“The desserts are over there,”

October 27, 2014 6:18 PM

Supping At Sea: [The New Yorker] The ups and downs of cruise-ship cuisine.
posted by Fizz (60 comments total)

My favourite bit from this piece:

"Cruises that originate in Europe or Asia have different gastronomic profiles from ones that operate out of Fort Lauderdale, Dearie said. “The Spanish eat a lot more fruit, a lot more bread, a lot more cheeses,” he explained. “Brits like heavy foods, cold-weather foods.” Fruit consumption rises with air temperature. New Yorkers and people travelling without children are more likely to patronize the restaurants that require a surcharge. Australians drink the most. Americans like chewy cookies, but Europeans want crunchy, dunkable ones. Chinese travellers snack little, prefer set dining times, and usually want to sit with the other members of their tour group. They also drink less than people from most other countries, but shop and gamble more, and are highly unlikely to go dancing after dinner. On Asian cruises with large numbers of Chinese passengers, at least one of the ship’s night clubs will typically be converted into a high-stakes gaming room, to handle overflow from the casino.

posted by Fizz at 6:19 PM on October 27, 2014 [6 favorites]

Oasis is the second-largest cruise ship in the world; its sister ship, Allure of the Seas, was built from identical drawings but came out a couple of inches longer.

Um ... wait. How the hell does this happen?
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 6:41 PM on October 27, 2014 [12 favorites]

These ships are each nearly 1200' (over 360m) long. A couple of inches is 0.01% of that. That's like building a two-car garage and having it come out about a millimeter wider than the measurement on the blueprint.
posted by mbrubeck at 6:48 PM on October 27, 2014 [27 favorites]

Given how large these ships are, I would expect some variance. The thing is over 1,000 feet long so couple of inches doesn't seem that bad to me, but I'm not an engineer.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:50 PM on October 27, 2014

They probably swap overall length advantage just due to differential temperature changes.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 6:50 PM on October 27, 2014 [11 favorites]

Navy mess at sea.
1st week: Fresh
2nd week: Frozen
3rd week: Hoping for port call
4th week: Ketchup
5th week: Hot sauce
posted by Mblue at 6:52 PM on October 27, 2014 [29 favorites]

Also, he left out the other half of the equation. As all the tons of stock disappears from the stockrooms, the black water tanks rise in proportion... that's a huge system as well.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 6:53 PM on October 27, 2014 [6 favorites]

Um ... wait. How the hell does this happen?

From my experience with similarly complex systems, I would guess that they didn't update the drawings well enough after they built the first one. It's impossible to build something this large and complicated straight from the blueprints and not make changes; the builders will always find something that doesn't quite fit, rivet holes that don't quite line up, etc., and will bodge something together on the fly. Hopefully they notate the drawings to show what they did, but nine times out of ten it goes unmarked and then they next time they build from the drawings they run into the same problems and whoever's in charge that day decides on a different solution for the same problem.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:54 PM on October 27, 2014 [20 favorites]

So ... really freaking big, in other words. I'm familiar with variable vessel sizes, but in a completely different context.

When paying the harbour-master for moorage; "she's 48 feet, overall, mate".

At the pub on shore; "she's a 55 footer, baby".
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 6:56 PM on October 27, 2014 [19 favorites]

Also, he left out the other half of the equation

David Foster Wallace didn't make that mistake - good toilet coverage in his cruise ship piece.
posted by thelonius at 7:02 PM on October 27, 2014 [7 favorites]

I was on this ship. The strangest part was that you never really felt like you were out at sea - you could see the ocean, but not really feel it.

I don't recall any "downs" with the cuisine - the food was good overall. The logistics of keeping it all running smoothly are beyond me.

On Asian cruises with large numbers of Chinese passengers, at least one of the ship’s night clubs will typically be converted into a high-stakes gaming room, to handle overflow from the casino.

