Being Dumb
July 27, 2013 1:44 PM Subscribe
Poet Kenneth Goldsmith writes in praise of dumb art.
Kenny G. was also on the Colbert Report.
posted by idiopath at 2:24 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 2:24 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well, that was smart. SMRT
I'm not sure exactly what that author was trying to say, except that things generally recognized as good art in the past 50 years (Warhol, punk rock, Cage's 4'33") are indeed good art. "Dumb is post-smart," is a phrase that says absolutely nothing.
But, in an attempt to get into the world-view of this essay, I have to point out that without smart smart and dumb dumb, smart dumb would never exist. You need Yes and Rush for Black Flag and the Dead Kennedys to rebel against.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:25 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure exactly what that author was trying to say, except that things generally recognized as good art in the past 50 years (Warhol, punk rock, Cage's 4'33") are indeed good art. "Dumb is post-smart," is a phrase that says absolutely nothing.
But, in an attempt to get into the world-view of this essay, I have to point out that without smart smart and dumb dumb, smart dumb would never exist. You need Yes and Rush for Black Flag and the Dead Kennedys to rebel against.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:25 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
I wonder where he transcribed this from. Maybe someone's sophomore journal?
posted by idiopath at 2:35 PM on July 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 2:35 PM on July 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
This was excellent. And illuminating. And now we get to have fun watching other MeFites compete to play Miss The Point, which is always what happens when Goldsmith shows up on the Blue.
The Christian Bok diss was excellent, and much-deserved. Bok's Eunoia collection is a cause of much consternation for me.
posted by Rory Marinich at 2:45 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
The Christian Bok diss was excellent, and much-deserved. Bok's Eunoia collection is a cause of much consternation for me.
posted by Rory Marinich at 2:45 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yes, but if you read it, you'll see that by being "dumb" he really means being smart, just not smart like the (other) try-hards are smart.
Dumb dumb is Microsoft, Disney, and Spielberg.
Ha ha! We don't want to be actually dumb (odd list for actually dumb, though) …
Smart smart is TED talks, think tanks, NPR news, Ivy League universities, The New Yorker, and expensive five-star restaurants. By trying so hard, smart smart really misses the point.
TED talks? No thanks!
Smart dumb is The Fugs, punk rock, art schools, Gertrude Stein, Vito Acconci, Marcel Duchamp, Samuel Beckett, Seth Price, Tao Lin, Martin Margiela, Mike Kelley, and Sofia Coppola. Smart dumb plays at being dumb dumb but knows better.
(a) If I were Duchamp, the Fugs, the Gang of Four, or Samuel Beckett, I would object quote a bit to being in a list with Tao Lin and Sofia Coppola.
(b) Tao Lin, art school, Sofia Coppola? "plays at being dumb dumb but knows better", i.e. "smart, but still cool, man!!!"? Speaking for myself, no thanks again.
Too bad he doesn't describe dumb smart: it might have a shot at not being insufferable.
Far from Kenny G's best work.
posted by kenko at 2:54 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Dumb dumb is Microsoft, Disney, and Spielberg.
Ha ha! We don't want to be actually dumb (odd list for actually dumb, though) …
Smart smart is TED talks, think tanks, NPR news, Ivy League universities, The New Yorker, and expensive five-star restaurants. By trying so hard, smart smart really misses the point.
TED talks? No thanks!
Smart dumb is The Fugs, punk rock, art schools, Gertrude Stein, Vito Acconci, Marcel Duchamp, Samuel Beckett, Seth Price, Tao Lin, Martin Margiela, Mike Kelley, and Sofia Coppola. Smart dumb plays at being dumb dumb but knows better.
(a) If I were Duchamp, the Fugs, the Gang of Four, or Samuel Beckett, I would object quote a bit to being in a list with Tao Lin and Sofia Coppola.
(b) Tao Lin, art school, Sofia Coppola? "plays at being dumb dumb but knows better", i.e. "smart, but still cool, man!!!"? Speaking for myself, no thanks again.
Too bad he doesn't describe dumb smart: it might have a shot at not being insufferable.
