This Is What Transgender Eradication Looks Like
August 24, 2023 7:53 AM Subscribe
Trans teachers fired. Trans inmates detransitioned. Adult care banned. Allies killed. We are entering into a new phase of anti-trans politics, and eradication is the goal.
Here's the last paragraph:
Here's the last paragraph:
While hope is invaluable, it alone won't repel attempts at eradication. Action is imperative. Beyond just legal protections, we must actively support trans individuals who cross state boundaries, aiding them in regaining their financial stability. Furthermore, we can't abandon those without the resources, ability, or will to relocate from their homes. Many of us hope for a quicker resolution, but this battle might become the kind of generational struggle we'll recount to our children. Though these may be efforts to erase us, one truth stands firm: we are part of what it means to be human, and eradication is a futile pursuit. Even if every last one of us was removed from this Earth, we would still be here, born anew to every generation.
My brother's family (including my trans nephew) used to have a restaurant in Lake Arrowhead, and were friends with the woman killed there. I've been feeling sick about this for days.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:04 AM on August 24, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 8:04 AM on August 24, 2023 [21 favorites]
The oligarchy needs to get social conservatives to vote Republican, because vanishingly few other people will. They've run out of other things they can do, because there are fewer social conservatives and more people who hate them. They can't really demonize regular old gay people anymore (though that's not going to stop them from trying) because regular old gay people are way more popular than social conservatives, Republicans or the oligarchy. So trans people are like their final frontier. It's not going to work, in the long run: remember that white evangelical "Christians" are only about 13% of the population. But it's a grim reminder of what the next ~10 years are going to be like: "Christian" conservatives lost their hegemony around 2008 and non-believers will be in the majority a lot sooner than you might think. Those Christian conservatives aren't going to go gently, though: we're in for a decade of stochastic terrorism, of which that poor lady with her Pride flag is just a harbinger.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:16 AM on August 24, 2023 [31 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:16 AM on August 24, 2023 [31 favorites]
The phrase "deeply rooted in this nation’s history and traditions" is going to go down in history as a piece of judicial evil that ranks up there with Dred Scott, Plessy v. Ferguson, the Korematsu decision, Buck v. Bell, and Citizens United.
And the entire reason for any of it is red meat for the fucking base. They want us dead, physically or spiritually, because we want to be ourselves, in a way that makes them uncomfortable.
I am incredibly angry at this entire situation, and if you handed me a box with a button and told me "Every time you press that button, you get half a million dollars but a transphobe dies, I'd probably be at half a billion before my finger got tired.
Also, Erin Reed's stuff is good. You should read it.
posted by mephron at 8:27 AM on August 24, 2023 [49 favorites]
And the entire reason for any of it is red meat for the fucking base. They want us dead, physically or spiritually, because we want to be ourselves, in a way that makes them uncomfortable.
I am incredibly angry at this entire situation, and if you handed me a box with a button and told me "Every time you press that button, you get half a million dollars but a transphobe dies, I'd probably be at half a billion before my finger got tired.
Also, Erin Reed's stuff is good. You should read it.
posted by mephron at 8:27 AM on August 24, 2023 [49 favorites]
The phrase "deeply rooted in this nation’s history and traditions" is going to go down in history as a piece of judicial evil that ranks up there with Dred Scott, Plessy v. Ferguson, the Korematsu decision, Buck v. Bell, and Citizens United.
Agreed. The Supreme Court is just operating on vibes now. Their decisions have nothing to do with the law.
Unfortunately, these vibes are going to be used as precedent for decades. I'm very worried at where that line in the Dobbs decision is going to lead.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:36 AM on August 24, 2023 [33 favorites]
Agreed. The Supreme Court is just operating on vibes now. Their decisions have nothing to do with the law.
Unfortunately, these vibes are going to be used as precedent for decades. I'm very worried at where that line in the Dobbs decision is going to lead.
posted by rhymedirective at 8:36 AM on August 24, 2023 [33 favorites]
if you handed me a box with a button and told me "Every time you press that button, you get half a million dollars but a transphobe dies, I'd probably be at half a billion before my finger got tired.
At this point, I don't think I'd need there to be a dollar reward as well.
posted by Dysk at 8:41 AM on August 24, 2023 [37 favorites]
At this point, I don't think I'd need there to be a dollar reward as well.
posted by Dysk at 8:41 AM on August 24, 2023 [37 favorites]
Consequently, recent surveys reveal that approximately 260,000 transgender individuals have already relocated to different states — a significant 8% of the entire trans population (estimated to number between 1.5-3 million, or 0.5-1% of the US population). Moreover, an additional 40% are contemplating such a move.Count me among this demographic. My wife and I don't even live in one of the real "danger" states, but PA is so on-the-fence about things that we're afraid one swing of an election could turn things in a scary direction. We recently traveled to Minneapolis to check out some neighborhoods (oh I could go on and on about how much I loved that city). I'd say that 40% stat tracks with the amount of her non-cis friend group who are looking at moving as well.
posted by specialagentwebb at 9:03 AM on August 24, 2023 [19 favorites]
The Supreme Court is just operating on vibes now.
Holy shit, this is such an accurate and depressing description.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:10 AM on August 24, 2023 [26 favorites]
Holy shit, this is such an accurate and depressing description.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:10 AM on August 24, 2023 [26 favorites]
>I'd say that 40% stat tracks
that's also part of the strategy, back-fill their thin majorities by forcing the opposition to nope out, taking their votes with them.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:11 AM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
that's also part of the strategy, back-fill their thin majorities by forcing the opposition to nope out, taking their votes with them.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:11 AM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
Honestly, delighted to welcome refugees to my state. We've got a pretty large and strong community.
A few years ago I was focused on winning and preventing genocide-enactors from getting into power but now I'm focused on surviving and caring for those I can. Hosting potlucks, donating to refugee funds, or just providing a safe stable place for refugee community is a huge contribution.
posted by constraint at 9:11 AM on August 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
A few years ago I was focused on winning and preventing genocide-enactors from getting into power but now I'm focused on surviving and caring for those I can. Hosting potlucks, donating to refugee funds, or just providing a safe stable place for refugee community is a huge contribution.
posted by constraint at 9:11 AM on August 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
Oh, and today's next nightmare thought: Korematsu has never been undone.