Meanwhile, on gay cruises, the casino is almost empty and every other free space is converted into a dance floor.
posted by kanewai at 7:03 PM on October 27, 2014 [3 favorites]

If the hull of the Oasis of the Seas changes in temperature from 55 degrees to 75 degrees as it goes from England to the Bahamas it grows in length about 3 1/2 inches.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 7:24 PM on October 27, 2014 [6 favorites]

As all the tons of stock disappears from the stockrooms, the black water tanks rise in proportion... that's a huge system as well.

I don't think they have the capacity to keep all the sewage in tanks, at least on longer voyages. My understanding is that they have sewage-treatment systems similar to those of modern cities and discharge the processed water overboard. (They make the same claims that all manufacturers of such systems do, i.e. it's "clean enough to drink!", but they never seem to actually want to try it out.)

Fresh water is produced via reverse osmosis desalination, not brought from shore, as well. I'd imagine that particularly at some small Caribbean ports, they'd be a big hit to the local fresh water supply otherwise.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:38 PM on October 27, 2014 [1 favorite]

The cup has a radio-frequency identification chip in its base...(which) enable(s) users to serve themselves more than a hundred different soft drinks and soft-drink combinations, and to add flavorings (such as orange, a favorite among passengers from the Baltics).

The Baltics! Why have we never been offered orange flavored Coca Cola? It sounds very intriguing and now I'm speculating about blood orange coke!
posted by Anitanola at 7:54 PM on October 27, 2014 [3 favorites]

Why have we never been offered orange flavored Coca Cola?

Did you mean Fanta?
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 8:05 PM on October 27, 2014 [1 favorite]

It's been a while since I saw a Coke Freestyle machine -- our local Burger King has one -- but ISTR that you can indeed get orange-flavored Coke from them. I also STR that it was kind of revolting.

(Freestyle machines are basically $SODA_BASE + $FLAVOR_ADDITION. Thus, cherry vanilla root beer. *Heave*.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:11 PM on October 27, 2014

Do you mean...Mezzo Mix??
posted by mynameisluka at 8:18 PM on October 27, 2014

The stuff put out by those Coke Freestyle machines is vile. You end up with a weird aftertaste of all the shit that's been served out of them before, and it's just gross.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:25 PM on October 27, 2014 [3 favorites]

Metafilter: …as it goes from England to the Bahamas it grows in length about 3 1/2 inches.
posted by standardasparagus at 8:36 PM on October 27, 2014 [9 favorites]

That's the opposite of shrinkage, yes.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:21 PM on October 27, 2014 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: …as it goes from England to the Bahamas it grows in length about 3 1/2 inches.

That's what she sai.... (sorry)
posted by kurosawa's pal at 9:25 PM on October 27, 2014 [5 favorites]

Re the query about how the sister ship came out a couple of inches longer than the original... I have worked on big complicated machines like this, warships in fact, and as backseat pilot notes, the as built ship doesn't exactly match the "as built"drawings, much less the orginal drawings. Things get out of whack somewhere, one guy fixes it, then all the trades downstream have to fudge it to get whatever it is they're installing to fit (in my case, it was pipes for various things).

When it was time for the Navy to approve the work, the journeyman always had some explaining to do ("Well, if you look up in the overhead, the fresh air duct runs where the drawings call for our Halon, so we just hopped everything to port about 12 inches...").

"Okay, fine. Let's do the pressure test."

"It'll be lunch in 30 minutes and the test takes an hour and a half."

"Right. See you after lunch."

And that bit explains schedule overruns.
posted by notyou at 10:12 PM on October 27, 2014 [13 favorites]

Oasis passengers eat a metric ton of lobster during a typical seven-day cruise

....
posted by TrinsicWS at 11:30 PM on October 27, 2014

'Gourmandism' sounds like the mot juste.
posted by Segundus at 12:08 AM on October 28, 2014

I'd be worried about what and whether to tip if I didn't have to pay for dinner. Although I suppose my worries would soon be washed away, along with most of my cognitive capacity, by the all-you-can-drink flat fee deal.
posted by Segundus at 2:12 AM on October 28, 2014 [1 favorite]

You don't HAVE to gain weight on a cruise.

