Sharon wants 1 million new Jews for Israel.
November 7, 2001 11:38 AM Subscribe
Sharon wants 1 million new Jews for Israel. This strange headline begs the question: Will they come shrink-wrapped? But seriously...
I also wonder about the timing of the announcement. It doesn't seem to make much public relations sense, given the growing international sympathy for Palestinian statehood.
posted by Ty Webb at 11:44 AM on November 7, 2001
posted by Ty Webb at 11:44 AM on November 7, 2001
When did the current Israeli government ever consider whether their actions make public relations sense?
posted by kerplunk at 11:48 AM on November 7, 2001
posted by kerplunk at 11:48 AM on November 7, 2001
Sounds like a government-based attempt to create jobs to me. With a million "new jews" I can only imagine that they'll need quite a few new mohels to keep up with the demand.
posted by pjdoland at 12:07 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by pjdoland at 12:07 PM on November 7, 2001
Dear Kerplunk--you may find this difficult to believe but if you will lcheck the papers for the past few months you will see that both the Palestinians and the Israelis are and continue to be very aware of public relations and the image portrayed. Now you may not like Israel and its actions and that is of course ok; but to think that they would skip out on what is very important in world-wide support etc plain silly. After all, those who do not like Israel for whatever reasons constantly make note of the great amount of aid (money) that American supplies them. Do you think they would knowlingly look lousy and lousier and risk losing this help?
posted by Postroad at 12:33 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by Postroad at 12:33 PM on November 7, 2001
For sale: One beautiful 2-story victorian home, 3BR/2BA, garage, central air/heat, fireplace, bomb-proof, Kevlar wardrobe included.
posted by fooljay at 12:34 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by fooljay at 12:34 PM on November 7, 2001
Public Relations often has very little to do with actions. Often, PR is used to precisely to deflect attention from actions.
posted by cell divide at 12:35 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by cell divide at 12:35 PM on November 7, 2001
Do you think they would knowlingly look lousy and lousier and risk losing this help?
And yet... ::: points :::
posted by rushmc at 12:38 PM on November 7, 2001
And yet... ::: points :::
posted by rushmc at 12:38 PM on November 7, 2001
Public Relations often has very little to do with actions. Often, PR is used to precisely to deflect attention from actions.
This is exactly right. Israel has been very successful in the past saying one thing and doing another, as has the PLO, but Israel has always been better at it. Lately, though, Sharon seems to have disregarded the need for media relations and damage control.
posted by Ty Webb at 1:16 PM on November 7, 2001
This is exactly right. Israel has been very successful in the past saying one thing and doing another, as has the PLO, but Israel has always been better at it. Lately, though, Sharon seems to have disregarded the need for media relations and damage control.
posted by Ty Webb at 1:16 PM on November 7, 2001
This reminds me of the push westward for the US. We too had a problems with so called "Natives". Luckily we were able to get rid of them in a humane and just manner.
posted by geoff. at 1:34 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by geoff. at 1:34 PM on November 7, 2001
I say, tick off as many Palestinian Arabs as possible. They deserve it. Perhaps, someday, in some century, the Muslim world will ask why Israel is the only country in the Mideast which is not a part of the developing (impoverished) world. Hmmmm...
posted by ParisParamus at 1:37 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 1:37 PM on November 7, 2001
I say, tick off as many Palestinian Arabs as possible. They deserve it.
Nice troll, that.
in some century, the Muslim world will ask why Israel is the only country in the Mideast which is not a part of the developing (impoverished) world. Hmmmm...
Hmmm...why not ask ParisParamus why Israel is the only country in the Mideast which is not a part of the developing (impoverished) world?
posted by Ty Webb at 1:58 PM on November 7, 2001
Nice troll, that.
in some century, the Muslim world will ask why Israel is the only country in the Mideast which is not a part of the developing (impoverished) world. Hmmmm...
Hmmm...why not ask ParisParamus why Israel is the only country in the Mideast which is not a part of the developing (impoverished) world?
posted by Ty Webb at 1:58 PM on November 7, 2001
The "new" in "new jews" was cordially provided by The Guardian, btw. Slight whiff of unconscious anti-semitism? Smells like it to me.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:11 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:11 PM on November 7, 2001
<offtopic>
That Guardian link causes my machine to instantly blackscreen ... boohoo!
