"Let me tell you something, Elvin."
September 18, 2014 8:02 AM Subscribe
Thirty years ago this month, NBC premiered "The Cosby Show" and changed the television landscape. And though people will rightly remember it as a groundbreaking show for African Americans (and sweaters), Slate's Jason Bailey argues that it was just as important in its feminism.
Let's not forget that Sonia Braga was cast as Theo Huxtable's math teacher, Mrs. Westlake. Intelligent, beautiful, sexy, confident. Love the episode when she came to visit Theo at his home.
posted by Fizz at 8:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 8:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
[Image of Clair glaring at Elvin because it is what floats over my shoulder whenever I do or say something even remotely sexist]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:17 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:17 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
Thanks for the interesting links!
Also celebrate the anniversary with a stroll through the archives of Huxtable Hotness, the internet's premier episode-by-episode Cosby Show fashion review blog.
posted by aka burlap at 8:22 AM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
Also celebrate the anniversary with a stroll through the archives of Huxtable Hotness, the internet's premier episode-by-episode Cosby Show fashion review blog.
posted by aka burlap at 8:22 AM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
/dances awkwardly to jazz music
"...general lack of interest in explicitly addressing issues of race..."
I disagree. For example, I distinctly recall an episode where it came out that Dr. Huxtable conked his hair in his youth. This revelation resulted in a lot of hilarity for the show's family and for black viewers, but for white viewers, it was a lesson in black culture and black history.
The Cosby Show didn't hit you over the head with race. There was no Very Special Racial Episode during sweeps. The Huxtables were presented as an American family with many commonalities with other TV families (the Bradys, the Bradfords, the Waltons, the Cleavers, the Cuninghams, etc.) that nonetheless had--and celebrated!--their own culture and worldview (which probably puts them more in line with the likes of the Clampetts or the Addams Family, just not as exaggerated) with no regards as to whether the viewer "got it" or not.
That, in and of itself, was a way of addressing race: here it is, deal with it. The approach might not have been explicit a la the Evans family on Good Times, but it certainly wasn't a lack of interest in addressing race.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:25 AM on September 18, 2014 [20 favorites]
"...general lack of interest in explicitly addressing issues of race..."
I disagree. For example, I distinctly recall an episode where it came out that Dr. Huxtable conked his hair in his youth. This revelation resulted in a lot of hilarity for the show's family and for black viewers, but for white viewers, it was a lesson in black culture and black history.
The Cosby Show didn't hit you over the head with race. There was no Very Special Racial Episode during sweeps. The Huxtables were presented as an American family with many commonalities with other TV families (the Bradys, the Bradfords, the Waltons, the Cleavers, the Cuninghams, etc.) that nonetheless had--and celebrated!--their own culture and worldview (which probably puts them more in line with the likes of the Clampetts or the Addams Family, just not as exaggerated) with no regards as to whether the viewer "got it" or not.
That, in and of itself, was a way of addressing race: here it is, deal with it. The approach might not have been explicit a la the Evans family on Good Times, but it certainly wasn't a lack of interest in addressing race.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:25 AM on September 18, 2014 [20 favorites]
I posted this because I like the Slate article, but part of me just wanted to use that quote for the post title. Anyone who remembers that show will probably get a grin on their face when they read that as it precedes one of the greatest moments in Television history. Even the studio audience at the time audibly react as if they know they are about to witness something epic.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:29 AM on September 18, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:29 AM on September 18, 2014 [20 favorites]
Thank you for "Huxtable Hotness," as I was able to find a picture of the "costume" that Rudy helped Cliff make for Halloween one year - a sight that made me laugh for a solid minute after I saw it during its original broadcast. Scroll down until you see it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:30 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:30 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
[Image of Clair glaring at Elvin because it is what floats over my shoulder whenever I do or say something even remotely sexist]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:17 AM on September 18
Clair Huxtable had the greatest glare in the history of American television . Also, given the opening quote of the OP, I'm shocked by the lack of this gif.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:32 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:17 AM on September 18
Clair Huxtable had the greatest glare in the history of American television . Also, given the opening quote of the OP, I'm shocked by the lack of this gif.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:32 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
That gif perfectly encapsulates everything that I loved so fucking much about the show, from the Clair Glare to the ever present Cliff Facepalm.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:34 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:34 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
Great article. And it's also worth saying that the success of The Cosby Show allowed Roseanne to happen, which also made huge feminist strides - and took up working-class issues, and mental health issues - to an extent TV today never comes close to emulating. So yay to Clair for that too. And to Carsey-Werner.
