The secret ingredient is the shame
April 29, 2014 1:44 PM Subscribe
"If the accessories are not expensive, the customer is not worth the effort of even a simple hello" In a paper soon to be published in the Journal of Consumer Research, Sauder marketing professor Darren Dahl lays out the findings of his research, where he looked at the correlation between the quality of customer service that a shopper receives in a store with their likelihood to return to make more purchases in the future.
... a surprising majority of the those who received the alienating treatment had a positive view of the brand, compared with those who got the neutral reaction. "The desire to belong and have those aspirational brands that are a big part of our society is a powerful force," Dahl said.
One key to the results is that the snobby treatment doesn't work for everybody. “Our study shows you’ve got to be the right kind of snob in the right kind of store for the effect to work," Dahl said.
... a surprising majority of the those who received the alienating treatment had a positive view of the brand, compared with those who got the neutral reaction. "The desire to belong and have those aspirational brands that are a big part of our society is a powerful force," Dahl said.
One key to the results is that the snobby treatment doesn't work for everybody. “Our study shows you’ve got to be the right kind of snob in the right kind of store for the effect to work," Dahl said.
If I'm ever working retail again, and my boss tells me to smile and greet customers, I'll just forward him or her a copy of this study.
posted by ChuckRamone at 1:51 PM on April 29, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by ChuckRamone at 1:51 PM on April 29, 2014 [5 favorites]
One test consisted of polling 172 women, paid $5 for their time, who thought they were being consulted by a high-end brand for input on the brand's upcoming line of handbags.
How did they recruit these women? I would imagine that women who volunteer to participate in such a consultation in the first place, would be more likely to value high-end brands in the first place. That might make them more likely to put up with rejection from such brands than the average customer.
posted by peacheater at 1:56 PM on April 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
How did they recruit these women? I would imagine that women who volunteer to participate in such a consultation in the first place, would be more likely to value high-end brands in the first place. That might make them more likely to put up with rejection from such brands than the average customer.
posted by peacheater at 1:56 PM on April 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
Pretty much, yes. Which is fine, because those are the people you want to target your marketing to anyway. Much more efficient.
posted by Richard Daly at 1:58 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Richard Daly at 1:58 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
Rude treatment by employees of any retail establishment immediately puts that place on my "do not shop" list.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:58 PM on April 29, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:58 PM on April 29, 2014 [13 favorites]
Dear retailers,
Please listen to this and ignore me! Being ignored is so much nicer than the "HELLO LET ME SHOW YOU A SAMPLE OF THIS AND THIS AND THIS" that makes me feel like I'm a shoplifting risk and not well-dressed enough to be in the store and I'm insulting all your kindness if I walk out of there without buying anything.
posted by Jeanne at 2:01 PM on April 29, 2014 [28 favorites]
Please listen to this and ignore me! Being ignored is so much nicer than the "HELLO LET ME SHOW YOU A SAMPLE OF THIS AND THIS AND THIS" that makes me feel like I'm a shoplifting risk and not well-dressed enough to be in the store and I'm insulting all your kindness if I walk out of there without buying anything.
posted by Jeanne at 2:01 PM on April 29, 2014 [28 favorites]
Know this to be true for upscale shoppers, but it is as if the sales staff gives their insecure poseur clientele a demonstration on how to behave to give the appearance of success. It pretty much says, "This is how you fake being superior to others in a public forum."
Does not work with me: staff in upscale stores make the same retail wages as their mundane counterparts. It's an act and I have no use for it.
Mind you, I don't go for the artificial perky hard sell -- I just want to buy what I need and get out...the smoke and mirror script is irrelevant to the product and price...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:02 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
Does not work with me: staff in upscale stores make the same retail wages as their mundane counterparts. It's an act and I have no use for it.
Mind you, I don't go for the artificial perky hard sell -- I just want to buy what I need and get out...the smoke and mirror script is irrelevant to the product and price...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:02 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
There are environments where these sorts of tricks absolutely work on me, but retail isn't it (including restaurants). Each to their own.
posted by anonymisc at 2:10 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by anonymisc at 2:10 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
staff in upscale stores make the same retail wages as their mundane counterparts
That would depend probably on whether they get commissions, no?
posted by Hoopo at 2:48 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
That would depend probably on whether they get commissions, no?
posted by Hoopo at 2:48 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
How did they recruit these women? I would imagine that women who volunteer to participate in such a consultation in the first place, would be more likely to value high-end brands in the first place. That might make them more likely to put up with rejection from such brands than the average customer.
Well, in market research, you stop people in malls and shopping centers, ask them some screening questions (have you purchased such and such product in the last 12 months?), then you offer them money to participate in a survey. You could also cold call, but doing it at the mall is easier, and you can pay them less.
posted by empath at 3:07 PM on April 29, 2014
Well, in market research, you stop people in malls and shopping centers, ask them some screening questions (have you purchased such and such product in the last 12 months?), then you offer them money to participate in a survey. You could also cold call, but doing it at the mall is easier, and you can pay them less.
posted by empath at 3:07 PM on April 29, 2014
Something the article makes plain which the post summary doesn't emphasize is that this is about aspirational goods - stuff for which the insane price tags, and signaling regarding those price tags, are very much the point.