</offtopic
posted by walrus at 2:43 PM on November 7, 2001
That Guardian link causes my machine to instantly blackscreen ... boohoo!
</offtopic
posted by walrus at 2:43 PM on November 7, 2001
OK, this makes perfect sense and is very in keeping with Sharon's personality. Yes, it's inflammatory, yes it's bad PR, but you know what?
It's a great bargaining chip.
I hear this and I hear that Sharon is expecting to be back at the table with Arafat, and he wants things that he can "give up" with no cost before he has to give up things that cost, like land -- or as noted, East Jerusalem.
It also cuts two ways, as back insurance against the eventual Palestinian right of return being forced on Israel. Sharon wants a Jewish majority if that ever happens.
It may not be great politics or public relations,, but it's great poker.
posted by dhartung at 3:12 PM on November 7, 2001
It's a great bargaining chip.
I hear this and I hear that Sharon is expecting to be back at the table with Arafat, and he wants things that he can "give up" with no cost before he has to give up things that cost, like land -- or as noted, East Jerusalem.
It also cuts two ways, as back insurance against the eventual Palestinian right of return being forced on Israel. Sharon wants a Jewish majority if that ever happens.
It may not be great politics or public relations,, but it's great poker.
posted by dhartung at 3:12 PM on November 7, 2001
Ty Webb, I would have said " A$k Pari$ Paramu$ why I$rael i$ the only country in the Midea$t which i$ not a part of the developing (impoveri$hed) world?".
posted by mmarcos at 3:34 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by mmarcos at 3:34 PM on November 7, 2001
The main reason that Sharon (and pretty much everyone else in Israel) wants this is that it's very, very tricky to be a free society (which Israel, most of the time is within its Internationally recognized borders) and also be a state dedicated as a homeland for a single group. The problem is that the Arab minority has a much higher birthrate than the Jewish minority, and that up to 1/3 of the first million Jews from Russia turned out to be not actually Jewish. Some estimates show up 40% of the Jewish state being not Jewish in the next 20 years-- a big problem in a Democracy that wants to also be a homeland.
posted by cell divide at 4:04 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by cell divide at 4:04 PM on November 7, 2001
Sharon is trolling..
Is it just me, or has he been randomly spitting out stuff for a while now? Comments like comparing Arafat to bin Laden/Hitler and calling American foreign policy towards Israel akin to appeasement (to the Palestinians, of course (?)). His underling spin type people must be having great fun spinning his statements into something palatable..
btw, are countries like Kuwait, Dubai and Saudi Arabia considered impoverished? As they were faaaar nicer than England when I went there... Bit cold though (damn ac)
posted by Mossy at 4:16 PM on November 7, 2001
Is it just me, or has he been randomly spitting out stuff for a while now? Comments like comparing Arafat to bin Laden/Hitler and calling American foreign policy towards Israel akin to appeasement (to the Palestinians, of course (?)). His underling spin type people must be having great fun spinning his statements into something palatable..
btw, are countries like Kuwait, Dubai and Saudi Arabia considered impoverished? As they were faaaar nicer than England when I went there... Bit cold though (damn ac)
posted by Mossy at 4:16 PM on November 7, 2001
Mossy...even cities like Dubai might not be considered so. But seriously, most Arab countries would be just as wealthy as Israel if they had better wealth distribution. Especially ones like Qatar and the UAE. Morocco and Egypt are also decently wealthy too.
posted by Kevs at 4:42 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by Kevs at 4:42 PM on November 7, 2001
MiguelCardoso, you might be suggesting that the Guardian would publish an anti-semitist article. Anti-Zionist, perhaps, given the paper's leanings, but not anti-semitist. "New Jews" is not an uncommon phrase amongst Jews and gentiles when referring to the immigration of Jews from new ethnic areas. See this and this. You cannot forget that Israel, like many Middle Eastern nations, is a religious state wherein religion and nationality are mixed.
