"U.S. Practiced Torture After 9/11, Nonpartisan Review Concludes"
April 16, 2013 8:11 AM Subscribe
Years after the first hints of "harsh interrogation practices" in the US war on terror, years after Obama's decision to "look forward, not back" and not investigate or pursue official torture by the CIA and other agencies, the 577-page Report of the Task Force on Detainee Treatment that was released today is, "[i]n many respects, . . . the examination of the treatment of suspected terrorists that official Washington has been reluctant to conduct." The New York Times' Scott Shane reports.
Like the official commissions it seeks to emulate, the Task Force on Detainee Treatment is bipartisan and made up of high-profile Republican and Democratic insiders who have served in state and federal executive and legislative branches and the military, and distinguished lawyers and intellectuals. This is a group with all the credentials of the political mainstream. It is staffed by members of the nonprofit Constitution Project.
The headline conclusions of the Report:
The report website includes the full document and various ways into it, as well as tools for exploring some of the evidence the Task Force looked at. There is a lot to dig into here.
The Constitution Project has been publicizing the document on Twitter this morning.
Like the official commissions it seeks to emulate, the Task Force on Detainee Treatment is bipartisan and made up of high-profile Republican and Democratic insiders who have served in state and federal executive and legislative branches and the military, and distinguished lawyers and intellectuals. This is a group with all the credentials of the political mainstream. It is staffed by members of the nonprofit Constitution Project.
The headline conclusions of the Report:
- US forces tortured detainees on many occasions; and
- Top US officials are responsible for torture because of decisions and policies made in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.
The report website includes the full document and various ways into it, as well as tools for exploring some of the evidence the Task Force looked at. There is a lot to dig into here.
The Constitution Project has been publicizing the document on Twitter this morning.
Slightly critical take from Marcy Wheeler (emptywheel).
posted by grobstein at 8:32 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by grobstein at 8:32 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
This hit home, about force feeding hunger strikers at Guantanamo:
If you do this to somebody, somebody who hasn't given consent, who is conscious and able to feel you forcing it down while they're tied down so they can't yank it back out again, that's not very far from rape.
posted by MartinWisse at 8:35 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I will never forget the first time they passed the feeding tube up my nose. I can't describe how painful it is to be force-fed this way. As it was thrust in, it made me feel like throwing up. I wanted to vomit, but I couldn't. There was agony in my chest, throat and stomach. I had never experienced such pain before. I would not wish this cruel punishment upon anyone.Because, you know, even in the best circumstances having a feeding tube up your nose is horrible, so much so that my wife got panic attacks just from the idea of having to have one during one of her long illnesses, having had some bad experiences with them previously. It's not just a tube up your nose, down your throat and into your stomach, it's having to have it there for as long as you need to be fed that way.
If you do this to somebody, somebody who hasn't given consent, who is conscious and able to feel you forcing it down while they're tied down so they can't yank it back out again, that's not very far from rape.
posted by MartinWisse at 8:35 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'd imagine that public sympathy for the rights of terrorists, suspected or confirmed, is hovering right around nil about now. Which is the PR problem this kind of thing has.
posted by spicynuts at 8:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by spicynuts at 8:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd imagine that public sympathy for the rights of terrorists, suspected or confirmed, is hovering right around nil about now. Which is the PR problem this kind of thing has.
Reminds me of Garofalo's visit to FOX News. Doesn't matter that we still torture people. Doesn't matter that we lied about it all. Doesn't matter that the whole mess is the worst chapter in US history. It's about how the public can be easily manipulated into ignoring crimes of this scale, whether through jingoistic appeals to freedom or through tapping into undercurrents of rage-filled grief.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Reminds me of Garofalo's visit to FOX News. Doesn't matter that we still torture people. Doesn't matter that we lied about it all. Doesn't matter that the whole mess is the worst chapter in US history. It's about how the public can be easily manipulated into ignoring crimes of this scale, whether through jingoistic appeals to freedom or through tapping into undercurrents of rage-filled grief.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
One of the consequences or torturing people instead of trying them in court is that you rob everyone of the right to know the truth of what they've actually done, if they've done anything at all.
