"If the right should somehow gain that power, I don't trust us with it."
October 20, 2021 9:32 AM Subscribe
How the American Right Fell in Love With Hungary Some U.S. conservatives are taking a cue from Prime Minister Viktor Orbán — how to use the power of the state to win the culture wars (NYT Magazine, October 19, 2021).
Paywall free link to the times article
posted by signsofrain at 10:00 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by signsofrain at 10:00 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
> But otherwise, they're just bopping on about their daily lives, because for them personally, the shit doesn't touch them.
That's all authoritarian/fascist governments, no (i.e. keep the bulk of the populace fed and happy (and/or scared) enough that they don't feel compelled to man the barricades)? Hell, it doesn't even have to be that extreme; up here in Canada most people aren't going to get involved with Indigenous issues because their kids aren't the ones getting murdered and thrown into a river in Thunder Bay, they don't have to boil their tap water before they can drink it, etc..
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
That's all authoritarian/fascist governments, no (i.e. keep the bulk of the populace fed and happy (and/or scared) enough that they don't feel compelled to man the barricades)? Hell, it doesn't even have to be that extreme; up here in Canada most people aren't going to get involved with Indigenous issues because their kids aren't the ones getting murdered and thrown into a river in Thunder Bay, they don't have to boil their tap water before they can drink it, etc..
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:11 AM on October 20, 2021 [7 favorites]
According to worldometers, Hungary is sixth worldwide for most COVID-19 deaths per million and second for a country of its population.
(click on the column to sort)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:18 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
(click on the column to sort)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:18 AM on October 20, 2021 [3 favorites]
Looks like Tucker wants his Hearst-interviewing-Hitler moment.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:40 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:40 AM on October 20, 2021 [4 favorites]
up here in Canada
ringing like a bell for me lately. The past two years have accelerated so many things for me.. I'd say 'people' but I have to use 'we' because I'm a person who is implicated, I can't think of many of us who are not somehow implicated.. and it does feel like we're drifting into something awful in between enjoying archival footage of Kate Bush concerts and discussions of Squid Game.
at least we are leaving a tidy record of evidence for once it's time to round up the ones with questionable views, MeFi seems to be an aggregator of sorts
posted by elkevelvet at 11:38 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
ringing like a bell for me lately. The past two years have accelerated so many things for me.. I'd say 'people' but I have to use 'we' because I'm a person who is implicated, I can't think of many of us who are not somehow implicated.. and it does feel like we're drifting into something awful in between enjoying archival footage of Kate Bush concerts and discussions of Squid Game.
at least we are leaving a tidy record of evidence for once it's time to round up the ones with questionable views, MeFi seems to be an aggregator of sorts
posted by elkevelvet at 11:38 AM on October 20, 2021 [2 favorites]
Way too many preposterous claims of the US right taken seriously there:
How oppressed they are! (what with controlling most corporations, many state legislatures and governorships, and the Supreme Court, and regularly holding the Senate hostage)
None of them are allowed on college campuses! (what with controlling the boards of regents/governors of a number of state universities, servings as chairs, directors, and deans across most campuses, and you know, owning business schools)
Gender studies has taken over America! (some people let their kids live their lives as they choose and states don't take over kids' medical decisions when Republicans object)
posted by hydropsyche at 12:45 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
How oppressed they are! (what with controlling most corporations, many state legislatures and governorships, and the Supreme Court, and regularly holding the Senate hostage)
None of them are allowed on college campuses! (what with controlling the boards of regents/governors of a number of state universities, servings as chairs, directors, and deans across most campuses, and you know, owning business schools)
Gender studies has taken over America! (some people let their kids live their lives as they choose and states don't take over kids' medical decisions when Republicans object)
posted by hydropsyche at 12:45 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
Rod Dreher discusses his treatment by the Times writer.
posted by mmascolino at 2:15 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mmascolino at 2:15 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
I feel dumber for having tried to read that. Republicans are literally trying to take away people's right to vote right now, but somehow the US Left is anti-democracy because someone was once mean to him on a college campus. US television news, both cable and local, is saturated with right wing view points, and people like Dreher are constantly allowed to say whatever nonsense they want even in the NY Times, but somehow the US media is suppressing freedom of speech.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:35 PM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 2:35 PM on October 20, 2021 [14 favorites]
> But otherwise, they're just bopping on about their daily lives, because for them personally, the shit doesn't touch them.
