Bum bum diddly bum
January 18, 2014 8:29 PM Subscribe
#1 Bum by Luscious Jackson. Check out the end.
I did not know that they had made a new album. Huh.
Apparently, Pitchfork didn't think much of it, nor this track. I liked it a lot. Maybe I won't on a few more listens?
Regardless, this has prompted me to put on Fever In Fever Out, which is a Good Thing.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:57 PM on January 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Apparently, Pitchfork didn't think much of it, nor this track. I liked it a lot. Maybe I won't on a few more listens?
Regardless, this has prompted me to put on Fever In Fever Out, which is a Good Thing.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:57 PM on January 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
All of this 'female gaze' stuff has me mad concerned about my self-image.
On to more squats, lunges, and thrusts until I can satisfy the lusty public!
posted by The Giant Squid at 8:59 PM on January 18, 2014
On to more squats, lunges, and thrusts until I can satisfy the lusty public!
posted by The Giant Squid at 8:59 PM on January 18, 2014
That was very catchy. I was feeling uncomfortable with the objectification going on there but the twist at the end did make me smile.
posted by immlass at 9:19 PM on January 18, 2014
posted by immlass at 9:19 PM on January 18, 2014
#1 Bum by Luscious Jackson. Check out the end.
I see what you did there.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 9:26 PM on January 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 9:26 PM on January 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
I got your back
Is it wrong that I want to interpret this like "Got your nose!"
posted by this is a thing at 9:28 PM on January 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Is it wrong that I want to interpret this like "Got your nose!"
posted by this is a thing at 9:28 PM on January 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I love Luscious Jackson. (I've even got all of the member's solo albums!) I had no idea they had a new album out. And this track, well, the highest compliment you can give, I think, is that it sounds like their old stuff, which is a good thing! (Old stuff = Natural Ingredients, as Fever In has that spacey guitar throughout it...)
posted by Catblack at 9:30 PM on January 18, 2014
posted by Catblack at 9:30 PM on January 18, 2014
I liked all the women doing sports, because women do sports for fun but I can't ever remember seeing it in a video before
posted by duvatney at 9:33 PM on January 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by duvatney at 9:33 PM on January 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Also women like to look at butts (not all, just some).
posted by duvatney at 9:34 PM on January 18, 2014
posted by duvatney at 9:34 PM on January 18, 2014
That video is severely lacking in Ben Wyatt/Adam Scott bum.
posted by littlesq at 9:55 PM on January 18, 2014
posted by littlesq at 9:55 PM on January 18, 2014
Huh. I didn't think he had a particularly great ass.
posted by desuetude at 10:32 PM on January 18, 2014
posted by desuetude at 10:32 PM on January 18, 2014
Huh. I didn't think he had a particularly great a**.
Manners please. The polite word is "bum".
posted by Herr Zebrurka at 11:15 PM on January 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Manners please. The polite word is "bum".
posted by Herr Zebrurka at 11:15 PM on January 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, catchy! Thanks!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:48 PM on January 18, 2014
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:48 PM on January 18, 2014
Huh. I didn't think he had a particularly great ass.
How could you tell, through those baggy, ill-fitting jeans he was wearing?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:51 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
How could you tell, through those baggy, ill-fitting jeans he was wearing?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:51 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
DUDE BUTTS.
posted by louche mustachio at 3:09 AM on January 19, 2014
posted by louche mustachio at 3:09 AM on January 19, 2014
Man he really gotta wash that underwear that thing is so dirty it could stand up by itself
posted by ook at 4:26 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by ook at 4:26 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I liked this! Thanks for posting.
PS I always thought that Gene Kelly had a killer butt, but folks were too polite then to point it out. Dancer bums rule.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:04 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
PS I always thought that Gene Kelly had a killer butt, but folks were too polite then to point it out. Dancer bums rule.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:04 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Great video. This song is quite typical of this record, really fun though not world changing,certainly worth jamming in a mixtape or seeing them play live. And at least not so so super serious and boring like some comeback records *coughcoughPixiescough*
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:02 AM on January 19, 2014
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:02 AM on January 19, 2014
Man he really gotta wash that underwear that thing is so dirty it could stand up by itself
Those gazes landed with such force that the bum in scrutiny became a Plotonic Form merely imprinted on the physical universe.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:20 AM on January 19, 2014
Those gazes landed with such force that the bum in scrutiny became a Plotonic Form merely imprinted on the physical universe.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:20 AM on January 19, 2014
butts lol
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:51 AM on January 19, 2014
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:51 AM on January 19, 2014
yes (mnsfw)
Man I gotta get some of that suction cup butt because that is teh sexaaaay
posted by ook at 8:41 AM on January 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Man I gotta get some of that suction cup butt because that is teh sexaaaay
posted by ook at 8:41 AM on January 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
...three words I did not expect to type in that order today
posted by ook at 8:42 AM on January 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by ook at 8:42 AM on January 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Kudos for the spit-take at 1:23. Demonstrating that any music video (film, novel, marriage ceremony), no matter how good, is improved by a spit-take.
posted by the sobsister at 9:24 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 9:24 AM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's kind of great that the bum in question is pretty forgettable and wearing the dad equivalent of mom jeans.
