Statue of an angel with mobile phone and laptop on 16th century cathedral
April 10, 2011 1:54 AM Subscribe
A statue of an angel holding a mobile phone has been unveiled at St John’s Cathedral in the southern Dutch city of 's-Hertogenbosch.
The cathedral features a lot of statues. Among them gargoyle like statuettes on the flying buttresses.
More pictures of the cathedral.
More pictures of the cathedral.
The subscriber you are trying to reach
GOD
is not available. For fear, press one. For trembling, press two. For sickness unto death, please stay on the line.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:08 AM on April 10, 2011 [42 favorites]
GOD
is not available. For fear, press one. For trembling, press two. For sickness unto death, please stay on the line.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:08 AM on April 10, 2011 [42 favorites]
At first the artist meant to give the angel a jet pack instead of wings.
But this idea did not get approval.
posted by joost de vries at 2:22 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
But this idea did not get approval.
posted by joost de vries at 2:22 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
The LORD conferenced in to Moses and spoke to him from the meeting room. He said, 2 “Skype with the Israelites and say to them: ‘When anyone among you brings an upgrade to the LORD, bring as your offering an device from either the iOS or Android platform. — Leviticus 1:1
posted by secret about box at 2:31 AM on April 10, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by secret about box at 2:31 AM on April 10, 2011 [10 favorites]
"Yeah, so, you know, I was texting the big guy about this funny thing that happened in the rectory between a nun and a priest, but the stupid autocorrect on this thing changed the meaning significantly... I know, right? .... Yeah, really fucking awkward... what's that-- yeah, okay, I've got to go too. Later..."
posted by Rhomboid at 2:34 AM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 2:34 AM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
make me an angel
that flies from 's-Hertogenbosch...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:35 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
that flies from 's-Hertogenbosch...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:35 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Virgin Mobile.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:37 AM on April 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:37 AM on April 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
The Washington National Cathedral has a Darth Vader grotesque, and is consequently still the best cathedral.
posted by nmiell at 2:52 AM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by nmiell at 2:52 AM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
There's an Apostle for that.
posted by ShutterBun at 3:19 AM on April 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by ShutterBun at 3:19 AM on April 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
This makes sense. With the explosion in human beings over the last 150 years and all the complications that entails, angels just do not have time for dashing back and forth to heaven to get new instructions. A cell phone is a perfect gift for your favorite seraph-on-the-go! Plus, it has a really good MP3 player, so even one angel can give a proper Holy! Holy! Holy! on a moment's notice. get with the times, guys.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:21 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:21 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Washington National Cathedral has a Darth Vader grotesque, and is consequently still the best cathedral.
Evidence?
posted by Fizz at 3:53 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Evidence?
posted by Fizz at 3:53 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah no I'm on the church. The CHURCH. Yeah...yeah...it's...no I'm not...I'm on the CHURCH. Yeah. Yeah. I dunno like five minutes away. Yeah, the church. The CHURCH. No...no...yeah...the CHURCH. JESUS CHRIST.
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:55 AM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:55 AM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
Oops voice dial. Hi Jesus! Ummm...what's happening?
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:56 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:56 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Our Lady of Uninterupted Signal
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:03 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:03 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've always heard that choosing to join the clergy is a calling.
posted by howlingmonkey at 4:16 AM on April 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by howlingmonkey at 4:16 AM on April 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
"God? Can you hear me now?"
posted by crunchland at 4:23 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 4:23 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
The number you have dialed is not in service. Please hang up and try your call again. This is a recording.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:26 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 4:26 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Washington National Cathedral has a Darth Vader grotesque, and is consequently still the best cathedral.
Evidence?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Washington+National+Cathedral+has+a+Darth+Vader&l=1
posted by bitslayer at 4:39 AM on April 10, 2011 [11 favorites]
Evidence?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Washington+National+Cathedral+has+a+Darth+Vader&l=1
posted by bitslayer at 4:39 AM on April 10, 2011 [11 favorites]
"Call upon Me in the day of trouble; I will deliver to you in 30 minutes or less, and you shall glorify me. Or it's free."
--Ad slogan for Dominus Peace-a Delivery Service
posted by SomeTrickPony at 4:43 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
--Ad slogan for Dominus Peace-a Delivery Service
posted by SomeTrickPony at 4:43 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
And the LORD took Metatron up to the iPlaces and saith unto him: Metatron, hullo? It is the LORD.
And Metatron heard him not, for he had been dwelling in the valley of Cupertino and had entered into the loops of the infinite, and had forgotten the ways of righteousness.
