free speech
March 2, 2007 10:51 AM Subscribe
I love how the accusation the Jawa keeps coming back to is, "knowingly contributed news articles to [a] website."
posted by grobstein at 10:55 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by grobstein at 10:55 AM on March 2, 2007
From the "no" link: Mike Adams, associate professor of sociology and criminal justice at the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, says
[Pino] deserves to be arrested and sent to an island off the coast of North America, stripped naked, interrogated, and, if necessary, tortured to ascertain the extent of his involvement in assisting our enemies."posted by grobstein at 10:59 AM on March 2, 2007
Wow. I can't look in any direction on this one without seing screwballs of one stripe or another. Next article.
posted by stenseng at 10:59 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by stenseng at 10:59 AM on March 2, 2007
Wow, Mike Adams seems like more of a danger than Pino. Oh, and this post? Not so good, thanks.
posted by klangklangston at 11:00 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 11:00 AM on March 2, 2007
What a fucking mess.
posted by boo_radley at 11:02 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by boo_radley at 11:02 AM on March 2, 2007
There can be no disagreement. Either someone alleges it or nobody does. From the fact that you've posted a link, apparently someone does allege it. So he's an alleged terrorist.
posted by DU at 11:04 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by DU at 11:04 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
I love how the accusation the Jawa keeps coming back to is, "knowingly contributed news articles to [a] website."
"But it's not illegal to post to Metafilter," said one boiling frog to the other.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:05 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
"But it's not illegal to post to Metafilter," said one boiling frog to the other.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:05 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
So, are we at the point where we start arresting, beating etc of people because of things they write? I'd like to know because I'm sure in such a place I can find work as banally evil henchman... or overlord, depends on how I feel the day i apply.
posted by edgeways at 11:05 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by edgeways at 11:05 AM on March 2, 2007
When confused liberal intellectuals get called on their shit, one of two things will occur:
1) They will close their eyes, cover their ears and shout "Free specch! Free speech! Free speech!"
2) They will walk away, mumbling something about "starting a dialogue."
The world totally doesn't need another Ward Churchill.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:07 AM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
1) They will close their eyes, cover their ears and shout "Free specch! Free speech! Free speech!"
2) They will walk away, mumbling something about "starting a dialogue."
The world totally doesn't need another Ward Churchill.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:07 AM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
utini!
posted by boo_radley at 11:13 AM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by boo_radley at 11:13 AM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm confused; is it wrong to contribute to sites that support terrorism in general, or just ones that support Islamic terrorism? Because this guy appears to support LGF, which last time I looked was filled with people loudly and bloodthirstily advocating terrorism against pretty much everyone except white Republicans.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:13 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:13 AM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
The guy seems disingenuous when he says it is not a matter of what he says but rather of Free Speech. Without getting into the stuf he seems to advocate, Free Speech does not mean that one can say anything and everything and no one has the right to stop such actions. If, for example, someone said: "let's emasculate this fucker and hang him," is that free speech or could he complain to the police and they would arrest me.
posted by Postroad at 11:15 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by Postroad at 11:15 AM on March 2, 2007
Former Clevelander involved in the antiwar movement here.
I know and have spoken on platforms with Julio, and I believe that he's not a terrorist. He's engaged in anti-war work in the plain normal peaceful words and placards style anti-war movement. He speaks plainly and clearly about the occupation in Palestine and Iraq and does not advocate violent jihad. I have never heard him advocate jihad, not even once. The Bloghi blog, Adams doesn't show any ties to Julio at all, and Julio does not claim responsibility for it. Julio HAS, however, worked hard in support of muslim and asian immigrants threatened by islamophobia.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:15 AM on March 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
I know and have spoken on platforms with Julio, and I believe that he's not a terrorist. He's engaged in anti-war work in the plain normal peaceful words and placards style anti-war movement. He speaks plainly and clearly about the occupation in Palestine and Iraq and does not advocate violent jihad. I have never heard him advocate jihad, not even once. The Bloghi blog, Adams doesn't show any ties to Julio at all, and Julio does not claim responsibility for it. Julio HAS, however, worked hard in support of muslim and asian immigrants threatened by islamophobia.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:15 AM on March 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
Kent State Professor alleged terrorist?
