August 2012 shooting at Family Research Council
August 17, 2012 12:27 PM Subscribe
Two days ago in Washington, D.C. a gunman walked into the offices of the Family Research Council and fired a shot. He was carrying over a dozen Chick-Fil-A sandwiches and allegedly complained about the FRC's conservative politics before shooting a security guard.
The FRC has long lobbied against gay rights (previously, previouslier). The shooter was a volunteer at a local LGBT center. In response to the shooting, over 20 gay rights organizations signed a statement on GLAAD's site condemning the shooting.
Meanwhile, U.S. News asks whether the shooting is getting enough coverage.
The FRC has long lobbied against gay rights (previously, previouslier). The shooter was a volunteer at a local LGBT center. In response to the shooting, over 20 gay rights organizations signed a statement on GLAAD's site condemning the shooting.
Meanwhile, U.S. News asks whether the shooting is getting enough coverage.
I hope the security guard heals soon. Violence is not the answer for anyone to get their way.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [27 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [27 favorites]
It makes me sick that the FRC is treating this like it's the result of their being called a hate group. If someone goes and shoots up a KKK gathering? It's awful and horrible. It doesn't mean that the KKK's positions are right and that they're good people for advocating what they advocate. And yes, I think the FRC is an equivalent organization. The lies they've told in the service of keeping people like me from getting married? Not whitewashed by this particular event. I'm sorry the guy got shot, but that doesn't change everything.
posted by gracedissolved at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [49 favorites]
posted by gracedissolved at 12:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [49 favorites]
Terrible. Glad the shooter was stopped before he could do any more damage.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Our first concern is with our colleague who was shot today," the group's president, Tony Perkins, said in a statement.
Something tells me this is the first time Family Research Council president Tony Perkins has ever referred to the building's security guard as a "colleague."
posted by griphus at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2012 [66 favorites]
Something tells me this is the first time Family Research Council president Tony Perkins has ever referred to the building's security guard as a "colleague."
posted by griphus at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2012 [66 favorites]
This is a false PFLAG.
posted by humanfont at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 12:33 PM on August 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
Oh fuck this guy. Obviously, any incident like this is horrible but it bites especially hard to have someone pull horrific crimes like this and then claim to represent you.
But having said that, fuck the media circus that inevitably surrounds and perpetuates these things as well. If every shithead with a gun and a grudge wasn't plastered wall to wall for a fortnight, maybe fewer of them would think it was a good way to send a message.
posted by Drexen at 12:34 PM on August 17, 2012 [16 favorites]
But having said that, fuck the media circus that inevitably surrounds and perpetuates these things as well. If every shithead with a gun and a grudge wasn't plastered wall to wall for a fortnight, maybe fewer of them would think it was a good way to send a message.
posted by Drexen at 12:34 PM on August 17, 2012 [16 favorites]
I oppose the shooting and the FRC both.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:35 PM on August 17, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 12:35 PM on August 17, 2012 [23 favorites]
From the sounds of it, this man's attack can and should be treated as a hate crime.
posted by verb at 12:35 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by verb at 12:35 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Enough coverage? The shootings where someone or multiple people die get a lot of coverage. The security guard was not even seriously injured. How many non-lethal shootings, short of shooting someone famous, get more than one day of national news coverage?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm glad the security guard is okay (ish).
"Our first concern is with our colleague who was shot today," the group's president, Tony Perkins, said in a statement.
I hope that this is true.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Our first concern is with our colleague who was shot today," the group's president, Tony Perkins, said in a statement.
I hope that this is true.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Was he going to put a chicken sandwich on each of his victims?
Yeah, this is the most confusing part to me, too. Maybe he fancied himself like some sort of elegant assassin who always leaves a rose at the scene of every crime.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2012
Yeah, this is the most confusing part to me, too. Maybe he fancied himself like some sort of elegant assassin who always leaves a rose at the scene of every crime.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2012
How many non-lethal shootings, short of shooting someone famous, get more than one day of national news coverage?
The ones FoxNews thinks support their propaganda.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
The ones FoxNews thinks support their propaganda.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:40 PM on August 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
From the sounds of it, this man's attack can and should be treated as a hate crime.
He tried to murder someone for political reasons, namely support for anti-equality legislation. That's not hate crime, that's terrorism.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [27 favorites]
He tried to murder someone for political reasons, namely support for anti-equality legislation. That's not hate crime, that's terrorism.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [27 favorites]
Also, can any more salvos in the upcoming civil war please stop involving the god damn fried chicken company?
posted by griphus at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by griphus at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
posted by Renoroc at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
How many mass shootings and attempted mass shootings do we need to have this year to set a new record?
Presumably, FOX and other sources spent as much time on the right wing credentials of the crazy person who murdered the Sikhs as they are spending time on the left wing credentials of the crazy person who injured one white dude at the FRC.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Presumably, FOX and other sources spent as much time on the right wing credentials of the crazy person who murdered the Sikhs as they are spending time on the left wing credentials of the crazy person who injured one white dude at the FRC.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:44 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Perhaps there should be a waiting period when you buy Chicken Sandwiches or perhaps limit how many you can buy at one time.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by Confess, Fletch at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2012 [23 favorites]
Or perhaps he was fancying some break time between killings so he could enjoy some delicious pro-family chicken?