I think a lot of men have a fantasy of living in a world where the explicit female gaze is a real thing. You usually see this come out when the dbagiest of dbags will interrupt a discussion about the harms of the male gaze to be all like, "Women are lucky. I *wish* women treated me like that." Obviously, the fantasy, being a fantasy, doesn't account for the invasiveness that the reality would involve.
I've sometimes even had to coach significant others to be all like, "hey, I'd like it if you looked me up and down and told me that I'm pretty sometimes, dang it!"
posted by Skwirl at 10:06 AM on January 19, 2014
I think a lot of men have a fantasy of living in a world where the explicit female gaze is a real thing. You usually see this come out when the dbagiest of dbags will interrupt a discussion about the harms of the male gaze to be all like, "Women are lucky. I *wish* women treated me like that." Obviously, the fantasy, being a fantasy, doesn't account for the invasiveness that the reality would involve.
I've sometimes even had to coach significant others to be all like, "hey, I'd like it if you looked me up and down and told me that I'm pretty sometimes, dang it!"
posted by Skwirl at 10:06 AM on January 19, 2014
"Obviously, the fantasy, being a fantasy, doesn't account for the invasiveness that the reality would involve."
I think the invasiveness is the smaller offense. What men don't account for in the fantasy is that they imagine both being privileged, having the social agency they have while also being objectified — on their terms, when they want, and not to be chiefly valued on that basis.
So basically the male fantasy is one of just adding more social capital, in the form of objectified sexual desirability, on top of that which men already have.
Which doesn't sound so bad.
When it replaces much of presumed male social capital, which includes autonomy and recognition of full personhood, and where the total now is less than it previously was, maybe that would be a more realistic fantasy and not one so attractive.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:34 AM on January 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
I think the invasiveness is the smaller offense. What men don't account for in the fantasy is that they imagine both being privileged, having the social agency they have while also being objectified — on their terms, when they want, and not to be chiefly valued on that basis.
So basically the male fantasy is one of just adding more social capital, in the form of objectified sexual desirability, on top of that which men already have.
Which doesn't sound so bad.
When it replaces much of presumed male social capital, which includes autonomy and recognition of full personhood, and where the total now is less than it previously was, maybe that would be a more realistic fantasy and not one so attractive.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:34 AM on January 19, 2014 [7 favorites]
I mean, most of the time, I look at men in jeans and think a) Oh honey, no. Just no. Put the skinny jeans away, because you ain't go no thing to fill them out with; or b) Uh, are you deliberately trying to hide your ass?
In general, men don't have much on the backside to admire. But the ones who do, I'd like thank the universe for.
posted by gsh at 11:23 AM on January 19, 2014
In general, men don't have much on the backside to admire. But the ones who do, I'd like thank the universe for.
posted by gsh at 11:23 AM on January 19, 2014
oh man, we had this conversation before and i was accused of objectifying my husband - but, i'm the opposite of gsh - i love a good man ass, i put it second or third to shoulders and calves in things that are physically attractive to me about men. in fact, i'm pretty sure it was those three traits that clued me in that i wasn't fully a lesbian in my teen years.
posted by nadawi at 11:31 AM on January 19, 2014
posted by nadawi at 11:31 AM on January 19, 2014
When it replaces much of presumed male social capital, which includes autonomy and recognition of full personhood, and where the total now is less than it previously was, maybe that would be a more realistic fantasy and not one so attractive.
That's one of the things I think this video does well-doesn't show the man's face or any other elements of subjectivity, but shows lots and lots of interesting-looking women doing pretty cool things. Maybe men are still the privileged ones in that universe, but at least in the scope of the video, it's the ladies who are recognized as having autonomy and personhood.
posted by ribbit ribbit at 12:31 PM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
That's one of the things I think this video does well-doesn't show the man's face or any other elements of subjectivity, but shows lots and lots of interesting-looking women doing pretty cool things. Maybe men are still the privileged ones in that universe, but at least in the scope of the video, it's the ladies who are recognized as having autonomy and personhood.
posted by ribbit ribbit at 12:31 PM on January 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
"So basically the male fantasy is one of just adding more social capital, in the form of objectified sexual desirability"
Absolutely. Men want to be desired without losing any of the angency that occasionally (usually) comes with being an object of desire. I like your comment because it reminds us that part of the bargain is losing agency. You are either subject or object.
posted by prozak at 9:09 AM on January 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Absolutely. Men want to be desired without losing any of the angency that occasionally (usually) comes with being an object of desire. I like your comment because it reminds us that part of the bargain is losing agency. You are either subject or object.
posted by prozak at 9:09 AM on January 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think a lot of men have a fantasy of living in a world where the explicit female gaze is a real thing.
