All I can say is euhhh...
November 19, 2014 11:04 AM Subscribe
But in addition, and to make the dub look as realistic as possible, she must also identify every instance of a character uttering a word with an m, p, or b in it in English, and find a word in French with the same consonant. And the replacement word has to fit into that sentence in exactly the same spot as where the American actor’s mouth makes the m, p, or b face.
And you think your job is tedious! What It Takes to Be the French Jennifer Lawrence.
If there were only an easier way to watch films in a language you don't understand...
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:13 AM on November 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:13 AM on November 19, 2014 [11 favorites]
Having lived in Quebec for five years, I realized that the only sous-titres you were likely to find happened to smaller films (Beasts of the Southern Wild is an example I could readily point to that I saw). Nearly all of the films from major studios released in Quebec have to have dubbed versions. I found this really fascinating paper online that explains why sometimes you get Quebec French dubs and why sometimes you get French French dubs. Also, the paper explains why they must exist.
posted by Kitteh at 11:23 AM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:23 AM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
Living in a francophone area, all the native speakers I've met prefer to watch films with subtitles. The dubs irritate them, I think because of a combination of what Smileychewtrain says and that they watch newer films with lower quality dubs. This is an amusing contrast to my English speaking friends who can't be bothered with subtitles.
Personally, I prefer French dubs with English subs on English language programs and films if I'm working on comprehension. (Plus obviously french originals and English subs.) The written french rarely corresponds well with what's being spoken. I can attest that the french dubs are great though, often better to my European ears than the corresponding American actor. I think this may be because the voices are a little deeper.
posted by Braeburn at 11:40 AM on November 19, 2014
Personally, I prefer French dubs with English subs on English language programs and films if I'm working on comprehension. (Plus obviously french originals and English subs.) The written french rarely corresponds well with what's being spoken. I can attest that the french dubs are great though, often better to my European ears than the corresponding American actor. I think this may be because the voices are a little deeper.
posted by Braeburn at 11:40 AM on November 19, 2014
My favourite example of dubbing involving the French is actually the English-dubbed version of Un homme et une femme, in which -- and I think I'm getting this right -- Anouk Aimée did her own dubbing, as well as that of her character's daughter. The barely out-of-infancy daughter ends up sounding like a breathless, sex-crazed ingenue. It is so wildly bizarre and disorienting. Especially the line "No, mama, I want a cake." The only movie I enjoy more dubbed into English!
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 11:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 11:44 AM on November 19, 2014 [6 favorites]
I also prefer subtitles for films not in English, but when English is your first language it's a lot easier to be haughty about these sorts of things. The vast majority of films I watch are American and in English. Would I enjoy as many films, especially the mindless ones, if I had to read them all? I also expect that if this is what you grew up with then you're much more likely to appreciate it, especially if it's done to the quality described in the article (which is fascinating by the way, thanks Mrs. Rattery).
Glad you brought up Québec, Kitteh. It's hard to mention French dubs and not talk about the famous French Canadian dub of Slap Shot. The dubbed version is a cult classic mostly (entirely?) due to the colloquial profanity laced throughout.
Finally, I so want that Spider-Man shirt to read "This is what a feminist looks like!"
posted by ODiV at 11:49 AM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
Glad you brought up Québec, Kitteh. It's hard to mention French dubs and not talk about the famous French Canadian dub of Slap Shot. The dubbed version is a cult classic mostly (entirely?) due to the colloquial profanity laced throughout.
Finally, I so want that Spider-Man shirt to read "This is what a feminist looks like!"
posted by ODiV at 11:49 AM on November 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm not a sound designer, but I agree with SmileyChewtrain on dubbing: it sucks compared to subtitles. I might be an American, but I can handle hearing languages other than English when watching movies.
posted by starbreaker at 11:51 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by starbreaker at 11:51 AM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I still occasionally listen to the B:tVS "Once More with Feeling" soundtrack in French and wonder what it must have been like to be the French Amber Benson. They re-recorded all the songs for that show using, I think, the same voice actors who'd been dubbing it, and I can't help but imagine the woman who played Tara hearing the original for the first time and thinking, "Yeah, that's ... seriously not going to happen."