One day someone is going to have to clean this mess up. Obama, Bush, and a raft of senior civilian and military officials are walking around with criminal sanctions hanging over their heads that everyone pretends don't exist, and anyone who dares point out the obvious truth of the matter is treated like a maniac.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:55 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
One day someone is going to have to clean this mess up. Obama, Bush, and a raft of senior civilian and military officials are walking around with criminal sanctions hanging over their heads that everyone pretends don't exist, and anyone who dares point out the obvious truth of the matter is treated like a maniac.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:55 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
In ten years we’ll leak the truth
By then it’s only so much paper
You know, Watergate hurt
But nothing really ever changed
A teeny bit quieter
But we still play our little games
We still play our little games
posted by Relay at 8:56 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
By then it’s only so much paper
You know, Watergate hurt
But nothing really ever changed
A teeny bit quieter
But we still play our little games
We still play our little games
posted by Relay at 8:56 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]
the PR problem
Human rights for suspected criminals is never a popular viewpoint, and perhaps even less so immediately after an attack like Boston. However, the "PR problem" I find more troubling is the US government's avoidance of its own crimes which, in addition to the horror inflicted on detainees, can only undermine work to uphold human rights for everyone everywhere.
posted by audi alteram partem at 8:57 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Human rights for suspected criminals is never a popular viewpoint, and perhaps even less so immediately after an attack like Boston. However, the "PR problem" I find more troubling is the US government's avoidance of its own crimes which, in addition to the horror inflicted on detainees, can only undermine work to uphold human rights for everyone everywhere.
posted by audi alteram partem at 8:57 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
audi alteram partem: oint, and perhaps even less so immediately after an attack like Boston. However, the "PR problem" I find more troubling is the US government's avoidance of its own crimes which, in addition to the horror inflicted on detainees, can only undermine work to uphold human rights for everyone everywhere.... not to mention presenting a very real risk to our soldiers overseas when they are captured, by both Al Qaeda, and future as-yet-unknown enemies. Let's see, we captured you... and your people think nothing of capturing enemies, imprisoning them in unsheltered cages, keeping them in isolated confinement for months or years, torturing them, and finally keeping them prisoner for... ever.
Whatever shall we do with you, Pvt. Johnson?
posted by IAmBroom at 9:10 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'd imagine that public sympathy for the rights of terrorists, suspected or confirmed, is hovering right around nil about now.
But that's the problem exactly and it's not about PR: justice should have nothing to do with sympathy. If it does, then justice is possible only when the circumstances make it irrelevant.
posted by ennui.bz at 9:14 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
But that's the problem exactly and it's not about PR: justice should have nothing to do with sympathy. If it does, then justice is possible only when the circumstances make it irrelevant.
posted by ennui.bz at 9:14 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Don't forget the CIA has promoted the torturers like John Brennan while imprisoning the torture whistleblower John Kiriakou.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:21 AM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 9:21 AM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
History proves that torture works.
1) If you want to get that little old lady who lives in a straw cottage to confess that she is flying on a broomstick at nights and poisoning the elderberry crops, nothing works like torture.
2) If you want to help make a dickless chicken hawk feel like he is really a tough guy, nothing works like torture.
3) If you want a supervillain's minion to confess to where a ticking bomb is planted before the commercial break, nothing works like torture.
Doesn't work so well for counterterrorism, however.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:35 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
1) If you want to get that little old lady who lives in a straw cottage to confess that she is flying on a broomstick at nights and poisoning the elderberry crops, nothing works like torture.
2) If you want to help make a dickless chicken hawk feel like he is really a tough guy, nothing works like torture.
3) If you want a supervillain's minion to confess to where a ticking bomb is planted before the commercial break, nothing works like torture.
Doesn't work so well for counterterrorism, however.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:35 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Don't forget the CIA has promoted the torturers like John Brennan while imprisoning the torture whistleblower John Kiriakou.
