot of lawyers), our friends in the downstate district just had very little content in school last year. They all have high-speed internet at home; had or could acquire personal devices for the kids to use; parents with college degrees; native English speakers; mostly two-parent families with two incomes with jobs that could be done remotely; mostly own their houses and have plenty of space for the kids to have their own rooms and desks. But the schools were struggling to function at all, and teaching was haphazard. I know my kids had learning loss (the end of the 2019-2020 school year was an almost total loss, except for when my third grader explained syphilis to his class, including that it's sexually transmitted and you get boils on your penis, SO GREAT, I'm THAT parent, this is FINE), and I know that 2020-2021 (the remote year) will end up with some weird gaps here and there. But they covered the whole math curriculum (easiest to measure objectively) and got most of the typical social studies and English curricula done. I feel like science suffered the most -- hard to do hands-on stuff -- and music (this district is very proud of its music curriculum and all-in on it as part of the daily curriculum).
And that's just talking about kids whose middle-class or upper-middle-class parents were in a good position to support remote learning (money, space, devices, remote-capable jobs, English-language abilities, tech literate) and could do at least some work to fill in the gaps themselves. The differences between those kids and low-income kids whose access to education was almost entirely cut off last year is going to be a LOT starker.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:05 AM on August 26, 2021 [17 favorites]
People have provided some great info above; I'll just give an anecdote. We moved from one of the worst-resourced public school districts in Illinois (downstate) to one of the best-resourced districts (suburban) when my husband changed jobs. And we felt like our kids were getting a good education in the underresourced district, and we were sorry to leave it -- but the differences during Covid were like NIGHT AND DAY.
The day they decided to close schools in the well-resourced district, they sent every kid home with an iPad (a flurry of work by IT got all the school iPads ready to go home in under 48 hours), took Monday off for teachers to prepare for online learning, and were online Tuesday. And last spring it was in fits and starts for sure. But they immediately convened a group of their teachers and curriculum specialists to start figuring out what was and wasn't working for online teaching, to try some different experiments, and to research and vet technology going forward. Over the summer, they provided comprehensive training for all district staff on remote learning and remote teaching, and paid overtime for grade-level committees of teachers to overhaul the curriculum to work remotely. Every two weeks during the 2020-2021 school year, we'd go over to the school and, on outdoor tables staffed by volunteer parents (six feet back), we'd pick up supplies for our kids -- art supplies, worksheets, leveled readers, library books, handouts. This year, as noted, the schools have enough space and staff to shrink class sizes and observe social distancing in every classroom, and enough free cash to hire outdoor tents. They've brought on extra social workers, anticipating kids needing extra intervention and support after 18 months of pandemic life.
In the underresourced district, the children went home. The district's priority was figuring out how to ensure that those children -- a large majority of whom are food-insecure and receive free federal breakfast and lunch -- would continue to receive their meals. Only AFTER that did they start worrying about delivering lessons, which happened in fits and starts. Some students did not have access to any internet-enabled device. The district does not own enough textbooks for all students; they were generally kept in the classrooms and shared. The district could not afford consumable workbooks, so those didn't exist. It runs out of copy/printer paper, yearly, in January. So there were not really any resources available to provide lessons to the kids at home. Teachers used their own devices, with limited technology support. (Hardest-working IT team in the business, but there weren't enough of them to start with, let alone to support a sudden transition to remote learning in a global pandemic.) The under-resourced districted limped alone through 2020-2021 using a half-and-half system, where half the kids would come Monday/Tuesday; they'd clean the schools on Wednesday; and the other half would come Thursday/Friday. The schools, which were direly overcrowded, were still too crowded for adequate social distancing, but it was something. (And the community has repeatedly, since the year 2000, rejected (modest, affordable) referenda that would pay to modernize the HVAC in the schools -- most don't have air conditioning except in the computer lab -- so the air's REAL BAD.) The teachers, expected to teach both in-person AND remote, every single day, got no extra support. An number of children were pulled out by parents because they weren't learning anything, to be sent to Catholic schools or home schooled by parents who could afford those things. Another group of children simply vanished -- there's a lot of housing insecurity, and low-wage workers in the area mostly work at the hospitals. Some sent their kids to live with relatives out of fear of infecting and killing them; some lost their housing and disappeared; some we probably won't ever know.
