Tarantino's Hateful Eight script leak: Mistrust, coffee, swearing ensue
January 27, 2014 2:33 PM Subscribe
“I gave it to three motherf***ing actors. We met in a place, and I put it in their hands. Reggie Hudlin’s agent never had a copy. It’s got to be either the agents of Dern or Madsen. Please name names.” Quentin Tarantino decided he won't make The Hateful Eight, which was slated to be his next big film. The script is now floating around the 'net, and summaries of the plot abound, telling of an ensemble cast in a very bloody Western centered on bounty hunters. If you don't want to track down the 146 page document, here is a summary of the six "most Tarantino" elements in the film, which was to be shot in 70 mm film, and in CinemaScope to boot.
Various outlets have noted that the leak and Tarantino's decision to not produce the violent film line up conveniently with Harvey Weinstein's statement that he will scale down his company's production and distribution of films depicting grossly violence just for the sake of being violent.
Various outlets have noted that the leak and Tarantino's decision to not produce the violent film line up conveniently with Harvey Weinstein's statement that he will scale down his company's production and distribution of films depicting grossly violence just for the sake of being violent.
And now Tarantino is suing Gawker Media for (linking to) the leaked script, even though it doesn't look like they did anything more than point to where it already was online.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:35 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 2:35 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Cheers, the Internet. I await your explanation of why this is actually awesome.
posted by Artw at 2:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
Good on Tarantino for doing what he needs to do. It was totally unacceptable for that person to leak the script. (It certainly seems like it was Madsen who leaked it, right?)
Various outlets have noted that the leak and Tarantino's decision to not produce the violent film line up conveniently with Harvey Weinstein's statement that he will scale down his company's production and distribution of films depicting grossly violence just for the sake of being violent.
I would be surprised if these are related. The Weinsteins probably have no problem with Tarantino's violent movies.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
Various outlets have noted that the leak and Tarantino's decision to not produce the violent film line up conveniently with Harvey Weinstein's statement that he will scale down his company's production and distribution of films depicting grossly violence just for the sake of being violent.
I would be surprised if these are related. The Weinsteins probably have no problem with Tarantino's violent movies.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
yeah really, gawker didn't leak it. they probably didn't make the best decision by aiming their traffic at it, but it wasn't their fault it got out.
he has every right to be angry that it got leaked, though. this is a hugely unprofessional thing to let that script out of your sight. but why not name-stamp the copies?
posted by ninjew at 2:40 PM on January 27, 2014
he has every right to be angry that it got leaked, though. this is a hugely unprofessional thing to let that script out of your sight. but why not name-stamp the copies?
posted by ninjew at 2:40 PM on January 27, 2014
Tarantino hasn't said he's not doing the film, ever. From the Deadline link:
posted by filthy light thief at 2:41 PM on January 27, 2014
"I don’t know how these fucking agents work, but I’m not making this next. I’m going to publish it, and that’s it for now. I give it out to six people, and if I can’t trust them to that degree, then I have no desire to make it. I’ll publish it. I’m done. I’ll move on to the next thing. I’ve got 10 more where that came from"So because the text of the script leaked, he's going to .... sell the text of the script.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:41 PM on January 27, 2014
They noted that a problem is that Tarantino possibly dispersed the script himself, without a watermark that usually prevents someone from secretly dispersing the screenplay.
Why no watermarks?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Why no watermarks?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
I remember the script for Kill Bill being all over the internet way before the film came out (even before it was split into two films I think)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:43 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:43 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
why not name-stamp the copies?
Because that doesn't stop people near to the sources from leaking material. The most recent example is Ellen's copy of the Walter Mitty screener.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:43 PM on January 27, 2014
Because that doesn't stop people near to the sources from leaking material. The most recent example is Ellen's copy of the Walter Mitty screener.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:43 PM on January 27, 2014
Wait, did you hear about that movie Tarantino is working on? No? Ok great, now you have.
posted by phaedon at 2:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [18 favorites]
posted by phaedon at 2:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [18 favorites]
I'm hoping for a bunch of corny Sweded versions of the film, to be honest.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
I smashed my way through it last week. It was entertaining in a way, but it did just seem like one big long setup for a fairly ridiculous gunfight. It definitely needed something more.
Also I looked at it I wondered why Tarantino went to all the trouble of making the script look like it was typewritten.
posted by awfurby at 2:46 PM on January 27, 2014
Also I looked at it I wondered why Tarantino went to all the trouble of making the script look like it was typewritten.
posted by awfurby at 2:46 PM on January 27, 2014
"The one I know didn’t do this is Tim Roth."
Quentin, have you seen your own movies? It was totally Tim Roth.
I kid, I kid. Tim Roth is a god among men.
posted by scody at 2:46 PM on January 27, 2014 [45 favorites]
Quentin, have you seen your own movies? It was totally Tim Roth.
I kid, I kid. Tim Roth is a god among men.
posted by scody at 2:46 PM on January 27, 2014 [45 favorites]
I smashed my way through it last week. It was entertaining in a way, but it did just seem like one big long setup for a fairly ridiculous gunfight. It definitely needed something more.
Are you sure that wasn't the script for Django Unchained?
posted by eyeballkid at 2:47 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
Are you sure that wasn't the script for Django Unchained?
posted by eyeballkid at 2:47 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
Also I looked at it I wondered why Tarantino went to all the trouble of making the script look like it was typewritten.
Hollywood formatting is pretty rigid and old school.
posted by Artw at 2:47 PM on January 27, 2014 [11 favorites]
Hollywood formatting is pretty rigid and old school.
posted by Artw at 2:47 PM on January 27, 2014 [11 favorites]
Not Madsen himself, but his agent right?
posted by bonehead at 2:48 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 2:48 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Are you sure that wasn't the script for Django Unchained?
He's definitely mining the same territory.
posted by awfurby at 2:49 PM on January 27, 2014
He's definitely mining the same territory.
posted by awfurby at 2:49 PM on January 27, 2014
( preemptive explanation, screenplay formats are rigid so people can look at a stack of pages to shoot that day and know how long it's gonna take cause they're all formatted the same way.)
posted by The Whelk at 2:50 PM on January 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:50 PM on January 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
Also I looked at it I wondered why Tarantino went to all the trouble of making the script look like it was typewritten.
As Artw says, Courier is the preferred typeface for scripts, even if it's been a couple of generations since anyone wrote one on an actual typewriter, because it allows a standard estimation that 1 page of script = 1 minute of action.
posted by scody at 2:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [20 favorites]
As Artw says, Courier is the preferred typeface for scripts, even if it's been a couple of generations since anyone wrote one on an actual typewriter, because it allows a standard estimation that 1 page of script = 1 minute of action.
posted by scody at 2:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [20 favorites]
I was heartbroken when I found out it would have been shot in 70mm. I would have loved that.
posted by brundlefly at 2:54 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by brundlefly at 2:54 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Eh, I really don't see how a script leak would ruin the film for its intended audience. Tarantino is being a petulant child. Sure, it's annoying on a personal level for him - but if he really wanted to make the film, he would still make it.
posted by crossoverman at 2:55 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 2:55 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
When critiquing the script, bear in mind that part of the reason Tarantino is so (ostensibly) pissed off about the leak is that it wasn't a final draft. So it's not just an unproduced script in the wild, it's a script that isn't up to standards.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [11 favorites]
I am having an increasingly easier time forgiving the eccentricities of Tarantino's films than the eccentricities of Tarantino himself. He really seems like a petulant asshat.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Eh, it's his film to make or not make, as the whim strikes him. He is under no contract to produce what he starts, and he owes the public nothing. He could scrap a film because his dinner was too bland. Sure, he'd come off as a bit unbalanced, but that's the worst of it.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:00 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 3:00 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Tarantino allowed that: “I could totally change my mind; I own the fucking thing. But I can tell you, it’s not going to be the next thing I do. It’s my baby, and if the muse calls me later to do it, we’ll do it."
So he's not saying he'll never make it, just that he won't make it next. Give it a few years and we may see this after all.
posted by echo target at 3:00 PM on January 27, 2014
So he's not saying he'll never make it, just that he won't make it next. Give it a few years and we may see this after all.
posted by echo target at 3:00 PM on January 27, 2014
filthy light thief: "And now Tarantino is suing Gawker Media for (linking to) the leaked script, even though it doesn't look like they did anything more than point to where it already was online."
So basically Tarantino is turning into Harlan Ellison
posted by octothorpe at 3:01 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
So basically Tarantino is turning into Harlan Ellison
posted by octothorpe at 3:01 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Could be worse; he could always be turning into Orson Scott Card.
posted by happyroach at 3:05 PM on January 27, 2014 [22 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 3:05 PM on January 27, 2014 [22 favorites]
Also I looked at it I wondered why Tarantino went to all the trouble of making the script look like it was typewritten.
I only know from the animation side but a script page is like a unit of measurement. You expect a given number of pages to be a certain amount of work. They've kept the same font and spacing since I started about 30 years ago.
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:08 PM on January 27, 2014
I only know from the animation side but a script page is like a unit of measurement. You expect a given number of pages to be a certain amount of work. They've kept the same font and spacing since I started about 30 years ago.
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:08 PM on January 27, 2014
"...It’s my baby, and if the muse calls me later to do it, we’ll do it."
I know it only reveals my lack of edginess, but I'm terribly troubled that there's a muse out there who inspires hilarious bullets to the kneecap and, you know, just buckets and buckets of blood.
posted by allthinky at 3:15 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
I know it only reveals my lack of edginess, but I'm terribly troubled that there's a muse out there who inspires hilarious bullets to the kneecap and, you know, just buckets and buckets of blood.
posted by allthinky at 3:15 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Sure, he'd come off as a bit unbalanced, but that's the worst of it.