It could be used as precedent if some stochastic terrorist for a president decides to intern all trans people in camps. And the current balance of the court would probably go "no, no, that's OK", with a wink and a smile.
posted by mephron at 9:12 AM on August 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
It could be used as precedent if some stochastic terrorist for a president decides to intern all trans people in camps. And the current balance of the court would probably go "no, no, that's OK", with a wink and a smile.
posted by mephron at 9:12 AM on August 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
Thanks for posting this. I knew some of this, but not nearly all of it, and as someone in a very blue city in a blue state it's easy to insulate yourself from how bad things are getting while there's still time to help try to make a difference.
posted by Mchelly at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
> that's also part of the strategy
They won. It's over. Supreme Court was captured, they've built an electoral mafia that will hold onto power, and the courts no longer have any interest in stopping it.
Gotta survive first.
posted by constraint at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
They won. It's over. Supreme Court was captured, they've built an electoral mafia that will hold onto power, and the courts no longer have any interest in stopping it.
Gotta survive first.
posted by constraint at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
Reading this is just so.....
*sighs*
America's lean into this latest form of bigotry and hatred is not surprising but still boggles the mind when you just see how normal it is or how much those who have power are trying to normalize it.
It is very disheartening. Sending all my love to the trans community.
posted by Fizz at 9:20 AM on August 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
*sighs*
America's lean into this latest form of bigotry and hatred is not surprising but still boggles the mind when you just see how normal it is or how much those who have power are trying to normalize it.
It is very disheartening. Sending all my love to the trans community.
posted by Fizz at 9:20 AM on August 24, 2023 [8 favorites]
It is at least not bipartisan for now. Not that The Times, The Atlantic etc… haven’t been busily chipping away at that.
posted by Artw at 9:25 AM on August 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:25 AM on August 24, 2023 [10 favorites]
Yes, and this is why anti-trans legislation is logically inconsistent. For example, the transphobes can't understand that requiring trans people to use the bathroom of their assigned sex at birth will mean that bearded, burly (trans) men will be in the women's bathroom. When you point that out to them, they are completely unable to get their heads around it.
That's because the goal of anti-trans legislation is not to restrict trans people's activities, it's to make trans people so miserable that they either go back into the closet or move out of the jurisdiction, so that the transphobes never have to see them or interact with them.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:37 AM on August 24, 2023 [23 favorites]
That's because the goal of anti-trans legislation is not to restrict trans people's activities, it's to make trans people so miserable that they either go back into the closet or move out of the jurisdiction, so that the transphobes never have to see them or interact with them.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:37 AM on August 24, 2023 [23 favorites]
The NYT is so all-in on declaring war on trans people that they published a story yesterday based on Jamie Reed's perjury and patient record stealing despite that her bullshit claims were debunked IN FUCKING MARCH. There's no news about it, no new developments, and Jamie Reed is the same lying piece of trash she was when she was shown to be such five months ago, but for some reason the New York Times decided to fill some column inches with a piece that is apparently completely unaware any of that actually happened. At this point it's just pure, unreasoning malevolence.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:42 AM on August 24, 2023 [45 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:42 AM on August 24, 2023 [45 favorites]
For example, the transphobes can't understand that requiring trans people to use the bathroom of their assigned sex at birth will mean that bearded, burly (trans) men will be in the women's bathroom.
Please stop using this/us as a gotcha.
posted by hoyland at 9:48 AM on August 24, 2023 [30 favorites]
Please stop using this/us as a gotcha.
posted by hoyland at 9:48 AM on August 24, 2023 [30 favorites]
For example, the transphobes can't understand that requiring trans people to use the bathroom of their assigned sex at birth will mean that bearded, burly (trans) men will be in the women's bathroom.
Please stop using this/us as a gotcha.
It's not meant as a gotcha. It's meant as an example of how the people pushing for the legislation don't even understand how the legislation will operate, because it will result in the exact thing that they purport to want to avoid.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:50 AM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Please stop using this/us as a gotcha.
It's not meant as a gotcha. It's meant as an example of how the people pushing for the legislation don't even understand how the legislation will operate, because it will result in the exact thing that they purport to want to avoid.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:50 AM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
No, it will just mean that trans folk can't use any public bathrooms.
There are no gotchas, you will never get them to hold true to their own rules, they will just use violence when the "gotcha" comes up.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:58 AM on August 24, 2023 [52 favorites]
There are no gotchas, you will never get them to hold true to their own rules, they will just use violence when the "gotcha" comes up.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:58 AM on August 24, 2023 [52 favorites]
They don't care how it will operate. Nor do they care about "protecting women" (which interestingly doesn't figure much in the US rhetoric this time around).
Why do I say you're using us as a gotcha? Trans people use bathrooms based on what is going to result in least hassle. Transmasculine people with beards aren't going to suddenly use the women's restroom because the state legislature says so. We're not stupid, we were hassled in women's restrooms without facial hair; in my case, even before coming out. (See cis people being just shocked that (cis) women are getting harassed this time around. Transphobia is heavily about policing women's genders and bodies.)
posted by hoyland at 9:58 AM on August 24, 2023 [43 favorites]
Why do I say you're using us as a gotcha? Trans people use bathrooms based on what is going to result in least hassle. Transmasculine people with beards aren't going to suddenly use the women's restroom because the state legislature says so. We're not stupid, we were hassled in women's restrooms without facial hair; in my case, even before coming out. (See cis people being just shocked that (cis) women are getting harassed this time around. Transphobia is heavily about policing women's genders and bodies.)
posted by hoyland at 9:58 AM on August 24, 2023 [43 favorites]
Certainly they’re not going to defeated by pointing out some hypocracy or logical contradiction or some “right” thing to do… it’s about the excercise of power, not “rules”.
posted by Artw at 10:13 AM on August 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:13 AM on August 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
My sibs back home were making jokes about refugees and sanctuary states in the family group chat.* I felt compelled to remind them that technically that describes my trans daughter and I. **
*One of the worst things about my family conservatives is that every conversation, no matter how mundane, is prone to lurch into weird rightwing talking points. Dudes I just want to know how your kids are.
** but if you are going to go there, let's tango, assholes***
*** honestly I would cut them off but I worry about their kids and grandkids
posted by emjaybee at 10:14 AM on August 24, 2023 [28 favorites]
*One of the worst things about my family conservatives is that every conversation, no matter how mundane, is prone to lurch into weird rightwing talking points. Dudes I just want to know how your kids are.
