A Movie For Ants
January 6, 2015 8:15 PM Subscribe
Marvel has released the first
trailer (and minimalist poster) for Ant-Man, the twelfth theatrical film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Meanwhile, tomorrow's New Comic Wednesday will see the self-deprecating debut of comic Ant-Man #1, with protagonist Scott "not the flashiest Ant-Man" Lang as the titular tiny hero headlining a series for his first time.
The Ant-Man comic is written by Nick Spencer, providing some comfort now that his critical darling series The Superior Foes of Spider-Man has ended and taken all joy in life with it.
Meanwhile, tomorrow's New Comic Wednesday will see the self-deprecating debut of comic Ant-Man #1, with protagonist Scott "not the flashiest Ant-Man" Lang as the titular tiny hero headlining a series for his first time.
The Ant-Man comic is written by Nick Spencer, providing some comfort now that his critical darling series The Superior Foes of Spider-Man has ended and taken all joy in life with it.
I am luring my parents to see it under false pretenses with the promise of Michael Douglas.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:22 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nicebookrack at 8:22 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I kind of hate that I'm going to see this, but I'm going to see this.
posted by dogheart at 8:23 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by dogheart at 8:23 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah. Does not stand up well in comparison to the GOTG trailers, though the premise is similarly silly.
I was sort of hoping they'd post this as the movie's teaser (here's some context for those of you who may need it).
posted by killdevil at 8:23 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was sort of hoping they'd post this as the movie's teaser (here's some context for those of you who may need it).
posted by killdevil at 8:23 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
A bunch of my friends worked on this, so I learned one thing that I needed to know:
Garrett Morris is in the movie.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 8:25 PM on January 6, 2015 [21 favorites]
Garrett Morris is in the movie.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 8:25 PM on January 6, 2015 [21 favorites]
I'm completely unfamiliar with the character and only knew about the film from Edgar Wright's previous involvement. I'll probably see it but I agree with turbid dahlia the trailer was underwhelming. I could feel it building up to a turn where the lead says something goofy to undercut the generic pomposity of the trailer. And that happened. And then it was back to generic action movie fluff.
posted by dumbland at 8:27 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dumbland at 8:27 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Garrett Morris is in the movie.
I was just watching "Superhero Party" from SNL.
posted by Rob Rockets at 8:29 PM on January 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
I was just watching "Superhero Party" from SNL.
posted by Rob Rockets at 8:29 PM on January 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's not GotG trailer, yeah, but the tone is pretty good for an introduction to this bizarre concept. Perhaps if they had shown more of the heist elements and less of the man riding a wasp.
Still, it looks intriguing and fun, well worth a ticket.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:32 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Still, it looks intriguing and fun, well worth a ticket.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:32 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
OOPS that was in the post. forgive pls.
posted by cendawanita at 8:35 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by cendawanita at 8:35 PM on January 6, 2015
Last week Marvel released the ant-sized teaser for the teaser(!) for this trailer. Clearly they're still employing the crack team behind the extended look at Iron Man 3!
posted by nicebookrack at 8:40 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by nicebookrack at 8:40 PM on January 6, 2015
We were all expressing the same reservations about GOTG. I will not bet against these people.
posted by localroger at 8:46 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by localroger at 8:46 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
No, we weren't. GotG was a hit, trailer wise, due to its use music. Ant-Man doesn't have anything like that going for it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:53 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:53 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Marvel had to drop the ball once, you can't just ride an ever cresting wave, it has to slow down sometime. Just sad that it was Paul Rudd who had to take the hit.
I seriously hope I'm wrong and this is a runaway hit, because nobody is making old school blockbusters like Marvel right now. GOTG was one of the best simple movies I've seen in a long time. I liked Xmen-DOFP as well. Go Marvel.
posted by Sphinx at 8:54 PM on January 6, 2015
I seriously hope I'm wrong and this is a runaway hit, because nobody is making old school blockbusters like Marvel right now. GOTG was one of the best simple movies I've seen in a long time. I liked Xmen-DOFP as well. Go Marvel.
posted by Sphinx at 8:54 PM on January 6, 2015
"Not as good as GotG" is a pretty faint condemnation, trailer-wise - that thing was an amazing piece of marketing.