They also promoted an officer who helped destroy interrogation tapes which might have been used as evidence of torture.
posted by homunculus at 10:04 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
They also promoted an officer who helped destroy interrogation tapes which might have been used as evidence of torture.
posted by homunculus at 10:04 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Ah, now I see that was the subject of your 'promoted' link. Great minds link alike.
posted by homunculus at 10:16 AM on April 16, 2013
posted by homunculus at 10:16 AM on April 16, 2013
Practiced torture? I think the US has gotten pretty damn good at it. (I still wonder if Werner Von Braun was the only ex-Nazi we used for out own projects...)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- HL Menken
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:09 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:09 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Doubly so when your government constantly blows its own horn over how wonderful it is.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:12 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:12 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Here's a link to the report itself if you'd rather not deal with the Flash interface.
posted by compartment at 11:24 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by compartment at 11:24 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised this report hasn't engendered more discussion on MeFi. It seems important to me. The biggest shame in our country's response to the 9/11 attacks was how we stooped to torture and a variety of extrajudicial measures in largely fruitless attempts to defend the homeland. The Bush Administration's policies, particularly torture, have made America a lesser place. This report is a nice step in reconciliation.
But unless I misunderstand, this task force is not official in any way. There's going to be no response from the government, no investigation, no action, no trials. Or am I mistaken? It's nice to have some smart independent folks say "yep, it's torture", it is a useful step. But it's a long way short of the war crimes trials that are necessary.
posted by Nelson at 12:10 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
But unless I misunderstand, this task force is not official in any way. There's going to be no response from the government, no investigation, no action, no trials. Or am I mistaken? It's nice to have some smart independent folks say "yep, it's torture", it is a useful step. But it's a long way short of the war crimes trials that are necessary.
posted by Nelson at 12:10 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
"The Task Force makes a number of specific findings and recommendations. Some seem like common sense; others will undoubtedly generate controversy. Some can be implemented by executive action alone; others will require legislation. Regardless, we urge policymakers to give this report and these recommendations their full and immediate consideration."
The likelihood of any positive activity on the basis of these findings is virtually nil. Obama has preemptively granted the previous administration a full pardon, effectively, as the Department of Justice would be responsible for investigating claims of criminal behavior and placing charges. It seems like common sense that he will not send his staff to investigate wrongdoing that would likely implicate himself, in the process.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:23 PM on April 16, 2013
The likelihood of any positive activity on the basis of these findings is virtually nil. Obama has preemptively granted the previous administration a full pardon, effectively, as the Department of Justice would be responsible for investigating claims of criminal behavior and placing charges. It seems like common sense that he will not send his staff to investigate wrongdoing that would likely implicate himself, in the process.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:23 PM on April 16, 2013
I found this quote from The Economist's Johnson heartbreaking :
"In "Alone in a Sea of Voices: Recognizing a New Form of Isolation by Language Barriers", Mr Honigsberg compares physical and linguistic isolation, and found the similarities uncanny. In the most notable example, Honigsberg described a 16-year-old boy who spent eight years at Guantánamo after 9/11 because no country would have him, despite his quickly-discovered innocence. During those years, he was surrounded by prisoners who only spoke English or Arabic, while he knew only Uzbek. He was given no materials to help him learn English or Arabic, and no translator after his initial imprisonment. This resulted in a loneliness so acute that he cried every time he woke up. Mr Honigsberg wrote that this situation is akin to the anguish experienced by a stroke victim who is surrounded by conversations, but cannot participate."
posted by dhruva at 12:33 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
"In "Alone in a Sea of Voices: Recognizing a New Form of Isolation by Language Barriers", Mr Honigsberg compares physical and linguistic isolation, and found the similarities uncanny. In the most notable example, Honigsberg described a 16-year-old boy who spent eight years at Guantánamo after 9/11 because no country would have him, despite his quickly-discovered innocence. During those years, he was surrounded by prisoners who only spoke English or Arabic, while he knew only Uzbek. He was given no materials to help him learn English or Arabic, and no translator after his initial imprisonment. This resulted in a loneliness so acute that he cried every time he woke up. Mr Honigsberg wrote that this situation is akin to the anguish experienced by a stroke victim who is surrounded by conversations, but cannot participate."
posted by dhruva at 12:33 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
It's late, but if Obama would finally get on it and authorize an investigation and stop the torture, he could still salvage his history. This one issue will insure that his term will be synonymous with infamy.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:01 PM on April 16, 2013
posted by BlueHorse at 1:01 PM on April 16, 2013
justice should have nothing to do with sympathy
This presumes that you and I have the same definition of 'justice' as the average man on the street. My experience is that whether it's pedophiles, murderers, or terrorists, the predominant definition of justice is 'they should all die'. You will probably continue to argue from a position of what is ideal. I don't think most people care to do the difficult work of managing their emotions in the service of a higher ideal.
posted by spicynuts at 1:37 PM on April 16, 2013
This presumes that you and I have the same definition of 'justice' as the average man on the street. My experience is that whether it's pedophiles, murderers, or terrorists, the predominant definition of justice is 'they should all die'. You will probably continue to argue from a position of what is ideal. I don't think most people care to do the difficult work of managing their emotions in the service of a higher ideal.
posted by spicynuts at 1:37 PM on April 16, 2013
I don't think most people care to do the difficult work of managing their emotions in the service of a higher ideal.