(She did OK though! Just with a different style to it.)
posted by Monsieur Caution at 11:52 AM on November 19, 2014
(She did OK though! Just with a different style to it.)
posted by Monsieur Caution at 11:52 AM on November 19, 2014
Would I enjoy as many films, especially the mindless ones, if I had to read them all?
That's a reasonable point - and many larger budgeted / commercial films are the ones that take at least some extra care (not always, and probably not often) in doing it well.
The big problem in today's landscape is that in the indie world, where you generally find more intellectual fare, distributors typically saddle the cost of the "M&E" on the filmmakers- the "music and effects" track version of the film, which contains a full sound mix with no dialogue, ready for dubbing. What this means is the creation of an additional round of foley, effects, and ambience editing to cover what would be lost without the production audio. Which is often quite a bit of work and material, and has little to nothing to do with the actual narratively focused creative work that goes into crafting the "proper" version of the film. Because of the added expense to the filmmakers, who are just trying to make "their" version, the M&E generally is cheap, rushed and only barely passable. And that's the sound mix that the dubbing lays on top of. So, in a film (say, a low budget horror film) where soundscape is a huge part of the narrative... much of the intended experience is lost.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 11:55 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
That's a reasonable point - and many larger budgeted / commercial films are the ones that take at least some extra care (not always, and probably not often) in doing it well.
The big problem in today's landscape is that in the indie world, where you generally find more intellectual fare, distributors typically saddle the cost of the "M&E" on the filmmakers- the "music and effects" track version of the film, which contains a full sound mix with no dialogue, ready for dubbing. What this means is the creation of an additional round of foley, effects, and ambience editing to cover what would be lost without the production audio. Which is often quite a bit of work and material, and has little to nothing to do with the actual narratively focused creative work that goes into crafting the "proper" version of the film. Because of the added expense to the filmmakers, who are just trying to make "their" version, the M&E generally is cheap, rushed and only barely passable. And that's the sound mix that the dubbing lays on top of. So, in a film (say, a low budget horror film) where soundscape is a huge part of the narrative... much of the intended experience is lost.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 11:55 AM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
I should say, the "M&E" is almost always a REQUIRED deliverable to sell your film. No matter how small budget. I've worked on films that are under 50k TOTAL and are still required to have an M&E, which can cost a couple grand at minimum to do it properly. And for most of theses small films... the dubbed version is never created and the money / effort spent making the M&E is wasted / could have gone towards things to make the "proper" version better (and the if a distributor wants to dub it later one - hey, great, pony up the money!).
/strong feelings
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 12:00 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
/strong feelings
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 12:00 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
Sadly, dubbing will always be with us, because even though complete and total illiteracy may be less of an issue, there are enough people who are not functionally literate enough to read with the speed necessary to get through the subtitles before they disappear off the screen to make way for the next line of dialogue.
posted by jonp72 at 12:06 PM on November 19, 2014
posted by jonp72 at 12:06 PM on November 19, 2014
If there’s content in the film about a topic she doesn’t know much about — “For Kill the Messenger, I have to do a lot of things about drugs, and I don’t use crack, at all, so I have to learn how to make crack”—she does extensive research to get a handle on the ideas and lingo she has to convert. She has to capture the nuance of words like lingo. She has to capture the spirit of English idioms that would make no sense in French (not that they make sense in English; “going cold turkey”?). British English is even worse, because the comedy so often relies on wordplay, which is practically impossible to translate.Hearing translators talk about the difficulty of moving between languages always fascinates me. I took a class on translation in college and in someways it was more challenging than any other language class, because every assumption about the text and about English and culture had to be examined. I have my own store of Amazing Woes of Dubbed Films (Italian version) and I also prefer subtitles, but I understand why subtitles are not always an option and why some people prefer dubbed versions-- I don't think you have to label everyone in the latter category as illiterate.
posted by jetlagaddict at 12:40 PM on November 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
why some people prefer dubbed versions-- I don't think you have to label everyone in the latter category as illiterate.