posted by Artw at 9:01 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:01 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Tom Hardy is also apparently in it, as Ant Man's arch nemesis Carpet Beetle.
posted by jimmythefish at 9:02 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by jimmythefish at 9:02 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
I dunno you guys, I thought that was a great trailer for Homeless Dad.
posted by greenland at 9:06 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by greenland at 9:06 PM on January 6, 2015
It works if you imagine that this is simply the sequel to One Hot American Summer.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 9:08 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 9:08 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is the first marvel trailer that just bounced off of me. I went from about a 6 on a ten point scale of interest to about a 3.
posted by empath at 9:11 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by empath at 9:11 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Considering the troubled history of the film and that Edgar Wright, who has never made a movie didn't at least like, has dropped out...I
I'm not exactly excited and this teaser didn't help. I'm like, negatively enthused.
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm not exactly excited and this teaser didn't help. I'm like, negatively enthused.
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
I was hoping they'd have more visuals like the test footage that leaked a couple years back - the cool visual with Ant-Man isn't a bit of footage of Ant-Man human-sized here and then a bit of footage of Ant-Man ant-sized and riding an insect there, it's chaotic fight scenes where he constantly transitions between the two scales and does things you wouldn't think of with his powers while the scale of the shot changes so one second he's sharing space on a set with the guy he's fighting and the next second that guy basically is the set as Ant-Man does some nifty tiny thing. The character is an opportunity to do crazy things nobody's ever seen before with action movie fight scenes, so it sucks that that's not immediately front and center - I feel like that would have been the focus if Wright stayed on, Scott Pilgrim showed that he's got the chops for exactly the kind of inventive stuff Ant-Man needs.
I think for me the big comparison to the GotG trailer is that Chris Pratt basically out-Paul Rudded Paul Rudd with the sarcastic impish cute guy thing in that trailer. That's kind of Rudd's whole image so it gives Ant-Man's trailer an unfavorable comparison with GotG's if it doesn't have Rudd topping Pratt on what's basically his own home turf.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:25 PM on January 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think for me the big comparison to the GotG trailer is that Chris Pratt basically out-Paul Rudded Paul Rudd with the sarcastic impish cute guy thing in that trailer. That's kind of Rudd's whole image so it gives Ant-Man's trailer an unfavorable comparison with GotG's if it doesn't have Rudd topping Pratt on what's basically his own home turf.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:25 PM on January 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
But personally I'm leaning towards "this is probably just a lackluster trailer for a good movie". Really only GotG and the first Iron Man movie knocked it out of the park with their trailers.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:28 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:28 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
My wife and I watch the trailer. She says: "Wait. We don't get a Black Widow movie, but we do get that?"
I agree. I'll go see it, because I'm a completist and it's part of the 'verse, but... ugh.
posted by joycehealy at 9:30 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
I agree. I'll go see it, because I'm a completist and it's part of the 'verse, but... ugh.
posted by joycehealy at 9:30 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
Definitely a reboot of Honey I Shrunk the Kids.
posted by Nevin at 9:31 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Nevin at 9:31 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Even if the trailer reaction is lukewarm, I'm sure like literally all of you will still go see it. So it's still going to make money hand over fist.
posted by FJT at 9:38 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by FJT at 9:38 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
You know, since it's a reimagining of the characters anyways and Pym is in the older mentor role now they could probably use the same Karate Kid-esque plot and cast a female lead and call it The Wasp and not have to make a defensive joke about the silly name.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:40 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:40 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
Those Superior Foes Of Spider-Man links are great.
posted by JHarris at 9:43 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 9:43 PM on January 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
I believe the Black Widow movie is called "Ghost in the Shell".
posted by Artw at 9:44 PM on January 6, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:44 PM on January 6, 2015 [19 favorites]
Definitely a reboot of Honey I Shrunk the Kids
And lest we forget, Honey was a huge hit that produced at least one sequel and a TV series. One only hopes that Ant-Man can touch us as deeply as Antie, the ant who taught us how to love.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:48 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
And lest we forget, Honey was a huge hit that produced at least one sequel and a TV series. One only hopes that Ant-Man can touch us as deeply as Antie, the ant who taught us how to love.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:48 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm a pretty big MCU fan but honestly Ant-Man has always seemed sort of a weird fit. It was one of the first properties Marvel tried to develop but it was in limbo for so long, and then worked on by Edgar Wright for so long, and then he just bails?
