How To Have The Best Pregnancy Ever
March 20, 2013 11:25 AM Subscribe
32 weeks here and I just had a turkey sandwich and a diet Coke. Also planning to dye my hair this weekend. Such a rebel.
Now I'm going to haul ass to Lollapalooza.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:36 AM on March 20, 2013 [9 favorites]
Now I'm going to haul ass to Lollapalooza.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:36 AM on March 20, 2013 [9 favorites]
Both times I have been pregnant I frequently remembered that episode of the Simpsons where Ned Flanders' house is destroyed, and he says "Why me, Lord? I've always been good. I don't drink or dance or swear, I've even kept kosher just to be on the safe side. I've done everything the Bible says! Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! What more can I do? I... I... I feel like I'm coming apart here! I wanna yell out, but I just can't dang-darn-diddly-darn-dang-ding-dong-diddly-darned do it!"
And then I would crack open my can of Diet Dr. Pepper, eat my deli meat turkey sandwich (waves at Kitty Stardust on preview) and make reservations for date night at our favorite sushi place.
posted by ambrosia at 11:42 AM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
And then I would crack open my can of Diet Dr. Pepper, eat my deli meat turkey sandwich (waves at Kitty Stardust on preview) and make reservations for date night at our favorite sushi place.
posted by ambrosia at 11:42 AM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
Ha! I'm 30 weeks and have spent most of this pregnancy eating too many cakes and being perplexed that 5 years ago I could have a single glass of wine but now I can't even have a sip. They told me I'd be more lax when it came to baby no. 2, and by gosh they are right. My gestational diabetes test came back fine, so back into the cakes and maybe I will accept that glass of champagne. (or not... the stares-like-daggers are worse for your health I'm sure)
posted by Raunchy 60s Humour at 11:43 AM on March 20, 2013
posted by Raunchy 60s Humour at 11:43 AM on March 20, 2013
This is sort of a heightened level of all health information propagated by the media nowadays, isn't it?
"HEY THERE!!! SUBSTANCE X WILL CAUSE YOUR DEATH! SUBSTANCE Y WILL GIVE YOU A FIRM EXTERIOR AND SHINY SURFACE! UNLESS IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND! BETTER BUY BOTH! AND NOW THE WEATHER!"
posted by selfnoise at 11:49 AM on March 20, 2013 [8 favorites]
"HEY THERE!!! SUBSTANCE X WILL CAUSE YOUR DEATH! SUBSTANCE Y WILL GIVE YOU A FIRM EXTERIOR AND SHINY SURFACE! UNLESS IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND! BETTER BUY BOTH! AND NOW THE WEATHER!"
posted by selfnoise at 11:49 AM on March 20, 2013 [8 favorites]
Single-use plastic water bottles are made of PET (basically polyester) and do not contain BPA. Mark it off your list of things to worry about.
posted by purpleclover at 11:50 AM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by purpleclover at 11:50 AM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't have the data readily available, but my fiancee is a Midwifery student, and she has reported to me that the current research shows that there is no safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant.
The link in the link to the NPR article says that a couple of drinks isn't linked to developmental issues. Jezebel says that this means its safe to have a couple of drinks while pregnant. What the study didn't measure, of course, is the developmental issues of miscarriages due to alcohol.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:52 AM on March 20, 2013
The link in the link to the NPR article says that a couple of drinks isn't linked to developmental issues. Jezebel says that this means its safe to have a couple of drinks while pregnant. What the study didn't measure, of course, is the developmental issues of miscarriages due to alcohol.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:52 AM on March 20, 2013
So I shouldn't be using thalidomide as a dessert topping?
posted by dr_dank at 11:55 AM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 11:55 AM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
So I shouldn't be using thalidomide as a dessert topping?
I thought it was a floor wax.
posted by The Bellman at 11:58 AM on March 20, 2013 [10 favorites]
I thought it was a floor wax.
posted by The Bellman at 11:58 AM on March 20, 2013 [10 favorites]
This is sort of a heightened level of all health information propagated by the media nowadays, isn't it?
Actually, I think it's much more a reflection of how society has made pregnant women public property. Total strangers think it's ok to walk up and touch a stranger's belly, comment on the size of her belly, whether it is high or low, ask her how much weight she has gained, what have you. And it's just the beginning, because women with little babies get all kinds of unsolicited "advice" from strangers.
What.The.Fuckity.Fuck. Pregnancy does not grant people a license to intrude.
posted by ambrosia at 12:02 PM on March 20, 2013 [22 favorites]
Actually, I think it's much more a reflection of how society has made pregnant women public property. Total strangers think it's ok to walk up and touch a stranger's belly, comment on the size of her belly, whether it is high or low, ask her how much weight she has gained, what have you. And it's just the beginning, because women with little babies get all kinds of unsolicited "advice" from strangers.
What.The.Fuckity.Fuck. Pregnancy does not grant people a license to intrude.
posted by ambrosia at 12:02 PM on March 20, 2013 [22 favorites]
Around here they're very anti-drinking any amount while pregnant, which seems a little ridiculous. But considering the higher than usual incidences of FASD...
