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May 9, 2014 8:42 AM Subscribe
For some inexplicable reason I have found Zizek fascinating. His writing style, with allusions to culture and references to other philosophers, has made me stop and think about the events he critiques because I find myself searching his sources in their original form, and then reading them to better understand Zizsek's particular argument.
posted by royals at 8:59 AM on May 9, 2014
posted by royals at 8:59 AM on May 9, 2014
I feel like not much was said in this piece.
posted by Hoopo at 9:07 AM on May 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Hoopo at 9:07 AM on May 9, 2014 [3 favorites]
I found the article mostly said nothing new, so I was ready to just move on from this thread. But I couldn't help but notice that below the piece, in the column labelled "More from the Guardian," two of the linked articles at that moment happened to be:
and rather than just being one of those funny coincidences, those articles seem to summon up what I think about Zizek. After his amazing film Perverts Guide to the Cinema, he just seems to be jacking off. Saying nothing provocatively.
posted by jasper411 at 9:10 AM on May 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
and rather than just being one of those funny coincidences, those articles seem to summon up what I think about Zizek. After his amazing film Perverts Guide to the Cinema, he just seems to be jacking off. Saying nothing provocatively.
posted by jasper411 at 9:10 AM on May 9, 2014 [2 favorites]
he just seems to be jacking off. Saying nothing provocatively.
Care to expand on that?
posted by Drexen at 9:22 AM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Care to expand on that?
posted by Drexen at 9:22 AM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Here's a quote from Chomsky that captures the flavor I was trying to characterize:
What you’re referring to is what’s called “theory.” And when I said I’m not interested in theory, what I meant is, I’m not interested in posturing–using fancy terms like polysyllables and pretending you have a theory when you have no theory whatsoever. So there’s no theory in any of this stuff, not in the sense of theory that anyone is familiar with in the sciences or any other serious field. Try to find in all of the work you mentioned some principles from which you can deduce conclusions, empirically testable propositions where it all goes beyond the level of something you can explain in five minutes to a twelve-year-old. See if you can find that when the fancy words are decoded. I can’t. So I’m not interested in that kind of posturing. Žižek is an extreme example of it.
It may indeed be that I'm missing something - I really was excited by his thinking and innovation in the Pervert's Guide. But it seemed like he became famous and then started just throwing around provocative statements that aren't particularly generative, but seem more like strings of empty words.
posted by jasper411 at 9:39 AM on May 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
What you’re referring to is what’s called “theory.” And when I said I’m not interested in theory, what I meant is, I’m not interested in posturing–using fancy terms like polysyllables and pretending you have a theory when you have no theory whatsoever. So there’s no theory in any of this stuff, not in the sense of theory that anyone is familiar with in the sciences or any other serious field. Try to find in all of the work you mentioned some principles from which you can deduce conclusions, empirically testable propositions where it all goes beyond the level of something you can explain in five minutes to a twelve-year-old. See if you can find that when the fancy words are decoded. I can’t. So I’m not interested in that kind of posturing. Žižek is an extreme example of it.
It may indeed be that I'm missing something - I really was excited by his thinking and innovation in the Pervert's Guide. But it seemed like he became famous and then started just throwing around provocative statements that aren't particularly generative, but seem more like strings of empty words.
posted by jasper411 at 9:39 AM on May 9, 2014 [7 favorites]
Needs more ponderances regarding the relations of toilets to culture.
posted by symbioid at 10:16 AM on May 9, 2014
posted by symbioid at 10:16 AM on May 9, 2014
Drexen: "he just seems to be jacking off. Saying nothing provocatively.
Care to expand on that?"
There's a scene in there where he unzips his pants, and pulls out his penis and begins masturbating, nonchalantly pointing out that he is, indeed masturbating. "How can this be provocative?" He asks, "When the brutality on the screen is reminiscent of the horrors of the industrialization of murder as echoed in the regime of industrial chemistry that ultimately brought about celluloid and film, but also insecticides that kill dangerous pests, but also weaken the entire ecosystem, in the same way, these modern processes degrade and dehumaniz....oh... oh... I feel it... STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALIN!!!!!"
/exeunt
posted by symbioid at 10:21 AM on May 9, 2014 [11 favorites]
Care to expand on that?"
There's a scene in there where he unzips his pants, and pulls out his penis and begins masturbating, nonchalantly pointing out that he is, indeed masturbating. "How can this be provocative?" He asks, "When the brutality on the screen is reminiscent of the horrors of the industrialization of murder as echoed in the regime of industrial chemistry that ultimately brought about celluloid and film, but also insecticides that kill dangerous pests, but also weaken the entire ecosystem, in the same way, these modern processes degrade and dehumaniz....oh... oh... I feel it... STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALIN!!!!!"
/exeunt
posted by symbioid at 10:21 AM on May 9, 2014 [11 favorites]
I... I favourited that because it was well done, but now I feel dirty.
posted by sneebler at 12:56 PM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by sneebler at 12:56 PM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
It seems Zizek is best when he's writing 1000 words or less. I enjoyed this article because Zizek "explain in five minutes to a twelve-year-old" the contradiction in our perceptions of these events:
"Although the official arguments are highly moral, revolving around human rights and freedoms, the nature of the game is clear. The events in Ukraine seem something like the crisis in Georgia, part two – the next stage of a geopolitical struggle for control in a nonregulated, multicentred world."
posted by xtian at 3:42 PM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Although the official arguments are highly moral, revolving around human rights and freedoms, the nature of the game is clear. The events in Ukraine seem something like the crisis in Georgia, part two – the next stage of a geopolitical struggle for control in a nonregulated, multicentred world."
posted by xtian at 3:42 PM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
It seems Zizek is best when he's writing 1000 words or less.
Yes. If we let him ramble on too much it gets messy, but just ask for a summary and he has some decent insights.
laying out really straightforward political problems and admitting he doesn't necessarily have a solution.
Yes, there is no simple solution to the Vladimir verses Ukraine situation right now the way things are. We have to hope for the best and try to make decent decisions in the near future.
posted by ovvl at 5:11 PM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes. If we let him ramble on too much it gets messy, but just ask for a summary and he has some decent insights.
laying out really straightforward political problems and admitting he doesn't necessarily have a solution.
Yes, there is no simple solution to the Vladimir verses Ukraine situation right now the way things are. We have to hope for the best and try to make decent decisions in the near future.
posted by ovvl at 5:11 PM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
That photo of Putin and Obama reminds me of "Ebony and Ivory" by Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder.
posted by Renoroc at 6:50 PM on May 9, 2014
posted by Renoroc at 6:50 PM on May 9, 2014
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posted by oulipian at 8:47 AM on May 9, 2014 [1 favorite]