Hitler's plans for the world's largest stadium
October 25, 2012 12:05 PM Subscribe
A permanent site for the Olympics isn't the worst idea in the world. Certainly cheaper, although it goes against the explicit internationality of the Olympic movement. Shame about the megalomania, Nazism, and not building the stadium to the correct specs.
posted by figurant at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by figurant at 12:12 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
I am against this.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:17 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:17 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
400,000 seat stadiums. Just another thing Hitler ruined for the rest of us.
posted by found missing at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by found missing at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
Prior to construction, the architect had pointed out to the Nazi dictator that the measurements of "his" playing fields did not match official Olympic dimensions. But Hitler was unconcerned and retorted: "That's totally unimportant. The 1940 Olympics will be taking place in Tokyo. But after that they will be held for all eternity in Germany -- and in this stadium. And it is we who will determine how the sporting field is measured."
John Clarke: Mr. Hitler, how long is the 100 meters track?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
John Clarke: Mr. Hitler, how long is the 100 meters track?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:22 PM on October 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
Achtel is a village of about 180 people located near Hirschbach. Humorously, it is further divided into Upper Achtel and Lower Achtel, as you can see here on Google Maps. I like to imagine a rivalry between the two, with Upper Achtelers looking down on those grubby Lower Achtelers, and Lower Achtelers complaining about elitist Upper Achtelers being out of touch with the Real Achtel.
Anyway, on that same link you can see what little remains of the stadium model (location taken from this page on German Wikipedia).
posted by jedicus at 12:23 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Anyway, on that same link you can see what little remains of the stadium model (location taken from this page on German Wikipedia).
posted by jedicus at 12:23 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
tl;dr--how'd it work out for him?
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hitler and Speer were big proponents of Ruin Value in architecture.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2012 [8 favorites]
Ruins found here.
See also above, doh!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2012
See also above, doh!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2012
There's just something about that quote that so succinctly sums up Hitler's megalomania.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
The Ruin Value post is fascinating; thanks.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:46 PM on October 25, 2012
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:46 PM on October 25, 2012
Hitler was kind of crazy, wasn't he?
posted by i_have_a_computer at 12:52 PM on October 25, 2012
posted by i_have_a_computer at 12:52 PM on October 25, 2012
You know who else built a giant concrete stadium?
Indianapolis Motor Speedway seats over 250,000. Mind you, it's spread out over a 2.5 mile course that also contains an 18 hole golf course. Gives a sense of just how BIG (ie: batshitinsane) Hitler and co were thinking.
posted by philip-random at 12:53 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
The first paragraph in particular goes against the usual grain of ruinenlust, the Ozymandius-style ‘all things pass’ attitude, by pushing through the melancholy and seeing it as an exhortation to greatness.
Woah, a sentence so perfectly summarizing my thoughts as I read through the Ruin Value passage by Speer.
posted by jimmythefish at 12:53 PM on October 25, 2012
Woah, a sentence so perfectly summarizing my thoughts as I read through the Ruin Value passage by Speer.
posted by jimmythefish at 12:53 PM on October 25, 2012
The first paragraph in particular goes against the usual grain of ruinenlust, the Ozymandius-style ‘all things pass’ attitude, by pushing through the melancholy and seeing it as an exhortation to greatness.
This is how I feel about my recently-obsolete iPad3.
posted by horsewithnoname at 1:03 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
This is how I feel about my recently-obsolete iPad3.
posted by horsewithnoname at 1:03 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
Banners everywhere .. military garrisons .. restrictions on speech and movement ..
So how would this be distinguishable from the current IOC?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:03 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
So how would this be distinguishable from the current IOC?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:03 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm reminded now of the depressingly unknown animated movie(s) Animalympics. Made in 1980 by Lisberger Studios (yes, that Lisberger, the one who made Tron) for NBC as part of their Olympic coverage, and then half of it shot down due to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and the US refusal to go to the Summer Olympics. Later edited into a single movie-length version and, for some reason unavailable for purchase in the US.
Now, the reason this is reminding me is that the Animalympics is held in 'Pawprint Stadium', which is located on an island in international waters, and it's implied that it's specifically to avoid all kinds of weirdness with politics. Which again, brings up the idea of a permanent location for the Olympics...
...except I don't think there's the political will, the economic desire, or a spare island lying about not claimed by any polity on the planet.
posted by mephron at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
Now, the reason this is reminding me is that the Animalympics is held in 'Pawprint Stadium', which is located on an island in international waters, and it's implied that it's specifically to avoid all kinds of weirdness with politics. Which again, brings up the idea of a permanent location for the Olympics...
...except I don't think there's the political will, the economic desire, or a spare island lying about not claimed by any polity on the planet.
posted by mephron at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
Indianapolis Motor Speedway seats over 250,000. Mind you, it's spread out over a 2.5 mile course that also contains an 18 hole golf course. Gives a sense of just how BIG (ie: batshitinsane) Hitler and co were thinking.
