The shooting was expert
June 15, 2011 9:40 PM Subscribe
"Davis didn’t have time to ponder their motives. The intersection of Jail and Ferozepur roads was packed with cars, bicycles, rickshaws, and pedestrians; the motorcycle pulled around his car and stopped just ahead of it. Shamshad, on the back of the bike, turned. He raised his pistol. He cocked it." [Black Ops and Blood Money] (previously and previouslier)
He raised his pistol. He cocked it.
There's no exposed hammer on a Glock, which is striker-fired and is "cocked" by operation of the slide. Now back to the article!
posted by Harald74 at 11:53 PM on June 15, 2011 [4 favorites]
There's no exposed hammer on a Glock, which is striker-fired and is "cocked" by operation of the slide. Now back to the article!
posted by Harald74 at 11:53 PM on June 15, 2011 [4 favorites]
Back during the dismal Bush II regime I thought it was somewhat truthy but ultimately hyperbolic to say that the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan were direct hand-overs of US taxpayer cash to military and defense contractors, mercenaries, and US businesses aligned with the military-industrial complex.
Boy, I sure was a fucking moron back then.
posted by bardic at 11:57 PM on June 15, 2011 [5 favorites]
Boy, I sure was a fucking moron back then.
posted by bardic at 11:57 PM on June 15, 2011 [5 favorites]
The question, of course, is how much the CIA can trust the ISI.About as much as the ISI can trust the CIA. Excactly how much that is is left as an excercise for the reader.
posted by Harald74 at 12:02 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
That was an interesting article though it did seem like there was tons left out, tons that would have maybe painted a different but more complete (in that direction) story.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:14 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by From Bklyn at 12:14 AM on June 16, 2011
Boy, I sure was a fucking moron back then.
I think a Miranda July title is apropos.
posted by orthogonality at 12:20 AM on June 16, 2011
I think a Miranda July title is apropos.
posted by orthogonality at 12:20 AM on June 16, 2011
There's no exposed hammer on a Glock, which is striker-fired and is "cocked" by operation of the slide.
I think the "he" there refers to Shamshad, not to Davis. The article doesn't mention the make of Shamshad's pistol.
posted by vidur at 12:39 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think the "he" there refers to Shamshad, not to Davis. The article doesn't mention the make of Shamshad's pistol.
posted by vidur at 12:39 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
In further news the clear out of the CIA by the ISI continues:
Pakistan arrests five men for helping CIA spy on Bin Laden house.
The lack of knowledge or public knowledge about ISI is shown by the recent seminar chaired by Wendy Chamberlain former US Ambassador to Pakistan at the Middle East Institute - Inside Pakistan’s ISI.
cspan and podcast.
posted by adamvasco at 1:06 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Pakistan arrests five men for helping CIA spy on Bin Laden house.
The lack of knowledge or public knowledge about ISI is shown by the recent seminar chaired by Wendy Chamberlain former US Ambassador to Pakistan at the Middle East Institute - Inside Pakistan’s ISI.
cspan and podcast.
posted by adamvasco at 1:06 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Back during the dismal Bush II regime I thought it was somewhat truthy but ultimately hyperbolic to say that the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan were direct hand-overs of US taxpayer cash to military and defense contractors, mercenaries, and US businesses aligned with the military-industrial complex.
I don't disagree, but I also don't really see what that has to do with this incident. Isn't the understanding that Davis was working directly for the CIA? I can't seem to pry a "profiteering" angle out of this.
About as much as the ISI can trust the CIA. Excactly how much that is is left as an excercise for the reader.
Say whatever else about the CIA: it's at least operationally united. The ISI ... not so much. It's one thing to not trust an intelligence agency; that's prudent, as a rule. It's another to also have to deal with myriad leaks and competing internal agendas. It's not exactly a coincidence that part of getting Bin Laden was leaving the ISI out of the loop.
posted by Amanojaku at 1:17 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't disagree, but I also don't really see what that has to do with this incident. Isn't the understanding that Davis was working directly for the CIA? I can't seem to pry a "profiteering" angle out of this.
About as much as the ISI can trust the CIA. Excactly how much that is is left as an excercise for the reader.