But think what that would do to his public persona.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:19 PM on January 27, 2014
But think what that would do to his public persona.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:19 PM on January 27, 2014
When I heard about the leaked script a few days ago, it was not easily found online. Gawker facilitated distribution of it with an article with the lovely linkbait headline "Here is the leaked script". I suspect that the use of the word "here" in the headline gives him grounds to sue.
Also, and I won't link to it because Gawker, there's at least one very unflattering article on Gawker that describes Tarantino's penis.
posted by Catblack at 3:21 PM on January 27, 2014
Also, and I won't link to it because Gawker, there's at least one very unflattering article on Gawker that describes Tarantino's penis.
posted by Catblack at 3:21 PM on January 27, 2014
Off topic, but back in the day one of my teachers had been a script reader for some Hollywood concern. Every day someone would bring in a huge stack of scripts for him to do the first read and decide if it was worth forwarding on. The rule was that if it wasn't written in the standard format (typewriter font and all), he wasn't required to read it. You can probably guess how many of those got read.
posted by echo target at 3:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by echo target at 3:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Who will create pandering revenge porn for man children now?
posted by Malory Archer at 3:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [32 favorites]
posted by Malory Archer at 3:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [32 favorites]
Man I wish Tarantino would make another grown-up film. This hyperviolent masturbation stuff is just tedious. Jackie Brown was such a lovely film, I wish his muse would bring him back there.
posted by Nelson at 3:25 PM on January 27, 2014 [15 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 3:25 PM on January 27, 2014 [15 favorites]
They've kept the same font and spacing since I started about 30 years ago.
You need to update your courier.
posted by cazoo at 3:29 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
You need to update your courier.
posted by cazoo at 3:29 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Who will create pandering revenge porn for man children now?
Oh please, you're still saddlesore about being passed over for the role in Pulp Fiction, just cause you did the Amsterdam diamond heist doesn't mean he a really meant what he said Mallory!
posted by The Whelk at 3:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
Oh please, you're still saddlesore about being passed over for the role in Pulp Fiction, just cause you did the Amsterdam diamond heist doesn't mean he a really meant what he said Mallory!
posted by The Whelk at 3:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
Artw: "Cheers, the Internet. I await your explanation of why this is actually awesome."
We get to imagine him screaming and stamping his foot down like a petulant child, so there's that.
posted by Big_B at 3:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
We get to imagine him screaming and stamping his foot down like a petulant child, so there's that.
posted by Big_B at 3:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
Who will create pandering revenge porn for man children now?
Eli Roth.
posted by therealshell at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
Eli Roth.
posted by therealshell at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
Quentin Tarantino Sues Gawker Over Link to Script He Wants Online
posted by ninjew at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by ninjew at 3:31 PM on January 27, 2014
Sounds like it was going to be the worst Tarantino film, with too many similarities to Django, sans all the interesting parts. This is an opportunity to go in a different direction, instead of retreading the same genre.
Also, with Death Proof, Inglorious, and Django, he's done the whole female/Jewish/black violent-revenge-fantasy-victim-to-victimizer thing. And since Rodriguez has already done the Mexican one with Machete, the only direction left for Tarantino is a homicidal homosex avenger. Of course he's also done war, western, gangster, blaxploitation, and samurai/martial arts pix, so he's running out of genres too. So it might have to be a horror film or a sci-fi.
So be on the lookout for Tarantino's gay werewolf movie in 2016.
posted by dgaicun at 3:32 PM on January 27, 2014 [20 favorites]
Also, with Death Proof, Inglorious, and Django, he's done the whole female/Jewish/black violent-revenge-fantasy-victim-to-victimizer thing. And since Rodriguez has already done the Mexican one with Machete, the only direction left for Tarantino is a homicidal homosex avenger. Of course he's also done war, western, gangster, blaxploitation, and samurai/martial arts pix, so he's running out of genres too. So it might have to be a horror film or a sci-fi.
So be on the lookout for Tarantino's gay werewolf movie in 2016.
posted by dgaicun at 3:32 PM on January 27, 2014 [20 favorites]
I would be totally down for a gay revenge fantasy movie. maybe in a period setting.
Oh oh oh set it in the 60s, we can call it
STONEWALL JACKSON
posted by The Whelk at 3:34 PM on January 27, 2014 [52 favorites]
Oh oh oh set it in the 60s, we can call it
STONEWALL JACKSON
posted by The Whelk at 3:34 PM on January 27, 2014 [52 favorites]
He really seems like a petulant asshat.
And also a genius. See: Orson Welles. Please, QT, be as petulant as you like.
posted by xmutex at 3:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
And also a genius. See: Orson Welles. Please, QT, be as petulant as you like.
posted by xmutex at 3:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Welles wasn't at all a petulant asshat. A self-aggrandizing fabulist sure. But he was pretty wall to wall likable. Full of bullshit, but likable.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
Anyway, what I was saying was that as time goes on, I find my love for QT's films deepening, even as I don't care much for him as a person.
In any case, I don't think there's any reason to think QT's genius is tied to his petulance.
I'm not arguing with premise that intolerable people sometimes make great stuff. My favorite musician is Alex Chilton, after all.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
In any case, I don't think there's any reason to think QT's genius is tied to his petulance.
I'm not arguing with premise that intolerable people sometimes make great stuff. My favorite musician is Alex Chilton, after all.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Welles wasn't at all a petulant asshat. A self-aggrandizing fabulist sure.
I'm pretty sure the only difference between a petulant asshat and a self-aggrandizing fabulist is you're kinda fond of the latter and not so much the former.
posted by xmutex at 3:46 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the only difference between a petulant asshat and a self-aggrandizing fabulist is you're kinda fond of the latter and not so much the former.
posted by xmutex at 3:46 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
This is just to remind everybody that Tarantinto was an uncredited writer for It's Pat and also once played an Elvis impersonator on the Golden Girls.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:49 PM on January 27, 2014 [28 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:49 PM on January 27, 2014 [28 favorites]
That's not a small difference though. Welles was umpteen pounds of charm, even if he was an asshole.
Anyway, if what you're arguing is that Tarantino is a great artist, even if he's an asshole, I agree. And if you're arguing that Welles was also an asshole, just more likable, I'm there with you on that one, too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:49 PM on January 27, 2014
Anyway, if what you're arguing is that Tarantino is a great artist, even if he's an asshole, I agree. And if you're arguing that Welles was also an asshole, just more likable, I'm there with you on that one, too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:49 PM on January 27, 2014
Welles wasn't at all a petulant asshat. A self-aggrandizing fabulist sure. But he was pretty wall to wall likable. Full of bullshit, but likable.
Sure, when he wasn't drunk.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:49 PM on January 27, 2014
Sure, when he wasn't drunk.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:49 PM on January 27, 2014
Welles wasn't at all a petulant asshat. A self-aggrandizing fabulist sure.
"Here under protest is "beef burgers." "We know a little place in the American Far West, where Charlie Briggs chops up the finest prairie-fed beef and tastes..." This is a lot of shit, you know that? You want one more?"
posted by benzenedream at 3:50 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
"Here under protest is "beef burgers." "We know a little place in the American Far West, where Charlie Briggs chops up the finest prairie-fed beef and tastes..." This is a lot of shit, you know that? You want one more?"
posted by benzenedream at 3:50 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sure, when he wasn't drunk.
Point of order he was never not drunk
posted by The Whelk at 3:51 PM on January 27, 2014 [18 favorites]
Point of order he was never not drunk
posted by The Whelk at 3:51 PM on January 27, 2014 [18 favorites]
After Jackie Brown, the Kill Bills were good, Django had a few moments, but I am so completely over Tarantino's cartoonish-yet-nauseating violence that I hope however many scripts he floats that contain the same one-note sadism coupled with redundant gore get leaked until he finally exorcises whatever continues to compel him to make these films.
posted by the sobsister at 3:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 3:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Are we talking about Quentin Tarantino the director, or Quentin Tarantino in accounting? Because I've know the latter since 1992, and he always seemed like a calm, reasonable guy with a placid personality and I am genuinely surprised he is acting this way.
posted by griphus at 3:54 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by griphus at 3:54 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Proving whether or not Welles is likable feels like a derail. But really, if you're not charmed by Welles, try Simon Callow's two part bio on him. Or even Bogdanovich's Welles on Welles. Marlene Dietrich said of Welles, "When I have spoken with him, I feel like a plant that has been watered." He's ridiculously charming and likable.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:55 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:55 PM on January 27, 2014
Raise your hand if you think Quentin Tarantino knows enough about computer security to have an informed opinion that it's impossible his own damn machine was hacked.
posted by Zed at 3:55 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Zed at 3:55 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
And also a genius. See: Orson Welles.
I'm gonna have to go and disagree with that particular comparison. Until QT makes a movie that doesn't rely on either blatantmimickinghomage to his fave genre-du-jour and/or gratuitous über-violence, he's really not in the same league with Welles.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
I'm gonna have to go and disagree with that particular comparison. Until QT makes a movie that doesn't rely on either blatant
posted by Thorzdad at 3:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
I know it only reveals my lack of edginess, but I'm terribly troubled that there's a muse out there who inspires hilarious bullets to the kneecap and, you know, just buckets and buckets of blood.
Not only has it been out there, but it's been operating since the dawn of theatre.
posted by the bricabrac man at 3:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not only has it been out there, but it's been operating since the dawn of theatre.
posted by the bricabrac man at 3:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
On the topic of drunk Orson Welles... you have never been this drunk in your life.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:59 PM on January 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:59 PM on January 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
I'm honestly completely befuddled that MeFi is rallying around not only defending gawker by proxy, when gawker is a pile of shit... but also calling an artist who had an unfinished work leaked a petulant child for being mad about it?