To clarify, I wouldn't label all people who prefer dubbing as "illiterate." Some people are perfectly intelligent, but view the reading required to get through subtitles as anathema to being entertained. On the other hand, I still think not being able to read except at ridiculously slow speeds is a major factor for a lot of people, even if it isn't technically "illiteracy."
posted by jonp72 at 12:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
To clarify, I wouldn't label all people who prefer dubbing as "illiterate." Some people are perfectly intelligent, but view the reading required to get through subtitles as anathema to being entertained. On the other hand, I still think not being able to read except at ridiculously slow speeds is a major factor for a lot of people, even if it isn't technically "illiteracy."
posted by jonp72 at 12:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I also prefer subtitles for films not in English, but when English is your first language it's a lot easier to be haughty about these sorts of things. The vast majority of films I watch are American and in English.
I cannot agree more. Again, living in the sole Francophone culture in North America for five years (and not even in bilingual Montreal either), Quebecois folks will see the original English, sure, they still have to have a dubbed version by law. And judging from attendance, the dubbed seems to win out every time. Sure, it may rustle sensibilities of those who work in film, but this is also a matter of recognition and respect for their culture. I had to go to Montreal to see a lot of films in my native tongue (my French will never be good enough to follow the dubbed dialogue, especially given how slang-heavy QC French can be) and often complained about why it was difficult to get decent English films in their original language, but remembered that I can go pretty much anywhere in the ROC and the US and not worry about this because I am the majority. For them, it's matter of wanting to see a film dubbed however terribly in the language they speak and love.
posted by Kitteh at 1:14 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
I cannot agree more. Again, living in the sole Francophone culture in North America for five years (and not even in bilingual Montreal either), Quebecois folks will see the original English, sure, they still have to have a dubbed version by law. And judging from attendance, the dubbed seems to win out every time. Sure, it may rustle sensibilities of those who work in film, but this is also a matter of recognition and respect for their culture. I had to go to Montreal to see a lot of films in my native tongue (my French will never be good enough to follow the dubbed dialogue, especially given how slang-heavy QC French can be) and often complained about why it was difficult to get decent English films in their original language, but remembered that I can go pretty much anywhere in the ROC and the US and not worry about this because I am the majority. For them, it's matter of wanting to see a film dubbed however terribly in the language they speak and love.
posted by Kitteh at 1:14 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Kitteh: "I cannot agree more. Again, living in the sole Francophone culture in North America for five years (and not even in bilingual Montreal either), Quebecois folks will see the original English, sure, they still have to have a dubbed version by law. And judging from attendance, the dubbed seems to win out every time."
Not to go all libtard on this, but if you need a law to make this happen, the overwhelming preference for the dubbed version might not be as overwhelming as you think.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:28 PM on November 19, 2014
Not to go all libtard on this, but if you need a law to make this happen, the overwhelming preference for the dubbed version might not be as overwhelming as you think.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:28 PM on November 19, 2014
They have to have laws about languages because they are a tiny French island in a sea of English and feel very protective of their status. The people who make these laws are people who grew up being told to "speak white" when the English were the majority in the province.
posted by Kitteh at 2:57 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 2:57 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Some people are perfectly intelligent, but view the reading required to get through subtitles as anathema to being entertained
Or, like me, often enjoy watching/rewatching while engaging in another activity that requires looking away from the screen, like sewing or tetris.
(Though if I'm actually giving it all of my attention, I prefer subtitles, I do watch more dubs lately.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:44 PM on November 19, 2014
Or, like me, often enjoy watching/rewatching while engaging in another activity that requires looking away from the screen, like sewing or tetris.
(Though if I'm actually giving it all of my attention, I prefer subtitles, I do watch more dubs lately.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:44 PM on November 19, 2014
As a french kid it was a big trauma when they changed Harrison Ford's voice between Raiders of the lost ark and Temple of Doom.
I'll also admit that even though now I only watch movies and TV in english, I will always prefer french Simpsons to the english ones. French South Park sucks though.
posted by SageLeVoid at 5:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'll also admit that even though now I only watch movies and TV in english, I will always prefer french Simpsons to the english ones. French South Park sucks though.
posted by SageLeVoid at 5:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Think of the children! If it wasn't for dubbing, I would have missed out on all the American movies of the 80s. No child should have to read through Ghostbusters, not even little French-Canadians.
posted by Freyja at 7:36 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Freyja at 7:36 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Bit of trivia: the Hungarians dubbing the Flintstones must have felt it needed some serious jazzing up. Or maybe they were just bored. In either case, the end result: the Hungarian version of the series is set entirely in verse.
posted by tigrrrlily at 7:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 7:50 PM on November 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
By the way, I've never seen any sign of subtitled foreign movies in any way damaging the local language or culture when compared to dubbed foreign movies. I'm not even sure what the mechanism for that would be.