That's all authoritarian/fascist governments, no
It is both sad and predictable that this is happening in Hungary, given how many times it's happened there before.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:07 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
That's all authoritarian/fascist governments, no
It is both sad and predictable that this is happening in Hungary, given how many times it's happened there before.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:07 PM on October 20, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's not really that germane but for some reason I laughed at the affected nonchalance of "Zerofsky interviewed me in early May, I think". You think? You're writing a whole annoying magazine article about this interview and you're gonna pretend you can't check when it was? lmao. Just highlighted the deep non-seriousness / fundamental inauthenticity of this particular brand of conservative grifter, for me.
posted by dusty potato at 3:10 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by dusty potato at 3:10 PM on October 20, 2021 [6 favorites]
Our family has cousins and friends there.
I had friends who lived there. Then Orban ran their University out of town and now they are in Vienna. I'm actually happy for them because the are safely out. These kinds of governments slowly chip away at freedoms for a while and then it accelerates and a lot of people who wait too long end up stuck or only escape with huge losses.
posted by srboisvert at 4:33 PM on October 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
I had friends who lived there. Then Orban ran their University out of town and now they are in Vienna. I'm actually happy for them because the are safely out. These kinds of governments slowly chip away at freedoms for a while and then it accelerates and a lot of people who wait too long end up stuck or only escape with huge losses.
posted by srboisvert at 4:33 PM on October 20, 2021 [8 favorites]
srboisvert and I probably have friends in common because I was a grad student at Central European University throughout the early process of the university being exiled from Hungary.
I have a lot to say about it, but the thing that’s been haunting me recently is how I’d been telling my Dad for years about how the authoritarian government in Hungary has hurt me and my friends personally. How the oligarchy strangles academics, journalists, successful businesses and NGOs alike. About the protests I attended with hundreds of thousands of Hungarians trying to save my school.
I often describe him as the centrist’s centrist. He donates to Dems and Republicans alike. His bookshelf is a hodge-podge of pop politics authors ranging from Rush Limbaugh to Al Franken. In his career he’s done great things to help vulnerable people and to encourage environmentalism.
He inevitably saw the Tucker special because, although he swears he watches and is critical of all cable news equally, his actual watching habits are pretty strictly Fox.
Despite all the phone calls from Hungary, all the times I recounted what was happening to my school and despite my Dad visiting my school in person and meeting my friends, he still said about Tucker’s special episode in Hungary: “Seems like Hungary’s doing a lot of good things.”
Honestly, I was speechless and froze on confronting it. All I could do is go into another monologue about how the oligarchy hurts so many people and I’m quite sure it changed his opinion of the fake news he consumes not a whit. I’m kind of doubtful he even connected the dots or paid as close attention to me as he does to the entertaining propaganda on Fox
Right wing propaganda destroys families as surely as it destroys nations
posted by Skwirl at 11:26 PM on October 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
I have a lot to say about it, but the thing that’s been haunting me recently is how I’d been telling my Dad for years about how the authoritarian government in Hungary has hurt me and my friends personally. How the oligarchy strangles academics, journalists, successful businesses and NGOs alike. About the protests I attended with hundreds of thousands of Hungarians trying to save my school.
I often describe him as the centrist’s centrist. He donates to Dems and Republicans alike. His bookshelf is a hodge-podge of pop politics authors ranging from Rush Limbaugh to Al Franken. In his career he’s done great things to help vulnerable people and to encourage environmentalism.
He inevitably saw the Tucker special because, although he swears he watches and is critical of all cable news equally, his actual watching habits are pretty strictly Fox.
Despite all the phone calls from Hungary, all the times I recounted what was happening to my school and despite my Dad visiting my school in person and meeting my friends, he still said about Tucker’s special episode in Hungary: “Seems like Hungary’s doing a lot of good things.”