Also it was this previously thread about Huxtable Hotness that made me realize what a huge influence Denise Huxtable had - and still has - on my fashion sense.
posted by Mchelly at 8:35 AM on September 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
Also it was this previously thread about Huxtable Hotness that made me realize what a huge influence Denise Huxtable had - and still has - on my fashion sense.
posted by Mchelly at 8:35 AM on September 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
And let's mention something else! Cliff Huxtable loved loved LOVED being married to a feminist. His obvious pleasure whenever Clair brought the smack-down on a deserving sexist was half the fun of the show.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [54 favorites]
posted by magstheaxe at 8:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [54 favorites]
I am sympathetic with the criticism from some that TCS didn't address race issues head on. And I do think (even as a upper midwest white dude) there needs to be a vigorous kicking over of rocks to see what is underneath in America regarding these issues.
But, there always seems to be a but, I simultaneously think shows like TCS are vital in normalization of ideas and experiences.
I believe where this country started turning the corner regarding same sex marriage equality is when people finally started realizing that 'the other' (in this case people who are gay and lesbian) where not really that 'other'. That in a lot of instances they wanted the same things, the same security, and stability.
So, in regards to race issues in America, yes to the more radical in-your-face spokespeople, we always need that passion. But, also yes to just-us-folks approaches that gently normalizes common experiences and desires. Because the one (direct and loud) is fantastic for the choir, but the other is needed for the missionary work.
And Clair Huxtable was a kick-ass character
posted by edgeways at 8:40 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
But, there always seems to be a but, I simultaneously think shows like TCS are vital in normalization of ideas and experiences.
I believe where this country started turning the corner regarding same sex marriage equality is when people finally started realizing that 'the other' (in this case people who are gay and lesbian) where not really that 'other'. That in a lot of instances they wanted the same things, the same security, and stability.
So, in regards to race issues in America, yes to the more radical in-your-face spokespeople, we always need that passion. But, also yes to just-us-folks approaches that gently normalizes common experiences and desires. Because the one (direct and loud) is fantastic for the choir, but the other is needed for the missionary work.
And Clair Huxtable was a kick-ass character
posted by edgeways at 8:40 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
First I feared Claire, then I worshipped her.
Still do.
I have mixed feelings about the daughters. None of them, save maybe Rudy, had the sense God gave a goose. If I was their mother, I would despair over why my intelligence and competence had somehow gotten lost in the genetic code.
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
posted by emjaybee at 8:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
Still do.
I have mixed feelings about the daughters. None of them, save maybe Rudy, had the sense God gave a goose. If I was their mother, I would despair over why my intelligence and competence had somehow gotten lost in the genetic code.
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
posted by emjaybee at 8:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
People like to claim that just because we had the Cosby show, that people don't see sweaters anymore. That sweaters no longer matter in America.
Let me tell you from personal experience. They matter...
posted by Naberius at 8:43 AM on September 18, 2014 [14 favorites]
Let me tell you from personal experience. They matter...
posted by Naberius at 8:43 AM on September 18, 2014 [14 favorites]
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
Theo with a rat-tail. No. No he does not get a pass.
posted by Fizz at 8:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Theo with a rat-tail. No. No he does not get a pass.
posted by Fizz at 8:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
His obvious pleasure whenever Clair brought the smack-down on a deserving sexist was half the fun of the show.
THAT is not a donut!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
THAT is not a donut!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about the daughters. None of them, save maybe Rudy, had the sense God gave a goose. If I was their mother, I would despair over why my intelligence and competence had somehow gotten lost in the genetic code.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM
Cracked.com actually made a good point about the Cosby Show: that they had the most realistic kids:
...The Cosby Show didn't have the nerdy genius child character because kids are almost never smarter than their parents. They didn't have the stock dumb kid character because real people are more interesting and complicated than what they get on their report cards. After eight seasons, none of the Huxtable children lived up to the expectations and hopes that their hardworking middle-class parents had for them. In fact, it was a running joke that every one of them would end up back in their parents' home as moochers for the rest of their lives.
That's the lesson of The Cosby Show: No one gets to micromanage their kids toward success. In other words, Bill Cosby nailed the central millennial problem even as millennials were getting born.
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM
I can never forget this moment, though.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:48 AM on September 18, 2014 [23 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM
Cracked.com actually made a good point about the Cosby Show: that they had the most realistic kids:
...The Cosby Show didn't have the nerdy genius child character because kids are almost never smarter than their parents. They didn't have the stock dumb kid character because real people are more interesting and complicated than what they get on their report cards. After eight seasons, none of the Huxtable children lived up to the expectations and hopes that their hardworking middle-class parents had for them. In fact, it was a running joke that every one of them would end up back in their parents' home as moochers for the rest of their lives.
That's the lesson of The Cosby Show: No one gets to micromanage their kids toward success. In other words, Bill Cosby nailed the central millennial problem even as millennials were getting born.
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
posted by emjaybee at 11:41 AM
I can never forget this moment, though.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:48 AM on September 18, 2014 [23 favorites]
Yeah, race very rarely ever came up on The Cosby Show. It was very much post-racial in its outlook, for better or worse.