** but if you are going to go there, let's tango, assholes***
*** honestly I would cut them off but I worry about their kids and grandkids
posted by emjaybee at 10:14 AM on August 24, 2023 [28 favorites]
They don't care how it will operate. Nor do they care about "protecting women" (which interestingly doesn't figure much in the US rhetoric this time around). [hoyland]
Certainly they’re not going to defeated by pointing out some hypocracy or logical contradiction or some “right” thing to do… it’s about the excercise of power, not “rules”. [Artw]
Yes, that's exactly my point. The legislation is internally inconsistent because they don't care whether it's hypocritical or even nonsensical. The point is to remove trans people entirely. Thanks for articulating it better than I was.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:18 AM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Certainly they’re not going to defeated by pointing out some hypocracy or logical contradiction or some “right” thing to do… it’s about the excercise of power, not “rules”. [Artw]
Yes, that's exactly my point. The legislation is internally inconsistent because they don't care whether it's hypocritical or even nonsensical. The point is to remove trans people entirely. Thanks for articulating it better than I was.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:18 AM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Florida education officials approve mandatory firings for staff who use bathrooms not designated for their assigned birth gender
posted by robbyrobs at 10:20 AM on August 24, 2023
posted by robbyrobs at 10:20 AM on August 24, 2023
> mephron: "Oh, and today's next nightmare thought: Korematsu has never been undone."
It appears that the Roberts court did issue a repudiation (not sure if this is equivalent to an overturning) of Korematsu... in the case of Trump v. Hawaii, i.e.: the ruling in favor of Trump's muslim ban. In some ways, it's even worse because it shows that conservatives actually haven't evolved on the underlying issue and are just trolling us at this point.
posted by mhum at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
It appears that the Roberts court did issue a repudiation (not sure if this is equivalent to an overturning) of Korematsu... in the case of Trump v. Hawaii, i.e.: the ruling in favor of Trump's muslim ban. In some ways, it's even worse because it shows that conservatives actually haven't evolved on the underlying issue and are just trolling us at this point.
posted by mhum at 10:29 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've always been a pacifist, and anti-gun, but increasingly I'm in favour of trans folks being armed, because what the f**k is next. Even here in Canada, conservatism is going further and further off the rails. It's not just a war of words, people are f**king dying and the ones doing the killing have, almost to a one, brains just crawling with conservative worms.
I'm glad I don't have kids because I am honestly terrified for the ones in my life. What kind of world are they going to end up living in?
posted by signsofrain at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm glad I don't have kids because I am honestly terrified for the ones in my life. What kind of world are they going to end up living in?
posted by signsofrain at 12:18 PM on August 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
New Brunswick and Saskatchewan have brought in legislation that forces teachers to out trans kids to their parents.
This is in an atmosphere where conservatives and convoy losers (but I repeat myself) are already sporting stickers on their trucks with the Liberal party "L" in crosshairs. Higgs, Moe and Poilievre are just itching for some of these loose canons to take the first step (as they are in the US) so can they turn around and say, "look what you made us do!"
posted by klanawa at 12:33 PM on August 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is in an atmosphere where conservatives and convoy losers (but I repeat myself) are already sporting stickers on their trucks with the Liberal party "L" in crosshairs. Higgs, Moe and Poilievre are just itching for some of these loose canons to take the first step (as they are in the US) so can they turn around and say, "look what you made us do!"
posted by klanawa at 12:33 PM on August 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Two comments deleted. Gender and assigned sex are not the same thing and trans women are women. Period.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:59 PM on August 24, 2023 [64 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 12:59 PM on August 24, 2023 [64 favorites]
And the entire reason for any of it is red meat for the fucking base. They want us dead, physically or spiritually, because we want to be ourselves, in a way that makes them uncomfortable.
3/4 of America's history took place without meaningful federal laws preventing racial discrimination, without anything resembling equal civil and legal rights for women, with being LGBT+ being considered a mental disorder by many and grounds for harassment and far worse by many more, and so on. The last sixty years or so have been when meaningful progress towards a fairer and more civil society have happened. That's within the lifetime of many a Fox News viewer, many of whom lived through times and places where things used to be different, and they want that control and dominance back.
Those forms of discrimination were enforced via law, via court decisions, via social pressure, via targeted harassment, and far too often via force over the decades. They're prepared to use any and all of these to restore the old social order. They can't return America to 1951 overnight, but they can and will go after highly visible targets (like drag) and acutely vulnerable targets (trans communities in general) because they're the easiest for them to get at.
The nature of the beast is to fear that which is different. Unfortunately, our beasts are numerous and unwilling to evolve.
posted by delfin at 1:01 PM on August 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
3/4 of America's history took place without meaningful federal laws preventing racial discrimination, without anything resembling equal civil and legal rights for women, with being LGBT+ being considered a mental disorder by many and grounds for harassment and far worse by many more, and so on. The last sixty years or so have been when meaningful progress towards a fairer and more civil society have happened. That's within the lifetime of many a Fox News viewer, many of whom lived through times and places where things used to be different, and they want that control and dominance back.
Those forms of discrimination were enforced via law, via court decisions, via social pressure, via targeted harassment, and far too often via force over the decades. They're prepared to use any and all of these to restore the old social order. They can't return America to 1951 overnight, but they can and will go after highly visible targets (like drag) and acutely vulnerable targets (trans communities in general) because they're the easiest for them to get at.
The nature of the beast is to fear that which is different. Unfortunately, our beasts are numerous and unwilling to evolve.
posted by delfin at 1:01 PM on August 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
> My wife and I don't even live in one of the real "danger" states, but PA is so on-the-fence about things that we're afraid one swing of an election could turn things in a scary direction.
...yeah. I was on the job market this year, and I had offers in PA and in some safer states, but the PA one had some real advantages that I felt like I couldn't ignore, especially early on in this next career stage. I'm honestly quite worried that I'll end up having to move in a few years if things go south there, though. It feels like a huge gamble. And it feels insane to be leaving MA, where I am now, but I didn't get job offers here and trying to look for jobs next year and hoping I got geographically better options was also a gamble.
There aren't any good choices right now.