Far from Kenny G's best work.
posted by kenko at 2:54 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Dumb smart is the cowboy character from The Big Lebowski, the Magical Negro, the multi millionaire yokel with a huge smooth jazz record collection and signed Thomas Kinkaid originals on his walls.
posted by idiopath at 3:02 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by idiopath at 3:02 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hey, I live near the Marfa Prada! Since becoming aware of it, I've sort of wondered whether it's a very clever deliberate contrast made by dropping a symbol of opulent luxury in the middle of a region of extreme impoverishment or whether the artists themselves are out of touch and privilege soaked. Either way, I like that it's there.
I really don't like "smart that plays at being dumb," because often it's vacuity cloaked in complexity without anything sincere to say about being alive and human; and therefore kind of useless. What was the quasi-immortal poem written in DNA about, I wonder?
posted by byanyothername at 3:10 PM on July 27, 2013
I really don't like "smart that plays at being dumb," because often it's vacuity cloaked in complexity without anything sincere to say about being alive and human; and therefore kind of useless. What was the quasi-immortal poem written in DNA about, I wonder?
posted by byanyothername at 3:10 PM on July 27, 2013
The Christian Bok diss was excellent, and much-deserved. Bok's Eunoia collection is a cause of much consternation for me.
we need to go deeper
posted by juv3nal at 3:11 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
we need to go deeper
posted by juv3nal at 3:11 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
This is all a bunch of hand-waving to distract the author from the implacable weight of mediocrity. Neither smart nor dumb. Just beige.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:16 PM on July 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:16 PM on July 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
And now we get to have fun watching other MeFites compete to play Miss The Point, which is always what happens when Goldsmith shows up on the Blue.
Or perhaps you could save us all the trouble and just Explain The Point, since you seem to be in the know.
posted by Doleful Creature at 3:20 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Or perhaps you could save us all the trouble and just Explain The Point, since you seem to be in the know.
posted by Doleful Creature at 3:20 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am here to announce that I am in the planning stages of a new conceptual work. I intend to tweet all my old comments in a univocalic style. I see this as a synthesis of smart smart, dumb smart, and dumb dumb.
As you may know, my previous work, buying all the sunflower seeds from the Tate modern and planting them in a field outside Marfa Texas, did not go as planned. But I believe my latest work will be just as exciting and dumb yet smart.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:24 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
As you may know, my previous work, buying all the sunflower seeds from the Tate modern and planting them in a field outside Marfa Texas, did not go as planned. But I believe my latest work will be just as exciting and dumb yet smart.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:24 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Bok's Eunoia collection is a cause of much consternation for me.
Because it's just TOO AWESOME?!
posted by kenko at 3:36 PM on July 27, 2013
Because it's just TOO AWESOME?!
posted by kenko at 3:36 PM on July 27, 2013
(I don't know what Goldsmith's best work is but I bet it includes his reading of the opening sections of the Philosophical Investigations to the tune of Le sacre du printemps. No, I don't know why I translated one title but not the other.)
posted by kenko at 3:38 PM on July 27, 2013
posted by kenko at 3:38 PM on July 27, 2013
we need to go deeper
Christian Bok called me a dumb-dumb - sweet.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:41 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Christian Bok called me a dumb-dumb - sweet.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:41 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't worry guys, I got your back.
An Internet beef with a renowned poet has been on my to-do lost for a while, I think it would help hype both our works.
Can't wait till this breaks on TMZ.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:47 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
An Internet beef with a renowned poet has been on my to-do lost for a while, I think it would help hype both our works.
Can't wait till this breaks on TMZ.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:47 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Kenny G. was also on the Colbert Report.
Colbert is very very good at his shtick because Goldsmith does get mad without really having explained the value and purpose of his work.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:52 PM on July 27, 2013
Colbert is very very good at his shtick because Goldsmith does get mad without really having explained the value and purpose of his work.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:52 PM on July 27, 2013
"Smart that plays at being dumb" often turns out to be "playing at being dumb in the hopes that no one will detect actually being dumb." Smart is in some sense verifiable. Playing at being dumb leaves room for doubt, which can quite easily go either way.