Even just looking at a more apples-to-apples comparison of other white-collar professionals (mostly lawyers, I know a lot of lawyers), our friends in the downstate district just had very little content in school last year. They all have high-speed internet at home; had or could acquire personal devices for the kids to use; parents with college degrees; native English speakers; mostly two-parent families with two incomes with jobs that could be done remotely; mostly own their houses and have plenty of space for the kids to have their own rooms and desks. But the schools were struggling to function at all, and teaching was haphazard. I know my kids had learning loss (the end of the 2019-2020 school year was an almost total loss, except for when my third grader explained syphilis to his class, including that it's sexually transmitted and you get boils on your penis, SO GREAT, I'm THAT parent, this is FINE), and I know that 2020-2021 (the remote year) will end up with some weird gaps here and there. But they covered the whole math curriculum (easiest to measure objectively) and got most of the typical social studies and English curricula done. I feel like science suffered the most -- hard to do hands-on stuff -- and music (this district is very proud of its music curriculum and all-in on it as part of the daily curriculum).
And that's just talking about kids whose middle-class or upper-middle-class parents were in a good position to support remote learning (money, space, devices, remote-capable jobs, English-language abilities, tech literate) and could do at least some work to fill in the gaps themselves. The differences between those kids and low-income kids whose access to education was almost entirely cut off last year is going to be a LOT starker.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:05 AM on August 26, 2021 [17 favorites]
I’ll have more responses later but following up with sciatrix:
The other thing about kids not performing at grade level is that expectations for what kids can do in each grade are not defined year to year by what the local kids in any given grade are doing, but are defined over a longer period of time by what kids in each age and grade are usually able to do
I get this. In public school in Arkansas I skipped first and second grade and from grade 3 to grade 6 I was two years younger than other kids in my class.
When I was ten and we moved, I started seventh grade in a Nebraska public school but quickly started to fail and within a few weeks went back to elementary school and repeated fifth and sixth grade.
Scrolling up to Eyebrows’ new comment… that’s another great example. Inequity in quality of education from district to district and even school to school has always been indicative of “skill level”. My feeling is that it stands to reason that sure, every kid is taking a hit in their 2020 school year, but the proportions of that hit will be right along the line of the previous inequalities.
Cynically, I think we’re hearing so much about this pandemic-related “decrease in skills” because it’s now affecting white kids in the suburbs.
posted by bendy at 9:25 AM on August 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
The other thing about kids not performing at grade level is that expectations for what kids can do in each grade are not defined year to year by what the local kids in any given grade are doing, but are defined over a longer period of time by what kids in each age and grade are usually able to do
I get this. In public school in Arkansas I skipped first and second grade and from grade 3 to grade 6 I was two years younger than other kids in my class.
When I was ten and we moved, I started seventh grade in a Nebraska public school but quickly started to fail and within a few weeks went back to elementary school and repeated fifth and sixth grade.
Scrolling up to Eyebrows’ new comment… that’s another great example. Inequity in quality of education from district to district and even school to school has always been indicative of “skill level”. My feeling is that it stands to reason that sure, every kid is taking a hit in their 2020 school year, but the proportions of that hit will be right along the line of the previous inequalities.
Cynically, I think we’re hearing so much about this pandemic-related “decrease in skills” because it’s now affecting white kids in the suburbs.
posted by bendy at 9:25 AM on August 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Cynically, I think we’re hearing so much about this pandemic-related “decrease in skills” because it’s now affecting white kids in the suburbs.
