There's a tear in my beer because of bad legislation in Ontario, dear

December 9, 2014 10:15 AM

A 2000 report leaked to the Toronto Star details how the Harris government struck a sweetheart deal to ensure major brewers a stranglehold on Ontario beer retail. Long suspected but never before proven, the report details how the LCBO (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) was forced to submit to a subsidiary role in beer retail in the province; the then-LCBO head has confirmed that Harris forced the deal onto the province. Martin Cohn reports in the Toronto Star.
posted by Shepherd (57 comments total)

I KNEW IT
posted by Kitteh at 10:19 AM on December 9, 2014

Now the rest of the province knows how Toronto feels about Mike Harris.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:23 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

The beer selection in Ontario is my largest complaint about living here. This does not come as a surprise at all (and probably won't to most people reading the story).

In an ideal world the Beer Store monopoly will be destroyed and Ontario will get good beer selections at reasonable prices (hey, a man can dream).
posted by el io at 10:23 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

Christy Clark's government here in BC is also intent on wrecking what was already an okay system:

Cost of wine under new B.C. liquor laws could skyrocket
posted by Nevin at 10:25 AM on December 9, 2014

The only - and I do mean THE ONLY - thing I like about the Beer Store is the fact that *everyone* has to get in the same damn line to buy their beer. The lineups in the one closest to my house are a perfect economic microcosm of Toronto.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:26 AM on December 9, 2014 [3 favorites]

When we moved here from Quebec--aside from the indignity of having to go to the Beer Store, which smells and has terrible selections--not only could you not pick up a sixer of something decent at a dep at a reasonable price, I am now sad that I have become inured to dropping $13 bucks for a six-pack. THIRTEEN DOLLARS.

(Sorry, sorry, that is my American "that is a 12 pack at some places back home!" stripes showing.)
posted by Kitteh at 10:27 AM on December 9, 2014 [3 favorites]

Does it really matter ? Their beer sucks
posted by k5.user at 10:27 AM on December 9, 2014

Black and white. The LCBO is a reasonable example of a state owned resource. The Beer syndicate is what happens when you let large foreign private ownership have a monopoly. Fuck the beer guys.
posted by clvrmnky at 10:33 AM on December 9, 2014 [5 favorites]

Oh man, having lived in Quebec, Ontario, Alberta, and BC - Ontario and BC have by fare the worst liquor laws. Alberta's is apparently succumbing to the monopsony problem, but at least you have a choice of where to go on price and selection.

The Beer Store is an embarrassment, and I still can't believe that Harris didn't pull a Ralph Klein and open it up.
posted by sauril at 10:34 AM on December 9, 2014

Before "The Beer Store" re-branding, at least it had an honest name - the Brewer's Retail outlet.
posted by bonobothegreat at 10:36 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

The only thing I use beer for is conditioning my hair, but even then, they are not getting rich off me...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 10:40 AM on December 9, 2014

Just curious why this news is apparently being broken via a columnist rather than in a straight news story?
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 10:43 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

The LCBO is a reasonable example of a state owned resource.

Um, booze is not like oil or forests or anything. Unless Canada has wells filled with aged rum, I'd call it a government monopoly, not a state owned resource.

The only - and I do mean THE ONLY - thing I like about the Beer Store is the fact that *everyone* has to get in the same damn line to buy their beer.

Um, states/provinces that don't have a Beer store have ordinary lines that everyone has to wait in. It's not like the airport where the rich and superrich have different counters and wait-free areas.
posted by el io at 10:43 AM on December 9, 2014

Um, booze is not like oil or forests or anything. Unless Canada has wells filled with aged rum, I'd call it a government monopoly, not a state owned resource.

The store itself is the resource, and provides something in the neighbourhood of $1bn in profit to the government every year. I bitch and whine about our prices the same as everyone else, but then I go to the doctor that I don't have to pay for and figure it all balances.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:45 AM on December 9, 2014 [8 favorites]

The Beer Store also has these mental ads in which they predict A Dire Landscape of Underage Drunks if a dep is allowed to sell beer. It's superb and insane fearmongering at its best. (Also, they have those pamphlets in their stores where they tell you, John Q. Taxpayer, that Quebec's beer prices are not really cheap as you think they are. It's like Chick Tracts for drinkers.)
posted by Kitteh at 10:46 AM on December 9, 2014 [11 favorites]

Yeah, fuck The Beer Store. Right in its ear. It's a bullshit monopoly in the hands of private industry.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:48 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

Also, when every corner store sells beer, you rarely have to wait in line to get it. Or you get it at the grocery store and it's the same line as for food.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 10:48 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

Just curious why this news is apparently being broken via a columnist rather than in a straight news story?
Just guessing that he, not another reporter, got the document in question first.
posted by milnews.ca at 10:49 AM on December 9, 2014

Really if you look at the pic in the Star article, it shows you the Top Ten beers sold at Beer Stores and not a one of them are surprise in terms of who's really got a vested interest in the system remaining the way it is.