Combating sexism, on the other hand, was a major theme in many if not most episodes. Often-recurring characters like Buuuuuud and Elvin pretty much only exist as object lessons, and then there's Theo's bacon-burger-dog stuff, etc., etc., etc.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:55 AM on September 18, 2014
Combating sexism, on the other hand, was a major theme in many if not most episodes. Often-recurring characters like Buuuuuud and Elvin pretty much only exist as object lessons, and then there's Theo's bacon-burger-dog stuff, etc., etc., etc.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:55 AM on September 18, 2014
Cliff wasn’t just a passive husband who tolerated his wife’s independence:
Why I loved this show growing up -- a real man whose masculinity was not threatened by the presence of estrogen and a woman who was who she was and made no excuses for being who she was. They were both equals in every way -- and they had *fun* without being pleasers or pushovers...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:55 AM on September 18, 2014 [15 favorites]
Why I loved this show growing up -- a real man whose masculinity was not threatened by the presence of estrogen and a woman who was who she was and made no excuses for being who she was. They were both equals in every way -- and they had *fun* without being pleasers or pushovers...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:55 AM on September 18, 2014 [15 favorites]
Yeah, race very rarely ever came up on The Cosby Show.
My favourite discussion of race in a black family sitcom was the time on Fresh Prince when Aunt Janice brought over her fiance.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:00 AM on September 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
My favourite discussion of race in a black family sitcom was the time on Fresh Prince when Aunt Janice brought over her fiance.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:00 AM on September 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
He got rid of the rat-tail! But yes, he was a goof until early adulthood.
In fact, it was a running joke that every one of them would end up back in their parents' home as moochers for the rest of their lives.
That's the lesson of The Cosby Show: No one gets to micromanage their kids toward success. In other words, Bill Cosby nailed the central millennial problem even as millennials were getting born.
But how could two driven, intelligent folks have no kids that inherited that drive? I see this not as "realistic" but as a fault of the writing. Cosby made jokes about goofy things kids do, and that's great, unless you're writing a show where those kids grow up but they never stop being goofy. Though, I think as the show aged and characters moved on, the implication was that the older ones were doing ok at least some of the time. The weakness of the show was always that the other characters were created as props for Cosby's jokes, and so for the actors to transcend that in a sitcom format was going to be a struggle. Some episodes they did, though; that's what made the show still have good moments, when the actors (Eldon, for example) were able to flesh out their characters a little. Claire aside, the guys had it better than the women in this department; we never really got to understand the daughters the way we got to understand Theo. I think that probably reflects Cosby's biases; what it was like to grow up from a girl to a woman and find yourself was not something he could imagine well, and the daughter characters suffered from that. (Contrast with Roseanne, where the daughters rang absolutely true).
And the millennials are not fuckups, they inherited a shitshow economy. That's a different issue entirely.
posted by emjaybee at 9:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
In fact, it was a running joke that every one of them would end up back in their parents' home as moochers for the rest of their lives.
That's the lesson of The Cosby Show: No one gets to micromanage their kids toward success. In other words, Bill Cosby nailed the central millennial problem even as millennials were getting born.
But how could two driven, intelligent folks have no kids that inherited that drive? I see this not as "realistic" but as a fault of the writing. Cosby made jokes about goofy things kids do, and that's great, unless you're writing a show where those kids grow up but they never stop being goofy. Though, I think as the show aged and characters moved on, the implication was that the older ones were doing ok at least some of the time. The weakness of the show was always that the other characters were created as props for Cosby's jokes, and so for the actors to transcend that in a sitcom format was going to be a struggle. Some episodes they did, though; that's what made the show still have good moments, when the actors (Eldon, for example) were able to flesh out their characters a little. Claire aside, the guys had it better than the women in this department; we never really got to understand the daughters the way we got to understand Theo. I think that probably reflects Cosby's biases; what it was like to grow up from a girl to a woman and find yourself was not something he could imagine well, and the daughter characters suffered from that. (Contrast with Roseanne, where the daughters rang absolutely true).
And the millennials are not fuckups, they inherited a shitshow economy. That's a different issue entirely.
posted by emjaybee at 9:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
"Claire Glare"
That's my new favorite thing ever.....
posted by pearlybob at 9:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
That's my new favorite thing ever.....
posted by pearlybob at 9:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
That's a good point magstheaxe. The Cosby Show was the first show I ever saw where the kids behaved like my brother and sister and I did - when they fought, they really looked like they were trying to kill each other.
posted by Mchelly at 9:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Mchelly at 9:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
A well deserved FPP. Thank you. I grew up on this. And those sweaters were awesome.
posted by infini at 9:07 AM on September 18, 2014
posted by infini at 9:07 AM on September 18, 2014
Yeah, race very rarely ever came up on The Cosby Show.