Realism often gets mislabeled as cynicism.
posted by Quasirandom at 3:39 PM on August 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Realism often gets mislabeled as cynicism.
posted by Quasirandom at 3:39 PM on August 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
I just assumed a lot of kids would be repeating a grade, and it would just be one of those things people remembered about growing up in the 20’s.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:00 PM on August 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:00 PM on August 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I just assumed a lot of kids would be repeating a grade, and it would just be one of those things people remembered about growing up in the 20’s.
I've been thinking that too. In a lot of ways I feel that we should just write off the year 2020 and forget it ever happened. Now it looks like we're going to have to do the same for a portion of 2021.
posted by bendy at 6:28 PM on August 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I've been thinking that too. In a lot of ways I feel that we should just write off the year 2020 and forget it ever happened. Now it looks like we're going to have to do the same for a portion of 2021.
posted by bendy at 6:28 PM on August 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
it looks like we're going to have to do the same for a portion of 2021.
I admire your optimism.
[...pardon me while I stare blankly at lukewarm beer for a mildly alarming length of time...]
posted by aramaic at 6:58 PM on August 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I admire your optimism.
[...pardon me while I stare blankly at lukewarm beer for a mildly alarming length of time...]
posted by aramaic at 6:58 PM on August 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I admire your optimism.
Well, before Delta we had a few weeks of calm...
My beer is also lukewarm.
posted by bendy at 7:07 PM on August 26, 2021
Well, before Delta we had a few weeks of calm...
My beer is also lukewarm.
posted by bendy at 7:07 PM on August 26, 2021
My twin nephews are three and change. I've wondered if there will be any lasting differences from greater isolation in early development and socialization in their age cohort. Having twins has been an extra challenge for my sister and BIL under these conditions, but I'm grateful they have had each other to interact with.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:42 AM on August 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:42 AM on August 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I just assumed a lot of kids would be repeating a grade, and it would just be one of those things people remembered about growing up in the 20’s.
I assumed there would be a lot of social promotion, so more kids than usual would not have the stigma of failing. My kid did absolutely horrible with distance learning and had so many incomplete/not turned in assignments in at least one class that there is no way they passed. Yet, the school knew how smart they were and told us they passed by 1%.
I don't see that as them doing any favors for my kid, as far as this school year goes. But, it sure made our lives a lot easier over the summer.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 1:11 PM on August 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I assumed there would be a lot of social promotion, so more kids than usual would not have the stigma of failing. My kid did absolutely horrible with distance learning and had so many incomplete/not turned in assignments in at least one class that there is no way they passed. Yet, the school knew how smart they were and told us they passed by 1%.
I don't see that as them doing any favors for my kid, as far as this school year goes. But, it sure made our lives a lot easier over the summer.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 1:11 PM on August 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't see that as them doing any favors for my kid, as far as this school year goes.
Turning that around, in a classroom environment would a kid who was horrible with classroom learning but was known to be smart also be passed?
I'm really not trying to be critical in this thread and I have absolutely no skin in the game, but reading a ton of articles isn't as informative as people's actual experiences.
posted by bendy at 6:43 PM on August 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Turning that around, in a classroom environment would a kid who was horrible with classroom learning but was known to be smart also be passed?
I'm really not trying to be critical in this thread and I have absolutely no skin in the game, but reading a ton of articles isn't as informative as people's actual experiences.
posted by bendy at 6:43 PM on August 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm really not trying to be critical in this thread and I have absolutely no skin in the game, but reading a ton of articles isn't as informative as people's actual experiences.
Same here. I used to work in education, but I don’t have children of my own, and I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about what the heck I would do if I did have kids in school, if whatever plan their school implemented wasn’t working for them, and if full-on homeschooling wasn’t an option for whatever reason. It’s been a real roller-coaster reading about the experiences of the parents and children I know.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:37 PM on August 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Same here. I used to work in education, but I don’t have children of my own, and I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about what the heck I would do if I did have kids in school, if whatever plan their school implemented wasn’t working for them, and if full-on homeschooling wasn’t an option for whatever reason. It’s been a real roller-coaster reading about the experiences of the parents and children I know.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:37 PM on August 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Another idea from a person with no relevant experience with children or with online learning...