I'd like to think this sort of manipulation wouldn't work on me but I'll never really know. Even if I won the lottery, I doubt this would be my scene, unless YSL started making bespoke water-pistol-toting quadcopters or something.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:08 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'd like to think this sort of manipulation wouldn't work on me but I'll never really know. Even if I won the lottery, I doubt this would be my scene, unless YSL started making bespoke water-pistol-toting quadcopters or something.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:08 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
Story time.
One of my not-so-great personality traits is that I enjoy trolling snobby retail staff. Recently, my son needed new dress shoes. I took him to Nordstrom for the pair that he had his heart set on. I was dressed neatly, but obviously not upscale. My son picked up the shoe he wanted, and we sat down. I saw the sales people roll their eyes, and one of them called over a young man from another department to help us. He was lovely and so helpful. So I told my son to pick out a pair of loafers as well. Then we added shoe trees for each pair.
The look on the faces of the other sales people when I pulled out my envelope (made from a piece of notebook paper and scotch tape) that was absolutely stuffed with hundreds and twenties was worth every penny.
Oh, and we got his business card, so my son can email him directly when he needs professional wear.
posted by 1066 at 3:10 PM on April 29, 2014 [28 favorites]
One of my not-so-great personality traits is that I enjoy trolling snobby retail staff. Recently, my son needed new dress shoes. I took him to Nordstrom for the pair that he had his heart set on. I was dressed neatly, but obviously not upscale. My son picked up the shoe he wanted, and we sat down. I saw the sales people roll their eyes, and one of them called over a young man from another department to help us. He was lovely and so helpful. So I told my son to pick out a pair of loafers as well. Then we added shoe trees for each pair.
The look on the faces of the other sales people when I pulled out my envelope (made from a piece of notebook paper and scotch tape) that was absolutely stuffed with hundreds and twenties was worth every penny.
Oh, and we got his business card, so my son can email him directly when he needs professional wear.
posted by 1066 at 3:10 PM on April 29, 2014 [28 favorites]
I wonder how much of this is like the story that Chanel No. five wasn't selling well until they tripled the price.
Friend of mine bought Loubutions in her pajamas, no makeup and bed head,just to see how they would react ( apparently completely normally cause dishelved young women with a money Are A Thing.)
I personally love the retail experience in Paris, completely nonexistent until the half second before I have a question and then BAM they're there ready to be asked questions.
posted by The Whelk at 3:21 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
Friend of mine bought Loubutions in her pajamas, no makeup and bed head,just to see how they would react ( apparently completely normally cause dishelved young women with a money Are A Thing.)
I personally love the retail experience in Paris, completely nonexistent until the half second before I have a question and then BAM they're there ready to be asked questions.
posted by The Whelk at 3:21 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I don't shop at luxury retailers like Yves Saint Laurent but neutral treatment at a clothing retailer will definitely make me come back because I really just want to be left alone while I shop.
I actively avoid shops that I would otherwise go in because I get so tired of the forced conversation and intrusive questions that I'm always subjected to when I go into these places. It starts out with "So what brings you in today?" to which even the most minimal answer of "I'm just looking around, thanks" gets a "Have you shopped with us before? Are you aware of our sales today?" which leads to me politely listening to a long list of stuff that I'm not interested in on sale before I'm released. If I try something on and step out of the dressing room to use the mirror, I get unsolicited commentary on how it looks if a salesperson is there. Then if I do buy something, at the cash register I get: "What's the occasion for this dress/suit/outfit?', which I definitely don't want to discuss with a stranger in front of a line of strangers behind me.
I was a waitress for years and subject to secret shoppers who would document whether I was using certain phrases, etc. so I am well aware that it isn't the fault of the salespeople and that retail is already really shitty work, and I don't want to make it any worse for the workers because their company's idea of the customer experience is over the top. So I just don't go into these places anymore. Some stores are worse than others and a few are serial offenders but I don't understand why just eye contact with a simple hello and a smile, maybe followed by a "let me know if I can help you find anything" stopped being sufficient. I've always worked in client and customer facing roles and I understand the high value of good customer service, but I think some segments of our society have gotten ridiculous with it at this point. So I'd probably welcome being ignored at this point, though for different reasons than what the study looks at.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:34 PM on April 29, 2014 [18 favorites]
I actively avoid shops that I would otherwise go in because I get so tired of the forced conversation and intrusive questions that I'm always subjected to when I go into these places. It starts out with "So what brings you in today?" to which even the most minimal answer of "I'm just looking around, thanks" gets a "Have you shopped with us before? Are you aware of our sales today?" which leads to me politely listening to a long list of stuff that I'm not interested in on sale before I'm released. If I try something on and step out of the dressing room to use the mirror, I get unsolicited commentary on how it looks if a salesperson is there. Then if I do buy something, at the cash register I get: "What's the occasion for this dress/suit/outfit?', which I definitely don't want to discuss with a stranger in front of a line of strangers behind me.