Yup, as a farm kid in Canada I can honestly say that the fact they were African-American never occurred to me at any point.
The Cosby Show + Race = Fresh Prince (not The Cosby Show by any means, but it had its moments)
posted by Cosine at 9:10 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yup, as a farm kid in Canada I can honestly say that the fact they were African-American never occurred to me at any point.
The Cosby Show + Race = Fresh Prince (not The Cosby Show by any means, but it had its moments)
posted by Cosine at 9:10 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
emjaybee: Was Sondra not driven?
posted by Cosine at 9:11 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Cosine at 9:11 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Contrast with Roseanne, where the daughters rang absolutely true
Absolutely, DJ was completely two dimensional, much worse than the Cosby daughters.
posted by Cosine at 9:12 AM on September 18, 2014
Absolutely, DJ was completely two dimensional, much worse than the Cosby daughters.
posted by Cosine at 9:12 AM on September 18, 2014
But how could two driven, intelligent folks have no kids that inherited that drive?
Let TISM explain it for you: "Growing up is not a matter of choice.
It's a matter of wait and see."
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Let TISM explain it for you: "Growing up is not a matter of choice.
It's a matter of wait and see."
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
And let's mention something else! Cliff Huxtable loved loved LOVED being married to a feminist. His obvious pleasure whenever Clair brought the smack-down on a deserving sexist was half the fun of the show.
Yeah, that was the other amazing thing about their relationship; he'd gone from being an Elvin to enlightenment, and was so comfortable with it and had none of that comedic-but-unfunny lingering resentment about it, so much so that he would really enjoy seeing Clair dismantle it point by point in other, less enlightened men.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Yeah, race very rarely ever came up on The Cosby Show. It was very much post-racial in its outlook, for better or worse.
Consider the time and network it was broadcast on, during the height of the Reagan era, consider also the fact that Bill Cosby himself certainly has a conservative leaning, is it any wonder the show is conservative in its outlook, prefering to focus on individual responsibility over a perhaps more realistic look at race in America?
It was a conservative enough show that the non-insane protestant Christian broadcaster in the Netherlands felt comfortable showing it at prime time (prompting one righteous rant by a subscriber wanting to know if the "C" in the network's name now stood for Comedy rather than Christianity).
Was that a bad thing? I don't know. Perhaps having a comedy series on prime time showing a black family dealing with the same sort of problems any of their white audience could recognise, a safe show because it never mentions nor lectures about racism, yet which still shows pride in the Huxtables' heritage -- Cliff's jazz playing dad and such -- was the best thing that could happen at that particular time and space, even if it wasn't quite true to the black experience of America.
posted by MartinWisse at 9:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Consider the time and network it was broadcast on, during the height of the Reagan era, consider also the fact that Bill Cosby himself certainly has a conservative leaning, is it any wonder the show is conservative in its outlook, prefering to focus on individual responsibility over a perhaps more realistic look at race in America?
It was a conservative enough show that the non-insane protestant Christian broadcaster in the Netherlands felt comfortable showing it at prime time (prompting one righteous rant by a subscriber wanting to know if the "C" in the network's name now stood for Comedy rather than Christianity).
Was that a bad thing? I don't know. Perhaps having a comedy series on prime time showing a black family dealing with the same sort of problems any of their white audience could recognise, a safe show because it never mentions nor lectures about racism, yet which still shows pride in the Huxtables' heritage -- Cliff's jazz playing dad and such -- was the best thing that could happen at that particular time and space, even if it wasn't quite true to the black experience of America.
posted by MartinWisse at 9:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
But how could two driven, intelligent folks have no kids that inherited that drive?
I don't know what Cosby Show you watched. All the Huxtable kids who were old enough went to college, and only one dropped out permanently. Sondra studied law at Princeton. Theo studied psychology at NYU. Denise went to Hillman (the same fictional college both Cliff and Clair went to). Vanessa went to Lincoln.
Pretty much every misstep they made along the way was because they were young and passionate and had the opportunity and the freedom to do so. Those are all good things.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:25 AM on September 18, 2014 [28 favorites]
I don't know what Cosby Show you watched. All the Huxtable kids who were old enough went to college, and only one dropped out permanently. Sondra studied law at Princeton. Theo studied psychology at NYU. Denise went to Hillman (the same fictional college both Cliff and Clair went to). Vanessa went to Lincoln.
Pretty much every misstep they made along the way was because they were young and passionate and had the opportunity and the freedom to do so. Those are all good things.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:25 AM on September 18, 2014 [28 favorites]
I can never forget this moment, though.