Yeah, but I'd like to see you just try and get thousands of prancing farm animals in there!
WARNING: Nightmare fuel!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but I'd like to see you just try and get thousands of prancing farm animals in there!
WARNING: Nightmare fuel!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
So how would this be distinguishable from the current IOC?
No cute mascots, although I'd bet deutschmarks to donuts that Goebbels had Sieggy the Swastika somewhere in the back of his head at some point.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
No cute mascots, although I'd bet deutschmarks to donuts that Goebbels had Sieggy the Swastika somewhere in the back of his head at some point.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:05 PM on October 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
German exceptionalism at its worst!
posted by Danf at 1:13 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Danf at 1:13 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Nazis had so many grandiose plans for rebuilding the country. And they wanted it to be stone masonry as much as possible.
Which is why the prison camps were usually right next to quarries.
So at the end of the war, there was a lot of fresh cut masonry lying around waiting to be used.
I've seen a little bit of Germany. Absolutely beautifully built. And walking through some towns and villages, with their gorgeous post-war stone masonry houses, I had to wonder where they got it.
(No, really, I would like to know if anyone assembled an accounting of where the materiel for the post war construction came from.)
posted by ocschwar at 1:14 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Which is why the prison camps were usually right next to quarries.
So at the end of the war, there was a lot of fresh cut masonry lying around waiting to be used.
I've seen a little bit of Germany. Absolutely beautifully built. And walking through some towns and villages, with their gorgeous post-war stone masonry houses, I had to wonder where they got it.
(No, really, I would like to know if anyone assembled an accounting of where the materiel for the post war construction came from.)
posted by ocschwar at 1:14 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
From the rubble of pre-war construction?
posted by Splunge at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
How big does the parking lot for a 400,000 seat stadium need to be?
posted by ook at 1:31 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ook at 1:31 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, but I'd like to see you just try and get thousands of prancing farm animals in there!
WARNING: Nightmare fuel!
North Korea - a prime example that when faced with a problem or bad situation, the "I know, let's put on a show!" idea is not always the answer.
posted by chambers at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
WARNING: Nightmare fuel!
North Korea - a prime example that when faced with a problem or bad situation, the "I know, let's put on a show!" idea is not always the answer.
posted by chambers at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Indianapolis Motor Speedway seats over 250,000. Mind you, it's spread out over a 2.5 mile course that also contains an 18 hole golf course.
Just for accuracy's sake, it should be pointed out that only 4 holes of the golf course are actually inside the track. The remaining 14 holes are outside the track.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just for accuracy's sake, it should be pointed out that only 4 holes of the golf course are actually inside the track. The remaining 14 holes are outside the track.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
How big does the parking lot for a 400,000 seat stadium need to be?
The nazis were really big on trains, apparently.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:33 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
The nazis were really big on trains, apparently.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:33 PM on October 25, 2012 [3 favorites]
Surely the parking lot for trains would be even bigger?
posted by arcticseal at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2012 [7 favorites]
How big does the parking lot for a 400,000 seat stadium need to be?
And the true reasoning for the annexing of Czechoslovakia is finally revealed.
posted by chambers at 1:35 PM on October 25, 2012 [10 favorites]
And the true reasoning for the annexing of Czechoslovakia is finally revealed.
posted by chambers at 1:35 PM on October 25, 2012 [10 favorites]
How big does the parking lot for a 400,000 seat stadium need to be?Well, there's this thing called a VW Bug... and you can park three of them in the space it takes to park a Tahoe. Which is why this idea makes sense in Europe, but not in the US.
I think.
/wait, what?!?
posted by Blue_Villain at 1:42 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
But even Hitler drew the line at the PSL.
posted by Zonker at 1:50 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Zonker at 1:50 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hitler, the progenitor of a long line of "no, building a taxpayer funded stadium is a great idea!" team owners.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 1:54 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 1:54 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wonder what was set to happen in the Zeppelinfeld.
And while I know it's not, I like to think that the Lager on that map is a gigantic beer garden.
posted by COBRA! at 2:00 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
And while I know it's not, I like to think that the Lager on that map is a gigantic beer garden.
posted by COBRA! at 2:00 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
In case anyone else is curious about the Zeppelinfeld.
posted by COBRA! at 2:11 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by COBRA! at 2:11 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
How big does the parking lot for a 400,000 seat stadium need to be?
Well, if you use the University of Michigan's philosophy on this, their 100,000 + football stadium has a parking lot that holds, well, basically -0- cars. So it would be about 4 times that number.
posted by HuronBob at 2:13 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, if you use the University of Michigan's philosophy on this, their 100,000 + football stadium has a parking lot that holds, well, basically -0- cars. So it would be about 4 times that number.
posted by HuronBob at 2:13 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
And it is we who will determine how the sporting field is measured.