Like, i thought this site was full of artists, musicians, etc? would you be mad about that? do you have no empathy at all?
posted by emptythought at 4:00 PM on January 27, 2014 [7 favorites]
Like, i thought this site was full of artists, musicians, etc? would you be mad about that? do you have no empathy at all?
posted by emptythought at 4:00 PM on January 27, 2014 [7 favorites]
Haters gotta hate
posted by the bricabrac man at 4:02 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by the bricabrac man at 4:02 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
I just can't make it past the first half hour of tediousness that is Inglourious Basterds, so yay.
posted by telstar at 4:02 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by telstar at 4:02 PM on January 27, 2014
emptythought: " do you have no empathy at all?"
Sorry, I've been fasting and I'm edgy.
posted by Malory Archer at 4:04 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sorry, I've been fasting and I'm edgy.
posted by Malory Archer at 4:04 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm honestly completely befuddled that MeFi is rallying around not only defending gawker by proxy, when gawker is a pile of shit... but also calling an artist who had an unfinished work leaked a petulant child for being mad about it?
I think they're rallying because Gawker is being sued for publishing a link to material existing elsewhere, which is total bullshit and betrays a lack of understanding of how the web works.
posted by JHarris at 4:05 PM on January 27, 2014 [12 favorites]
I think they're rallying because Gawker is being sued for publishing a link to material existing elsewhere, which is total bullshit and betrays a lack of understanding of how the web works.
posted by JHarris at 4:05 PM on January 27, 2014 [12 favorites]
Jackie Brown was such a lovely film, I wish his muse would bring him back there.
There are still a bunch of Elmore Leonard books that haven't been filmed ...
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:05 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
There are still a bunch of Elmore Leonard books that haven't been filmed ...
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:05 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Were it the one thing, emptythought, more people would probably give him the benefit of the doubt. He's got a whole litany of groan-inducing behavior though.
And anyway, I haven't seen anyone argue that being mad about the leak isn't reasonable. It's the way he responded that is mildly annoying. Though I haven't seen anyone argue it was annoying enough not to like his films.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:06 PM on January 27, 2014
And anyway, I haven't seen anyone argue that being mad about the leak isn't reasonable. It's the way he responded that is mildly annoying. Though I haven't seen anyone argue it was annoying enough not to like his films.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:06 PM on January 27, 2014
I think they're rallying because Gawker is being sued for publishing a link to material existing elsewhere, which is total bullshit and betrays a lack of understanding of how the web works.
Yea, but it's kinda like seeing that one guy whose a drunk asshole and constantly starting shit with everyone in sight get sucker punched for no reason. Who really cares? It might have been a dumb thing for tarantino to do, but if you think about it's really not. They're giving it a ton of coverage it otherwise likely wouldn't have had.
I mean yea, it's sue the pirate bay for "hosting torrents" logic kinda, but i can at least see it a bit more this time.
posted by emptythought at 4:06 PM on January 27, 2014
Yea, but it's kinda like seeing that one guy whose a drunk asshole and constantly starting shit with everyone in sight get sucker punched for no reason. Who really cares? It might have been a dumb thing for tarantino to do, but if you think about it's really not. They're giving it a ton of coverage it otherwise likely wouldn't have had.
I mean yea, it's sue the pirate bay for "hosting torrents" logic kinda, but i can at least see it a bit more this time.
posted by emptythought at 4:06 PM on January 27, 2014
but also calling an artist who had an unfinished work leaked a petulant child for being mad about it?
What is the impact of a leaked script on the number of people who will end up paying to see the film at the cinema or buy it on BluRay? What is the absolute number of people who will read a leaked script online compared to the number who will see the finished product?
Yeah, it sucks that it was leaked. But why is he naming names? Why wouldn't he deal with that privately?
And it's unfinished - which I think is probably the worst of it. Especially in this day and age where bloggers review leaked scripts. But, again, just tell it's unfinished and then finish the damned thing.
Don't jump up and down, accuse the two possible leakers and then say you're not going to make it - when he's in the position to make any film he wants. Oh no, what a hardship, you can't make that one film - make another and stop complaining.
Or make that one and realise that nobody gives a crap about a leaked screenplay until Tarantino made it an issue himself.
posted by crossoverman at 4:12 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
What is the impact of a leaked script on the number of people who will end up paying to see the film at the cinema or buy it on BluRay? What is the absolute number of people who will read a leaked script online compared to the number who will see the finished product?
Yeah, it sucks that it was leaked. But why is he naming names? Why wouldn't he deal with that privately?
And it's unfinished - which I think is probably the worst of it. Especially in this day and age where bloggers review leaked scripts. But, again, just tell it's unfinished and then finish the damned thing.
Don't jump up and down, accuse the two possible leakers and then say you're not going to make it - when he's in the position to make any film he wants. Oh no, what a hardship, you can't make that one film - make another and stop complaining.
Or make that one and realise that nobody gives a crap about a leaked screenplay until Tarantino made it an issue himself.
posted by crossoverman at 4:12 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
On the topic of drunk Orson Welles... you have never been this drunk in your life.
You don't know me, man....
posted by thelonius at 4:13 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
You don't know me, man....
posted by thelonius at 4:13 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
So he's not saying he'll never make it, just that he won't make it next. Give it a few years and we may see this after all.
Tarantino only makes about one out of five of the movies he says he is making, let alone the ones he says he's not. I would be enormously surprised if we ever saw this.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 4:16 PM on January 27, 2014
Tarantino only makes about one out of five of the movies he says he is making, let alone the ones he says he's not. I would be enormously surprised if we ever saw this.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 4:16 PM on January 27, 2014
How often does a movie actually get released looking like the script does at this early stage?
Also, Chinese Democracy.
posted by not_on_display at 4:17 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, Chinese Democracy.
posted by not_on_display at 4:17 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
FADE IN
INT. MICHAEL MADSEN'S OFFICE — NIGHT
In the dark squalor of MICHAEL MADSEN'S office a man in black leather gloves and jacket carelessly riffles through the desk and filing cabinet. The door is smashed, but the burglar moves with relaxed nonchalance. He looks at MICHAEL MADSEN'S worthless nicknacks with a mixture of pity and annoyance. Throwing up his hands, he walks into the bathroom and prepares to piss. The little bit of ambient light is just enough for him to see a script on top of the toilet tank.
The script's cover reads, "The Hateful Eight, by Quentin Tarantino." The burglar shrugs, and stuffs the script into the pocket of his jacket.
posted by klangklangston at 4:19 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
INT. MICHAEL MADSEN'S OFFICE — NIGHT
In the dark squalor of MICHAEL MADSEN'S office a man in black leather gloves and jacket carelessly riffles through the desk and filing cabinet. The door is smashed, but the burglar moves with relaxed nonchalance. He looks at MICHAEL MADSEN'S worthless nicknacks with a mixture of pity and annoyance. Throwing up his hands, he walks into the bathroom and prepares to piss. The little bit of ambient light is just enough for him to see a script on top of the toilet tank.
The script's cover reads, "The Hateful Eight, by Quentin Tarantino." The burglar shrugs, and stuffs the script into the pocket of his jacket.
posted by klangklangston at 4:19 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
Of course he's also done war, western, gangster, blaxploitation, and samurai/martial arts pix, so he's running out of genres too. So it might have to be a horror film or a sci-fi.
I've got money saved up to see a Tarantino cold-war spy movie.
Quiet slice of life indie? Animated movie? VIKING EPIC!
posted by theweasel at 4:23 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
I've got money saved up to see a Tarantino cold-war spy movie.
Quiet slice of life indie? Animated movie? VIKING EPIC!
posted by theweasel at 4:23 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised that they don't do something like have one small change unique in each copy that they give out. Like the script you give to Joe says on page 83 "Give me the hamburger" while the other scripts say "Give me the burger"; the script you give to Janine says on page 22 "That's a lot of shoes" while the other scripts say "Now that's a lot of shoes".
posted by Flunkie at 4:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Flunkie at 4:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
Who will create pandering revenge porn for man children now? Eli Roth.
Revenge porn isn't all bad. Read My Son Killed Adolf Hitler, Eli Roth's jewish father on the catharsis of ultraviolence.
posted by foobaz at 4:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Revenge porn isn't all bad. Read My Son Killed Adolf Hitler, Eli Roth's jewish father on the catharsis of ultraviolence.
posted by foobaz at 4:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
I know it only reveals my lack of edginess, but I'm terribly troubled that there's a muse out there who inspires hilarious bullets to the kneecap and, you know, just buckets and buckets of blood.
According to Hesiod, that would be Polyhaemnia.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:25 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
According to Hesiod, that would be Polyhaemnia.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:25 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
Thorzdad: "I'm gonna have to go and disagree with that particular comparison. Until QT makes a movie that doesn't rely on either blatant mimickinghomage to his fave genre-du-jour and/or gratuitous über-violence, he's really not in the same league with Welles."
I would really like to see Tarantino make a "straight" movie that doesn't overtly reference any other movie or do any kind of gratuitous stylistic indulgences. Maybe that would be a waste of his particular talents but I'd love to see him try it.
posted by octothorpe at 4:25 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
I would really like to see Tarantino make a "straight" movie that doesn't overtly reference any other movie or do any kind of gratuitous stylistic indulgences. Maybe that would be a waste of his particular talents but I'd love to see him try it.
posted by octothorpe at 4:25 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not Madsen himself, but his agent right?
That fuck Scagnetti!
posted by battleshipkropotkin at 4:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
That fuck Scagnetti!
posted by battleshipkropotkin at 4:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
He should be making a blaxsploitation movie set in outer space anyway.
Are you suggesting a Homeboys from Space film by Tarantino?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Are you suggesting a Homeboys from Space film by Tarantino?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:30 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised that they don't do something like have one small change unique in each copy that they give out.
