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May 15, 2013 8:51 PM

Put in your preferred beer style, and Beer Viz will tell you about similar beers using data collected from Beer Advocate.
posted by shivohum (73 comments total)

This thing said Lindemans Framboise, which is the only beer I've ever had that didn't taste like the interior of a car (disgustingly bitter), is similar to something on the other side of the wheel called Abbey Belgian Style Ale. But the closest state it's available in is Utah. Come on! I bet all of the fruit-based beers are probably decent, but $5 or $6 for a single bottle is kind of absurd.
posted by Redfield at 9:14 PM on May 15, 2013 [1 favorite]

this thing pales in comparison to my favorite bartender's recommendations at my local. nice try though!
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 9:18 PM on May 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

Neat visualisations, but clearly made by people who don't know or like beer. Bad data set, (Beer Advocate? Really?) and the interface is pretty useless for finding something you want to drink. Starting out by classifying beers as "Light, Medium or Dark" with no regard to sweetness, fullness, bitterness, alcoholic strength or anything that you actually experience once you put the beer in your mouth, shows that this is more of a design exercise than anything meant to be useful. D+
posted by Anoplura at 9:23 PM on May 15, 2013 [19 favorites]

Redfield: "This thing said Lindemans Framboise, which is the only beer I've ever had that didn't taste like the interior of a car (disgustingly bitter), is similar to something on the other side of the wheel called Abbey Belgian Style Ale. But the closest state it's available in is Utah. Come on! I bet all of the fruit-based beers are probably decent, but $5 or $6 for a single bottle is kind of absurd."

Lamibcs, man.
posted by boo_radley at 9:28 PM on May 15, 2013 [5 favorites]

Hmm. Their entry for Pliny the Elder links to nothing else. It's an outstanding beer, but I wonder if that was intentional. Nice student effort, but I wouldn't trust it. Content is king.
posted by mumkin at 9:29 PM on May 15, 2013

Pliny is in a class by itself. A delicious, delicious class.
posted by rtha at 9:55 PM on May 15, 2013 [1 favorite]

Guinness Black Lager doesn't link to anything else either. Yet a very similar beer is Shiner Bohemian Black Lager.

I do not recommend you drink either of them though. They are very poor representatives of the Schwarzbier style, if that's even what they were trying to attempt.


So the thing looks pretty but the sparse information it contains is mostly useless.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:15 PM on May 15, 2013

I do find this lacking, but I am impressed they mentioned Schlafly.
posted by fyrebelley at 10:16 PM on May 15, 2013 [1 favorite]

There are no porters. They're not even lumped in with the stouts that I can tell.

That said, I'm surprised they're using Rickshaw, since it's extremely limited and probably not much help for this (unlike the underlying d3.js).

Then again, maybe they're just copying one of the d3 examples.
posted by 23 at 10:19 PM on May 15, 2013

Maybe I'm not drunk enough, but I can't figure out what the hell to do with this or how to read it. I feel dumb.
posted by Kloryne at 11:28 PM on May 15, 2013 [2 favorites]

They're asking us to pick our preferred beer strength by color? I'm not sure these folks know what they're doing.
posted by The Potate at 12:28 AM on May 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Beer Viz?

Needs more Roger Mellie.
posted by pompomtom at 12:40 AM on May 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

boo radley: abbey beers are not lambic. They are wonderful, but not lambic. Lambics require an acidic water source to get right. A fact which trips certain Brazilian business people who think beer is mostly about business.
posted by Goofyy at 1:39 AM on May 16, 2013

This applet could overthink a plate of beers.
posted by knile at 4:19 AM on May 16, 2013

Does this exist for wine? (At least the "pick a color" would be a little more valid...)
posted by madcaptenor at 4:27 AM on May 16, 2013

The creators of this seem to have a thing for pumpkin beers. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
posted by Thorzdad at 4:30 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

In my experience, these beer suggestion things never account for the extremely regional distribution of beers. I can't even buy half the beers they mention. Founders just showed up last year.
posted by smackfu at 5:07 AM on May 16, 2013

I like the random inclusion of various continental european beers I drink (here on the continent) and a ton of crazy-named american beers which I've never even heard of, even though I am a beer-loving american.