What I have noticed, though, is that people who live in countries that generally dub movies (France, Spain) generally are much less proficient in English as a second language than people who live in countries that generally subtitle (Mexico, Norway).
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:41 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
What I have noticed, though, is that people who live in countries that generally dub movies (France, Spain) generally are much less proficient in English as a second language than people who live in countries that generally subtitle (Mexico, Norway).
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:41 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
> Bit of trivia: the Hungarians dubbing the Flintstones must have felt it needed some serious jazzing up. Or maybe they were just bored. In either case, the end result: the Hungarian version of the series is set entirely in verse.
Not just any verse, very punny verse filled with mosaic rhymes, that as far as I remember, is completely unrelated to the original plot.
posted by Gazs at 11:15 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Not just any verse, very punny verse filled with mosaic rhymes, that as far as I remember, is completely unrelated to the original plot.
posted by Gazs at 11:15 PM on November 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
By the way, I've never seen any sign of subtitled foreign movies in any way damaging the local language or culture when compared to dubbed foreign movies. I'm not even sure what the mechanism for that would be.
What I have noticed, though, is that people who live in countries that generally dub movies (France, Spain) generally are much less proficient in English as a second language than people who live in countries that generally subtitle (Mexico, Norway).
I'm pretty sure you don't mean it this way, but this is coming off as very "the English language is important enough that it trounces the people who don't want to learn it or watch movies in it originally."
As for damaging the local culture, it's more about the protection of what you have than damage. Again, spend some time immersed in Francophone culture in Quebec to see why they get so het up about their language. It's very educational!
posted by Kitteh at 6:24 AM on November 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
What I have noticed, though, is that people who live in countries that generally dub movies (France, Spain) generally are much less proficient in English as a second language than people who live in countries that generally subtitle (Mexico, Norway).
I'm pretty sure you don't mean it this way, but this is coming off as very "the English language is important enough that it trounces the people who don't want to learn it or watch movies in it originally."
As for damaging the local culture, it's more about the protection of what you have than damage. Again, spend some time immersed in Francophone culture in Quebec to see why they get so het up about their language. It's very educational!
posted by Kitteh at 6:24 AM on November 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Dub work is also vital to local actors, those paychecks enable them to continue to participate in original local cultural projects that may not be as lucrative. So not damaging, but enriching on more than one level.
I've been lucky enough to be involved in the French-Canadian dubbing process for a few Disney movies, most recently Big Hero 6, and the thought that goes into every step is astounding. The script and songs are translated and adapted to take into account the particularities of every language, jokes are rewritten, references are changed, voices are carefully selected... every aspect is considered so that children around the world can experience those movie in a way that will resonate with them emotionally, same as little anglophone kids.
If that slows down their ESL acquisition progress a bit, I'm quite ok with that trade-off.
posted by Freyja at 7:52 AM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I've been lucky enough to be involved in the French-Canadian dubbing process for a few Disney movies, most recently Big Hero 6, and the thought that goes into every step is astounding. The script and songs are translated and adapted to take into account the particularities of every language, jokes are rewritten, references are changed, voices are carefully selected... every aspect is considered so that children around the world can experience those movie in a way that will resonate with them emotionally, same as little anglophone kids.
If that slows down their ESL acquisition progress a bit, I'm quite ok with that trade-off.
posted by Freyja at 7:52 AM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure you don't mean it this way, but this is coming off as very "the English language is important enough that it trounces the people who don't want to learn it or watch movies in it originally."