If it is a relative failure for Marvel, I'm not sure how much it'll mean. I mean, that Norton Hulk movie is technically MCU too but nobody really gives a shit about it either.
posted by kmz at 9:51 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
If it is a relative failure for Marvel, I'm not sure how much it'll mean. I mean, that Norton Hulk movie is technically MCU too but nobody really gives a shit about it either.
posted by kmz at 9:51 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I believe the Black Widow movie is called "Ghost in the Shell".
Ugh. Don't remind me. I'm sure it'll work out great just like Last Airbender or 47 Ronin or the proposed Akira.
posted by kmz at 9:52 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ugh. Don't remind me. I'm sure it'll work out great just like Last Airbender or 47 Ronin or the proposed Akira.
posted by kmz at 9:52 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
There is one thing they could have put in this trailer that would have gotten me on board immediately and that thing is Swarm, the Nazi made of bees.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:53 PM on January 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:53 PM on January 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
At least they included the Foghorn of Gravitas.
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:55 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:55 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
It just wasn't funny enough. All I could do was imagine how punchy and fun the teaser would have been if Edgar Wright was still attached. We would all be super jazzed right now.
*sigh*
Hopefully they'll amp it up a little. The marketing so far has been fun.
posted by AzzaMcKazza at 9:56 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
*sigh*
Hopefully they'll amp it up a little. The marketing so far has been fun.
posted by AzzaMcKazza at 9:56 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm hoping that the presence of Scott's daughter Cassie Lang in the movie is building toward her eventual addition as a superhero in her own right. In a couple of years, add Cassie + the other Young Avengers + throw in Harley from Iron Man 3 for good measure = I will be very happy.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:56 PM on January 6, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 9:56 PM on January 6, 2015 [10 favorites]
Three words: Janet Van Crime.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:07 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:07 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
that Norton Hulk movie is technically MCU too but nobody really gives a shit about it either.
It's a very effective nostalgia machine for fans of the Hulk TV show and gets points for doing the entire origin story in the opening credits. The entire final act Harlem smash-em-up is boring but that's an on going problem with Marvel movies. It's a bit pointless but less freaking nonsensical than Iron Man 2.
posted by The Whelk at 10:13 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's a very effective nostalgia machine for fans of the Hulk TV show and gets points for doing the entire origin story in the opening credits. The entire final act Harlem smash-em-up is boring but that's an on going problem with Marvel movies. It's a bit pointless but less freaking nonsensical than Iron Man 2.
posted by The Whelk at 10:13 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
...I really liked the Norton Hulk film.
I like Ruffalo's performance better, mind you, but I thought the MCU Hulk film (as opposed to the Ang Lee WTF-fest) was great.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:15 PM on January 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
I like Ruffalo's performance better, mind you, but I thought the MCU Hulk film (as opposed to the Ang Lee WTF-fest) was great.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:15 PM on January 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's a nicely contained Hulk adventure where nothing is BAD but nothing is really GOOD. It's very workman and effective at doing its deal
posted by The Whelk at 10:18 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 10:18 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
(The Lesser Marvel Movies are, in order: Iroan Man 2, which was pointless and nonsensical and wastes lots of good stuff, Hulk: which was workman and competent, and Thor 2 which makes no sense but is a bit like eating an entire can of frosting for dinner.)
posted by The Whelk at 10:20 PM on January 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 10:20 PM on January 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
The Leader got teased at the end of Hulk... that bugger is never coming back.
posted by Artw at 10:20 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:20 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just really want to know what Ant-Man is saying in the Skottie Young variant cover.
posted by narain at 10:20 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by narain at 10:20 PM on January 6, 2015
Wasn't Aunt-Man the sequel to The Man from U.N.C.L.E.?
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:29 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:29 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fingers crossed that ...
1) Someone remembered to write plenty of jokes for Paul Rudd.