I was a waitress for years and subject to secret shoppers who would document whether I was using certain phrases, etc. so I am well aware that it isn't the fault of the salespeople and that retail is already really shitty work, and I don't want to make it any worse for the workers because their company's idea of the customer experience is over the top. So I just don't go into these places anymore. Some stores are worse than others and a few are serial offenders but I don't understand why just eye contact with a simple hello and a smile, maybe followed by a "let me know if I can help you find anything" stopped being sufficient. I've always worked in client and customer facing roles and I understand the high value of good customer service, but I think some segments of our society have gotten ridiculous with it at this point. So I'd probably welcome being ignored at this point, though for different reasons than what the study looks at.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:34 PM on April 29, 2014 [18 favorites]
The look on the faces of the other sales people when I pulled out my envelope (made from a piece of notebook paper and scotch tape) that was absolutely stuffed with hundreds and twenties was worth every penny.
As someone who worked retail for years, what I picture is the look on their faces after you left and they split the commission on someone who came to buy one pair of shoes, and was manipulated into buying another pair plus accessories.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 3:52 PM on April 29, 2014 [16 favorites]
As someone who worked retail for years, what I picture is the look on their faces after you left and they split the commission on someone who came to buy one pair of shoes, and was manipulated into buying another pair plus accessories.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 3:52 PM on April 29, 2014 [16 favorites]
My husband does some of his shopping at a men's big and tall place near his parents in Dallas. It's a fairly upscale place and carries moderate to very expensive clothes (for upscale Dallas). But the service is top-notch! They greet you when you come in and if you're just browsing, they let you be. But if you tell them what you need, they will find it, and if you tell them what occasion you're dressing for, they'll find something you like in your style that will do. They recognize me and my husband even though we're only there a couple of times a year and by their standards, we're small-potatoes shoppers (we buy jeans and casual shirts instead of designer clothes and suits). They're always very gracious even if we buy only one item, or even go away empty-handed.
As a woman, I so rarely have that kind of experience in stores. Generally it's snootiness that makes me want to shop somewhere else (and I do a lot of my purchasing online now). Now I guess I know why.
posted by immlass at 3:59 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
As a woman, I so rarely have that kind of experience in stores. Generally it's snootiness that makes me want to shop somewhere else (and I do a lot of my purchasing online now). Now I guess I know why.
posted by immlass at 3:59 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I once got sneered at so hard in a suit store I actually started laughing. And left. Sorry I tried to spend money in your store, bro!
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:59 PM on April 29, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:59 PM on April 29, 2014 [9 favorites]
I hate when they publish a press release about a study before the study itself is available.
That said, I have a similar reaction to intrusive sales tactics as a lot of other people mention. I don't want unsolicited advice, and I don't like being interrogated. I don't even like shopping. I'm usually not overconfident that I'd 'pass' some social test like this, but I'm pretty sure I would with this one.
But assuming that the study's well designed, maybe they've corrected for that. (And if they did recruit subjects at shopping malls, that'd select for people who shop at malls at least.)
And I am sure there's some snob effect with 'aspirational' goods. That's a big part of the point, after all. That certain products are social signifiers, and people aspire to signify above their social class. People who aspire to that are not wrong or stupid. We live in a classist culture, and inclusion in certain social classes is contingent on social markers such as luxury goods. I have absolutely seen people rejected for jobs and otherwise not taken seriously because they were not sending the right social signals. And I'm not exactly the queen of recognizing social signals, so I'm really only going to notice a tiny fraction of the time.
I wonder, though, too, how much of the effect is coming from the other side, where cheap, scammy type products are often oversold. So if someone rolls up on you being overly familiar and eager, maybe it sets off some warning signals, even if that sort of thing normally doesn't bother you. That's how con artists work.
posted by ernielundquist at 4:03 PM on April 29, 2014
That said, I have a similar reaction to intrusive sales tactics as a lot of other people mention. I don't want unsolicited advice, and I don't like being interrogated. I don't even like shopping. I'm usually not overconfident that I'd 'pass' some social test like this, but I'm pretty sure I would with this one.
But assuming that the study's well designed, maybe they've corrected for that. (And if they did recruit subjects at shopping malls, that'd select for people who shop at malls at least.)
And I am sure there's some snob effect with 'aspirational' goods. That's a big part of the point, after all. That certain products are social signifiers, and people aspire to signify above their social class. People who aspire to that are not wrong or stupid. We live in a classist culture, and inclusion in certain social classes is contingent on social markers such as luxury goods. I have absolutely seen people rejected for jobs and otherwise not taken seriously because they were not sending the right social signals. And I'm not exactly the queen of recognizing social signals, so I'm really only going to notice a tiny fraction of the time.
I wonder, though, too, how much of the effect is coming from the other side, where cheap, scammy type products are often oversold. So if someone rolls up on you being overly familiar and eager, maybe it sets off some warning signals, even if that sort of thing normally doesn't bother you. That's how con artists work.
posted by ernielundquist at 4:03 PM on April 29, 2014
Wait: so the shop is negging them?
posted by Sebmojo at 4:08 PM on April 29, 2014 [29 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 4:08 PM on April 29, 2014 [29 favorites]
"You guys are elitist. You feel like under-appreciated scholars so you shit on everybody who knows less than you."