Eh, I'm sure the National Guard will take care of it.
posted by vorfeed at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
Eh, I'm sure the National Guard will take care of it.
posted by vorfeed at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
and, sigh, because it's probably necessary in this day and age: I do not condone or endorse any terrorism or any attack on civilians anywhere in the world, whatsoever.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2007
The real question is, what with the notorious difficulty of finding tenure to support your liberal arts Ph.D, just what did this Prof. do to beat out the competition?
posted by Kirklander at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by Kirklander at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2007
"But it's not illegal to post to Metafilter," said one boiling frog to the other.
My kingdom for an IMG tag.
posted by interrobang at 11:22 AM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
My kingdom for an IMG tag.
posted by interrobang at 11:22 AM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
The world totally doesn't need another Ward Churchill.
Maybe, maybe not--that's not the question.
posted by DU at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2007
Maybe, maybe not--that's not the question.
posted by DU at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2007
Thank you "by the grace of God" for commenting. I'm terribly confused by this situation. I don't understand how he can be accused of writing such things with no evidence. yet, i'd be extremely pissed if i was paying this guys salary if the accusations were true. there is a lot of passionate, ignorant talk of all this, i just wanted to get to some truth.
posted by sadie01221975 at 11:26 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by sadie01221975 at 11:26 AM on March 2, 2007
My kingdom to give interrobang back the IMG tag
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:28 AM on March 2, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:28 AM on March 2, 2007 [4 favorites]
By The Grace of God, thank you for redeeming this trainwreck.
posted by boo_radley at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by boo_radley at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
Another thing - if julio contributed to the site, people write pieces that get syndicated and republished online without permission. Pro Palestine stuff in the West often gets republished on Islamist or Middle Eastern sites, that also carry content that is deemed proscribed by the authorities or by right wingers. What should happen then? We don't know the details.
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by By The Grace of God at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
I think if "some say 'yes'", then he is definitely an alleged terrorist.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2007
May I be an "alleged terrorist" too? "Alleged terrorist" is the new Black, and Black is cool. Hiphop for Allah, mofos!
posted by davy at 11:40 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by davy at 11:40 AM on March 2, 2007
Nine paragraphs into the first link, the Jawa author Godwins his argument. Brilliant. Pass.
posted by beelzbubba at 11:44 AM on March 2, 2007
posted by beelzbubba at 11:44 AM on March 2, 2007
What drJimmy said.
If the guy is a jihadist working as a professor , then he should be shunned and ridiculed.
posted by sfts2 at 12:04 PM on March 2, 2007
If the guy is a jihadist working as a professor , then he should be shunned and ridiculed.
posted by sfts2 at 12:04 PM on March 2, 2007
Also, could the accusations and rebuttals be any less clear? When the fuck did people stop being able to write clear, concise English? Everyone's trying to be witty, obtusely sarcastic, or nobly above it all. No one is trying to effectively communicate.
It's like reading Metafilter.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:09 PM on March 2, 2007
It's like reading Metafilter.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:09 PM on March 2, 2007
When confused liberal intellectuals get called on their shit, one of two things will occur:
1) They will close their eyes, cover their ears and shout "Free specch! Free speech! Free speech!"
2) They will walk away, mumbling something about "starting a dialogue."
The world totally doesn't need another Ward Churchill.
Was Ward Churchill ever "part" of the world? I mean other then right-wing nutbars no one cares about that guy at all. And no one cares about this guy either. The whole point of free speech is that people get to spout all kinds of shit if they want too. If you don't like it, don't listen.
The guy seems disingenuous when he says it is not a matter of what he says but rather of Free Speech. Without getting into the stuf he seems to advocate, Free Speech does not mean that one can say anything and everything and no one has the right to stop such actions. If, for example, someone said: "let's emasculate this fucker and hang him," is that free speech or could he complain to the police and they would arrest me.
That he's being disingenuous does not follow from the fact that it is possible to get in trouble for advocating specific acts of violence. no one is accusing him of doing so and so, he is not being disingenuous at all.
posted by delmoi at 12:12 PM on March 2, 2007
1) They will close their eyes, cover their ears and shout "Free specch! Free speech! Free speech!"
2) They will walk away, mumbling something about "starting a dialogue."
The world totally doesn't need another Ward Churchill.
Was Ward Churchill ever "part" of the world? I mean other then right-wing nutbars no one cares about that guy at all. And no one cares about this guy either. The whole point of free speech is that people get to spout all kinds of shit if they want too. If you don't like it, don't listen.
The guy seems disingenuous when he says it is not a matter of what he says but rather of Free Speech. Without getting into the stuf he seems to advocate, Free Speech does not mean that one can say anything and everything and no one has the right to stop such actions. If, for example, someone said: "let's emasculate this fucker and hang him," is that free speech or could he complain to the police and they would arrest me.