Ask most1 straight men how they feel in a gay bar.
Then ask if they realize yet how women feel all the time, everywhere, in many ways until the end of their lives. Women get judged all day every day in a way that straight men simply do not, or if they do it matters far less (e.g. Jack Nicolson dating Lara Flynn Boyle is gross but boys will be boys, while Demi Moore's morality gets judged for dating Ashton Kutcher). Most gay men are pretty much always both judging and being judged and frankly it's fucking tiring.
Men want to be desired without losing any of the angency that occasionally (usually) comes with being an object of desire.
Yeah, exactly. There are exceptions of course, but most want this, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think the happiest gay couples I know are the ones who can negotiate the balance of agency clearly and quickly in any given situation. That obviously goes for straight couples too, except that men usually start out from the position of not being objectified all the time, so there isn't the same pressure of feeling you are controlled by most of the other gender. The faster the two of you figure out how to meet in the middle, and work out a compromise system, I think the more likely it is your relationship will last longer.
Plus a lot of gay men sort of flit in and out of years where they're desired, and ones where they're not (e.g. the hot twink at 19 is highly desired, but slowly fades away, until suddenly he's an adorable nerdy cub dude at 28 and highly desired again). I remember being (much) younger and relatively cute and just feeling eyes on me all the time. Knowing they were judging me because me and my friends would be judging them and each other at exactly the same time. It was gross. At the time in certain situations it was fun, but in retrospect there were so many stupid times that involved one way or the other "that dude is super hot." And now I'm older, and a bit more on the sidelines, which is fine, but I now have that objectifying power without it (mostly) coming back. Which is kinda gross.
So I don't know if the solution is to train all men not to objectify anyone, or to change society to the point where everyone's being objectified in the same ways, which would probably more or less make guys go "Euuuurgh, this is what we're like? Change it!"
This already seems to be starting to happen, in real ways, guys calling each other out for treating women poorly (and the revolting extreme PUA rat-vomit merchants acting out against that idea), white people calling each other out on racism intended or implied, straight people denouncing homophobic attitudes and laws, etc. So I'm thinking maybe that is the best answer. The change has to come from men2 because we are the problem.
I mean yeah while it's really easy for a gay dude to pontificate about objectifying women, and indeed is hypocritical in some ways, I think the point I'm trying to make is the male gaze affects everyone, whether you want it to or not. And the only way to do that is to show guys--all guys--how terrible and limiting it feels, by exposing him to it, calling him out on it, raising him not to use it, whatever. I had an inkling of being objectified for a couple of years, and in retrospect, my god how do women handle it for so long without just rising up en masse and taking over? (NB none of this is to say I don't objectify people too. But at leas I'm starting to question it sometimes which I hope is progress).
I guess what I'm saying is I hope we reach an equilibrium in society where appropriate appreciation is the norm, and objectify is practically a dirty word. If that makes any sense.
1. This is a number that's going down, which is good. It's getting to a point where even a few dudebros here and there just dgaf, and will call out homophobic BS, which is awesome.
2. Or people of privilege, generally
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:49 PM on January 20, 2014
Ask most1 straight men how they feel in a gay bar.
Then ask if they realize yet how women feel all the time, everywhere, in many ways until the end of their lives. Women get judged all day every day in a way that straight men simply do not, or if they do it matters far less (e.g. Jack Nicolson dating Lara Flynn Boyle is gross but boys will be boys, while Demi Moore's morality gets judged for dating Ashton Kutcher). Most gay men are pretty much always both judging and being judged and frankly it's fucking tiring.
Men want to be desired without losing any of the angency that occasionally (usually) comes with being an object of desire.
Yeah, exactly. There are exceptions of course, but most want this, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think the happiest gay couples I know are the ones who can negotiate the balance of agency clearly and quickly in any given situation. That obviously goes for straight couples too, except that men usually start out from the position of not being objectified all the time, so there isn't the same pressure of feeling you are controlled by most of the other gender. The faster the two of you figure out how to meet in the middle, and work out a compromise system, I think the more likely it is your relationship will last longer.