What's up with names like "400 pound killer monkey Ale?" that doesn't tell me much about the beer. I've never understood this.

Anyway, I second the question about the love of pumpkin ales, that seems odd to me. I didn't realize pumpkin was so well represented out there.

not a useful tool whatsoever.
posted by EricGjerde at 5:12 AM on May 16, 2013

What's up with names like "400 pound killer monkey Ale?"

There's a very annoying EXXXXTREEEEEME!!!11! thread running through the craft brew world that absolutely loves this kind of naming crap. It seems to sync-up with brewers who can't seem to make anything that isn't quadruple-imperial, or uses the entire hop harvest from Oregon in a single batch. Bro brews.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:21 AM on May 16, 2013 [10 favorites]

Dear America

We're all super excited you've finally got the whole beer thing, we really are, but good god just chill will you? You're like a kid with a new toy that won't leave the damn thing alone, taking it to bed with you, dragging it down the shops with you and churning out micro-brew after micro-brew.

Take a deep breath, kick back, and pause to enjoy the beer you're currently drinking. There's no need to rush off to the next teeny tiny batch being concocted in some backwoods brewhouse by a hut-dwelling beer savant. Savour what you currently like, relax and generally calm the fuck down.

It's beer people, not pokeman. You don't have to collect them all

Love,

The rest of the beer drinking world

PS You know there is such a thing as too much hops, right?
posted by fatfrank at 5:22 AM on May 16, 2013 [14 favorites]

At least we're not fixated on having the correct glass for every single beer, like some countries.
posted by smackfu at 5:39 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Did I miss it or is Gulden Draak not on here?
posted by mean cheez at 5:43 AM on May 16, 2013

Dunkels are listed under "Light" beer? The clue is in the name, Beerviz - "dunkel" means "dark".
posted by MUD at 5:51 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The creators of this seem to have a thing for pumpkin beers. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Well, except for the words "pumpkin" and "beer" in close proximity. Grain, yeast, water, hops -- the alchemy is in the combinations, not dumping your pantry in there.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:03 AM on May 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

Thorzdad, I agree with you on the annoying nature of the extreme beer trend, but 400 Pound Monkey is a pretty reserved English style IPA, in spite of its name. And the ubiquity of horribly spiced "pumpkin" beers makes me almost want to avoid my local beer mecca in the fall. Almost.
posted by mollweide at 6:07 AM on May 16, 2013

Against Hoppy Beer. I love hops but she does have a point.
posted by octothorpe at 6:16 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Anyone ever have Thomas Hardy's Ale? Now there was a beer.
posted by dfriedman at 6:27 AM on May 16, 2013

Against Hoppy Beer. I love hops but she does have a point.

She does have a point, but she seems to fundamentally misunderstand the brewing process. Not a good sign in a beer writer.
posted by mollweide at 6:31 AM on May 16, 2013

untappd is the best beer logging app I've found. It has a few decent beer-exploration features and only as much social interaction as you want. Now, if I could just figure out if I should be proud or sad about my 500 unique beers logged...
posted by wannabepre at 6:35 AM on May 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

She has several good points but AUGH NO, IBUs are not for measuring HOPPINESS, they are for BITTERNESS, it is right there in the abbreviation!
posted by clavicle at 7:01 AM on May 16, 2013

Yeah, I have been enjoying untappd. It's definitely aimed at the bar beer drinker, who just wants to record what they drank and not write a lengthy tasting review. Although sometimes you win a badge that's not exactly a good thing, like the Happy Hour Hound ("You’ve had 10 beers from 6PM - 8PM on weekdays, in one month.").