That he's being disingenuous does not follow from the fact that it is possible to get in trouble for advocating specific acts of violence. no one is accusing him of doing so and so, he is not being disingenuous at all.
posted by delmoi at 12:12 PM on March 2, 2007
Mike Adams, associate professor of sociology and criminal justice at the University of North Carolina-Wilmington, says
Academia is way too liberal.
posted by PEAK OIL at 12:31 PM on March 2, 2007
[Pino] deserves to be arrested and sent to an island off the coast of North America, stripped naked, interrogated, and, if necessary, tortured to ascertain the extent of his involvement in assisting our enemies."
Academia is way too liberal.
posted by PEAK OIL at 12:31 PM on March 2, 2007
here's a fun activity: re-read the thread, replacing the words terrorist or jihadist with communist.
posted by PEAK OIL at 12:35 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by PEAK OIL at 12:35 PM on March 2, 2007
PEAK OIL: here's a fun activity: re-read the thread, replacing the words terrorist or jihadist with communist.
OK: here's a fun activity: re-read the thread, replacing the words communist or communist with communist.
Hmmm not sure what that will accomplish.
posted by mach at 12:43 PM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
OK: here's a fun activity: re-read the thread, replacing the words communist or communist with communist.
Hmmm not sure what that will accomplish.
posted by mach at 12:43 PM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
Maybe, maybe not--that's not the question.
DU: you're a twit. You think we should have another Ward Churchill? Maybe?
posted by chlorus at 12:46 PM on March 2, 2007
DU: you're a twit. You think we should have another Ward Churchill? Maybe?
posted by chlorus at 12:46 PM on March 2, 2007
You just don't know how to have fun, mach.
posted by voltairemodern at 12:49 PM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by voltairemodern at 12:49 PM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
How did my name get invoked here? For the record, I have never advocated jihad or attended Kent State.
posted by wendell at 12:51 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by wendell at 12:51 PM on March 2, 2007
Further proof that any asshole in America can get a PhD.
Have any of you actually looked at the shit on Pino's blog? He hasn't denied involvement with it, only defended it as free speech.
posted by chlorus at 12:55 PM on March 2, 2007
Have any of you actually looked at the shit on Pino's blog? He hasn't denied involvement with it, only defended it as free speech.
posted by chlorus at 12:55 PM on March 2, 2007
The world totally doesn't need another Ward Churchill.
Too late!
posted by homunculus at 1:04 PM on March 2, 2007
Too late!
posted by homunculus at 1:04 PM on March 2, 2007
US citizens are quite specifically allowed to have opinions that differ from those held by the majority.
They are even allowed to worship silly sky men and to advocate torturing potentialy innocent people.
posted by Megafly at 1:05 PM on March 2, 2007
They are even allowed to worship silly sky men and to advocate torturing potentialy innocent people.
posted by Megafly at 1:05 PM on March 2, 2007
chlorus: I don't see anywhere that it's Pino's blog. Just that someone says it is. Can you find where it really say it is Pino's? Or that Pino's says it's his? Thanks in advance..
posted by boo_radley at 1:08 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by boo_radley at 1:08 PM on March 2, 2007
boo_radley: this provides some decent circumstantial evidence, esp. since Pino seems to refuse to actually disavow involvement with the site.
It is entirely possible to be principled and anti-war without supporting the agenda or ideology of the jihadists. It is not just about free speech, this isn't McCarthy all over again, this is about saying and potentially doing things that bring aid and comfort to the enemy.
posted by chlorus at 1:12 PM on March 2, 2007
It is entirely possible to be principled and anti-war without supporting the agenda or ideology of the jihadists. It is not just about free speech, this isn't McCarthy all over again, this is about saying and potentially doing things that bring aid and comfort to the enemy.
posted by chlorus at 1:12 PM on March 2, 2007
The great thing about PhDs is that they are not the bar for intellectual legitimacy.
Rather, a community of peers reviews others' works and weeds out bad ideas.
Therefore, it is quite unnecessary to invoke Ward Churchill as a strawman, or claim that the bar for PhDs is low, since serious academia is often quite capable and willing to oust frauds.
Which is certainly not the case here, when the issue is clearly the right to express unpopular ideas — ironically presented in those terms by Jawa itself.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:15 PM on March 2, 2007
Rather, a community of peers reviews others' works and weeds out bad ideas.
