Storms and teacups, sexual dimorphism and patriarchy
March 26, 2013 1:33 AM Subscribe
Steven Wittens (previously) writes a long and thoughtful post on gender, feminism and (online) harrassment. Topics range from Atlassian comparing servers to proms, over Jezebel and redface, Elevatorgate (previously), women in open source (see also), to of course the outrage du jour, The Adria Richards Pycon Thing (previously).
This post was deleted for the following reason: This reads more like one person's opinion piece than something especially compelling from the web. We have quite a high bar for posts about gender and sexism at this point in time and this one does not clear it, sorry. -- goodnewsfortheinsane
Yeah, not very convincing.
posted by MartinWisse at 1:47 AM on March 26, 2013
posted by MartinWisse at 1:47 AM on March 26, 2013
Long, yes. Thoughtful, no. Entirely full of unmitigated bullshit? I leave that as an exercise for the reader.
But the answer is 'yes'.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:54 AM on March 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
But the answer is 'yes'.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:54 AM on March 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
In general, the article comes across as the reflections of a not too self aware but relatively smart guy stringing along a series of incidents to tell a story badly, which is that, erm, women overreact to online sexism, are too sensitive?
He shows no sign he understands some of the things he talks about (e.g. the redface thing mentioned above, which is dismissed by hyukking about the fashion industry) and reduces each to some caricature where some poor innocent saying the wrong thing is torn apart by a mob of online feminists.
posted by MartinWisse at 1:55 AM on March 26, 2013
He shows no sign he understands some of the things he talks about (e.g. the redface thing mentioned above, which is dismissed by hyukking about the fashion industry) and reduces each to some caricature where some poor innocent saying the wrong thing is torn apart by a mob of online feminists.
posted by MartinWisse at 1:55 AM on March 26, 2013
He begins that way, Martin, but then later on he begins saying things like this:
Could it be that the sexism women say they are constantly subjected to online, is merely the flipside of a coin? One that allows them to cultivate attention with nothing more than a well-chosen avatar, and which men eagerly give to them? How many women forego the make-up in their profiles and videos before lamenting the unsolicited date proposals, awkward as they may be?
posted by distorte at 1:58 AM on March 26, 2013
Could it be that the sexism women say they are constantly subjected to online, is merely the flipside of a coin? One that allows them to cultivate attention with nothing more than a well-chosen avatar, and which men eagerly give to them? How many women forego the make-up in their profiles and videos before lamenting the unsolicited date proposals, awkward as they may be?
posted by distorte at 1:58 AM on March 26, 2013
He asks at the beginning, Please read it top to bottom, or not at all. I started, but I found his presentation of 'Elevatorgate' so depressing that I just gave up.
posted by Azara at 2:02 AM on March 26, 2013
posted by Azara at 2:02 AM on March 26, 2013
What a pile of shit that essay is, but this paragraph is the worst:
Let me borrow a quote from Stephen Fry: "The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic church in a nutshell." You'll never see more talk of sexism and rape than on feminist websites.
posted by empath at 2:02 AM on March 26, 2013
Let me borrow a quote from Stephen Fry: "The only people who are obsessed with food are anorexics and the morbidly obese, and that in erotic terms is the Catholic church in a nutshell." You'll never see more talk of sexism and rape than on feminist websites.
posted by empath at 2:02 AM on March 26, 2013
It's very hard arguing about anecdotes and people's feelings, but the ground gets a little more solid when you talk about data and raw fact. I don't know how to respond to this:
Statistics show that women observe sexism online to a higher degree than men, particularly in tech and open source. Recommendations are made on how to make the community more friendly to women, and most suggestions involve re-educating men to reduce their blindness. [...] If the community was such a sexist hell for women, wouldn't you expect the web to be littered with the abandoned works of that 1/4th of professionals who are women, who were turned off by how it was received once published? Instead, I find that female-founded projects are far and few, and calls for women to participate consist mainly of inviting them into existing projects, and speaking at established conferences about existing technologies.posted by mvuijlst at 2:02 AM on March 26, 2013
So. Many. Fallacies.
It's like an encyclopedia of them if you get into the links. I'm skimming over this one and enjoying the biotruths argument focused on human differences with marmosets.
It's kind of depressing to read this sort of thing because there are serious issues men face that people need to come together and address...but not with a crazy anti-feminist movement.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:03 AM on March 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's like an encyclopedia of them if you get into the links. I'm skimming over this one and enjoying the biotruths argument focused on human differences with marmosets.
It's kind of depressing to read this sort of thing because there are serious issues men face that people need to come together and address...but not with a crazy anti-feminist movement.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:03 AM on March 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:39 AM on March 26, 2013