There are eight million stories in the Naked City.
September 21, 2011 4:35 PM Subscribe
The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society (NSFW) is exactly what it says on the tin. They'll have more reading material now that modern day pulp imprint Hard Case Crime has has returned.
I... enjoy their efforts.
...then suddenly I lost interest.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
...then suddenly I lost interest.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
How long does it take to read one Lawrence Block book? Sheesh.
Seriously, is the fact that they took a month a sign that this is basically guerrilla publicity?
posted by Amanojaku at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Seriously, is the fact that they took a month a sign that this is basically guerrilla publicity?
posted by Amanojaku at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You'd think they'd have made an effort to get at least a couple men in there.
But then they'd have to take off their trenchcoats.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:51 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
But then they'd have to take off their trenchcoats.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:51 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
How were we supposed to know that our little book club would strike such a chord for so many people?
Ladies, you may be shocked to learn that boobies are extremely popular.
posted by louche mustachio at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2011 [17 favorites]
Ladies, you may be shocked to learn that boobies are extremely popular.
posted by louche mustachio at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2011 [17 favorites]
You'd think they'd have made an effort to get at least a couple men in there.
They're the ones taking the pictures.
They're totally topless too.
posted by device55 at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
They're the ones taking the pictures.
They're totally topless too.
posted by device55 at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You'd think they'd have made an effort to get at least a couple men in there.
I imagine the problem is more keeping them out.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:56 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I imagine the problem is more keeping them out.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:56 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I wonder if their devotion to trashy novels is strong enough to see them through the winter.
posted by elizardbits at 4:57 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 4:57 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
There must be a sub-reddit for this sort of thing.
posted by vidur at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by vidur at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed. It would be really okay to remember we're not at Fark and adjust comments accordingly.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:00 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
YOU KIDS GET
off
huh
HAHA ALL GOOD NEVER MIND
posted by everichon at 5:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [22 favorites]
off
huh
HAHA ALL GOOD NEVER MIND
posted by everichon at 5:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [22 favorites]
Sexy naked reading action at r/gonewilde
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [14 favorites]
I imagine the problem is more keeping them out.
Going by the pictures and the repeated open invitations, it seems not.
posted by fatbird at 5:05 PM on September 21, 2011
Going by the pictures and the repeated open invitations, it seems not.
posted by fatbird at 5:05 PM on September 21, 2011
I thought this was about crime novels featuring bobbies! Oh dear, oh dear....
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:07 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:07 PM on September 21, 2011
It's not actually a co-ed society if it's all women and I'd love nothing more than to read some good pulp fiction in the park... But I'd feel weird reading it with the OCTPFAS given everyone would think the only dude is there to oggle the other readers. Also Reamde is freakin' heavy.
They get about a billion brownie points from me for reading actual books rather than Kindles.
posted by Justinian at 5:15 PM on September 21, 2011
They get about a billion brownie points from me for reading actual books rather than Kindles.
posted by Justinian at 5:15 PM on September 21, 2011
I'm a little confused about their motivation, but sure, why not. For me, I've been thinking about writing a novel for some time with no real idea of which genre to work in, and I guess maybe this is a sign?
You'd think they'd have made an effort to get at least a couple men in there.
At least I'd be able to understand why it took a guy in those circumstances a month to read a 200-page novel; I'd be surprised if he kept focused long enough to get through the first chapter.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:21 PM on September 21, 2011
You'd think they'd have made an effort to get at least a couple men in there.
At least I'd be able to understand why it took a guy in those circumstances a month to read a 200-page novel; I'd be surprised if he kept focused long enough to get through the first chapter.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:21 PM on September 21, 2011
They get about a billion brownie points from me for reading actual books rather than Kindles.
Dang, really? The revolution has happened more quickly than I thought.
posted by scose at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Dang, really? The revolution has happened more quickly than I thought.
posted by scose at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Sexy naked reading action at r/gonewilde
Either that wallpaper comes or I do.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:28 PM on September 21, 2011 [13 favorites]
Either that wallpaper comes or I do.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:28 PM on September 21, 2011 [13 favorites]
They get about a billion brownie points from me for reading actual books rather than Kindles.
Interesting. How does one redeem those points for actual brownies, and what is the conversion rate?
posted by louche mustachio at 5:29 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Interesting. How does one redeem those points for actual brownies, and what is the conversion rate?
posted by louche mustachio at 5:29 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also Reamde is freakin' heavy.
They get about a billion brownie points from me for reading actual books rather than Kindles.
You may want to sit down for this...
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:31 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
They get about a billion brownie points from me for reading actual books rather than Kindles.
You may want to sit down for this...
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:31 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are you allowed to say 'nice tits' on metafilter if there's a site which is designed to show tits?