Was that in the pilot? Because I remember watching the first episode with my family, and it was precisely at this moment that we knew it was going to be something special. I clearly remember the laugh-out-loud response from everyone in the room as we expected something a lot more sentimental from Theo's set-up, and I think that the humor came in large part in subverting expectations. It was a needed smack-down by Cliff Huxtable that not only represented real life, but also bucked the trending idea that kids just needed to be affirmed to the nth degree to succeed.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:27 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Was that in the pilot? Because I remember watching the first episode with my family, and it was precisely at this moment that we knew it was going to be something special. I clearly remember the laugh-out-loud response from everyone in the room as we expected something a lot more sentimental from Theo's set-up, and I think that the humor came in large part in subverting expectations. It was a needed smack-down by Cliff Huxtable that not only represented real life, but also bucked the trending idea that kids just needed to be affirmed to the nth degree to succeed.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:27 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Was Sondra not driven?
An African-American couple opening a wilderness store in 1987 New York is pretty fucking driven if you ask me.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:31 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
An African-American couple opening a wilderness store in 1987 New York is pretty fucking driven if you ask me.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:31 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
Gordon Fucking Gartrell.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:33 AM on September 18, 2014 [10 favorites]
Gordon Fucking Gartrell.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:33 AM on September 18, 2014 [10 favorites]
An African-American couple opening a wilderness store in 1987 New York is pretty fucking driven if you ask me.
That subplot always gets me, simply from the writers inflicting the name "Wilderness Store" on those characters. It's camping supplies, people! It's a camping supply store! But instead, they had them use this awkward descriptor to communicate that even Elvin and Sondra didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:35 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
That subplot always gets me, simply from the writers inflicting the name "Wilderness Store" on those characters. It's camping supplies, people! It's a camping supply store! But instead, they had them use this awkward descriptor to communicate that even Elvin and Sondra didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:35 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Always felt bad, though, that they had to resort to Cousin Oliver Syndrome at the end.
posted by Melismata at 10:12 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 10:12 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
And then that time, that Rudy fought back against him, kicked him and then put him in a headlock that the TEACHER had to remove!
That was not Kenny. It was Clarence. And they were forced to dance the next day.
My Cosby Game is strong!!
posted by Fizz at 10:13 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
That was not Kenny. It was Clarence. And they were forced to dance the next day.
My Cosby Game is strong!!
posted by Fizz at 10:13 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
THAT is not a donut!
Oh yes, no discussion of Clair Huxtable, Modern Hero is at all complete without discussing "Mrs. Huxtable Goes to Kindegarten" - the episode where Clair is the new panelist on a TV talk show, and the three old white dudes treat her like she doesn't know anything and she's proven right, and then after things escalate it basically comes up that they think of her as a toofer who will bring both the "Black" and "female" perspective and come back from commercial with this:
Guy: Could you tell us what effect the depression had on the blacks?
Claire: You want me to sum that up in 30 seconds?
Guy: It's closer to 20 seconds now. How did the depression affect blacks?
Claire: Well, we learned that misery does not love company.
I remember this moment most clearly because it was followed by a loud noise and cheer that typically only happened in our house for sporting events.
Of course, Clair doesn't continue in this new role:
Getting up at 4am to prove who I am to three men who are basking in the non-existent rays of their own intelligence is *not* my idea of a fun time.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Oh yes, no discussion of Clair Huxtable, Modern Hero is at all complete without discussing "Mrs. Huxtable Goes to Kindegarten" - the episode where Clair is the new panelist on a TV talk show, and the three old white dudes treat her like she doesn't know anything and she's proven right, and then after things escalate it basically comes up that they think of her as a toofer who will bring both the "Black" and "female" perspective and come back from commercial with this:
Guy: Could you tell us what effect the depression had on the blacks?
Claire: You want me to sum that up in 30 seconds?
Guy: It's closer to 20 seconds now. How did the depression affect blacks?
Claire: Well, we learned that misery does not love company.
I remember this moment most clearly because it was followed by a loud noise and cheer that typically only happened in our house for sporting events.
Of course, Clair doesn't continue in this new role:
Getting up at 4am to prove who I am to three men who are basking in the non-existent rays of their own intelligence is *not* my idea of a fun time.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Awesome! Wondering why I couldn't find it on YouTube.
Here you go.
14:00 minutes is where you'll want to jump to. Oh and most if not all of the Cosby Show episodes are available on YouTube. Just in case you were bored at work during lunch and needed a quick 20 minute distraction.
:)
posted by Fizz at 10:21 AM on September 18, 2014
Here you go.
14:00 minutes is where you'll want to jump to. Oh and most if not all of the Cosby Show episodes are available on YouTube. Just in case you were bored at work during lunch and needed a quick 20 minute distraction.