Honestly, I don't imagine that the Beer Store will go away anytime soon, despite all the wishin' and hopin' and thinkin'.
posted by Kitteh at 10:51 AM on December 9, 2014

Kitteh I love those. I have a couple of LCBO/Beer Store stories I love to tell.

My parents moved from Montreal to rural land near Ottawa to retire and my mom - the most follow-the-rules person I know, still makes trips back to visit friends and stock up on wine and beer. This is, of course, illegal.

And when I lived in Ontario in the late 80's/ early 90's, there were a grand total of 2 beer stores in a town of 100k, about 20k of which were students. The line ups on Saturday afternoons on long weekends were a sight to behold, since the store was closed from 5pm Saturday until noon Tuesday. I remember showing up a 4, and barely squeezing through the door as dozens of people were cut off because the store was closing. This was also the time of 12:30 last call. A far cry from what I was used to in Montreal.
posted by sauril at 10:59 AM on December 9, 2014

The last time I went to a Beer Store you had to go to a clerk tell him what you wanted and they went and got it. Do they still do that? It was really weird. The only time I have to do that at home is if I'm getting my beer at the drive-thru.
posted by papercrane at 11:00 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

I can't drink beer, I wish I could but driving by the beer store and seeing that stupid new logo...

Here for reference

1) it looks like a 1st year design student made it
2) The logo with a B with head on it is stupid. We are Canadian HEAD IS WASTE OF BEER we all side pour to make sure we get that extra .00001ml that would otherwise be wasted clinging as foam.
3) The old logo That says Ontario beer
posted by mrgroweler at 11:02 AM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

feckless fecal fear mongering: Other places just tax the booze, the state still gets it's profit... There is no reason why they need to have a state-run store for the place (places including Sweden/Finland, etc).
posted by el io at 11:03 AM on December 9, 2014

Man, am I alone in kind of loving how gritty the Beer Store is? Like, I love the mishmash of people in line, I love the case-scooting wheely things, I love that it smells like stale beer, I love that it doesn't look good.

Maybe it's partially the puritan upbringing that makes me think we should suffer for our beer. But this article made me sad. I'd always looked askance at the LCBO taking business away from the Brewer's Retail, and according to the Star that was the best possible outcome and there should be more of it.

Maybe the government could take over the Beer Store, too? No? I hope this leads to reforms of some sort, at least, cuz the provincial government could definitely use the cash.
posted by ldthomps at 11:03 AM on December 9, 2014

The Beer Store is an embarrassment. But Ontarians are so used to it, it's become normal. And its existence makes life incredibly hard for craft brewers.
posted by Sportswriters at 11:04 AM on December 9, 2014 [4 favorites]

I mean, why don't we have a Food Store, and a Furniture Store, and a Car Store, and just dispense with competition entirely?
posted by Sportswriters at 11:05 AM on December 9, 2014 [3 favorites]

(Also the Beer Store looks exactly like what it is: a location that has no competition and therefore feels no need to provide a pleasant environment or any degree of customer responsiveness whatsoever)
posted by Sportswriters at 11:07 AM on December 9, 2014 [5 favorites]

"And its existence makes life incredibly hard for craft brewers."

That's what really makes me hate the Beer Store (the LCBO has a reasonable quality of booze and is convenient, so shrug) - it's a monopoly of crappy factory beers preventing a culture of innovation and great craft beers that the rest of north america is experiencing (the states in particular).

Strangely the LCBO seems to actually have a better selection of beer, so I always buy my beer there (also, a better location for me). I don't hate the existence of the LCBO, but it's not necessary - the state can tax liquor like every other government on the planet and gets its revenue that way.
posted by el io at 11:07 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

Americans: it's basically as if you bought beer at the DMV, only slightly less pleasant
posted by Sportswriters at 11:08 AM on December 9, 2014 [13 favorites]

Other places just tax the booze, the state still gets it's profit... There is no reason why they need to have a state-run store for the place (places including Sweden/Finland, etc).