On an editorial note, does Jezebel usually use terms like "unborn baby"?
posted by ODiV at 12:05 PM on March 20, 2013
On an editorial note, does Jezebel usually use terms like "unborn baby"?
posted by ODiV at 12:05 PM on March 20, 2013
I was really not looking forward to being pregnant in public exactly for the reasons Ambrosia mentioned above, but I've found that wearing a stretched-out Skinny Puppy t-shirt, a scowl and headphones while out in public pretty much deters any belly-touchers and advice-giving-randos quite nicely. Any anyone who asks how much weight I've gained, I just tell "I have no idea, my doctor isn't really concerned about it."
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:09 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:09 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
the current research shows that there is no safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant.
There is no research that has attempted to determine the safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant. How would you even design that study?
posted by KathrynT at 12:10 PM on March 20, 2013 [26 favorites]
There is no research that has attempted to determine the safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant. How would you even design that study?
posted by KathrynT at 12:10 PM on March 20, 2013 [26 favorites]
I don't have the data readily available, but my fiancee is a Midwifery student, and she has reported to me that the current research shows that there is no safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant.
These data are contested, and highly culturally specific. European OBs don't tend to take it seriously, for instance.
posted by OmieWise at 12:11 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
These data are contested, and highly culturally specific. European OBs don't tend to take it seriously, for instance.
posted by OmieWise at 12:11 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
I always have to remember the cultural norms of where I'm from and where I live. I confess to being shocked when a pregnant co-worker of my partner's had a small glass of wine (only one!) at a summer office do. Then I remembered, "Ah, the French. They are not like me."
:)
posted by Kitteh at 12:13 PM on March 20, 2013
:)
posted by Kitteh at 12:13 PM on March 20, 2013
KathrynT: There is no research that has attempted to determine the safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant. How would you even design that study?By sampling a population that is voluntarily drinking, and then tracking them. There are LOADS of single moms out there that would be willing to give a breathalyzer or even a blood test for a payment. Self-reporting backed up by chemical sampling can be extrapolated into a reasonable estimate of total alcohol consumed.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:15 PM on March 20, 2013
The British National Institute of Clinical Excellence is an expert panel that advises on NHS policy. Its recommendations pertaining to diet:
Essentially, folic acid and Vitamin D supplements are a good idea - in the cloudy UK, anyway, if you live in Texas you might get enough sun, but if you are not white you might need more.
Otherwise it's the same advice as ever: eat a diet rich in fruit and vegetables. Oily fish once a week.
We just had our first child, so one particular anecdote: we didn't get the Vitamin D advice until after the key bit for development because the midwife was too busy spending her time incorrectly lecturing us on alcohol consumption.
Fashions change. Eat healthily. Take folic acid, probably Vitamin D. You don't otherwise have that much control, for good or for ill.
posted by alasdair at 12:16 PM on March 20, 2013
Otherwise it's the same advice as ever: eat a diet rich in fruit and vegetables. Oily fish once a week.
We just had our first child, so one particular anecdote: we didn't get the Vitamin D advice until after the key bit for development because the midwife was too busy spending her time incorrectly lecturing us on alcohol consumption.
Fashions change. Eat healthily. Take folic acid, probably Vitamin D. You don't otherwise have that much control, for good or for ill.
posted by alasdair at 12:16 PM on March 20, 2013
Just to follow up, in Britian, the Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynecology says that there is no evidence of harm from one or two drinks once or twice a week while pregnant.
Women should be advised that if they choose to drink alcohol while they are pregnant they should drink no more than 1- 2 UK units once or twice a week.
There is uncertainty about how much alcohol is safe to drink in pregnancy, but at
this low level there is no evidence of any harm to their unborn baby.
posted by OmieWise at 12:20 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
Women should be advised that if they choose to drink alcohol while they are pregnant they should drink no more than 1- 2 UK units once or twice a week.
There is uncertainty about how much alcohol is safe to drink in pregnancy, but at
this low level there is no evidence of any harm to their unborn baby.
posted by OmieWise at 12:20 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
Pre-pregnancy: men sneaking glances at my chest while talking to me.
Pregnancy: women sneaking glances at my belly while talking to me.
And I'm only half done with this gestating business. I have a hard enough time biting back remarks when I'm not pumped full of pregnancy hormones. Yesterday, a co-worker looked at my belly about 5 times in a 2 minute span while I was talking to her about work stuff. And then she commented on my pregnant belly.
She's making comments about MY body changes so I get to make comments about HERS, right?
The answer is NO, Jill. No. Just, just no.
The CDC did research in Denmark and said "A Few Drinks While Pregnant May Be OK" - from 2012. MPR/NPR's article:
posted by jillithd at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2013
Pregnancy: women sneaking glances at my belly while talking to me.
And I'm only half done with this gestating business. I have a hard enough time biting back remarks when I'm not pumped full of pregnancy hormones. Yesterday, a co-worker looked at my belly about 5 times in a 2 minute span while I was talking to her about work stuff. And then she commented on my pregnant belly.
She's making comments about MY body changes so I get to make comments about HERS, right?
The answer is NO, Jill. No. Just, just no.