Or did they have something that said it was feminism in some way? I forgot to look.
posted by Not Supplied at 5:31 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Or did they have something that said it was feminism in some way? I forgot to look.
posted by Not Supplied at 5:31 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Does this club exist for any reason other than to take their photos semi-naked, outdoors, holding books? I mean, do they hold activities centered around appreciating fiction even if there are no cameras around?
Also, was anyone else surprised/disappointed that it was this king of pulp fiction and not the other Pulp Fiction?
posted by arcticwoman at 5:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Also, was anyone else surprised/disappointed that it was this king of pulp fiction and not the other Pulp Fiction?
posted by arcticwoman at 5:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Yes I will click on that link.
posted by bicyclefish at 5:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by bicyclefish at 5:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
What a bunch of boobs.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:33 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:33 PM on September 21, 2011
The founder of Hard Case Crime was on Morning Edition this morning talking about a lost James M. Cain book being published.
As to the topless book club thing, whatever ends up making it not such a huge deal. Jesus, just look at the comments here, even.
posted by Red Loop at 5:37 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
As to the topless book club thing, whatever ends up making it not such a huge deal. Jesus, just look at the comments here, even.
posted by Red Loop at 5:37 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I thought it was music soothed the au sauvage breast?
posted by Abiezer at 5:49 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Abiezer at 5:49 PM on September 21, 2011
It looks like at least one of them moves her lips when she reads.
posted by sourwookie at 5:49 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by sourwookie at 5:49 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You know guys, a wise man once said that when you get in the end zone it's good to act like you've been there before.
posted by Justinian at 6:08 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 6:08 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Is this for real? It's like an American Apparel ad.
I am starting a men's pantless poetry society. Who's in!?
posted by helmutdog at 6:10 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am starting a men's pantless poetry society. Who's in!?
posted by helmutdog at 6:10 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
You know guys, a wise man once said that when you get in the end zone it's good to act like you've been there before.
That "wise man" was a can of Old Spice Body Spray.
posted by sourwookie at 6:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]
That "wise man" was a can of Old Spice Body Spray.
posted by sourwookie at 6:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]
I am starting a men's pantless poetry society. Who's in!?
Can we read our own poetry aloud?
'Cause that will make up for my lack of pants.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:13 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Can we read our own poetry aloud?
'Cause that will make up for my lack of pants.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:13 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Pantless poetry sounds terrific, reading your own work seems like it might be a bit awkward, though.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:15 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:15 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I sooo read that comment wrong, LiB
posted by 1000monkeys at 6:16 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by 1000monkeys at 6:16 PM on September 21, 2011
The Penis is evil! The Penis shoots Seeds, and makes new Life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Mouth shoots Poetry and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals. Go forth, and slam! Brimstone has spoken.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:21 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:21 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Definitely not Fark.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 6:29 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Crabby Appleton at 6:29 PM on September 21, 2011
I don't really like looking if I'm not allowed to touch.
posted by solmyjuice at 6:57 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by solmyjuice at 6:57 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I too was expecting more Tarantito.
ಠ_ೃ
I say, good chap, I see what you did there.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:12 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
ಠ_ೃ
I say, good chap, I see what you did there.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:12 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Is this for real? It's like an American Apparel ad.
It's for real. A real Hard Case Crime ad. Check out how many women are on that page listing their books! Another naked one on a book cover and Christa Faust and... um... well, I'm not familiar with all those names but they sure do seem marked masculine.
posted by Zed at 7:23 PM on September 21, 2011
It's for real. A real Hard Case Crime ad. Check out how many women are on that page listing their books! Another naked one on a book cover and Christa Faust and... um... well, I'm not familiar with all those names but they sure do seem marked masculine.
posted by Zed at 7:23 PM on September 21, 2011
I totally get what these folks are trying to do: they're trying to normalize female toplessness (in this case in New York), which is a great thing. And I'm not going to lie: I found the women pictured here to be very attractive, so thanks for posting.
However, I found this a little weird:
Oh, and many thanks also to all the cool sites that have been writing about our adventures! Fleshbot, t
I think Fleshbot is a fine site, and everything, but it's also a porn site, and I thought what these folks are trying to do is somehow desexualize breasts (at least in the context of reading books in the middle of Central Park).
Is there something about the Fleshbot connection here that I am missing?
posted by KokuRyu at 7:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
However, I found this a little weird:
Oh, and many thanks also to all the cool sites that have been writing about our adventures! Fleshbot, t
I think Fleshbot is a fine site, and everything, but it's also a porn site, and I thought what these folks are trying to do is somehow desexualize breasts (at least in the context of reading books in the middle of Central Park).
