Even a stopped clock...
August 12, 2013 9:55 AM Subscribe
"Spot checks and being demanded to show your papers by officialdom are not the British way of doing things. Yes, of course we want to deal with illegal immigration, but what's the point of rounding people up at railway stations if at the same time they're still flooding in through Dover and the other nearly hundred ports in this country.
I'm astonished that the Home Office has become so politicised that they're actually advertising 'another 10 arrested'. Before long they'll be live video-streaming these arrests. I don't like it. It really is not the way we've ever behaved or operated as a country. We don't have ID cards; we should not be stopped by officialdom and have to prove who we are." -- Even UKIP leader Nigel Farage thinks the home office goes too far with its politically motivated immigration raids at railway stations.
I'm astonished that the Home Office has become so politicised that they're actually advertising 'another 10 arrested'. Before long they'll be live video-streaming these arrests. I don't like it. It really is not the way we've ever behaved or operated as a country. We don't have ID cards; we should not be stopped by officialdom and have to prove who we are." -- Even UKIP leader Nigel Farage thinks the home office goes too far with its politically motivated immigration raids at railway stations.
I'm not sure UKIP is a great guide to anything. UKIP's manifesto policies are the wet dream of a particular type of Tory traditionalist who appear to have given up caring whether they make sense logically, politically or economically.
In this instance, privacy trumps immigration policy because it's expedient and because it's Farage's luxury to be able to hark back to a mythical, powerful, fair play Britain where rosy cheeked men play cricket on the village green while their wives prepare cream teas and even Johnny Foreigner gets a fair crack at playing British Bulldogs with the police.
UKIP's actual immigration policy vaguely states that "measures would be taken to identify illegal immigrants and remove them to their country of origin" although one suspects that for it be effective, a UKIP government would have to do similar and worse.
Such are the joys of being a protest vote party: you get to apply all the pressure and then sit back and criticise the means, the end, or both. Amusingly, and surely not without coincidence: the BNP and UKIP's main manifesto pledges look remarkably similar, with the exception that the BNP aren't swivel-eyed lunatics about climate change and actually back renewables and UKIP predictably thinks energy comes from magic, everlasting fairy dust because its typical member is over 60 and couldn't give a shit about what happens more than 30 years out, and doesn't want to pay for it.
posted by MuffinMan at 10:18 AM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
In this instance, privacy trumps immigration policy because it's expedient and because it's Farage's luxury to be able to hark back to a mythical, powerful, fair play Britain where rosy cheeked men play cricket on the village green while their wives prepare cream teas and even Johnny Foreigner gets a fair crack at playing British Bulldogs with the police.
UKIP's actual immigration policy vaguely states that "measures would be taken to identify illegal immigrants and remove them to their country of origin" although one suspects that for it be effective, a UKIP government would have to do similar and worse.
Such are the joys of being a protest vote party: you get to apply all the pressure and then sit back and criticise the means, the end, or both. Amusingly, and surely not without coincidence: the BNP and UKIP's main manifesto pledges look remarkably similar, with the exception that the BNP aren't swivel-eyed lunatics about climate change and actually back renewables and UKIP predictably thinks energy comes from magic, everlasting fairy dust because its typical member is over 60 and couldn't give a shit about what happens more than 30 years out, and doesn't want to pay for it.
posted by MuffinMan at 10:18 AM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
One of the common movie cliches when I was growing up was the suspicious German police officers in the movie stopping people on the street and demanding "Papers!"
Only the really scary police in oppressive countries looking to deport people or toss them in jail based on not having the right kind of "papers" did that.... Not so true today methinks.
posted by CrowGoat at 10:35 AM on August 12, 2013
Only the really scary police in oppressive countries looking to deport people or toss them in jail based on not having the right kind of "papers" did that.... Not so true today methinks.
posted by CrowGoat at 10:35 AM on August 12, 2013
MuffinMan--I was going to favorite your message until I got to the "over 60 and could not give a shit"actually it is 71% over age 50 and I am 71 and do give a shit. On the other hand I am a Democrat in the US, a Tory in the UK and I have not yet decided what I am in Ireland ( I am not sure they have figured out who they are). Regardless, it is always nice for for a Party/group/individual to claim victim status and take pot shots but offer no real solutions. Oh yeah, that the Republicans for the last 15-20 years and probably longer
posted by rmhsinc at 10:42 AM on August 12, 2013
posted by rmhsinc at 10:42 AM on August 12, 2013
The immigration spot checks and mobile poster campaign are a particularly unpleasant bit of politics, courtesy of the home secretary Theresa May - widely thought to be angling for the top job after the next election. This is her building up her 'tough enough to woo back the UKIP voters' play, based on the prediction that the Tories will fail to win next time due to UKIP splitting the right-wing vote.