"No."
"Which is everybody."
"Yes."
posted by philip-random at 4:26 PM on April 29, 2014 [3 favorites]
"No."
"Which is everybody."
"Yes."
posted by philip-random at 4:26 PM on April 29, 2014 [3 favorites]
Wait: so the shop is negging them?
At least at retailers targeting women, that seems to be fairly common. I've run into it a few times at expensive bro-toy stores (eg motorcycle shops that were assertively not aiming at female riders) and it's weird and off-putting.
I feel sorry for the people at retailers who are so clearly having to perform a script that they don't enjoy or believe in. It shows and I can't imagine it is all that effective.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:28 PM on April 29, 2014
At least at retailers targeting women, that seems to be fairly common. I've run into it a few times at expensive bro-toy stores (eg motorcycle shops that were assertively not aiming at female riders) and it's weird and off-putting.
I feel sorry for the people at retailers who are so clearly having to perform a script that they don't enjoy or believe in. It shows and I can't imagine it is all that effective.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:28 PM on April 29, 2014
Who would have thought that PUA theory was right about retail. "Daddy issues" are a driving force behind the economy apparently.
posted by Napierzaza at 4:29 PM on April 29, 2014
posted by Napierzaza at 4:29 PM on April 29, 2014
RE: High Fidelity.
Was that movie written by a goth or a magician? It really has that kind of feel to it.
posted by Napierzaza at 4:32 PM on April 29, 2014
Was that movie written by a goth or a magician? It really has that kind of feel to it.
posted by Napierzaza at 4:32 PM on April 29, 2014
As someone who worked retail for years, what I picture is the look on their faces after you left and they split the commission on someone who came to buy one pair of shoes, and was manipulated into buying another pair plus accessories.
As someone who worked retail for a decade, I'm going with some people are just dicks, those sales people included.
posted by 1066 at 4:36 PM on April 29, 2014 [6 favorites]
As someone who worked retail for a decade, I'm going with some people are just dicks, those sales people included.
posted by 1066 at 4:36 PM on April 29, 2014 [6 favorites]
Was that movie written by a goth or a magician?
You mean you haven't read the book?
Get on to it.
On topic: I don't miss retail shopping, and they don't miss me, but include me in the 'happy to be ignored' segment.
posted by pompomtom at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
You mean you haven't read the book?
Get on to it.
On topic: I don't miss retail shopping, and they don't miss me, but include me in the 'happy to be ignored' segment.
posted by pompomtom at 5:06 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'm so practiced at saying "Just looking, thanks" that I accidentally said it to a friend who ran into me in a shop.
posted by srboisvert at 5:37 PM on April 29, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:37 PM on April 29, 2014 [14 favorites]
"Wait: so the shop is negging them?
At least at retailers targeting women, that seems to be fairly common. I've run into it a few times at expensive bro-toy stores (eg motorcycle shops that were assertively not aiming at female riders) and it's weird and off-putting."
A friend of mine is the highest-selling Harley-Davidson salesperson in the US, and has been more years than not for most of this contracting-economy decade. He also sells more bikes to women than all the rest of the sales staff in his region *combined*. Think there's a theme to his success?
He is also a transguy and began as the top seller when he was still female (the archetype of a butch dyke, actually). Hmmmm.
posted by Dreidl at 5:42 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
At least at retailers targeting women, that seems to be fairly common. I've run into it a few times at expensive bro-toy stores (eg motorcycle shops that were assertively not aiming at female riders) and it's weird and off-putting."
A friend of mine is the highest-selling Harley-Davidson salesperson in the US, and has been more years than not for most of this contracting-economy decade. He also sells more bikes to women than all the rest of the sales staff in his region *combined*. Think there's a theme to his success?
He is also a transguy and began as the top seller when he was still female (the archetype of a butch dyke, actually). Hmmmm.
posted by Dreidl at 5:42 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I've actually found the service in more expensive stores is usually pretty low-key and helpful. Liberty in particular has really lovely staff. The only time I've ever experienced the snobby treatment was in fucking Reiss of all places (don't know if you have it in the US, but it's basically a more-shoddily-made Zara). I don't shop there any more, mostly because the hems fall down (as I say, their stuff is really badly-made) but the weirdly misplaced snootiness sort of cemented it.
posted by tinkletown at 6:27 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by tinkletown at 6:27 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
I vastly prefer the shops where they don't give a shit to the shops where they are AGGRESSIVELY CUSTOMER ORIENTED. My local Walgreen's has apparently had some kind of GREET EVERY CUSTOMER WHEN THEY WALK IN THE DOOR NO MATTER WHAT mandate so when the poor girl at the register is ringing me up during a busy period, it sounds like a hip-hop DJ scratching on the decks.