Practically speaking, the whole American craft beer thing can get a little overwhelming. Dozens of breweries, each releasing both seasonals and limited editions. At my favorite beer bar, their 20 taps will usually have only three or four beers that I've ever seen before, and I am in there at least once a week.
posted by smackfu at 7:03 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Although sometimes you win a badge that's not exactly a good thing

I, uh, might have earned the "Take It Easy" badge: 12 beers in a day. To my credit, it was a late night and early next day, and they were 10oz Medalla Lights in Puerto Rico. I'm not sure I was even buzzed.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:07 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Dear America

We're all super excited you've finally got the whole beer thing, we really are, but good god just chill will you?

Dear the rest of the beer drinking world,

No.

Sincerely,

America
posted by IjonTichy at 7:10 AM on May 16, 2013 [4 favorites]

We really do need a moratorium on IPAs.

For those of us who like other kinds of beer, the IPA craze is getting completely out of hand.
posted by schmod at 7:16 AM on May 16, 2013 [3 favorites]

PS You know there is such a thing as too much hops, right?

I am afraid that American craft brewers (and vineyards) easily fall into the sort of thinking that has made cat and dog breeders so pernicious. Everything needs to be turned to 11, so we get dogs with eyes that won't close, cats with faces so smooshed they are negative space, beers that might as well be a bottle of boiled hops, and wines equally unbalanced. Next, I predict a mania for balance, that will lead to everything tasting the same....
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:17 AM on May 16, 2013

Well but then we get synthesis and everyone wins, right? If we're being Hegelian about it?
posted by clavicle at 7:54 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also, when talking about hops, could we please acknowledge that hops can add flavor, bitterness, or aroma, depending on when you put them in the boil? Something like Alesmith IPA might be "hoppy", but it's not bitter at all because the vast majority of the hops are put in with only 15 minutes left, so it really tastes nothing at all like a high-IBU beer like Stone Ruination.
posted by IjonTichy at 7:55 AM on May 16, 2013

Also, Redfield, are you a supertaster?
posted by clavicle at 7:56 AM on May 16, 2013

Speaking of hops ... if you haven't had Stone's latest Enjoy By, it "expires" tomorrow, and it's killer. I happened to be in San Diego a few months ago and had the 4.1.13, and it was "just alright," even at the brewery, but for some reason, the 5.17.13 is really something special (even though I think it's supposed to be the same beer at each release).
posted by uncleozzy at 8:18 AM on May 16, 2013

Heh. It's funny because in America and other New World brewing regions, we really are new kids on the block and going nuts. That's a good thing though. It's not Germany - we don't have Reinheitsgebot (600 year old law concerning purity of ingredients) and that's a good thing for us. You can stick with old world countries for the purity of tradition and calmness, where the craziest new thing is using New Zealand hops. In America, you can get stuff like the Dogfish Head Positive Contact:

Named after a key track on the first album, Positive Contact is a 9% ABV hybrid of beer and cider brewed with Fuji apples, roasted farro, a handful of cayenne peppers and a late dose of fresh cilantro. This sweet-and-sour Belgian-ish brew is a light straw color with fruity, cider-like notes. The cayenne and alcohol give it a warming finish.

For the inaugural release (2012), the beer was packaged in a dynamic box set of six 750-ml champagne bottles, with a 10-inch vinyl EP of four new Deltron 3030 remixes created exclusively for this project, and a list of Deltron 3030-inspired recipes from a small group of renowned chefs.

That said, the obsession with hops is basically over, so don't worry. We've made beers as bitter and as strong as you can make them at this point. The new focus for the next while will be on sour / funky beers, so go ahead and gird your loins for American style weirdness soon.

Side note - Lindemans Framboise is....well....not a great lambic. Lambics aren't really supposed to be sweet as all fuck. And the Lindemans in particular is sweetened, which kinda ruins the whole goddamn point of a lambic to begin with! They are usually spontaneously fermented, and then aged for a long time in a multitude of ways, blended and combined in proportions to get the desired flavor, and they are supposed to be dry and cider-y and sour and complex. Lindemans Framboise is like the Mike's Hard Lemonade of lambics.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:19 AM on May 16, 2013

It seems to be down at the moment. Mirrors, anyone?
posted by NoraReed at 8:41 AM on May 16, 2013

For those of us who like other kinds of beer, the IPA craze is getting completely out of hand.