Plus a lot of gay men sort of flit in and out of years where they're desired, and ones where they're not (e.g. the hot twink at 19 is highly desired, but slowly fades away, until suddenly he's an adorable nerdy cub dude at 28 and highly desired again). I remember being (much) younger and relatively cute and just feeling eyes on me all the time. Knowing they were judging me because me and my friends would be judging them and each other at exactly the same time. It was gross. At the time in certain situations it was fun, but in retrospect there were so many stupid times that involved one way or the other "that dude is super hot." And now I'm older, and a bit more on the sidelines, which is fine, but I now have that objectifying power without it (mostly) coming back. Which is kinda gross.
So I don't know if the solution is to train all men not to objectify anyone, or to change society to the point where everyone's being objectified in the same ways, which would probably more or less make guys go "Euuuurgh, this is what we're like? Change it!"
This already seems to be starting to happen, in real ways, guys calling each other out for treating women poorly (and the revolting extreme PUA rat-vomit merchants acting out against that idea), white people calling each other out on racism intended or implied, straight people denouncing homophobic attitudes and laws, etc. So I'm thinking maybe that is the best answer. The change has to come from men2 because we are the problem.
I mean yeah while it's really easy for a gay dude to pontificate about objectifying women, and indeed is hypocritical in some ways, I think the point I'm trying to make is the male gaze affects everyone, whether you want it to or not. And the only way to do that is to show guys--all guys--how terrible and limiting it feels, by exposing him to it, calling him out on it, raising him not to use it, whatever. I had an inkling of being objectified for a couple of years, and in retrospect, my god how do women handle it for so long without just rising up en masse and taking over? (NB none of this is to say I don't objectify people too. But at leas I'm starting to question it sometimes which I hope is progress).
I guess what I'm saying is I hope we reach an equilibrium in society where appropriate appreciation is the norm, and objectify is practically a dirty word. If that makes any sense.
1. This is a number that's going down, which is good. It's getting to a point where even a few dudebros here and there just dgaf, and will call out homophobic BS, which is awesome.
2. Or people of privilege, generally
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:49 PM on January 20, 2014
Not their best song, but a decent video.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:16 AM on January 21, 2014
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:16 AM on January 21, 2014
"Ask most straight men how they feel in a gay bar."
I realize that I'm not representative of most straight men, but I am pretty straight and grew up in a very homophobic small town. But I first went to a gay bar with a couple of friends (one who was straight and one who was gay) in Amarillo, of all places, in 1986 and I wasn't the least bit threatened or made uncomfortable by it.
In fact, it was sort of revelatory for me when a guy came up and asked me to dance. It was so flattering! I immediately (and wrongly, though I didn't understand this until later) decided that women have the better deal in those kind of interactions, where it's an opportunity to be flattered for someone's interest rather than rejected for being interested. Only later did I come to realize that this is only the case when there is interest, and then only when it's welcome.
But at the time, I didn't find it threatening at all. BTW, I politely refused the dance, but expressed my genuine pleasure at having been asked.
For a large number of reasons, I am extremely opposed to making the comparison of gay male interest in straight men to straight male interest in women. It's really not comparable and, especially, using it to illustrate or prove anything (or, worse, as an actual attempt to make a straight man feel uncomfortable in the attempt to teach him a lesson about sexual harassment of women) ends up being all about leveraging homophobia to make a point about sexism, and implicitly reinforces homophobia while wrongly asserting that the interaction is comparable, when it's not. It's just bad all around.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:51 AM on January 21, 2014
I realize that I'm not representative of most straight men, but I am pretty straight and grew up in a very homophobic small town. But I first went to a gay bar with a couple of friends (one who was straight and one who was gay) in Amarillo, of all places, in 1986 and I wasn't the least bit threatened or made uncomfortable by it.
In fact, it was sort of revelatory for me when a guy came up and asked me to dance. It was so flattering! I immediately (and wrongly, though I didn't understand this until later) decided that women have the better deal in those kind of interactions, where it's an opportunity to be flattered for someone's interest rather than rejected for being interested. Only later did I come to realize that this is only the case when there is interest, and then only when it's welcome.
But at the time, I didn't find it threatening at all. BTW, I politely refused the dance, but expressed my genuine pleasure at having been asked.
For a large number of reasons, I am extremely opposed to making the comparison of gay male interest in straight men to straight male interest in women. It's really not comparable and, especially, using it to illustrate or prove anything (or, worse, as an actual attempt to make a straight man feel uncomfortable in the attempt to teach him a lesson about sexual harassment of women) ends up being all about leveraging homophobia to make a point about sexism, and implicitly reinforces homophobia while wrongly asserting that the interaction is comparable, when it's not. It's just bad all around.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:51 AM on January 21, 2014
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posted by gsh at 8:55 PM on January 18, 2014 [1 favorite]