Is there something about the Fleshbot connection here that I am missing?
posted by KokuRyu at 7:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
How else are you going to desexualize breasts but put pictures of topless women reading books on a porn site?
posted by wierdo at 7:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 7:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am starting a men's pantless poetry society. Who's in!?
Two questions:
1) What type of poetry? Because if we are reading, say, certain of Ferlinghetti's works then things could get awkward. On the other hand, his more political stuff, or something like say Xanadu then I'd be more interested.
2) Not until spring at the earliest.
On another note: I really like the *idea* of being able to walk around topless (cloths are evil and scratchy), but
a) No one wants to see the skinny nerd topless. Doubly so if I stop being quite so skinny in a couple years.
b) Ontario, where I currently live, is too cold 3 seasons of the year and filled with mosquitoes the other season. I suspect there is a reason that most nudest groups I hear of are from places like California or Australia.
About those books: Is the author any good? I've wanted to get into old detective books for a while, but read The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler and was really disappointed.
posted by Canageek at 8:08 PM on September 21, 2011
Two questions:
1) What type of poetry? Because if we are reading, say, certain of Ferlinghetti's works then things could get awkward. On the other hand, his more political stuff, or something like say Xanadu then I'd be more interested.
2) Not until spring at the earliest.
On another note: I really like the *idea* of being able to walk around topless (cloths are evil and scratchy), but
a) No one wants to see the skinny nerd topless. Doubly so if I stop being quite so skinny in a couple years.
b) Ontario, where I currently live, is too cold 3 seasons of the year and filled with mosquitoes the other season. I suspect there is a reason that most nudest groups I hear of are from places like California or Australia.
About those books: Is the author any good? I've wanted to get into old detective books for a while, but read The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler and was really disappointed.
posted by Canageek at 8:08 PM on September 21, 2011
I was strangely disappointed that it's pretty much just the same couple books over and over.
posted by klangklangston at 8:30 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 8:30 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
A little bit of context: There are fairly regular protest activities in New York like this to publicize the fact that, thanks to a 1992 state Supreme Court ruling, it's actually legal for women to be topless in public anywhere men are. Indecent exposure laws here only apply to genitals, and New York's one of only a few states where that's true. The movement goes by names like "topfreedom," and there's an occasional gathering or Go Topless Day sort of thing.
(What I didn't know until I just looked that up is that GoTopless.org is connected to Raëlism.)
So I guess this group just decided to exercise their rights and also get some summer reading done in the process. More power to them, I guess.
posted by albrecht at 8:34 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
(What I didn't know until I just looked that up is that GoTopless.org is connected to Raëlism.)
So I guess this group just decided to exercise their rights and also get some summer reading done in the process. More power to them, I guess.
posted by albrecht at 8:34 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I actually don't see why this is a point of protest. Indecency laws exist for a reason. This sort of thing is fine on the Internet and as a way to drum up support for a good book series, but I don't really think public toplessness should be encouraged IRL.
Unfortunately, many Sydneysiders disagree with me.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:51 PM on September 21, 2011
Unfortunately, many Sydneysiders disagree with me.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:51 PM on September 21, 2011
I just don't see it as something that needs to be a moral or a political point. I don't understand it, honestly.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:59 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:59 PM on September 21, 2011
Needs more cowboob.
posted by anothermug at 9:00 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by anothermug at 9:00 PM on September 21, 2011
I think Zed is correct that this is a viral marketing stunt for a book publisher, piggybacking on the topless- rights folk and making careful use of social media. I think that means one is supposed to ogle in an ironic, male-gaze-but-sill-postmodern way, as opposed to a you-go-girl! n-th wave feminist way.
I actually don't see why this is a point of protest. Indecency laws exist for a reason.
Yup. Controlling folks' sexuality and bodies is a great way to control their minds. It's been a staple of Abrahamic (and other) patriarchal societies for millennia.
This sort of thing is fine on the Internet and as a way to drum up support for a good book series, but I don't really think public toplessness should be encouraged IRL.
Why? How does it hurt folk?
I just don't see it as something that needs to be a moral or a political point. I don't understand it, honestly.
It ties in to a woman's right to nurse her child in public. And it ties into slut-shaming, etc.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I actually don't see why this is a point of protest. Indecency laws exist for a reason.
Yup. Controlling folks' sexuality and bodies is a great way to control their minds. It's been a staple of Abrahamic (and other) patriarchal societies for millennia.
This sort of thing is fine on the Internet and as a way to drum up support for a good book series, but I don't really think public toplessness should be encouraged IRL.
Why? How does it hurt folk?
I just don't see it as something that needs to be a moral or a political point. I don't understand it, honestly.
It ties in to a woman's right to nurse her child in public. And it ties into slut-shaming, etc.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I actually don't see why this is a point of protest. Indecency laws exist for a reason.