Say whatever else about the CIA: it's at least operationally united. The ISI ... not so much. It's one thing to not trust an intelligence agency; that's prudent, as a rule. It's another to also have to deal with myriad leaks and competing internal agendas. It's not exactly a coincidence that part of getting Bin Laden was leaving the ISI out of the loop.
posted by Amanojaku at 1:17 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Say whatever else about the CIA: it's at least operationally united. The ISI ... not so much. It's one thing to not trust an intelligence agency; that's prudent, as a rule. It's another to also have to deal with myriad leaks and competing internal agendas
posted by fullerine at 1:33 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by fullerine at 1:33 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
You just got lincoln-logged.
posted by stavrogin at 2:01 AM on June 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by stavrogin at 2:01 AM on June 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
In Pakistan the truth is like a woman; it stays veiled in public, only fully revealing itself behind closed doors.
Oh wow.
Backroom deals have forced the withdrawal of CIA operatives from the heartland of terrorism.
I thought that the heartland of terrorism wasIraq Afghanistan Iran Libya?
posted by dubold at 2:02 AM on June 16, 2011
Oh wow.
Backroom deals have forced the withdrawal of CIA operatives from the heartland of terrorism.
I thought that the heartland of terrorism was
posted by dubold at 2:02 AM on June 16, 2011
Say whatever else about the CIA; at least their stovepipe hats are Super Deluxe!
posted by dubold at 2:04 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by dubold at 2:04 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Lashkar first caught the West’s full attention in November 2008, when 10 LeT operatives arrived on India’s coastline in rubber speedboats. They injected themselves periodically with a mix of cocaine and LSD calibrated to keep them energized and awake for what lay ahead: a three-day, nonstop stream of gunfire and explosions that shook Mumbai.
Sure they did.
Injecting LSD? Well it is calibrated, so there's that...
posted by GeckoDundee at 5:42 AM on June 16, 2011
Sure they did.
Injecting LSD? Well it is calibrated, so there's that...
posted by GeckoDundee at 5:42 AM on June 16, 2011
GeckoDundee: that one stood out to me as well - sounds like the kind of line you'd hear from the DARE officer, or in Over the Edge. I poked around a bit and it seems that other sources said the same thing.
posted by dubold at 5:58 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by dubold at 5:58 AM on June 16, 2011
There's no exposed hammer on a Glock, which is striker-fired and is "cocked" by operation of the slide.
Davis had a glock. The article didn't list what kind of pistol the assassins on the bike had.
posted by dazed_one at 6:06 AM on June 16, 2011
Davis had a glock. The article didn't list what kind of pistol the assassins on the bike had.
posted by dazed_one at 6:06 AM on June 16, 2011
"I thought that the heartland of terrorism was Iraq Afghanistan Iran Libya?"
You're behind the times, my friend!
You're behind the times, my friend!
The United States is building a secret CIA air base in the Persian Gulf region to target terrorists in Yemen, preparing for the possibility that an anti-American faction may take over Yemen and ban U.S. forces from hunting a lethal al-Qaida faction there, The Associated Press has learned. ...posted by Trurl at 6:10 AM on June 16, 2011
The new CIA base provides a backstop, if al-Qaida or other anti-American rebel forces gain control, one senior U.S. official explained. The White House has already increased the numbers of CIA officers in Yemen, in anticipation of that possibility. And it has stepped up the schedule to construct the base, from a two-year timetable to a rushed eight months.
The Associated Press has withheld the exact location at the request of U.S. officials. They spoke on condition of anonymity because portions of the military and CIA missions in Yemen are classified.
Yeah, dubold, I found the Telegraph story when I googled around to see where the author might have got that from, but it's obvious bullshit which, rather than calling out, the writer embellishes.
Bad journalism.
The earlier bit about it being SOP to kill everyone and get the hell out of Dodge when attacked sounded a bit implausible too. Is that "protocol" in Sydney? London? Tokyo?
Boys' Own Adventure for the C21st.
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:10 AM on June 16, 2011
Bad journalism.
The earlier bit about it being SOP to kill everyone and get the hell out of Dodge when attacked sounded a bit implausible too. Is that "protocol" in Sydney? London? Tokyo?
Boys' Own Adventure for the C21st.
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:10 AM on June 16, 2011
The earlier bit about it being SOP to kill everyone and get the hell out of Dodge when attacked sounded a bit implausible too. Is that "protocol" in Sydney? London? Tokyo?
If those cities ever become predominantly Muslim, it will be.
posted by Trurl at 6:12 AM on June 16, 2011
If those cities ever become predominantly Muslim, it will be.
posted by Trurl at 6:12 AM on June 16, 2011
Ok. Riyadh? Jakarta? Istanbul?
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:15 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:15 AM on June 16, 2011
The real burning question about Davis: does he take his vodka martinis shaken or stirred?
posted by briank at 6:15 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by briank at 6:15 AM on June 16, 2011
Doesn't Felix drink bourbon?