It wouldn't really stop this sort of thing anyway. There are so many people involved in getting a script to a person that not even Tarantino can just stop by Michael Madsen's house and say, "Hey, Mike, here's my next movie. Read it over and tell me you want to be in it," and trust that only Michael Madsen will ever have his hands on it. Even if you disregard the chance that he'll show it to his friends, his agent will have to look at it, and his agent has better things to do than sit at Michael Madsen's house and flip through the thing.
posted by Etrigan at 4:31 PM on January 27, 2014
It wouldn't really stop this sort of thing anyway. There are so many people involved in getting a script to a person that not even Tarantino can just stop by Michael Madsen's house and say, "Hey, Mike, here's my next movie. Read it over and tell me you want to be in it," and trust that only Michael Madsen will ever have his hands on it. Even if you disregard the chance that he'll show it to his friends, his agent will have to look at it, and his agent has better things to do than sit at Michael Madsen's house and flip through the thing.
posted by Etrigan at 4:31 PM on January 27, 2014
For the many hours of enjoyment I've taken from seeing QT's movies over the years, he can spend the remainder of his career making Disney princess slash fiction for all I care. The man has an ego and wants total control over his shit. From everything I've read and heard, these are typically prerequisites to being a successful movie director, or at least representative qualities of the breed. He's pissed off and butt hurt that someone connected to someone he trusted leaked his unfinished script. I think he has a right to be.
posted by mosk at 4:32 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by mosk at 4:32 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
Raise your hand if you think Quentin Tarantino knows enough about computer security to have an informed opinion that it's impossible his own damn machine was hacked.
Hoisted by your own petard.
Tarantino does not own a computer, he writes his scripts by longhand. He does not communicate by email, nor has an email address. Tarantino does not own a cellphone. Tarantino doesn't ever want to shoot on digital cameras, and claims he'd rather stop directing than quit shooting on celluloid. Tarantino doesn't play video games. Tarantino is something of a luddite when it comes to things digital.
So no, there is no chance "his own damn machine was hacked", because it doesn't exist, and no, he doesn't know much if anything about computers.
However, it is possible that his production company might be a source one way or another.
posted by VikingSword at 4:32 PM on January 27, 2014 [7 favorites]
Hoisted by your own petard.
Tarantino does not own a computer, he writes his scripts by longhand. He does not communicate by email, nor has an email address. Tarantino does not own a cellphone. Tarantino doesn't ever want to shoot on digital cameras, and claims he'd rather stop directing than quit shooting on celluloid. Tarantino doesn't play video games. Tarantino is something of a luddite when it comes to things digital.
So no, there is no chance "his own damn machine was hacked", because it doesn't exist, and no, he doesn't know much if anything about computers.
However, it is possible that his production company might be a source one way or another.
posted by VikingSword at 4:32 PM on January 27, 2014 [7 favorites]
Something definitely happened between the two Kill Bills because everything up to then was solid and Kill Bill 1 was amazing and Kill Bill 2 and everything since has been... well not so amazing.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:33 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:33 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
I would really like to see Tarantino make a "straight" movie that doesn't overtly reference any other movie or do any kind of gratuitous stylistic indulgences. Maybe that would be a waste of his particular talents but I'd love to see him try it.
He did that in Jackie Brown. It was a sober, adult little number and absolutely nobody talked about the film. Everyone should remember the total non-reaction which came about after that film's release. It was like he had not made a movie at all. Was it the less quotable dialogue? The linear (if complex) structure? Is it because he stepped back from stylization?
That's why we got Kill Bill and all of the other schlock: we get the director we reward.
posted by adipocere at 4:34 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
He did that in Jackie Brown. It was a sober, adult little number and absolutely nobody talked about the film. Everyone should remember the total non-reaction which came about after that film's release. It was like he had not made a movie at all. Was it the less quotable dialogue? The linear (if complex) structure? Is it because he stepped back from stylization?
That's why we got Kill Bill and all of the other schlock: we get the director we reward.
posted by adipocere at 4:34 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
He did that in Jackie Brown. It was a sober, adult little number and absolutely nobody talked about the film. Everyone should remember the total non-reaction which came about after that film's release. It was like he had not made a movie at all. Was it the less quotable dialogue? The linear (if complex) structure? Is it because he stepped back from stylization?
Eh, I did like Jackie Brown but it still has a lot of fan-boy shout-outs and stylistic ticks.
posted by octothorpe at 4:41 PM on January 27, 2014
Eh, I did like Jackie Brown but it still has a lot of fan-boy shout-outs and stylistic ticks.
posted by octothorpe at 4:41 PM on January 27, 2014
I'm never too sure what happened after Jackie Brown... whether it didn't make enough money for him or award noms. I loved the pure pulpy action vibe of the first Kill Bill... but then it just got all got bit too referency with not enough other compensations
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:43 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:43 PM on January 27, 2014
Sorry I'm still imagining STONEWALL JACKSON as an into the night mood peice about being gay in the 60s but with WITCHES and WEREWOLVES.
I can see the tag line perfectly STONEWALL JACKSON: Love men. Kill Men.
posted by The Whelk at 4:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
I can see the tag line perfectly STONEWALL JACKSON: Love men. Kill Men.
posted by The Whelk at 4:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
there is no chance "his own damn machine was hacked", because it doesn't exist
You win. My point goes totally out the window if someone else typed it into Final Draft.
posted by Zed at 4:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
You win. My point goes totally out the window if someone else typed it into Final Draft.
posted by Zed at 4:44 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
He did that in Jackie Brown. It was a sober, adult little number and absolutely nobody talked about the film.
Because it was so goddamned bad and boring and clearly not even a tenth of the movie that any given 15 minute segment of Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained is that one might take you for a troll.
posted by xmutex at 4:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Because it was so goddamned bad and boring and clearly not even a tenth of the movie that any given 15 minute segment of Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained is that one might take you for a troll.
posted by xmutex at 4:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Tarantino does not own a computer, he writes his scripts by longhand. He does not communicate by email, nor has an email address. Tarantino does not own a cellphone. Tarantino doesn't ever want to shoot on digital cameras, and claims he'd rather stop directing than quit shooting on celluloid. Tarantino doesn't play video games. Tarantino is something of a luddite when it comes to things digital.
Tarantino contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Do not taunt Quentin Tarnatino.
posted by brundlefly at 4:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [34 favorites]
Tarantino contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Do not taunt Quentin Tarnatino.
posted by brundlefly at 4:52 PM on January 27, 2014 [34 favorites]
Because it was so goddamned bad and boring and clearly not even a tenth of the movie that any given 15 minute segment of Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained is that one might take you for a troll.
Rarely have I seen "different strokes for different folks" so sharply illustrated.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [13 favorites]
Rarely have I seen "different strokes for different folks" so sharply illustrated.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [13 favorites]
So much Tarantino hate. Honestly I'm not sure at what point everyone decided he was a terrible person, but personally all the interviews I've read or seen make him sound like a guy that's interested in similar things as I am, only a lot more obsessively and passionately. I could listen to him nerd out all day. Also I would be pissed off if something I worked on got released to the public without my permission before it was finished. And finally, I have liked his later movies even though they are somewhat of a departure. Calling them "revenge porn" and "schlock" is kind of missing the point.
He did that in Jackie Brown. It was a sober, adult little number and absolutely nobody talked about the film
That's not how I remember it. It also did pretty good at the box office.
posted by Hoopo at 4:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [7 favorites]
He did that in Jackie Brown. It was a sober, adult little number and absolutely nobody talked about the film
That's not how I remember it. It also did pretty good at the box office.
posted by Hoopo at 4:56 PM on January 27, 2014 [7 favorites]
Because it was so goddamned bad and boring and clearly not even a tenth of the movie that any given 15 minute segment of Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained is that one might take you for a troll.
Watch it again. It's really good.
The open and close are shout outs to "The Graduate", so that means it's meant as a kind of bildungsroman for middle age.
Everybody in that movie is fighting getting older, slower, falling behind, and it's a really beautiful meditation on age.
posted by rocketman at 4:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
Watch it again. It's really good.
The open and close are shout outs to "The Graduate", so that means it's meant as a kind of bildungsroman for middle age.
Everybody in that movie is fighting getting older, slower, falling behind, and it's a really beautiful meditation on age.
posted by rocketman at 4:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
The lack of watermarks on the scripts that were sent out is highly suspicious.
As is the idea that there isn't an assistant out there who knows exactly who got every copy of the script, ever.
It's been my job to do this stuff, before, and these are questions that have answers. This doesn't just "happen".
posted by Sara C. at 4:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
As is the idea that there isn't an assistant out there who knows exactly who got every copy of the script, ever.
It's been my job to do this stuff, before, and these are questions that have answers. This doesn't just "happen".
posted by Sara C. at 4:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
I'm surprised that they don't do something like have one small change unique in each copy that they give out.
There's no need to do this.
The correct answer to this problem is an assistant and an excel spreadsheet.
Every copy of the script that goes out gets logged. Now you have a perfect record of everyone who ever got the script. Finding out from there who the leaker is isn't foolproof, but at this stage in production the list is very short. It's not that hard to figure out which assistant to fire when the leak happens.
posted by Sara C. at 5:03 PM on January 27, 2014
There's no need to do this.
The correct answer to this problem is an assistant and an excel spreadsheet.
Every copy of the script that goes out gets logged. Now you have a perfect record of everyone who ever got the script. Finding out from there who the leaker is isn't foolproof, but at this stage in production the list is very short. It's not that hard to figure out which assistant to fire when the leak happens.
posted by Sara C. at 5:03 PM on January 27, 2014
Jackie Brown did OK at the box office: $73M on a $12M budget. (Compare $15M for Reservoir Dogs, $214M for Pulp Fiction, $181M for Kill Bill Vol 1). 86% on Rotten Tomatoes, which puts it comfortably in the middle of the pack of reviews for his films. I agree it fell sort of flat, but I think that's because it was an actual interesting nuanced film. With excellent performances both by Pam Grier and especially Robert Forster.