Also, the article explicity states new "Jews", not "jews", just like one would write "Catholics", "Presbyterians" or "Buddhists".
posted by mmarcos at 4:52 PM on November 7, 2001
Also, the article explicity states new "Jews", not "jews", just like one would write "Catholics", "Presbyterians" or "Buddhists".
posted by mmarcos at 4:52 PM on November 7, 2001
Speaking of wealth, does anyone realize how wealthy Israel would be if there was peace? It would be a major world power, an integral part of everything having to do with the Middle Eastern economy and the primary conduit for energy sales and services. Historically, Jews and Arabs have been close partners in commerce throughout the Middle East. Makes you wonder who stands to benefit most from keeping the two sides apart.
posted by cell divide at 4:59 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by cell divide at 4:59 PM on November 7, 2001
Thanks mmarcos. I did mean anti-Zionist, you're quite right. Plus your links convinced me that there is probably nothing wrong with the word "new". It wasn't mentioned in the article, or by Sharon, so I guess it's only journalistic license. As for the small "j" it's a language thing - in Portuguese we don't capitalize nationalities or religions and, in my indecent haste, I slipped.
As a Jew and a Zionist myself I probably(i.e. most certainly) have a chip on my shoulder and sometimes it shows. Me, touchy? Nah...
Thanks for your kindness and also for the opportunity to humbly recant and crawl into a dark corner. :-)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:02 PM on November 7, 2001
As a Jew and a Zionist myself I probably(i.e. most certainly) have a chip on my shoulder and sometimes it shows. Me, touchy? Nah...
Thanks for your kindness and also for the opportunity to humbly recant and crawl into a dark corner. :-)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:02 PM on November 7, 2001
Yes, of course. Hey, email me and I'll give you the whole megillah, if you're interested. :-)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:01 PM on November 7, 2001
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:01 PM on November 7, 2001
Ty Webb, I would have said " A$k Pari$ Paramu$ why I$rael i$ the only country in the Midea$t which i$ not a part of the developing (impoveri$hed) world?
What are you really suggesting? That the oil-rich portions of the Muslim world have not squandered their trillions and had no interest in sharing it with the oil-poor ones? That Israel is prosperous because of minimal amounts of foreign aid?
Israel is prosperous because Jewish culture values education and a humane existence. And Israelis invent, grow and raise food in abundance, and know how to trade with the world. And Israelis aren't mired in a primitive culture and primitive, self-destructive take on religion.
So I hope Sharon can make good on his goal (although it doesn't sound terribly plauisible to me). The world, and even the sane Palestinian Arabs would benefit.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:06 PM on November 8, 2001
What are you really suggesting? That the oil-rich portions of the Muslim world have not squandered their trillions and had no interest in sharing it with the oil-poor ones? That Israel is prosperous because of minimal amounts of foreign aid?
Israel is prosperous because Jewish culture values education and a humane existence. And Israelis invent, grow and raise food in abundance, and know how to trade with the world. And Israelis aren't mired in a primitive culture and primitive, self-destructive take on religion.
So I hope Sharon can make good on his goal (although it doesn't sound terribly plauisible to me). The world, and even the sane Palestinian Arabs would benefit.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:06 PM on November 8, 2001
Wasn't Palestine prosperous anyway? That's what I get from the following statement:
"The Jews did not choose Palestine for its Torah and religious signficance with respect to them, and not becayse the waters of the Dead Sea give through evaporation approximately three billiob dollars a year of minerals and precious metals, nor becayse the oil reserves of Palestine are equivalent to twenty times the reserves of the entire Americas, but because Palestine is at the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa. Also because Palestine forms the point of concentration of all the world powers, because it is the strategic centre of controlling money."
-Nechum Goldman, President of the World Jewish League in a conference in Montreal Canada
I say, tick off as many Palestinian Arabs as possible. They deserve it
Sigh. Maybe I should take you less seriously.
posted by Saima at 11:32 AM on November 9, 2001
"The Jews did not choose Palestine for its Torah and religious signficance with respect to them, and not becayse the waters of the Dead Sea give through evaporation approximately three billiob dollars a year of minerals and precious metals, nor becayse the oil reserves of Palestine are equivalent to twenty times the reserves of the entire Americas, but because Palestine is at the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa. Also because Palestine forms the point of concentration of all the world powers, because it is the strategic centre of controlling money."