The CDC did research in Denmark and said "A Few Drinks While Pregnant May Be OK" - from 2012. MPR/NPR's article:
Research funded by the CDC and conducted in Denmark ... suggest that light drinking (one to four drinks a week) and even moderate imbibing (five to eight drinks) may be OK. Even occasional binge drinking (five or more drinks in a single session) didn't appear to be tied to developmental issues.The article then quotes from the research document:
"We found no significant association of low to moderate average weekly alcohol consumption, and any binge drinking, during early to mid pregnancy with the neurodevelopment of children at the age of 5 years."I thankfully have not had the overzealous advice giver or belly hugger. Yet. There's still time.
posted by jillithd at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2013
IAmBroom: There are LOADS of single moms out there that would be willing to give a breathalyzer or even a blood test for a payment.
Try again without the shitty swipe toward single moms?
posted by purpleclover at 12:36 PM on March 20, 2013 [18 favorites]
Try again without the shitty swipe toward single moms?
posted by purpleclover at 12:36 PM on March 20, 2013 [18 favorites]
My wife saw a perinatologist and her OB while she was pregnant. Both sometimes gave conflicting advice, and the OB's practice didn't ever communicate with the perinatologist unless we insisted. It was maddening. One would prescribe medication and we'd always have to confirm it with the other.
At 12 weeks, one of her OBs kicked up a fuss over the perinatologist prescribing Lovenox injections. Then at 30 weeks, another OB in the practice had a total fit that the perinatologist had prescribed a particular medication (indomethicine,) to slow pre-term labor and told us we would have to drop the perinatologist or find another practice. It got resolved. (There's a possibility I may have mentioned that I knew some nasty lawyers.)
Even doctors with decades of experience don't always agree with each other on courses of treatment during pregnancy. Study results and their respective experiences will sometimes conflict. It's no wonder there are many mixed signals out there about what's bad or good.
posted by zarq at 12:41 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
At 12 weeks, one of her OBs kicked up a fuss over the perinatologist prescribing Lovenox injections. Then at 30 weeks, another OB in the practice had a total fit that the perinatologist had prescribed a particular medication (indomethicine,) to slow pre-term labor and told us we would have to drop the perinatologist or find another practice. It got resolved. (There's a possibility I may have mentioned that I knew some nasty lawyers.)
Even doctors with decades of experience don't always agree with each other on courses of treatment during pregnancy. Study results and their respective experiences will sometimes conflict. It's no wonder there are many mixed signals out there about what's bad or good.
posted by zarq at 12:41 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Haha, my mother-in-law FLIPPED OUT over the slippery/thermal receipt one, she was like crying about it when she found out I sometimes touched receipts.
I made myself a list of banned foods from various pregnancy books and magazines because I was bored and couldn't eat anything anyway, and it included basically everything except white rice (brown rice had arsenic or something). (In the end, when food and I were friends again, I avoided just undercooked meats and unpasteurized cheeses, which I was later really glad about because there was a listeria outbreak from unpasteurized cheese in my state that did cause several miscarriages.)
Jezebel left off "Don't receive oral sex while pregnant in case your partner blows air into your vagina, the distended veins on your cervix lets it into your bloodstream, and you die of an air embolism." (Last paragraph.) After getting this warning, I asked my ob, "But isn't that the sort of thing you could die of anyway if you happened to have a partner who was terrible at oral sex AND really bad luck with embolisms?" and he said, "Well, technically, yes, it's just slightly more likely during pregnancy." CONSIDER YOURSELVES WARNED!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:53 PM on March 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
I made myself a list of banned foods from various pregnancy books and magazines because I was bored and couldn't eat anything anyway, and it included basically everything except white rice (brown rice had arsenic or something). (In the end, when food and I were friends again, I avoided just undercooked meats and unpasteurized cheeses, which I was later really glad about because there was a listeria outbreak from unpasteurized cheese in my state that did cause several miscarriages.)
Jezebel left off "Don't receive oral sex while pregnant in case your partner blows air into your vagina, the distended veins on your cervix lets it into your bloodstream, and you die of an air embolism." (Last paragraph.) After getting this warning, I asked my ob, "But isn't that the sort of thing you could die of anyway if you happened to have a partner who was terrible at oral sex AND really bad luck with embolisms?" and he said, "Well, technically, yes, it's just slightly more likely during pregnancy." CONSIDER YOURSELVES WARNED!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:53 PM on March 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
Fuck it, I'm pregnant again and this time I'm not foregoing sushi!
posted by Omnomnom at 12:57 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Omnomnom at 12:57 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Current research shows that other people's bodies and what they choose to put in them are none of my goddamned business even if those people happen to be Fetus Containers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:03 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:03 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
And then once you've had the best pregnancy ever, you can read this article to find out How To Be a Perfect Parent in 5 Easy Steps... or Probably Never. Scroll down to the table entitled "Proof that you're fucking up your offspring no matter what" -- it's gold!
posted by peacheater at 1:13 PM on March 20, 2013
posted by peacheater at 1:13 PM on March 20, 2013
Perhaps this is all anecdata, but I've noticed women are way more judgmental about pregnancy than men are. The (all female) nurses at my OB's practice are pretty eager to give me frowny faces if my blood pressure is even a little high. One of them semi-scolded me for my Gestational Diabetes test results, even though I passed. When I asked the Doctor (male) about it, he said it was fine and I didn't need to worry. Maybe this is just part of having been there themselves for a lot of women. It's easier to be harsh on other women because you've had to run the judgement gauntlet too? Bleh, I don't care for it at all.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2013
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2013
Here in Italy, the nosy Parkers were astounded that I ate strawberries, spicy food and cooked seafood during my pregnancy, siting respectively "birthmarks", "bad for baby" and "my sister told me so" (this last from a male friend. Oy vey)
And I got even more crap once Peanut was born and, excepting alcohol, I resumed my normal diet while breastfeeding; apparently the prevailing wisdom here is to continue your excessively restrictive pregnancy diet until you stop breastfeeding.