Jackie Brown is definitely the one exception in QT's ouevre now and I fear he'll never go back to it. He seems to be hooked on making ultraviolent cartoon movies and it's working for him so, well, OK. I wish David Lynch would make another Straight Story too, or failing that something like Dune. For some reason these famous directors don't listen to me.
posted by Nelson at 5:04 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
Jackie Brown is definitely the one exception in QT's ouevre now and I fear he'll never go back to it. He seems to be hooked on making ultraviolent cartoon movies and it's working for him so, well, OK. I wish David Lynch would make another Straight Story too, or failing that something like Dune. For some reason these famous directors don't listen to me.
posted by Nelson at 5:04 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
From what I read of this the other day, this wasn't an official script in any way. It was him personally meeting up with three actors he's friends with and saying "Here's a very rough draft, you should read it and tell me what you think." So I could understand why he's more furious about this than past script leaks.
Suing Gawker though, maybe a bit extreme to me. But as a Tarantino fan I wasn't really excited about another Western anyway, so here's hoping this leads to something way different and better.
posted by mannequito at 5:04 PM on January 27, 2014
Suing Gawker though, maybe a bit extreme to me. But as a Tarantino fan I wasn't really excited about another Western anyway, so here's hoping this leads to something way different and better.
posted by mannequito at 5:04 PM on January 27, 2014
Tarantino is something of a luddite when it comes to things digital.
People who live this way are only able to do so because they have hired someone whose job it is to be their digital proxy. Those long hand script pages get typed out and turned into PDFs and emailed around somehow. It's not like the crew is on set passing around a pile of legal pads.
posted by Sara C. at 5:06 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
People who live this way are only able to do so because they have hired someone whose job it is to be their digital proxy. Those long hand script pages get typed out and turned into PDFs and emailed around somehow. It's not like the crew is on set passing around a pile of legal pads.
posted by Sara C. at 5:06 PM on January 27, 2014 [8 favorites]
theweasel: VIKING EPIC!
Did you notice a sign in front of my house that says "dead norman storage?"
posted by dr_dank at 5:15 PM on January 27, 2014 [12 favorites]
Did you notice a sign in front of my house that says "dead norman storage?"
posted by dr_dank at 5:15 PM on January 27, 2014 [12 favorites]
Maybe I'm desensitized, but I'm surprised so many people are criticizing Tarantino's violence. The bloodshed is usually ultra-stylized and gleefully ironic, and in his recent movies, pointed barbs at the viewer on some level. It's not just brainlessly violent schlock (though Tarantino would defend the brainlessly violent schlock to the death, of course. What's wrong with that stuff, anyway? When'd y'all turn into moral bores?)
posted by naju at 5:22 PM on January 27, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by naju at 5:22 PM on January 27, 2014 [9 favorites]
Something definitely happened between the two Kill Bills because everything up to then was solid and Kill Bill 1 was amazing and Kill Bill 2 and everything since has been... well not so amazing.
hmmm?
I guess we're all entitled to our opinions, so here's mine.
A. Jackie Brown's a great movie, one of a very few I can watch any time. Interesting that Out of Sight and Get Shorty also rate in this regard. I guess I'm an Elmore Leonard fan.
B. I hated both Kill Bills. They had plenty of style, but ultimately no substance. And even the style wore off by the end. What a non-climax despite the forced feeding of Ennio Morricone on the soundtrack! What an utter waste of three or four hours of this film lover's life!
C. I'll go out on a limb and say Inglorious Basterds is Tarantino's best film ... and he knows it, the final line being, "I think this just might be my masterpiece." Because it manages to not just be about WW2 and having fun with reinventing the history of WW2 but it's also about cinema and propaganda and real life versus invented life, with the climactic scene in the theater being one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. (spoiler alert) German war hero and the Jewish girl are both lying dead in projection room having killed each other while out in the theater, they are both still alive on the screen, which is erupting in flames -- the last thing anyone in the theater will ever see, because they're all about to die. Meta on meta on meta.
posted by philip-random at 5:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [15 favorites]
hmmm?
I guess we're all entitled to our opinions, so here's mine.
A. Jackie Brown's a great movie, one of a very few I can watch any time. Interesting that Out of Sight and Get Shorty also rate in this regard. I guess I'm an Elmore Leonard fan.
B. I hated both Kill Bills. They had plenty of style, but ultimately no substance. And even the style wore off by the end. What a non-climax despite the forced feeding of Ennio Morricone on the soundtrack! What an utter waste of three or four hours of this film lover's life!
C. I'll go out on a limb and say Inglorious Basterds is Tarantino's best film ... and he knows it, the final line being, "I think this just might be my masterpiece." Because it manages to not just be about WW2 and having fun with reinventing the history of WW2 but it's also about cinema and propaganda and real life versus invented life, with the climactic scene in the theater being one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. (spoiler alert) German war hero and the Jewish girl are both lying dead in projection room having killed each other while out in the theater, they are both still alive on the screen, which is erupting in flames -- the last thing anyone in the theater will ever see, because they're all about to die. Meta on meta on meta.
posted by philip-random at 5:24 PM on January 27, 2014 [15 favorites]
Meta on meta on meta.
Tarantino disappearing up his own ass.
posted by crossoverman at 5:27 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Tarantino disappearing up his own ass.
posted by crossoverman at 5:27 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
I hated both Kill Bills. They had plenty of style, but ultimately no substance. And even the style wore off by the end. What a non-climax despite the forced feeding of Ennio Morricone on the soundtrack!
The lack of a climax is very much the point, yes? I think I'm paraphrasing someone in another Tarantino thread, but Vol. 2 functions as the deconstruction of Vol. 1.
posted by naju at 5:33 PM on January 27, 2014
The lack of a climax is very much the point, yes? I think I'm paraphrasing someone in another Tarantino thread, but Vol. 2 functions as the deconstruction of Vol. 1.
posted by naju at 5:33 PM on January 27, 2014
I was gonna make a joke about taunting Tarantino but that sort of sounds like Taun Taun in my head and now I need to go watch Star Wars.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 5:45 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 5:45 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Tarantino disappearing up his own ass.
The Human Quentipede
posted by dephlogisticated at 5:45 PM on January 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
The Human Quentipede
posted by dephlogisticated at 5:45 PM on January 27, 2014 [21 favorites]
"Because it was so goddamned bad and boring and clearly not even a tenth of the movie that any given 15 minute segment of Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained is that one might take you for a troll."
HOW IS THE WEATHER IN THE NEGAVERSE?
The bloodshed is usually ultra-stylized and gleefully ironic, and in his recent movies, pointed barbs at the viewer on some level. It's not just brainlessly violent schlock"
Meh. It gets to all be pretty samey, especially if you've seen many of the same movies he has. What bugs me more — to the extent that I had kinda forgotten about it in Pulp Fiction and was really taken aback when I saw it recently — is the casual, tone-deaf racism. That's really schlocky and awkward to watch.
posted by klangklangston at 5:46 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
HOW IS THE WEATHER IN THE NEGAVERSE?
The bloodshed is usually ultra-stylized and gleefully ironic, and in his recent movies, pointed barbs at the viewer on some level. It's not just brainlessly violent schlock"
Meh. It gets to all be pretty samey, especially if you've seen many of the same movies he has. What bugs me more — to the extent that I had kinda forgotten about it in Pulp Fiction and was really taken aback when I saw it recently — is the casual, tone-deaf racism. That's really schlocky and awkward to watch.
posted by klangklangston at 5:46 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
If I had a reputation to maintain as part of my career, and had written something and showed it in early draft form to a few folks I respected and trusted, and one of them leaked it to an internet full of people who might mock my totally-not-ready-for-public-consumption script as if it were shooting-ready? Yeah, I'd be pissed too.
posted by davejay at 5:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by davejay at 5:57 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
Haven't seen Pulp Fiction in a looong time, but what were the examples of racism you saw, Klang? I don't remember that, but it is 20 years old now so could easily have been a lack of awareness of my teenage self
posted by Hoopo at 6:10 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by Hoopo at 6:10 PM on January 27, 2014
I mean, Tarantino has decided that he has n-word privileges, which could be seen as racist. There's the whole "Tony Rocky-Horror" thing. And I feel like Christopher Walken throws out some Asian racial epithets.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 6:13 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by enjoymoreradio at 6:13 PM on January 27, 2014
Anything that messes up Nick Denton's day is okay in my book.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 6:30 PM on January 27, 2014
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 6:30 PM on January 27, 2014
"Haven't seen Pulp Fiction in a looong time, but what were the examples of racism you saw, Klang? I don't remember that, but it is 20 years old now so could easily have been a lack of awareness of my teenage self"
The very beginning is racist Tim Roth complaining about "gooks," "slopes" and "Jews." And what was cringe-worthy at the time (Tarantino himself talking about "dead nigger storage") is just flatly terrible now — he might know how to spell "nigger," but he certainly doesn't know how to say it in a way that comes across as anything but specifically trying to be casual with an awkward, unnatural word.
Then there's Tarantino's bullshit defense: "As a writer, I demand the right to write any character in the world that I want to write. I demand the right to be them, I demand the right to think them and I demand the right to tell the truth as I see they are, all right? And to say that I can't do that because I'm white, but the Hughes Brothers can do that because they're black, that is racist. That is the heart of racism, all right. And I do not accept that ... That is how a segment of the black community that lives in Compton, lives in Inglewood, where Jackie Brown takes place, that lives in Carson, that is how they talk. I'm telling the truth. It would not be questioned if I was black, and I resent the question because I'm white. I have the right to tell the truth. I do not have the right to lie."
Yeah, yeah, it's reverse racism to not drop casual n-bombs, Quentin.
At the time, it was something that read to me as clumsy but forgivable in the overall pastiche. Now, it's just fucking wack. I don't think there's a better word for it, a word that more completely sums up Tarantino's casual racism — completely wack.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
The very beginning is racist Tim Roth complaining about "gooks," "slopes" and "Jews." And what was cringe-worthy at the time (Tarantino himself talking about "dead nigger storage") is just flatly terrible now — he might know how to spell "nigger," but he certainly doesn't know how to say it in a way that comes across as anything but specifically trying to be casual with an awkward, unnatural word.