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 1:21 PM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
...yeah. I was on the job market this year, and I had offers in PA and in some safer states, but the PA one had some real advantages that I felt like I couldn't ignore, especially early on in this next career stage. I'm honestly quite worried that I'll end up having to move in a few years if things go south there, though. It feels like a huge gamble. And it feels insane to be leaving MA, where I am now, but I didn't get job offers here and trying to look for jobs next year and hoping I got geographically better options was also a gamble.
There aren't any good choices right now.
posted by ASF Tod und Schwerkraft at 1:21 PM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
I came out as trans about a year and a half ago and started on HRT one year and three months ago. I live in Georgia which is... not the most horrific of the governments in the southeast but not by much.
I tell you, my timing is fucking stellar y'all. *bone deep sigh*
posted by Maaik at 1:23 PM on August 24, 2023 [40 favorites]
I tell you, my timing is fucking stellar y'all. *bone deep sigh*
posted by Maaik at 1:23 PM on August 24, 2023 [40 favorites]
Thanks for this post, aniola.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2023
posted by Bella Donna at 2:01 PM on August 24, 2023
Hey Maaik, congratulations on your coming out/hormone-iversary, even if there is lots of darkness. I'm glad you're in the world.
posted by emjaybee at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2023 [32 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2023 [32 favorites]
Higgs, Moe and Poilievre are just itching for some of these loose canons to take the first step (as they are in the US) so can they turn around and say, "look what you made us do!"
The battle arrived in Ontario already (link to an article about the University of Waterloo standing in solidarity after a professor and two students were stabbed in a gender studies class.)
posted by warriorqueen at 3:02 PM on August 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
The battle arrived in Ontario already (link to an article about the University of Waterloo standing in solidarity after a professor and two students were stabbed in a gender studies class.)
posted by warriorqueen at 3:02 PM on August 24, 2023 [5 favorites]
Thanks, warriorqueen, I knew something was slipping my mind.
posted by klanawa at 3:06 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by klanawa at 3:06 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
My (transgender) wife and I fled Indiana this year. We had to sell our house to afford it-- and we'll never have the money again to buy one in the HCOL but safe state to which we relocated.
Any inheritance our kids might have had, gone. And we're too afraid to spend what little we have left in savings because what if 2024 goes the wrong way? What if the Supreme Court gets worse? We need money to flee the country.
That's literally where we are. Fled a state I lived in for all 50 years of my life, and still worried that we might need to flee again. And here we are, lucky, because we had some equity in our house to exploit. Without it, we'd still be in Indiana, in fear, all the time.
We're just in fear SOME of the time now. Pursuit of happiness never implied achieving it, I guess.
posted by headspace at 3:25 PM on August 24, 2023 [44 favorites]
Any inheritance our kids might have had, gone. And we're too afraid to spend what little we have left in savings because what if 2024 goes the wrong way? What if the Supreme Court gets worse? We need money to flee the country.
That's literally where we are. Fled a state I lived in for all 50 years of my life, and still worried that we might need to flee again. And here we are, lucky, because we had some equity in our house to exploit. Without it, we'd still be in Indiana, in fear, all the time.
We're just in fear SOME of the time now. Pursuit of happiness never implied achieving it, I guess.
posted by headspace at 3:25 PM on August 24, 2023 [44 favorites]
I am glad you made it out, headspace, and enraged that your family was forced to flee.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:28 AM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:28 AM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Certainly they’re not going to defeated by pointing out some hypocracy or logical contradiction or some “right” thing to do… it’s about the excercise of power, not “rules”.
Someone told me this in a different context, so in both contexts (as trans/n.b. myself) I nevertheless disagree.
Pointing out the idiotic absurdity of a powerful group's actions is not to defeat them instrumentally. It is to tell ourselves and the rest of the world that, yet again, a particular emperor has no clothes. There is an intangible value in that.
posted by polymodus at 4:14 AM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
Someone told me this in a different context, so in both contexts (as trans/n.b. myself) I nevertheless disagree.
Pointing out the idiotic absurdity of a powerful group's actions is not to defeat them instrumentally. It is to tell ourselves and the rest of the world that, yet again, a particular emperor has no clothes. There is an intangible value in that.
posted by polymodus at 4:14 AM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think that’s a very good point about the purpose of such discourse being to strengthen coalitions opposed to Trump and the fascism that he is the face of, but it does highlight the need to point out the hypocrisy or absurdity while being careful not to stray into fat-shaming or similar territory that would exclude or alienate folks within those coalitions.
posted by eviemath at 5:09 AM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 5:09 AM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
We already know the emperor has no clothes. He still has the power to order our deaths.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:42 AM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:42 AM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
The idea that people, especially children, need to be protected from bodily mutilation is a reason to fight against “transgenderism” is based on lies and misrepresentations. Trans kids aren’t having surgery.
posted by zenzenobia at 5:51 AM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by zenzenobia at 5:51 AM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Comment removed for being hateful and insensitive. This is an inclusive site and that means treating trans folks as human, period.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:55 AM on August 25, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:55 AM on August 25, 2023 [18 favorites]
Thanks, mods.
It's awful reading hateful rhetoric HERE, but on top of that, every time I read a transphobe's rantings (thanks again, here, and also Alice fucking COOPER, of all people), it's also so shockingly BORING and SAME-SOUNDING. You sound like Talking Point Parrots. We've heard it. You won't be bringing a revelation to anyone with your "logic" argument. You're only sad, cruel, and misinformed.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:58 AM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
It's awful reading hateful rhetoric HERE, but on top of that, every time I read a transphobe's rantings (thanks again, here, and also Alice fucking COOPER, of all people), it's also so shockingly BORING and SAME-SOUNDING. You sound like Talking Point Parrots. We've heard it. You won't be bringing a revelation to anyone with your "logic" argument. You're only sad, cruel, and misinformed.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:58 AM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
Yeah, wow, there was a lot of misinformation in that post (that was deleted). Trans health care takes many forms, transitioning does not equal sterilization, and there are in fact trans people who get pregnant and have kids.
And trans care for young children is not surgery, it's puberty blockers, which have been used in children for other medical issues for decades without harm. They simply give the child time.
And lots of surgeries are irreversible. I don't have the stats in front of me, but by memory the regret for knee surgery is about 20%, and for gender affirming surgery it's about 1-2% (a lot of that because dealing with stigma is hard, not because the person decides they aren't trans). If regret for irreversible surgery is the criteria for denying care, then we should be denying care for anyone who gets a knee replacement.