:)
posted by Fizz at 10:21 AM on September 18, 2014
Maybe I have to see this show. I only saw two episodes: the one with Lena Horne and the one with Danny Kaye because they had Lena Horne. And Danny Kaye.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:30 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:30 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
"which still shows pride in the Huxtables' heritage -- Cliff's jazz playing dad and such -- was the best thing that could happen at that particular time and space "
I swear I fell in love with jazz because of the grandpa on the Cosby Show. The often used Cliff's parents as a vector for discussing black history with the children, often in situations where it would naturally come up. The grandfather talks about how HIS father was a railway porter and saved so his son could go to college; they talk about the March on Washington; there's lots and lots of discussion of "Hillman," the fictional historically black college that 3 generations of Huxtables attended. I think it was powerful precisely because it was treated as so incredibly normal ... of course Cliff and Claire go to Hillman reunions and visit with old Hillman classmates and so forth, just like on any American sitcom where the parents met at Fictional College and talk about typical Fictional College things.
I think there was real power in normalizing this as such a typical American story that it could be a normal American sitcom family's specific but universally-relateable backstory. (Generations of parents working hard so their children can have a better life, while fighting for recognition of their civil rights, ending in everyone eventually going to college? It's the Americanest story that ever Americaned!)
Actually, I'm hoping Black-ish this coming season captures some of that same spirit (and Cristela, too), where these universally-recognizable amusing foibles of human families are given interest and texture by being placed in culturally-specific milieus.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
I swear I fell in love with jazz because of the grandpa on the Cosby Show. The often used Cliff's parents as a vector for discussing black history with the children, often in situations where it would naturally come up. The grandfather talks about how HIS father was a railway porter and saved so his son could go to college; they talk about the March on Washington; there's lots and lots of discussion of "Hillman," the fictional historically black college that 3 generations of Huxtables attended. I think it was powerful precisely because it was treated as so incredibly normal ... of course Cliff and Claire go to Hillman reunions and visit with old Hillman classmates and so forth, just like on any American sitcom where the parents met at Fictional College and talk about typical Fictional College things.
I think there was real power in normalizing this as such a typical American story that it could be a normal American sitcom family's specific but universally-relateable backstory. (Generations of parents working hard so their children can have a better life, while fighting for recognition of their civil rights, ending in everyone eventually going to college? It's the Americanest story that ever Americaned!)
Actually, I'm hoping Black-ish this coming season captures some of that same spirit (and Cristela, too), where these universally-recognizable amusing foibles of human families are given interest and texture by being placed in culturally-specific milieus.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
Terrific article! It's weird, too, because Geoffrey Owens (who played Elvin) has sort of popped back into the zeitgeist, showing up as part of a church outreach program on The Leftovers. I hope we see more of him.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:38 AM on September 18, 2014
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:38 AM on September 18, 2014
I swear I fell in love with jazz because of the grandpa on the Cosby Show.
Which Grandpa?
For some reason sideways.
posted by Fizz at 10:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Which Grandpa?
For some reason sideways.
posted by Fizz at 10:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
A family where the father cooks too, and pitches in with the kids, and where everyone has responsibilities.”
One of my favorite moments from the show, when Cosby imitates Julia Child while cooking
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:46 AM on September 18, 2014
One of my favorite moments from the show, when Cosby imitates Julia Child while cooking
posted by I am the Walrus at 10:46 AM on September 18, 2014
I hope we see more of him.
He also shows up on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia occasionally, hilariously standing in for various African American celebrities (and always called out by the main characters as actually being the guy from the Cosby Show).
posted by doctornecessiter at 10:52 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
He also shows up on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia occasionally, hilariously standing in for various African American celebrities (and always called out by the main characters as actually being the guy from the Cosby Show).
posted by doctornecessiter at 10:52 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Questlove discusses The Cosby Show's influence on modern hip hop
posted by billyfleetwood at 10:54 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by billyfleetwood at 10:54 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I am 100% sure that the reason I grew up to be an anti-racist feminist despite coming from a family of conservative white southerners is that my favorite TV show was The Cosby Show when I was six.
posted by Sara C. at 11:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 11:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [8 favorites]
That subplot always gets me, simply from the writers inflicting the name "Wilderness Store" on those characters. It's camping supplies, people! It's a camping supply store! But instead, they had them use this awkward descriptor to communicate that even Elvin and Sondra didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
I think that was my thing with Sondra/Elvin; not that they weren't smart or capable, but they did inexplicable things that (you get the feeling) their parents would not have done. I wanted them to succeed; I wanted especially to like Sondra and Vanessa (I gave up on Denise) as capable the way their mom was, but instead there was a lot of flailing around and starting wilderness stores and marrying random older dudes for no reason (that was one weird storyline for Vanessa, and she came off as very stupid and insensitive).