Then there's Tarantino's bullshit defense: "As a writer, I demand the right to write any character in the world that I want to write. I demand the right to be them, I demand the right to think them and I demand the right to tell the truth as I see they are, all right? And to say that I can't do that because I'm white, but the Hughes Brothers can do that because they're black, that is racist. That is the heart of racism, all right. And I do not accept that ... That is how a segment of the black community that lives in Compton, lives in Inglewood, where Jackie Brown takes place, that lives in Carson, that is how they talk. I'm telling the truth. It would not be questioned if I was black, and I resent the question because I'm white. I have the right to tell the truth. I do not have the right to lie."
Yeah, yeah, it's reverse racism to not drop casual n-bombs, Quentin.
At the time, it was something that read to me as clumsy but forgivable in the overall pastiche. Now, it's just fucking wack. I don't think there's a better word for it, a word that more completely sums up Tarantino's casual racism — completely wack.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
but I'm terribly troubled that there's a muse out there who inspires hilarious bullets to the kneecap and, you know, just buckets and buckets of blood.
There used to be, and his name was Roger Corman.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:39 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
There used to be, and his name was Roger Corman.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:39 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
DO NOT SPEAK ITS NAME
posted by JHarris at 6:51 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 6:51 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
> I was heartbroken when I found out it would have been shot in 70mm. I would have loved that.
> Tarantino doesn't ever want to shoot on digital cameras, and claims he'd rather stop directing than quit shooting on celluloid.
But where would it have been exhibited on film at all, let alone 70mm? Sure, you get some film-look shooting on film even if it's exhibited with DLP, but how "pure" can you be in today's market? Does anyone even do conventional color timing anymore?
posted by morganw at 7:16 PM on January 27, 2014
> Tarantino doesn't ever want to shoot on digital cameras, and claims he'd rather stop directing than quit shooting on celluloid.
But where would it have been exhibited on film at all, let alone 70mm? Sure, you get some film-look shooting on film even if it's exhibited with DLP, but how "pure" can you be in today's market? Does anyone even do conventional color timing anymore?
posted by morganw at 7:16 PM on January 27, 2014
"As a writer, I demand the right to write any character in the world that I want to write. I demand the right to be them, I demand the right to think them and I demand the right to tell the truth as I see they are, all right? And to say that I can't do that because I'm white, but the Hughes Brothers can do that because they're black, that is racist. That is the heart of racism, all right. And I do not accept that ... That is how a segment of the black community that lives in Compton, lives in Inglewood, where Jackie Brown takes place, that lives in Carson, that is how they talk. I'm telling the truth. It would not be questioned if I was black, and I resent the question because I'm white. I have the right to tell the truth. I do not have the right to lie."
FTFQ.
posted by crossoverman at 7:23 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
FTFQ.
posted by crossoverman at 7:23 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]
morganw, The Master played a bunch of places in honest-to-god 70mm [source]. (The first Chicago screening sold out a 700 seat theater in about 12 minutes!)
posted by bubukaba at 7:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by bubukaba at 7:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's like nobody in here realizes that Inglorious Basterds is an outright masterpiece.
posted by nathancaswell at 7:51 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by nathancaswell at 7:51 PM on January 27, 2014 [4 favorites]
That is how a segment of the black community that lives in Compton, lives in Inglewood, where Jackie Brown takes place, that lives in Carson, that is how they talk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Quentin. Now explain how they talk like that in Toluca Lake.
posted by scody at 7:53 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Quentin. Now explain how they talk like that in Toluca Lake.
posted by scody at 7:53 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
That first scene of Basterds is something I had no idea Tarantino had in him (probably because he never had Christoph Waltz at his disposal before) and I will never ever get tired of it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:55 PM on January 27, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:55 PM on January 27, 2014 [10 favorites]
rocketman: "Everybody in that movie is fighting getting older, slower, falling behind, and it's a really beautiful meditation on age."
It really is, and the Forster-Grier relationship is very sweet, which is an unusual emotion for Tarantino to evoke. The aging stuff is actually pretty funny considering it was the 3rd movie directed by someone who must have been in his early 30s when he wrote it.
posted by Copronymus at 8:02 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
It really is, and the Forster-Grier relationship is very sweet, which is an unusual emotion for Tarantino to evoke. The aging stuff is actually pretty funny considering it was the 3rd movie directed by someone who must have been in his early 30s when he wrote it.
posted by Copronymus at 8:02 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Because it was so goddamned bad and boring and clearly not even a tenth of the movie that any given 15 minute segment of Inglourious Basterds or Django Unchained is that one might take you for a troll.
This is madness. Jackie Brown is Quentin's best movie and the only one that doesn't become tiresome after two viewings. I'd take it over the rest of his work combined.
posted by dobbs at 8:13 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
This is madness. Jackie Brown is Quentin's best movie and the only one that doesn't become tiresome after two viewings. I'd take it over the rest of his work combined.
posted by dobbs at 8:13 PM on January 27, 2014 [5 favorites]
Hoisted by your own petard.
Tarantino does not own a computer,
do you think Zed just betrayed the fact that he is the leaker by mentioning Tarantino's lack of computer security on his non-existent computer? Or did you just like the sound of the word 'petard'?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 8:41 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Tarantino does not own a computer,
do you think Zed just betrayed the fact that he is the leaker by mentioning Tarantino's lack of computer security on his non-existent computer? Or did you just like the sound of the word 'petard'?
posted by the agents of KAOS at 8:41 PM on January 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Mark me down as being in the Inglourious Basterds camp.
One cannot simply do alt-history with an entirely straight and earnest face, cf. Delillo's Underworld which even today makes me want to go find a copy just so I can throw it up against the wall.
What Tarantino did with Basterds, from the first amazing scene showing off Waltz's charisma and turn-on-a-dime range to the meta-inside-meta climax that both tickles the audience's ultraviolence glands at the very same moment that it is indicting them -- he never did with any of his other films, at least with anything approaching the same level of panache.
I see Basterds as Tarantino's equivalent to NIN's Year Zero. He reached far outside of his normal comfort zone (though a cursory watch/listen doesn't really indicate it) and struck artistic gold. It's just a shame that, like with Year Zero, it didn't quite strike most people at the right angle.
posted by chimaera at 8:43 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
One cannot simply do alt-history with an entirely straight and earnest face, cf. Delillo's Underworld which even today makes me want to go find a copy just so I can throw it up against the wall.
What Tarantino did with Basterds, from the first amazing scene showing off Waltz's charisma and turn-on-a-dime range to the meta-inside-meta climax that both tickles the audience's ultraviolence glands at the very same moment that it is indicting them -- he never did with any of his other films, at least with anything approaching the same level of panache.
I see Basterds as Tarantino's equivalent to NIN's Year Zero. He reached far outside of his normal comfort zone (though a cursory watch/listen doesn't really indicate it) and struck artistic gold. It's just a shame that, like with Year Zero, it didn't quite strike most people at the right angle.
posted by chimaera at 8:43 PM on January 27, 2014 [6 favorites]
"PETARD" DERIVES FROM THE OLD FRENCH WORD FOR "FART"
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 10:42 PM on January 27, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's also current French slang for a joint.
posted by Wolof at 12:36 AM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Wolof at 12:36 AM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Cheers, the Internet. I await your explanation of why this is actually awesomeBecause that's your dog fighting over there not mine.
posted by fullerine at 3:23 AM on January 28, 2014
This thread is the most I've ever heard people talk about Jackie Brown, ever. I mostly remember it as "Quentin Tarantino's disappointing follow-up to Pulp Fiction". Like, where Pulp Fiction was slick, tight, and engaging, Jackie Brown was sort of long, slow, and boring. Or at least it seemed so at the time. It could have just been we were expecting another Pulp Fiction and didn't get it. Someone explained to me how it was a send-up of a genre I had never been exposed to, and I just kinda shrugged it off.
One cannot simply do alt-history with an entirely straight and earnest face, cf. Delillo's Underworld which even today makes me want to go find a copy just so I can throw it up against the wall.
Could you please explain this criticism? I've never heard it before and don't see where you're coming from.
posted by evil otto at 4:52 AM on January 28, 2014
One cannot simply do alt-history with an entirely straight and earnest face, cf. Delillo's Underworld which even today makes me want to go find a copy just so I can throw it up against the wall.
Could you please explain this criticism? I've never heard it before and don't see where you're coming from.
posted by evil otto at 4:52 AM on January 28, 2014
And the phrase is hoist, not hoisted. At least according to Shakespeare.
Who is loads better than Tarantino, and whose violence is not gleefully ironic.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:09 AM on January 28, 2014
Who is loads better than Tarantino, and whose violence is not gleefully ironic.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:09 AM on January 28, 2014
I think Tarentino's real gift is thinking of actors who were actually really good but for whatever reason haven't done much lately.
His long chatty scenes work only if you've got someone with big-time star power doing them. (I don't mean star power in the business sense, but in the "Holy crap do I love looking at this actor" sense.) His half of Grindhouse had a big hole in it where the antipodal stunt lady was. Really, nothing against her, but she just didn't hold the camera.
And chops, too. You've got to be up to those scenes as an actor. Myself, I don't think Pitt was up to his part in Basterds. Or, at least between Pitt and QT, they should have known enough to scrap that P.O.S. accent on the first day shooting. Movie stars are usually just themselves and you love them. Willis is always Willis. Clooney is always Clooney. Cary Grant was always just Cary Grant. Nicholson. Bogey. And yes, Travolta (not often a guy gets to waste his gifts twice in a career.)
Tarentino's actors make his movies work, when they work.
So: Regarding this issue: I don't think it's that big of a deal about the script.
posted by Trochanter at 7:11 AM on January 28, 2014
His long chatty scenes work only if you've got someone with big-time star power doing them. (I don't mean star power in the business sense, but in the "Holy crap do I love looking at this actor" sense.) His half of Grindhouse had a big hole in it where the antipodal stunt lady was. Really, nothing against her, but she just didn't hold the camera.