I've gotten pretty good at keeping my polite poker face on as I tell them there's no scientific fact to whatever bullshit wives' tale is being wagged at me, instead of laughing in their faces while saying " Fuck that noise."
posted by romakimmy at 1:29 PM on March 20, 2013
And I got even more crap once Peanut was born and, excepting alcohol, I resumed my normal diet while breastfeeding; apparently the prevailing wisdom here is to continue your excessively restrictive pregnancy diet until you stop breastfeeding.
I've gotten pretty good at keeping my polite poker face on as I tell them there's no scientific fact to whatever bullshit wives' tale is being wagged at me, instead of laughing in their faces while saying " Fuck that noise."
posted by romakimmy at 1:29 PM on March 20, 2013
Oh, oh. Just try being a vegetarian while pregnant. (Or being pregnant while vegetarian. However you'd rather put it.)
In my whole life, I've never had so many people try to forcefeed me bacon. (None of those people, incidentally, were doctors. The doctors I saw thought me being a vegetarian was great. They were all like, "Oh, good, now we don't have to tell you not to eat sushi." Because, you know, I'm sure all the women in Japan totally avoid sushi while pregnant. Right.)
posted by BlueJae at 1:33 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
In my whole life, I've never had so many people try to forcefeed me bacon. (None of those people, incidentally, were doctors. The doctors I saw thought me being a vegetarian was great. They were all like, "Oh, good, now we don't have to tell you not to eat sushi." Because, you know, I'm sure all the women in Japan totally avoid sushi while pregnant. Right.)
posted by BlueJae at 1:33 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Actually, doctors in Japan recommend sushi. I assume they're not so worried about contaminated fish.
Here, they are telling me not to eat ice cream. ICE CREAM.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:35 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Here, they are telling me not to eat ice cream. ICE CREAM.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:35 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Wow, Omnomnom. I am pretty sure telling a pregnant woman not to eat ice cream is in fact some sort of crime against humanity.
posted by BlueJae at 1:39 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by BlueJae at 1:39 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Bacon? Why is bacon particularly good for pregnant women?
posted by jeather at 1:39 PM on March 20, 2013
posted by jeather at 1:39 PM on March 20, 2013
35 weeks on Friday, and I can relay this exchange from a party when I was 25 weeks and enjoying a very, very, very watered down Campari and soda (which I nursed over three hours):
My rebel foods have been raw milk (I admit I keep a Google alert on the dairy in question in case a recall should strike) and raw/rare meat (tartar, eggs, sushi, steak), though always from reliable sources. I have been alternately told I can't get massages (I can, I do) and pedicures (ditto), and the midwife keeps asking if I'm "keeping a record of the kicks", which I would totally do if Baby Offalark WOULD STOP KICKING FOR JUST ONE SECOND.
Not that I am complaining. I would much rather have Ms. Kicky McKicksalot than constantly questioning the status of my fetus.
For me, this post by Megnut really put stuff into perspective i.e., food and pregnancy.
posted by offalark at 1:40 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
- Male friend: "OMG are you drinking?"
Me: "Yes. But not fast. It's just for the flavor. Have no fear."
Male friend: "BOOOO." (reaches into coat, takes out a cigar) "Want to smoke?"
Me: (stare)
Male friend: "You don't inhale cigars!"
Me: (sips Campari, slowly shakes head)
My rebel foods have been raw milk (I admit I keep a Google alert on the dairy in question in case a recall should strike) and raw/rare meat (tartar, eggs, sushi, steak), though always from reliable sources. I have been alternately told I can't get massages (I can, I do) and pedicures (ditto), and the midwife keeps asking if I'm "keeping a record of the kicks", which I would totally do if Baby Offalark WOULD STOP KICKING FOR JUST ONE SECOND.
Not that I am complaining. I would much rather have Ms. Kicky McKicksalot than constantly questioning the status of my fetus.
For me, this post by Megnut really put stuff into perspective i.e., food and pregnancy.
posted by offalark at 1:40 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
The best part about all of this judgment is that just when you think it's going to be over, it isn't!
posted by ODiV at 1:43 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 1:43 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
purpleclover: IAmBroom: There are LOADS of single moms out there that would be willing to give a breathalyzer or even a blood test for a payment.OK: there's lots of poor moms (single or otherwise) who would be willing to make money that way.
Try again without the shitty swipe toward single moms?
Can't remove moms from the equation, but single moms skew towards poverty rather strongly. It wasn't a swipe; there was no intent to malign.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:48 PM on March 20, 2013
Oh! I get it now. Y'all thought I was saying "single moms are more likely to drink". Never occurred to me, as I'm pretty sure both social drinking and alcoholism cut fairly evenly across social strata (IOW, I think there's no correlation at all). I was just considering that most participants in medical studies that are intrusive and pay tend to draw a low-income pool of volunteers.