2) That Michael Douglas isn't playing some dried up wizened mentor version of Hank Pym. If he isn't a total shitshow fuckup of a borderline supervillain, he's not a Hank Pym that makes any sense to me.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:30 PM on January 6, 2015 [9 favorites]
1) Someone remembered to write plenty of jokes for Paul Rudd.
2) That Michael Douglas isn't playing some dried up wizened mentor version of Hank Pym. If he isn't a total shitshow fuckup of a borderline supervillain, he's not a Hank Pym that makes any sense to me.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:30 PM on January 6, 2015 [9 favorites]
The Pyms need to be more of an obvious supervillian family legacy than the Starks when they already have Supervillian Family Legacy on their Christmas card list.
posted by The Whelk at 10:34 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by The Whelk at 10:34 PM on January 6, 2015
Tom Hardy is also apparently in it, as Ant Man's arch nemesis Carpet Beetle.
I'm sure that's a joke but I also know so little about Ant-Man that I can kinda make myself believe that's actually a thing and I prefer it that way.
posted by DyRE at 10:37 PM on January 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm sure that's a joke but I also know so little about Ant-Man that I can kinda make myself believe that's actually a thing and I prefer it that way.
posted by DyRE at 10:37 PM on January 6, 2015 [6 favorites]
Does the suit include a Pym's Cup?
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:46 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:46 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ant-Man, really?
I laughed at Entourage when they expected me to believe that a movie about Aquaman could be a monster hit. And now this. What have we come to, people? At long last, what have we come to?
posted by Justinian at 10:52 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I laughed at Entourage when they expected me to believe that a movie about Aquaman could be a monster hit. And now this. What have we come to, people? At long last, what have we come to?
posted by Justinian at 10:52 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
But OH HAI Evangeline Lilly, screw it I'm in! Lets do this guys!
posted by Justinian at 10:53 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 10:53 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thor 2 which makes no sense but is a bit like eating an entire can of frosting for dinner
There's no character in the MCU more compelling than Hiddleston's Loki, nor any relationship as interesting as Thor and Loki, and Thor 2 delivered on both counts, while also having one of the most fun and inventive climactic action sequences of any of the films, so I'd have to put it near the top of the list.
posted by straight at 10:55 PM on January 6, 2015 [18 favorites]
There's no character in the MCU more compelling than Hiddleston's Loki, nor any relationship as interesting as Thor and Loki, and Thor 2 delivered on both counts, while also having one of the most fun and inventive climactic action sequences of any of the films, so I'd have to put it near the top of the list.
posted by straight at 10:55 PM on January 6, 2015 [18 favorites]
Plus: hammer, coat rack.
posted by Sebmojo at 10:57 PM on January 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 10:57 PM on January 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
And Darcy and Jane use physics-magic to save the day!
posted by nicebookrack at 11:00 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 11:00 PM on January 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
That Michael Douglas isn't playing some dried up wizened mentor version of Hank Pym. If he isn't a total shitshow fuckup of a borderline supervillain, he's not a Hank Pym that makes any sense to me.
I'm pretty sure that's the problem. Too many different ideas about what to do with Hank Pym and how he should fit into the whole MCU (especially with Ultron lurking just around the corner) and Edgar Wright being more interested in making a good movie than servicing the franchise.
posted by straight at 11:03 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure that's the problem. Too many different ideas about what to do with Hank Pym and how he should fit into the whole MCU (especially with Ultron lurking just around the corner) and Edgar Wright being more interested in making a good movie than servicing the franchise.
posted by straight at 11:03 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I laughed at Entourage when they expected me to believe that a movie about Aquaman could be a monster hit.
They've got Khal Drogo to play Polynesian Aquaman, which sounds pretty badass to me.
posted by narain at 11:03 PM on January 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
They've got Khal Drogo to play Polynesian Aquaman, which sounds pretty badass to me.
posted by narain at 11:03 PM on January 6, 2015 [13 favorites]
Literally the only joke in that trailer is, "Our movie's protagonist has a silly name."
posted by straight at 11:08 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by straight at 11:08 PM on January 6, 2015
The only thing I remember about Ant Man was some comic page about him making love to a full sized woman.