I'm a big IPA fan and I think it's way out-of-hand, too. Doubly-so in that calling a brew an IPA seems to give license to the brewer to simply dump tons of hops in and call it a day. Sometimes, there's scant little "craft" being displayed by a lot of craft brewers.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:50 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

It does seem that sours are the new hotness slash way of saving a bad batch, and man, I could not be happier about this development.

I think anyone who likes Lindeman's should try a Rodenbach.
posted by clavicle at 8:58 AM on May 16, 2013

I need to learn to not read beer things or look at beer stuff online. People are just so close to being correct but they're also not quite there yet. Lambics don't need acidic water they are fermented with a variation of wild yeast and lactobacilii bacteria, which in turn make the beer sour/acidic. You don't boil the grains yousteep them at certain temperatures depending on the mouthfeel and types of sugars you want to get. If you just boiled the grains the enzymes would denature and you wouldn't have many sugars to ferment.

Hops and hoppiness isn't the only major trend in craft brewing, and the reason it is so popular is that it is easy to do and people like it. Also it being easy to do is also very easy to do wrongly and you get beers that taste like freshly cut grass with a twist of lemon, but a finely crafted megahoppy beer with the correct malt balance is a thing of beauty, but it will knock you kn your ass because it is going to have to be strong to counteract the hops.

Back when I was brewing I would do some extreme beers, but I woudn't ever make an extreme IPA, because they were widely enough available so I could just get some in bottles. Instead I made a double hefewiezen (but not with the banana and clovey yeast I used a cleaner fermenting yeast that made it crisp and went well with the citrusy cascades I put into it (only 5 oz per 5 gallon batch added at 3 different times to give a rounder flavor profile)) or my blackforest gateau barleywine made with blackcherry juice in the secondary to make a nice balanced sweetish beer with a medium cherry tart finish but sweet initial taste and hints of chocolate and coffee from the pound of dark roast malts I added for color and flavor. I still can't find a decent berry porter even though those flavors work very well together.
posted by koolkat at 9:04 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

So, let's say I like my beer bone-dry (meaning that I generally don't care for most browns, non-dry stouts, and underattenuated Belgians). Where do I start with sours?
posted by uncleozzy at 9:10 AM on May 16, 2013

Where do I start with sours?

Try Rodenbach, which is probably the most wildly available sour beer. Also try the various Boon beers.
posted by MartinWisse at 9:41 AM on May 16, 2013

koolkat: wholeheartedly agree. I am happy about the introduction of new hop varietals lately though! The sorachi in particular is delightful. Nice and lemony, crisp, refreshing IPAs are making good use of these.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:08 AM on May 16, 2013

People interested in a quality combination of Old World styles re imagined with American creativity should check out Lost Abbey. They are a subset of Port Brewing, and so far can do no wrong in my opinion.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:10 AM on May 16, 2013

Where do I start with sours?

Start small and share. I like sours, but even so a whole bottle gets tiresome for me after a glass or two. In bars, they tend to serve it in smaller glass which works out well... although very expensive.
posted by smackfu at 10:12 AM on May 16, 2013

Flemish Reds are my current favorite in the sour / funky category. Cuvée des Jacobins Rouge is a decent place to start.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:14 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Oh my goodness koolkat I want to drink both of those things.

My understanding is that banana/clovey flavor is more of a wit quality than a hefeweizen thing, is that right?