My parents were on the mentioned Royal Caribbean Norwalk virus-outbreak, or "Norovirus on the Seas," as they call it.

They each lost like 12 lbs each.

Am I the only one who feels like this article seems more like a Royal Caribbean publicity piece?

"Safe, Delicious, AND Clean!"
posted by kinetic at 2:49 AM on October 28, 2014 [3 favorites]

Not that I dislike broccoli, far from it, but I'm confused about the meaning of this statement:

“Broccoli’s a vital part of the operation,” he said. “It’s a center-of-the-plate item on every dish in the dining room.”
posted by polymodus at 3:13 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

Not that I dislike broccoli, far from it, but I'm confused about the meaning of this statement:

“Broccoli’s a vital part of the operation,” he said. “It’s a center-of-the-plate item on every dish in the dining room.”

I'm sensing a Buzzfeed listicle in the future!

The top 10 crazy cruise ship dishes that feature broccoli!

• Broccoli tartare
• Broccoli and foie gras terrine
• Broccoli panna cotta
• etc.

posted by jeremias at 3:40 AM on October 28, 2014 [4 favorites]

Broccoli panna cotta sounds truly disgusting, but I suppose it's only cauliflower cheese with an education.
posted by Segundus at 3:51 AM on October 28, 2014 [3 favorites]

I'd be worried about what and whether to tip if I didn't have to pay for dinner.

Nah, you wouldn't be. Because your cruise documentation would have at least one and possibly several page(s) entirely about how tipping works on that particular cruise line. It's something that all cruise lines are very, very clear about, and for the most part these days, it involves them throwing large undifferentiated amounts onto your bill at the end of the trip and handing that money out how they see fit.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:21 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

I like my hotels standing straight up on solid ground, not tipped over and floating.

I seem to be in a minority position on that.
posted by jefflowrey at 4:41 AM on October 28, 2014 [3 favorites]

Projectile Shit Vomiting For the Win, Previously

The Norovirus: A Study in Puked Perfection, "Each norovirus carries just nine protein-coding genes (you have about 20,000). Even with that skimpy genetic toolkit, noroviruses can break the locks on our cells, slip in, and hack our own DNA to make new noroviruses. The details of this invasion are sketchy, alas, because scientists haven’t figured out a good way to rear noroviruses in human cells in their labs. It’s not even clear exactly which type of cell they invade once they reach the gut. Regardless of the type, they clearly know how to exploit their hosts. Noroviruses come roaring out of the infected cells in vast numbers. And then they come roaring out of the body. Within a day of infection, noroviruses have rewired our digestive system so that stuff comes flying out from both ends."

Noroviruses: The Perfect Human Pathogens?
Noroviruses are perhaps the perfect human pathogens. These viruses possess essentially all of the attributes of an ideal infectious agent: highly contagious, rapidly and prolifically shed, constantly evolving, evoking limited immunity, and only moderately virulent, allowing most of those infected to fully recover, thereby maintaining a large susceptible pool of hosts. These characteristics have enabled noroviruses to become the leading cause of endemic diarrheal disease across all age groups, the leading cause of foodborne disease, and the cause of half of all gastroenteritis outbreaks worldwide. In the United States alone, noroviruses are responsible for an estimated 21 million cases of acute gastroenteritis annually, including >70 000 hospitalizations and nearly 800 deaths. In developing countries, where the greatest burden of diarrheal disease occurs, noroviruses have been estimated to cause up to 200 000 deaths each year in children < 5 years of age. Although recognition of this immense disease burden is relatively recent, it is unclear whether it has long been present and failed to be recognized because of lack of sensitive diagnostics or if, in fact, noroviruses represent a truly emergent public health issue. Regardless, attempts to address the overwhelming burden of norovirus disease first require an understanding of the complexity and efficiency with which these viruses spread.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:55 AM on October 28, 2014 [1 favorite]

This is probably a dumb question, but - how much are drinks on cruise ships?