Not only is this one of the nastiest moves in recent Tory history - and by god, there's stiff competition - but it's particularly cynical given that the Home Office has been notably failing in some other basic forms of immigration policy, like having any idea of numbers or indeed showing any ability to manage overstayers beyond this sort of quasi-racist nonsense.
Meanwhile, the wait for Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition to grow a spine and take the initiative in actually opposing this rancid bollockry is proving tiresome...
posted by Devonian at 10:53 AM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Not only is this one of the nastiest moves in recent Tory history - and by god, there's stiff competition - but it's particularly cynical given that the Home Office has been notably failing in some other basic forms of immigration policy, like having any idea of numbers or indeed showing any ability to manage overstayers beyond this sort of quasi-racist nonsense.
Meanwhile, the wait for Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition to grow a spine and take the initiative in actually opposing this rancid bollockry is proving tiresome...
posted by Devonian at 10:53 AM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is Labour actually doing anything in this? Or are they just as shit and pointless as the LibDems?
posted by Artw at 11:00 AM on August 12, 2013
posted by Artw at 11:00 AM on August 12, 2013
UKIP are the ones that are racist but not actually Nazis, EDL are the ones that are racist AND nazis, LibDems are invisible, and all Tories are wankers.
UKIP hate the EU and EU immigrants; they don't generally seem to mind brown people as such, as long as they know their place (and ideally come from an ex british colony).
The EDL hate muslims of any stripe, and the BNP just hate all brown people no matter how long they've lived here.
The tories loathe anyone that isn't already rich. Or lives north of Watford. And then blames them for the banking crisis. And the housing crisis. And everything else they can think of. Though it's rather sweet they can't tell the difference between child abuse and any website not suitable for a 5 year old. Hmm. Not sweet, the other thing. Incompetent, that was it.
The Lib Dems aren't invisible! They've done plenty of U-turns on their manifesto for that sweet, sweet opportunity to stand next to people who make the actual decisions and get to have the press actually turn up at their press conferences.
Labour seem to be the invisible ones at the moment. I'm trying to think of an actual Labour policy at the moment, and coming up blank. Unless you count pointing out that the Tories are trying to channel as much money to their rich chums as possible. Perhaps they're hoping we'll forget about the DNA database, ASBOs, ISP data collection ideas, RIP act and all the other powers they gave to the police that the Tories are using with abandon.
Problem is, they ALL seem to think a police state is a Great Idea. Even the Lib Dems it seems these days. Who the hell do you vote for when they're all
a) evil
b) liars
c) swivel-eyed loons
d) nazis
e) all of the above
Green Party, maybe? If they actually ran candidates in more than a handful of places. Sigh.
posted by ArkhanJG at 11:06 AM on August 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
UKIP hate the EU and EU immigrants; they don't generally seem to mind brown people as such, as long as they know their place (and ideally come from an ex british colony).
The EDL hate muslims of any stripe, and the BNP just hate all brown people no matter how long they've lived here.
The tories loathe anyone that isn't already rich. Or lives north of Watford. And then blames them for the banking crisis. And the housing crisis. And everything else they can think of. Though it's rather sweet they can't tell the difference between child abuse and any website not suitable for a 5 year old. Hmm. Not sweet, the other thing. Incompetent, that was it.
The Lib Dems aren't invisible! They've done plenty of U-turns on their manifesto for that sweet, sweet opportunity to stand next to people who make the actual decisions and get to have the press actually turn up at their press conferences.
Labour seem to be the invisible ones at the moment. I'm trying to think of an actual Labour policy at the moment, and coming up blank. Unless you count pointing out that the Tories are trying to channel as much money to their rich chums as possible. Perhaps they're hoping we'll forget about the DNA database, ASBOs, ISP data collection ideas, RIP act and all the other powers they gave to the police that the Tories are using with abandon.