WEL--WEL--WEL--W-W-W-W---WELCOME TO---WEL--WEL---WELCOME TO WALGREEN'S.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:27 PM on April 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
WEL--WEL--WEL--W-W-W-W---WELCOME TO---WEL--WEL---WELCOME TO WALGREEN'S.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:27 PM on April 29, 2014 [4 favorites]
The cashier at Walgreen's told be to "Be Well!" after handing me my change. I asked if she knew how to use the three shells and she just looked at me all confused-like.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:31 PM on April 29, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:31 PM on April 29, 2014 [13 favorites]
Wait: so the shop is negging them?
That's an interesting idea, but my understanding is that "negging" is about making another person lower his or her standards by undermining their self esteem.
This sounds like its about reaffirming the importance and power of the snobby status ladder the victim aspires to climb. "Yes, an expensive bauble on your wrist really will earn you some respect from somebody." And its made to appear true by... making it true. Its not about undermining self esteem so much as its about attaching it to externalities, turning self esteem into a purchasable commodity.
But then I expect some snobby psych major to drop in here and sniff at my tawdry little ideas, making it plain that the only way to gain any respect from anyone would be to subscribe to a complete ensemble theory of his that's probably beyond my means.
posted by Western Infidels at 6:38 PM on April 29, 2014
That's an interesting idea, but my understanding is that "negging" is about making another person lower his or her standards by undermining their self esteem.
This sounds like its about reaffirming the importance and power of the snobby status ladder the victim aspires to climb. "Yes, an expensive bauble on your wrist really will earn you some respect from somebody." And its made to appear true by... making it true. Its not about undermining self esteem so much as its about attaching it to externalities, turning self esteem into a purchasable commodity.
But then I expect some snobby psych major to drop in here and sniff at my tawdry little ideas, making it plain that the only way to gain any respect from anyone would be to subscribe to a complete ensemble theory of his that's probably beyond my means.
posted by Western Infidels at 6:38 PM on April 29, 2014
Well, in market research, you stop people in malls...
And that is why I never get tagged for market research. I hate driving past the mall. Too damn close.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:48 PM on April 29, 2014
And that is why I never get tagged for market research. I hate driving past the mall. Too damn close.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:48 PM on April 29, 2014
In the "Yet Another Reason Why They're Bankrupt" File, the thing they want me to do at Radioshack is have a conversation with every. single. customer.
Not just the "hi, I'm WeX, what brings you in today?" but a full fucking conversation with whatever tiny thing it is they may be there for.
This of course, only works because so few people come into our stores, that the dude buying a toggle switch is gonna be your only customer for the next hour anyway, might as well talk him to an upsell!
This drives me insane. We're a tech store, the one you've all made fun of for the last 14 years (and with good reason), and if you're walking in our store you're either there for the efficiency of not going to Best Buy, or somewhere on The Nerd Spectrum. Either one of those doesn't want to hear SHIT until he gets to the register or initiates the conversation.
I try to support that belief, because if they're in our doors at this point, they'll be back six months later when we have our Inevitable Bankruptcy Sale.
posted by WeX Majors at 7:03 PM on April 29, 2014 [3 favorites]
Not just the "hi, I'm WeX, what brings you in today?" but a full fucking conversation with whatever tiny thing it is they may be there for.
This of course, only works because so few people come into our stores, that the dude buying a toggle switch is gonna be your only customer for the next hour anyway, might as well talk him to an upsell!
This drives me insane. We're a tech store, the one you've all made fun of for the last 14 years (and with good reason), and if you're walking in our store you're either there for the efficiency of not going to Best Buy, or somewhere on The Nerd Spectrum. Either one of those doesn't want to hear SHIT until he gets to the register or initiates the conversation.
I try to support that belief, because if they're in our doors at this point, they'll be back six months later when we have our Inevitable Bankruptcy Sale.
posted by WeX Majors at 7:03 PM on April 29, 2014 [3 favorites]
That's an interesting idea, but my understanding is that "negging" is about making another person lower his or her standards by undermining their self esteem.
I think that's the common misunderstanding of it, but what's happening here is probably a more accurate idea of negging - the retailer is communicating that-don't-impress-me, making the person instinctively want to rise to the challenge of showing they're totally in that league, where previously there was a lack of engagement.
posted by anonymisc at 7:34 PM on April 29, 2014 [5 favorites]
I think that's the common misunderstanding of it, but what's happening here is probably a more accurate idea of negging - the retailer is communicating that-don't-impress-me, making the person instinctively want to rise to the challenge of showing they're totally in that league, where previously there was a lack of engagement.
posted by anonymisc at 7:34 PM on April 29, 2014 [5 favorites]
The cashier at Walgreen's told be to "Be Well!" after handing me my change.
I wonder if Walgreen's actually knows what they sell and who their employees are. The cashiers at the Walgreen's down the street from my work are all middle-aged women with smoker's rasps, which just makes the corporate-sanctioned "Be Well!" (typically said while standing right in front of a literal wall of cigarettes) sound like a sick, sick joke.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:45 PM on April 29, 2014 [6 favorites]
I wonder if Walgreen's actually knows what they sell and who their employees are. The cashiers at the Walgreen's down the street from my work are all middle-aged women with smoker's rasps, which just makes the corporate-sanctioned "Be Well!" (typically said while standing right in front of a literal wall of cigarettes) sound like a sick, sick joke.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:45 PM on April 29, 2014 [6 favorites]
I'm so practiced at saying "Just looking, thanks" that I accidentally said it to a friend who ran into me in a shop.