I guess I don't understand your point. This isn't illegal. Are you saying you think it should be?
I don't really know the whole story, but I think an issue that sparked the whole topfreedom thing was public breastfeeding, where it's clear that the incidental nudity it entails doesn't have any prurient dimension to it. So that started people thinking about the general disparity between male and female toplessness.
At some point it becomes circular logic--public nudity is only indecent if you see it that way. And according to the courts, at least, a naked body by itself doesn't constitute obscenity.
posted by albrecht at 9:03 PM on September 21, 2011
I guess I don't understand your point. This isn't illegal. Are you saying you think it should be?
I don't really know the whole story, but I think an issue that sparked the whole topfreedom thing was public breastfeeding, where it's clear that the incidental nudity it entails doesn't have any prurient dimension to it. So that started people thinking about the general disparity between male and female toplessness.
At some point it becomes circular logic--public nudity is only indecent if you see it that way. And according to the courts, at least, a naked body by itself doesn't constitute obscenity.
posted by albrecht at 9:03 PM on September 21, 2011
(What I didn't know until I just looked that up is that GoTopless.org is connected to Raëlism.)
Wah.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:05 PM on September 21, 2011
Wah.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:05 PM on September 21, 2011
It just seems like nudity should be between a person, their partner, and the Internet.
But seriously seeing this sort of thing when I'm out at, say, a secret Amanda Palmer show or the park just makes me uncomfortable. I get the breastfeeding thing, since that's a matter of convenience and necessity. But not other stuff.
And yes, I do feel the same way about men's bodies.
Is this for real? It's like an American Apparel ad.
Ironically for the publisher, this looks so much less sleazy.
And it ties into slut-shaming, etc.
Dame shaming.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:06 PM on September 21, 2011
But seriously seeing this sort of thing when I'm out at, say, a secret Amanda Palmer show or the park just makes me uncomfortable. I get the breastfeeding thing, since that's a matter of convenience and necessity. But not other stuff.
And yes, I do feel the same way about men's bodies.
Is this for real? It's like an American Apparel ad.
Ironically for the publisher, this looks so much less sleazy.
And it ties into slut-shaming, etc.
Dame shaming.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:06 PM on September 21, 2011
From the latest entry:
And though the breezes were a bit sharp at times
YEAH I COULD TOTALLY TELL
but I won't say how
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:08 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
And though the breezes were a bit sharp at times
YEAH I COULD TOTALLY TELL
but I won't say how
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:08 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Indecency laws exist for a reason. This sort of thing is fine on the Internet and as a way to drum up support for a good book series, but I don't really think public toplessness should be encouraged IRL."
What a weird, repressed view to espouse.
It's entirely arbitrary and based purely on priggishness.
posted by klangklangston at 9:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
What a weird, repressed view to espouse.
It's entirely arbitrary and based purely on priggishness.
posted by klangklangston at 9:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Repression and priggishness are bad things now? I may enjoy a bit of pulp, a bit of violent entertainment and a lot of the Devil's Music but I don't think that society should be organized along those lines. That way lies madness, and jam band zombies.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:16 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:16 PM on September 21, 2011
But seriously seeing this sort of thing when I'm out at, say, a secret Amanda Palmer show or the park just makes me uncomfortable.
How do you distinguish between your discomfort and, say, the discomfort some men feel when a woman isn't wearing something which covers her head? In terms of law, I mean. You're free to feel discomfort over anything you wish. Hell, I feel discomfort when people wear flip-flops at places not within 500 feet of a beach.
posted by Justinian at 9:21 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
How do you distinguish between your discomfort and, say, the discomfort some men feel when a woman isn't wearing something which covers her head? In terms of law, I mean. You're free to feel discomfort over anything you wish. Hell, I feel discomfort when people wear flip-flops at places not within 500 feet of a beach.
posted by Justinian at 9:21 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
Interesting that the readers are almost exclusively on the front page of the book. Also a strange coincidence that one of the books featured was on boing boing yesterday. And yet another strange happenstance that all the woman that enjoy topless reading are young and attractive. Hmmm.
posted by Keith Talent at 9:22 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 9:22 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]
I was strangely disappointed that it's pretty much just the same couple books over and over.
Well, not everyone is up to a challenge like Inifinite Jest.
posted by homunculus at 9:23 PM on September 21, 2011
Well, not everyone is up to a challenge like Inifinite Jest.
posted by homunculus at 9:23 PM on September 21, 2011
Hell, I feel discomfort when people wear flip-flops at places not within 500 feet of a beach.