And chops, too. You've got to be up to those scenes as an actor. Myself, I don't think Pitt was up to his part in Basterds. Or, at least between Pitt and QT, they should have known enough to scrap that P.O.S. accent on the first day shooting. Movie stars are usually just themselves and you love them. Willis is always Willis. Clooney is always Clooney. Cary Grant was always just Cary Grant. Nicholson. Bogey. And yes, Travolta (not often a guy gets to waste his gifts twice in a career.)
Tarentino's actors make his movies work, when they work.
So: Regarding this issue: I don't think it's that big of a deal about the script.
posted by Trochanter at 7:11 AM on January 28, 2014
I think Tarentino's real gift is thinking of actors who were actually really good but for whatever reason haven't done much lately.
I'm actually wondering if that isn't the weak link here.
So you find out that your D-list actor boss is OMG MAYBE GOING TO BE IN THE NEW TARANTINO MOVIE.
And then... a script arrives. Obviously your boss makes you print it out, or highlight all his lines, or schlep it around, or otherwise interact in some way with the script.
You make $400 a week working on a semi-freelance basis for this has-been actor who, yeah. You realize that you are holding something in your hands that is worth more than you'll make this year. And, hell, maybe you don't even like your boss. Maybe you've already got your eye on a new job, or you reason that, with what you could get for this script, you could have a nice cushion to find something new.
And, look. Nobody even watermarked the script. It couldn't be easier.
You can't say that wouldn't be tempting.
posted by Sara C. at 9:00 AM on January 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm actually wondering if that isn't the weak link here.
So you find out that your D-list actor boss is OMG MAYBE GOING TO BE IN THE NEW TARANTINO MOVIE.
And then... a script arrives. Obviously your boss makes you print it out, or highlight all his lines, or schlep it around, or otherwise interact in some way with the script.
You make $400 a week working on a semi-freelance basis for this has-been actor who, yeah. You realize that you are holding something in your hands that is worth more than you'll make this year. And, hell, maybe you don't even like your boss. Maybe you've already got your eye on a new job, or you reason that, with what you could get for this script, you could have a nice cushion to find something new.
And, look. Nobody even watermarked the script. It couldn't be easier.
You can't say that wouldn't be tempting.
posted by Sara C. at 9:00 AM on January 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
and whose violence is not gleefully ironic.
yeah but it's plenty graphic and gratuitous though
posted by Hoopo at 9:02 AM on January 28, 2014
yeah but it's plenty graphic and gratuitous though
posted by Hoopo at 9:02 AM on January 28, 2014
Also, holy shit does this script superficially resemble long-unproduced development hell indie darling The Brigands Of Rattleborge.
posted by Sara C. at 9:03 AM on January 28, 2014
posted by Sara C. at 9:03 AM on January 28, 2014
I dunno, I didn't really like Inglourious Basterds nearly as much as KB (or Jackie Brown, which is a sublime movie from start to finish). It had moments, for sure, but 95% of those moments were Cristoph Waltz being astounding.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:28 AM on January 28, 2014
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:28 AM on January 28, 2014
where the antipodal stunt lady was. Really, nothing against her, but she just didn't hold the camera.
I'm sorry but what? The camera loved her. She was the most honest, naturalistic thing about that entire movie.
I think Tarentino's real gift is thinking of actors who were actually really good but for whatever reason haven't done much lately.
I would refine that to QT's gift being finding actors who have one good performance in them and sucking it out. Travolta in Pulp Fiction, Russell in Death Proof, Hannah in KB, etc.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:37 AM on January 28, 2014
I'm sorry but what? The camera loved her. She was the most honest, naturalistic thing about that entire movie.
I think Tarentino's real gift is thinking of actors who were actually really good but for whatever reason haven't done much lately.
I would refine that to QT's gift being finding actors who have one good performance in them and sucking it out. Travolta in Pulp Fiction, Russell in Death Proof, Hannah in KB, etc.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:37 AM on January 28, 2014
You make $400 a week working on a semi-freelance basis for this has-been actor who, yeah. You realize that you are holding something in your hands that is worth more than you'll make this year. And, hell, maybe you don't even like your boss. Maybe you've already got your eye on a new job, or you reason that, with what you could get for this script, you could have a nice cushion to find something new.
How do you know his name? Why the fuck does he know your name? You piece of shit. You can forget about acting for the next twenty years, your fucking career is over. Take your fucking SAG card and burn it. You little cocksucker. I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:02 AM on January 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
How do you know his name? Why the fuck does he know your name? You piece of shit. You can forget about acting for the next twenty years, your fucking career is over. Take your fucking SAG card and burn it. You little cocksucker. I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:02 AM on January 28, 2014 [4 favorites]
The camera loved her. She was the most honest, naturalistic thing about that entire movie
Also it was a essentially a B-movie made by an A-list director. The weird pacing and pervy camera work and bad dialog and general trashiness were completely intentional and pretty much the entire point. I get if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but a huge part of being able to enjoy Tarantino in general is to not over-think it, and at least to some degree almost take it at face value as a bit of fun garbage. Yeah, a lot of other things are going on in most of his movies. There's usually a staggering amount of obscure references only film nerds would catch. He also does interesting things with the relationship of the audience to the film itself. But if you're not able to actually watch and laugh at the trashy, fun spectacle of it, you're gonna have a bad time.
posted by Hoopo at 10:04 AM on January 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
Also it was a essentially a B-movie made by an A-list director. The weird pacing and pervy camera work and bad dialog and general trashiness were completely intentional and pretty much the entire point. I get if it's not everyone's cup of tea, but a huge part of being able to enjoy Tarantino in general is to not over-think it, and at least to some degree almost take it at face value as a bit of fun garbage. Yeah, a lot of other things are going on in most of his movies. There's usually a staggering amount of obscure references only film nerds would catch. He also does interesting things with the relationship of the audience to the film itself. But if you're not able to actually watch and laugh at the trashy, fun spectacle of it, you're gonna have a bad time.
posted by Hoopo at 10:04 AM on January 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
One cannot simply do alt-history with an entirely straight and earnest face, cf. Delillo's Underworld which even today makes me want to go find a copy just so I can throw it up against the wall.
Could you please explain this criticism? I've never heard it before and don't see where you're coming from.
I'm not clear on the historical distortions of Underworld, but I certainly concur with the throwing it against the wall part. A wonderfully written monster of a book that ultimately didn't seem to add up to anything other than hundreds upon hundreds of pages of riffs in search of a song.
posted by philip-random at 10:08 AM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Could you please explain this criticism? I've never heard it before and don't see where you're coming from.
I'm not clear on the historical distortions of Underworld, but I certainly concur with the throwing it against the wall part. A wonderfully written monster of a book that ultimately didn't seem to add up to anything other than hundreds upon hundreds of pages of riffs in search of a song.
posted by philip-random at 10:08 AM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Allegedly facilitating dissemination" is a thing?
Could be worse; he could always be turning into Orson Scott Card.
ABOSC. A. Always B. Be (turning into) O. Orson S. Scott C. Card.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:29 AM on January 28, 2014
Could be worse; he could always be turning into Orson Scott Card.
ABOSC. A. Always B. Be (turning into) O. Orson S. Scott C. Card.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:29 AM on January 28, 2014
"Allegedly facilitating dissemination" is a thing?
I think it's basically how they go after torrent sites actually
posted by Hoopo at 11:38 AM on January 28, 2014
I think it's basically how they go after torrent sites actually
posted by Hoopo at 11:38 AM on January 28, 2014
Also it was a essentially a B-movie made by an A-list director. The weird pacing and pervy camera work and bad dialog and general trashiness were completely intentional and pretty much the entire point.
The problem was that I found Planet Terror so much better than Death Proof. Luckily enough they weren't distributed together.
posted by ersatz at 12:21 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
The problem was that I found Planet Terror so much better than Death Proof. Luckily enough they weren't distributed together.
posted by ersatz at 12:21 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
> The Master played a bunch of places in honest-to-god 70mm
It sure did. Wow.
posted by morganw at 12:27 PM on January 28, 2014
It sure did. Wow.
70mm, which hasn't been used as an origination format for a narrative feature film in more than a decade.[...]I wonder who, besides PTA, could get a studio to go for 4 processing/printing workflows. Even the FotoKem lab guy thinks an 8K DI rivals chemistry & optical printers.
The existence of a 70mm version of the film raised an obvious question about the provenance of those prints: were they old-school film prints, created with photochemical intermediates rather than the now-standard digital-intermediate process? The answer, it turns out, is an unqualified yes.
posted by morganw at 12:27 PM on January 28, 2014
I saw it in a 70mm projection in an enormous, empty theater in Manhattan. It was awesome, but at some point in the past my eyes decided to forget how to watch film-projected movies and I had to sort of zone out the flicker.
posted by griphus at 12:57 PM on January 28, 2014
posted by griphus at 12:57 PM on January 28, 2014
I'm sorry but what? The camera loved her. She was the most honest, naturalistic thing about that entire movie.
I'd heard a lot of that before I saw the movie. I didn't see it in the movie.
...
Also it was a essentially a B-movie made by an A-list director.
...but a huge part of being able to enjoy Tarantino in general is to not over-think it, and at least to some degree almost take it at face value as a bit of fun garbage.
To me, that doesn't follow. Those sound like things you say when you're talking about B movies, and B movie directors.
posted by Trochanter at 3:12 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'd heard a lot of that before I saw the movie. I didn't see it in the movie.
...
Also it was a essentially a B-movie made by an A-list director.
...but a huge part of being able to enjoy Tarantino in general is to not over-think it, and at least to some degree almost take it at face value as a bit of fun garbage.