Good thing our justice system isn't in the hands of most people. This is why it is so tragic when our institutional means for doing the difficult work of justice (yes even for accused terrorists and pedophiles) falter as badly as they have in this case. I don't think it is striving for an ideal when our courts manage to conduct murder trials without mobs summarily executing the accused, nor do I think asking for justice in torture cases is idealistic (even if some or many would dismiss it as such).
posted by audi alteram partem at 3:12 PM on April 16, 2013
Good thing our justice system isn't in the hands of most people. This is why it is so tragic when our institutional means for doing the difficult work of justice (yes even for accused terrorists and pedophiles) falter as badly as they have in this case. I don't think it is striving for an ideal when our courts manage to conduct murder trials without mobs summarily executing the accused, nor do I think asking for justice in torture cases is idealistic (even if some or many would dismiss it as such).
posted by audi alteram partem at 3:12 PM on April 16, 2013
Senator Dianne Feinstein is the Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. This committee just concluded what is reported to be a 6000 page report on torture, which remains classified and has not been released. The Intel committee sent out a press release announcing the completion of the report on December 12. Since then, nothing.
I have Senator Feinstein on speed dial and her staffers hear from me about this every week. It would be unethical to post the number but you could look it up.
I point out every time that it is beyond arguing whether torture took place. We know it did. The question is, why hasn't anyone every been held accountable? Lost a job? Been arrested? And by the way, any luck on finding out who was wrong about the WMD?
posted by Repack Rider at 4:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I have Senator Feinstein on speed dial and her staffers hear from me about this every week. It would be unethical to post the number but you could look it up.
I point out every time that it is beyond arguing whether torture took place. We know it did. The question is, why hasn't anyone every been held accountable? Lost a job? Been arrested? And by the way, any luck on finding out who was wrong about the WMD?
posted by Repack Rider at 4:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Once again the obvious is now official, years after the fact. Luckily we got to pay for it again.
posted by Twang at 8:04 PM on April 16, 2013
posted by Twang at 8:04 PM on April 16, 2013
Does anyone seriously believe that Congress would back Obama up if he made any attempt to hold any of the Bush-era torture team accountable? Really?
posted by aryma at 8:51 PM on April 16, 2013
posted by aryma at 8:51 PM on April 16, 2013
Is congressional approval required to prosecute a criminal?
posted by pompomtom at 11:38 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by pompomtom at 11:38 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
3) If you want a supervillain's minion to confess to where a ticking bomb is planted before the commercial break, nothing works like torture.
I swear to god, the public's support of torture was based wholly on fucking "24" logic. It worked for Keiffer, it has to work in real life!
posted by gjc at 3:59 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I swear to god, the public's support of torture was based wholly on fucking "24" logic. It worked for Keiffer, it has to work in real life!
posted by gjc at 3:59 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I swear to god, the public's support of torture was based wholly on fucking "24" logic.
Not just "the public": Supreme Court Justice Anthony Scalia is a fan of Jack Bauer's too.
posted by Nelson at 8:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Not just "the public": Supreme Court Justice Anthony Scalia is a fan of Jack Bauer's too.
posted by Nelson at 8:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Now seems like a good time to mention that Homeland comes from some of the core creative team of 24 (interview with creators).
People who would have dismissed 24 as right-wing schlock seem to have no trouble appreciating Homeland as "quality TV" -- a little like how people who condemned Bush's war on terror policies but are happy to accept many of the same policies under Obama.
posted by grobstein at 9:12 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
People who would have dismissed 24 as right-wing schlock seem to have no trouble appreciating Homeland as "quality TV" -- a little like how people who condemned Bush's war on terror policies but are happy to accept many of the same policies under Obama.
posted by grobstein at 9:12 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
After Obama Shuns Probe, Bipartisan Panel Finds "Indisputable" Evidence U.S. Tortured Under Bush
posted by homunculus at 10:16 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 10:16 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Not that this headline isn't important, but it does strike me as roughly as shocking as "Westboro Baptist to protest the funeral of somebody everyone likes.