On the other hand it's a lot more entertaining than dumb that plays at being smart, e.g. all but maybe two or three Sunday Morning television commentators who ever lived.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:59 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
On the other hand it's a lot more entertaining than dumb that plays at being smart, e.g. all but maybe two or three Sunday Morning television commentators who ever lived.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:59 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Some of Goldsmith's poetry can be found here at ubu.com, a site that Goldsmith maintains.
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 4:09 PM on July 27, 2013
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 4:09 PM on July 27, 2013
Eventually our two element dumb / smart schema will run out of usefulness.
We can seamlessly transition into an extra dimension, thus doubling our available smart / dumb states.
We can seamlessly transition into an extra dimension, thus doubling our available smart / dumb states.
Dumb Dumb Dumb Larry, Curly Dumb Dumb Smart Moe Dumb Smart Dumb Wile E. Cyote Dumb Smart Smart Bond Villian Smart Dumb Dumb John Lydon Smart Dumb Smart David Byrne Smart Smart Smart Doogie Howser, M.D.posted by idiopath at 4:11 PM on July 27, 2013 [6 favorites]
I forgot Smart Smart Dumb.
posted by idiopath at 4:12 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 4:12 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
I forgot Smart Smart Dumb.
Coming up with the list and then forgetting Smart Smart Dumb.
posted by darksasami at 4:14 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Coming up with the list and then forgetting Smart Smart Dumb.
posted by darksasami at 4:14 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Kenneth Goldsmith, or: Modern Polonius.
From this point forth, unless specified, when I say dumb, I will mean smart dumb.
It was at this point that I began to lose faith in the usefulness and integrity of the theme.
posted by clockzero at 4:25 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
From this point forth, unless specified, when I say dumb, I will mean smart dumb.
It was at this point that I began to lose faith in the usefulness and integrity of the theme.
posted by clockzero at 4:25 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
The thing is he's right to say that many of the things he does, a dummy could do. Copying all of the Times? You could be stupid and do that. That's true! Suggesting that there's value in that kind of mechanical act just as it is would actually be pretty radical and refreshing, if it were done well.
But he doesn't seem to think there's value in that kind of act, just as it is. It's not enough to copy the Times; you have to have your inner states properly aligned—you have to be doing this apparently kind of dumb, mechanical thing for smart, spiritual reasons—then it's worthwhile.
This attitude is, oddly, exactly the kind of Romantic piffle you'd think someone like Goldsmith, or anyone who is both intelligent and interested in Duchamp, would decry. (Everyone gets the importance of Fountain and the readymades wrong—except me!) It's the apotheosis of the "it doesn't matter what I do; I'm doing it" artist-as-sage attitude.
posted by kenko at 5:03 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
But he doesn't seem to think there's value in that kind of act, just as it is. It's not enough to copy the Times; you have to have your inner states properly aligned—you have to be doing this apparently kind of dumb, mechanical thing for smart, spiritual reasons—then it's worthwhile.
This attitude is, oddly, exactly the kind of Romantic piffle you'd think someone like Goldsmith, or anyone who is both intelligent and interested in Duchamp, would decry. (Everyone gets the importance of Fountain and the readymades wrong—except me!) It's the apotheosis of the "it doesn't matter what I do; I'm doing it" artist-as-sage attitude.
posted by kenko at 5:03 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
"Called names by Christian Bok on Twitter" is going on my resume.
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:04 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:04 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Kenneth Goldsmith, or: Modern Polonius.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be; dumb smart advice for a smart dumb audience that would really rather be watching Pacific Rim?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:10 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Neither a borrower nor a lender be; dumb smart advice for a smart dumb audience that would really rather be watching Pacific Rim?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:10 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have to admit, Rory, I didn't know what you meant when you said KG dissed Bök.
posted by kenko at 5:12 PM on July 27, 2013
posted by kenko at 5:12 PM on July 27, 2013
Coming up with the list and then forgetting Smart Smart Dumb.
