Feminism as a scifi nightmare. No really.
April 20, 2013 6:33 AM Subscribe
A review of the 1971 novel "The Feminists," which portrayed the nightmarish future of 1992, where women ruled over men.
Also see The Worm That Turned!
The dateline is 2012. England is in the grip of a new regime of terror ... The country is being run by women ...
posted by wilko at 6:53 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
The dateline is 2012. England is in the grip of a new regime of terror ... The country is being run by women ...
posted by wilko at 6:53 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Wilko beat me to it. I remember the Two Ronnies sketch coming out and it was the height of hilarity. Yep, don't miss the 80s much.
posted by arcticseal at 7:04 AM on April 20, 2013
posted by arcticseal at 7:04 AM on April 20, 2013
Happily for the author, the dreadful spectre of a society of equal pay and political power has been averted thus far.
posted by jaduncan at 7:09 AM on April 20, 2013 [31 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 7:09 AM on April 20, 2013 [31 favorites]
That's gotta be one of the most awful romance novel covers ever
posted by The Whelk at 7:27 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:27 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Recommended viewing for all Redditors.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:31 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:31 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Herland - possibly The first all-female(sss) utopia in SF, though if you say Greek myth counts there are the Amazons.
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
But Gibson’s masculine heroes are masterful because they use a feminized technology for their own ends, or better, because their masculinity is constituted by their ability to "sleaze up to a target" and "bore and inject" into it without allowing it to find out the "size of their dicks" in advance— their facility, in short, as metaphoric rapists.
See, it's shit like this that makes me want to tear up my membership card in the guild of literary critics.
posted by R. Schlock at 7:42 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
See, it's shit like this that makes me want to tear up my membership card in the guild of literary critics.
posted by R. Schlock at 7:42 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
1. This article is a revised version of "‘Jacking In’ to the Matrix: Metaphors of Male Performance Anxiety in Cyberpunk Fiction," a paper delivered in the special session on "Political Directions in Popular Culture" at the May 1991 meeting of the Association of Canadian University Teachers of English in Kingston, Ontario.
...aaaaaaand, now it all makes sense.
posted by R. Schlock at 7:43 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
...aaaaaaand, now it all makes sense.
posted by R. Schlock at 7:43 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
No doubt from the same author as "Let Off Some Steam, Bennett: Undercurrents of Homosexuality and Bath House Decorum In 1980s Action Movies", delivered before the International Association of Red Heat fans in Chicago, Illinois.
posted by longbaugh at 7:52 AM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by longbaugh at 7:52 AM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
In Woman on the Edge of Time a possibly crazy protagonist becomes aware of two competing future time streams - one a feminist utopia, the other it's vaguely fascist opposite. In the fascist timeline they have SF entertainment about what the feminist outcome would be like, very much in the style of The Feminists.
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on April 20, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on April 20, 2013 [8 favorites]
I love these old pulp book covers. They're a perfect, 1:1 representation of all the author's sexual hang-ups.
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 7:58 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 7:58 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
there may well be writers somewhere in the West today who're self-publishing equally doom-laden futuristic novels about the dreaded ascendancy of women, but one cannot imagine any front-line commercial publisher being willing to take such a thing on.
The author vastly overestimates the quality control standards of publishers like Baen, after all John Ringo's Paladin of Shadows is a published *series*.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 8:01 AM on April 20, 2013
The author vastly overestimates the quality control standards of publishers like Baen, after all John Ringo's Paladin of Shadows is a published *series*.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 8:01 AM on April 20, 2013
In the dark future of 1992 your Gor novels are shameful contraband.
posted by Artw at 8:03 AM on April 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:03 AM on April 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
Joan Vinge's story "Tin Soldier" is a look at a future where only women are capable of long term interstellar travel, so it forces a realignment of gender classes. Women are carefree philanders, with men in every port, etc etc.
Oddly enough, there's a real problem with male astronauts, where their vision becomes blurry in space, forcing sometimes permanent vision changes. This doesn't happen to female astronauts and no one currently knows why.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on April 20, 2013 [19 favorites]
Oddly enough, there's a real problem with male astronauts, where their vision becomes blurry in space, forcing sometimes permanent vision changes. This doesn't happen to female astronauts and no one currently knows why.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on April 20, 2013 [19 favorites]
Why is it that wen people have fantasies of female social rule, the desire to dress us up like dominatrices is incurably present?