Badly worded; I apologize.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:02 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Badly worded; I apologize.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:02 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Back in the day, my wife's copy of What to Expect While You Are Expecting warned her not to eat at "ethnic" restaurants while pregnant. We worried about all those poor people in "ethnic" countries who don't have access to good, honest American food.
posted by Area Man at 2:09 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Area Man at 2:09 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Bellman: "So I shouldn't be using thalidomide as a dessert topping?
I thought it was a floor wax."
Best part is, not only it both, but it slices, dices, and cuts tomatoes so thin, your mother in law will NEVER come back!
And, if you call in the next 15 minutes...
posted by Samizdata at 2:19 PM on March 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
I thought it was a floor wax."
Best part is, not only it both, but it slices, dices, and cuts tomatoes so thin, your mother in law will NEVER come back!
And, if you call in the next 15 minutes...
posted by Samizdata at 2:19 PM on March 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
IAmBroom: you couldn't get that study past IRB. Are you going to just sit back and nod when a woman self-reports drinking a bottle of vodka a day while pregnant? If you do, you're withholding important information from her about how her drinking could affect her baby, which is a giant ethical no-no. If you don't, you're compromising your data.
Then there's the question of actually collecting the data. Relying on self-reporting for something like this is not likely to get good data for you, and given how fast alcohol metabolizes in the body, the only way you could get decent objective data is to breathalyze or blood-test the women multiple times a day, every day for the entire pregnancy. Blood draws you would have to do in person, and I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are NOT going to find a ton of women of any marital status or income level who will let you draw their blood even once a day, never mind four to six times per day -- even if you could get an IRB to sign off on that much blood loss for a pregnant woman, which you couldn't. Breathalyzing would be less invasive, but again would have to be done in person if the data was going to be even remotely accurate, and also four to six times a day at an absolute minimum.
So, let me ask you again: how would you design that study?
posted by KathrynT at 2:20 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Then there's the question of actually collecting the data. Relying on self-reporting for something like this is not likely to get good data for you, and given how fast alcohol metabolizes in the body, the only way you could get decent objective data is to breathalyze or blood-test the women multiple times a day, every day for the entire pregnancy. Blood draws you would have to do in person, and I'm gonna go ahead and say that you are NOT going to find a ton of women of any marital status or income level who will let you draw their blood even once a day, never mind four to six times per day -- even if you could get an IRB to sign off on that much blood loss for a pregnant woman, which you couldn't. Breathalyzing would be less invasive, but again would have to be done in person if the data was going to be even remotely accurate, and also four to six times a day at an absolute minimum.
So, let me ask you again: how would you design that study?
posted by KathrynT at 2:20 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Kitty Stardust: "I was really not looking forward to being pregnant in public exactly for the reasons Ambrosia mentioned above, but I've found that wearing a stretched-out Skinny Puppy t-shirt, a scowl and headphones while out in public pretty much deters any belly-touchers and advice-giving-randos quite nicely. Any anyone who asks how much weight I've gained, I just tell "I have no idea, my doctor isn't really concerned about it.""
Well, if I were you, I would be worried about your apparel leading to the chance of pre-natal ogreism.
posted by Samizdata at 2:21 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Well, if I were you, I would be worried about your apparel leading to the chance of pre-natal ogreism.
posted by Samizdata at 2:21 PM on March 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
"Proof that you're fucking up your offspring no matter what"
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
posted by Daily Alice at 2:31 PM on March 20, 2013
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.
posted by Daily Alice at 2:31 PM on March 20, 2013
what a great list of contradicting advice!
however, fetal alcohol exposure is one area where caution is due: we have strong, terrible evidence from alcoholic mothers-to-be of the large variety of alcohol related developmental changes. we know that the specific age of the developing fetus at the time of exposure influences where alcohol interferes with development---we just dont know how it does it. one particular growth modulator is called sonichedghog, and it shows up in many different development pathways at various times.
sonichedgehog has chemical/structural properties that cause it to diffuse in a way that creates a concentration gradient. this provides a roadmap of sorts (or at least a direction and a location coordinate) for developing cells that have already differentiated into their respective organ tissue. in the lab, modifications in this gene/protein are responsible for lots of funny looking mice/flies/zebrafish. sonichedgehog is not expressed in the rear part of the cetaceans which is why they dont have rear legs like all the other mammals---and sonichedgehog is of course important in brain development. it binds to cholesterol in its normal role, but this is interfered with by alcohol, so we have a possible smoking gun for FASD's varied outcomes. (http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17237799 )
the idea is: we wont have a "safe level of exposure" until we actually know which mechanism is causing the developmental changes, then we can do epidemiology "in the wild" and come up with a "no measurable effect" number of drinks per day/week. a bunch of people saying their "kids turned out fine" is different because we dont know where to look in their brains to quantitatively confirm what their parents claim.
but until then all we have are various possible mechanisms and no real scientific consensus (though, most scientists i know teetotal during pregnancy).