Therefore, it is quite unnecessary to invoke Ward Churchill as a strawman, or claim that the bar for PhDs is low, since serious academia is often quite capable and willing to oust frauds.
Which is certainly not the case here, when the issue is clearly the right to express unpopular ideas — ironically presented in those terms by Jawa itself.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:15 PM on March 2, 2007
"this provides some decent circumstantial evidence, esp. since Pino seems to refuse to actually disavow involvement with the site."
No, it doesn't. And why have you refused to disavow the allegations of child molestation that swirl around you even now? Are you, chlorus, or are you not a child molester?
posted by klangklangston at 1:16 PM on March 2, 2007
No, it doesn't. And why have you refused to disavow the allegations of child molestation that swirl around you even now? Are you, chlorus, or are you not a child molester?
posted by klangklangston at 1:16 PM on March 2, 2007
Oh, and the continued misuse of "jihadist" and the complete fucking retard flag you're flying over the "aid and comfort" makes me suspect that you're aiding and comforting the enemies of American freedom who would have us choose jingoism over justice.
posted by klangklangston at 1:19 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 1:19 PM on March 2, 2007
Zero credibility blog service Pajamas Media reports that batshitinsane wingnut asshole, Dr. Mike Adams, has accused possible crackpot and Kent State professor, Julio Pino, of being a jihadist.
Upon discovering Adams' Townhall column, web reporter Matt Drudge ejaculated.
According to a senior heavenly angel, a visibly frustrated God responded, "Fuck this shit, I've had it with all of 'em. Fuck the whole lot of 'em. I give up. I can't believe I wiped out the dinosaurs for these asstards."
Satan's Chief Spokesdemon declined to comment.
posted by jefbla at 1:21 PM on March 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
Upon discovering Adams' Townhall column, web reporter Matt Drudge ejaculated.
According to a senior heavenly angel, a visibly frustrated God responded, "Fuck this shit, I've had it with all of 'em. Fuck the whole lot of 'em. I give up. I can't believe I wiped out the dinosaurs for these asstards."
Satan's Chief Spokesdemon declined to comment.
posted by jefbla at 1:21 PM on March 2, 2007 [6 favorites]
wow klangklangston, that was a really good argument, dur dur dur dur dur.
posted by chlorus at 1:31 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by chlorus at 1:31 PM on March 2, 2007
Why do you refuse to deny that you're a child molester? Obviously, there must be something there!
posted by klangklangston at 1:34 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 1:34 PM on March 2, 2007
I think we should torture chlorus until he gives up his child-molesting collaborators.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:36 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by mr_roboto at 1:36 PM on March 2, 2007
It's not about child-molesting. It's about free speech.
posted by chlorus at 1:51 PM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by chlorus at 1:51 PM on March 2, 2007 [2 favorites]
That's not decent circumstantial evidence, it's barely circumstantial.
Mike S. Adams has a dry drunk's hard-on for Pino. When he's not busy putting (expletives) in Pino's mouth, he's fabricating scandal: In Adams' article, he says
Well, duh, Mike. As a teacher, I'd expect him to be teaching a majority of his time. These hours are not unusual for any college professor. What hours Assoc. Prof Adams keeps is a mystery; I couldn't reach him or the department secretary by phone. Maybe he was out at the two minute hate.
What can we find, then?
The article he cited about Pino was actually a teapot-tempest about a book called The marketing of evil, focusing on issues of academic freedom. The Townhall article quoted the Dispatch's article verbatim, but does not provide the context that Pino's "no comment" was in regards to The marketing of evil, not the statements about him.
Archive.org substantiates the claim about the blog's title, but I cannot confirm that Pino has called himself "America's most dangerous Muslim". All google results for this phrase cite or link to the townhall article written by Mike Adams. Indeed, a majority of google results about Pino link back to this townhall article.
The Kent State school newspaper notes that "[T]here is no evidence the Web site is authorized by Pino.".
So, you know what? It's a push. Here's a man who's as noted for his punditry on Fox News as he is for anything else, spinning a story about American jihadis hiding under beds.
Homework: Can you find a less tenuous link between global-war and Pino? Are there any web pages that do not link back to townhall.com that make such an allegation?
posted by boo_radley at 2:10 PM on March 2, 2007
Mike S. Adams has a dry drunk's hard-on for Pino. When he's not busy putting (expletives) in Pino's mouth, he's fabricating scandal: In Adams' article, he says
Hardly able to believe what I was reading, I called Pino at his office in Ohio around 4 p.m. According to his secretary, he had not been at work that day (he only has office hours two days of the week).