And the LORD saith again: Hullo? Metatron? Look, I know you're there, I'm good at the knowing thing.
But still Metatron did not answer, for his false idol was deaf, even unto the deafness of a post, such as the high priests of Cupertino worship in the anechoic chambers of the ungodly.
The LORD was furious and mighty in his wrath, and saith to himself: Right. That's the way they want it. I shall smite them.
And the LORD saith: I shall cause a plague of angry birds to descend upon all the Earth, yea. even with a herd of evil swine, so that the race of men shall spend their days in fruitless poking and prodding, and none shall take unto themselves a wife, nor toil fruitfully in the vineyard, nor hit a deadline to save their lives. I'm good at the smiting thing.
Loud were the lamentations on the face of the Earth, and the tribes cried even unto the LORD: You are our god. Give us our life back. It wasn't our fault. Bloody Metatron. It's not as if we were using Windows Phone 7.
The LORD softened his heart, and proclaimed: Although thou art sinful, I shall give this sign: that the batteries of thy gizmos shall be weak and the power drain away to nothing. Rest and be thankful for my mercy.
But the priests of Cupertino were sore affronted and caused to be said throughout the land: The next one will have double the battery life, and the one after that, even unto the ninth generation.
And Metatron, who had by now found the place of signal, read this upon the blogs of the heathen and saith: this will not end well...
posted by Devonian at 4:50 AM on April 10, 2011 [19 favorites]
And Metatron heard him not, for he had been dwelling in the valley of Cupertino and had entered into the loops of the infinite, and had forgotten the ways of righteousness.
And the LORD saith again: Hullo? Metatron? Look, I know you're there, I'm good at the knowing thing.
But still Metatron did not answer, for his false idol was deaf, even unto the deafness of a post, such as the high priests of Cupertino worship in the anechoic chambers of the ungodly.
The LORD was furious and mighty in his wrath, and saith to himself: Right. That's the way they want it. I shall smite them.
And the LORD saith: I shall cause a plague of angry birds to descend upon all the Earth, yea. even with a herd of evil swine, so that the race of men shall spend their days in fruitless poking and prodding, and none shall take unto themselves a wife, nor toil fruitfully in the vineyard, nor hit a deadline to save their lives. I'm good at the smiting thing.
Loud were the lamentations on the face of the Earth, and the tribes cried even unto the LORD: You are our god. Give us our life back. It wasn't our fault. Bloody Metatron. It's not as if we were using Windows Phone 7.
The LORD softened his heart, and proclaimed: Although thou art sinful, I shall give this sign: that the batteries of thy gizmos shall be weak and the power drain away to nothing. Rest and be thankful for my mercy.
But the priests of Cupertino were sore affronted and caused to be said throughout the land: The next one will have double the battery life, and the one after that, even unto the ninth generation.
And Metatron, who had by now found the place of signal, read this upon the blogs of the heathen and saith: this will not end well...
posted by Devonian at 4:50 AM on April 10, 2011 [19 favorites]
Here's the stained-glass panel containing the 9/11 attacks as part of the depiction of hell, as described in the Radio Netherlands article.
I like the cell phone angel. The best of Christian art (especially in cathedrals) contains both modern motifs as well as traditional depictions, and the silly as well as the serious.
The tapestries of the saints at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles, opened in 2002, contain "anonymous" saints that look like regular people of Los Angeles, including young boys wearing sneakers, which created a bit of a furore as stuffy people insisted that never before had the noble art of tapestries been debased by depicting SNEAKERS. To which I say, THPBPBPBPBPT. (A few people were also upset about the normal-person naked baby.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:25 AM on April 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
I like the cell phone angel. The best of Christian art (especially in cathedrals) contains both modern motifs as well as traditional depictions, and the silly as well as the serious.
The tapestries of the saints at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles, opened in 2002, contain "anonymous" saints that look like regular people of Los Angeles, including young boys wearing sneakers, which created a bit of a furore as stuffy people insisted that never before had the noble art of tapestries been debased by depicting SNEAKERS. To which I say, THPBPBPBPBPT. (A few people were also upset about the normal-person naked baby.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:25 AM on April 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
Virgin Mobile.
