Hello Dave
August 11, 2013 9:43 AM Subscribe
Dave Bowman meets Papa Lazarou. (slyt)
I fear this may be confusing for many American Mefites. This is a local joke for local people.
posted by Decani at 10:09 AM on August 11, 2013 [22 favorites]
posted by Decani at 10:09 AM on August 11, 2013 [22 favorites]
Also, I fear another "blackface" discussion, god help us all.
posted by Decani at 10:10 AM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Decani at 10:10 AM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
We'd want no trouble here.
posted by MartinWisse at 10:10 AM on August 11, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by MartinWisse at 10:10 AM on August 11, 2013 [6 favorites]
omfg so hilarious
posted by Foci for Analysis at 10:12 AM on August 11, 2013
posted by Foci for Analysis at 10:12 AM on August 11, 2013
well, now i know about something i didn't know about before...
posted by ennui.bz at 10:26 AM on August 11, 2013
posted by ennui.bz at 10:26 AM on August 11, 2013
Do not seek explanations of Papa Lazarou, Papa Lazarou just is. If you are lucky he might just go away. Pray for that, even though his existance proves the universe a cold and godless place.
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is a local joke for local people.
You lied to me, Edward! There is a Swansea!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:32 AM on August 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
You lied to me, Edward! There is a Swansea!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:32 AM on August 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
This is from League of Gentlemen, right? Oh lord help me that show
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:33 AM on August 11, 2013
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:33 AM on August 11, 2013
I love League of Gentlemen but my invariable reaction on watching it is a potent blend of intense formless dread and anxiety. Calling it black humor doesn't even begin to touch the fringes of its impact.
posted by winna at 10:45 AM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by winna at 10:45 AM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's such a hard show to explain to people. "Comedy Set In A Hammer Horror Universe " doesn;t quite cover it.
I might just say "If Night Vale was a British sit-com."
posted by The Whelk at 10:56 AM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
I might just say "If Night Vale was a British sit-com."
posted by The Whelk at 10:56 AM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh God. I just checked, and it turns out that I'm his wife now.
posted by Decani at 11:04 AM on August 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by Decani at 11:04 AM on August 11, 2013 [8 favorites]
It's such a hard show to explain to people. "Comedy Set In A Hammer Horror Universe " doesn;t quite cover it.
I might just say "If Night Vale was a British sit-com."
Thank you. when the arrival of league of gentlemen dvds causes questions at my home I will point them to your comment.
posted by oneear at 11:26 AM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I might just say "If Night Vale was a British sit-com."
Thank you. when the arrival of league of gentlemen dvds causes questions at my home I will point them to your comment.
posted by oneear at 11:26 AM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
At first I was like RACIST but then I was like NOPE JUST TERRIFYING
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:38 AM on August 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:38 AM on August 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
You're my wife now, Dave.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 11:56 AM on August 11, 2013
posted by GallonOfAlan at 11:56 AM on August 11, 2013
Now come on, Potomac Avenue. Terrifying? Nonsense. This is the comedy of cosiness, safe places, easy laughs and pleasant dreams.
Probably.
posted by Decani at 12:03 PM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Probably.
posted by Decani at 12:03 PM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sorry Decani. Your silencing tactics will not work. :-)
We should have that blackface conversation here.
Because, unlike MartinWisse, I'm struggling to see how this kind of blackface is more acceptable than Sinterklaas or Le Gala Les Oliver.
(Items picked at random from a google search)
I might be missing something obvious here, but barring the argument that "Papa Lazarou" isn't a racial stereotype but is instead a racist stereotype (i.e. the poorly named "ironic argument"), it would appear to me that if you're going to condemn any one of these examples then you should be condemning them all.
Help me out here, because honestly - this looks a lot like hypocrisy to me.
posted by zoo at 12:21 PM on August 11, 2013
We should have that blackface conversation here.