Chick-Fil-A: whatever your persuasion, it's the Taste of Hate(tm).
posted by jaduncan at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Chick-Fil-A: whatever your persuasion, it's the Taste of Hate(tm).
posted by jaduncan at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Maybe there's a secret ingredient in the sandwiches that sent him over the edge?
posted by ceribus peribus at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by ceribus peribus at 12:45 PM on August 17, 2012
You know, I've always been a little annoyed by the way right-wing extremists always seem to be the ones inflicting acts of domestic terrorism on liberals - whether it's shooting up abortion centers, beating up gay men, etc. And (up till now, at least) it's never been the liberals terrorising conservative extremists.
So while for the most part I feel terrible about this incident (as any good person would) I have to admit a small vindictive part of me can't help thinking "Good - it's about time they had a taste of their own medicine. Let's see how the other side likes living in fear for a change."
(By the way, I want to take the opportunity to distinguish "conservative" from "conservative extremists" so that the two are not conflated in my above statement. I have no problem with most Republicans - it's just the hyperconservative, frothing-at-the-mouth religious zealots that I object to.)
posted by wolfdreams01 at 12:46 PM on August 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
So while for the most part I feel terrible about this incident (as any good person would) I have to admit a small vindictive part of me can't help thinking "Good - it's about time they had a taste of their own medicine. Let's see how the other side likes living in fear for a change."
(By the way, I want to take the opportunity to distinguish "conservative" from "conservative extremists" so that the two are not conflated in my above statement. I have no problem with most Republicans - it's just the hyperconservative, frothing-at-the-mouth religious zealots that I object to.)
posted by wolfdreams01 at 12:46 PM on August 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
Surely this will bring about a reasonable gun control discussion.
Have you consulted with your local gun-toting homosexual or gun-hating gay-hater?
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Have you consulted with your local gun-toting homosexual or gun-hating gay-hater?
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
My god, it's a story that has all the hot-button issues you could ever want in one bun, smothered with cheese. Gay rights, hate groups, gun violence, fast food. This is the KFC Double-Down of stories.
posted by bicyclefish at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by bicyclefish at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2012 [16 favorites]
Maybe there's a secret ingredient in the sandwiches that sent him over the edge?
That would explain a lot!
posted by jason says at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2012
That would explain a lot!
posted by jason says at 12:47 PM on August 17, 2012
You know, along with all the shootings in the news there seems to have been an uptick in shootings here locally this year. As much as I believe in the right of citizens to bear arms, well, Houston, we have a problem. Unfortunately I believe the two sides on the gun control question are so polarized it may be very difficult to come up with a real solution.
(as an aside, I wonder how the shooter rationalized paying for all that chicken. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
(as an aside, I wonder how the shooter rationalized paying for all that chicken. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
A tempting thought but sounds unlikely and honestly nigh impossible to prove even if true. But that's kind of irrelevant to the more likely truth that this was a deeply disturbed individual. There has to be something pretty damned broken in your mental processes to believe that shooting up the place will solve your problems.
posted by Doleful Creature at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
A tempting thought but sounds unlikely and honestly nigh impossible to prove even if true. But that's kind of irrelevant to the more likely truth that this was a deeply disturbed individual. There has to be something pretty damned broken in your mental processes to believe that shooting up the place will solve your problems.
posted by Doleful Creature at 12:49 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
Or, more likely, a mentally unstable person whose politics just happen to align with your own. The right wing doesn't own a monopoly on nut jobs, you know. (Elected nut jobs, on the other hand...)
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2012
Or, more likely, a mentally unstable person whose politics just happen to align with your own. The right wing doesn't own a monopoly on nut jobs, you know. (Elected nut jobs, on the other hand...)
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2012
Looking at the shooter's picture, my first thought was "where is the six pack"?
posted by C.A.S. at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by C.A.S. at 12:50 PM on August 17, 2012
shooting people is insane.
at the same time, i could care less what the frc thinks, they're nutjob extremists. but nobody, including nutjob asshole extremists, should be the target of violence.
posted by facetious at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
at the same time, i could care less what the frc thinks, they're nutjob extremists. but nobody, including nutjob asshole extremists, should be the target of violence.
posted by facetious at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/08/17/gunman-responsible-for-family-research-council-shooting-is-charged/
posted by C.A.S. at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by C.A.S. at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2012
Or, more likely, a mentally unstable person whose politics just happen to align with your own. The right wing doesn't own a monopoly on nut jobs, you know.
I agree, but on the other hand we can't ignore the fact that one 'side' regularly engages in violent and eliminationist rhetoric, while the other 'side' generally doesn't.
For example, here's a message that could easily be interpreted to be a call to assassinate President Obama.
posted by muddgirl at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I agree, but on the other hand we can't ignore the fact that one 'side' regularly engages in violent and eliminationist rhetoric, while the other 'side' generally doesn't.