Try working with somebody who will wear them to the office. *shudder*
I wish something could be done to prevent that, too.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:24 PM on September 21, 2011
Try working with somebody who will wear them to the office. *shudder*
I wish something could be done to prevent that, too.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:24 PM on September 21, 2011
So "co-ed" means women? Is this something I'd have to be a straight college boy to understand?
posted by treepour at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by treepour at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
It just seems like nudity should be between a person, their partner, and the Internet.
But seriously seeing this sort of thing when I'm out at, say, a secret Amanda Palmer show or the park just makes me uncomfortable. I get the breastfeeding thing, since that's a matter of convenience and necessity. But not other stuff.
I'm not sure if I understand your point (so be patient with me if I get it wrong), but you are basically made uncomfortable seeing naked bodies in public. It could be topless (but not not pantless) men, it could be topless (but not pantless) women. Breastfeeding is okay.
I guess context is everything. It would be weird to see a guy with no shirt on at the mall or the bank, I suppose, but why not at the park?
The thing about breastfeeding is, at least in Vancouver, women are still (wrongly) kicked out of stores (the Gap, etc) for breastfeeding. We've got to get a little more relaxed about naked bodies (but, then again, I've been bathing naked with masses of other people in Japan for more than 15 years).
posted by KokuRyu at 9:28 PM on September 21, 2011
But seriously seeing this sort of thing when I'm out at, say, a secret Amanda Palmer show or the park just makes me uncomfortable. I get the breastfeeding thing, since that's a matter of convenience and necessity. But not other stuff.
I'm not sure if I understand your point (so be patient with me if I get it wrong), but you are basically made uncomfortable seeing naked bodies in public. It could be topless (but not not pantless) men, it could be topless (but not pantless) women. Breastfeeding is okay.
I guess context is everything. It would be weird to see a guy with no shirt on at the mall or the bank, I suppose, but why not at the park?
The thing about breastfeeding is, at least in Vancouver, women are still (wrongly) kicked out of stores (the Gap, etc) for breastfeeding. We've got to get a little more relaxed about naked bodies (but, then again, I've been bathing naked with masses of other people in Japan for more than 15 years).
posted by KokuRyu at 9:28 PM on September 21, 2011
Lovecraft In Brooklyn: "Repression and priggishness are bad things now?"
Of course not. Feel encouraged to be as repressed and priggish as you want with your own body. That's your decision, and we wouldn't presume to impose our own arbitrary standard of morality on you.
posted by Riki tiki at 9:28 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
Of course not. Feel encouraged to be as repressed and priggish as you want with your own body. That's your decision, and we wouldn't presume to impose our own arbitrary standard of morality on you.
posted by Riki tiki at 9:28 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
And yet another strange happenstance that all the woman that enjoy topless reading are young and attractive. Hmmm.
Yeah, the whole thing is pretty much a marketing stunt. Like most any other straight guy, I like to look at attractive topless women, but for these women to promote a product while claiming to be standing up for women's rights is a little sleazy.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:30 PM on September 21, 2011
Yeah, the whole thing is pretty much a marketing stunt. Like most any other straight guy, I like to look at attractive topless women, but for these women to promote a product while claiming to be standing up for women's rights is a little sleazy.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:30 PM on September 21, 2011
but for these women to promote a product while claiming to be standing up for women's rights is a little sleazy.
Is there some evidence that this is the case beyond "they appear to be reading heavily promoted books"? The causation could be going the other way.
posted by Justinian at 9:34 PM on September 21, 2011
Is there some evidence that this is the case beyond "they appear to be reading heavily promoted books"? The causation could be going the other way.
posted by Justinian at 9:34 PM on September 21, 2011
LiB, are you... trolling your own post? Did you post this so you could have a place to talk about how you think it's weird?
Also, boobs are nice. I guess a nice part of this whole topless rights thing is getting normal non-augmented female breasts out into the uh, open.
posted by MadamM at 9:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also, boobs are nice. I guess a nice part of this whole topless rights thing is getting normal non-augmented female breasts out into the uh, open.
posted by MadamM at 9:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
But seriously seeing this sort of thing when I'm out at, say, a secret Amanda Palmer show or the park just makes me uncomfortable. I get the breastfeeding thing, since that's a matter of convenience and necessity. But not other stuff.
What a bizarre and medieval viewpoint. Are naked male chests a cause for discomfort too? Should your personal concept of comfort dictate what other people can do with their own bodies?
posted by dazed_one at 9:43 PM on September 21, 2011
What a bizarre and medieval viewpoint. Are naked male chests a cause for discomfort too? Should your personal concept of comfort dictate what other people can do with their own bodies?
posted by dazed_one at 9:43 PM on September 21, 2011
dazed_one, LiB already protected his flank from your line of attack.
And yes, I do feel the same way about men's bodies.