What's even stranger is that those dominatrices of popular culture usually end up subbing by the end of the show.
posted by ennui.bz at 8:23 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
What's even stranger is that those dominatrices of popular culture usually end up subbing by the end of the show.
posted by ennui.bz at 8:23 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Why is it that wen people have fantasies of female social rule, the desire to dress us up like dominatrices is incurably present?
Because dressing fantastical female rulers of the planet in french maid outfits would be silly.
posted by fnerg at 8:25 AM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Because dressing fantastical female rulers of the planet in french maid outfits would be silly.
posted by fnerg at 8:25 AM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Leather is practical.
posted by Artw at 8:27 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:27 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
R. Schlock : See, it's shit like this that makes me want to tear up my membership card in the guild of literary critics.
Obligatory XKCD.
FWIW, I took the second link as something akin to stoned intellectual masturbation... When I occasionally look over some of my own "deep thoughts" from back in my college days, it reads pretty much the same - Unintelligibly dense, tinged with the naivete of a lack of experience with the "real" world, and clearly the work of someone on better drugs than my now-self. :)
posted by pla at 8:37 AM on April 20, 2013
Obligatory XKCD.
FWIW, I took the second link as something akin to stoned intellectual masturbation... When I occasionally look over some of my own "deep thoughts" from back in my college days, it reads pretty much the same - Unintelligibly dense, tinged with the naivete of a lack of experience with the "real" world, and clearly the work of someone on better drugs than my now-self. :)
posted by pla at 8:37 AM on April 20, 2013
Recommended viewing for all Redditors.
And Dittoheads.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:45 AM on April 20, 2013
And Dittoheads.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:45 AM on April 20, 2013
Then there's the 1971 Sphere Books paperback W*H*A*M: We Hate All Males, by Mike Stout. It was the story's many lesbian love scenes which persuaded me to buy it when I was 13, but it's the plot that's made it linger in my mind ever since.
Lydia Lovemore ("tall, beautiful, regal, raven-haired, Amazonian, highly intelligent and a self-confessed Lesbian") takes over Britain, puts all the men in concentration camps, finally exterminates the male population altogether, and then evolves in a ... surprising way.
Lydia's supporters include Pam, who heads WHAM's equivalent of the SS, and Pulchra, Lydia's lover. "Pam was really expiating the terrible sense of inferiority that she felt when confronted with the male sex," Stout explains. Later, he adds: "Philosophy student or not, Pulchra was certainly the most beautiful woman in the world".
Here's a paragraph from page 118:
"Another trick that Pam used to play on the male prisoners was to line them up stark naked in the morning. Then one of the prison guards who was a statuesque redhead would go among them stark naked. Any male who had an erection was immediately shot."
And here's how the book ends:
"Lydia opened the bedroom door and led Pulchra over to their double bed. They both began to undress as quickly as possible. Pulchra threw off the fimsy dress she had been wearing and stood naked and beautiful in front of Lydia. Lydia gazed with love into her eyes.
"Then Pulchra's eyes noticed something. Her eyes were drawn as if by a magnet to Lydia's pubic region and with mixed feelings of surprise, wonder and happiness, she gasped:
"MY GOD, LYDIA, YOU'VE GROWN A PENIS!"
posted by Paul Slade at 8:49 AM on April 20, 2013 [20 favorites]
Lydia Lovemore ("tall, beautiful, regal, raven-haired, Amazonian, highly intelligent and a self-confessed Lesbian") takes over Britain, puts all the men in concentration camps, finally exterminates the male population altogether, and then evolves in a ... surprising way.
Lydia's supporters include Pam, who heads WHAM's equivalent of the SS, and Pulchra, Lydia's lover. "Pam was really expiating the terrible sense of inferiority that she felt when confronted with the male sex," Stout explains. Later, he adds: "Philosophy student or not, Pulchra was certainly the most beautiful woman in the world".
Here's a paragraph from page 118:
"Another trick that Pam used to play on the male prisoners was to line them up stark naked in the morning. Then one of the prison guards who was a statuesque redhead would go among them stark naked. Any male who had an erection was immediately shot."
And here's how the book ends:
"Lydia opened the bedroom door and led Pulchra over to their double bed. They both began to undress as quickly as possible. Pulchra threw off the fimsy dress she had been wearing and stood naked and beautiful in front of Lydia. Lydia gazed with love into her eyes.