... I think it was legit? I have no idea. It was strange.
posted by DriftingLotus at 11:22 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
... I think it was legit? I have no idea. It was strange.
posted by DriftingLotus at 11:22 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
... I think it was legit? I have no idea. It was strange.
It was in Ultimates, which, well, your comment could be the tagline for Ultimates.
posted by kagredon at 11:25 PM on January 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
It was in Ultimates, which, well, your comment could be the tagline for Ultimates.
posted by kagredon at 11:25 PM on January 6, 2015 [16 favorites]
It was in Ultimates, which, well, your comment could be the tagline for Ultimates.
That was it!
...and LOL.
posted by DriftingLotus at 11:29 PM on January 6, 2015
That was it!
...and LOL.
posted by DriftingLotus at 11:29 PM on January 6, 2015
The actor in the trailer looked embarrassed to be in it, which I sympathize with -- that was seriously underwhelming.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:40 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by Dip Flash at 11:40 PM on January 6, 2015
Michael Douglas sounds distressingly like Stan Lee nowadays.
posted by lumensimus at 11:47 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by lumensimus at 11:47 PM on January 6, 2015
It was in Ultimates, which, well, your comment could be the tagline for Ultimates.
Nope. That was mainstream continuity Avengers, and the "full-sized woman" was the ex-spouse whom he had abused...during his nervous breakdown in which he built a robot to attack the team to show how awesome he was since he know how to defeat it.
Of course, he fucked that up, too, and Jan (said then-spouse) defeated the robot and saved everyone.
This was back in the very early '80s, when the plot outlines read like they're awesome, but then you go read the actual comics and the dialogue is just cringe-worthy. As opposed to today, where the dialogue and action are freakin' great, but the plot outlines are just...what the fuck, Marvel?
Anyway. Yeah. That's Jan, who should be in this movie. Or, really, Jan, who should have her own goddamn movie and Hank should be a supporting character whom she outgrows, because Jan's awesome and fuck that guy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:24 AM on January 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
Nope. That was mainstream continuity Avengers, and the "full-sized woman" was the ex-spouse whom he had abused...during his nervous breakdown in which he built a robot to attack the team to show how awesome he was since he know how to defeat it.
Of course, he fucked that up, too, and Jan (said then-spouse) defeated the robot and saved everyone.
This was back in the very early '80s, when the plot outlines read like they're awesome, but then you go read the actual comics and the dialogue is just cringe-worthy. As opposed to today, where the dialogue and action are freakin' great, but the plot outlines are just...what the fuck, Marvel?
Anyway. Yeah. That's Jan, who should be in this movie. Or, really, Jan, who should have her own goddamn movie and Hank should be a supporting character whom she outgrows, because Jan's awesome and fuck that guy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:24 AM on January 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
No Jan, no money. No Jan, no paying MCU any more fucking attention, Chris Evans' meatball charm be damned.
posted by Mizu at 12:27 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 12:27 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Thor 2 delivered on both counts
Except in no universe is Charing Cross three stops away from Greenwich on the Underground. VERISIMILITUDE SHATTERED.
I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic Tube line or something? *snort* Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:50 AM on January 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Except in no universe is Charing Cross three stops away from Greenwich on the Underground. VERISIMILITUDE SHATTERED.
I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic Tube line or something? *snort* Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:50 AM on January 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Damn, I got serious Daredevil vibes from that trailer.
Also, I hope to God that it turns out that Hank is evil and the reason why there's no Jan is that he killed her. And then everyone has to take down Hank because he is an asshole.
posted by Katemonkey at 1:00 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, I hope to God that it turns out that Hank is evil and the reason why there's no Jan is that he killed her. And then everyone has to take down Hank because he is an asshole.
posted by Katemonkey at 1:00 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ah, dang. See, that's what I get for expecting Marvel to stick to the Ultimates mixedcaps-616 ALL-CAPS style convention.
(Hank's still a shitheel wifebeater in Ultimates continuity, though, and this time they didn't even have the awkward convoluted plotting to blame. Yay for terrible decisions!)
posted by kagredon at 1:02 AM on January 7, 2015
(Hank's still a shitheel wifebeater in Ultimates continuity, though, and this time they didn't even have the awkward convoluted plotting to blame. Yay for terrible decisions!)
posted by kagredon at 1:02 AM on January 7, 2015
Mr. Bad Example: Except in no universe is Charing Cross three stops away from Greenwich on the Underground. VERISIMILITUDE SHATTERED.