This is excellent ammunition for my war against people who brazenly disregard technical standards. You know who else would have omitted a DOCTYPE declaration?
posted by invitapriore at 3:07 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
This is excellent ammunition for my war against people who brazenly disregard technical standards. You know who else would have omitted a DOCTYPE declaration?
posted by invitapriore at 3:07 PM on October 25, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's like the Barclays Center all over again.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:15 PM on October 25, 2012
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:15 PM on October 25, 2012
Sieggy the Swastika
Steffen the Storm Trooper
Rüdiger the Racially Pure Reindeer
Mandy the Master Race Monkey
Torsten the Tiger Tank
Seffi the Silly Stuka
Lena the Luger
Mitzi the Merry Messerschmitt
Jana the Jolly Jackboot
posted by mattoxic at 7:58 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Steffen the Storm Trooper
Rüdiger the Racially Pure Reindeer
Mandy the Master Race Monkey
Torsten the Tiger Tank
Seffi the Silly Stuka
Lena the Luger
Mitzi the Merry Messerschmitt
Jana the Jolly Jackboot
posted by mattoxic at 7:58 PM on October 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
In the RuinenLust article, what does he mean by the comment about a certain basement in Siberia where Hitler could find what really became of the roman emperors?
posted by spicynuts at 8:00 PM on October 25, 2012
posted by spicynuts at 8:00 PM on October 25, 2012
Welthauptstadt Germania is really amazing too. All despicableness of the Nazi's aside, Hitler and Speer's crazy architecture was beyond anything else that had been built. The Volkshalle would have dwarfed St. Peter's Basilica and any other domed building on the planet. Someone needs to make an alternate-history film with decent renderings of this crap, just to get a real feel for what they were planning.
posted by pashdown at 8:46 PM on October 25, 2012
posted by pashdown at 8:46 PM on October 25, 2012
what does he mean by the comment about a certain basement in Siberia where Hitler could find what really became of the roman emperors?
Caesar -> Czar?
posted by zippy at 9:04 PM on October 25, 2012
Caesar -> Czar?
posted by zippy at 9:04 PM on October 25, 2012
... and what happened to the last Czar in the Russian Revolution
posted by zippy at 9:04 PM on October 25, 2012
posted by zippy at 9:04 PM on October 25, 2012
Indianapolis Motor Speedway seats over 250,000. Mind you, it's spread out over a 2.5 mile course that also contains an 18 hole golf course.
And the world's most awesome golf carts.
posted by stargell at 9:16 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
And the world's most awesome golf carts.
posted by stargell at 9:16 PM on October 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wonder what was set to happen in the Zeppelinfeld.
Rallies full of drunken, shouting, blindly devoted followers. Now it's used for rock festivals and automobile racing, so that all worked out about the same in the end. However, it needs approximately €70 million in renovations (here's how part of it looks today), and the city doesn't want to pay for all of that alone, so who knows what'll happen to it in the future.
On a related note, one of the few other surviving bits of Albert Speer's architecture is also in Nuremberg, and presents a strange visual clash.
(No, really, I would like to know if anyone assembled an accounting of where the materiel for the post war construction came from.)
Rubble. Women took the task of sorting the reusable rubble for building from that which they could sell to the Allies as part of war reparations. Then most of the buildings later built in the '50s and '60s boom were brick or concrete, just like they are today (although today they're usually concrete with insulating foam attached to the sides).
posted by cmonkey at 2:18 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
Rallies full of drunken, shouting, blindly devoted followers. Now it's used for rock festivals and automobile racing, so that all worked out about the same in the end. However, it needs approximately €70 million in renovations (here's how part of it looks today), and the city doesn't want to pay for all of that alone, so who knows what'll happen to it in the future.
On a related note, one of the few other surviving bits of Albert Speer's architecture is also in Nuremberg, and presents a strange visual clash.
(No, really, I would like to know if anyone assembled an accounting of where the materiel for the post war construction came from.)
Rubble. Women took the task of sorting the reusable rubble for building from that which they could sell to the Allies as part of war reparations. Then most of the buildings later built in the '50s and '60s boom were brick or concrete, just like they are today (although today they're usually concrete with insulating foam attached to the sides).
posted by cmonkey at 2:18 AM on October 26, 2012 [2 favorites]
On a related note, one of the few other surviving bits of Albert Speer's architecture is also in Nuremberg, and presents a strange visual clash.
Das Burgerking!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:51 PM on October 26, 2012
Das Burgerking!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:51 PM on October 26, 2012
stargell: "Indianapolis Motor Speedway seats over 250,000. Mind you, it's spread out over a 2.5 mile course that also contains an 18 hole golf course.
And the world's most awesome golf carts."
I picture Groundskeeper Willie screaming at a small tank tearing up the green. He's slamming it with a rake and yelling, "Ya Nazi bastards I keep tellin' ya to keep to the roads!"
posted by Splunge at 7:54 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
And the world's most awesome golf carts."
I picture Groundskeeper Willie screaming at a small tank tearing up the green. He's slamming it with a rake and yelling, "Ya Nazi bastards I keep tellin' ya to keep to the roads!"
posted by Splunge at 7:54 PM on October 26, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by ob at 12:11 PM on October 25, 2012