Tatoos are also quite difficult to reverse, but again, no one is banning those. And frankly, I personally have a better understanding of why someone would want to transition than why someone would want a tatoo. But like, that's cool, I don't have to understand it. If it makes you happy, it certainly doesn't hurt me, get your tatoo.
posted by antinomia at 6:04 AM on August 25, 2023 [19 favorites]
And trans care for young children is not surgery, it's puberty blockers, which have been used in children for other medical issues for decades without harm. They simply give the child time.
And lots of surgeries are irreversible. I don't have the stats in front of me, but by memory the regret for knee surgery is about 20%, and for gender affirming surgery it's about 1-2% (a lot of that because dealing with stigma is hard, not because the person decides they aren't trans). If regret for irreversible surgery is the criteria for denying care, then we should be denying care for anyone who gets a knee replacement.
Tatoos are also quite difficult to reverse, but again, no one is banning those. And frankly, I personally have a better understanding of why someone would want to transition than why someone would want a tatoo. But like, that's cool, I don't have to understand it. If it makes you happy, it certainly doesn't hurt me, get your tatoo.
posted by antinomia at 6:04 AM on August 25, 2023 [19 favorites]
Good, are they taking hormones? Are they waiting to an appropriate age of reasoning? That's fine. Make that your point. That's fine, people think/assume that when you're 12yr old decides they're the wrong gender you start the hormone therapy to make them a girl/boy depending. If they/you wait until they can drink or join the military and are considered adult and fully formed.... Go for it. Make *that* known.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:05 AM on August 25, 2023
posted by zengargoyle at 6:05 AM on August 25, 2023
No, we don't make kids graduate high school on puberty blockers. They are on them while they take time to get fully informed by their doctors and make a decision for themselves on which direction they want their puberty to go. Children should have rights of bodily autonomy -- they know who they are. To deny them that is abusive.
Why is it so important to you to control another person's body?
posted by antinomia at 6:16 AM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
Why is it so important to you to control another person's body?
posted by antinomia at 6:16 AM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
Puberty blockers are the damnable compromise with the people whose actual desire is to force trans kids through the agony of a puberty they don't want. Ideally HRT would start as soon as possible so that trans kids aren't forced to go through puberty after their peers.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:20 AM on August 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:20 AM on August 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
The hetero-cis-sexism involved in the simultaneous “concerns” about insufficiently fem-presenting trans women and bullying/abuse heaped in insufficiently masculine appearing trans or cis men alongside assuming that living as their authentic self must necessarily involve specific surgeries for all trans folks is the same sexism that Gloria/America Ferrera decries in her monologue about the impossible double standards women face in the recent Barbie movie.
posted by eviemath at 6:21 AM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:21 AM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
The idea that people, especially children, need to be protected from bodily mutilation is a reason to fight against “transgenderism” is based on lies and misrepresentations. Trans kids aren’t having surgery.
there are more cis teens having breast reductions and augmentations by multiple orders of magnitude than there are trans teens getting any kind of affirming surgical care.
there are more cis teens than trans teens getting any kind of affirming care whatsoever by many, many orders of magnitude.
but even ignoring the simple numerical stuff, it's wild how often people will just burst in with their misinformation and malignant ignorance to spew hate about a group they know nothing about, and depressing because time is a flat circle and no matter how many times it's patiently explained, it's like building a sandcastle on a quickly sinking sandbar in an ocean of hate
posted by i used to be someone else at 6:26 AM on August 25, 2023 [22 favorites]
there are more cis teens having breast reductions and augmentations by multiple orders of magnitude than there are trans teens getting any kind of affirming surgical care.
there are more cis teens than trans teens getting any kind of affirming care whatsoever by many, many orders of magnitude.
but even ignoring the simple numerical stuff, it's wild how often people will just burst in with their misinformation and malignant ignorance to spew hate about a group they know nothing about, and depressing because time is a flat circle and no matter how many times it's patiently explained, it's like building a sandcastle on a quickly sinking sandbar in an ocean of hate
posted by i used to be someone else at 6:26 AM on August 25, 2023 [22 favorites]
when you're 12yr old decides they're the wrong gender
The decision to say out loud who you are isn't a whim.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:28 AM on August 25, 2023 [13 favorites]
The decision to say out loud who you are isn't a whim.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:28 AM on August 25, 2023 [13 favorites]
Meh, I was just trying to tell people what the people they fight actually think. It's not what they think it is. It's deeper than what shows up on the surface. I grew up with a psychologist and minister uncle and a bastard evangelical preacher and I *know* the what/how people think. I have decades or people studying and know what they really think. You can take that or leave it. Don't fight the distractionary things, get to the root. So much effort is wasted by not dealing with the root cause.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:30 AM on August 25, 2023
posted by zengargoyle at 6:30 AM on August 25, 2023
Ooo, the "I know the truth" argument.
I don't care what hateful transphobes who refuse to learn, think, same as I don't care what racists think.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:32 AM on August 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't care what hateful transphobes who refuse to learn, think, same as I don't care what racists think.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:32 AM on August 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yep, the other problem with that post was the assumption that gender = boy or girl. I mean, some people say it's a spectrum but I even have a problem with that.. a spectrum between what? Gender presentation itself is cultural and arbitrary when you look around the world and across time. And I've personally never felt like "a gender".
On preview: don't assume anyone here isn't familiar with all the transphobic misinformation out there. It gets shoved down our throats all the time. By bringing these things up unquestioningly you are not informing, you're harassing us with the stick we've been beaten with time and again.
posted by antinomia at 6:33 AM on August 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
On preview: don't assume anyone here isn't familiar with all the transphobic misinformation out there. It gets shoved down our throats all the time. By bringing these things up unquestioningly you are not informing, you're harassing us with the stick we've been beaten with time and again.
posted by antinomia at 6:33 AM on August 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
Mod note: zengargoyle, your comments are derailing the discussionb. Please refrain from posting further in this thread, as you've expressed your points repeatedly, thank you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:35 AM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:35 AM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
there are more cis teens having breast reductions and augmentations by multiple orders of magnitude than there are trans teens getting any kind of affirming surgical care.