Unless, of course, they've reopened the Dunwich Line, with stops at Carcosa Street, Hobb's End and Royanjohn Road. Everything in London is so much closer when you're travelling on that line.
posted by nfalkner at 2:33 AM on January 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Unless, of course, they've reopened the Dunwich Line, with stops at Carcosa Street, Hobb's End and Royanjohn Road. Everything in London is so much closer when you're travelling on that line.
posted by nfalkner at 2:33 AM on January 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Points for not using "Louie Louie" while making breakfast and dancing for his daughter.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:49 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:49 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just spent the whole time distracted wondering if the inclusion of the girl means that there's gonna be a Cassie in this movie, but no one is credited for a character with that name. But since it'd be another decade+ til that character (and/or her actress, but surely they can switch with that kind of age gap) would be old enough to be a legit part of a Young Avengers team. Anyway, I think that story might've relied on some important MCU characters being dead (or at least Marvel dead) to work, so it seems unlikely that even if the daughter in the movie is Cassandra Lang that she'd be used as a hook for any Young Avengers stuff.
I want a Young Avengers show so, so bad though. It would be so great. It could be like MCU Smallville. But different. With appearances from whichever actors they can afford from the movies occasionally.
posted by NoraReed at 3:12 AM on January 7, 2015
I want a Young Avengers show so, so bad though. It would be so great. It could be like MCU Smallville. But different. With appearances from whichever actors they can afford from the movies occasionally.
posted by NoraReed at 3:12 AM on January 7, 2015
While I too pine for the Giant Sized What-If that would be the Wright version of this movie, his lack of inclusion is sort of his fault. As mentioned upthread, Ant-Man was one of the earlier properties to be developed for a movie, but Wright was too busy with other projects to work on it. By the time he did, much more of the Marvel cinematic universe was established and a plan was in place. Wright chaffed against the rules and left.
So my expectations for the movie are pretty low. But hey, I like Paul Rudd, I like Ant-Man, and I like Marvel movies, so I'll give it a shot even if this teaser (ungh. is that a thing now? A teaser then a trailer then a preview?) is super generic.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:46 AM on January 7, 2015
So my expectations for the movie are pretty low. But hey, I like Paul Rudd, I like Ant-Man, and I like Marvel movies, so I'll give it a shot even if this teaser (ungh. is that a thing now? A teaser then a trailer then a preview?) is super generic.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:46 AM on January 7, 2015
Watching the Agent Carter premiere last night, we kept catching the "COMING UP, THE WORLD PREMIER OF THE TEASER!" announcements at every commercial break. I decided that the best thing would be some kind of action movie soundtrack "IN A WORLD" level of amp-up, and then just show a tiny ant on a bit white background.
Alas, no.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:15 AM on January 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Alas, no.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:15 AM on January 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Young Avengers is in Phase 4, tentatively set for May 2023, so that works out OK for their timeline.
There's also Howard the Duck vs. Pro-Rata the Cosmic Accountant (2025), Captain America (with the Falcon actor in the lead, with flashbacks to the "original" black Captain), and the first MCU Spider-Man leading into Secret Wars.
And the Fox F4 movies will be on their third reboot.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:17 AM on January 7, 2015
There's also Howard the Duck vs. Pro-Rata the Cosmic Accountant (2025), Captain America (with the Falcon actor in the lead, with flashbacks to the "original" black Captain), and the first MCU Spider-Man leading into Secret Wars.
And the Fox F4 movies will be on their third reboot.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:17 AM on January 7, 2015
GotG = Guardians of the Galaxy. I think. My super powers are Google and inference.
posted by dashDashDot at 4:20 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by dashDashDot at 4:20 AM on January 7, 2015
This is a Teaser. I'm not going to judge a movie based on the teaser. If a movie is the main course, the trailer is the sampler platter. The teaser is like reading a rough description of the menu. I'm content to hold back my snark till at least the full trailer.