"Then Pulchra's eyes noticed something. Her eyes were drawn as if by a magnet to Lydia's pubic region and with mixed feelings of surprise, wonder and happiness, she gasped:
"MY GOD, LYDIA, YOU'VE GROWN A PENIS!"
posted by Paul Slade at 8:49 AM on April 20, 2013 [20 favorites]
In the dark future of 1992 your Gor novels are shameful contraband.
[starman] Define "dark." [/starman]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:03 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
[starman] Define "dark." [/starman]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:03 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, if I had to choose between women and triffids, I would choose triffids.
posted by HuronBob at 9:17 AM on April 20, 2013
posted by HuronBob at 9:17 AM on April 20, 2013
I would choose triffids
[bono] Love is blindness [/bono]
posted by arcticseal at 9:26 AM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
[bono] Love is blindness [/bono]
posted by arcticseal at 9:26 AM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Why is it that wen people have fantasies of female social rule, the desire to dress us up like dominatrices is incurably present
They're not always dressed like dominatrixes.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 9:28 AM on April 20, 2013
They're not always dressed like dominatrixes.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 9:28 AM on April 20, 2013
Thank you, Midnight Rambler, for bringing in the obligatory "Angel One" reference.
I actually LOVE the costume work in that episode. The women look forceful without being parodies of Ilsa The She-Wolf, and the men's costumes really sell their position in society.
I mean, the episode is problematic as fuck, though frankly it is BY FAR not the worst of the series.
posted by Sara C. at 9:58 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
I actually LOVE the costume work in that episode. The women look forceful without being parodies of Ilsa The She-Wolf, and the men's costumes really sell their position in society.
I mean, the episode is problematic as fuck, though frankly it is BY FAR not the worst of the series.
posted by Sara C. at 9:58 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
See also...
I have that one on my bookshelves, somewhere. I keep it for the yuks. It was as rubbish as you might expect.
posted by Decani at 10:03 AM on April 20, 2013
I have that one on my bookshelves, somewhere. I keep it for the yuks. It was as rubbish as you might expect.
posted by Decani at 10:03 AM on April 20, 2013
"Her eyes were drawn as if by a magnet to Lydia's pubic region and with mixed feelings of surprise, wonder and happiness, she gasped: "MY GOD, LYDIA, YOU'VE GROWN A PENIS!"
Cover art (penis free).
posted by mph at 10:10 AM on April 20, 2013
Cover art (penis free).
posted by mph at 10:10 AM on April 20, 2013
Someone needs to take Lydia aside and explain that the bike shorts and loafers combo is doing nothing for her. From the waist up, though? WOULD TOTALLY WEAR
posted by Sara C. at 10:15 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 10:15 AM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
"All That Glitters" meets "Prisoner, Cell Block H."
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 10:34 AM on April 20, 2013
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 10:34 AM on April 20, 2013
See, it's shit like this that makes me want to tear up my membership card in the guild of literary critics.
On the other hand, it's always good to see Bruce Sterling taken down a peg.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:40 AM on April 20, 2013
On the other hand, it's always good to see Bruce Sterling taken down a peg.
posted by KokuRyu at 10:40 AM on April 20, 2013
"Women running society" is right up there with "Flying cars" on my list of incorrect predictions I WISH had come true.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:53 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:53 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm embarrassed to admit I once wrote a comment fable very much like this book.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:56 AM on April 20, 2013
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:56 AM on April 20, 2013
This actually existed.
The OWK is a matriarchy, where women rule. The state also has strong BDSM and Female dominance themes. The state's goal "is to get as many male creatures under the unlimited rule of Superior Women on as much territory as possible."posted by desjardins at 11:33 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Obligatory "Houston, Houston, Do You Read?" link. (Previous James Tiptree, Jr. on the blue) Female-only world, and possibly deliberately:
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:49 AM on April 20, 2013
From the promised short history he finds out more about the epidemic. It seems to have been an airborne quasi-virus escaped from Franco-Arab military labs, possibly potentiated by pollutants. "It apparently damaged only the reproductive cells," he tells Dave and Bud. "There was little actual mortality, but almost universal sterility. Probably a molecular substitution in the gene code in the gametes. And the main effect seems to have been on the men. They mention a shortage of male births afterwards, which suggests that the damage was on the Y-chromosome where it would be selectively lethal to the male fetus."A genetically-engineered bioweapon that targets the Y chromosome specifically. Hmmm...