Honestly, I was speechless and froze on confronting it. All I could do is go into another monologue about how the oligarchy hurts so many people and I’m quite sure it changed his opinion of the fake news he consumes not a whit. I’m kind of doubtful he even connected the dots or paid as close attention to me as he does to the entertaining propaganda on Fox
Right wing propaganda destroys families as surely as it destroys nations
posted by Skwirl at 11:26 PM on October 20, 2021 [17 favorites]
So the cover story of this issue of NYT Magazine is fear mongering about shark attacks off Cape Cod. Are we sure this isn't the April Fools edition of the magazine?
posted by hydropsyche at 10:46 AM on October 21, 2021
posted by hydropsyche at 10:46 AM on October 21, 2021
My suspicion is the USA right 'fell in love' with Orban, because it was still too politically toxic to express open support for Putin. But, hey, now that the guy whose regime is literally toxic to his political opponents is railing against transgender rights and cancel culture, I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before Dreher starts making trips to Moscow too. Oh wait looks like he's already preparing the way.
posted by nangua at 2:21 PM on October 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by nangua at 2:21 PM on October 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Orban had a PR problem going into the Trump administration - Hungary had engaged ex-Republican Rep and Florida Man Connie Mack IV as their Washington lobbyist. Mack was a leading Never Trumper (and supporter of Jeb Bush) so... his access to the Trump administration fell somewhat short of the Hungarian Foreign Ministry's expectations. Orban's cozyness with China - making deals for huge infrastructure projects, coupled with occasional outbursts of anti American rhetoric from his cronies didn't help. He needed a true media parasite like Tucker Carlson to pull him out of the weeds. Hungarian media consumers can not view Fox News, so nobody had any idea who Tucker was. His big public appearance was at a suburban "conservative" student meeting. He made no impact at all on Hungarians.
Today is October 23, the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. There was a huge rally for Orban and FIDESZ downtown, with gigantic screens showing scenes from a FIDESZ funded propaganda feature film called "ElKurtunk" ("We Fucked Up") about how former Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany was the Evil Genius behind the 2006 Budapest Riots. Tomorrow even more FIDESZ supporters are being bussed into Budapest to march around in the right wing "Peace March" to support for Orban. Problem is, the focus of the Oct. 23 commemoration has now become Oct. 2006, the day when FIDESZ supporters rioted in downtown Budapest. Orban wants to make the identity of 1956 his own, and to place Oct 2006 on a par with the 1956 uprising. The matches are now over and I am waiting for the inevitable drunken pro-Orban howling in the streets below my flat as they spill out of the district VII. bars tonight.
posted by zaelic at 11:16 AM on October 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Today is October 23, the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. There was a huge rally for Orban and FIDESZ downtown, with gigantic screens showing scenes from a FIDESZ funded propaganda feature film called "ElKurtunk" ("We Fucked Up") about how former Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany was the Evil Genius behind the 2006 Budapest Riots. Tomorrow even more FIDESZ supporters are being bussed into Budapest to march around in the right wing "Peace March" to support for Orban. Problem is, the focus of the Oct. 23 commemoration has now become Oct. 2006, the day when FIDESZ supporters rioted in downtown Budapest. Orban wants to make the identity of 1956 his own, and to place Oct 2006 on a par with the 1956 uprising. The matches are now over and I am waiting for the inevitable drunken pro-Orban howling in the streets below my flat as they spill out of the district VII. bars tonight.
posted by zaelic at 11:16 AM on October 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
his access to the Trump administration fell somewhat short of the Hungarian Foreign Ministry's expectations.
Except for Gorka. For as long as that lasted.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:15 PM on October 23, 2021
Except for Gorka. For as long as that lasted.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:15 PM on October 23, 2021
Gorka has never been within Orban's orbital sphere. After gallivanting around Budapest's expat scene in the late '90s, Gorka tried selling himself as a "military advisor" to the Hungarian Army. When that boat did not float (the Defense Ministry checked references and did not trust Gorka...) Gorka attempted a political career, running for mayor of a small Hungarian village, and then took part in a short lived internal political putsch within FIDESZ after Orban lost in the 2002 election. Orban forgave the main plotters - he had set the internal coup up himself to test for party loyalty - and Gorka was just another fall boy tossed by the way. So soon after he came to the USA with his American wife.
posted by zaelic at 2:41 PM on October 23, 2021
posted by zaelic at 2:41 PM on October 23, 2021
Thanks. I hadn’t realized.
Pretty sure my grandparents would have suggested all these guys get better acquainted with the nearest horse.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:59 PM on October 23, 2021
Pretty sure my grandparents would have suggested all these guys get better acquainted with the nearest horse.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:59 PM on October 23, 2021
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Draw your parallels how you like. It's not an example that fills you with hope for the United States.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:49 AM on October 20, 2021 [39 favorites]