And I too would love a berry porter. I swear I had a sample of a Sprecher Generation Porter once that tasted, in an awesome way, like raspberry Tootsie Pops -- but it was the tail end of a beerfest in the middle of February so I maaaaaaaay have been intoxicated, and I have never seen it since.

lazaruslong, word, I feel like knowing what different hop varieties taste like is the way to escape the hoppy/malty dichotomy people get stuck in, and tasting new ones is super fun. I can't stand Sorachi Ace hops myself, but it turns out I love Citra.

uncleozzy, my pick for a gateway dry sour I think would be Duchesse de Bourgogne.

ugh OK SO READY FOR HAPPY HOUR NOW.
posted by clavicle at 10:18 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

I hear ya! I'm a fan of citra also, and unfortunately not a massive fan of Cascade. Sorry, West Coast.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:23 AM on May 16, 2013

(Now that I'm looking at the actual link...yeah, I would love to have hop and malt varieties as a browsable facet in this thing but I see how that would be really difficult to even get that information consistently, whereas it was super easy to include pumpkin.)
posted by clavicle at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2013

Thanks for the suggestions. My local keeps one sour on tap at a time (looks like right now it's Liefmans Goudenband), but I've never bothered because of the price. It's the one beer they "don't" pour tastes of, because it's pricey I suppose, but I know that "my" bartender would let me have a sip on the house if I smiled sweetly.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:51 AM on May 16, 2013

This particular tool doesn't seem very helpful, but I'm glad to know about Beer Advocate in general. If you want to find beers you might like, just look up the beer on Beer Advocate and then click on the style or tags to see similar beers. Much easier than this weird unreadable Beer Viz circle.

We're all super excited you've finally got the whole beer thing, we really are, but good god just chill will you?

"Americans, why do you have to be so enthusiastic about things? You are the worst."
posted by mokin at 11:15 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

unfortunately not a massive fan of Cascade. Sorry, West Coast.

I generally blame Sierra Nevada. Their APA is ubiquitous ("Yeah sure we have craft beers! You want Sierra Nevada or Fat Tire?") and all I can ever taste in their beers is Cascade. It's really overpowering. As a young adult I thought I didn't like beer--turns out I didn't like all of the Cascade-laden semi-local beers that you tend to get at college-age parties on the West Coast.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:38 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

The sours that have been mentioned for uncleozzy so far are all delicious, but I think of them as being very sweet sours - I mean, not like Lindeman's tastes-like-candy sweet, but there's still a lot of sugar in them. They're like drinking super-delicious vinegar - very sour, but with a lot of sweetness underneath.

If you have an adventurous palate, I'd go with a Cantillon or a Hanssens for a sour beer with minimal sweetness - though admittedly those are more challenging things to drink because they're all about the funk. If you want to start somewhere a little more gentle, Jolly Pumpkin beers are all lightly sour in a way that tends more toward funk than sweetness.
posted by jessypie at 11:51 AM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Best sour beer I've ever had though is this one: Undressed bordeaux Flemish red sour ale which was aged on Bordeaux casks and had that rich, full wine flavour going for it.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:13 PM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh, that's great, the beer I disliked is very similar to one I've never heard of. Very helpful!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:44 PM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

MartinWisse: yes! I'm a big of of wine barrel aged beers lately.

Of course, the somewhat humorous American version of this trend are the Dogfish Head hybrids. Midas Touch, Raison D'être, and the new 61, which is basically the 60 with Syrah grape must from California. The story is that Sam Calagione would always have the 60 around for his friends, and grew fond of just pouring a little wine in their glasses. So they made this one. We are getting it at work soon, I'll report back when I have a chance to taste.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:04 PM on May 16, 2013

Another favorite in that vein: Nebraska Brewing Company Melange a Trois. Big, 10% Belgian-Style Blond Ale that is put in French oak Chardonnay barrels for six months. It is fucking delicious. Really weird that one of the best and most expensive beers we've had at the restaurant is from Nebraska, but hey, whatever works.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:13 PM on May 16, 2013

Goofyy: "boo radley: abbey beers are not lambic. They are wonderful, but not lambic. "

This is a fair enough point, and I don't disagree with you.

Anoplura, however, said that he found a framboise beer tasty. If that's the case, I bet he'd like most lambics, too. I don't know why this this Beerviz thing would lump a framboise in with abbey beers the way it seems to have. Or indeed, why it's missing Guldendraak.
posted by boo_radley at 2:20 PM on May 16, 2013

lazaruslong: "Lindemans Framboise is like the Mike's Hard Lemonade of lambics."