The thing that most consistently gets me to complain to my coworkers is when I say hello to customers and they respond, "Just looking, thanks." I don't understand why it's so much of a hassle to say hi to me. To treat me like a human being for 5 seconds out of your day. Not saying that this is what you do, just that I hear that dozens of times a day not in response to offers of assistance.
posted by Night_owl at 7:51 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
The thing that most consistently gets me to complain to my coworkers is when I say hello to customers and they respond, "Just looking, thanks." I don't understand why it's so much of a hassle to say hi to me. To treat me like a human being for 5 seconds out of your day. Not saying that this is what you do, just that I hear that dozens of times a day not in response to offers of assistance.
posted by Night_owl at 7:51 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't understand why it's so much of a hassle to say hi to me. To treat me like a human being for 5 seconds out of your day.
I don't personally go to "Just looking, thanks" until the conversation has progressed farther than a simple hello, but more and more people in retail are using any wedge to begin conversation as an opportunity for aggressive salesmanship, willingly or otherwise. Where you see humanity or a lack thereof, the aggro-salesbot sees an opportunity to exploit the tiniest slice of someone's humanity to sell more somethings.
posted by rollbiz at 7:57 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I don't personally go to "Just looking, thanks" until the conversation has progressed farther than a simple hello, but more and more people in retail are using any wedge to begin conversation as an opportunity for aggressive salesmanship, willingly or otherwise. Where you see humanity or a lack thereof, the aggro-salesbot sees an opportunity to exploit the tiniest slice of someone's humanity to sell more somethings.
posted by rollbiz at 7:57 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I once considered doing a PhD at a certain university. I met with a certain professor, who proceeded to treat me like crap. He was new in his position and, I think, threatened by someone with industry experience looking at doing a PhD with him. He spent a lot of time dissing where I'd gone to school. I think he wanted me to think that his university and his department were the most amazing bastions of learning in the entire universe. I suspect this works on a lot of people applying there - that it would make them want to go there that much more. In my case, I just shrugged and took a different path, because I have no time for that. Just like I walk out of Holt's or Hermes or wherever when they give me that look.
Now that this article has been published, it all makes sense. I think that particular professor probably intentionally applies his strategy. Some people really master their subject matter. I'll say no more about why this really hits home.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:26 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
Now that this article has been published, it all makes sense. I think that particular professor probably intentionally applies his strategy. Some people really master their subject matter. I'll say no more about why this really hits home.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 8:26 PM on April 29, 2014 [1 favorite]
The thing that most consistently gets me to complain to my coworkers is when I say hello to customers and they respond, "Just looking, thanks." I don't understand why it's so much of a hassle to say hi to me. To treat me like a human being for 5 seconds out of your day. Not saying that this is what you do, just that I hear that dozens of times a day not in response to offers of assistance.
"Just looking thanks" is my way of letting you out of your responsibility to sell to me so you can do other stuff or have your time to yourself and also to let me decide on my purchase with no pressures. I see it as win win.
posted by srboisvert at 8:31 PM on April 29, 2014 [9 favorites]
"Just looking thanks" is my way of letting you out of your responsibility to sell to me so you can do other stuff or have your time to yourself and also to let me decide on my purchase with no pressures. I see it as win win.
posted by srboisvert at 8:31 PM on April 29, 2014 [9 favorites]
I actively avoid shops that I would otherwise go in because I get so tired of the forced conversation and intrusive questions that I'm always subjected to when I go into these places.
For myself at least, I think it's that when I get asked these sorts of open-ended-so-you-have-to-respond-in-a-way-that-lets-them-sell-me-stuff question it makes me feel like the store's management thinks I'm an idiot.
I know that you're asking, "What brings you into today?" or "What can I help you with?" instead of "Can I help you?" because I can't just say, "No thanks" and move on. But I'm also an adult and I know how retail stores work. If I need something, I'll ask. Otherwise you can assume that I, as a grown up, know how to by pants for myself. This is doubly true if I'm wearing pants at the time as it demonstrates that I've accomplished this task at least once before.
posted by VTX at 8:57 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
For myself at least, I think it's that when I get asked these sorts of open-ended-so-you-have-to-respond-in-a-way-that-lets-them-sell-me-stuff question it makes me feel like the store's management thinks I'm an idiot.
I know that you're asking, "What brings you into today?" or "What can I help you with?" instead of "Can I help you?" because I can't just say, "No thanks" and move on. But I'm also an adult and I know how retail stores work. If I need something, I'll ask. Otherwise you can assume that I, as a grown up, know how to by pants for myself. This is doubly true if I'm wearing pants at the time as it demonstrates that I've accomplished this task at least once before.
posted by VTX at 8:57 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I don't understand why it's so much of a hassle to say hi to me. To treat me like a human being for 5 seconds out of your day.
