Like, Degrading the Language? No Way

April 6, 2014 5:37 PM

We may not speak with the butter-toned exchanges of the characters on “Downton Abbey,” but in substance our speech is in many ways more civilized.... We are taught to celebrate the idea that Inuit languages reveal a unique relationship to snow, or that the Russian language’s separate words for dark and light blue mean that a Russian sees blueberries and robin’s eggs as more vibrantly different in color than the rest of us do. Isn’t it welcome, then, that good old-fashioned American is saying something cool about us for once? - John McWhorter on colloquial American English (SLNYTIMES)

IF there is one thing that unites Americans of all stripes, it is the belief that, whatever progress our country might be making, we are moving backward on language. Just look at the crusty discourse level of comments sections and the recreational choppiness of text messages and hit pop songs.

However, amid what often seems like the slack-jawed devolution of a once-mighty language, we can find evidence for, of all things, a growing sophistication.

posted by beisny (53 comments total)

Much as I like McWhorter, he is very much the Popular Linguistics of the scene. Power of Babel is nevertheless a very interesting read.
posted by angerbot at 6:01 PM on April 6, 2014

We seem to use so many more words to get the same point across though. We aren't efficient in our language. I compare it to the eloquent language used in 12 Years a Slave which was both precise and poetic.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:12 PM on April 6, 2014

Leading with the "like" and "totally" examples made me go back to the timestamp to see if it was from the archives, from like 1983 or something.

Also, I hate people who use lol like a goddamn punctuation mark. Your tweet or status update doesn't need an lol on the end. Except maybe to confuse olds who think lol stands for lots of love.
posted by birdherder at 6:18 PM on April 6, 2014

I compare it to the eloquent language used in 12 Years a Slave which was both precise and poetic.

And that doesn't measure up when you compare it to how the ancient Romans spoke in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:24 PM on April 6, 2014 [27 favorites]

His reading of "because X" surprised me and doesn't really track with how I understand it, but I thought this was a delightful and humane article. I really hope this thread doesn't just turn into the standard jockeying for best englisher at the expense of perfectly cromulent linguistic trends.
posted by invitapriore at 6:29 PM on April 6, 2014 [6 favorites]

Reading that made me feel really old, and I had a mental image of myself shaking my thirty-years-in-the-future cane at him.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:50 PM on April 6, 2014

I actually quite like his point about the shift in conversational taboos. It suggests to me that, as a society, we are starting to finally get our shit together.
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:02 PM on April 6, 2014 [4 favorites]

Also, I hate people who use lol like a goddamn punctuation mark. Your tweet or status update doesn't need an lol on the end. Except maybe to confuse olds who think lol stands for lots of love.

The lol at the end often serves a particular, pragmatic purpose. There's a difference in meaning between:

I ate all of my girl scout cookies lol

And:
I ate all of my girl scout cookies

And:
I ate all of my girl scout cookies.

And
I ate all of my girl scout cookies :(

These meaning differences are just as subtle and nuanced as the different meanings conveyed by, let's say, "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute" said with different tones of voice.
posted by damayanti at 7:07 PM on April 6, 2014 [33 favorites]

I also reflexively dislike the "lol punctuation" but agree with the above comment. Sometimes it's really the only efficient way to get the point across. In the above example the equivalent would be:

I ate all the Girl Scout cookies, but I didn't really mean to and I'm laughing at myself right now a little bit so don't think I'm weird.
posted by chaz at 7:12 PM on April 6, 2014 [4 favorites]

ok, chaz, now please parse "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute lol"
posted by fredludd at 7:16 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]

We are like totally way more concise nowadays. I mean, this is supposed to be like the pinnacle of mid-19th-c. American English, but it's the furthest thing from efficient, never mind the racism:

Though in many natural objects, whiteness refiningly enhances beauty, as if imparting some special virtue of its own, as in marbles, japonicas, and pearls; and though various nations have in some way recognised a certain royal preeminence in this hue; even the barbaric, grand old kings of Pegu placing the title "Lord of the White Elephants" above all their other magniloquent ascriptions of dominion; and the modern kings of Siam unfurling the same snow-white quadruped in the royal standard; and the Hanoverian flag bearing the one figure of a snow-white charger; and the great Austrian Empire, Caesarian, heir to overlording Rome, having for the imperial colour the same imperial hue; and though this pre-eminence in it applies to the human race itself, giving the white man ideal mastership over every dusky tribe; and though, besides, all this, whiteness has been even made significant of gladness, for among the Romans a white stone marked a joyful day; and though in other mortal sympathies and symbolizings, this same hue is made the emblem of many touching, noble things—the innocence of brides, the benignity of age; though among the Red Men of America the giving of the white belt of wampum was the deepest pledge of honour; though in many climes, whiteness typifies the majesty of Justice in the ermine of the Judge, and contributes to the daily state of kings and queens drawn by milk-white steeds; though even in the higher mysteries of the most august religions it has been made the symbol of the divine spotlessness and power; by the Persian fire worshippers, the white forked flame being held the holiest on the altar; and in the Greek mythologies, Great Jove himself being made incarnate in a snow-white bull; and though to the noble Iroquois, the midwinter sacrifice of the sacred White Dog was by far the holiest festival of their theology, that spotless, faithful creature being held the purest envoy they could send to the Great Spirit with the annual tidings of their own fidelity; and though directly from the Latin word for white, all Christian priests derive the name of one part of their sacred vesture, the alb or tunic, worn beneath the cassock; and though among the holy pomps of the Romish faith, white is specially employed in the celebration of the Passion of our Lord; though in the Vision of St. John, white robes are given to the redeemed, and the four-and-twenty elders stand clothed in white before the great-white throne, and the Holy One that sitteth there white like wool; yet for all these accumulated associations, with whatever is sweet, and honourable, and sublime, there yet lurks an elusive something in the innermost idea of this hue, which strikes more of panic to the soul than that redness which affrights in blood.

posted by mubba at 7:17 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]

I'm pretty much a choir member that doesn't need to hear the sermon again, but we can see in this very thread that others do. So that's all well and good.
posted by kavasa at 7:20 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]

how long until someone links to the taylor mali poem
posted by Baby_Balrog at 7:27 PM on April 6, 2014

Great. Now I want Girl Scout cookies. And that birdhearder is in trouble at work. lmfao.
posted by birdherder at 7:33 PM on April 6, 2014 [8 favorites]

Birdherder can I see you in my office for a minute lol
Because I'm one of those "Cool" bosses.
;0
posted by bleep at 7:36 PM on April 6, 2014 [4 favorites]

Tubular.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:43 PM on April 6, 2014

His reading of "because X" surprised me and doesn't really track with how I understand it

Yeah, I really don't get his reading either.

“ ‘Five Second Rule’ May Be Real, Because Science,” a blogger noted recently. The usage has a specific meaning, implying a wariness toward claims of scientific backing that all readers presumably understand when, in this case, it comes to whether we can actually always feel safe eating food off the floor. We consider the views of others, we step outside of our own heads. “Because X” is another new way to say “we’re all in this together.”

Really? I don't even know what he's getting at -- "Five second rule may be real, who knows about these science reports, we're all in this together"? I'm pretty sure "because X" means, essentially, "I don't really have to explain it to you, right? We agree that the nuances and the details don't matter here." So

‘Five Second Rule’ May Be Real, Because Science

means

Somebody did some science and said the five-second rule is real! That's all you need to know, right? You don't care to read about their experimental methodology and stuff, and we don't care to write about it.