Fine, reversible. As stated and pointed out full transitioning isn't happening that young. There are many things that can be done and the undone or done again differently. It's the irreversible that's the issue. We can't yet undo some things that are therefore life long changes. Full awareness is (or should be) a prerequisite for such decisions. That's it.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:36 AM on August 25, 2023
Fine, reversible. As stated and pointed out full transitioning isn't happening that young. There are many things that can be done and the undone or done again differently. It's the irreversible that's the issue. We can't yet undo some things that are therefore life long changes. Full awareness is (or should be) a prerequisite for such decisions. That's it.
posted by zengargoyle at 6:36 AM on August 25, 2023
Full awareness is a part of transition, so you can stop worrying. There are doctors involved! I can see it causes you distress, don't get it but....you can go ahead and stop "warning" people who are more informed than you.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:39 AM on August 25, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:39 AM on August 25, 2023 [11 favorites]
As a transmasculine person in a "safe" state - two weeks ago a queer/trans punk show literally right by my house got shot up, one person was killed and more were injured. These were friends of friends, people who are a generation younger than me but in my general milieu. Lately I can't think about this stuff very much because I have to keep on with everything else.
Also it's extremely stupid bullshit from people who not only lack self-insight but don't want to have self-insight, and that is another thing that sends me spiraling. For one reason and another, my big worry since I was a kid was basically "people who lack self-insight and don't want self-insight". I've spent a lot of time trying to believe that most people aren't like that, but the past six or seven years have really made me realize that most people in fact do not want self-insight. "Why does this scare me? Why does this anger me? What is going to hurt me and what isn't going to hurt me? What are all the consequences if X? If Y?" - those are all questions that most people don't want to ask themselves, they just want to have someone to hate and kick around. Sometimes it's trans people, sometimes it's people of color, sometimes it's homeless people, but it's all about having someone to dehumanize and beat down. I'm not saying that seeking self-insight means you get self-insight, it's pretty much definitive that we can't know ourselves completely, but trying to get insight at least keeps you from gleefully fucking people over.
~~
On another note: I've had a number of conversations with people about my dislike for wingsuits. (Hear me out here.) I really, really dislike this extremely risky sport and the terrible, often-livestreamed-or-videoed deaths that it causes. If I were emperor, not that I'd be emperor since I'm an anarchist etc, I would ban wingsuits.
Every time I have this conversation, the response is overwhelmingly "you can't ban wingsuits, people should have a right to do risky sports no matter the harm to their families, to themselves, to society from broadcasting the deaths, etc". People get very, very hostile over the right to this sport. People I like and generally find very reasonable get all up in arms over this!
Banning wingsuits would do very little harm - it would disappoint a number of enthusiasts but would save a few lives.
People don't want to ban wingsuits but they feel perfectly confident wanting to ban and restrict trans healthcare and trans gender expression, things that are proven to be overwhelmingly beneficial to trans people and their families/social circles.
This is what I mean by stupid people who don't want self-insight and who just like vibes. Wingsuits are hardcore, man, so a few videos of people dying agonizing deaths alone and far from help are just the price we pay, but it makes me feel weird to think of my kid changing names or wearing a dress, so suddenly puberty blockers are unsafe, hormones give you cancer and it's a huge tragedy if a trans person elects healthcare that keeps them from bearing a child.
Stupid people who are in it for the vibes are the ones who are going to kill us all because it will feel good in the moment.
posted by Frowner at 6:40 AM on August 25, 2023 [43 favorites]
Also it's extremely stupid bullshit from people who not only lack self-insight but don't want to have self-insight, and that is another thing that sends me spiraling. For one reason and another, my big worry since I was a kid was basically "people who lack self-insight and don't want self-insight". I've spent a lot of time trying to believe that most people aren't like that, but the past six or seven years have really made me realize that most people in fact do not want self-insight. "Why does this scare me? Why does this anger me? What is going to hurt me and what isn't going to hurt me? What are all the consequences if X? If Y?" - those are all questions that most people don't want to ask themselves, they just want to have someone to hate and kick around. Sometimes it's trans people, sometimes it's people of color, sometimes it's homeless people, but it's all about having someone to dehumanize and beat down. I'm not saying that seeking self-insight means you get self-insight, it's pretty much definitive that we can't know ourselves completely, but trying to get insight at least keeps you from gleefully fucking people over.
~~
On another note: I've had a number of conversations with people about my dislike for wingsuits. (Hear me out here.) I really, really dislike this extremely risky sport and the terrible, often-livestreamed-or-videoed deaths that it causes. If I were emperor, not that I'd be emperor since I'm an anarchist etc, I would ban wingsuits.
Every time I have this conversation, the response is overwhelmingly "you can't ban wingsuits, people should have a right to do risky sports no matter the harm to their families, to themselves, to society from broadcasting the deaths, etc". People get very, very hostile over the right to this sport. People I like and generally find very reasonable get all up in arms over this!
Banning wingsuits would do very little harm - it would disappoint a number of enthusiasts but would save a few lives.
People don't want to ban wingsuits but they feel perfectly confident wanting to ban and restrict trans healthcare and trans gender expression, things that are proven to be overwhelmingly beneficial to trans people and their families/social circles.
This is what I mean by stupid people who don't want self-insight and who just like vibes. Wingsuits are hardcore, man, so a few videos of people dying agonizing deaths alone and far from help are just the price we pay, but it makes me feel weird to think of my kid changing names or wearing a dress, so suddenly puberty blockers are unsafe, hormones give you cancer and it's a huge tragedy if a trans person elects healthcare that keeps them from bearing a child.
Stupid people who are in it for the vibes are the ones who are going to kill us all because it will feel good in the moment.
posted by Frowner at 6:40 AM on August 25, 2023 [43 favorites]
Meh, I was just trying to tell people what the people they fight actually think. It's not what they think it is. It's deeper than what shows up on the surface. I grew up with a psychologist and minister uncle and a bastard evangelical preacher and I *know* the what/how people think. I have decades or people studying and know what they really think. You can take that or leave it. Don't fight the distractionary things, get to the root. So much effort is wasted by not dealing with the root cause.people who repeat bigotry but want to be seen as good people often phrase things like this: "i just want to explain what people really think," "i just want to explain what people see as true," and so on.
there's this misconception that everyone who is in opposition to that bigotry misunderstands the source; it's just like when a christian proselytizer tries to converse with someone who had deconstructed their faith or escaped it, and instead of listening keeps going back to "but this is what it really says, you don't understand!"
thing is, ex-evangelicals, ex-mormons, ex-catholics? most of us do understand. we're much more intimately familiar with the tactics and the ideas and the actual, literal text, as well as the commentary around it. we have to be, because of people constantly throwing hate our way and shrieking about the "error" of our ways.
being trans is quite similar: so many of us have heard the same talking points so many times, have heard all of the variations on the same hate constantly, that we tend to be more familiar with the roots, manifestations, and dogwhistles of said bigotry than the cis people who purport to tell us what really is.
posted by i used to be someone else at 6:42 AM on August 25, 2023 [22 favorites]
Mod note: Comments removed. Telling others to "shut the fuck up" is understandable with transphobic comments, but it's still going against the Content Policy.