"Is it still dangerous, Doc?" Dave asks. "What happens to us when we get back home?"
"They can't say. The birthrate is normal now, about two percent and rising. But the present population may be resistant. They never achieved a vaccine."
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:49 AM on April 20, 2013
On the other hand, it's always good to see Bruce Sterling taken down a peg.
Don't worry, overblown Cyberpunk manifestos, I still love you.
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't worry, overblown Cyberpunk manifestos, I still love you.
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
And then there's the 1889 sci-fi Anno Domini 2000: A Woman's Destiny:
posted by Paragon at 12:09 PM on April 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
The novel describes the exploits of Hilda Fitzherbert, a 23-year-old former Undersecretary for Home Affairs, and then Imperial Prime Minister, in a future where the British Empire has achieved both female suffrage (which New Zealand granted in real life in 1893) and become an Imperial Federation, apart from an independent Ireland. However, Sir Reginald Paramatta, a villainous Australian republican, has his eyes set on the abduction and wooing of Miss Fitzherbert. Miss Fitzherbert foils the Republican plans and falls in love with Emperor Albert, the dashing young ruler of the Federated British Empire.It may qualify as the first political fanfic, given that the author was a former prime minister of New Zealand.
Unfortunately, their plans hit a snag when the Emperor refuses the hand of the female US President's daughter, which precipitates an Anglo-American war, which the Empire wins, leading to the dissolution of the United States, its reabsorption into the Empire, and the ensuing marriage of Hilda and the Emperor.
posted by Paragon at 12:09 PM on April 20, 2013 [5 favorites]
Oddly enough, there's a real problem with male astronauts, where their vision becomes blurry in space, forcing sometimes permanent vision changes. This doesn't happen to female astronauts and no one currently knows why.
Apparently it really does make you go blind if you do it in zero gravity.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:16 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Apparently it really does make you go blind if you do it in zero gravity.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:16 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Some (dated) info on Parley J Cooper from Advocate;5/4/77, Issue 215, p43 via EBSCO:
"Best selling author Parley J. Cooper, 40 and living in Santa Clara, California, hopes that his first published book 'Revelations of a Nymphomaniac,' is no longer in print. His current book, 'Dark Desires,' is very much so, approaching the million mark, as of May 4, 1977. Cooper grew up in Medford, Oregon, and his dozen or so books frequently have Oregon and California coastal settings. 'Dark Desires,' however, is an antebellum Louisiana historical novel, inspired by Cooper's Southern ancestors. He has dealt with many topics, including gay people. Cooper had a book published in 1970 called 'The Feminists,' in which he transposed male and female roles in society, with the men fighting for liberation by means of actual physical battle. The book is being reissued soon, partially because of its topical nature."
Myself, of the Parley J. Cooper oeuvre, I am most eager to get a hold of Reverend Mama.
NB, The Feminists got four stars on Amazon.
Okay, one review, but still. Plus it was good enough to warrant a Spanish translation
posted by IndigoJones at 12:43 PM on April 20, 2013
"Best selling author Parley J. Cooper, 40 and living in Santa Clara, California, hopes that his first published book 'Revelations of a Nymphomaniac,' is no longer in print. His current book, 'Dark Desires,' is very much so, approaching the million mark, as of May 4, 1977. Cooper grew up in Medford, Oregon, and his dozen or so books frequently have Oregon and California coastal settings. 'Dark Desires,' however, is an antebellum Louisiana historical novel, inspired by Cooper's Southern ancestors. He has dealt with many topics, including gay people. Cooper had a book published in 1970 called 'The Feminists,' in which he transposed male and female roles in society, with the men fighting for liberation by means of actual physical battle. The book is being reissued soon, partially because of its topical nature."
Myself, of the Parley J. Cooper oeuvre, I am most eager to get a hold of Reverend Mama.
NB, The Feminists got four stars on Amazon.