No, see, that can't be it. Virgin Mobile is from HELL.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:52 AM on April 10, 2011
No, see, that can't be it. Virgin Mobile is from HELL.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:52 AM on April 10, 2011
Wouldn't it make more sense for everyone if the angel was holding a base station antenna instead of a mobile? Not only would the angel radiate more powerfully, she could collect at little rent from the company that owns the antenna, which is nice.
posted by three blind mice at 5:52 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by three blind mice at 5:52 AM on April 10, 2011
What a marvelous church! I love this post so much. Thanks! You made my morning.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:54 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 5:54 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I like the idea of a contemporary figure among the medieval ones on this church. The church is from 1525 and many generations have done their part in preserving it.
A long time from now, a century, centuries, who knows, there will still be a token of the part that this generation played in handing this cathedral to our grandchildren and generations after them.
posted by joost de vries at 6:24 AM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
A long time from now, a century, centuries, who knows, there will still be a token of the part that this generation played in handing this cathedral to our grandchildren and generations after them.
posted by joost de vries at 6:24 AM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
Wonderful - ecclesiastical art should include the contemporary.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:41 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by rmd1023 at 6:41 AM on April 10, 2011
so, future generations will try to figure out why the angel in pants is holding a brick to her face?
posted by ennui.bz at 6:42 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 6:42 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
so, future generations will try to figure out why the angel in pants is holding a brick to her face?
Which brings us to the most important issue -- this angel is sensibly wearing pants. After literally millennia of heavenly visitors floating in the air, leaving awestruck mortals with the difficult choice of a) looking away in embarrassment (thus ruining the whole effect of angels floating majestically in the air) b) staring up the angel's gown in possibly greater embarrassment, or c) staring up the angel's gown in some sort of pervy enjoyment (generally leading to smiting, hell, or both), an angel has hit on the idea of pants. Yay, angel!
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:55 AM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
Which brings us to the most important issue -- this angel is sensibly wearing pants. After literally millennia of heavenly visitors floating in the air, leaving awestruck mortals with the difficult choice of a) looking away in embarrassment (thus ruining the whole effect of angels floating majestically in the air) b) staring up the angel's gown in possibly greater embarrassment, or c) staring up the angel's gown in some sort of pervy enjoyment (generally leading to smiting, hell, or both), an angel has hit on the idea of pants. Yay, angel!
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:55 AM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
And Metatron, who had by now found the place of signal, read this upon the blogs of the heathen and saith: this will not end well...
With Metatron's voice provided by Alan Rickman.
Nthing that cathedral art should include the modern. My response to the 9/11 window (and the angel with the phone and the Vader grotesque) was "somebody gets it". The people who don't like the modern anonymous saints in LA are missing the point.
posted by immlass at 7:05 AM on April 10, 2011
With Metatron's voice provided by Alan Rickman.
Nthing that cathedral art should include the modern. My response to the 9/11 window (and the angel with the phone and the Vader grotesque) was "somebody gets it". The people who don't like the modern anonymous saints in LA are missing the point.
posted by immlass at 7:05 AM on April 10, 2011
Angels don't have gender just like angels don't have free will. Those are human things.
posted by The Whelk at 7:10 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 7:10 AM on April 10, 2011
The people who don't like the modern anonymous saints in LA are missing the point.
How can there be anonymous saints? I don't mind admitting that I'm missing the point (though I'm not saying I dislike these images to which you refer), but I know a bit about saints and I fail to see how there can be anonymous saints.
posted by pompomtom at 7:10 AM on April 10, 2011
How can there be anonymous saints? I don't mind admitting that I'm missing the point (though I'm not saying I dislike these images to which you refer), but I know a bit about saints and I fail to see how there can be anonymous saints.
posted by pompomtom at 7:10 AM on April 10, 2011
Since 1992 there's an astronaut at the cathedral of Salamanca. But these kind of things may be confusing for some people.
posted by radiobishop at 7:11 AM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by radiobishop at 7:11 AM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Angels don't have gender just like angels don't have free will. Those are human things.
So are cellphones. And pants.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:17 AM on April 10, 2011
So are cellphones. And pants.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:17 AM on April 10, 2011
Angels don't have gender just like angels don't have free will. Those are human things.