And misspelling "villain". Sorry.
posted by kenko at 5:15 PM on July 27, 2013
And misspelling "villain". Sorry.
posted by kenko at 5:15 PM on July 27, 2013
"Diss" wasn't the right word. But it was close enough for my liking.
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:18 PM on July 27, 2013
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:18 PM on July 27, 2013
Hey, I live near the Marfa Prada! Since becoming aware of it, I've sort of wondered whether it's a very clever deliberate contrast made by dropping a symbol of opulent luxury in the middle of a region of extreme impoverishment or whether the artists themselves are out of touch and privilege soaked. Either way, I like that it's there.
To me, it seems likely that the Marfa Prada was created to be somewhat in conversation with Donald Judd's Chinati Foundation in Marfa, of works (mostly by high-status abstract sculptors) intended to be occupying their own spaces far outside the commercial/gallery and museum frameworks. The Marfa Prada responds to that by bringing a very Judd-like framing to a symbol of the status-seeking commercial excess Judd can be considered to have been attempting to escape. So, is it saying sorry, there is no escape after all, or is it critiqueing the Chinati project by pointing at the fact that in other contexts works by these same artists are high-status collectibles not unlike Prada merchandise, or is it extending the Chinati project by encapsulating and thereby disempowering Prada and high-status branding generally at what is no doubt the least profitable Prada outlet in the world?
I do like the additional point you make of the juxtaposition of this high-culture, expensive phenomenon with a lot of surrounding poverty, which is a sort of weird thing about the Marfa fine arts community generally. Judd created a strange sort of gentrification there, for sure.
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 7:13 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
To me, it seems likely that the Marfa Prada was created to be somewhat in conversation with Donald Judd's Chinati Foundation in Marfa, of works (mostly by high-status abstract sculptors) intended to be occupying their own spaces far outside the commercial/gallery and museum frameworks. The Marfa Prada responds to that by bringing a very Judd-like framing to a symbol of the status-seeking commercial excess Judd can be considered to have been attempting to escape. So, is it saying sorry, there is no escape after all, or is it critiqueing the Chinati project by pointing at the fact that in other contexts works by these same artists are high-status collectibles not unlike Prada merchandise, or is it extending the Chinati project by encapsulating and thereby disempowering Prada and high-status branding generally at what is no doubt the least profitable Prada outlet in the world?
I do like the additional point you make of the juxtaposition of this high-culture, expensive phenomenon with a lot of surrounding poverty, which is a sort of weird thing about the Marfa fine arts community generally. Judd created a strange sort of gentrification there, for sure.
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 7:13 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Neither a borrower nor a lender be; dumb smart advice for a smart dumb audience that would really rather be watching Pacific Rim?
More matter and less art, as the lady said.
posted by clockzero at 8:02 PM on July 27, 2013
More matter and less art, as the lady said.
posted by clockzero at 8:02 PM on July 27, 2013
How long would it take to print out all the dumb on the internet?
posted by munchingzombie at 11:04 PM on July 27, 2013
posted by munchingzombie at 11:04 PM on July 27, 2013
What if we just started doing shit?
What if we just started contributing to the randomness of the world?
What if we just started poking? Like, with sticks and stuff?
What if we just said ENOUGH
Sorry I'm high
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:10 AM on July 28, 2013
What if we just started contributing to the randomness of the world?
What if we just started poking? Like, with sticks and stuff?
What if we just said ENOUGH
Sorry I'm high
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:10 AM on July 28, 2013
munchingzombie: if we keep trying, we can make it take a few moments longer
posted by idiopath at 5:39 AM on July 28, 2013
posted by idiopath at 5:39 AM on July 28, 2013
Short version: I am a genius.
posted by snaparapans at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2013
posted by snaparapans at 6:29 AM on July 28, 2013
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The problem with "smart dumb", as the author calls it, is that it comes down to individual's aesthetic judgements so you inevitably end up with a movement where everyone considers themselves the really smart dumb and everyone else the dumb dumb or smart smart.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 2:08 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]