Okay, one review, but still. Plus it was good enough to warrant a Spanish translation
posted by IndigoJones at 12:43 PM on April 20, 2013
Well, I think John Knox wrote a fair precursor this genre in 1558 with, The first blast of the trumpet against the monstruous regiment of women railing against the Catholic female sovereigns Mary of Guise, Dowager Queen of Scotland and regent to her daughter Mary, Queen of Scots, and Queen Mary I of England, as he believed the world was going to hell in a handbasket with these women in charge. Imagine his surprise when Queen Elizabeth I came to the throne in England and saw John Knox as a traitorous, misogynist rather than as her Protestant ally. Queen Elizabeth I was not as Knox's imagined women, "weake, the sicke, and impotent persones...foolishe, madde and phrenetike." Throw in some of the action scenes he doubtless imagined, a bit of fashion commentary, and you'd have some first class historical sci-fi.
posted by Anitanola at 1:01 PM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Anitanola at 1:01 PM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Have you any idea how it feels to be a Fembot living in a Manbot's Manputer's world?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:06 PM on April 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:06 PM on April 20, 2013 [6 favorites]
Well, we had a society run by women in the 1980s in the UK, and everyone was all pissy about it and hated the one with the power - so I guess that's right!
posted by alasdair at 2:58 PM on April 20, 2013
posted by alasdair at 2:58 PM on April 20, 2013
> Have you any idea how it feels to be a Fembot living in a Manbot's Manputer's world?
Why? Whyyyy?
posted by mrzarquon at 3:00 PM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
Why? Whyyyy?
posted by mrzarquon at 3:00 PM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]
I haven't made an exhaustive study or anything but I am surprised (and mildly annoyed) by how many sf novels set in female run worlds or female only worlds are about dudes. If it's female only, it's all "Oh, noes/yes, the men are coming back!". If it's female run, it's "war of the sexes", and/or, the main character is a man and/or the novel is about men fighting for their rights. (I don't know of any sf novels that feature women as a group fighting for and getting their rights as a plot point.) I am so bored with all of that.
Ammonite and The Exiles Trilogy (RIP) are the only book I can recall where it's "Here is a planet of/ruled by women. Let's see what they get up to." which is what I would like to read.
posted by nooneyouknow at 4:40 PM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Ammonite and The Exiles Trilogy (RIP) are the only book I can recall where it's "Here is a planet of/ruled by women. Let's see what they get up to." which is what I would like to read.
posted by nooneyouknow at 4:40 PM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
Well, we had a society run by women in the 1980s in the UK, and everyone was all pissy about it
Another one of those comments that are not merely wrong, but from an entirely different reality.
Back in 1977 or so I watched a TV movie with this basic plot-- a future where the world is run by women, and men are their enslaved chattels. There was some reason for watching it, which might have had something to do with Star Trek, possibly? All I can remember is everyone making jokes about one boy's car, as a smoking wreck of a 20th century four-door served as some kind of plot device (you had to be there and be thoroughly stoned, but trust me, this was hilarious). And that at the end the women gave in to their natural heterosexual instincts and started making out with the guys. The terror of women Taking Over is a well worn masculine paranoia.
posted by jokeefe at 6:32 PM on April 20, 2013
Another one of those comments that are not merely wrong, but from an entirely different reality.
Back in 1977 or so I watched a TV movie with this basic plot-- a future where the world is run by women, and men are their enslaved chattels. There was some reason for watching it, which might have had something to do with Star Trek, possibly? All I can remember is everyone making jokes about one boy's car, as a smoking wreck of a 20th century four-door served as some kind of plot device (you had to be there and be thoroughly stoned, but trust me, this was hilarious). And that at the end the women gave in to their natural heterosexual instincts and started making out with the guys. The terror of women Taking Over is a well worn masculine paranoia.
posted by jokeefe at 6:32 PM on April 20, 2013
That's part of why I don't hate Star Trek:TNG's take on it, "Angel One". Some random spacedudes crash on a matriarchal planet, and it turns out they don't get along real nicely with the planet's inhabitants. After several years, the Enterprise arrives to "rescue" them (from the initial crash, not teh wimminz) and gets involved in the weird political dynamics between the pre-existing matriarchal establishment and the renegades/their supporters.
There is a thread of "war of the sexes" or "men fighting for their rights" running through the story, but there are enough other plot elements that it doesn't become quite as ridiculous as it could.
I mean, it's still ridiculous, because Riker hooks up with the ruler of the planet using a special sexytimes space cube marital aid, and the costumes are off the fucking chain, and there's a tiny red headed man named Trent, and, you know, it's first season TNG so they're always up for a heaping pile of ridiculous. But this thread proves it could have been a lot worse.
posted by Sara C. at 6:36 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
There is a thread of "war of the sexes" or "men fighting for their rights" running through the story, but there are enough other plot elements that it doesn't become quite as ridiculous as it could.