IDK. I realise the situation in Quebec is particularly fraught, and I support the Québécois in all their québé-quests, but a) in other places where dubbing wins out, some people's preference for dubbed films is merely trouncing that of other people who'd rather have subtitles and b) it's not like people in dubbing countries don't already treat learning English as important. I've been an English assistant in French primary & secondary schools and, while it was GREAT for me, I would often think, oh what a waste of time and money. The resources the state lavishes on the teaching of English -- from training their own teachers to springing for the antidepressant cocktails of random 21-year-olds from halfway around the world -- that could be put to some other use if all those kids were just watching Dexter in its original language. So the French get the worst of both worlds in my opinion. The widespread use of dubbing makes it even easier for foreign media to conquer their local markets, while no one is gaining any of the actual proficiency in English so much time and money is getting spent on in the other domains of their lives. Very anecdotally, I used to poll my high-schoolers about dubbing vs subtitles and it seemed like it was only about 2:1 in favour of dubbing -- it was by no means a universal preference.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:55 AM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
IDK. I realise the situation in Quebec is particularly fraught, and I support the Québécois in all their québé-quests, but a) in other places where dubbing wins out, some people's preference for dubbed films is merely trouncing that of other people who'd rather have subtitles and b) it's not like people in dubbing countries don't already treat learning English as important. I've been an English assistant in French primary & secondary schools and, while it was GREAT for me, I would often think, oh what a waste of time and money. The resources the state lavishes on the teaching of English -- from training their own teachers to springing for the antidepressant cocktails of random 21-year-olds from halfway around the world -- that could be put to some other use if all those kids were just watching Dexter in its original language. So the French get the worst of both worlds in my opinion. The widespread use of dubbing makes it even easier for foreign media to conquer their local markets, while no one is gaining any of the actual proficiency in English so much time and money is getting spent on in the other domains of their lives. Very anecdotally, I used to poll my high-schoolers about dubbing vs subtitles and it seemed like it was only about 2:1 in favour of dubbing -- it was by no means a universal preference.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:55 AM on November 20, 2014 [2 favorites]
Thank you for posting! I actually do think about these things, I watch a lot of French & foreign Netflix.
But my biggest question is.... do they always pick the same voice actor for the American actor? Like, if you're Jennifer Lawrence, are you J-Law for life? Are you stuck being Tom Cruise throughout your entire career, for better or for worse? And how do you get that assignment? Do you have to audition for it? Can you ever be someone else?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:01 PM on November 20, 2014
But my biggest question is.... do they always pick the same voice actor for the American actor? Like, if you're Jennifer Lawrence, are you J-Law for life? Are you stuck being Tom Cruise throughout your entire career, for better or for worse? And how do you get that assignment? Do you have to audition for it? Can you ever be someone else?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:01 PM on November 20, 2014
whoops, I should have finished the article before posting. It always seemed to me that the voices sound different between movies, but I don't watch as much dubbing as the French audiences.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:18 PM on November 20, 2014
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:18 PM on November 20, 2014
Kitteh: "I'm pretty sure you don't mean it this way, but this is coming off as very "the English language is important enough that it trounces the people who don't want to learn it or watch movies in it originally.""
I'm not saying they should just watch movies in English, I'm saying they should watch it in English with French subtitles. There are 8 million people in Quebec, and they speak a language fairly closely related to the one spoken by the 60 or so million people in France, plus the populations of other francophone countries. There are 5 million people in Norway. Norway (and Sweden, and Denmark, the Netherlands, Latvia) subtitles, Quebec (and France, Spain, Italy, and Germany) dubs. This is not about being in the minority, this is about stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt.
Plus, the correlation to ESL ability is very clear, and the difference is huge. All of the European countries that subtitle have generally much better English speakers than the countries that dub, with no exceptions at all that I can see.
Kitteh: "As for damaging the local culture, it's more about the protection of what you have than damage."
What do they want to "protect" it from, if not damage, or some sort of negative effect?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:29 PM on November 20, 2014
I'm not saying they should just watch movies in English, I'm saying they should watch it in English with French subtitles. There are 8 million people in Quebec, and they speak a language fairly closely related to the one spoken by the 60 or so million people in France, plus the populations of other francophone countries. There are 5 million people in Norway. Norway (and Sweden, and Denmark, the Netherlands, Latvia) subtitles, Quebec (and France, Spain, Italy, and Germany) dubs. This is not about being in the minority, this is about stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt.
Plus, the correlation to ESL ability is very clear, and the difference is huge. All of the European countries that subtitle have generally much better English speakers than the countries that dub, with no exceptions at all that I can see.