I went through all the examples in this here article in the Atlantic, and this interpretation just makes the most sense for all of them. Some are in earnest, some are sarcastic, but all of them are basically "obviously, explanations are unnecessary".
posted by narain at 8:02 PM on April 6, 2014 [11 favorites]

The rest of the article is pretty great, though. The bit about how the real taboo words now aren't religious oaths or even profanity, but rather hateful slurs against victims of prejudice? A fantastic point.
posted by narain at 8:10 PM on April 6, 2014 [2 favorites]

that the Russian language’s separate words for dark and light blue

I hadn't heard this. Interesting, because of course in the US we distinguish light red from darker reds, and treat it culturally as a profoundly different color: a macho badass will paint his car red, but never pink, even though it's just plain light red. I've wondered why we don't do anything remotely similar with the light versions of the other primary and secondary colors.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:40 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]

Jeez, he seems wrong about 'like,' 'totally,' and 'because x.' Neither 'like' nor 'totally' necessarily acknowledge some kind of implicit or even hypothetical denial. And the 'because x' bit seems totally botched. Those paragraphs seem to suggest something of a tin ear...

And it's very, very, very unlikely that Russians see blues differently than we do. If anybody really is teaching anybody to "celebrate" such a thing, they might want to stop doing so.

I have to say, I didn't think this was very good.
posted by Fists O'Fury at 8:43 PM on April 6, 2014

I think "Because science" can be treated as a diminution of something along the lines of "because of like science and shit". What's fun about both long and short versions of this is that it can be sarcastic: "saying it's science makes it so"; or sincere: "apparently scientists have looked into this but I'm not clear on/willing to go into the details". It's not so much a new usage as a pared down version of something we did already.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:49 PM on April 6, 2014 [6 favorites]

ok, chaz, now please parse "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute lol"

ummmmmm i just wanted to check in w/ u to see how this job is going for u??

maybe u have been thinking about whether its a good fit or not, idk, weve been thinking about that too hehe..

anyway lol dont worry about it have a great weekend :p
posted by threeants at 9:04 PM on April 6, 2014 [23 favorites]

of course in the US we distinguish light red from darker reds, and treat it culturally as a profoundly different color... I've wondered why we don't do anything remotely similar with the light versions of the other primary and secondary colors.

I've always thought it odd that we consider orange and brown to be entirely different colours, when brown is basically just dark orange.

If we're going to discuss this, it'll probably help to be more precise than "light" and "dark". Russian has different words for blue and sky-blue, which differ in hue, not lightness. Pink on the other hand is a tint of red. Brown is more of a tone of orange.
posted by narain at 9:20 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]

Slight tangent on style changes in writing (not texting): I think the influence of strunk and white is strong. Any non fiction article written by someone under 40 is likely written in conversational tone with almost militant avoidance of complicated syntax or obscure words.

Personally I think this is a good thing. I hate when I have to parse some god awful ten line sentences to understand the authors point. Especially in a dry technical subject where florid language is completely unnecessary. Even great thinkers succumbed to it. Read "politics and the English language" by George Orwell.

However, Excessive simplicity starts to feel insulting. I've noticed this in the tech blogger community. I'm not a freshman in your intro class, OK?
posted by scose at 9:28 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]

ok, chaz, now please parse "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute lol"

I have an (over 50 years old) friend who is apparently constitutionally unable to text or email me without adding a smiley at the end regardless of whether the message warrants it or not:

ok I'll give you a call this weekend :)
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:43 PM on April 6, 2014

Language is a tool--a really powerful tool. Like any powerful tool, it can be used with ruthless efficiency; yet it serves many purposes.

In some contexts, ruthless efficiency is critical--e.g., a legal brief that the judge must read in 20 minutes.

For other purposes, language can be pure art--e.g., an exercise in impressionism--or a social signal--e.g. simply a way to say "Hi, I'm, like, a friendly person who would enjoy chatting with you about something mundane." In those contexts, subtext may be more important than efficiency.

Let's stop treating grammar, syntax and vocabulary as some kind of morally or intellectually superior set of decisions. We're smarter than that. LOL.
posted by mikeand1 at 9:56 PM on April 6, 2014 [7 favorites]

ok, chaz, now please parse "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute lol"

I have an (over 50 years old) friend who is apparently constitutionally unable to text or email me without adding a smiley at the end regardless of whether the message warrants it or not:

ok I'll give you a call this weekend :)
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:43 PM on April 7 [+] [!]