I mean, it's still ridiculous, because Riker hooks up with the ruler of the planet using a special sexytimes space cube marital aid, and the costumes are off the fucking chain, and there's a tiny red headed man named Trent, and, you know, it's first season TNG so they're always up for a heaping pile of ridiculous. But this thread proves it could have been a lot worse.
posted by Sara C. at 6:36 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
Nooneyouknow, that was what irritated me about Y:The Last Man. All the men dead somehow makes life even more about dudes. The women meeting at the Washington Monument to mourn the loss of penises in their lives was where I gave up. Just...no.
posted by emjaybee at 6:42 PM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 6:42 PM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]
John Wydham had Consider Her Ways And Others which does the World Without Men quite well, I think, considering it was written in the late 1950s. But I have a bit of a tin-ear for feminist nuance.
Likewise, CL Moore has a story about a world where, thanks to magic, a geneticist get to see what would happen in two alternative futures, one controlled by men, the other by women.
Neither was much chop, frankly.
But both are better than the Sliders future when men were stock useful only for breeding.
I always take a lot of these "Where Women Rule" tropes as "What Ifs" that say a lot about the time in which they are written that we can learn from. And I've always hated the straight reversal ones.
posted by Mezentian at 8:00 PM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
Likewise, CL Moore has a story about a world where, thanks to magic, a geneticist get to see what would happen in two alternative futures, one controlled by men, the other by women.
Neither was much chop, frankly.
But both are better than the Sliders future when men were stock useful only for breeding.
I always take a lot of these "Where Women Rule" tropes as "What Ifs" that say a lot about the time in which they are written that we can learn from. And I've always hated the straight reversal ones.
posted by Mezentian at 8:00 PM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
And before that (Parley Cooper? WTF is thatl, really?), you can cast back to She by H. Rider Haggard. Oh those matriarchal nightmares.
posted by Twang at 8:35 PM on April 20, 2013
posted by Twang at 8:35 PM on April 20, 2013
Oh! She! Good one.
What about the tales of the Amazons? Sadly Wonder Woman has infested my brain, but wouldn't they be some of the earliest fanciful tales of the matriarchal world beyond imagination?
posted by Mezentian at 8:48 PM on April 20, 2013
What about the tales of the Amazons? Sadly Wonder Woman has infested my brain, but wouldn't they be some of the earliest fanciful tales of the matriarchal world beyond imagination?
posted by Mezentian at 8:48 PM on April 20, 2013
They would be, except we later found out via archaeology that the Amazons were real.
We don't know if they were literally matriarchal according to modern definitions, but they certainly would have been unthinkably woman-centered for the time that Herodotus was writing about them, compared to a classical Athenian culture where women had no role in public life at all.
posted by Sara C. at 10:55 PM on April 20, 2013
We don't know if they were literally matriarchal according to modern definitions, but they certainly would have been unthinkably woman-centered for the time that Herodotus was writing about them, compared to a classical Athenian culture where women had no role in public life at all.
posted by Sara C. at 10:55 PM on April 20, 2013
And before that (Parley Cooper? WTF is thatl, really?), you can cast back to She by H. Rider Haggard. Oh those matriarchal nightmares.
I'm not sure that counts.
I am damn fucking certain that Maggie fucking Thatcher doesn't count.
posted by Artw at 10:56 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure that counts.
I am damn fucking certain that Maggie fucking Thatcher doesn't count.
posted by Artw at 10:56 PM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]
They would be, except we later found out via archaeology that the Amazons were real.
True. But aren't there are a few hundred (or thousand?) years of stories around the idea such a society stitched to the Amazon myth?
I am damn fucking certain that Maggie fucking Thatcher doesn't count.
She certainly scared a lot of children.
posted by Mezentian at 11:34 PM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
True. But aren't there are a few hundred (or thousand?) years of stories around the idea such a society stitched to the Amazon myth?
I am damn fucking certain that Maggie fucking Thatcher doesn't count.
She certainly scared a lot of children.
posted by Mezentian at 11:34 PM on April 20, 2013 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, it's always good to see Bruce Sterling taken down a peg.
Why?
posted by Sebmojo at 11:50 PM on April 20, 2013
Why?
posted by Sebmojo at 11:50 PM on April 20, 2013
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Thomas Berger's Regiment of Women, a dystopic novel in which women are the boorish bosses and they wear suits and ties while the men are ditzy secretaries who wear stockings and heels. I read it when I was maybe 13, and don't feel qualified to conjecture on Berger's point, if he was being misogynistic or misandristic or what the hell. I do remember that the book made me feel really creepy, though.