Overall, let's move on from responding to that person's comments, as they've been asked to refrain from posting further.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:49 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Overall, let's move on from responding to that person's comments, as they've been asked to refrain from posting further.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:49 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: More transphobic comments and response removed, zengargoyle has been temporarily banned for 24 hours and warned about this behavior.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:18 AM on August 25, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:18 AM on August 25, 2023 [16 favorites]
You'd think the thread directly addressing efforts at eradicating us from the US would be the thread where cis people can muster enough respect to not just keep posting transphobia. But no.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 8:46 AM on August 25, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 8:46 AM on August 25, 2023 [20 favorites]
10+ years ago a transwoman friend of mine told me the worst part about starting her transition was that every time she informed someone they'd say some variation of "you're so brave" and she'd react like "brave? this is literally me doing what is necessary to become myself"
In the time since, she's suggested that it was a subconscious acknowledgment that she'd be massively increasing the difficulty level of life. These days there's nothing subconscious about it; bigots are emboldened and gender expression is a political football.
posted by Molesome at 9:05 AM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
In the time since, she's suggested that it was a subconscious acknowledgment that she'd be massively increasing the difficulty level of life. These days there's nothing subconscious about it; bigots are emboldened and gender expression is a political football.
posted by Molesome at 9:05 AM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
It took me forty years to unwind myself enough to admit I was trans to myself, knowing the possibilities it would have both good and bad.
Yeah, right now I'm in a 3D headspace (dysphoria, dysmorphia and depression), but that's me. I'm glad I chose to transition, despite the loss of my entire family. I got to choose my own name, I got to decide about a lot of things I never got to decide before and were just assumed for me.
I'm more myself than I have been in my life. I run into weird issues sometimes, but that's me still unwinding in my own head. But I'm going to fight to be myself.
Being myself involves estradiol, spironolactone, progesterone, Jecca Blac, E.L.F., Garnier, CeraVe, and Maybelline. Trying to stop me... others have tried, and now that I'm free, they won't stop me again.
posted by mephron at 9:14 AM on August 25, 2023 [20 favorites]
Yeah, right now I'm in a 3D headspace (dysphoria, dysmorphia and depression), but that's me. I'm glad I chose to transition, despite the loss of my entire family. I got to choose my own name, I got to decide about a lot of things I never got to decide before and were just assumed for me.
I'm more myself than I have been in my life. I run into weird issues sometimes, but that's me still unwinding in my own head. But I'm going to fight to be myself.
Being myself involves estradiol, spironolactone, progesterone, Jecca Blac, E.L.F., Garnier, CeraVe, and Maybelline. Trying to stop me... others have tried, and now that I'm free, they won't stop me again.
posted by mephron at 9:14 AM on August 25, 2023 [20 favorites]
Let's take this premise to it's logical conclusion. People below the age of the majority are too young to be making important decisions about how their bodies develop. What if a minor makes the wrong decision about what hormones they go through puberty with and then regrets it? To solve this problem I am making a Modest Proposal that all minors be put on puberty blockers at the onset of puberty and will only be allowed to go through puberty, whether natal or cross-sex, once they have reached the age of the majority and after extensive psychological screening to determine that they really are ready for what these hormones will do to their body. Since our only goal is making sure that people are making informed, adult choices, about the changes that happen to their bodies (and not some ulterior motive like upholding cis-normativity) I don't see how there could be any possible objection to this. If minors who say they are trans can't be trusted to make decisions about how their bodies develop at that age it seems only fair to hold children who say that they are cis, and those who are simply assumed to be cis, to the same standard. If the only goal is to reduce the number of people who regret the effect that exposure to undesired sex hormones had on their body development this will be very effective because it will reduce both the (very small) number of de-transitioning people who regret taking cross-sex hormones as well as also greatly reducing the (much larger) number of trans people who regret the changes caused by undergoing natal puberty, and the cis people who end up wanting to undergo natal puberty will be able to resume that process once we deem them competent to know who they are and how they want their bodies to develop. This also has a bonus effect that both trans and cis people will undergo the same hormonal development schedule so all the people worried about fairness in sports will get what they are asking for (presuming that the concern is fairness as measured by hormonal development and not some ulterior motive).
Personally I would prefer if there was some alternative that allowed people, even younger people, the ability to exercise bodily autonomy but if our base premise is that people below the age of the majority are incapable of understanding the implications of going through hormonal changes then our only (fair, non-cis-normative) option is a policy that applies this assumption uniformly across all gender identities.
posted by metaphorever at 9:58 AM on August 25, 2023 [15 favorites]
Personally I would prefer if there was some alternative that allowed people, even younger people, the ability to exercise bodily autonomy but if our base premise is that people below the age of the majority are incapable of understanding the implications of going through hormonal changes then our only (fair, non-cis-normative) option is a policy that applies this assumption uniformly across all gender identities.
posted by metaphorever at 9:58 AM on August 25, 2023 [15 favorites]
You'd think the thread directly addressing efforts at eradicating us from the US would be the thread where cis people can muster enough respect to not just keep posting transphobia. But no.
of course not
that's the thing--the specific user who's been asked to take a break thinks they were being respectful, only speaking to "reasonable concerns" and "explaining what people think"; they'd never be overtly bigoted and even believe they're supportive, on the whole, and when it's pointed out as being blatant transphobia, a classic and typical repetition of wholesale bigotry dressed up in fake concern, people like that can then make the argument that "trans people call everything transphobia" and "trans people don't want to have a reasonable discussion."
