March Madness Drama Derby
March 10, 2012 4:56 PM Subscribe
Vulture is running a March Madness Drama Derby to determine the greatest TV Drama of the past 25 years.
Every day, "[their] all-star judging panel of novelists, journalists, actors, and playwrights will take on the daunting task of figuring out which of these shows deserve to progress in the bracket — and which must stay behind, until New York Magazine TV critic Matt Zoller Seitz declares the ultimate winner on March 23."
The X-Files have already scored an early upset over The West Wing under the watch of David Lipsky.
Darin Strauss on The Sopranos vs Six Feet Under
Josh Wolk on The Shield vs NYPD Blue
Davy Rothbart on The Wire vs My So-Called Life
Steve Almond on Friday Night Lights vs Breaking Bad
See also: Fandom Steel Cage March Madness for a roundrobin death match of another variety. [via]
Every day, "[their] all-star judging panel of novelists, journalists, actors, and playwrights will take on the daunting task of figuring out which of these shows deserve to progress in the bracket — and which must stay behind, until New York Magazine TV critic Matt Zoller Seitz declares the ultimate winner on March 23."
The X-Files have already scored an early upset over The West Wing under the watch of David Lipsky.
Darin Strauss on The Sopranos vs Six Feet Under
Josh Wolk on The Shield vs NYPD Blue
Davy Rothbart on The Wire vs My So-Called Life
Steve Almond on Friday Night Lights vs Breaking Bad
See also: Fandom Steel Cage March Madness for a roundrobin death match of another variety. [via]
No mention of Walker, Texas Ranger?
posted by philip-random at 5:04 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 5:04 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
I get the impression they arranged the brackets no. 1 seed vs. no. 2 seed, no. 5 seed vs. no. 6 seed, no. 3 vs. 4, then no. 7 vs. 8., 'cause I don't see any of the second entries getting to the semifinals. Maybe Twin Peaks over Breaking Bad? Maybe? Mad Men over Buffy is... conceivable? The other possible matchups are walks.
posted by furiousthought at 5:30 PM on March 10, 2012
posted by furiousthought at 5:30 PM on March 10, 2012
If a person votes for any show other than The Wire, they must not have watched it.
posted by secondhand pho at 5:39 PM on March 10, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by secondhand pho at 5:39 PM on March 10, 2012 [13 favorites]
No mention of Walker, Texas Ranger?
I thought this was a strange omission, as well. Shows like Breaking Bad have nothing on the stark realism of Walker, Texas Ranger. Who could forget this moving moment?
posted by secret about box at 5:40 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
I thought this was a strange omission, as well. Shows like Breaking Bad have nothing on the stark realism of Walker, Texas Ranger. Who could forget this moving moment?
posted by secret about box at 5:40 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fast forward to they part where The Wire wins
posted by holdkris99 at 5:42 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by holdkris99 at 5:42 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
No LOST?
Jack's crying all the time, so it MUST be a drama :)
If they can't win, as they are my favorite, then I'll throw my hat in with Homicide: Life on the Street.
And no, I haven't seen The Wire.
posted by THAT William Mize at 5:54 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jack's crying all the time, so it MUST be a drama :)
If they can't win, as they are my favorite, then I'll throw my hat in with Homicide: Life on the Street.
And no, I haven't seen The Wire.
posted by THAT William Mize at 5:54 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
No mention of Walker, Texas Ranger?
Conan O'Brien is boycotting.
posted by kmz at 5:56 PM on March 10, 2012
Conan O'Brien is boycotting.
posted by kmz at 5:56 PM on March 10, 2012
I figure it's gonna be The Wire, unless they eliminate it because it's obviously the winner.
posted by crunchland at 5:58 PM on March 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 5:58 PM on March 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oz doesn't even get a nod?
posted by cmoj at 6:00 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cmoj at 6:00 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
Eliminating The West Wing in the first round? For shame!
posted by fifthrider at 6:05 PM on March 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by fifthrider at 6:05 PM on March 10, 2012 [4 favorites]
The West Wing is already out, and House wasn't even in the running?
Oh, and Lost is on there, if you view the full bracket.