Kitteh: "As for damaging the local culture, it's more about the protection of what you have than damage."
What do they want to "protect" it from, if not damage, or some sort of negative effect?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:29 PM on November 20, 2014
By the way, childrens' movies are different. You don't expect kids to be able to read subtitles fast enough to follow the action, so all your arguments about how much work goes into dubbing Disney movies is kind of irrelevant. Childrens' movies are dubbed in basically all countries, and the same amount of care and work go into that in Norway as in Quebec.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:31 PM on November 20, 2014
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:31 PM on November 20, 2014
This is not about being in the minority, this is about stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt. [...] What do they want to "protect" it from, if not damage, or some sort of negative effect?
Dang man, does it have to be about making a giant political point? Maybe people just want to experience movies in the language they understand best, is that ok? Or should that level of comfort be sacrificed to the altar of ESL?
As an anglophone, or someone who has sufficient proficiency in the language to fully absorb the material, it's fine and good to express a preference for the purity of the original over the corruption of dubs. It helps that the great majority of mainstream content is made in your language of preference, of course. Easy to be a snob about the odd foreign movie or anime that comes your way.
But there are people (like my mother) who don't prioritize ESL acquisition in their life choices but who might still want to take part in the big shiny Hollywood machine that came to replace huge chunks of the local culture in many parts of the world. That you feel those people should have to sit through and read every 3-hour long Hobbit movie or dumb action flick or Adam Sandler comedy that comes along is, because it's a "purer" experience and it will help them English better? ...I'm trying real hard not to use words like "cultural imperialism" here.
posted by Freyja at 5:07 AM on November 21, 2014
Dang man, does it have to be about making a giant political point? Maybe people just want to experience movies in the language they understand best, is that ok? Or should that level of comfort be sacrificed to the altar of ESL?
As an anglophone, or someone who has sufficient proficiency in the language to fully absorb the material, it's fine and good to express a preference for the purity of the original over the corruption of dubs. It helps that the great majority of mainstream content is made in your language of preference, of course. Easy to be a snob about the odd foreign movie or anime that comes your way.
But there are people (like my mother) who don't prioritize ESL acquisition in their life choices but who might still want to take part in the big shiny Hollywood machine that came to replace huge chunks of the local culture in many parts of the world. That you feel those people should have to sit through and read every 3-hour long Hobbit movie or dumb action flick or Adam Sandler comedy that comes along is, because it's a "purer" experience and it will help them English better? ...I'm trying real hard not to use words like "cultural imperialism" here.
posted by Freyja at 5:07 AM on November 21, 2014
Freyja: "It helps that the great majority of mainstream content is made in your language of preference, of course. Easy to be a snob about the odd foreign movie or anime that comes your way. "
I'm Norwegian and live in Mexico. I practically never watch movies in my native language, it's all English movies subtitled to Spanish, or Spanish-language movies. But thanks for assuming.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:37 PM on November 21, 2014
I'm Norwegian and live in Mexico. I practically never watch movies in my native language, it's all English movies subtitled to Spanish, or Spanish-language movies. But thanks for assuming.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:37 PM on November 21, 2014
(Wouldn't it be just as likely that subtitles are more popular than dubbing in certain regions because English is more widely spoken/understood there? I can see how they could be mutually reinforcing -- original-language screenings and ESL facility -- but I'm not sure how you could demonstrate that the original-language screenings are the cause.)
posted by nobody at 4:38 AM on November 22, 2014
posted by nobody at 4:38 AM on November 22, 2014
(Oh, this conversation has also reminded me that on literally none of the movies I've edited have I or the director been asked to screen and/or give feedback on the M&E mix. And as far as I know the post supervisors and producers haven't either. My assumption has been that foreign sales of these mid-budget indies have all been subtitled -- I've been shown translation scripts but never dubbing scripts -- so maybe it's always been a moot point, but I'm not entirely sure; I'd never given it much thought. I hope all those additional foleys aren't too awful!)
posted by nobody at 4:54 AM on November 22, 2014
posted by nobody at 4:54 AM on November 22, 2014
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posted by SmileyChewtrain at 11:12 AM on November 19, 2014 [5 favorites]