For example, here's a message that could easily be interpreted to be a call to assassinate President Obama.
posted by muddgirl at 12:52 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
The common problem in all this is the increasing gun culture--not chicken, civil rights, gay rights, first amendment, Sikhs, retribution, FRC, mental illness, White Power, failed exams or whatever. I lived and was active in the 1950-70 civil rights movement. There was violence, meanness, targeted hatred, vilification, bombings, days/weeks/years of vileness, shootings and lynchings. But the last 10 years of gun violence is simply outrageous, obscene and without purpose.
posted by rmhsinc at 12:55 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rmhsinc at 12:55 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Does the security guy who was shot even work for FRC, or was he just assigned there by the firm he works for? The shooting is terrible either way, but if the victim doesn't even work for the organization that the shooter was targeting...that seems even worse to me.
posted by asnider at 12:56 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by asnider at 12:56 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Was the security guy armed? I understand that's supposed to prevent shootings.
posted by ceribus peribus at 12:59 PM on August 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by ceribus peribus at 12:59 PM on August 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
The more skulduggery coming from whatever group, the more I suspect agents provocateurs. This worried me in the Oakland Occupy protests and it worries me here.
posted by jet_silver at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2012
The more skulduggery coming from whatever group, the more I suspect agents provocateurs. This worried me in the Oakland Occupy protests and it worries me here.
posted by jet_silver at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2012
but if the victim doesn't even work for the organization that the shooter was targeting...that seems even worse to me.
Getting shot seems pretty nasty, either way. That's sort of like the problematic rhetoric surrounding the Sikh temple shooting, which sometimes seemed to argue that it's more tragic because the shooter presumably thought he was attacking Muslims. If the shooter had targetted a mosque, would have been less tragic?
posted by muddgirl at 1:01 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Getting shot seems pretty nasty, either way. That's sort of like the problematic rhetoric surrounding the Sikh temple shooting, which sometimes seemed to argue that it's more tragic because the shooter presumably thought he was attacking Muslims. If the shooter had targetted a mosque, would have been less tragic?
posted by muddgirl at 1:01 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately I believe the two sides on the gun control question are so polarized it may be very difficult to come up with a real solution.That's... certainly one take. Another (mine) is that one side refuses to acknowledge the legitimacy of "gun control" as an aim no matter what the specifics, and thus will not discuss it in good faith. I'm not sure that's a polarized position so much as a disagreement on the premises.
(as an aside, I wonder how the shooter rationalized paying for all that chicken. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:49 PM on August 17
posted by TheNewWazoo at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2012
So while for the most part I feel terrible about this incident (as any good person would) I have to admit a small vindictive part of me can't help thinking "Good - it's about time they had a taste of their own medicine. Let's see how the other side likes living in fear for a change."
...the apparently completely innocent security guard is still in hospital, right?
posted by jaduncan at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
...the apparently completely innocent security guard is still in hospital, right?
posted by jaduncan at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
The above comment sounds like a right-wing plant, trying to stain left-wing message boards with the same kind of paranoia that causes every right wing board to react to right-wing scandals with 'it was a leftist plant!'
posted by FatherDagon at 1:03 PM on August 17, 2012 [21 favorites]
The above comment sounds like a right-wing plant, trying to stain left-wing message boards with the same kind of paranoia that causes every right wing board to react to right-wing scandals with 'it was a leftist plant!'
posted by FatherDagon at 1:03 PM on August 17, 2012 [21 favorites]
This was at the top of the news for three days where I am – at least on Google News and on the local channels, and even on the Denver Post, which I still look at a bit now and then.
Oak Creek, where six people were killed, got maybe a day of coverage.
posted by koeselitz at 1:05 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oak Creek, where six people were killed, got maybe a day of coverage.
posted by koeselitz at 1:05 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I sincerely hope that the victim recovers swiftly and safely, and is not bankrupted by medical bills.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:05 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:05 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Wait a second... I know exactly what happened here. Floyd went out to buy lunch and accidentally bought a Chick-Fil-A sandwich before he realized that he was hurting the gay rights movement. Stricken with remorse, but unable to stop cramming his face with that Chick-Fil-A deliciousness, he ordered another dozen sandwiches and rationalized it by telling himself he would shoot up the FRC later to make up for his gay rights "cheat day".
posted by wolfdreams01 at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by wolfdreams01 at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
Getting shot seems pretty nasty, either way. That's sort of like the problematic rhetoric surrounding the Sikh temple shooting, which sometimes seemed to argue that it's more tragic because the shooter presumably thought he was attacking Muslims. If the shooter had targetted a mosque, would have been less tragic?
Valid point. It sucks either way.
posted by asnider at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2012
Valid point. It sucks either way.
posted by asnider at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2012
I agree, but on the other hand we can't ignore the fact that one 'side' regularly engages in violent and eliminationist rhetoric, while the other 'side' generally doesn't.
Oh, I agree completely. I just think it looks bad when people from my side of the spectrum start spouting off conspiracy theories before all (or even some) of the facts are in. Leave that crap to the Breitbarts and Malkins of the world.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2012
Oh, I agree completely. I just think it looks bad when people from my side of the spectrum start spouting off conspiracy theories before all (or even some) of the facts are in. Leave that crap to the Breitbarts and Malkins of the world.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:06 PM on August 17, 2012
I sincerely hope that the victim recovers swiftly and safely, and is not bankrupted by medical bills.
Security guard shot whilst working? I'd be astonished if there's not an insanely high limit insurance authorisation already being approved.
posted by jaduncan at 1:07 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Security guard shot whilst working? I'd be astonished if there's not an insanely high limit insurance authorisation already being approved.
posted by jaduncan at 1:07 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Surely this will be portrayed as the work of a single crazed gunman, yes?
posted by LordSludge at 1:08 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by LordSludge at 1:08 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Something tells me this is the first time Family Research Council president Tony Perkins has ever referred to the building's security guard as a "colleague."