I'm sure everyone will be happy to remain shirted at all times in order to make you as comfortable as possible, LiB. Are sleeveless tops okay? Or would that be too awkward for you?
posted by overglow at 9:56 PM on September 21, 2011
And yes, I do feel the same way about men's bodies.
I'm sure everyone will be happy to remain shirted at all times in order to make you as comfortable as possible, LiB. Are sleeveless tops okay? Or would that be too awkward for you?
posted by overglow at 9:56 PM on September 21, 2011
There are fairly regular protest activities in New York like this to publicize the fact that, thanks to a 1992 state Supreme Court ruling, it's actually legal for women to be topless in public anywhere men are.
So...they're protesting for the right to do something that's already legal?
posted by sourwookie at 10:00 PM on September 21, 2011
So...they're protesting for the right to do something that's already legal?
posted by sourwookie at 10:00 PM on September 21, 2011
Oh dear I think I saw an ankle!
And a woman without gloves? She must be a prostitute!
posted by klangklangston at 10:14 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
And a woman without gloves? She must be a prostitute!
posted by klangklangston at 10:14 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm totally cool with women being able to feel comfortable going topless in public, and someone needs to be the pioneers. And, I'm (mostly) cool with desexualizing breasts (sorry...I just like breasts are sexy and I don't want to think of them in an entirely asexual manner, but mayb that's just me). But I find this whole project kind of boring and ironically sensationalist.
posted by asnider at 10:19 PM on September 21, 2011
posted by asnider at 10:19 PM on September 21, 2011
like = think. Ugh. I need to proofread more.
Perhaps I am just jealous because for me bralessness=pain and strange posture. Whatevs.
Honestly, there were a few women in those pictures who looked like they couldn't possibly have been comfortable if they did much more than lie in the park reading books (as they were). The few large breasted women I know who choose to tell me such things basically say that: big boobs plus no bra = discomfort and more underboob sweat than usual. So...um...yeah?
posted by asnider at 10:21 PM on September 21, 2011
Perhaps I am just jealous because for me bralessness=pain and strange posture. Whatevs.
Honestly, there were a few women in those pictures who looked like they couldn't possibly have been comfortable if they did much more than lie in the park reading books (as they were). The few large breasted women I know who choose to tell me such things basically say that: big boobs plus no bra = discomfort and more underboob sweat than usual. So...um...yeah?
posted by asnider at 10:21 PM on September 21, 2011
I... uh... forgot what I was going to say.
I need to go desensitize myself to some more breasts. A lot of breasts. And at least a redhead or two.
Call me?
posted by Eideteker at 10:41 PM on September 21, 2011
I need to go desensitize myself to some more breasts. A lot of breasts. And at least a redhead or two.
Call me?
posted by Eideteker at 10:41 PM on September 21, 2011
It's great that so many of you have cast off ye demons of prudishness, but I think you're giving LiB a bit of a hard time. As far as I can tell he hasn't advocated preventing anyone from being topless or otherwise "imposed" his standards on anyone; he's just said it makes him uncomfortable and he doesn't understand the point of this particular activity.
I'm seeing a lot more shaming of LiB's discomfort by other Mefites than shaming of the pulp-reading women by him.
posted by DLWM at 10:58 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm seeing a lot more shaming of LiB's discomfort by other Mefites than shaming of the pulp-reading women by him.
posted by DLWM at 10:58 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Indecency laws exist for a reason.
Sure. The best reason is that under some circumstances nudity can be threatening. It does not take a prude to be alarmed by naked pelvic thrusting on a city bus. It's justifiable to prohibit "aggressive genital exposure with intent to shock those who want not to see the genitals" as an indecent act.
Just being naked is not an indecent act. Even streaking is not indecent, not under Canadian law.
Mind you, nudity has always left me cold.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:00 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sure. The best reason is that under some circumstances nudity can be threatening. It does not take a prude to be alarmed by naked pelvic thrusting on a city bus. It's justifiable to prohibit "aggressive genital exposure with intent to shock those who want not to see the genitals" as an indecent act.
Just being naked is not an indecent act. Even streaking is not indecent, not under Canadian law.
Mind you, nudity has always left me cold.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:00 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's all good fun until someone gets a paper cut.
posted by zippy at 11:15 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by zippy at 11:15 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, many Sydneysiders disagree with meDamn your eyes, when I go outside without a shirt on, I always make sure I've got an Australian flag around my shoulders and my second-best pair of boardies to cover the lowest star on my Southern Cross tattoo. Business-casual for Cronulla Aussie Pride Friday.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 12:07 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
heh my boyfriend is going to loooove this.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:56 AM on September 22, 2011
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:56 AM on September 22, 2011
thanks to a 1992 state Supreme Court ruling, it's actually legal for women to be topless in public anywhere men are.