More bluntly, angels do not have privy parts, therefore looking up the skirt is not an issue. Pants, though comfortable and practical, just don't bring that ethereal awe inspiring quality that you really want in an angel. Ditto cellphones.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:19 AM on April 10, 2011
More bluntly, angels do not have privy parts, therefore looking up the skirt is not an issue. Pants, though comfortable and practical, just don't bring that ethereal awe inspiring quality that you really want in an angel. Ditto cellphones.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:19 AM on April 10, 2011
Grace Cathedral in SF has a glorious stained glass window of Einstein surrounded by symbols of his work, and Cologne Cathedral has pixels. Both here, with some other secular stained-glass goodness.
posted by Devonian at 7:22 AM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 7:22 AM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh, and you do all know that angels don't actually exist? The question of whether they have genitalia and a working knowledge of modern communication devices is a bit moot. Also, they were often depicted in contemporary military uniforms (now there's a movie waiting to be made. May it wait.) and, in the Bible, could apparently be mistaken for ordinary people. With hilarious consequences.
posted by Devonian at 7:35 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 7:35 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
The celestial-to-terrestrial roaming charges are brutal.
posted by anothermug at 7:47 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by anothermug at 7:47 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
More bluntly, angels do not have privy parts, therefore looking up the skirt is not an issue.
It would still be awkward and embarrassing, I would think. And well-tailored slacks can be extremely impressive, in my opinion.If I ever see an angel in this kind of circumstance, I will report back. Assuming I don't get smote, which is what angels often get up to....
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:48 AM on April 10, 2011
It would still be awkward and embarrassing, I would think. And well-tailored slacks can be extremely impressive, in my opinion.If I ever see an angel in this kind of circumstance, I will report back. Assuming I don't get smote, which is what angels often get up to....
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:48 AM on April 10, 2011
Huh, we've got Inmarsat in our product tables, but I don't think I've ever seen Heaven, either Mobile or Proper. I wonder if Heaven implements Number Portability?
posted by kmz at 7:51 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by kmz at 7:51 AM on April 10, 2011
I guess we are back to arguing about how many angels can dance on the hem of a pinstripe again.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:52 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:52 AM on April 10, 2011
It would still be awkward and embarrassing, I would think. And well-tailored slacks can be extremely impressive, in my opinion.If I ever see an angel in this kind of circumstance, I will report back. Assuming I don't get smote, which is what angels often get up to....
Just visit his bookshop.
posted by The Whelk at 7:58 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just visit his bookshop.
posted by The Whelk at 7:58 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ha! I am not sure Gaiman and Pratchett should be taken as the last word in theology (angelology? Is that a word? The internet seems to think so, but then the internet thinks a lot of things). On the other hand, I don't have a good reason why they shouldn't be the last word....
Still, angels with pants and cellphones; I'm all for them, at least as a form of decoration. Throwing down the Fire and the Brimstone? I am less in favor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:08 AM on April 10, 2011
Still, angels with pants and cellphones; I'm all for them, at least as a form of decoration. Throwing down the Fire and the Brimstone? I am less in favor.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:08 AM on April 10, 2011
How can there be anonymous saints?
I'm using the term Eyebrows McGee quoted. From the pictures it looks like they're in some procession of saints but the individuals aren't designed with traditionally representative signs of specific saints. Instead they're made to look like modern people, in this case residents of the city. The point that people are missing is that that's how medieval artists depicted saints a lot of the time: like the people around them. It's not like medieval painters and sculptors had more inside knowledge of how long-dead saints looked and dressed any more than an artist working today does.
(Unless you want to get into divine inspiration, which as an atheist I don't believe in. In any case I'm highly suspicious of divine revelations that favor traditional forms and deprecate modern or unfamiliar representations. I find these more revealing about the people who claim them than the art involved.)
posted by immlass at 8:11 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm using the term Eyebrows McGee quoted. From the pictures it looks like they're in some procession of saints but the individuals aren't designed with traditionally representative signs of specific saints. Instead they're made to look like modern people, in this case residents of the city. The point that people are missing is that that's how medieval artists depicted saints a lot of the time: like the people around them. It's not like medieval painters and sculptors had more inside knowledge of how long-dead saints looked and dressed any more than an artist working today does.
(Unless you want to get into divine inspiration, which as an atheist I don't believe in. In any case I'm highly suspicious of divine revelations that favor traditional forms and deprecate modern or unfamiliar representations. I find these more revealing about the people who claim them than the art involved.)
posted by immlass at 8:11 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Those things DO cause brain cancer! What better proof do we need?
posted by Danf at 8:13 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Danf at 8:13 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Strangely, the first thing I noticed was the angel's man bag.
posted by SPrintF at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by SPrintF at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2011
Apparently the artist intended that as a laptop bag. Which suggests the strong possibility that....
angels read metafilter.
posted by joost de vries at 9:07 AM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
angels read metafilter.
posted by joost de vries at 9:07 AM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
@pompomtom, all Christians, living and dead, are members of the "Communion of Saints." Official saints are just, you know, official. :) But it's perfectly proper to refer to any Christian as a "saint" if you want to. (And it makes parts of Paul's letters make a heck of a lot more sense.)