Tony Perkins has enough hateful opinions without trying to score a few extra points by accusing him of having other hateful opinions without evidence. For all we know Tony Perkins treats the security guards and maintenance staff of the building with love and respect; it doesn't matter.
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
You smell like someone who refuses to see that the world of violent people embraces people who believe all sorts of things, even things you agree with.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:09 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Tony Perkins has enough hateful opinions without trying to score a few extra points by accusing him of having other hateful opinions without evidence. For all we know Tony Perkins treats the security guards and maintenance staff of the building with love and respect; it doesn't matter.
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
You smell like someone who refuses to see that the world of violent people embraces people who believe all sorts of things, even things you agree with.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:09 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
I don't know, though the right-wing has a history.
What is a plot is the way this is national news. One guy wounded in a shooting? National news? Really? Seriously? Do you know how many people are shot and killed every day?
Oh, wait, it's FRC, and they have the support of FOX.
Let the Outrage commence.
posted by eriko at 1:10 PM on August 17, 2012
I don't know, though the right-wing has a history.
What is a plot is the way this is national news. One guy wounded in a shooting? National news? Really? Seriously? Do you know how many people are shot and killed every day?
Oh, wait, it's FRC, and they have the support of FOX.
Let the Outrage commence.
posted by eriko at 1:10 PM on August 17, 2012
Speaking as an EMT, gunshots are really, really awful. Looking for exit wounds, stabilizing everything because you have no idea what path the bullet really took, bleeding that soaks through layer after layer of gauze....
Violence is terrible, but gun violence is particularly vile. I really, literally, wouldn't wish that kind of wound on my worst enemy.
I hope the security guard recovers fully and quickly.
Has there been a lot more random gun violence recently, or am I just paying more attention? I don't know, but I think it will get worse before it gets better. Maybe increasingly divisive, divided politics are feeding into this.
posted by poe at 1:10 PM on August 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Violence is terrible, but gun violence is particularly vile. I really, literally, wouldn't wish that kind of wound on my worst enemy.
I hope the security guard recovers fully and quickly.
Has there been a lot more random gun violence recently, or am I just paying more attention? I don't know, but I think it will get worse before it gets better. Maybe increasingly divisive, divided politics are feeding into this.
posted by poe at 1:10 PM on August 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm very sorry this happened. I'm kind of surprised it hadn't happened before -- the FRC puts out a lot of heated rhetoric of the sort that's likely to get an unstable person to respond badly.
I'm not surprised that suddenly politically-motivated acts of violence are being called "terrorism" when committed by a left wing extremist, where the same people/groups haven't been called terrorism in the past when committed by right wing extremists.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:11 PM on August 17, 2012
I'm not surprised that suddenly politically-motivated acts of violence are being called "terrorism" when committed by a left wing extremist, where the same people/groups haven't been called terrorism in the past when committed by right wing extremists.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:11 PM on August 17, 2012
Yeah, Atom Eyes. Basically I wanted to say something completely unrelated to your point, and did it in a clunky way. The way I see it:
(1) People of all political stripes can act violently.
(2) BUT the target of that violence (their own family, their workplace, or a perceived enemy) can be shaped by environment.
and
(A) Calling someone a hate group is not violent or eliminationist.
(B) This is violent or eliminationist rhetoric.
Has there been a lot more random gun violence recently, or am I just paying more attention?
I think that the media is just paying more attention, which can cause a positive feedback loop (see my point #2). As President Obama remarked recently, how many gun deaths per day go unreported in the national news?
posted by muddgirl at 1:12 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
(1) People of all political stripes can act violently.
(2) BUT the target of that violence (their own family, their workplace, or a perceived enemy) can be shaped by environment.
and
(A) Calling someone a hate group is not violent or eliminationist.
(B) This is violent or eliminationist rhetoric.
Has there been a lot more random gun violence recently, or am I just paying more attention?
I think that the media is just paying more attention, which can cause a positive feedback loop (see my point #2). As President Obama remarked recently, how many gun deaths per day go unreported in the national news?
posted by muddgirl at 1:12 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Renoroc:Considering how deep this guy's history is going to be examined and how much he'll be questioned since he was taken alive, I really really doubt that. He'd have to have been a deep mole for a very long time for that to work.
"This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement."
posted by charred husk at 1:14 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
From the sounds of it, this man's attack can and should be treated as a hate crime.
The FRC may be Christians, in theory, but we don't know enough to say the security guard was attacked for being Christian. It could be that the shooter didn't like the FRC inciting hatred and violence against gay people, a view that, while being motivated by Christianity, is not necessarily one limited to Christians. No one knows, yet.
Surely this will be portrayed as the work of a single crazed gunman, yes?
Hah. Of course not. This is the work of a godless society that allows gay people to exist.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:15 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The FRC may be Christians, in theory, but we don't know enough to say the security guard was attacked for being Christian. It could be that the shooter didn't like the FRC inciting hatred and violence against gay people, a view that, while being motivated by Christianity, is not necessarily one limited to Christians. No one knows, yet.
Surely this will be portrayed as the work of a single crazed gunman, yes?
Hah. Of course not. This is the work of a godless society that allows gay people to exist.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:15 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
crazy person who injured one white dude at the FRC.