To me, that doesn't follow. Those sound like things you say when you're talking about B movies, and B movie directors.
posted by Trochanter at 3:12 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
To me, that doesn't follow
He loves B-movies. He made one in Deathproof, and makes b-movie pastiche with big budgets and A-list actors other times. And he is very, very knowledgeable about film and meticulous about his references when he does it.
posted by Hoopo at 3:44 PM on January 28, 2014
He loves B-movies. He made one in Deathproof, and makes b-movie pastiche with big budgets and A-list actors other times. And he is very, very knowledgeable about film and meticulous about his references when he does it.
posted by Hoopo at 3:44 PM on January 28, 2014
To the extent that some parts of Kill Bill even felt pretty airless because they were so faithful.
posted by klangklangston at 3:49 PM on January 28, 2014
posted by klangklangston at 3:49 PM on January 28, 2014
How do you know his name? Why the fuck does he know your name? You piece of shit. You can forget about acting for the next twenty years, your fucking career is over. Take your fucking SAG card and burn it. You little cocksucker. I treated you like a son. You fucking stab me in the heart.
You would be surprised at the number of people who come to Hollywood and then realize that what they really meant to do was go to law school.
There are also plenty of people who'd be happy to hire The Girl Who Leaked The Tarantino Script, even with a bad reference from The Actor Who Enabled The Leaking Of The Tarantino Script. This isn't a field that is known for scruples and morals, and there are plenty of people who actually want to work for TMZ or a shifty management agency or whatever.
Just to be clear, I'm not condoning any of this, but come on. It's Hollywood.
posted by Sara C. at 3:50 PM on January 28, 2014
You would be surprised at the number of people who come to Hollywood and then realize that what they really meant to do was go to law school.
There are also plenty of people who'd be happy to hire The Girl Who Leaked The Tarantino Script, even with a bad reference from The Actor Who Enabled The Leaking Of The Tarantino Script. This isn't a field that is known for scruples and morals, and there are plenty of people who actually want to work for TMZ or a shifty management agency or whatever.
Just to be clear, I'm not condoning any of this, but come on. It's Hollywood.
posted by Sara C. at 3:50 PM on January 28, 2014
Forget it, Quentin. It's Chinatown.
posted by scody at 4:25 PM on January 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by scody at 4:25 PM on January 28, 2014 [3 favorites]
Tarantino vs. Gawker: When is linking illegal for journalists?
posted by homunculus at 5:35 PM on January 28, 2014
posted by homunculus at 5:35 PM on January 28, 2014
The problem was that I found Planet Terror so much better than Death Proof.
Really? I found PT laughably bad. I know it was B-movie but it wasn't a sendup of the genre, it was just straight up bad. I mean, decent popcorn flick, but Death Proof had actual terror and something... compelling about it.
I mean who is Stuntman Mike and why does he do what he does? There's this giant gaping question mark over his head that never gets answered. But the difference between that and the question marks in Planet Terror is that I actually give a damn about the answers for Death Proof.
I guess what I'm saying is Rodriguez set out to make a splattery B-movie and by and large succeeded. Tarantino set out to make a different kind of B-movie and accidentally (?) made something very interesting instead.
Ten years from now, Death Proof will be a 'classic' and Planet Terror will be a footnote.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:44 PM on January 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
Really? I found PT laughably bad. I know it was B-movie but it wasn't a sendup of the genre, it was just straight up bad. I mean, decent popcorn flick, but Death Proof had actual terror and something... compelling about it.
I mean who is Stuntman Mike and why does he do what he does? There's this giant gaping question mark over his head that never gets answered. But the difference between that and the question marks in Planet Terror is that I actually give a damn about the answers for Death Proof.
I guess what I'm saying is Rodriguez set out to make a splattery B-movie and by and large succeeded. Tarantino set out to make a different kind of B-movie and accidentally (?) made something very interesting instead.
Ten years from now, Death Proof will be a 'classic' and Planet Terror will be a footnote.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:44 PM on January 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm going to sue Tarantino for being insufficiently aware of the Streisand Effect.
posted by dgaicun at 6:31 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by dgaicun at 6:31 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yea, FFFM. I would go so far as to say that if you speak in really vague conceptual terms, Death Proof was far more successful at doing the kind of thing Drive was trying to do than than Drive itself was.
I think it's the difference between something silly and stupid that makes you think, and some weird thinkpiece with a bunch of silly and stupid stuff worked into it.
I don't really know how good this analogy is, but imagine a really good boozy milkshake at a divey diner vs some foo-foo overwrought conceptual white-russian reimagining at a pretentious upscale bar that just kinda falls flat. They both approach dairy+booze in a somewhat non traditional way, but from opposite ends of the spectrum to somewhat try and meet in the middle.
Like the "oh, it's serious and meandering and arty and WOAH VIOLENCE WHAT...oh... now it's weird and plodding and slightly directionless feeling again" of drive vs the "heh, it's silly and violent, wee, hand me another beer... woah... wait... this is actually kinda thought provoking o_0" of death proof.
And yea, then planet terror was just the sillyness of death proof but with the thinky parts pulled out and replaced with even more sillyness. It reminded me a lot of this image and analogy.
I don't know how much this really has to do with the thread, but talking about death proof and planet terror made me think of it. so yea.
posted by emptythought at 7:03 PM on January 28, 2014
I think it's the difference between something silly and stupid that makes you think, and some weird thinkpiece with a bunch of silly and stupid stuff worked into it.
I don't really know how good this analogy is, but imagine a really good boozy milkshake at a divey diner vs some foo-foo overwrought conceptual white-russian reimagining at a pretentious upscale bar that just kinda falls flat. They both approach dairy+booze in a somewhat non traditional way, but from opposite ends of the spectrum to somewhat try and meet in the middle.
Like the "oh, it's serious and meandering and arty and WOAH VIOLENCE WHAT...oh... now it's weird and plodding and slightly directionless feeling again" of drive vs the "heh, it's silly and violent, wee, hand me another beer... woah... wait... this is actually kinda thought provoking o_0" of death proof.
And yea, then planet terror was just the sillyness of death proof but with the thinky parts pulled out and replaced with even more sillyness. It reminded me a lot of this image and analogy.
I don't know how much this really has to do with the thread, but talking about death proof and planet terror made me think of it. so yea.
posted by emptythought at 7:03 PM on January 28, 2014
I saw Planet Terror + Death Proof together in the initial Grindhouse theater run. Loved the former in all of it's nonstop gratuitous going for the jugular, found the latter kind of dull with a few moments of interest, but it was definitely WAY too long. I get that Tarantino was paying homage to a certain kind of mostly aimless, occasionally amazing straight-to-Drive-In 70s b-movie ... but in the end, he lost me in a that-was-then-this-is-now sort of way (except the "now" in question was seven years ago). There just wasn't enough plot ... or something.
posted by philip-random at 7:55 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 7:55 PM on January 28, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think Deathproof was the more successful of the two, just because it encompassed the aesthetic just so much better than Planet Terror did.
PT was a slick, expensive Robert Rodriguez action movie with some color adjustment and a joke about a missing reel. Which is all well and good and I love me a Robert Rodriguez action movie.
Tarantino, meanwhile, made a no-budget (although, obviously, with the requisite shitload of money necessary to pull that off) horror/thriller flick in an alternate universe where the 1970s never ended.
posted by griphus at 9:07 PM on January 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
PT was a slick, expensive Robert Rodriguez action movie with some color adjustment and a joke about a missing reel. Which is all well and good and I love me a Robert Rodriguez action movie.
Tarantino, meanwhile, made a no-budget (although, obviously, with the requisite shitload of money necessary to pull that off) horror/thriller flick in an alternate universe where the 1970s never ended.
posted by griphus at 9:07 PM on January 28, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm going to sue Tarantino for being insufficiently aware of the Streisand Effect.
I think it's more likely he's completely aware of the Streisand Effect and doesn't really consider calling more attention to this screenplay a bad thing. (I'm not suggesting the whole thing is staged or that he's faking his upset, just that he's aware of the effects of publicizing his upset.)
posted by Zed at 11:14 AM on January 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think it's more likely he's completely aware of the Streisand Effect and doesn't really consider calling more attention to this screenplay a bad thing. (I'm not suggesting the whole thing is staged or that he's faking his upset, just that he's aware of the effects of publicizing his upset.)
posted by Zed at 11:14 AM on January 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I, for one, have a healthy suspicion that the leak was, in fact, staged, and that they're halting the development process for some other reason totally unrelated to the script.
This is just such a PR stunt kind of thing. A script I had not previously heard of is "leaked" by *handwave handwave* and opinionated director is OPINIONATED about it. Now I'm suddenly thinking about Tarantino and what his next project is going to be.
Also, for Tarantino fans who follow his career, this is a nice pat resolution to a Development Hell situation. And it makes Tarantino himself look good, rather than looking like someone who failed to get a project off the ground for whatever reason.
Frankly, the idea that this is completely fabricated out of whole cloth is a brilliant idea.
posted by Sara C. at 11:38 AM on January 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
This is just such a PR stunt kind of thing. A script I had not previously heard of is "leaked" by *handwave handwave* and opinionated director is OPINIONATED about it. Now I'm suddenly thinking about Tarantino and what his next project is going to be.
Also, for Tarantino fans who follow his career, this is a nice pat resolution to a Development Hell situation. And it makes Tarantino himself look good, rather than looking like someone who failed to get a project off the ground for whatever reason.
Frankly, the idea that this is completely fabricated out of whole cloth is a brilliant idea.
posted by Sara C. at 11:38 AM on January 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
Frankly, the idea that this is completely fabricated out of whole cloth is a brilliant idea.
Oh, you're a bad pony, Quentin. And I'm not gonna bet on you.
posted by scody at 12:25 PM on January 29, 2014
Oh, you're a bad pony, Quentin. And I'm not gonna bet on you.
posted by scody at 12:25 PM on January 29, 2014
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posted by The Whelk at 2:35 PM on January 27, 2014 [3 favorites]