Part of what makes the tapestries in Los Angeles so powerful is that, if you notice, all the depicted figures are looking at the altar and worshiping with the congregation ... it's a very powerful, visual depiction of this idea of the communion of saints and that all Christians, living and dead, are part of the same body. It's literally making you all part of the same congregation. So it's nice that some "anonymous" (and modern) saints are included, to even more closely tie the "great" saints of history in the tapestries to the lowly, everyday saints in the pews.
Another thing that's nice about the tapestries is that a lot of the early saints get their ethnicities back -- Felicity and Perpetua, for example -- since it was so common to depict all saints as lily-white in European religious art. Understandable in many historic cases, but today, if we know a saint was North African, it's a little silly to depict him as if he were the most Swedish dude ever. That was a deliberate choice to better have the tapestries reflect the ethnic diversity of modern Angelinos -- and many of the lesser-known saints were chosen to reflect that diversity as well -- and all of the life-models for the tapestries were local people. Which is another way of tying the local, modern congregation to the whole diversity and history of the Church and the entirety of the "Communion of Saints."
Which brings us to the angel wearing jeans (one of the articles says they're jeans) and carrying a cellphone -- it's important that religious art (as a whole, not in each individual piece) represent the whole history of the Church. In a building like a cathedral, the art SHOULD wed the ancient and the historic and the recent and the modern. It's an ongoing narrative of the life of the people of God; it didn't just STOP 2000 years ago. And there's definitely value to things hallowed by time, but if that's the only thing hallowing them, ur doin it rong. If pants and cell phones seem not religious enough to you (general you, not you-you, pompomtom), your idea of religion is a bit narrow. The Franciscan Friar who married me always wore a beeper on his rope belt ... he got beeped to the local jail a lot because he was the only semi-authority-figure locally who could translate from Spanish. Slightly incongruous, yes, but hardly irreligious.
As others noted above, many cathedrals that have undergone renovations since WWII now have stained glass windows that include atoms, astronauts, DNA, and other nifty modern things. It's quite traditional to have panels in stained glass windows that depict human labor of various sorts (smiths, wheelwrights, etc.), often with associated patron saints; so of course as we come up with new and nifty human discoveries, that too should be included in the stained glass windows.
I saw a piece of religious mural art with a trompe l'oeil border (as is common), with little hidden figures in the border (also common) from the original muralist's times. The restorer who restored the border and the mural added a couple of his own little hidden figures in the border (also typical), including a tiny Kermit the Frog. Finding the art is left as an exercise for the reader. ;)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:09 AM on April 10, 2011 [13 favorites]
Part of what makes the tapestries in Los Angeles so powerful is that, if you notice, all the depicted figures are looking at the altar and worshiping with the congregation ... it's a very powerful, visual depiction of this idea of the communion of saints and that all Christians, living and dead, are part of the same body. It's literally making you all part of the same congregation. So it's nice that some "anonymous" (and modern) saints are included, to even more closely tie the "great" saints of history in the tapestries to the lowly, everyday saints in the pews.
Another thing that's nice about the tapestries is that a lot of the early saints get their ethnicities back -- Felicity and Perpetua, for example -- since it was so common to depict all saints as lily-white in European religious art. Understandable in many historic cases, but today, if we know a saint was North African, it's a little silly to depict him as if he were the most Swedish dude ever. That was a deliberate choice to better have the tapestries reflect the ethnic diversity of modern Angelinos -- and many of the lesser-known saints were chosen to reflect that diversity as well -- and all of the life-models for the tapestries were local people. Which is another way of tying the local, modern congregation to the whole diversity and history of the Church and the entirety of the "Communion of Saints."
Which brings us to the angel wearing jeans (one of the articles says they're jeans) and carrying a cellphone -- it's important that religious art (as a whole, not in each individual piece) represent the whole history of the Church. In a building like a cathedral, the art SHOULD wed the ancient and the historic and the recent and the modern. It's an ongoing narrative of the life of the people of God; it didn't just STOP 2000 years ago. And there's definitely value to things hallowed by time, but if that's the only thing hallowing them, ur doin it rong. If pants and cell phones seem not religious enough to you (general you, not you-you, pompomtom), your idea of religion is a bit narrow. The Franciscan Friar who married me always wore a beeper on his rope belt ... he got beeped to the local jail a lot because he was the only semi-authority-figure locally who could translate from Spanish. Slightly incongruous, yes, but hardly irreligious.