For Joey Michaels (and others). The local DC news has reported that the security guard, an 11 year employee of the FRC, was neither uniformed nor armed. He is also black, raised in SE DC.
posted by jindc at 1:15 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
For Joey Michaels (and others). The local DC news has reported that the security guard, an 11 year employee of the FRC, was neither uniformed nor armed. He is also black, raised in SE DC.
posted by jindc at 1:15 PM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, U.S. News asks whether the shooting is getting enough coverage.Pff, come on a shooting where no one died? With all the other shootings these days, if it wasn't for the twist of a liberal shooting conservatives it probably wouldn't even be in the news.
posted by delmoi at 1:17 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Perhaps there should be a waiting period when you buy Chicken Sandwiches or perhaps limit how many you can buy at one time.
You don't need sandwich control, what you need is some pullet control...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:18 PM on August 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
You don't need sandwich control, what you need is some pullet control...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:18 PM on August 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Unfortunately I believe the two sides on the gun control question are so polarized it may be very difficult to come up with a real solution.
Oh, stop with the both-sides-are-doing-it bullshit. Gun control advocates in the US would be to the right of center in every European country. Shall we put aside our differences and come to a compromise? That means disturbed teenagers can carry AR-15s with 30 rounds instead of 60 rounds.
posted by moammargaret at 1:19 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, stop with the both-sides-are-doing-it bullshit. Gun control advocates in the US would be to the right of center in every European country. Shall we put aside our differences and come to a compromise? That means disturbed teenagers can carry AR-15s with 30 rounds instead of 60 rounds.
posted by moammargaret at 1:19 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
This smells like a right-wing plant trying to stain the GLBT civil rights movement.
Ok um what, are we seriously going the conspiracy route here? I'd really rather just be extremely shocked to find this out than getting to be the first to "call it" in a political/culture war pissing match.
posted by windbox at 1:20 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ok um what, are we seriously going the conspiracy route here? I'd really rather just be extremely shocked to find this out than getting to be the first to "call it" in a political/culture war pissing match.
posted by windbox at 1:20 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Pff, come on a shooting where no one died? With all the other shootings these days, if it wasn't for the twist of a liberal shooting conservatives it probably wouldn't even be in the news.
You don't think if a conservative guy went into the lobby of the HRC and shot someone that would be in the news a bit? It wouldn't be a huge story, but neither was this. This seems fairly on par with coverage for the Holocaust Museum Shooting, which is roughly comparable.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:21 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
You don't think if a conservative guy went into the lobby of the HRC and shot someone that would be in the news a bit? It wouldn't be a huge story, but neither was this. This seems fairly on par with coverage for the Holocaust Museum Shooting, which is roughly comparable.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:21 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
IF ONLY FRC Listened to fellow conservatives and they were all armed they might have gunned him down....arm everyone! Only in backward places like China is it a serious crime to possess a gun.
posted by Postroad at 1:21 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by Postroad at 1:21 PM on August 17, 2012
You know what I blame this on the breakdown of? Society!
posted by infinitywaltz at 1:22 PM on August 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 1:22 PM on August 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Also, bringing chick-fil-a sandwiches on your attempted spree killing? How fucking stupid can you get? Was he planning on putting the sandwiches on the corpses like how they used pennies in the Boondock Saints or something?
This guy has actually done quite a bit to delegitimize the critics of that company, much more so if he'd actually succeed.
I mean did he look at the coverage sikh temple shooting and thing "Wow that shooter has really advanced his agenda"?
posted by delmoi at 1:24 PM on August 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
This guy has actually done quite a bit to delegitimize the critics of that company, much more so if he'd actually succeed.
I mean did he look at the coverage sikh temple shooting and thing "Wow that shooter has really advanced his agenda"?
posted by delmoi at 1:24 PM on August 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Not enough coverage? I have seen it covered by ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC, not to mention most print media and blogs that I read.
Google News search results for: 1517 news articles.
Also, "All 2,441 related articles".
posted by ericb at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Google News search results for: 1517 news articles.
Also, "All 2,441 related articles".
posted by ericb at 1:30 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yup, scumbag terrorist, he doesn't speak for me. Lock him up for life.
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you really want to do something involving a gun & Chick-fil-a, kidnap a couple of employees and make them open the place on Sunday to serve only you. Their tears of shame will give those sandwiches a flavor that those stupid pickles can't match.
posted by dr_dank at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by dr_dank at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2012
Oh goody, now we get to watch the right wing propagandists balance a pebble and a washtub of rocks.
posted by fleacircus at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
*Google News search results for: "family research council shooting":*
posted by ericb at 1:33 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by ericb at 1:33 PM on August 17, 2012
So the situation was not resolved by a concerned citizen blowing the shooter away? NRA fail.
Oh, and crazy asshole with gun is crazy asshole with gun, regardless of cause. That goes without saying.
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, and crazy asshole with gun is crazy asshole with gun, regardless of cause. That goes without saying.
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Cops have been unable to locate the bag of dozen tasty Chick-Fil-A sandwiches which mysteriously disappeared from the evidence room.
posted by Damienmce at 1:38 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Damienmce at 1:38 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
From the sounds of it, this man's attack can and should be treated as a hate crime.