I quite like the LCBO; I would much rather all the profits from selling alcohol go towards paying my doctor and librarian than into some private corporation's pockets. (Yes, the LCBO plows some profits back into the business, but the rest goes to Queen's Park).

Also, the LCBO (and same agencies in other provinces) provide a pretty hard to refute model for legal marijuana sales.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:10 AM on December 9, 2014 [3 favorites]

The Beer Store gets by mainly because John Q Public thinks it's either 1) a government institution or 2) Canadian owned. Neither of the two parties who have a shot at winning a provincial election have any shown any interested in removing their monopoly, and the only way that they're going to go against the lobbyists is if the general public realized that the only place they can buy a two-four is a legally mandated Japanese/Brazilian consortium.

Let's kill the Beer Store first before we worry about fixing the LCBO.
posted by thecjm at 11:44 AM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR NOT BEING GOOD CAPITALISTS!

COMMIE CANUCK BASTARDS!
posted by nerdler at 11:59 AM on December 9, 2014

Does it really matter ? Their beer sucks


*punches k5.user in the side of the face*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:14 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

Oh man, having lived in Quebec, Ontario, Alberta, and BC - Ontario and BC have by fare the worst liquor laws.

Hahahaah. Yeah. I lived in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and Saskatchewan. All of those places have worse liquor laws than any of the above provinces. In return, I love the Beer Store when I'm in Ontario. It's hilariously gritty to me. The worst are the Ontario 'wine' stores. Horrible selection, terrible prices. I wish there were just provincial-owned liquor stores like a normal province.
posted by hydrobatidae at 12:35 PM on December 9, 2014

The Wine Store is a private store that sells Ontario wines only--some sort of loophole in LCBO rules or something. Alcohol prices in Ontario are set by the LCBO.

The LCBO is a provincially-owned liquor store like a normal province. Or have I totally misunderstood your final sentence?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:39 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

FFFM: Unless I'm mistaken, the Queen of England owns the LCBO.
posted by el io at 12:42 PM on December 9, 2014

The newest Beer Store in the Junction (cheek to jowl with the Metro on St. Clair) is one of the newer, slightly-snazzier designs. Walk in the door and go left to get the full sour, malty tang of spilled beer and the clatter of the conveyer belt in order to return your empties, or turn right to walk past the cash registers and into the land of self-serve two-fours. There may be some subtext there.
posted by maudlin at 12:43 PM on December 9, 2014

FFFM: Unless I'm mistaken, the Queen of England owns the LCBO.

*gets popcorn*
posted by maudlin at 12:44 PM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

FFFM: Unless I'm mistaken, the Queen of England owns the LCBO.

1) There is no such person as the Queen of England and hasn't been since 1707 or something
2) The Crown is a legal entity separate from The Queen as a person
3) Over here she's The Queen of Canada (separate title)
4) The LCBO and Wine Rack (miswrote 'store' above) are separate entities; one is a Crown corp and the other is private
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:46 PM on December 9, 2014 [5 favorites]

As a canuck transplant in Iowa City I have to chuckle - I have braved the price-gouging, the backwards-hours, the pathetic selection of both The Beer Store in Ontario and the Liquor Store in B.C. Here is my neighbourhood grocery (yes, grocery) in Iowa City.
posted by Jake DeNiro at 12:48 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

Oh God I loved when I lived in Iowa being able to go grocery shopping and pick up vodka the next aisle over from the coke.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:51 PM on December 9, 2014

Oh God I loved when I lived in Iowa being able to go grocery shopping and pick up vodka the next aisle over from the coke.

I know that most states have decent liquor stores and that several states sell weed legally, but isn't Iowa just showing off now?
posted by maudlin at 12:58 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

maudlin: To be fair, if you want LSD you have to go to the state ran LSD store.
posted by el io at 1:11 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

I used to think we didn't have it that bad in Ontario. Then I went to a liquor store in a tiny suburb outside of Boston and it was a GLORIOUS PARADISE OF CRAFT BEER from across the whole country and I realized what I had been missing.

(Part of it is that the US has 10 times the population and thus way more craft breweries, but still...)
posted by mr. manager at 1:11 PM on December 9, 2014

Here is my neighbourhood grocery (yes, grocery) in Iowa City.

*ctrl-f Westmalle*


GAHH! FUCKING MIKE HARRIS!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:27 PM on December 9, 2014

While factory beer swill still rules america in terms of volume sold, the last 20 years has been an explosion of selection that can be overwhelming. Not only is there good beer to be found in the US, there's great beer of every imaginable variety.