maybe one of my responses was a wee bit intemperate, but this is a pattern that is repeated at scale and regularity: on here, on reddit, on ars technica's message boards, on twitter, on facebook, on discords, in the new york times, in the guardian, in the atlantic, in the new yorker, in new york magazine, on 60 minutes, and almost never do any of the people bringing up those "reasonable concerns" actually want a discussion, they just want a socially acceptable way to post their bigoted bullshit that moderators will leave because they're juuuust within bounds and we're all here to learn and discuss.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:08 AM on August 25, 2023 [31 favorites]
of course not
that's the thing--the specific user who's been asked to take a break thinks they were being respectful, only speaking to "reasonable concerns" and "explaining what people think"; they'd never be overtly bigoted and even believe they're supportive, on the whole, and when it's pointed out as being blatant transphobia, a classic and typical repetition of wholesale bigotry dressed up in fake concern, people like that can then make the argument that "trans people call everything transphobia" and "trans people don't want to have a reasonable discussion."
maybe one of my responses was a wee bit intemperate, but this is a pattern that is repeated at scale and regularity: on here, on reddit, on ars technica's message boards, on twitter, on facebook, on discords, in the new york times, in the guardian, in the atlantic, in the new yorker, in new york magazine, on 60 minutes, and almost never do any of the people bringing up those "reasonable concerns" actually want a discussion, they just want a socially acceptable way to post their bigoted bullshit that moderators will leave because they're juuuust within bounds and we're all here to learn and discuss.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:08 AM on August 25, 2023 [31 favorites]
Assigned Media: Jamie Reed’s Allegations Are Not Even Partially Confirmed
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:28 AM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:28 AM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
This may be better (or...worse?) as an Ask, but aside from some of the well-known activists linked above and Erin Reed from the OP, where do we find the best organizers and on-the-ground support and activism networks? I guess this is just a "what the fuck do we DO?"
Reed's analyses never seem to get to that part. Voting is necessary but also kind of pointless and not enough. Being "supportive" is an individual action - we have already had The Talk with our friends outside of California about what we can provide if they need rapid extraction or help making a plan, and we are prepared to follow through. We continue to try to decide if we should move somewhere we could leverage our privileges to make good trouble, or go somewhere to firm up a purple spot. I don't want to reinvent this wheel, I would like to take my guidance from people who are smarter than me and probably clearer-eyed.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:44 AM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Reed's analyses never seem to get to that part. Voting is necessary but also kind of pointless and not enough. Being "supportive" is an individual action - we have already had The Talk with our friends outside of California about what we can provide if they need rapid extraction or help making a plan, and we are prepared to follow through. We continue to try to decide if we should move somewhere we could leverage our privileges to make good trouble, or go somewhere to firm up a purple spot. I don't want to reinvent this wheel, I would like to take my guidance from people who are smarter than me and probably clearer-eyed.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:44 AM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just wanted to chime in a little thank you to the mods. My middle-aged trans ass long ago retired from arguing on the internet so i appreciate y'all stepping in and stepping up
posted by Maaik at 12:35 PM on August 25, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Maaik at 12:35 PM on August 25, 2023 [17 favorites]
Well, there's systemic change and individual stuff and we need both. Systemic change I think would be politics. For one tangible example of individual stuff, there's tons of mutual aid funding request hashtags. People needing money to leave, to re-establish themselves elsewhere, to support others in leaving, staying, etc.
posted by aniola at 3:17 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by aniola at 3:17 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's probably people on metafilter, too, for that matter.
posted by aniola at 3:37 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 3:37 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think it's important to get away from the idea that the place you live is "safe for trans people". Nowhere is truly safe. It's all "there but for the grace of God..." But cis people can insert themselves places (like, say, school boards) where there isn't necessarily a current need for change or activism to be bulwarks against the far right. At the end of the day, there aren't that many trans people, which means that, while we can do a lot for ourselves, we can't do things that just take a lot of bodies.
posted by hoyland at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2023 [10 favorites]
You'd think the thread directly addressing efforts at eradicating us from the US would be the thread where cis people can muster enough respect to not just keep posting transphobia.As a cis-gender man in a more-or-less nuclear family…yeah. I feel like more listening, less talking is in order for me, empathizing and galvanizing my support and activism for my trans brothers and sisters and all in between. In a time where trans people are literally fighting for their lives, anything less than unconditional solidarity on my part feels misplaced.
I dunno, maybe it helps to know and love someone who’s trans? Because to know a trans person today is to know someone who lives in danger, no matter where they are, as hoyland says. The thought of my loved ones living in danger, in fear, just for being who they are, is both heart wrenching and sickening.
Anyway, I don’t have much more to contribute, other than my unconditional solidarity. Thanks for posting this, aniola.
posted by Brak at 12:49 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Comment removed. Please speak for yourself and not others, mindful of context and avoid insensitive comments. Remember the Community Guidelines and Content Policy
Otherwise, we can wrap up this derail about whether people have it all figured out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 9:35 AM on August 26, 2023
Otherwise, we can wrap up this derail about whether people have it all figured out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 9:35 AM on August 26, 2023
California Republicans To Try Anti-Trans Ballot Initiatives - Prop 8 All Over Again?: In what may bring back memories of Proposition 8, the ill-fated initiative banning gay marriage that was ruled unconstitutional, California may see anti-trans ballot initiatives introduced soon.
posted by aniola at 10:15 AM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by aniola at 10:15 AM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Canada issues travel warning to the U.S.
posted by aniola at 12:00 PM on August 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by aniola at 12:00 PM on August 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
That same article mentions the situation in Uganda. This article is related (so you know it's coming, there are mentions of violence): A lesbian refugee from Uganda is doing her best to assist LGBT people living in a refugee camp in Kenya. You can help her.
posted by aniola at 7:40 PM on September 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by aniola at 7:40 PM on September 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
How U.S. Evangelicals Helped Homophobia Flourish in Africa: Anti-gay sentiment had previously existed on the continent, but white American religious groups have given it a boost.
posted by aniola at 7:48 PM on September 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 7:48 PM on September 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Most Americans Want Politicians to Stop Attacking Trans People: In a new survey, only 17% said that politicians should focus on restricting gender-affirming care.
posted by aniola at 12:47 PM on September 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 12:47 PM on September 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by GamblingBlues at 8:01 AM on August 24, 2023 [8 favorites]