posted by dongolier at 3:12 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
however, fetal alcohol exposure is one area where caution is due: we have strong, terrible evidence from alcoholic mothers-to-be of the large variety of alcohol related developmental changes. we know that the specific age of the developing fetus at the time of exposure influences where alcohol interferes with development---we just dont know how it does it. one particular growth modulator is called sonichedghog, and it shows up in many different development pathways at various times.
sonichedgehog has chemical/structural properties that cause it to diffuse in a way that creates a concentration gradient. this provides a roadmap of sorts (or at least a direction and a location coordinate) for developing cells that have already differentiated into their respective organ tissue. in the lab, modifications in this gene/protein are responsible for lots of funny looking mice/flies/zebrafish. sonichedgehog is not expressed in the rear part of the cetaceans which is why they dont have rear legs like all the other mammals---and sonichedgehog is of course important in brain development. it binds to cholesterol in its normal role, but this is interfered with by alcohol, so we have a possible smoking gun for FASD's varied outcomes. (http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17237799 )
the idea is: we wont have a "safe level of exposure" until we actually know which mechanism is causing the developmental changes, then we can do epidemiology "in the wild" and come up with a "no measurable effect" number of drinks per day/week. a bunch of people saying their "kids turned out fine" is different because we dont know where to look in their brains to quantitatively confirm what their parents claim.
but until then all we have are various possible mechanisms and no real scientific consensus (though, most scientists i know teetotal during pregnancy).
posted by dongolier at 3:12 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
God, the pregnancy police.
I was pretty fortunate in one respect - when I was a single pregnant teenager, strangers mostly couldn't stop gawping long enough to actually say whatever judgy thing was passing through their empty heads.
After I had the baby, of course, I would regularly get lectured about how I was too young to be babysitting. Yeah, about that...
posted by Space Kitty at 3:14 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was pretty fortunate in one respect - when I was a single pregnant teenager, strangers mostly couldn't stop gawping long enough to actually say whatever judgy thing was passing through their empty heads.
After I had the baby, of course, I would regularly get lectured about how I was too young to be babysitting. Yeah, about that...
posted by Space Kitty at 3:14 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
also:
Of all the substances of abuse, including heroin, cocaine, and marijuana, alcohol produces by far the most serious neurobehavioral effects in the fetus. ......
Although reports from the mid 1980s suggested that the use of cocaine during pregnancy increased the risk of genitourinary tract malformations, abruptio placenta, intrauterine growth retardation, sudden infant death syndrome as well as a number of postnatal neurobehavioral deficits, subsequent reports largely failed to replicate these initial observations
posted by dongolier at 3:21 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of all the substances of abuse, including heroin, cocaine, and marijuana, alcohol produces by far the most serious neurobehavioral effects in the fetus. ......
Although reports from the mid 1980s suggested that the use of cocaine during pregnancy increased the risk of genitourinary tract malformations, abruptio placenta, intrauterine growth retardation, sudden infant death syndrome as well as a number of postnatal neurobehavioral deficits, subsequent reports largely failed to replicate these initial observations
posted by dongolier at 3:21 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would be awesome if everyone earnestly supplying information about FAS would shut up.
posted by bq at 3:32 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by bq at 3:32 PM on March 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
The problem with that information donglier, is that it comes from alcoholic mothers (generally more than 7 or 10 units of alcohol per week). And that the rates of FAS an alcoholism aren't even that well correlated on a population level. So telling a mother that one Campari and soda will give her child a similar result to that of an alcoholic is quite obviously false.
Populations with high FAS levels have high levels of alcoholism AND high levels of other substance abuse and poor levels of nutrition. At a population level. As KathrynT noted, you can't get permission to follow individuals.
I did read one study (sorry no reference, not at school) that surveyed women about their drinking habits before and while pregnant. The strongest link was between drinking before and during pregnancy, i.e. not many women took up drinking while pregnant. They also found that more than half of the women surveyed drank during pregnancy, mostly during the first trimester. The biggest thing for me was they had all this information on drinking but nothing on how the pregnancies or babies turned out. You really can't do those sorts of correlational studies on people.
Anyway, my take away reading a bunch of primary literature for my friend who was feeling guilty for having a beer before she knew she was pregnant, was that there was very little information for how certain everyone sounded.
posted by hydrobatidae at 5:54 PM on March 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Populations with high FAS levels have high levels of alcoholism AND high levels of other substance abuse and poor levels of nutrition. At a population level. As KathrynT noted, you can't get permission to follow individuals.
I did read one study (sorry no reference, not at school) that surveyed women about their drinking habits before and while pregnant. The strongest link was between drinking before and during pregnancy, i.e. not many women took up drinking while pregnant. They also found that more than half of the women surveyed drank during pregnancy, mostly during the first trimester. The biggest thing for me was they had all this information on drinking but nothing on how the pregnancies or babies turned out. You really can't do those sorts of correlational studies on people.
Anyway, my take away reading a bunch of primary literature for my friend who was feeling guilty for having a beer before she knew she was pregnant, was that there was very little information for how certain everyone sounded.
posted by hydrobatidae at 5:54 PM on March 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
This looked pretty good when I saw it a few months ago: The Biodeterminist's Guide to Parenting.
posted by astrofinch at 6:25 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by astrofinch at 6:25 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've been following the Kitty Stardust dressing-like-a-threat-to-society school of maternity wardrobe and have likewise had next to no advice dropped on me from random strangers. Even at six months, I don't really look terribly pregnant, just kind of fat. It only really shows when I'm moving around (preggo waddle), and the net result of that so far seems to be that little old ladies make sure to shove me onto buses ahead of them. Seriously, I had someone's nonna pretty much pick me up and carry me on last week, and she'd have been all of five foot nothing.