ER was great when it started, and then it got hokey and the people that made it good all left. Same with West Wing. Dexter also started out well, and then ran aground with a thud after season 2. And William Petersen-era CSI was also a great show. I don't think that it deserves to be mentioned here now, though had it concluded it's run when he left instead of spawning a David Caruso meme I think it would have to at least have been considered.
posted by ninjew at 7:36 PM on March 10, 2012
Oh, and Lost is on there, if you view the full bracket.
ER was great when it started, and then it got hokey and the people that made it good all left. Same with West Wing. Dexter also started out well, and then ran aground with a thud after season 2. And William Petersen-era CSI was also a great show. I don't think that it deserves to be mentioned here now, though had it concluded it's run when he left instead of spawning a David Caruso meme I think it would have to at least have been considered.
posted by ninjew at 7:36 PM on March 10, 2012
1) Six Feet Under
2) The Wire
Very very close, but "Six Feet Under" wins on the strength of it's unforgettable ending, contrasted with the relative weakness of the "McNulty and the Bum" arc of the last Wire season. I don't know who's number three but it's a long way down from those two.
And the guy who said that about "Six Feet Under" was an idiot. It was exact opposite of "hip." It was *real.* Nate Fisher is more of a real person than a lot of actual people I've met. I feel like I knew the man, still. "The Sopranos" on the other hand, always felt contrived and trying a little too hard to be cool and shocking.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:52 PM on March 10, 2012
2) The Wire
Very very close, but "Six Feet Under" wins on the strength of it's unforgettable ending, contrasted with the relative weakness of the "McNulty and the Bum" arc of the last Wire season. I don't know who's number three but it's a long way down from those two.
And the guy who said that about "Six Feet Under" was an idiot. It was exact opposite of "hip." It was *real.* Nate Fisher is more of a real person than a lot of actual people I've met. I feel like I knew the man, still. "The Sopranos" on the other hand, always felt contrived and trying a little too hard to be cool and shocking.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:52 PM on March 10, 2012
And William Petersen-era CSI was also a great show. I don't think that it deserves to be mentioned here now, though had it concluded it's run when he left instead of spawning a David Caruso meme I think it would have to at least have been considered.
Eh, CSI has at best been a decent procedural. And David Caruso CSI (CSI: Miami) is a different show entirely from William Petersen CSI (plain jane CSI).
posted by kmz at 8:06 PM on March 10, 2012
Eh, CSI has at best been a decent procedural. And David Caruso CSI (CSI: Miami) is a different show entirely from William Petersen CSI (plain jane CSI).
posted by kmz at 8:06 PM on March 10, 2012
Here is another nod for Homicide for so many reasons but it doesn't hold up well after almost 15 years. TV was just different in the 90s - I don't think you can compare.. Unless of course they clearly define their criteria. If so, I apologize, but I'm on a cell and can't read the website to save my life.
posted by mbatch at 8:33 PM on March 10, 2012
posted by mbatch at 8:33 PM on March 10, 2012
If we stick to US TV, this is a good list. If not, I'd put Cracker with Robbie Coltrane on the list. It's from 1993, but somehow doesn't feel as dated as you'd expect.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:28 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:28 PM on March 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't believe I'm a dumb person, but at what point does The Wire become watchable without full and constant annotation? I've seen the first couple of episodes and between the 30 or so characters introduced either onscreen or via dialogue and the various mumbled references to whatever the hell is going on on the west side, it feels like all setup and no coherence.
posted by psoas at 11:31 PM on March 10, 2012
posted by psoas at 11:31 PM on March 10, 2012
The Sporanos vs. Six Feet Under?! Where is the Vote for Both button? So I can press the opposite.
posted by yerfatma at 11:45 PM on March 10, 2012
posted by yerfatma at 11:45 PM on March 10, 2012
No, wait, "The Sopranos". I would totally watch a show about the ex-Miami Dolphins coach.
posted by yerfatma at 11:46 PM on March 10, 2012
posted by yerfatma at 11:46 PM on March 10, 2012
psoas, The Wire is novelized TV. Rather than having a conflict and resolution in each episode (which you do get sometimes, though on a fairly small scale), each season is a story. Looked at as a 13-hour story, 2-3 hours of settling in, getting to know characters, etc. isn't that much time.