I mean, the episode is problematic as fuck, though frankly it is BY FAR not the worst of the series.
Really? My goodness, which one was? (I'd say this one narrowly edges out the 1st season Planet of the Awkward Racial Sterotypes.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 12:23 AM on April 21, 2013
I mean, the episode is problematic as fuck, though frankly it is BY FAR not the worst of the series.
Really? My goodness, which one was? (I'd say this one narrowly edges out the 1st season Planet of the Awkward Racial Sterotypes.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 12:23 AM on April 21, 2013
I'm right now listening to an episode of the old radio show "X Minus One" called "Venus is a Man's World" by William Tenn, who primarily used science fiction as a tool of satire. It's a story about the sexes on earth reversing power (as a result of some radioactive thingy that causes a lot of men to die off), and women going to space, where there are all sorts of rugged he-men working on other planets, to find mates. And there's some nice satiric qualities -- man are presumed to be emotional beyond reason by women, which is usually the sort of thing men accuse women of. But every chance they get, at least in the radio adaptation, women revert back to sexist stereotypes, usually for comic effect.
It's very weird, especially as the climax (SPOILER) has a male judge tricking a woman into marrying a man, and him tricking her a second time with a promise that she will enjoy a position of power that is actually meaningless.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:35 AM on April 21, 2013
It's very weird, especially as the climax (SPOILER) has a male judge tricking a woman into marrying a man, and him tricking her a second time with a promise that she will enjoy a position of power that is actually meaningless.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:35 AM on April 21, 2013
> "Ammonite and The Exiles Trilogy (RIP) are the only book I can recall where it's 'Here is a planet of/ruled by women. Let's see what they get up to.' which is what I would like to read."
Jane Fletcher's Celaeno series fits this bill.
posted by kyrademon at 3:56 AM on April 21, 2013
Jane Fletcher's Celaeno series fits this bill.
posted by kyrademon at 3:56 AM on April 21, 2013
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Glory Season yet. Granted, I haven't read it since junior high so I can't really say much about it myself!
posted by brundlefly at 9:30 AM on April 21, 2013
posted by brundlefly at 9:30 AM on April 21, 2013
(I'd say this one narrowly edges out the 1st season Planet of the Awkward Racial Sterotypes.)
I'd say it VASTLY edges that one out, and is better on gender politics than almost any Troi-centric episode.
Episodes that handle political topics worse are (I am too lazy to look up titles for any of these), off the top of my head:
Planet Of The Awkward Racial Stereotypes
Riker Dates A Transwoman (which is also not quite as bad as people remember if you read it as dealing with trans issues, though it was written to be about gay rights)
Troi Impregnated By A Space Pixie
Won't Somebody Think Of The Space Pollution
Troi's Arranged Marriage
Also any early Ferengi episode if you're in the camp that regards the Ferengi as an anti-semitic stereotype.
In terms of episodes that are categorically worse in terms of storytelling, I'd nominate "Disaster" and the "Time's Arrow" two-parter, just for two that people seem to either not have problems with or even consider pretty good. There are LOTS of episodes that are just sort of dull and forgettable, and which I would personally rank below "Angel One" because at least "Angel One" is interesting. Also, ummmmmm "Sub Rosa", anyone? "Sub Rosa" is DEFINITELY worse than "Angel One", if you want to start ranking the campy shitty silly ones. At least "Angel One" has vaguely feminist themes and generally hangs together as a work of fiction.
It's not my favorite episode of the series, and it definitely belongs in the bottom half, but my assumption about people who think it's the Worst Episode is that they fit into one of two camps - either they haven't actually seen that much TNG and remember it as "worst" because it's memorable and silly, or they hate it because it depicts strong female characters in positions of authority.
This concludes my rant about this one particular Star Trek episode nobody has ever even seen.
posted by Sara C. at 10:45 AM on April 21, 2013
I'd say it VASTLY edges that one out, and is better on gender politics than almost any Troi-centric episode.
Episodes that handle political topics worse are (I am too lazy to look up titles for any of these), off the top of my head:
Planet Of The Awkward Racial Stereotypes
Riker Dates A Transwoman (which is also not quite as bad as people remember if you read it as dealing with trans issues, though it was written to be about gay rights)
Troi Impregnated By A Space Pixie
Won't Somebody Think Of The Space Pollution
Troi's Arranged Marriage
Also any early Ferengi episode if you're in the camp that regards the Ferengi as an anti-semitic stereotype.