Because, unlike MartinWisse, I'm struggling to see how this kind of blackface is more acceptable than Sinterklaas or Le Gala Les Oliver.
(Items picked at random from a google search)
I might be missing something obvious here, but barring the argument that "Papa Lazarou" isn't a racial stereotype but is instead a racist stereotype (i.e. the poorly named "ironic argument"), it would appear to me that if you're going to condemn any one of these examples then you should be condemning them all.
Help me out here, because honestly - this looks a lot like hypocrisy to me.
posted by zoo at 12:21 PM on August 11, 2013
In my opinion, this character is a parody of naive European Zwarte Piet characters mixed with making fun of irrational British misunderstandings of Caribbean witchcraft. It's insane and probably offensive but by pointing out the weird evil of those kind of stereotypes its doing a pretty great anti-racist service. Is Wondershowzen racist? Anyway this show is way way off the air so any examination isn't really going to make a difference. Go protest Orange is The New Black instead. That shit is way dumber.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:31 PM on August 11, 2013
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:31 PM on August 11, 2013
Obviously blackface in the modern era is a horrific aboration that could not possibly exist and absolutely could not turn up on your doorstep and try and sell you pegs, because what the fuck?
Hence.
posted by Artw at 12:32 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hence.
posted by Artw at 12:32 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
There you go. Blackface is supposed to be funny, horror is supposed to be horrible. Blackface is horrible, so this works.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:40 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:40 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I might be missing something obvious here, but barring the argument that "Papa Lazarou" isn't a racial stereotype
You know who else are probably racist hypocrites?
TISM. That whole band all look a *lot* like Papa Lazarou to me.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:44 PM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
You know who else are probably racist hypocrites?
TISM. That whole band all look a *lot* like Papa Lazarou to me.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:44 PM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you've lived for any time in any smallish northenish British town then the League is basically a documentary.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:03 PM on August 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:03 PM on August 11, 2013 [4 favorites]
Oh Christ. Somebody went for it. I shouldn't be surprised.
Please, in the bowels of Christ I implore you, consider the possibility that there are some forms of humour you simply Do. Not. Get.
posted by Decani at 1:07 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Please, in the bowels of Christ I implore you, consider the possibility that there are some forms of humour you simply Do. Not. Get.
posted by Decani at 1:07 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's a British folklaw tradition that pre-dates modern blackface by many many years (although of course that doesn't mean it's not uncontroversial nowadays)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2013
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:13 PM on August 11, 2013
If you've lived for any time in any smallish northenish British town then the League is basically a documentary.
I was really amazed at how much rang true for my upbringing in small, rural Northeastern U.S. towns. Same with Father Ted.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:14 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was really amazed at how much rang true for my upbringing in small, rural Northeastern U.S. towns. Same with Father Ted.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:14 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
Besides, if you want to see a stinking argument, you'd tell them about Barbara Dixon.
posted by Grangousier at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
I get that it's funny Decani. I'm just struggling to understand why I get a pass on my blackface funnies, when other forms of Blackface are categorised as intolerable.
It's not just this. It's Precious from Come Fly With me and it's Rudi from The Mighty Boosh.
For every offensive thing I'm cool enough to get away with, there a Greek woman being pilloried for dressing up as Stevie Wonder.
I loved this show, but I don't understand the hypocrisy.
posted by zoo at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2013
It's not just this. It's Precious from Come Fly With me and it's Rudi from The Mighty Boosh.
For every offensive thing I'm cool enough to get away with, there a Greek woman being pilloried for dressing up as Stevie Wonder.
I loved this show, but I don't understand the hypocrisy.
posted by zoo at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2013
Blackface in the USA is objectively worse than other places because it represents a continuous tradition of social exclusion that has not yet disappeared. In other places it's just an offensive racial caricature, like someone dressing up with a hooked nose or a Fu Manchu costume or whatever. It's sufficiently bad, but it's not the nuclear weaponry of bad behavior.