My partner and I recently stayed at a traditional "resort" on the big island (it was a gift from a friend) and I was absolutely staggered at how much it cost to get a decent cocktail from the bar. By the second night we noticed incoming guests bringing their own bottles of liquor - it made sense! Even though the room was a gift, our bar/food tab was higher than what we typically budgeted for accommodations (we typically rent an apartment and cook two out three meals a day on our own.)

The gratis drinks were sort of these nasty, sugary Mai Tai things that reminded me of melted popsicles. And this was a top-shelf resort! I mean, I think. I'm sort of a poor person so maybe I don't know as much about resorts as I think I do.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 5:58 AM on October 28, 2014

Australians drink the most.

My mom went on one of those summer European tours several years back and of everything she saw and did I think she was most entertained by the Australians in her party. According to her at least three Australians had to have a bottle of wine on them at all times and wherever there were gathered four Australians there was bound to be a fifth.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:00 AM on October 28, 2014 [3 favorites]

The drinks are expensive unless you can drink at the crew bar. I was a contractor on cruise ships back in the late 90's and the crew bar was the place to go after work. It was way cheaper.
posted by cuscutis at 6:09 AM on October 28, 2014

If I ever drop twenty-five grand on one of these cruises, I won't be eating any broccoli at all.
posted by colie at 6:34 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

This is probably a dumb question, but - how much are drinks on cruise ships?

Expensive. Around $5 for a beer, $8 for a glass of wine, $10-12 for cocktails, and more if you want premium brands. If you go to cruising forums you'll see all kinds of tricks for sneaking on your own booze, along with people complaining about the cheapskates who sneak on their own booze.

In recent years cruise lines have started offering drink packages - last time I cruised I got a package that was about $50 per day for unlimited drinks. If you drink a lot the math works out.
posted by Daily Alice at 6:35 AM on October 28, 2014

Forget the broccoli, imagine paying 25k for 2 weeks of firey gouts of shit rocketing from your butt. Can you buy cruise poop insurance?
posted by poffin boffin at 6:38 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

The thing that has impressed me most about cruise dining is how well they can customize the experience in that kind of a mass production environment. One time I had restaurant seating near a large party of people who had some very particular food restrictions - like beyond vegan, there were also certain vegetables they didn't eat. At the first dinner, they were dismayed at the lack of choices on the menu. By the next morning, there was a separate station at the buffet that served food to fit their diet. And it was delicious!
posted by Daily Alice at 6:43 AM on October 28, 2014 [1 favorite]

Waiting for the first cruise to market itself as a "cruise & clense."
posted by octobersurprise at 6:46 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

David Foster Wallace's essay, Shipping Out: On the (nearly lethal) Comforts of a Luxury Cruise [PDF], well worth reading.
posted by Fizz at 6:49 AM on October 28, 2014 [4 favorites]

I'm justst amazed at the sheer size of the cruise ships-larger than an aircraft carrier. Given that aircraft carriers are described as cities that float I can just imagine the scale of operations here.

Now some cruise ship needs to declare itself an independent nation...
posted by happyroach at 6:49 AM on October 28, 2014

Not sure where people are getting $25,000 from, but that would get you a very fancy cruise (and/or a very long one.)
posted by Daily Alice at 7:03 AM on October 28, 2014

I've cruised recently on RCI twice -- both times on JoCoCruiseCrazy -- and haven't found the drinks particularly spendy. The bourbon I order at home in Houston (Blanton's) was $6 or $7 a drink on board, which is less than it is in restaurants. On-board bartenders are also more apt to pour heavy than their terrestrial counterparts, especially if you tip in cash, so factor this in.