I don't see how sex-confused America is going to allow Alice B. Topless to stroll down the sidewalks of Main Street but continue to protect its precious underage boys from seeing things that would give them precocious boners. How do you justify keeping bare breasts off television but on all beaches, sidewalks, streets, and parks at all times of the day? And what if the topless female in question is 14 years old? She can't send a topless picture of herself to her boyfriend but she can walk down the street without a shirt? Or do you start requiring all males and females under 18 to wear a shirt in public?
posted by pracowity at 4:21 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't see how sex-confused America is going to allow Alice B. Topless to stroll down the sidewalks of Main Street but continue to protect its precious underage boys from seeing things that would give them precocious boners. How do you justify keeping bare breasts off television but on all beaches, sidewalks, streets, and parks at all times of the day? And what if the topless female in question is 14 years old? She can't send a topless picture of herself to her boyfriend but she can walk down the street without a shirt? Or do you start requiring all males and females under 18 to wear a shirt in public?
posted by pracowity at 4:21 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
I just wanted to say that LiB is being a perfect model of how-to-disagree-civilly-and-friendlylike-with-the-horde. Happily enough, most of the horde is responding in a like manner, but I credit this to LiB's continued tone. Conversations are better when we aren't speaking in an echo chamber, but those of us in the majority have to work extra hard to make sure we aren't ganging up unfairly on those of us in the minority.
posted by arcticwoman at 6:17 AM on September 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by arcticwoman at 6:17 AM on September 22, 2011 [5 favorites]
From one of the members' blogs, linked to on the site:
We were like a scene from the movies. Six young, thin, pretty girls sunbathing in Central Park
Ah. So that's what this is all about, at least for this member. Look at how young, thin, and beautiful I am!
posted by pecanpies at 6:18 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
We were like a scene from the movies. Six young, thin, pretty girls sunbathing in Central Park
Ah. So that's what this is all about, at least for this member. Look at how young, thin, and beautiful I am!
posted by pecanpies at 6:18 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
So this is Pepsi Boob for some shit Lawrence Block book masquerading as right-kind-of-body-positivist feminism with a side of GYOB?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:49 AM on September 22, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:49 AM on September 22, 2011 [6 favorites]
Is the author any good? I've wanted to get into old detective books for a while, but read The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler and was really disappointed.
posted by Canageek at 10:08 PM on September 21
Any definition of "good" that doesn't include Raymond Chandler is useless.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:56 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Canageek at 10:08 PM on September 21
Any definition of "good" that doesn't include Raymond Chandler is useless.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:56 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think they were really reading those books.
posted by ciderwoman at 10:03 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ciderwoman at 10:03 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is one of those times where I get evidence for the silly notion that I can control the world based on my thoughts.
If I can, the next thing that will happen is they throw themselves at me.
posted by Dodecadermaldenticles at 10:13 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
If I can, the next thing that will happen is they throw themselves at me.
posted by Dodecadermaldenticles at 10:13 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
That Lawrence Block looks like it's deliberately cranking every pulpsploitation dial past 11. " The nymphomaniacal, blonde protagonist is also a sociopathic serial killer who drifts from town to town murdering her many men, motivated by lingering rage and abandonment issues left over from father/daughter incest that spilled over into patricide. " Not something I'm tempted to check out.
But I liked Burglars Can't Be Choosers and The Burglar Who Liked to Quote Kipling, which were funny mysteries (and I've liked Block's writing books.)
Speaking of Hard Case Crime, it's pretty hilarious that they repackaged Sherlock Holmes as pulp.
posted by Zed at 10:49 AM on September 22, 2011
But I liked Burglars Can't Be Choosers and The Burglar Who Liked to Quote Kipling, which were funny mysteries (and I've liked Block's writing books.)
Speaking of Hard Case Crime, it's pretty hilarious that they repackaged Sherlock Holmes as pulp.
posted by Zed at 10:49 AM on September 22, 2011
I personally have no problem with it, I believe that everyone should be allowed to go topless and/or pantsless whenever they want. However, yeah, if it's just promoting a book etc. that's kind of odd.
Also, every time I see LiB I keep reading it as Lil' B and keep getting amused and thinking of a MetaFilter style rapper. Heh.
posted by lizarrd at 10:56 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, every time I see LiB I keep reading it as Lil' B and keep getting amused and thinking of a MetaFilter style rapper. Heh.
posted by lizarrd at 10:56 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
And what if the topless female in question is 14 years old? She can't send a topless picture of herself to her boyfriend but she can walk down the street without a shirt?