Also, while GotG was an unbelievable amount of fun, I don't think I or Marvel want every movie they do to be that same tone. (Though I will not complain for more of it)
posted by Twain Device at 4:43 AM on January 7, 2015
Also, while GotG was an unbelievable amount of fun, I don't think I or Marvel want every movie they do to be that same tone. (Though I will not complain for more of it)
posted by Twain Device at 4:43 AM on January 7, 2015
That looked pretty generic. I'm not always an Edgar Wright fan but I'm guessing that he would have would have done something more visually interesting than that. I may be approaching my Marvel tipping point, I haven't really been blown away by one of their films since The Avengers and while I liked Agents of Shield better than most people, I wasn't all that thrilled with Agent Carter last night.
posted by octothorpe at 4:50 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 4:50 AM on January 7, 2015
If I knew nothing about this movie but the trailer and you told me it was (at one point) Edgar Wright's baby I would call you a liar to your face.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:57 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:57 AM on January 7, 2015
Hayley Atwell said in an interview that Agent Carter will be connected to Ant-Man, which has prompted speculation that Hank Pym worked with SHIELD as the original Ant-Man.
If this is accurate, I hope that this film is enough of a smash success to spawn a sequel '60 period piece, Ant-Man & Wasp!
posted by nicebookrack at 4:58 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
If this is accurate, I hope that this film is enough of a smash success to spawn a sequel '60 period piece, Ant-Man & Wasp!
posted by nicebookrack at 4:58 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Ant-Man" Script Officially Credited to Adam McKay and Paul Rudd; Edgar Wright Gets "Story By"
posted by nicebookrack at 5:01 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by nicebookrack at 5:01 AM on January 7, 2015
Aw, I am going to give it a chance. I will add to the chorus of what an odd choice in terms of being made in the popular MCU franchise. Sadly, with the Age of Ultron coming out the same summer, Ant Man is just gonna get buried. Poor timing for it to have a shot. GoTG was utterly delightful, but it was also the only MCU film out last summer. It would have probably held its own against the next Avengers film if it had been released the same summer.
posted by Kitteh at 5:34 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by Kitteh at 5:34 AM on January 7, 2015
This is a Teaser.
The meaning of this word when it comes to movie previews varies greatly. Previously there was a another teaser that was all of 20s. This one is almost two minutes and still called a teaser.
I suspect this is just rather ho-hum trailer for an entertaining movie. Supposedly it's a heist flick, wish they would have played up that angle. As for Edgar Wright, he's gone y'all, no idea why people are still bringing him up.
but it was also the only MCU film out last summer.
Nope, Captain America: Winter Soldier came out last year also.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:37 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The meaning of this word when it comes to movie previews varies greatly. Previously there was a another teaser that was all of 20s. This one is almost two minutes and still called a teaser.
I suspect this is just rather ho-hum trailer for an entertaining movie. Supposedly it's a heist flick, wish they would have played up that angle. As for Edgar Wright, he's gone y'all, no idea why people are still bringing him up.
but it was also the only MCU film out last summer.
Nope, Captain America: Winter Soldier came out last year also.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:37 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Cap 2 was released last year too, my bad. But it didn't come out in the summer. It came out in the spring. Not even on Memorial Day weekend either!
posted by Kitteh at 5:42 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 5:42 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
OK. Here's my list:
Greater Marvel
Captain America 2
Captain America
The Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
SHIELD Post Hydra (I'm borderline here)
Decent Marvel
Thor 2 (but such FUN!)
Iron Man
Iron Man 3
Thor
Lesser Marvel
Iron Man 2 (huh?)
Hulk (meh)
SHIELD Pre Hydra (*sigh*)
posted by leotrotsky at 5:45 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Greater Marvel
Captain America 2
Captain America
The Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
SHIELD Post Hydra (I'm borderline here)
Decent Marvel
Thor 2 (but such FUN!)
Iron Man
Iron Man 3
Thor
Lesser Marvel
Iron Man 2 (huh?)