There may be more sticker shock at the low end, but generally speaking the prices seemed to be a couple ticks lower than you'd see in a normal (as opposed to higher end) restaurant. Selection suffers, though.

That said, if you're a dedicated drinker, buying one of the packages is a good option. They futz around with the rules on these every years, it seems like, but no matter how they slice it it seems like my wife and I are basically on the cusp of it being a good idea.

I grew up hearing about how the food on cruises was supposedly excellent, but honest to God I have no idea how that idea took root -- unless it was just a 60s/70s reputation based on a world where good food wasn't easy to get anywhere. The dining room fare on RCI is mediocre, but you have to grade on a curve because they're serving thousands. It's like going to a banquet at a nice hotel every night. The upside of crusie food economics is that if you pick something you don't like, just get something else -- the food's all included, and you can have as much as you like.
posted by uberchet at 7:05 AM on October 28, 2014

I went on a cruise last year and I can confirm that the food was more than acceptable. In fact I spent the entire cruise feeling incredibly guilty for being so gluttinous. There should be some kind of treatment available for that.
posted by miyabo at 7:17 AM on October 28, 2014

I just went on a Holland America cruise and all their mixed drinks (mojitos and the like) were $6.95 plus automatic 15% service charge. So not bad at all. We didn't really order wine but I think the prices were on par with a fancier restaurant on land.

If you want to drink wine every night and have liquor in your room, you will spend a lot on a cruise. If you buy a couple mixed drinks here and there, and carry on a bottle of wine to have in your room for a special night (our cruise let you take on one bottle/person), it can be very economical.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:17 AM on October 28, 2014

Reading this article felt like reading a script for a prequel to WALL-E, brought to you by the good people of Royal Caribbian.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 7:20 AM on October 28, 2014 [5 favorites]

I'm sensing a Buzzfeed listicle in the future!

The top 10 crazy cruise ship dishes that feature broccoli!

This is the one wierd trick George HW Bush HATES!
posted by dr_dank at 7:28 AM on October 28, 2014

I'll be the guy in tiny windowless cabin 400807 drinking wine alone.
posted by colie at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2014 [1 favorite]

“Broccoli’s a vital part of the operation,” he said. “It’s a center-of-the-plate item on every dish in the dining room.”

Kinda like with every Bond film.
posted by I-baLL at 7:45 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

Looking at a sample menu there does seem to be a lot of places where broccoli could go, although I am too puzzled at how it'd be a centerpiece.

I see in that menu:
- beef and barley soup (root vegetable garnish)
- cream of garden fresh broccoli
- pot pie (as a filler)
in mains, all the "steamed vegetables" would have it.

Which does cover majority of the mains.
posted by olya at 7:55 AM on October 28, 2014

I am the only one wondering why the author didn't take his foodie wife with him on the cruise?
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:11 AM on October 28, 2014

It's like going to a banquet at a nice hotel every night.


The fruit and vegetables are top notch, (labor) the proteins are good the first few iterations, but they're not really built for either the attention or preparation that'll keep you engaged for a month.
posted by mikelieman at 8:18 AM on October 28, 2014

Thus, cherry vanilla root beer. *Heave*.

Actually, vanilla root beer is an excellent bourbon back, if you're the kind of person to sneak a bottle of bourbon into movie theaters.
posted by Juliet Banana at 8:20 AM on October 28, 2014 [1 favorite]

This is probably a dumb question, but - how much are drinks on cruise ships?

In general, my recollection of RCL is that you're paying about $5 for beer and $8 for cocktails and mixed drinks. But, like everything on a cruise ship, the pricing isn't necessarily straightforward and I have a strong suspicion that they change it based on passenger demographics.