Ironically the FRC opposes the very idea that hate crimes exist. Although apparently they're holding fast to that position, even when they're the victims of 'non-existent' hate crimes. So you know, that's something.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:48 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ironically the FRC opposes the very idea that hate crimes exist. Although apparently they're holding fast to that position, even when they're the victims of 'non-existent' hate crimes. So you know, that's something.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:48 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow - being unable to blame the SPLC Tony Perkins is now describing the " 'Clear Link' between the FRC Shooting and Obama Administration Policies".
Tony Perkins was best described by my lovely niece as a man who "obviously has a fondness for being a pass around bare back bottom party toy boy and won't admit it to himself." I could not have put it better.
posted by jason says at 1:52 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Tony Perkins was best described by my lovely niece as a man who "obviously has a fondness for being a pass around bare back bottom party toy boy and won't admit it to himself." I could not have put it better.
posted by jason says at 1:52 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
SPLC: Family Research Council License-to-Kill Claim ‘Outrageous’
posted by homunculus at 1:53 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 1:53 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow - being unable to blame the SPLC Tony Perkins is now describing the " 'Clear Link' between the FRC Shooting and Obama Administration Policies".
"Security guard, did you feel like this attacker just saw you as a cheap political prop? Well so do we!"
posted by jaduncan at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Security guard, did you feel like this attacker just saw you as a cheap political prop? Well so do we!"
posted by jaduncan at 1:55 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh great, so their that kind of conservatives? Even fucking better. The whining will never end on this. Congratulations, idiot.
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
O'Reilly Has No Problem With FRC's Perkins Blaming the SPLC For Shooting
posted by homunculus at 1:59 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by homunculus at 1:59 PM on August 17, 2012
This could've been awesome, had it involved a t-shirt launching gatling gun filled with chicken sandwiches instead.
posted by blaneyphoto at 2:02 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by blaneyphoto at 2:02 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thank you to jindc for correcting my error regarding the ethnicity of the security guard. I shouldn't assume that everyone who works the FRC is white. Indeed, I shouldn't assume that the security guard even works directly for the FRC.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:13 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:13 PM on August 17, 2012
Don't Gatling Guns reload themselves, I would argue that it's just a revolver.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 2:13 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Confess, Fletch at 2:13 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thank you to jindc for correcting my error regarding the ethnicity of the security guard. I shouldn't assume that everyone who works the FRC is white. Indeed, I shouldn't assume that the security guard even works directly for the FRC.
I will cynically lay money that
a) he did not;
b) isn't being paid a lot, and;
c) before today Tony Perkins did not know his name.
posted by jaduncan at 2:15 PM on August 17, 2012
I will cynically lay money that
a) he did not;
b) isn't being paid a lot, and;
c) before today Tony Perkins did not know his name.
posted by jaduncan at 2:15 PM on August 17, 2012
The argument is specious. There's a culture war going on alright; and the LGBT community has been falling on the front lines of that war for decades.
When these people talk about the Missouri lesbian that was savagely beaten on her front porch after having been pulled out of her house by teenagers who screamed anti-gay slurs at her while they beat her, when these people talk about the transgender girl who was found stabbed to death on the west side of chicago (the second transgender girl found dead there in two month), when these people talk about those victims of the culture war the same way they talk about this security guard that was working for a hate group - then I'll believe that they are being genuine. Until then they are bloviating.
By the way - I don't blame the nut job for being a nut job - but he does have to be prosecuted - violence is not the answer.
posted by mikehipp at 2:21 PM on August 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
When these people talk about the Missouri lesbian that was savagely beaten on her front porch after having been pulled out of her house by teenagers who screamed anti-gay slurs at her while they beat her, when these people talk about the transgender girl who was found stabbed to death on the west side of chicago (the second transgender girl found dead there in two month), when these people talk about those victims of the culture war the same way they talk about this security guard that was working for a hate group - then I'll believe that they are being genuine. Until then they are bloviating.
By the way - I don't blame the nut job for being a nut job - but he does have to be prosecuted - violence is not the answer.
posted by mikehipp at 2:21 PM on August 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
Gun control advocates in the US would be to the right of center in every European country. Shall we put aside our differences and come to a compromise? That means disturbed teenagers can carry AR-15s with 30 rounds instead of 60 rounds.
Yes, the "assault weapons ban" was anything but. It just made them change the shape and other minor bs, and only on newly manufactured weapons. When I tell this to people they're generally shocked. My mother said the me the other day that "well, now that you can buy these huge...what, ammo clips they're called?" And I said "well, you always could. They just weren't supposed to make new ones for a bit."
posted by nevercalm at 2:27 PM on August 17, 2012
Yes, the "assault weapons ban" was anything but. It just made them change the shape and other minor bs, and only on newly manufactured weapons. When I tell this to people they're generally shocked. My mother said the me the other day that "well, now that you can buy these huge...what, ammo clips they're called?" And I said "well, you always could. They just weren't supposed to make new ones for a bit."
posted by nevercalm at 2:27 PM on August 17, 2012
jason says: "Maybe there's a secret ingredient in the sandwiches that sent him over the edge?
That would explain a lot!"
It sounds like a plot from GI Joe, where COBRA implanted some crazy mind control drug in Chik-Fil-A or whatever...
posted by symbioid at 2:38 PM on August 17, 2012
That would explain a lot!"
It sounds like a plot from GI Joe, where COBRA implanted some crazy mind control drug in Chik-Fil-A or whatever...
posted by symbioid at 2:38 PM on August 17, 2012
No right-thinking person would defend this person's actions. I'm glad that he was apprehended quickly and that the security guard is recovering.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:08 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by en forme de poire at 3:08 PM on August 17, 2012
Let me get this straight. It's obviously NOT a left wing plot, but it's possible that it's a right wing plot?