Meanwhile, in Ontario, the swill producers have successfully lobbied the government to ensure that craft breweries cannot get their fledgling enterprises distribution.

It is my hope that Ontarians (what is the proper word there?) of all political stripes, rise up and demand change. And by change, I mean access to quality beer.

The thing is, if Ontario is anything like the US, the swill will still hold 80+% of the market - that's what most people want. If there is any political issue that should be post-partisan, it is the desire to get quality beer.
posted by el io at 1:32 PM on December 9, 2014

Plenty of craft breweries get distribution, it's just not through TBS. Lots of pubs and bars here in Toronto serve local/micro brews (my friend's resto serves beer made literally a block away), and the LCBO carries the more popular crafty stuff.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:35 PM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

The LCBO has a better selection than the beer store, but it's still a poor selection for a large gas-station in the US, let alone a proper grocery store. I buy all my beer from the LCBO. But as a whole the Ontario beer selection is laughably awful (see that grocery store link above in this thread).

If beer distribution was opened up to grocery stores the craft market would explode in this province.
posted by el io at 1:39 PM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

fffm, I meant that I wish the 'wine' store in the nearest strip mall to my brother's was just a normal provincial liquor store (i.e. an LCBO) because the 'wine' store sucks.
posted by hydrobatidae at 2:29 PM on December 9, 2014

COMMIE CANUCK BASTARDS!

Actually, The Beer Store is capitalism run amok -- a collusive circle-jerk between Molson, Labatt, and Sleeman. Or should I say Coors, Bud, and Sapporo.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:38 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

I lived in Calgary in 1993, and happened to be there right when the liquor stores got privatized. I remain convinced pricing went up and selection went down, generally speaking.

That said, there was a shop attached to a seedy hotel downtown called "BEER LAND" where one could buy draft beer from a tap in milk jugs. On a Sunday. With a credit card. At this time in ontario there were no sunday sales and cash only, so it was like being on another planet.




also mmmmmmmmmmm big rock
posted by hearthpig at 4:50 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

I was only recently made aware that Brewer's Retail/The Beer Store was not a government-run thing. Given that their standard retail setup is modelled after Soviet breadlines I'd argue that their free-market execs love irony.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 5:29 PM on December 9, 2014 [2 favorites]

The Beer Store is a fucked, anachronistic operation - but I get the nostalgia for its grit and rituals. A case of beer coming off the rollers? I mean, COME ON. That's the sound of a Saturday shopping outing with the folks.

This is a interesting read on some of the history of booze and its regulation in Canada, appropriately titled.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:45 PM on December 9, 2014 [1 favorite]

I should add: the cashier in the brown sport coat and the microphone are period- and culturally-accurate set pieces in that Strange Brew scene.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:56 PM on December 9, 2014

I am the son of a Molson Employee and worked four summers in the Fleet Street brewery in Toronto putting labels on millions of bottles (my tongue is still sore, 25 years later, from all that licking ).

Say what you will about Brewers Retail (The Beer Store) but walking in there with coupons for free 12 packs was the closest I have ever come to a public performance of magic. I'd hear guys in line behind me in line whispering "How'd he do dat eh?" and "Woah" while my twelves were slid along the conveyor and no cash or electronic payment was exchanged. Hell, I actually made money by drinking beer because I didn't even pay the bottle deposit.

I'm pretty sure the only reason I am even barely on my father-in-laws good side is that he'd get to use those coupons in his pretty remote rural Ontario Beer Store and dazzle guys he has known all his life with his new found powers.

Now all that said since leaving Canada I have tried about 1400 different beers in 10 years and think The Beer Store is pathetic. Now when I go back to Canada I get my beer at the LCBO stores instead because they have the good stuff and are much nicer physical stores.
posted by srboisvert at 7:08 PM on December 9, 2014

Jake DeNiro: "As a canuck transplant in Iowa City I have to chuckle - I have braved the price-gouging, the backwards-hours, the pathetic selection of both The Beer Store in Ontario and the Liquor Store in B.C. Here is my neighbourhood grocery (yes, grocery) in Iowa City."

Iowa (and most other states) used to have state-run monopoly outlets for alcoholic beverages. Now, just the liquor distributor is a state monopoly. Washington still had the retail outlets for liquor when I lived there in 2006, although that has changed.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:32 PM on December 9, 2014

I'm fortunate enough to have 2 independent breweries with walking distance of where I live so I can avoid the Beer Store. Even without the indies, I would buy beer at the LCBO.
posted by juiceCake at 9:26 PM on December 9, 2014