Sometimes, you can buy a bucket of beers and get away with 5 or 6 for $20. But only some bars will do this, you have to sorta hunt around for it (they're typically near the pool during the day). There's always a "drink of the day" — nearly always sweet and fruity — that will be discounted, maybe to $6.95 or so.

In the past you could also get bottle service via room service to your cabin. A fifth of JD would be around $50, but if you think of in terms of per-drink prices that's far less expensive than a bar. I think most cruise lines have moved away from this, though, in favor of per-day drinks plans.

So if you really want to hit the sauce you definitely just go for the $60/day (or whatever; they have rail-liquor plans that are cheaper) plan, although I don't know if pushing yourself to break even on one of those is really healthy. Given that iced tea, water, and (American) lemonade are free, the only thing the plan gets you are soda and alcohol, so you'd need to drink 6+ of them a day.

I am the only one wondering why the author didn't take his foodie wife with him on the cruise?

I don't think the author ever said that he didn't. He mentions at one point giving the cookbook he got as part of the "Chef's Table" tasting restaurant experience to his wife, but nothing else. It'd be odd to go alone since all cruise-ship cabins hold two people, and the cost for one person in a cabin by themselves isn't that much lower than two people (the marginal cost is basically the food, and less than what you'd think it is). Maybe she didn't get to go to the Chef's Table and tour the employee areas, since she wasn't the one writing the uncritical fluff piece in the New Yorker.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:23 AM on October 28, 2014

Expensive. Around $5 for a beer, $8 for a glass of wine, $10-12 for cocktails, and more if you want premium brands.

So the same as in Manhattan, then.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:27 AM on October 28, 2014 [2 favorites]

Last time a family cruise was threatened upon us all I looked up the beer selection on the boat and it looked like the offerings in a small town bar in the South. Have they advanced yet beyond serving nothing but yellow fizzy piss-water?
posted by Ber at 9:27 AM on October 28, 2014

This is probably a dumb question, but - how much are drinks on cruise ships?
On my last cruise, I think a glass of wine was anywhere from $8-25 (you can get house, all the way up to super-fancy [which isn't all that fancy on land, but is upcharged on the ship]), basic mixed drink 6-8.50, fiddly mixed drink 9-13. I don't drink beer, so I don't remember the prices on those.

If you're a bit more careful or more experienced, there's ways to bump the cost down - Drink of the Day is usually a dollar or two cheaper than other similar cocktails; free booze can be had for limited periods during art auctions (don't buy anything. seriously, don't. just drink the champagne.) and the Captain's Gala, as well as "welcome back" parties for various rewards-tier groups. If you're a steady-to-heavy drinker, the drinks packages will often pay off (I got about twice my money's worth one time I kept track, drinking a few espressos every morning, a bottle of water or two in the afternoon, and five or six fancy cocktails over the course of the evening). If you've spent way too much time on cruises for your own good (hi!) and hit one of the highest rewards tiers, there's usually a nightly period of free drinks or a per-diem of free drinks, too (Royal Caribbean Diamond members get three hours of free drinking every night in a designated lounge, Diamond-Plus and Pinnacle members get 24/7 free honor bar access).

Not that I dislike broccoli, far from it, but I'm confused about the meaning of this statement
I suspect they mean they use broccoli as a garnish with nearly everything - sort of like when you order take-out chinese food and there's a line of steamed broccoli no one ever eats separating the meat from the rice in the container? A plated cruise meal these days will usually be 1/3 to 1/2 "entree" and 1/2 "plated vegetables of some kind", with "some other filler" (i.e. broccoli, quinoa, a sauce ramekin, whatever) making up the space.
posted by Hold your seahorses at 10:38 AM on October 28, 2014

sort of like when you order take-out chinese food and there's a line of steamed broccoli no one ever eats

I eat the broccoli :(
posted by mikelieman at 11:07 AM on October 28, 2014 [10 favorites]

Unexpectedly, Mark Bittman likes the food on cruise ships.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:00 PM on October 30, 2014