This is why I love conspiracy theories- layers upon layers of paranoia. If you don't think it's a conspiracy, you're not informed or are a part of the conspiracy.
Guy was a nutjob with a gun and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
posted by pentagoet at 3:09 PM on August 17, 2012
This is why I love conspiracy theories- layers upon layers of paranoia. If you don't think it's a conspiracy, you're not informed or are a part of the conspiracy.
Guy was a nutjob with a gun and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
posted by pentagoet at 3:09 PM on August 17, 2012
Disturbed man has fill of anti-gay rhetoric, buys 15 boxes of chicken sandwiches from Chik-fil-a, wounds security guard who works in FRC building.
Sane people react with shock, horror, disgust, then lapse into a stupor as they contemplate the inevitable coming of the ripples. All the bats coming flying out of the belfry, batshit everywhere. Bill O's sponsors grin from ear to ear.
There is no conspiracy: they are really that many, and they are fucking nuts.
posted by mule98J at 4:37 PM on August 17, 2012
Sane people react with shock, horror, disgust, then lapse into a stupor as they contemplate the inevitable coming of the ripples. All the bats coming flying out of the belfry, batshit everywhere. Bill O's sponsors grin from ear to ear.
There is no conspiracy: they are really that many, and they are fucking nuts.
posted by mule98J at 4:37 PM on August 17, 2012
The local DC news has reported that the security guard, an 11 year employee of the FRC, was neither uniformed nor armed. He is also black, raised in SE DC.
"Security guard, did you feel like this attacker just saw you as a cheap political prop? Well so do we!"
Was the security guy armed? I understand that's supposed to prevent shootings.
If I may get up on my little soapbox for a minute, I think that the unarmed "security" guard industry (that is particularly present at institutional buildings in DC) is a fucking sham.
No guns, no Kevlar, no special access to 911, very little training, no real authority, no backup; just a pair of eyes and an ill-fitting blazer.
Who fills these jobs? Overwhelmingly, the "guards" are poor African-Americans, other lower income people, less educated people, elderly people, and a surprising number of working mothers.
The real reason unarmed private security guards are put in place at instutional buildings is so they can get shot standing by the front door rather than you or I. We get a communal whipping boy for the low price of minimum wage and some hassle when we have to show an ID to someone that doesn't have a secure entry system anyway. And that's fucking sickening.
I'm glad this guy is going to be all right; he certainly had the odds stacked heavily against him and received little recognition from anyone else in that building.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:56 PM on August 17, 2012 [13 favorites]
"Security guard, did you feel like this attacker just saw you as a cheap political prop? Well so do we!"
Was the security guy armed? I understand that's supposed to prevent shootings.
If I may get up on my little soapbox for a minute, I think that the unarmed "security" guard industry (that is particularly present at institutional buildings in DC) is a fucking sham.
No guns, no Kevlar, no special access to 911, very little training, no real authority, no backup; just a pair of eyes and an ill-fitting blazer.
Who fills these jobs? Overwhelmingly, the "guards" are poor African-Americans, other lower income people, less educated people, elderly people, and a surprising number of working mothers.
The real reason unarmed private security guards are put in place at instutional buildings is so they can get shot standing by the front door rather than you or I. We get a communal whipping boy for the low price of minimum wage and some hassle when we have to show an ID to someone that doesn't have a secure entry system anyway. And that's fucking sickening.
I'm glad this guy is going to be all right; he certainly had the odds stacked heavily against him and received little recognition from anyone else in that building.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 4:56 PM on August 17, 2012 [13 favorites]
Inspector.Gadget,
I generally agree with you about the farce that private security guards represent, however in this case it seems that the gentleman who was shot was in fact a long time employee of FRC and not one of the underpaid, undertrained, and underprepared private security guards. He's being described as a suit-wearing "Building Operations Manager". I don't claim to know what that title means, but he doesn't seem to fit the standard unarmed private security contractor profile.
To me this implies, that as distasteful as I find the FRC honchos, when they talk about this guy as a member of the organizational 'family', it sounds authentic.
posted by jindc at 7:41 PM on August 17, 2012
I generally agree with you about the farce that private security guards represent, however in this case it seems that the gentleman who was shot was in fact a long time employee of FRC and not one of the underpaid, undertrained, and underprepared private security guards. He's being described as a suit-wearing "Building Operations Manager". I don't claim to know what that title means, but he doesn't seem to fit the standard unarmed private security contractor profile.
To me this implies, that as distasteful as I find the FRC honchos, when they talk about this guy as a member of the organizational 'family', it sounds authentic.
posted by jindc at 7:41 PM on August 17, 2012
Inspector.Gadget: The real reason unarmed private security guards are put in place at instutional buildings is so they can get shot standing by the front door rather than you or I.
Whoa, are you serious? You have to remember that lunatic gunman rampages are incredibly unlikely. Against non-violent threats, which constitute the vast majority of security risks, an unarmed guard is fine. A vigilant person who is very familiar with the space can spot theft, he can spot vandalism, he can watch to see if anyone's doing anything unusual or threatening. He can make sure nobody is preparing an ambush for people coming or going. He'll know a lot of the people who use the building regularly, and might notice if a strange person enters (to say, leave with a armful of expensive equipment). He'll see if any unusual or threatening groups enter. He can keep threatening or inappropriate people out (like anyone extremely drunk or high). Not everyone will attack a security guard.