I've also been lucky in that not a soul has said anything about my vegetariansim. Probably because I eat a more varied and nutritious diet, even now, than most of my family do as a general rule. I also had the same reaction from my doctors that BlueJae did:
Midwife: Now avoid seafood, especially predatory fish, deli meats, especially things like chicken and pork salads...
Jilder: Oh, don't worry, I'm a vegetarian.
Midwife: Thank heavens. You guys are hard to poison.
I am glad I skipped the soft cheeses though - my favourite brand issued a listeria recall recently, so I was totally in the risk pool for that one.
The slippery receipts thing is new, and a tad worrying as I worked in retail throughout the first two trimesters and our receipt printer is one of those thermals. But hey, I'm fucked anyway as my babydaddy is a physicist with a side order of mathematician currently working in computer science, and we aren't even a little bit married! Hah!
posted by Jilder at 7:40 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've also been lucky in that not a soul has said anything about my vegetariansim. Probably because I eat a more varied and nutritious diet, even now, than most of my family do as a general rule. I also had the same reaction from my doctors that BlueJae did:
Midwife: Now avoid seafood, especially predatory fish, deli meats, especially things like chicken and pork salads...
Jilder: Oh, don't worry, I'm a vegetarian.
Midwife: Thank heavens. You guys are hard to poison.
I am glad I skipped the soft cheeses though - my favourite brand issued a listeria recall recently, so I was totally in the risk pool for that one.
The slippery receipts thing is new, and a tad worrying as I worked in retail throughout the first two trimesters and our receipt printer is one of those thermals. But hey, I'm fucked anyway as my babydaddy is a physicist with a side order of mathematician currently working in computer science, and we aren't even a little bit married! Hah!
posted by Jilder at 7:40 PM on March 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Wait. Sonichedgehog? Sonic hedgehog? For reals? Who is naming this BS?
posted by amanda at 8:08 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 8:08 PM on March 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
For the record, I drank small amounts during pregnancy. Had a little coffee everyday. Ate some sushi. And attended a massive cheese conference/festival which culminated in a huge tasting of cheeses. I started with the soft cheeses and worked my way up. Cheese is actually not the most common carrier of listeria in the U.S. and you can find listeria on any food that hasn't been handled properly. There are isolated cases and most of them have been linked to soft cheeses made outside of a facility and sold roadside in Mexico. But cantaloupe was linked to some listeria deaths and one possible miscarriage in Ohio. Recalls and listeria happens and everyone needs to find their own line.
I have to say, I was very disappointed when I saved a fancy bottle of wine for a girls weekend near the end of my pregnancy and had huge plans to enjoy one normal-sized glass of it during our poker game. I had that glass and was not even a little bit buzzed due, I think, to all the extra blood I had pumping in my body. True fact, your blood volume can increase by 50% during pregnancy. So, I was all, "ha! I'm super pregnant lady and can drink you all under the table!" But, I didn't and I won $20. Mostly, I found my first love, beer, to be pretty unpalatable -- I could smell too many of the separate ingredients. Pregnancy is a trip, I tell you.
posted by amanda at 8:21 PM on March 20, 2013
I have to say, I was very disappointed when I saved a fancy bottle of wine for a girls weekend near the end of my pregnancy and had huge plans to enjoy one normal-sized glass of it during our poker game. I had that glass and was not even a little bit buzzed due, I think, to all the extra blood I had pumping in my body. True fact, your blood volume can increase by 50% during pregnancy. So, I was all, "ha! I'm super pregnant lady and can drink you all under the table!" But, I didn't and I won $20. Mostly, I found my first love, beer, to be pretty unpalatable -- I could smell too many of the separate ingredients. Pregnancy is a trip, I tell you.
posted by amanda at 8:21 PM on March 20, 2013
There is no research that has attempted to determine the safe level of alcohol for women to consume while pregnant. How would you even design that study?
Sponsorship deal with Jacobs' Creek then open up the big book of social science methodologies.
posted by biffa at 3:18 AM on March 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sponsorship deal with Jacobs' Creek then open up the big book of social science methodologies.
posted by biffa at 3:18 AM on March 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
kathrynT: "IAmBroom: you couldn't get that study past IRB. Are you going to just sit back and nod when a woman self-reports drinking a bottle of vodka a day while pregnant? If you do, you're withholding important information from her about how her drinking could affect her baby, which is a giant ethical no-no. If you don't, you're compromising your data. ... So, let me ask you again: how would you design that study?"
1. The point of the study proposed (that I was replying to) was to determine safe levels, not toxic levels - so we're clearly interested in women who have a couple drinks a week, not a bottle of vodka a day.
2. Other countries (as mentioned above by others) don't have the same stigma attached to pregnant women occasionally drinking lightly. There's no reason for their self-reporting to be heavily biased.