Papa Lazarou is meant to make you uneasy, like most of the humour in The League of Gentlemen. He is out of context - you have this very stylised makeup but he's not on stage, he's at your front door. He's an obvious caricature but he presents as though his appearance is normal. He implies that he is a Gypsy (which has nothing to do with blackface, so this is a further move out of context) but his name and other behaviour is meant to seem like West Indian mysticism: voodoo. So his appearance and his presentation keep us off balance. This is what he does in the show, too: he makes odd requests, and when people agree he asserts "you're my wife now" or whatever. Why? Who knows: it's frightening and funny because we don't know what to expect. We're not laughing at him; we're tittering nervously.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:11 PM on August 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
Papa Lazarou is meant to make you uneasy, like most of the humour in The League of Gentlemen. He is out of context - you have this very stylised makeup but he's not on stage, he's at your front door. He's an obvious caricature but he presents as though his appearance is normal. He implies that he is a Gypsy (which has nothing to do with blackface, so this is a further move out of context) but his name and other behaviour is meant to seem like West Indian mysticism: voodoo. So his appearance and his presentation keep us off balance. This is what he does in the show, too: he makes odd requests, and when people agree he asserts "you're my wife now" or whatever. Why? Who knows: it's frightening and funny because we don't know what to expect. We're not laughing at him; we're tittering nervously.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:11 PM on August 11, 2013 [3 favorites]
The next Great Metafilter Enspousening will be so much easier because you're all his wife now, Dave.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:59 PM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by obiwanwasabi at 8:59 PM on August 11, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, I fear another "blackface" discussion, god help us all.
Papa Lazerou transcends blackface.
posted by mattoxic at 10:58 PM on August 11, 2013
Papa Lazerou transcends blackface.
posted by mattoxic at 10:58 PM on August 11, 2013
I might be missing something obvious here, but barring the argument that "Papa Lazarou" isn't a racial stereotype but is instead a racist stereotype (i.e. the poorly named "ironic argument"), it would appear to me that if you're going to condemn any one of these examples then you should be condemning them all.
It's meant to make you uncomfortable, it's meant to be offensive - I don't think it needs or wants defending
Like the Young One's -
That's white man's electrisity you're burining
Oh. Sorry, John. I thought you was a nigger.
(http://www.ulrikchristensen.dk/scripts/youngones/boring.htm)
You can be offended
posted by mattoxic at 11:09 PM on August 11, 2013 [1 favorite]
It was just a few days ago that I put together that Mark Gatiss that writes for and plays Mycroft in Sherlock was also in League of Gentlemen. Which is so cool.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:41 PM on August 11, 2013
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:41 PM on August 11, 2013
Because, unlike MartinWisse, I'm struggling to see how this kind of blackface is more acceptable than Sinterklaas or Le Gala Les Oliver.
Americans seem to take blackface really badly. Is that your slave-owning guilt?
It isn't always mean-spirited, and can be funny.
It usually isn't funny, but it isn't always wrong.
It was just a few days ago that I put together that Mark Gatiss that writes for and plays Mycroft in Sherlock was also in League of Gentlemen. Which is so cool.
DOCTOR WHO mention goes here.
posted by Mezentian at 6:10 AM on August 12, 2013
Americans seem to take blackface really badly. Is that your slave-owning guilt?
It isn't always mean-spirited, and can be funny.
It usually isn't funny, but it isn't always wrong.
It was just a few days ago that I put together that Mark Gatiss that writes for and plays Mycroft in Sherlock was also in League of Gentlemen. Which is so cool.
DOCTOR WHO mention goes here.
posted by Mezentian at 6:10 AM on August 12, 2013
DOCTOR WHO mention goes here.
neat! - I haven't been watching that, but clearly I should
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:56 PM on August 12, 2013
neat! - I haven't been watching that, but clearly I should
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:56 PM on August 12, 2013
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posted by clavdivs at 9:51 AM on August 11, 2013