Also, since the idea may be a bit off-putting, let me vouch for the fact that it is absolutely worth it. I put off watching for years. All the cheerleading made me think that there was no way it could be that good. But it is. Maybe even better. I watched it last year and have to constantly remind myself of the other shows on my backlog to keep from tearing into it again. But I will weaken soon and find myself hanging out with McNulty, Bunk, Avon, Stringer, Bubbles, and OMAR again. Dear God, just writing this is making me want to start it up right now...
posted by Ducks or monkeys at 11:53 PM on March 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, since the idea may be a bit off-putting, let me vouch for the fact that it is absolutely worth it. I put off watching for years. All the cheerleading made me think that there was no way it could be that good. But it is. Maybe even better. I watched it last year and have to constantly remind myself of the other shows on my backlog to keep from tearing into it again. But I will weaken soon and find myself hanging out with McNulty, Bunk, Avon, Stringer, Bubbles, and OMAR again. Dear God, just writing this is making me want to start it up right now...
posted by Ducks or monkeys at 11:53 PM on March 10, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't believe I'm a dumb person, but at what point does The Wire become watchable without full and constant annotation?
You need to pull about halfway through the first season. Around there, it all clicks and you can't stop watching. I had a hard time too, at first. Definitely worth it.
posted by furiousthought at 12:28 AM on March 11, 2012
You need to pull about halfway through the first season. Around there, it all clicks and you can't stop watching. I had a hard time too, at first. Definitely worth it.
posted by furiousthought at 12:28 AM on March 11, 2012
I don't believe I'm a dumb person, but at what point does The Wire become watchable without full and constant annotation?
It takes a few episodes; I can't deny that. But that's because the show doesn't do dumb shit like having two CSI agents explain to each other what fingerprint analysis or whatever. It's worth it in the end. If you're having a hard time with the accent, subtitles have helped some. I actually started season 4 (which introduces a number of new young characters), and gave up after a few episodes. When I came back later and started the season from scratch, it clicked, and I had some idea who everybody was. So try going back to the first episode now that you've seen a few, and have at least some idea of who is in whose circle.
Anyways, I turned my old boss on to The Wire a couple of years ago. He was watching an episode, and his roommate comes in as it's starting and watches it with him. After it finished, the roommate turned to my old boss and says "This seems like a pretty good show, but I didn't know who was who and couldn't follow what was going on. I'd like to go back and try watching it from the first episode."
My old boss replies, "That was the first episode."
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 1:04 AM on March 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
It takes a few episodes; I can't deny that. But that's because the show doesn't do dumb shit like having two CSI agents explain to each other what fingerprint analysis or whatever. It's worth it in the end. If you're having a hard time with the accent, subtitles have helped some. I actually started season 4 (which introduces a number of new young characters), and gave up after a few episodes. When I came back later and started the season from scratch, it clicked, and I had some idea who everybody was. So try going back to the first episode now that you've seen a few, and have at least some idea of who is in whose circle.
Anyways, I turned my old boss on to The Wire a couple of years ago. He was watching an episode, and his roommate comes in as it's starting and watches it with him. After it finished, the roommate turned to my old boss and says "This seems like a pretty good show, but I didn't know who was who and couldn't follow what was going on. I'd like to go back and try watching it from the first episode."
My old boss replies, "That was the first episode."
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 1:04 AM on March 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
No love for Hill Street Blues or St. Elsewhere? They were pretty important to the evolution of the form, in their day.
posted by newdaddy at 4:04 AM on March 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by newdaddy at 4:04 AM on March 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I loved the X-Files but no way, just no way does it beat West Wing which was like the most eerily relevant and topical TV show ever, and showed us inside the machine that is the White House.
posted by thinkpiece at 5:03 AM on March 11, 2012
posted by thinkpiece at 5:03 AM on March 11, 2012
Mad Men over Buffy is... conceivable?