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:18 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by GeckoDundee at 6:18 AM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
The earlier bit about it being SOP to kill everyone and get the hell out of Dodge when attacked sounded a bit implausible too. Is that "protocol" in Sydney? London? Tokyo?
Before we get too carried away, the article didn't say kill "everyone" and then leave, it said that the operatives were trained to kill all the attackers and then to evacuate the area. Big difference, and I'd say pretty common sense as well.
posted by dazed_one at 7:27 AM on June 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Before we get too carried away, the article didn't say kill "everyone" and then leave, it said that the operatives were trained to kill all the attackers and then to evacuate the area. Big difference, and I'd say pretty common sense as well.
posted by dazed_one at 7:27 AM on June 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
What are you talking about? Relations between the US and Pakistan have never been stronger.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2011
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:43 AM on June 16, 2011
Amanojaku: This might bring enlightenment.
Ah, so. Thanks. Sadly, the only thing I could think of was the Urban Dictionary definition and that was ... less than helpful.
That said, stovepiping, the ethics of foreign policy, collection errors, and so on, are beside the point -- the initial operations to collect that intelligence are carried out in a unified manner. If another source abuses that intelligence -- the Office of Special Plans selectively presenting it to justify the Bush administration's pre-determined plans for Iraq, for example -- it has no reflection on the collection process.
The ISI, on the other hand, has internal factions in a way the CIA doesn't -- some seem genuinely interested in working with the West; others are running terrorists while simultaneously denying the same -- the Mumbai gunmen, for example -- yet they both have access to all the information we share with the ISI as a whole. So no, even beyond whatever degree one thinks an intelligence agency be should (or should not) be trusted, the ISI should be trusted even less. They're simply not organized/unified/secure enough to treat like a single agency, however duplicitous their role necessarily makes them.
Let me put it this way: one cannot be critical of the CIA as a whole -- as so many here often are -- without tacitly acknowledging that the CIA operates as a whole. It's not just "some guys in the CIA, who are probably also opposed by other guys in the CIA, who have the exact opposite goals."
posted by Amanojaku at 12:14 PM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ah, so. Thanks. Sadly, the only thing I could think of was the Urban Dictionary definition and that was ... less than helpful.
That said, stovepiping, the ethics of foreign policy, collection errors, and so on, are beside the point -- the initial operations to collect that intelligence are carried out in a unified manner. If another source abuses that intelligence -- the Office of Special Plans selectively presenting it to justify the Bush administration's pre-determined plans for Iraq, for example -- it has no reflection on the collection process.
The ISI, on the other hand, has internal factions in a way the CIA doesn't -- some seem genuinely interested in working with the West; others are running terrorists while simultaneously denying the same -- the Mumbai gunmen, for example -- yet they both have access to all the information we share with the ISI as a whole. So no, even beyond whatever degree one thinks an intelligence agency be should (or should not) be trusted, the ISI should be trusted even less. They're simply not organized/unified/secure enough to treat like a single agency, however duplicitous their role necessarily makes them.
Let me put it this way: one cannot be critical of the CIA as a whole -- as so many here often are -- without tacitly acknowledging that the CIA operates as a whole. It's not just "some guys in the CIA, who are probably also opposed by other guys in the CIA, who have the exact opposite goals."
posted by Amanojaku at 12:14 PM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
In Pakistan The ISI = Army and the Army is the economic backbone of Pakistan. Therefore what ISA does is in Pakistan's interests.
I recommend reading Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within
CIA worked with ISI as the pipeline for arms and money to the Mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, and to extract heroin / opium so there is a complicated relationship.
During Musharaff's reign the ISI which previously was a backwater for Army officers to retire to, suddenly became a stepping stone in the careers of promising and ambitious individuals.
posted by adamvasco at 12:57 PM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I recommend reading Crossed Swords: Pakistan, Its Army, and the Wars Within
CIA worked with ISI as the pipeline for arms and money to the Mujahideen to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, and to extract heroin / opium so there is a complicated relationship.
During Musharaff's reign the ISI which previously was a backwater for Army officers to retire to, suddenly became a stepping stone in the careers of promising and ambitious individuals.
posted by adamvasco at 12:57 PM on June 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
dubold, the only people claiming Libya is a terrorist heartland is Gaddafi.
posted by mulligan at 3:20 PM on June 17, 2011
posted by mulligan at 3:20 PM on June 17, 2011
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posted by andoatnp at 10:09 PM on June 15, 2011