As others noted above, many cathedrals that have undergone renovations since WWII now have stained glass windows that include atoms, astronauts, DNA, and other nifty modern things. It's quite traditional to have panels in stained glass windows that depict human labor of various sorts (smiths, wheelwrights, etc.), often with associated patron saints; so of course as we come up with new and nifty human discoveries, that too should be included in the stained glass windows.
I saw a piece of religious mural art with a trompe l'oeil border (as is common), with little hidden figures in the border (also common) from the original muralist's times. The restorer who restored the border and the mural added a couple of his own little hidden figures in the border (also typical), including a tiny Kermit the Frog. Finding the art is left as an exercise for the reader. ;)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:09 AM on April 10, 2011 [13 favorites]
Here's another bit of modern iconography, if you like -- Fr. Mychal Judge, the FDNY chaplain who was killed ministering to the fire fighters at the Twin Towers when the first tower fell, is already depicted in religious art, almost always in his Franciscan habit and carrying his FDNY helmet.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:18 AM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:18 AM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
There is a small stained glass window in a united church here in toronto, that depicts a dude mowing his lawn. I always found that wonderuflly holy.
I wished i liked the LA tapestries more--the theology is good to great on them, and they don't have the weird icon painting style of Lentz that always struck me as a little missing the point, but aesthetically they do little for me.
Now, the Richter window, that's something!
posted by PinkMoose at 9:20 AM on April 10, 2011
I wished i liked the LA tapestries more--the theology is good to great on them, and they don't have the weird icon painting style of Lentz that always struck me as a little missing the point, but aesthetically they do little for me.
Now, the Richter window, that's something!
posted by PinkMoose at 9:20 AM on April 10, 2011
That is the 16th century cathedral equivalent of getting a tramp stamp. 100 years from now, who's going to know what a cell phone is?
posted by jenniferteeter at 10:07 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by jenniferteeter at 10:07 AM on April 10, 2011
Among them gargoyle like statuettes on the flying buttresses.
Technically, a gargoyle has a water spout, non-spouting gargoyles are grotesques (thanks QI).
posted by doctor_negative at 10:32 AM on April 10, 2011
Technically, a gargoyle has a water spout, non-spouting gargoyles are grotesques (thanks QI).
posted by doctor_negative at 10:32 AM on April 10, 2011
The angels have the phonebox!
posted by pemberkins at 10:51 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by pemberkins at 10:51 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
"That is the 16th century cathedral equivalent of getting a tramp stamp. 100 years from now, who's going to know what a cell phone is?"
Because when you visit 16th-century cathedrals, the statuary in 16th-century clothing, feature 16th-century iconography, doing 16th-century things stands out as trashy?
The art of 1500 or 1600 isn't unique in that it showed The Truth Of Christianity For All Time. It's just, for whatever reason, people have decided, "Oh, yes, that weirdly anachronistic 16th century wealthy aristocrat's outfit Mary is wearing MUST be what Mary really wore in Biblical times! But putting her in blue jeans, THAT'D be heretical! Much too modern! Not reverent enough!"
(Also, go to your average 16th-century cathedral, and maybe 1% of tourist visitors know ANYTHING about the iconography of the place, even when it's super-common and "obvious" -- I can't remember how many times I've reminded my husband that the dude with the upsidedown cross is Peter. Who's going to know what any of it is?)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:54 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Because when you visit 16th-century cathedrals, the statuary in 16th-century clothing, feature 16th-century iconography, doing 16th-century things stands out as trashy?
The art of 1500 or 1600 isn't unique in that it showed The Truth Of Christianity For All Time. It's just, for whatever reason, people have decided, "Oh, yes, that weirdly anachronistic 16th century wealthy aristocrat's outfit Mary is wearing MUST be what Mary really wore in Biblical times! But putting her in blue jeans, THAT'D be heretical! Much too modern! Not reverent enough!"
(Also, go to your average 16th-century cathedral, and maybe 1% of tourist visitors know ANYTHING about the iconography of the place, even when it's super-common and "obvious" -- I can't remember how many times I've reminded my husband that the dude with the upsidedown cross is Peter. Who's going to know what any of it is?)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:54 AM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wat Rong Khun, the White Temple, has Superman, Neo, a Transformer, and a Na'vi.
posted by merelyglib at 10:57 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by merelyglib at 10:57 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
(Also, go to your average 16th-century cathedral, and maybe 1% of tourist visitors know ANYTHING about the iconography of the place, even when it's super-common and "obvious" -- I can't remember how many times I've reminded my husband that the dude with the upsidedown cross is Peter. Who's going to know what any of it is?)