I mean, all of that was comedy gold, but it always felt unfair to me. I was pretty invested in those characters at the time, obviously. And I felt like Elvin got redeemed, we got a pretty sympathetic portrayal of the Navy dude who married Denise, and the guy who married Vanessa and then got dumped came off as decent and bonded with Cliff. But the daughters always remained sort of inexplicable. And again, I think that had a lot to do with the writing.
Let us not even get into the plots on "A Different World."
posted by emjaybee at 12:00 PM on September 18, 2014
I think that was my thing with Sondra/Elvin; not that they weren't smart or capable, but they did inexplicable things that (you get the feeling) their parents would not have done. I wanted them to succeed; I wanted especially to like Sondra and Vanessa (I gave up on Denise) as capable the way their mom was, but instead there was a lot of flailing around and starting wilderness stores and marrying random older dudes for no reason (that was one weird storyline for Vanessa, and she came off as very stupid and insensitive).
I mean, all of that was comedy gold, but it always felt unfair to me. I was pretty invested in those characters at the time, obviously. And I felt like Elvin got redeemed, we got a pretty sympathetic portrayal of the Navy dude who married Denise, and the guy who married Vanessa and then got dumped came off as decent and bonded with Cliff. But the daughters always remained sort of inexplicable. And again, I think that had a lot to do with the writing.
Let us not even get into the plots on "A Different World."
posted by emjaybee at 12:00 PM on September 18, 2014
Oh hell yes. Clair Huxtable was one of my earliest role models/heroes as a feminist mom and flawless queen.
She was one of my earliest models for who I wanted to marry: a smart, capable, funny woman who would call me on my bullshit but never felt competitive in our relationship.
Oh, and good-looking. ;-)
posted by grubi at 12:36 PM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
She was one of my earliest models for who I wanted to marry: a smart, capable, funny woman who would call me on my bullshit but never felt competitive in our relationship.
Oh, and good-looking. ;-)
posted by grubi at 12:36 PM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
Here are a few more interesting behind-the-scene Cosby Show facts. Even though Clair didn't end up being Dominican as Cosby originally envisioned, I note that Phylicia Rashad was fluent in Spanish and that skill was used in several episodes on the series. I think my favorite Clair moment is her Big Fun with the Wretched rant.
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:14 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:14 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
While I agree that they never made race a central theme in the show, I did notice that a good majority of the supporting cast and extras were not white. I don't think that Bill Cosby necessarily excluded white people, but when he did include them, they were more for comedic relief - his medical patients, the neighbours, etc.
I think Cosby really wanted to drive home the point that black people were real, black people had issues that TV would only show white people to have, that black people made a significant and important contribution to culture and art in this country and he did so successfully and in an inclusive manner.
I would bet even the art hung on the walls of the Huxtable home was created by African American artists.
So to me, while the Cosby show didn't come across as a show "about race" at all, it was an invitation to the audience to experience a culture that isn't quite as different as the one we are used to seeing.
posted by bitteroldman at 2:42 PM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think Cosby really wanted to drive home the point that black people were real, black people had issues that TV would only show white people to have, that black people made a significant and important contribution to culture and art in this country and he did so successfully and in an inclusive manner.
I would bet even the art hung on the walls of the Huxtable home was created by African American artists.
So to me, while the Cosby show didn't come across as a show "about race" at all, it was an invitation to the audience to experience a culture that isn't quite as different as the one we are used to seeing.
posted by bitteroldman at 2:42 PM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
I would bet even the art hung on the walls of the Huxtable home was created by African American artists.
Well, Yes. One was pointedly so and the subject of the season two episode "The Auction".
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:48 PM on September 18, 2014
Well, Yes. One was pointedly so and the subject of the season two episode "The Auction".
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:48 PM on September 18, 2014
I can never forget this moment, though.
"You see, the government comes for the regular people first." Amen, Cliff. Amen.
posted by dry white toast at 3:09 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
"You see, the government comes for the regular people first." Amen, Cliff. Amen.
posted by dry white toast at 3:09 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
The song from this scene was playing in the lounge at my place of business during lunch yesterday, and I was wandering around lipsynching Rudy's "BABY!!!!" bits. I was the perfect age for TCS (born in '77) to be a huge presence in my child and early teenage years. Younger people around me didn't understand how I had the timing so spot-on.
Also, yes, "I am bringing him a cup of coffee. Just like he brought me a cup of coffee this morning. And THAT, young man, is what marriage is made of. It is give and take. 50/50" rang through my head into adulthood. As a hetero male, it was my model, and I am proud that I ended up in a marriage that pretty much follows this exact philosophy. Thank you, Claire.
posted by dry white toast at 3:24 PM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
Also, yes, "I am bringing him a cup of coffee. Just like he brought me a cup of coffee this morning. And THAT, young man, is what marriage is made of. It is give and take. 50/50" rang through my head into adulthood. As a hetero male, it was my model, and I am proud that I ended up in a marriage that pretty much follows this exact philosophy. Thank you, Claire.
posted by dry white toast at 3:24 PM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
dry white toast, thanks *so much* for linking to the lip sync performance. After any of Claire's feminist rants, it's my second favorite Cosby Show moment. I remember so clearly the night that episode aired and enjoying that lip sync so much. Do you remember that at the end of the episode they played it again? It's all that we talked about at school the next day, Rudy hamming it up.