I had no idea. I've never had that brand, but that's the worst possible endorsement.
posted by boo_radley at 2:23 PM on May 16, 2013

I have to say that although I find most of Lindemans offerings to be cloying and icky, I rather enjoy the pomme/apple. It's not an Actual Lambic by any sense of the imagination, but it's a pretty tasty beverage.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:24 PM on May 16, 2013

Aren't most lambics basically terrible beers? I know the style can be better but practically it's like wine coolers.
posted by smackfu at 4:02 PM on May 16, 2013

You're thinking of non-traditional sweetened lambics like Lindemans.

Traditionally they're more dry and sour because of the fermentation from Brettanomyces. The process is pretty interesting actually. Open vats! Open windows! Come feed on our beer, wild yeasties!
posted by elsietheeel at 5:21 PM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Lindeman's actually has some decent offerings once you get away from the fruit juice beers - the Gueuze Cuvée René is solid, and the Faro is good (ridiculously sweet, but that's the style). And I really can't hate on their fruit lambics too much because they're so often a gateway beer for people who think they don't like beer. Everybody has to start somewhere!
posted by jessypie at 7:21 PM on May 16, 2013 [2 favorites]

Well said. I certainly don't intend to Yuck anyone's Yum. Like what you like, and make no apologies! In my opinion, Lindeman's should just market their fruit lambics under a different name. I only meant to make distinction between theirs and other heavily post-brewing sweetened lambics, and the traditional style. They're so different that they aren't even in the same category, in my opinion.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:28 PM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]

clavicle: Also, Redfield, are you a supertaster?

I don't know? I just tend to find all of the beer I've tried to be unbearably bitter, as in, I can't even force myself to drink more than maybe three sips (kind of like black coffee). I don't think I even finished the Framboise, because it was still very bitter, it just happened to also have a strong fruity flavor and the tartness seemed to help a bit with the bitterness, so I was able to drink about half of it. Someone convinced me to actually try a Bud Light Chelada (which sounded god-awful) because "you can't even taste the beer". Bullshit! It tasted like V8 and tarmac. Same with the Tecate Michelada. I'm not even going to comment on the unpleasantness of Newcastle (a website said it was a "good beginner beer").

I kind of have the palate of a teenage girl, though. I once bought a bottle of almond champagne, and then mixed it with a ton of sugar so I could actually drink it. The only wine I like is moscato (specifically, Cupcake Moscato D'Asti) and plum. Maybe my tongue never grew up.
posted by Redfield at 2:48 AM on May 17, 2013

Redfield: The only wine I like is moscato (specifically, Cupcake Moscato D'Asti) and plum. Maybe my tongue never grew up.
Try Electra Moscato Orange.

All this beer talk has me craving another Amsterdam meetup...
posted by knile at 8:02 AM on May 17, 2013

Wow, that is intense! I guess only the little test strips can really tell you for sure, but I would bet serious money that you are indeed a supertaster. Like, I don't perceive any bitterness in Framboise at all and Newcastle, to me, is mild to the point of boring.

Interesting that you describe it as the palate of a teenage girl, considering that the rate of supertaster-ness is 35% among women and 15% among men. For sure it's a cultural thing -- girly drinks, obviously a social construct -- but there's something to it biologically too.
posted by clavicle at 8:14 AM on May 17, 2013

Aren't most lambics basically terrible beers?

They don't have to be, but considering they're made with wild, uncontrolled yeasts there's perhaps more room for error than with more controlled beers. It's also a regional beer, so may get worse when tried elsewhere and a beer that needs to age. The better lambic based beers (gueuze, kriek, faro) mix aged lambic in with young lambic.
posted by MartinWisse at 10:39 AM on May 17, 2013

I'm pretty sure all traditional lambics are blended. To my recollection, there are only 13 or so actual lambic breweries, and of those only 5-6 actually brew. The rest are blenders.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:39 AM on May 17, 2013