I have an acquaintance who is apparently just incapable of not ending any given text message with an ellipsis, leading me to expect some sort of bad news literally every time she texts me.
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:53 PM on April 6, 2014 [3 favorites]

Fists O'Fury: "Jeez, he seems wrong about 'like,' 'totally,' and 'because x.' Neither 'like' nor 'totally' necessarily acknowledge some kind of implicit or even hypothetical denial. And the 'because x' bit seems totally botched. Those paragraphs seem to suggest something of a tin ear..."

He explained these things really well - and I'm kind of wondering what on earth you mean. "Totally," in my world, totally does acknowledge an implicit denial. "Oh, don't worry - he's totally going to call you." "I don't know what the committee was talking about; that death-ray experiment was totally above-board." I'm struggling to come up with plausible colloquial examples that don't conform to his formula. Can you provide any? Same with "like;" it's almost always used as a sort of hesitating stop, and when I use it myself it's always to soften the blow of a sentence that might seem abrupt otherwise, although I never noticed I was doing that before. I kind of like seeing that sort of elucidated, since it conforms so nicely to reality.

I think "because X" was a tiny stretch, but only because as far as I can tell it's overwhelmingly "because science" and rarely anything else, which changes the tenor of it a bit and (frankly) annoys me with it's off-the-cuff unthought scientism.

"And it's very, very, very unlikely that Russians see blues differently than we do. If anybody really is teaching anybody to 'celebrate' such a thing, they might want to stop doing so."

That was precisely the point. Precisely the point. He also mentioned that "we are taught" the silly old canard about Native Alaskans having many different words for snow, which everyone (including the author here) knows is reductive hogwash at this point.
posted by koeselitz at 11:34 PM on April 6, 2014 [1 favorite]

Punctuating with "lol" is pretty bad, yes, but I'd give a lot of money to see my Australian and British (primarily female) friends stop ending every sentence with "x". At least the "lol" punctuation seems to be limited to American-English-speaking people who are already being casual/informal in their writing; the "x" punctuation can be tacked onto the end of an otherwise completely normal sentence, and I find it very jarring.

Also don't understand why "because x" needs explanation.

"...Americans started saying white and dark meat to avoid mentioning breasts and limbs."

OH MY GOD THIS EXPLAINS WHY NONE OF MY NON-US FRIENDS HAVE EVER HEARD THE WHITE/DARK MEAT THING! I feel so enlightened!
posted by olinerd at 1:14 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]

Totally *can* be used sarcastically, sure, but it doesn't have to be.

"Look at this trailer! I am totally going to see this movie!" can simply mean "I am going to see this movie."
posted by kyrademon at 3:55 AM on April 7, 2014

Also, I automatically assumed that "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute" was a sex thing. Therefore "birdhearder, I'd like to see you in my office for just a minute lol" was from someone who knew they weren't actually fooling anybody anyway.

This method of interpretation may be why I don't work in an office anymore.
posted by kyrademon at 3:59 AM on April 7, 2014

The variations of interpretations for contemporary uses of "like" and "totally" and "because x" are giving me a new appreciation for why people here can begin saying relatively innocuous things and end up at each other's throats within an hour.
posted by ardgedee at 4:04 AM on April 7, 2014 [5 favorites]

For whatever it's worth, this is where I first knowingly encountered the "because x" construction: the Three Word Phrase comic with the punchline "I want this because of reasons".

"Because of reasons" still has the preposition "of" in place, but the whole phrase is used in the same way "because x" is: To preempt and wave away further inquiry (or to sarcastically mimic somebody else doing that).
posted by ardgedee at 4:16 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]

I liked this, but surely "like" and "totally" are just substitutes for earlier phrases that did the same thing?
posted by steinsaltz at 7:09 AM on April 7, 2014

When I studied German we gave serious attention to "flavoring particles", like "aber, auch, denn, doch, halt, mal, nur, schon and sometimes ja". They're adverbs and

are often a source of errors and misunderstanding for even intermediate learners of German. The main source of problems is the fact that each one of these words can have multiple meanings and functions in different contexts or situations.