Thirty years? Dear lord, I'm old.
posted by Pocahontas at 5:36 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Thirty years? Dear lord, I'm old.
posted by Pocahontas at 5:36 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
It is because of the Cosby Show that many White people think that racism is a thing of the past. In that sense, one may think it did more harm than good
posted by Renoroc at 6:17 PM on September 18, 2014
posted by Renoroc at 6:17 PM on September 18, 2014
Reading Huxtable Hotness, I'm struck how much of an impact the clothes made on me. My personal color palette is pretty much the same teal/berry/eggplant/grey color story that was always happening with the Huxtables. The shapes less so aside from Stuff To Never Ever Wear (oy they pleated pants), but they are still the clothing styles of my early childhood. I know they must look to younger people the way that leisure suits and powder blue tuxedos look to me, but, yeah, everybody wore sweat suits, deal with it.
posted by Sara C. at 7:03 PM on September 18, 2014
posted by Sara C. at 7:03 PM on September 18, 2014
Theo turned out ok, he gets a pass.
A few years ago, Malcolm-Jamal Warner played the Dad on a BET channel sitcom Reed Between the Lines. It only ran for a season (and it had one of those weird slow-fade cancellations, where the network never officially confirms that they've killed it, despite apparently having an entire second season in the can) but there was something so perfect about seeing 'Theo' all grown up with a wife and children.
posted by oh yeah! at 8:53 PM on September 18, 2014
A few years ago, Malcolm-Jamal Warner played the Dad on a BET channel sitcom Reed Between the Lines. It only ran for a season (and it had one of those weird slow-fade cancellations, where the network never officially confirms that they've killed it, despite apparently having an entire second season in the can) but there was something so perfect about seeing 'Theo' all grown up with a wife and children.
posted by oh yeah! at 8:53 PM on September 18, 2014
Questlove discusses The Cosby Show's influence on modern hip hop
Oh great, now I've got "Jammin' on the one, j-j-jammin' on the one" stuck in my head. And I still don't know what it means.
posted by donajo at 9:27 PM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Oh great, now I've got "Jammin' on the one, j-j-jammin' on the one" stuck in my head. And I still don't know what it means.
posted by donajo at 9:27 PM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
It is because of the Cosby Show that many White people think that racism is a thing of the past. In that sense, one may think it did more harm than good
Everything minorities do is not in service of explaining things to White People.
posted by sweetkid at 8:32 AM on September 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
Oh great, now I've got "Jammin' on the one, j-j-jammin' on the one" stuck in my head. And I still don't know what it means.
Count your blessings, I can't stop seeing a Tom of Finland Doctor Huxtable
posted by thelonius at 9:41 AM on September 19, 2014
Count your blessings, I can't stop seeing a Tom of Finland Doctor Huxtable
posted by thelonius at 9:41 AM on September 19, 2014
It is because of the Cosby Show that many White people think that racism is a thing of the past. In that sense, one may think it did more harm than good
Everything minorities do is not in service of explaining things to White People.
True! TCS was a great introduction to many aspects of black American history for this Australian kid, though. I remember looking up the march on Washington, the history of jazz, myriad other things in our 70s vintage encyclopaedia.
Denise's style was most influential for me. I didn't know the episodes were on youtube, I'll definitely look them up. Thanks!
posted by goo at 12:14 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Everything minorities do is not in service of explaining things to White People.
True! TCS was a great introduction to many aspects of black American history for this Australian kid, though. I remember looking up the march on Washington, the history of jazz, myriad other things in our 70s vintage encyclopaedia.
Denise's style was most influential for me. I didn't know the episodes were on youtube, I'll definitely look them up. Thanks!
posted by goo at 12:14 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
That article was great, if only for reminding me how fantastic that show was.
Everything minorities do is not in service of explaining things to White People.
Hells fucking yes.
posted by chunking express at 12:28 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Everything minorities do is not in service of explaining things to White People.
Hells fucking yes.
posted by chunking express at 12:28 PM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Phylicia Rashad is reading poetry at Ruby Dee's memorial right now and she is just as majestic and glorious as ever.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:04 AM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:04 AM on September 20, 2014 [5 favorites]
I wish Phylicia Rashad and Emma Thompson were my parents.
posted by Sara C. at 12:21 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Sara C. at 12:21 PM on September 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
omg when do yuletide signups open
posted by poffin boffin at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2014
posted by poffin boffin at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2014
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