Well, duh, Mike. As a teacher, I'd expect him to be teaching a majority of his time. These hours are not unusual for any college professor. What hours Assoc. Prof Adams keeps is a mystery; I couldn't reach him or the department secretary by phone. Maybe he was out at the two minute hate.
What can we find, then?
The article he cited about Pino was actually a teapot-tempest about a book called The marketing of evil, focusing on issues of academic freedom. The Townhall article quoted the Dispatch's article verbatim, but does not provide the context that Pino's "no comment" was in regards to The marketing of evil, not the statements about him.
Archive.org substantiates the claim about the blog's title, but I cannot confirm that Pino has called himself "America's most dangerous Muslim". All google results for this phrase cite or link to the townhall article written by Mike Adams. Indeed, a majority of google results about Pino link back to this townhall article.
The Kent State school newspaper notes that "[T]here is no evidence the Web site is authorized by Pino.".
So, you know what? It's a push. Here's a man who's as noted for his punditry on Fox News as he is for anything else, spinning a story about American jihadis hiding under beds.
Homework: Can you find a less tenuous link between global-war and Pino? Are there any web pages that do not link back to townhall.com that make such an allegation?
posted by boo_radley at 2:10 PM on March 2, 2007
Oh, and yes, I did pay for archive access to newspapers and such for that little write up. About $10, all in all.
posted by boo_radley at 2:11 PM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by boo_radley at 2:11 PM on March 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
"It's not about child-molesting. It's about free speech."
Tell it to their parents.
posted by klangklangston at 2:15 PM on March 2, 2007
Tell it to their parents.
posted by klangklangston at 2:15 PM on March 2, 2007
It is rather disturbing that an associate professor of sociology and criminal justice would think that accusations and massaged "circumstantial evidence" are enough to prove that someone is a terrorist and deserving of torture.
posted by papakwanz at 2:34 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by papakwanz at 2:34 PM on March 2, 2007
You're going on my list of people who hate America, papakwanz.
posted by klangklangston at 2:36 PM on March 2, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 2:36 PM on March 2, 2007
I really don't like him for his endorsement of palestinian suicide bombing. However, I have not yet found evidence of "treason and sedition" in his articles.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:41 AM on March 3, 2007
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:41 AM on March 3, 2007
I really don't like him for his endorsement of palestinian suicide bombing. However, I have not yet found evidence of "treason and sedition" in his articles.
If you believe the US is in the business of protecting Israel, that's a very treasonous statement. It's not setting Hummers on fire, though.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:04 AM on March 3, 2007
If you believe the US is in the business of protecting Israel, that's a very treasonous statement. It's not setting Hummers on fire, though.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:04 AM on March 3, 2007
When confused fascist pseudo-intellectuals get called on their shit, one of three things will occur:
Don't blame the liberals for that. Blame this administration, and their pathetic neo-fascist boosters. They fucked this shit up so bad, it's not even funny.
Worst response to a terrorist attack ever.posted by illovich at 6:37 AM on March 3, 2007
- They lazily compare a new personification of evil with an old, tired one with only the most tangential of similarities -- and if they can't find an applicable one, they fall back to Hitler.
- They will grossly distort history to great extents, and if this is not feasible they simply lie.
- Nothing. For some reason, they can just not answer the question, and almost everyone who could keep the shit alive shrugs their shoulders and moves on.
Don't blame the liberals for that. Blame this administration, and their pathetic neo-fascist boosters. They fucked this shit up so bad, it's not even funny.
Worst response to a terrorist attack ever.posted by illovich at 6:37 AM on March 3, 2007
"wow klangklangston, that was a really good argument, dur dur dur dur dur."
Actually, it was pretty good. You probably didn't like it because it touched a nerve.
Seriously, how does it feel to scream that you're for peace and freedom when all you actually demand is war and the elimination of constitutional protections?
Does it feel like a boot stepping on the face of humanity forever?
posted by illovich at 6:56 AM on March 3, 2007
Actually, it was pretty good. You probably didn't like it because it touched a nerve.
Seriously, how does it feel to scream that you're for peace and freedom when all you actually demand is war and the elimination of constitutional protections?
Does it feel like a boot stepping on the face of humanity forever?
posted by illovich at 6:56 AM on March 3, 2007
« Older Saturn | *yawn* Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by solistrato at 10:53 AM on March 2, 2007