As their name suggest, they're sometimes hard to translate with a single word, and instead function to impart a particular flavor to a sentence, like raising your eyebrows when you talk.

That seems like a good description of how lots of the words in the article are used, but people don't seem to want to give them legitimacy in English. I'm not sure why.

(As a fun example, the twitter account @NeinQuarterly translates the particle eben as

German for "I congratulate you on being nearly as intelligent as I am, at least in this one particular instance.")

posted by benito.strauss at 7:44 AM on April 7, 2014 [3 favorites]

I hate hate hate the because [.....] trend. It sounds horrible and it's symptomatic of general intellectual laziness. Furthermore it doesn't save many words. I don't understand why people can't just type "because of...." or "just because."

I decided to move to NYC because reasons.

I decided to move to NYC because of personal reasons.
I decided to move to NYC just because.
.................................. for various reasons.

The workplace broke down because politics.

The workplace broke down because of politics.

This isn't rocket science people. What's next? Soon we stop talking with definite article, sound like Natasha & Boris.


Also: Get off my lawn. Just because.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:30 AM on April 7, 2014

"Totally," in my world, totally does acknowledge an implicit denial. "Oh, don't worry - he's totally going to call you." "I don't know what the committee was talking about; that death-ray experiment was totally above-board." I'm struggling to come up with plausible colloquial examples that don't conform to his formula. Can you provide any?

My immediate instinct on reading this was to search your own comment history for an example and this sentence is from the third hit:

I am being honest when I say that's totally cool if that's what you want to do.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you or missing a joke, because your use of it in "totally does acknowledge an implicit denial" doesn't appear to involve any denial?

McWhorter's take on "like" works for me, though.
posted by XMLicious at 8:37 AM on April 7, 2014

I agree with chaz 100% lol
posted by Makwa at 8:56 AM on April 7, 2014

I was saying it was "totally cool" if people want to close their Metafilter accounts. It's actually a good illustration of this, because I think in context it's pretty clear I meant "I know it's odd for me to say this, because most people think it's terrible to close your metafilter account, and even now I'm arguing that stunt-closing your account is kind of awful and manipulative; but seriously, I really do mean that it is okay if you believe that closing your account is the best thing for you." The "implicit denial" isn't some kind of irony or something that contains an implicit denial; rather, it's that generally people use the word when they expect that others might disagree - it's a polite way of emphasizing a point on which we may anticipate disagreement but which we think is important.

I kind of like kyrademon's example, though, even though I think it's not really right that "totally" as McWhorter reads it is "sarcastic." People do indeed sometimes just use "totally" as an intensifier. I've probably done it myself, and if you go through my comment history I'll bet you'll find examples of me doing that very thing.
posted by koeselitz at 8:57 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]

(I mean, in that example, I even started with "I am being honest" - clearly emphasizing that others might not think I'm being honest.)
posted by koeselitz at 8:58 AM on April 7, 2014

I don't think people say "... because science" instead of "... because of science" out of laziness or a desire for efficiency. It's got a definite rhetorical effect and they are intentionally using it for that effect.

But what exactly is the effect? One that could explain both "... because science" and "... because reasons"? My guess is that the construction seeks to end discussion, by abruptness to put a sense of finality in a statement. "X because science" says that X is a rule of the universe and don't waste my time arguing against that. "X because reasons" means that I have my reasons for feeling X but I'm not even telling you them, so don't interrogate me about them. I wonder if this works with other instances of the construction?
posted by benito.strauss at 9:08 AM on April 7, 2014

I don't think people say "... because science" instead of "... because of science" out of laziness or a desire for efficiency. It's got a definite rhetorical effect and they are intentionally using it for that effect.

But what exactly is the effect?