Umberto Eco has a great scene late in The Name of the Rose where the main character is pretty much awash in saints -- trying to spot them from their attributions is an enjoyable puzzle (for a certain kind of iconography nerd, I admit). But what do you expect from a Semiotician?
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:57 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Umberto Eco has a great scene late in The Name of the Rose where the main character is pretty much awash in saints -- trying to spot them from their attributions is an enjoyable puzzle (for a certain kind of iconography nerd, I admit). But what do you expect from a Semiotician?
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:57 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Pinkmoose, is there a way I can tell you how much I love the word wonderuflly without seeming like I'm making fun of your typo? Seriously, I'm on my 5th consecutive 14 hour work day, and that's making me very happy.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:01 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:01 AM on April 10, 2011
What's that plan like? I bet it beats Verizon.
posted by Alcibiades. at 11:48 AM on April 10, 2011
posted by Alcibiades. at 11:48 AM on April 10, 2011
Clearly it is an ear horn or a radio. We covered this a few months ago.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:38 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:38 PM on April 10, 2011
The angels have the phonebox.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 3:06 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 3:06 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
On preview: beat!
'Thank the Lord for sending his angels in a 59 Mercury for lightning fast getaways.'
I'm hoping this is a statue of Castiel from Supernatural.
But seriously I love the integration of modern and religious iconography. Usually in an urban fantasy or musical context, mind you.
In DC did I see a Darth Vader gargoyle on a cathedral or am I misremembering?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 3:16 PM on April 10, 2011
'Thank the Lord for sending his angels in a 59 Mercury for lightning fast getaways.'
I'm hoping this is a statue of Castiel from Supernatural.
But seriously I love the integration of modern and religious iconography. Usually in an urban fantasy or musical context, mind you.
In DC did I see a Darth Vader gargoyle on a cathedral or am I misremembering?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 3:16 PM on April 10, 2011
Because when you visit 16th-century cathedrals, the statuary in 16th-century clothing, feature 16th-century iconography, doing 16th-century things stands out as trashy?
I wasn't comparing it on trashiness, but rather the probability of regret later. I would hope that they have plans of keeping St. Johns standing for a very long time, and it seems creating a very permanent tribute to a trend in technology, albeit a very large and important trend*, might be a bad idea.
*That is not to say that cell phone technology isn't important, or that it is a fad, or that we won't be using similar technology for a very long time, but rather that the physical small rectangular chunk of plastic that you hold up to your head seems, to me, an already vanishing icon.
posted by jenniferteeter at 3:56 PM on April 10, 2011
I wasn't comparing it on trashiness, but rather the probability of regret later. I would hope that they have plans of keeping St. Johns standing for a very long time, and it seems creating a very permanent tribute to a trend in technology, albeit a very large and important trend*, might be a bad idea.
*That is not to say that cell phone technology isn't important, or that it is a fad, or that we won't be using similar technology for a very long time, but rather that the physical small rectangular chunk of plastic that you hold up to your head seems, to me, an already vanishing icon.
posted by jenniferteeter at 3:56 PM on April 10, 2011
Better a plastic rectangle than a bluetooth earpiece.
posted by ryanrs at 4:23 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 4:23 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
And well-tailored slacks can be extremely impressive, in my opinion.
No doubt, though frankly those pants don't fit that angel but so well.
I stick by my point, however. Consider the litany of flying anthropomorphic creatures - Angels, Superman, Batman, Thor, Dracula - they tend to go in for that flutter in the breeze look. Because it's impressive, enthralling, exciting in a way that a pair of Levi just aren't.
(Yes, I know, there are exceptions, but they are pathetic. Peter Pan, who is a well known JD, or Tink, who is over time getting more an more creepy. Hermes, despite the lurid imaginings of certain torso obsessed Renaissance artists in his own time sported a cape. D listers such as Wonder Woman at the outset respected the tradition with that skirt, and even now substitutes her hair, but the principle of flutter holds - anyway, come on - Wonder Woman? No, the Headliners come with loose fabric. )
But what do I know? I still mourn the capitulation of Club 21 to the heathen tie-less.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:59 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
No doubt, though frankly those pants don't fit that angel but so well.
I stick by my point, however. Consider the litany of flying anthropomorphic creatures - Angels, Superman, Batman, Thor, Dracula - they tend to go in for that flutter in the breeze look. Because it's impressive, enthralling, exciting in a way that a pair of Levi just aren't.