In terms of episodes that are categorically worse in terms of storytelling, I'd nominate "Disaster" and the "Time's Arrow" two-parter, just for two that people seem to either not have problems with or even consider pretty good. There are LOTS of episodes that are just sort of dull and forgettable, and which I would personally rank below "Angel One" because at least "Angel One" is interesting. Also, ummmmmm "Sub Rosa", anyone? "Sub Rosa" is DEFINITELY worse than "Angel One", if you want to start ranking the campy shitty silly ones. At least "Angel One" has vaguely feminist themes and generally hangs together as a work of fiction.
It's not my favorite episode of the series, and it definitely belongs in the bottom half, but my assumption about people who think it's the Worst Episode is that they fit into one of two camps - either they haven't actually seen that much TNG and remember it as "worst" because it's memorable and silly, or they hate it because it depicts strong female characters in positions of authority.
This concludes my rant about this one particular Star Trek episode nobody has ever even seen.
posted by Sara C. at 10:45 AM on April 21, 2013
I read it when I was maybe 13, and don't feel qualified to conjecture on Berger's point, if he was being misogynistic or misandristic or what the hell.
It may just be that I recently had another online run-in with MRAs, and feeling a little sensitive, but I feel compelled to point out that "misandry" as a social/cultural phenomena isn't really a thing that exists.
posted by jokeefe at 3:47 PM on April 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
It may just be that I recently had another online run-in with MRAs, and feeling a little sensitive, but I feel compelled to point out that "misandry" as a social/cultural phenomena isn't really a thing that exists.
posted by jokeefe at 3:47 PM on April 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
From Wikipedia: "Misandry is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex)."
That certainly exists. There are plenty of people who hate men.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 12:38 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
That certainly exists. There are plenty of people who hate men.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 12:38 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
This concludes my rant about this one particular Star Trek episode nobody has ever even seen.
It's okay, Sara C.
You're not alone.
I've seen them all at least twice. Even Sub Rosa. But I'm a sucker for things shot in studio that are obviously pretending to be outside.
And I liked them all at least once (except that clip show).
My fond memories of Planet Of The Awkward Racial Stereotypes and Angel One will last as long as my VHS tapes have THAT CERTAIN SMELL.
Also any early Ferengi episode if you're in the camp that regards the Ferengi as an anti-semitic stereotype.
I'm not sure.... the earliest Ferengi episodes had them as a bit of a competent warrior race. Jewish-inspired aliens on screen are typically a cowardly, superstitious lot.
posted by Mezentian at 1:59 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's okay, Sara C.
You're not alone.
I've seen them all at least twice. Even Sub Rosa. But I'm a sucker for things shot in studio that are obviously pretending to be outside.
And I liked them all at least once (except that clip show).
My fond memories of Planet Of The Awkward Racial Stereotypes and Angel One will last as long as my VHS tapes have THAT CERTAIN SMELL.
Also any early Ferengi episode if you're in the camp that regards the Ferengi as an anti-semitic stereotype.
I'm not sure.... the earliest Ferengi episodes had them as a bit of a competent warrior race. Jewish-inspired aliens on screen are typically a cowardly, superstitious lot.
posted by Mezentian at 1:59 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've seen them all at least twice. Even Sub Rosa.
I have the blu-rays. They look awesome.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:59 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have the blu-rays. They look awesome.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:59 AM on April 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
This actually existed.
The OWK is a matriarchy, where women rule. The state also has strong BDSM and Female dominance themes. The state's goal "is to get as many male creatures under the unlimited rule of Superior Women on as much territory as possible."
posted by desjardins at 7:33 PM on April 20
Yeah but come on. That was purely a sex/SM thing. Wait... existed? Past tense? Well SHIT!
I've said too much.
posted by Decani at 1:24 PM on April 28, 2013
The OWK is a matriarchy, where women rule. The state also has strong BDSM and Female dominance themes. The state's goal "is to get as many male creatures under the unlimited rule of Superior Women on as much territory as possible."
posted by desjardins at 7:33 PM on April 20
Yeah but come on. That was purely a sex/SM thing. Wait... existed? Past tense? Well SHIT!
I've said too much.
posted by Decani at 1:24 PM on April 28, 2013
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posted by yoHighness at 6:36 AM on April 20, 2013