Would it be viable for parents to get the lesson plans or goals of a grade levels' expectations for students and let them learn those expectations by a method that works best for them? If a kid thrives on online education then let them do that. If a kid doesn't thrive on online education would it be possible for them to skip their class' online instruction and use a method that's effective for them?
Obviously there's still a necessary commitment by parents and/or relatives, but would working with the kids using a method that the parent knows is effective for their learning mitigate some of the stress and wasted time incurred in trying to make kids learn by a method that absolutely doesn't work for them?
A kid who learns best by reading books would be free to read books. A younger kid who likes in-person instruction with simple math might learn better eschewing online learning and working with a parent for a period of time a day.
I'm spitballing here, not trying to be arrogant while ignorant, just curious.
posted by bendy at 4:17 PM on August 29, 2021
Would it be viable for parents to get the lesson plans or goals of a grade levels' expectations for students and let them learn those expectations by a method that works best for them? If a kid thrives on online education then let them do that. If a kid doesn't thrive on online education would it be possible for them to skip their class' online instruction and use a method that's effective for them?
Obviously there's still a necessary commitment by parents and/or relatives, but would working with the kids using a method that the parent knows is effective for their learning mitigate some of the stress and wasted time incurred in trying to make kids learn by a method that absolutely doesn't work for them?
A kid who learns best by reading books would be free to read books. A younger kid who likes in-person instruction with simple math might learn better eschewing online learning and working with a parent for a period of time a day.
I'm spitballing here, not trying to be arrogant while ignorant, just curious.
posted by bendy at 4:17 PM on August 29, 2021
bendy, one problem with what you mentioned is that not all parents have the time or ability to manage a kid’s learning. Many/most young elementary kids need some amount of supervision to stay on track, which just isn’t possible unless the parent has hours and hours every day to devote to it. Kids of any age may learn best in person, but not from their parents (my 5yo listens better to her teachers than me for sure). Parents of older kids and teens may not know the material the kids are supposed to learn.
My local school district has an option that’s similar to what you describe - there’s no synchronous portion, it’s all independent study. It definitely works for some kids/ families. And in places where that isn’t offered, homeschooling is always an option if the parents have the knowledge and time to devote to making that work. But having the parents manage teaching and learning doesn’t work for many, many families.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:48 PM on August 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
My local school district has an option that’s similar to what you describe - there’s no synchronous portion, it’s all independent study. It definitely works for some kids/ families. And in places where that isn’t offered, homeschooling is always an option if the parents have the knowledge and time to devote to making that work. But having the parents manage teaching and learning doesn’t work for many, many families.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:48 PM on August 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm not a parent, but if there are two things the past 18 months have made plain it's the extent to which all of us are considered grist for the mill of capitalism by the powers that be, and the lengths to which millions of people will go to defend their right to be that grist.
My daughter, now 20, is extremely observant and bright, and has come out of several hospitalizations for mental illness/mood disorders with the observation that mental health treatment is strongly aimed at making a person take up their role in capitalism. One night she whispered to me (she had to whisper because there are no private phones in these places), "I am literally the only person in here who understands that it will be just fine if I never get a job."
One wishes sometimes that she would be a sheeple—we've been struggling for years with non-compliance with treatment—but then, she would be who she is, would she?
posted by Orlop at 7:37 AM on August 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
My daughter, now 20, is extremely observant and bright, and has come out of several hospitalizations for mental illness/mood disorders with the observation that mental health treatment is strongly aimed at making a person take up their role in capitalism. One night she whispered to me (she had to whisper because there are no private phones in these places), "I am literally the only person in here who understands that it will be just fine if I never get a job."
One wishes sometimes that she would be a sheeple—we've been struggling for years with non-compliance with treatment—but then, she would be who she is, would she?
posted by Orlop at 7:37 AM on August 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Turning that around, in a classroom environment would a kid who was horrible with classroom learning but was known to be smart also be passed?