I always acknowledge people with a smile, but I don't actually speak, on the assumption that if I say "hello" (instead of nothing at all or "just browsing"), just like 9/10 times in the past, it's going to lead to extended discussions about why e.g. pleated skirts are not going to work. I can imagine how crappy it must feel to deal with that day after day, but people don't know that your hello is different from those other hellos.
I feel much easier about the whole thing if the person just hangs back and greets me with a smile, which lets me know the pressure's off.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:30 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
I always acknowledge people with a smile, but I don't actually speak, on the assumption that if I say "hello" (instead of nothing at all or "just browsing"), just like 9/10 times in the past, it's going to lead to extended discussions about why e.g. pleated skirts are not going to work. I can imagine how crappy it must feel to deal with that day after day, but people don't know that your hello is different from those other hellos.
I feel much easier about the whole thing if the person just hangs back and greets me with a smile, which lets me know the pressure's off.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:30 PM on April 29, 2014 [2 favorites]
The thing that most consistently gets me to complain to my coworkers is when I say hello to customers and they respond, "Just looking, thanks." I don't understand why it's so much of a hassle to say hi to me. To treat me like a human being for 5 seconds out of your day. Not saying that this is what you do, just that I hear that dozens of times a day not in response to offers of assistance.
I did three years in the retail mines, so I'm totally sympathetic to your pleas for basic human decency. With that said, please consider I have probably been in anywhere from 5-10 stores on a shopping day and in at least half of those, some fucko is using that instinct to basic human decency to try and wedge themselves in my wallet. I mean, I've studied consumer psychology and worked retail. Maybe YOU are just trying to be friendly, but you're gonna pay for the sins of the 10 guys who tried to use my "Hello" as an opening to try and sell me a phone cable or a magazine subscription or an extended warranty or whatever because blah blah blah establishing a relationship.
And also, frankly, if it's something like a Best Buy, I actively DON'T want your help because I probably know more than you and you're just going to irk me.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:40 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I did three years in the retail mines, so I'm totally sympathetic to your pleas for basic human decency. With that said, please consider I have probably been in anywhere from 5-10 stores on a shopping day and in at least half of those, some fucko is using that instinct to basic human decency to try and wedge themselves in my wallet. I mean, I've studied consumer psychology and worked retail. Maybe YOU are just trying to be friendly, but you're gonna pay for the sins of the 10 guys who tried to use my "Hello" as an opening to try and sell me a phone cable or a magazine subscription or an extended warranty or whatever because blah blah blah establishing a relationship.
And also, frankly, if it's something like a Best Buy, I actively DON'T want your help because I probably know more than you and you're just going to irk me.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:40 PM on April 29, 2014 [7 favorites]
I can't stand the "can I help you" in the tone of voice that really means " you don't belong here". Sometimes I get it from ALL the staff who heard me perfectly well the first time I said that I was just looking/ would let them know.
The last time I got this the guy in the shop also told me to smile as he rang me up. I told him " you want a smile, look in the mirror".
posted by brujita at 12:10 AM on April 30, 2014
The last time I got this the guy in the shop also told me to smile as he rang me up. I told him " you want a smile, look in the mirror".
posted by brujita at 12:10 AM on April 30, 2014
I personally love the retail experience in Paris, completely nonexistent until the half second before I have a question and then BAM they're there ready to be asked questions.
Body language. Once you've lived here a while, you get into that nonchalant (but totally studied) "I do not need to notice anyone around me and know what I'm doing" persona, studiously avoiding any semblance of curiosity. A quizzical look – all it takes is a raised eyebrow and tilted head, sometimes just a pensive sigh – is what brings on two things: when following that neutral nonchalance, it triggers "je peux vous aider, madame/mademoiselle/monsieur ?" But when it is a constant background noise, it gets you avoided by French people and very likely spoken to in English by people who are supposed to help.
Anecdotal, yeah, but I've enjoyed doing totally unscientific research on this sort of signalling, and it is replicable across shops, cities, and several years :) I also have fun doing sighs with different tones. The nonchalant pensive sigh is the best-received. Amusez-vous à Paris...
posted by fraula at 1:14 AM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
Body language. Once you've lived here a while, you get into that nonchalant (but totally studied) "I do not need to notice anyone around me and know what I'm doing" persona, studiously avoiding any semblance of curiosity. A quizzical look – all it takes is a raised eyebrow and tilted head, sometimes just a pensive sigh – is what brings on two things: when following that neutral nonchalance, it triggers "je peux vous aider, madame/mademoiselle/monsieur ?" But when it is a constant background noise, it gets you avoided by French people and very likely spoken to in English by people who are supposed to help.
Anecdotal, yeah, but I've enjoyed doing totally unscientific research on this sort of signalling, and it is replicable across shops, cities, and several years :) I also have fun doing sighs with different tones. The nonchalant pensive sigh is the best-received. Amusez-vous à Paris...
posted by fraula at 1:14 AM on April 30, 2014 [4 favorites]
> ...you can assume that I, as a grown up, know how to buy pants for myself. This is doubly true if I'm wearing pants at the time as it demonstrates that I've accomplished this task at least once before.