Problem is, they ALL seem to think a police state is a Great Idea. Even the Lib Dems it seems these days. Who the hell do you vote for when they're all
a) evil
b) liars
c) swivel-eyed loons
d) nazis
e) all of the above
Green Party, maybe? If they actually ran candidates in more than a handful of places. Sigh.
posted by ArkhanJG at 11:06 AM on August 12, 2013 [3 favorites]
Apologies, rmhsinc, for the indelicacy. It obviously isn't the case that all over 60s don't care. But UKIP policies have a special appeal for those older voters who want to turn back time, and who appear to have no compunction about forcing debt or bad policy on future generations in their bid to get Bygone Britain. It is why their demographic skews older. Cases in point: their energy policy is short termist in outlook even if climate change could be ruinous long term, their policy of withdrawal from the EU is emotional and economically nuts, their prison policy amounts to not much more than lock up more young people to keep us safe and bugger the consequences for future generations.
posted by MuffinMan at 11:10 AM on August 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by MuffinMan at 11:10 AM on August 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
I keep reading UKIP as MUDKIP, which makes British politics even more hilarious than usual--and bear in mind that I'm saying this about a government that includes a man whose name is "Ed Balls".
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:11 AM on August 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:11 AM on August 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
MuffinMan--thanks for taking the time respond. I did a little checking. Interestingly, but not surprisingly UKIP, BNP and EDL have all age bases covered:
UKIP- 50 and above
BNP--35-50
EDL--16-25
Those between 25 and 40 are just to busy working, trying to find a job, raising children, avoiding children or paying off student debt ( I know, much lower in UK but still a problem). And I absolutely concur with your positions on the policies of UKIP. My Best
posted by rmhsinc at 11:16 AM on August 12, 2013
UKIP- 50 and above
BNP--35-50
EDL--16-25
Those between 25 and 40 are just to busy working, trying to find a job, raising children, avoiding children or paying off student debt ( I know, much lower in UK but still a problem). And I absolutely concur with your positions on the policies of UKIP. My Best
posted by rmhsinc at 11:16 AM on August 12, 2013
I keep reading UKIP as MUDKIP, which makes British politics even more hilarious than usual--and bear in mind that I'm saying this about a government that includes a man whose name is "Ed Balls".
posted by Mr. Bad Example
Ed Balls is not part of the Government, he is a senior member of the opposition.
posted by biffa at 11:29 AM on August 12, 2013
posted by Mr. Bad Example
Ed Balls is not part of the Government, he is a senior member of the opposition.
posted by biffa at 11:29 AM on August 12, 2013
If you want a laugh about a truly ridiculous politician google Michael Gove.
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on August 12, 2013
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on August 12, 2013
As wayward as Farage generally is - MuffinMan's assessment of UKIP is pretty much bang on - the HO behaviour his comments highlight is genuinely depressing. Gradually, the near-future environment of immigrant suspicion and abuse so brilliantly depicted in Cuarón's Children of Men is becoming the UK reality, almost to the point that it feels increasingly like a blueprint.
posted by specialbrew at 12:06 PM on August 12, 2013
posted by specialbrew at 12:06 PM on August 12, 2013
Only the really scary police in oppressive countries looking to deport people or toss them in jail based on not having the right kind of "papers" did that.... Not so true today methinks.
I think it's still true today. What's changed is which countries are oppressive ones with scary police.
posted by fings at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2013
I think it's still true today. What's changed is which countries are oppressive ones with scary police.
posted by fings at 12:36 PM on August 12, 2013
a UKIP government
Do not use those words together like that, even in jest. Brrr.
posted by Grangousier at 12:37 PM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Do not use those words together like that, even in jest. Brrr.
posted by Grangousier at 12:37 PM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'd bet UKIP are all for the Racist Van as well.
Farage came out against that as well; more than a hint of main objection being the stealing of UKIP soft racist thunder, but whatever, he did call it "nasty".
posted by Abiezer at 1:26 PM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Farage came out against that as well; more than a hint of main objection being the stealing of UKIP soft racist thunder, but whatever, he did call it "nasty".
posted by Abiezer at 1:26 PM on August 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
On the other hand he supports Godfrey Bloom's statement.
posted by longbaugh at 2:29 PM on August 12, 2013
posted by longbaugh at 2:29 PM on August 12, 2013
a government that includes a man whose name is "Ed Balls".
Not only is Ed not in the government, but the suggestion that he might be would give Tories hives.
posted by jaduncan at 2:41 AM on August 13, 2013
Not only is Ed not in the government, but the suggestion that he might be would give Tories hives.
posted by jaduncan at 2:41 AM on August 13, 2013
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posted by Artw at 10:06 AM on August 12, 2013 [12 favorites]