I'm not saying it's the most glamorous job, but I'm sure they're more useful than you think and I'm equally certain they're not just there to make targets for rampaging maniacs.
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:07 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whoa, are you serious? You have to remember that lunatic gunman rampages are incredibly unlikely. Against non-violent threats, which constitute the vast majority of security risks, an unarmed guard is fine. A vigilant person who is very familiar with the space can spot theft, he can spot vandalism, he can watch to see if anyone's doing anything unusual or threatening. He can make sure nobody is preparing an ambush for people coming or going. He'll know a lot of the people who use the building regularly, and might notice if a strange person enters (to say, leave with a armful of expensive equipment). He'll see if any unusual or threatening groups enter. He can keep threatening or inappropriate people out (like anyone extremely drunk or high). Not everyone will attack a security guard.
I'm not saying it's the most glamorous job, but I'm sure they're more useful than you think and I'm equally certain they're not just there to make targets for rampaging maniacs.
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:07 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Probably the security guards are mainly there to deal with unruly people, perhaps throw people out physically. I don't think they're hired to take down gunmen with their fists, even though that's apparently what happened in this case.
posted by delmoi at 8:53 PM on August 17, 2012
posted by delmoi at 8:53 PM on August 17, 2012
Because what can you say, really? Nobody wins here.
For real. It has to be so weird to look at all of this from the security guard's perspective, if he could see the kind of rhetorical artillery that's being lobbed back and forth over the fact that some loon walked in and shot him. This guy who holds a shit job that pays shit wages and isn't likely to be great in the way of benefits or upward mobility is now at this like nexus of vitriol and diatribe for, basically, doing his job.
And even if he did have a voice, what would it matter when there's so many other more important people saying more important things? This guy, if he doesn't become a media sensation, is like the living embodiment of the hapless hero of modern literary fiction, where all the small stuff in his life just added up one day in this totally nonsensical fashion and he ends up in a hospital, misses his chance at being a hero and it's like, where the hell do you go from there?
Which is all pretty much to say that character assassination, as fundamental as it is to just about every conversation about politics, is probably better left off to the people actually saying things and not so much the guy who got shot, at least until he chooses to say something himself.
posted by dubusadus at 9:21 PM on August 17, 2012
For real. It has to be so weird to look at all of this from the security guard's perspective, if he could see the kind of rhetorical artillery that's being lobbed back and forth over the fact that some loon walked in and shot him. This guy who holds a shit job that pays shit wages and isn't likely to be great in the way of benefits or upward mobility is now at this like nexus of vitriol and diatribe for, basically, doing his job.
And even if he did have a voice, what would it matter when there's so many other more important people saying more important things? This guy, if he doesn't become a media sensation, is like the living embodiment of the hapless hero of modern literary fiction, where all the small stuff in his life just added up one day in this totally nonsensical fashion and he ends up in a hospital, misses his chance at being a hero and it's like, where the hell do you go from there?
Which is all pretty much to say that character assassination, as fundamental as it is to just about every conversation about politics, is probably better left off to the people actually saying things and not so much the guy who got shot, at least until he chooses to say something himself.
posted by dubusadus at 9:21 PM on August 17, 2012
Maybe there's a secret ingredient in the sandwiches that sent him over the edge?
No, the hatred, bigotry, intolerance, and discrimination are publicly and proudly acknowledged by Chick-Fil-A.
Ongoing gun violence and periodic massacres are apparently a price enough Americans are willing to pay to maintain robust Second Amendment rights.
Let me add my voice to the others above and say that I condemn this act of violence, I'm glad the security guard's injuries are not any more severe than they are, I'm glad no one else was hurt, and the shooter did a disservice to the cause he meant to support.
posted by Daddy-O at 10:08 PM on August 17, 2012
No, the hatred, bigotry, intolerance, and discrimination are publicly and proudly acknowledged by Chick-Fil-A.
Ongoing gun violence and periodic massacres are apparently a price enough Americans are willing to pay to maintain robust Second Amendment rights.
Let me add my voice to the others above and say that I condemn this act of violence, I'm glad the security guard's injuries are not any more severe than they are, I'm glad no one else was hurt, and the shooter did a disservice to the cause he meant to support.
posted by Daddy-O at 10:08 PM on August 17, 2012
I mean exactly every word when I say:
He shouldn't have shot the security guard.
posted by mobunited at 1:31 AM on August 18, 2012
He shouldn't have shot the security guard.
posted by mobunited at 1:31 AM on August 18, 2012
I'm so sorry to hear this. The FRC is vile, but they dont deserve to be shot and shooting at them doesn't help LGBT rights at all. And what if an innocent bystander had been killed? I hope the security guard recovers as quickly as possible.
posted by harriet vane at 2:16 AM on August 18, 2012
posted by harriet vane at 2:16 AM on August 18, 2012
Family Research Council Ramps Up Attacks on Southern Poverty Law Center
posted by homunculus at 3:36 PM on August 20, 2012
posted by homunculus at 3:36 PM on August 20, 2012
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posted by zombieflanders at 12:31 PM on August 17, 2012 [29 favorites]