I was sure you made a mistake and had them swapped, but then I remembered this is Metafilter.
posted by rocket88 at 6:26 AM on March 11, 2012
I was sure you made a mistake and had them swapped, but then I remembered this is Metafilter.
posted by rocket88 at 6:26 AM on March 11, 2012
Much as I loved The Wire, my vote would still be for The Singing Detective.
posted by Jode at 6:55 AM on March 11, 2012
posted by Jode at 6:55 AM on March 11, 2012
I was sure you made a mistake and had them swapped
I may be unusually unimpressed by Mad Men. Personally, I'd rate Deadwood over Buffy and the subsequent matchup of whatever vs. Deadwood would be even less close.
posted by furiousthought at 10:14 AM on March 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
I may be unusually unimpressed by Mad Men. Personally, I'd rate Deadwood over Buffy and the subsequent matchup of whatever vs. Deadwood would be even less close.
posted by furiousthought at 10:14 AM on March 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hill Street Blues or St. Elsewhere? They were pretty important to the evolution of the form, in their day. --- I think it's because "in their day" was older than 25 years ago. The arbitrary cut off for the Vulture contest is 1987. Hill Street Blues premiered in 1981, and St. Elsewhere in 1982.
I'm really liking Justified. Anyone else?
posted by crunchland at 10:55 AM on March 11, 2012
I'm really liking Justified. Anyone else?
posted by crunchland at 10:55 AM on March 11, 2012
Justified is great and absolutely plays to what I love in a story (ie: I'm a big Elmore Leonard fan) ... but I wouldn't put it at the absolute TOP of the the past 25 years of TV. It's a little too conventional.
Hill Street Blues or St. Elsewhere?
Can't speak for St. Elsewhere but the last time I caught some Hill Street Blues, I cringed. It really hasn't aged well -- so full of itself as a cutting-edge-spare-no-grit DRAMA (with comic touches), which is ultimately not that sharp or gritty (or funny), particularly compared to what's come our way since.
Police Squad is a far better 80s TV cop show.
posted by philip-random at 12:14 PM on March 11, 2012
Hill Street Blues or St. Elsewhere?
Can't speak for St. Elsewhere but the last time I caught some Hill Street Blues, I cringed. It really hasn't aged well -- so full of itself as a cutting-edge-spare-no-grit DRAMA (with comic touches), which is ultimately not that sharp or gritty (or funny), particularly compared to what's come our way since.
Police Squad is a far better 80s TV cop show.
posted by philip-random at 12:14 PM on March 11, 2012
Twin Peaks vs. Battlestar Galactica? Seriously? BSG at its best was very, very good, but it in no way comes close to the sorts of innovations TP made, even when it was treading water.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:42 PM on March 11, 2012
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:42 PM on March 11, 2012
Also, I guess this should be "Best AMERICAN TV Drama."
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:43 PM on March 11, 2012
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:43 PM on March 11, 2012
Yeah, this should say "American" tv. Because the British Life on Mars would beat everything.
Except The Wire, which will win.
(I loved The X-Files, but it beat out The West Wing? I'm already unimpressed with this game.)
posted by tzikeh at 9:05 PM on March 11, 2012
Except The Wire, which will win.
(I loved The X-Files, but it beat out The West Wing? I'm already unimpressed with this game.)
posted by tzikeh at 9:05 PM on March 11, 2012
crunchland writes "I'm really liking Justified. Anyone else?"
1st season was great. Second season was good too but so depressing I put off watching season three. Third season is turning out great again though I fear there won't be enough people alive in Harlan to make a season four.
posted by Mitheral at 9:50 PM on March 11, 2012
1st season was great. Second season was good too but so depressing I put off watching season three. Third season is turning out great again though I fear there won't be enough people alive in Harlan to make a season four.
posted by Mitheral at 9:50 PM on March 11, 2012
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[Alan Ball, the creator of Six Feet Under] gave us sex addiction, “anger-management” issues, panic attacks, teenage drug use, the first televised depiction of gay marriage, and more contempo touches. Any one of these would be interesting; together, they got the show feeling a little à la mode, a little hip for hipness’s sake.
This argument makes absolutely no sense to me. All of those things are part and parcel of my life and the lives of those around me. Hell, one of the reasons why I love SFU was that it was the first dramedy to actually feel like real life, in an engaging way. I don't see how SFU was any less heightened or strange than The Sopranos, or even any less soapy, fucked-up, or wallow-y.
Also, in my opinion, Six Feet Under beats The Sopranos. For my money, Six Feet Under and The Wire are tied as HBO's best shows ever.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:02 PM on March 10, 2012 [5 favorites]