No it doesn't.
posted by ardgedee at 3:31 AM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
No it doesn't.
posted by ardgedee at 3:31 AM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think that's the common misunderstanding of it, but what's happening here is probably a more accurate idea of negging - the retailer is communicating that-don't-impress-me, making the person instinctively want to rise to the challenge of showing they're totally in that league, where previously there was a lack of engagement.
Yes, and with that in mind, take another read of 1066's anecdote and realize that it works perfectly. By being rude to 1066 and her son, basically playing good cop bad cop on them, they upsold the living shit out of them.
posted by Naberius at 5:58 AM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yes, and with that in mind, take another read of 1066's anecdote and realize that it works perfectly. By being rude to 1066 and her son, basically playing good cop bad cop on them, they upsold the living shit out of them.
posted by Naberius at 5:58 AM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
The truly good, helpful salesperson is so, so rare.
Years ago in the East Village there was a small dress shop that I used to go to often because the owner was so good. I'm an average sized woman, so in most dress shops I won't get any special treatment, but I remember walking into this shop one time after work and the owner said, "I have a pair of pants that will fit you beautifully!" and they did! I went there as often as I could afford to.
It's true that I avoided going into the shop for a long time before I first noticed it because I was afraid of interacting with whoever would be inside.
The only other person who has been as helpful was a good friend in college whose mother owned a dress shop, and when I went shopping with my friend, she was also able to help me find the the dress that really did fit and look good on me (my friend is now a surgeon).
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:48 AM on April 30, 2014
Years ago in the East Village there was a small dress shop that I used to go to often because the owner was so good. I'm an average sized woman, so in most dress shops I won't get any special treatment, but I remember walking into this shop one time after work and the owner said, "I have a pair of pants that will fit you beautifully!" and they did! I went there as often as I could afford to.
It's true that I avoided going into the shop for a long time before I first noticed it because I was afraid of interacting with whoever would be inside.
The only other person who has been as helpful was a good friend in college whose mother owned a dress shop, and when I went shopping with my friend, she was also able to help me find the the dress that really did fit and look good on me (my friend is now a surgeon).
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:48 AM on April 30, 2014
I think you're missing the point of 1066's anecdote just a little, Naberius. The original salespeople looked down on them and got a junior associate from another department to help them. That person isn't going to have the breadth of knowledge the shoe department staff has, nor is he likely to be aware (as the more experienced staff is) that he will receive little commission for his time spent with them because they appear to be of a more frugal class. From working retail at an upscale shoe store, I know it's a way of slagging off undesirable work on someone who can't object in order to insult a customer you would rather not even walk into your store.
1066's giving that salesperson a good sale was a kind of revenge on the sales staff who snubbed them and therefore lost out on a tidy commission.
posted by Appropriate Username at 7:20 AM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
1066's giving that salesperson a good sale was a kind of revenge on the sales staff who snubbed them and therefore lost out on a tidy commission.
posted by Appropriate Username at 7:20 AM on April 30, 2014 [3 favorites]
Self-selective. If you're the kind of person who thinks that a handbag is worth the same price as a good sofa, then you're also warped enough to believe that the snobbier the service, the better the bag.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:24 AM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 7:24 AM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
I figure if I put some toilet paper on my shoe and wear a faux medical bracelet, they will leave me alone to browse (or leave) in peace. I may up the ante by leaving my fly unzipped, but that is just me.
posted by snap_dragon at 9:03 AM on April 30, 2014
posted by snap_dragon at 9:03 AM on April 30, 2014
Yeah, Appropriate Username, I don't think that was really a deliberate strategy by the salespeople to upsell 1066 and her son, but that was the end result. While it may not have been a great outcome for the original salespeople, it was certainly a great result for their bosses.
I guarantee you a place as obsessive about this sort of thing as a Pret a Manger would totally make employees do things like that if they thought they could do it consistently enough to increase profits instead of driving potential customers out of the store.
posted by Naberius at 11:45 AM on April 30, 2014
I guarantee you a place as obsessive about this sort of thing as a Pret a Manger would totally make employees do things like that if they thought they could do it consistently enough to increase profits instead of driving potential customers out of the store.
posted by Naberius at 11:45 AM on April 30, 2014
When we first moved to LA, I sold china and crystal in a well-known specialty store. I was warned to never judge anyone by anything he or she had on. Big time movie stars shopped in flip-flops and smelled bad. Wives of basketball stars wore fur coats and cut-off jeans. Heads of studios had dirty fingernails and huge watches. So I treated everyone pretty much the same way--as if I was Princess Di's best friend and they were there to pick up the trash. At Christmas, I made serious bank in commissions, quit before they could all return the stuff.
posted by Ideefixe at 12:15 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Ideefixe at 12:15 PM on April 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Don't pretend to know someone's monetary worth based on their appearance. Only Bank Tellers know this. "That 'homeless-looking' dude that strolled into the bank just now? His balance is about 2.5 million."
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 3:26 PM on April 30, 2014
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 3:26 PM on April 30, 2014
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