-Nechum Goldman, President of the World Jewish League in a conference in Montreal Canada
I say, tick off as many Palestinian Arabs as possible. They deserve it
Sigh. Maybe I should take you less seriously.
posted by Saima at 11:32 AM on November 9, 2001
Huh? How about spelling corrections. More importantly:
"The Jews did not choose... Palestine for its Torah and religious signficance with respect to them..
Just plain stupid. The Western Wall, and the other sacred places are just BS?
..and not because the waters of the Dead Sea give through evaporation approximately three billion dollars a year of minerals and precious metals...
Yeah, that's key! Just like the Mormons are in Utah for the Great Salt Lake?
Nor becayse the oil reserves of Palestine are equivalent to twenty times the reserves of the entire Americas
What reserves? 20 times? Huh? The only nearby reserves are now in Egypt. And they're relatively small.
...but because Palestine is at the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
Which might have had importance in the year....1600 or before.
Also because Palestine forms the point of concentration of all the world powers, because it is the strategic centre of controlling money."
W T F ?
posted by ParisParamus at 12:30 PM on November 9, 2001
"The Jews did not choose... Palestine for its Torah and religious signficance with respect to them..
Just plain stupid. The Western Wall, and the other sacred places are just BS?
..and not because the waters of the Dead Sea give through evaporation approximately three billion dollars a year of minerals and precious metals...
Yeah, that's key! Just like the Mormons are in Utah for the Great Salt Lake?
Nor becayse the oil reserves of Palestine are equivalent to twenty times the reserves of the entire Americas
What reserves? 20 times? Huh? The only nearby reserves are now in Egypt. And they're relatively small.
...but because Palestine is at the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and Africa.
Which might have had importance in the year....1600 or before.
Also because Palestine forms the point of concentration of all the world powers, because it is the strategic centre of controlling money."
W T F ?
posted by ParisParamus at 12:30 PM on November 9, 2001
I say, tick off as many Palestinian Arabs as possible. They deserve it
Look. Everything American/Western ticks of the Muslim world, from democracy to Sesame Street to alcohol to Pork Chops (ok, I don't eat pork either, but...). Everything Israeli also ticks off the Muslim world, so why not tick them off with gusto, aplomb? LET'S ROLL!
posted by ParisParamus at 1:15 PM on November 9, 2001
Look. Everything American/Western ticks of the Muslim world, from democracy to Sesame Street to alcohol to Pork Chops (ok, I don't eat pork either, but...). Everything Israeli also ticks off the Muslim world, so why not tick them off with gusto, aplomb? LET'S ROLL!
posted by ParisParamus at 1:15 PM on November 9, 2001
Everything American/Western ticks of the Muslim world, from democracy to Sesame Street
Some of them seem pretty fond of Bert....
posted by rushmc at 2:37 PM on November 9, 2001
Some of them seem pretty fond of Bert....
posted by rushmc at 2:37 PM on November 9, 2001
Grover.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:07 PM on November 9, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 3:07 PM on November 9, 2001
My fingers type y instead of u and b instead of n because they happen to be next to each other and you're nitpicking about it? How absolutely pathetic.
As for the quote, that's why I posed a question. I asked wasn't it prosperous anyway. I didn't say I necessarily agree with that guys statement since I don't know enough about the history/situation.
As for everything American/Western ticking of the Muslim world, that is a gross generalisation. In fact exactly the type I'd expect from you.
posted by Saima at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2001
As for the quote, that's why I posed a question. I asked wasn't it prosperous anyway. I didn't say I necessarily agree with that guys statement since I don't know enough about the history/situation.
As for everything American/Western ticking of the Muslim world, that is a gross generalisation. In fact exactly the type I'd expect from you.
posted by Saima at 7:54 AM on November 10, 2001
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I wonder why S. put out that announcement? to irk the Arabs? Is employment that good there--I think not.
posted by Postroad at 11:41 AM on November 7, 2001