I would say the effect is at least as much sociolinguistic as semantic. Using this construction identifies you as part of a group that is au courant with popular/hip internet slang of the day. The same way "y'all" might have nearly the same semantic properties as "you guys" but identifies you as part of or tied to a Southern US speech community.
posted by threeants at 9:13 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]

koeselitz - Ah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I guess I hear it used as an intensifier frequently enough so that the denial doesn't seem inherent to that particular word, and other intensifiers being used interchangeably would sound the same to me.
posted by XMLicious at 9:13 AM on April 7, 2014

koselitz, I use "totally" almost exclusively as an intensifier (egregious example). Perhaps it's because I grew up in SoCal in the 70s/80s.

And while your use might always have some concessive aspect to it, I think the argument you're making is heading towards the territory of "why explicitly include an intensifier unless you think there is contrary opinion", which could be applied to the use of any intensifier.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:16 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]

kyrademon: "Totally *can* be used sarcastically, sure, but it doesn't have to be.

"Look at this trailer! I am totally going to see this movie!" can simply mean "I am going to see this movie.""

But it's not exactly the same meaning, the 'totally' acts as an intensifier. An earlier generation might have said, "I am definitely going to see this movie." The speaker is more than interested, she is actively excited.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:56 AM on April 7, 2014

Yes, I was just noting there was no implicit denial there. (Although now that I've got a better understanding of what was meant by implicit denial - thanks, koeselitz - I can see how it is frequently, although far from always, used that way as well. I might have called it implicit reassurance, though, or something more along those lines.)
posted by kyrademon at 12:19 PM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]

I decided to move to NYC because reasons.
I decided to move to NYC because of personal reasons.
I decided to move to NYC just because.

• I decided to move to the city of New York because reasons.
• I decided to move to the city of Chicago because reasons.
• I decided to move to the city of Chagrin Falls because reasons.
• I dedided to move from the city of Kansas City, Kansas to the city of Kansas City, Missouri because reasons.
• I decided to move from the City of Indiana, Pennsylvania to the city of California, Pennsylvania because reasons.
• I decided to set sail aboard the USS City of Corpus Christi, because reasons.*
• Sunderland is a city within the City of Sunderland Metropolitan Borough -- of England.

 
------------------------------
*Originally named "USS Corpus Christi" (United States Ship Body of Christ), the name was changed before public christening to clarify that it was meant to honor the eponymous city (The City of the Body of Christ) and not the consecrated cracker, nor indeed the actual body of Christ.
posted by Herodios at 12:54 PM on April 7, 2014

I decided to move from the City of Indiana, Pennsylvania to the city of California, Pennsylvania because reasons.

The reason being that you are serially living in towns with Pennsylvania state universities?
posted by Chrysostom at 1:13 PM on April 7, 2014

you are serially living in towns with Pennsylvania state universities?

No no, Penn State is in the town of State College (whereas the State Pen is in the city of Pittsburgh (and in Philly)).
 
posted by Herodios at 1:25 PM on April 7, 2014

"California University of Pennsylvania (commonly referred to as Cal U) is a public university located in California, Pennsylvania, United States. Founded in 1852, it is a member of the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education."

"Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP) is a public university in Indiana County, Pennsylvania, USA. It is the largest university in the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education (PASSHE) and is the commonwealth's fifth largest university."

Or, uh, was that supposed to be a joke?
posted by koeselitz at 1:38 PM on April 7, 2014

(Never mind, I've had too much beer and I'm pretty sure it was a joke.)
posted by koeselitz at 1:48 PM on April 7, 2014

Oh ho, but as I've bored people with before, Penn State is not technically a state university, it is a state-related university.

Also, the Penn State/State Pen joke is generally held to refer to State Correctional Institution – Rockview, just a few miles away from State College.

This concludes our discussion of Pennsylvania institutions of higher learning. Thank you.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:52 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]

Rockview, eh?

One rock, two rocks, three rocks, four rocks
Rock pile dust is on my shoes
I’m a guy just born to lose
When I hear da siren blow -- Waaaah-ooooo!!!
I get those blues!

posted by Herodios at 3:07 PM on April 7, 2014