And yeah, 24 has a lot to answer for. And I say that as someone who generally doesn't jump onboard with media moral panics.
posted by LukeLockhart at 10:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
And yeah, 24 has a lot to answer for. And I say that as someone who generally doesn't jump onboard with media moral panics.
posted by LukeLockhart at 10:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
grobstein, knowing that about Homeland has kept me from watching it. I can't forgive the 24 people for helping to legitimate torture, and from what I've heard, Homeland barely even tries to make amends.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:04 PM on April 17, 2013
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:04 PM on April 17, 2013
Juan Cole: Highest US Officials Responsible for Use of Torture (Plus Daily Show Video)
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on April 19, 2013
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on April 19, 2013
Even after this damning report, G. W. Bush is still confidently talking to the press: "There's no need to defend myself. I did what I did and ultimately history will judge."
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:01 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:01 AM on April 22, 2013
And how absolutely fucking perfect it is that the George W. Bush Presidential Center is set to open on May 1, which also just happens to be the tenth anniversary of the Mission Accomplished speech.
posted by homunculus at 10:53 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 10:53 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
CNN Asks Torture Proponent Alberto Gonzales About How to 'Keep America America'
posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on April 22, 2013
posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on April 22, 2013
The American Conservative: A Necessary Reckoning With Torture
The report notes that those Bush loyalists and CIA apparatchiks who persist in arguing that torture is effective might also consider the classified 6,000-page Senate Intelligence Committee report, which used government records to examine in detail every interrogation carried out by the Agency. It reportedly agreed with the Constitution Project Task Force, concluding that torture never produced any information that could not have been obtained by less coercive means. ...posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:45 AM on April 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Which leads to the report’s most important conclusion, that until the American people know exactly what was done in their name there can be no understanding of the violations of law and constitutionalism that took place after 9/11. “As long as the debate continues, so too does the possibility that the United States could again engage in torture,” the report warns while Thomas Pickering notes a bipartisan government failure to “to fully acknowledge and condemn it” so Americans can finally “confront the truth.” He adds that “democracy and torture cannot peacefully coexist in the same body politic.”
. . . Actually it's not new, I guess I only recently discovered it. Well then.
posted by grobstein at 7:52 AM on April 23, 2013
posted by grobstein at 7:52 AM on April 23, 2013
Luke's Change: An Inside Job? (Not torture, but 9/11 related)
posted by jeffburdges at 1:34 PM on April 23, 2013
posted by jeffburdges at 1:34 PM on April 23, 2013
What Game of Thrones Can Reveal About the Boston Suspect’s Interrogation
“We do not need to abase ourselves and become beasts,” observes Glenn Carle, a former CIA interrogator at one of the agency’s infamous “black site” prisons. But that doesn’t mean interrogators are angels. “I suppose,” he continues, “angels manipulate, too.” And to understand the dynamic at play, cue up the past few episodes of Game of Thrones. (Warning: some spoilers ahead.)posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:08 PM on April 24, 2013
Zero Tolerance Watch: Teen Faces Felony Charges for Science Experiment
posted by jeffburdges at 10:11 AM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 10:11 AM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Why is Obama withholding secret torture report from Americans? A massive report on torture reveals it's far less effective than reported. But the CIA refuses to declassify it
posted by homunculus at 8:11 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 8:11 PM on May 8, 2013 [1 favorite]
Brennan Cedes to Feinstein on Torture Tape Destroyer But “Defiant” on Torture Report
Human Rights Groups to Obama: Don’t Let John Brennan Cover Up the Torture He Condoned
posted by homunculus at 8:22 PM on May 8, 2013
Human Rights Groups to Obama: Don’t Let John Brennan Cover Up the Torture He Condoned
posted by homunculus at 8:22 PM on May 8, 2013
Is Dick Cheney programming Fox? "24" returns to prime time, reigniting a Bush-era debate over torture and terrorism that never really went away
posted by homunculus at 9:31 PM on May 13, 2013
posted by homunculus at 9:31 PM on May 13, 2013
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