Interesting questions. Does anyone know how the NY law applies to minors? It certainly does appear to be a bizarre and tricky situation, given the way that other laws would be in conflict with the "it's OK to go topless" one.
posted by asnider at 11:25 AM on September 22, 2011
Interesting questions. Does anyone know how the NY law applies to minors? It certainly does appear to be a bizarre and tricky situation, given the way that other laws would be in conflict with the "it's OK to go topless" one.
posted by asnider at 11:25 AM on September 22, 2011
Interesting questions. Does anyone know how the NY law applies to minors?
If it's based on the People vs. Santorelli, it doesn't appear to apply to minors at all. It says only "women," though I suppose that would be defined as adults.
Or maybe that too would be discriminatory.
posted by kgasmart at 2:07 PM on September 22, 2011
If it's based on the People vs. Santorelli, it doesn't appear to apply to minors at all. It says only "women," though I suppose that would be defined as adults.
Or maybe that too would be discriminatory.
posted by kgasmart at 2:07 PM on September 22, 2011
"About those books: Is the author any good? I've wanted to get into old detective books for a while, but read The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler and was really disappointed."
That's a shame. Why were you disappointed?
posted by klangklangston at 2:41 PM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's a shame. Why were you disappointed?
posted by klangklangston at 2:41 PM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]
That Lawrence Block looks like it's deliberately cranking every pulpsploitation dial past 11
I assume that's the point.
Speaking of Hard Case Crime, it's pretty hilarious that they repackaged Sherlock Holmes as pulp.
It might not be hardboiled, but Sherlock Holmes is detective fiction and its generally an easier read than someone like Chandler.
I found a copy of Portrait of the Artist As A Young Man that's done up like a pulp, playing on the sexuality and forbidden religion.
BTW, does anyone know enough about me IRL to wonder if the title of this indicated a self-link?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:34 PM on September 22, 2011
I assume that's the point.
Speaking of Hard Case Crime, it's pretty hilarious that they repackaged Sherlock Holmes as pulp.
It might not be hardboiled, but Sherlock Holmes is detective fiction and its generally an easier read than someone like Chandler.
I found a copy of Portrait of the Artist As A Young Man that's done up like a pulp, playing on the sexuality and forbidden religion.
BTW, does anyone know enough about me IRL to wonder if the title of this indicated a self-link?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:34 PM on September 22, 2011
I assume that's the point.
thence "deliberately".
does anyone know enough about me IRL to wonder if the title of this indicated a self-link?
Title as in "There are eight million stories in the Naked City" (no) or "The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society" (also no) ?
posted by Zed at 5:45 PM on September 22, 2011
thence "deliberately".
does anyone know enough about me IRL to wonder if the title of this indicated a self-link?
Title as in "There are eight million stories in the Naked City" (no) or "The Outdoor Co-ed Topless Pulp Fiction Appreciation Society" (also no) ?
posted by Zed at 5:45 PM on September 22, 2011
If it's based on the People vs. Santorelli, it doesn't appear to apply to minors at all. It says only "women," though I suppose that would be defined as adults.
Then cops could proof a topless woman to make sure she's old enough to be topless?
posted by pracowity at 10:04 PM on September 22, 2011
Then cops could proof a topless woman to make sure she's old enough to be topless?
posted by pracowity at 10:04 PM on September 22, 2011
It seems to me you guys are overthinking it. Men were allowed to go topless and so women had to be allowed to go topless. Boys are allowed to go topless therefore it seems likely that girls must be allowed to go topless. Do you really think a law would stand which allows a 19 year old male, a 19 year old female, and a 16 year old male to go topless but not a 16 year old female? No way.
posted by Justinian at 12:46 AM on September 23, 2011
posted by Justinian at 12:46 AM on September 23, 2011
It seems to me you guys are overthinking it. [...] Do you really think a law would stand
That all sounds quite reasonable, but I'm wondering how it would stand up to the reality. If there's a legal buck to be made selling tickets to (and souvenir video of) yoga and massage exhibitions starring well-oiled 13-year-old girls wearing nothing but Hello Kitty! panties, that buck will be made.
posted by pracowity at 1:37 AM on September 23, 2011
That all sounds quite reasonable, but I'm wondering how it would stand up to the reality. If there's a legal buck to be made selling tickets to (and souvenir video of) yoga and massage exhibitions starring well-oiled 13-year-old girls wearing nothing but Hello Kitty! panties, that buck will be made.
posted by pracowity at 1:37 AM on September 23, 2011
klangklangston: I was looking more for the almost poetic, metaphor and simile filled prose that I've seen in modern takes and parodies of the genre: For example Glenn Cook's Garette PI novels, or a few whose names escape me.
posted by Canageek at 4:41 PM on September 23, 2011
posted by Canageek at 4:41 PM on September 23, 2011
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posted by fatbird at 4:43 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]