3. You do know that countries other than the US conduct medical research, right?
posted by IAmBroom at 3:21 AM on March 21, 2013
1. The point of the study proposed (that I was replying to) was to determine safe levels, not toxic levels - so we're clearly interested in women who have a couple drinks a week, not a bottle of vodka a day.
2. Other countries (as mentioned above by others) don't have the same stigma attached to pregnant women occasionally drinking lightly. There's no reason for their self-reporting to be heavily biased.
3. You do know that countries other than the US conduct medical research, right?
posted by IAmBroom at 3:21 AM on March 21, 2013
So the take home message seems to be either 1. Everything is harmful, don't touch anything! or 2. *Everything* can't possibly be harmful, therefore everything must be ok.
This, right here, is the consequence of science illiteracy, and the failure of science journalism.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:47 AM on March 21, 2013
This, right here, is the consequence of science illiteracy, and the failure of science journalism.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:47 AM on March 21, 2013
bq: It would be awesome if everyone earnestly supplying information about FAS would shut up.
is that your scientific or personal opinion?
to the contrary: "no alcohol for expecting moms" is one of the classic patriarchal platitudes of pregnancy. if the source of the policy is credible then any drinking is reckless; but otherwise its simply so much Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt sold as a modern day wives tale---outside of a scientific censensus, credibility becomes a personal decision.
a Nov 2012 article from the UK, 4167 white-European kids followed from conception to age 8. the authors found that four gene variants predisposed unborn children of moderate-drinking moms to lower IQs at 8yrs when compared with unborn children in the cohort carried by abstaining moms. moderate drinking was 1-6 drinks/week, higher amounts were excluded from the study (probably for ethical reasons). the gene variants involved were single-nucleotide polymorphisms of alcohol dehydrognase: these phenotypes have different rates of alcohol metabolism as well as different levels of acetylaldehyde, the first metabolite of alcohol and a chemical that is about ten times as toxic (LD50) as alcohol itself.
the full article probably should have been linked in the OP, it would fit nicely in the authors style: "five drinks a week are okay, however one to six drinks a week are not okay as it can lower the baby's IQ" (instead of the one the author provides which is Murdoch Blocked)
posted by dongolier at 7:37 AM on March 21, 2013
is that your scientific or personal opinion?
to the contrary: "no alcohol for expecting moms" is one of the classic patriarchal platitudes of pregnancy. if the source of the policy is credible then any drinking is reckless; but otherwise its simply so much Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt sold as a modern day wives tale---outside of a scientific censensus, credibility becomes a personal decision.
a Nov 2012 article from the UK, 4167 white-European kids followed from conception to age 8. the authors found that four gene variants predisposed unborn children of moderate-drinking moms to lower IQs at 8yrs when compared with unborn children in the cohort carried by abstaining moms. moderate drinking was 1-6 drinks/week, higher amounts were excluded from the study (probably for ethical reasons). the gene variants involved were single-nucleotide polymorphisms of alcohol dehydrognase: these phenotypes have different rates of alcohol metabolism as well as different levels of acetylaldehyde, the first metabolite of alcohol and a chemical that is about ten times as toxic (LD50) as alcohol itself.
the full article probably should have been linked in the OP, it would fit nicely in the authors style: "five drinks a week are okay, however one to six drinks a week are not okay as it can lower the baby's IQ" (instead of the one the author provides which is Murdoch Blocked)
posted by dongolier at 7:37 AM on March 21, 2013
to the contrary: "no alcohol for expecting moms" is one of the classic patriarchal platitudes of pregnancy. if the source of the policy is credible then any drinking is reckless; but otherwise its simply so much Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt sold as a modern day wives tale---outside of a scientific censensus, credibility becomes a personal decision.
Got to agree with this. It wasn't long ago (like 100 years or so) that having anything to drink meant either something fermented or you got the dysentery. We (humanity) have been drinking alcoholic beverages for something like 10000+ years. If a drop or two of alcohol caused serious problems with pregnancy than the species would be long extinct.
posted by bartonlong at 11:52 AM on March 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Got to agree with this. It wasn't long ago (like 100 years or so) that having anything to drink meant either something fermented or you got the dysentery. We (humanity) have been drinking alcoholic beverages for something like 10000+ years. If a drop or two of alcohol caused serious problems with pregnancy than the species would be long extinct.
posted by bartonlong at 11:52 AM on March 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ha, Amanda, I had the same problem about with beer grossing me out in my first trimester. In fact, it was one of my first indications that I had gotten pregnant again after my miscarriage - and it was September, so I couldn't handle the smell of any of my favorite lovely pumpkin and autumn ales. I'm never in the mood for a full beer anymore, which is sad, but I'll have my husband pour me a tasting glass (so four ounces?) of what he's drinking if it smells good.
I'm six months pregnant and my coworkers like to tell me how small I am. I'm measuring exactly on track, I'm 5'1, and my doctors are fine with how things are progressing. My old-biddy coworkers want me to eat more.
posted by SeedStitch at 11:00 AM on March 22, 2013
I'm six months pregnant and my coworkers like to tell me how small I am. I'm measuring exactly on track, I'm 5'1, and my doctors are fine with how things are progressing. My old-biddy coworkers want me to eat more.
posted by SeedStitch at 11:00 AM on March 22, 2013
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