(Yes, I know, there are exceptions, but they are pathetic. Peter Pan, who is a well known JD, or Tink, who is over time getting more an more creepy. Hermes, despite the lurid imaginings of certain torso obsessed Renaissance artists in his own time sported a cape. D listers such as Wonder Woman at the outset respected the tradition with that skirt, and even now substitutes her hair, but the principle of flutter holds - anyway, come on - Wonder Woman? No, the Headliners come with loose fabric. )
But what do I know? I still mourn the capitulation of Club 21 to the heathen tie-less.
posted by IndigoJones at 4:59 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
and it seems creating a very permanent tribute to a trend in technology...might be a bad idea
Do you think Robert Campin would feel regrets about not giving Joseph bow drill instead of a brace and bit?
Or how would you feel about depicting the baby Jesus in one of these? Because I've got news for you.
And I can't find the picture of Mary using a Spinning Wheel with a flyer, but in terms of historic accuracy, they might as well have had the Holy Family flee Egypt in a bi-plane.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:27 PM on April 10, 2011
Do you think Robert Campin would feel regrets about not giving Joseph bow drill instead of a brace and bit?
Or how would you feel about depicting the baby Jesus in one of these? Because I've got news for you.
And I can't find the picture of Mary using a Spinning Wheel with a flyer, but in terms of historic accuracy, they might as well have had the Holy Family flee Egypt in a bi-plane.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:27 PM on April 10, 2011
I stick by my point, however. Consider the litany of flying anthropomorphic creatures - Angels, Superman, Batman, Thor, Dracula - they tend to go in for that flutter in the breeze look. Because it's impressive, enthralling, exciting in a way that a pair of Levi just aren't.
Batman doesn't fly. And I like James Robinson's Starman, and his outfit is a battered leather jacket, goggles, and jeans.
The phone is weird because I assume angels are telepathic.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:43 PM on April 10, 2011
Batman doesn't fly. And I like James Robinson's Starman, and his outfit is a battered leather jacket, goggles, and jeans.
The phone is weird because I assume angels are telepathic.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:43 PM on April 10, 2011
Hello, God? It's me, Marga... Hello?
...
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Ah, screw it.
[CLICK]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:27 PM on April 10, 2011
...
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear me now?
Ah, screw it.
[CLICK]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:27 PM on April 10, 2011
You bunch of blind people don't want to understand and worse don't want to realize that, that angel is "Angel Hillary Clinton" communicating with "arch-angel Obama" and informing him that all her efforts to try to convince the rest of the world of the dangers of this moment are being in vane. The rest of the world seeing that the Japanese people which had been the only ones to have suffered in the past the nuclear attacks and now are battling with some success the troubles of nuclear exposure; are beginning to believe that nuclear bombing is not such a terrible thing, will eventually involve the whole world in a nuclear bombing attack. - Now all those extra terrestrial invaders that some of us have seen and they picture as short people with big heads like upside down pear and huge eyes, they are just surviving mutated "US".. that we come back to the past for some reasons (since in the future we are going to find out that traveling in time is easy and effective than traveling to far constellations) to understand our history, since we didn't do enough to understand that the coming of Jesus Two thousand years ago was a last effort to try to convince us without interacting to heavily in the future, that we really needed to help each other instead of hating. (Some call it "Love each other"). Using some preserved sperms they inseminated "Maria" and with the "Knowledge from the future" Jesus tried to teach us some "share instead of greed" and all those ignorant (apostolic) fisherman's were provided with an "Invisible chip" that we developed (Not now just yet, but in the future) and that chip gave then knowledge. Is the same chip that we all now carry (some call it "The Holly spirit") but is just a powerful invisible chip that is recording every damn word and movement (actions) that we performe in our entire life, and all of that is being sent and recorded in a big God Damn computer that has the records of every living creature. All those records are analyzed and the good acts are kept in memory and all those unwise stupid actions are deleted. When you die your file is analyzed and if it is OK then they keep it (You are in heaven) and if it is no good you're dumped and all your records deleted...(you are in Hell)!!... Beware!!
posted by CRESTA at 11:51 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by CRESTA at 11:51 PM on April 10, 2011
Hey PKD! I love your stuff. Normally this is where I'd give you the info of my shrink but honestly the world needs your paranoid brand of Christianity so I think i'll just leave it there. Have you seen the new Radio Free Albumuth film What do you think?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:39 AM on April 11, 2011
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:39 AM on April 11, 2011
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posted by ryanrs at 2:03 AM on April 10, 2011