At their particular school, I doubt it. OTOH, there would have been many more opportunities for the teachers to meet with us and make sure our kid didn't get so far behind. I certainly think our kid is starting this year behind the 8 ball, somewhat, as they will have a lot of catching up to do. I am conflicted on what they chose to do, but am having trouble articulating why.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:57 AM on August 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
At their particular school, I doubt it. OTOH, there would have been many more opportunities for the teachers to meet with us and make sure our kid didn't get so far behind. I certainly think our kid is starting this year behind the 8 ball, somewhat, as they will have a lot of catching up to do. I am conflicted on what they chose to do, but am having trouble articulating why.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 7:57 AM on August 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
bendy, one problem with what you mentioned is that not all parents have the time or ability to manage a kid’s learning. Many/most young elementary kids need some amount of supervision to stay on track, which just isn’t possible unless the parent has hours and hours every day to devote to it. Kids of any age may learn best in person, but not from their parents (my 5yo listens better to her teachers than me for sure). Parents of older kids and teens may not know the material the kids are supposed to learn.
I totally get that. I'm speaking in really general terms. But from what I've read, parents are already spending hours and hours getting their kids to engage with online learning. And again, different kids learn in different ways - since your 5yo listens best to her teachers than interacting with you, online learning may be her best path. But I think there should be a mechanism where kids who don't learn well from online classes or videos can still succeed.
(As an adult if someone directs me to a YT video or if I'm supposed to take a class based on video lessons I just don't have the patience or the attention span to do it. I'm always looking for different ways to learn what I need to learn.)
As always, please help me understand.
posted by bendy at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2021
I totally get that. I'm speaking in really general terms. But from what I've read, parents are already spending hours and hours getting their kids to engage with online learning. And again, different kids learn in different ways - since your 5yo listens best to her teachers than interacting with you, online learning may be her best path. But I think there should be a mechanism where kids who don't learn well from online classes or videos can still succeed.
(As an adult if someone directs me to a YT video or if I'm supposed to take a class based on video lessons I just don't have the patience or the attention span to do it. I'm always looking for different ways to learn what I need to learn.)
As always, please help me understand.
posted by bendy at 6:54 PM on August 31, 2021
I am conflicted on what they chose to do, but am having trouble articulating why.
I hear you. It seems like most educators these days won't flunk kids because of their experience or performance last year. I still think 2020 - and now at least part of 2021 - shouldn't count towards kids' grades or grade levels but that goes back to my point before. No matter what educators do there will never be a level playing field.
Inequity in quality of education from district to district and even school to school has always been indicative of “skill level”. My feeling is that it stands to reason that sure, every kid is taking a hit in their 2020 school year, but the proportions of that hit will be right along the line of the previous inequalities.
posted by bendy at 7:05 PM on August 31, 2021 [2 favorites]
I hear you. It seems like most educators these days won't flunk kids because of their experience or performance last year. I still think 2020 - and now at least part of 2021 - shouldn't count towards kids' grades or grade levels but that goes back to my point before. No matter what educators do there will never be a level playing field.
Inequity in quality of education from district to district and even school to school has always been indicative of “skill level”. My feeling is that it stands to reason that sure, every kid is taking a hit in their 2020 school year, but the proportions of that hit will be right along the line of the previous inequalities.
posted by bendy at 7:05 PM on August 31, 2021 [2 favorites]
Continuing to spitball: a GED may be criticized but it counts as a high school graduation and will still get you into college, especially if you have other outside activities going on. I've always thought that a student should spend their first couple college years in community college and then transfer to a university they can afford. For graduate school you go to the best school you can.
(Also I've always thought you should spend your first year after high school working on a boat.)
In my thoughts about working towards a grade-levels' goals or expectations I see them as a grade-level GED. You don't have to show your work as long as you get it right.
posted by bendy at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2021 [2 favorites]
(Also I've always thought you should spend your first year after high school working on a boat.)
In my thoughts about working towards a grade-levels' goals or expectations I see them as a grade-level GED. You don't have to show your work as long as you get it right.
posted by bendy at 7:25 PM on August 31, 2021 [2 favorites]
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