Hulk (meh)
SHIELD Pre Hydra (*sigh*)
posted by leotrotsky at 5:45 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's not a MCU movie I want to see less, and the facts that we're getting this before a Black Widow movie and Janet is dead when the Ant-Man movie starts ticks me off.
posted by FunkyHelix at 5:57 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by FunkyHelix at 5:57 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is it official that Jan is dead or are we assuming that based on Hank being old?
posted by nicebookrack at 6:02 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by nicebookrack at 6:02 AM on January 7, 2015
Since they went with an age-shifted Hank Pym, I think they're going to introduce Hope Van Dyne as the Wasp, and she'll be Janet in everything but name rather than the Red Queen.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:19 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:19 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is it official that Jan is dead or are we assuming that based on Hank being old?
In this interview, Michael Douglas, who plays Hank Pym, says “...a tragic personal accident happened with my wife, my daughter, Evangeline, Hope. So I’ve had to pass my powers and strengths onto a mentor. "
Looking at the Wikipedia page of the movie, Evangeline Lilly, who plays the daughter of Hank and Janet, says her character was raised by two superheroes. But there's not mention of Janet in the cast. So...nothing really known.
So it definitely sounds like Janet is dead due to an accident and Hank himself is permanently injured, hence Scott Lang becoming Ant-Man.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:27 AM on January 7, 2015
In this interview, Michael Douglas, who plays Hank Pym, says “...a tragic personal accident happened with my wife, my daughter, Evangeline, Hope. So I’ve had to pass my powers and strengths onto a mentor. "
Looking at the Wikipedia page of the movie, Evangeline Lilly, who plays the daughter of Hank and Janet, says her character was raised by two superheroes. But there's not mention of Janet in the cast. So...nothing really known.
So it definitely sounds like Janet is dead due to an accident and Hank himself is permanently injured, hence Scott Lang becoming Ant-Man.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:27 AM on January 7, 2015
Dammit I love Paul Rudd but there's no way this works.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:28 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:28 AM on January 7, 2015
I do hope the rumors that the film ends with Ant-Man hanging off the side of a building with a giant fungal growth protruding from the back of his head are just internet hot air.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:33 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:33 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's funny reading comments talking about Ant-Man like he's some obscure, minor Marvel character. When I was collecting comics in the 1970s, he was extremely well-known, a founding member of the Avengers, had his own book, guest starring all over the place. I'm glad they're re-imagining the character somewhat (heroic wife-beater, really?), but I wish they'd gone further and done a full "Ant-Man & The Wasp" movie, using a Nick & Nora Charles baseline.
The biggest problem I see with Marvel movies/shows (and in this I'm including the Sony/Fox lines as well) is the villains. Rarely have they done the big villains right (Magneto, Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Loki), and the secondary villains have to be done incredibly well for it to work (HYDRA, Winter Soldier, Red Skull). Most times they've used pretty mediocre villains (Ronan, Iron Monger, Whiplash, frost giants, Sandman, Abomination, uhhhh... whoever's been in the dozen Wolverine movies) with mixed results, or taken great villains (Dr. Doom, Galactus, Venom) and totally screwed them up.
I trust they've got Ultron right - great actor, credible power threat, excellent backstory (albeit altered from the source, but that's OK - anything that makes Stark an ass is fine in my books) - so I expect Avengers will be enjoyable. This one? We've got a mediocre villain (Yellowjacket) working against it, so it's going to have to be a strong character story to succeed. There's hints of that in this trailer, which gives me hope.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:38 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
The biggest problem I see with Marvel movies/shows (and in this I'm including the Sony/Fox lines as well) is the villains. Rarely have they done the big villains right (Magneto, Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus, Loki), and the secondary villains have to be done incredibly well for it to work (HYDRA, Winter Soldier, Red Skull). Most times they've used pretty mediocre villains (Ronan, Iron Monger, Whiplash, frost giants, Sandman, Abomination, uhhhh... whoever's been in the dozen Wolverine movies) with mixed results, or taken great villains (Dr. Doom, Galactus, Venom) and totally screwed them up.
I trust they've got Ultron right - great actor, credible power threat, excellent backstory (albeit altered from the source, but that's OK - anything that makes Stark an ass is fine in my books) - so I expect Avengers will be enjoyable. This one? We've got a mediocre villain (Yellowjacket) working against it, so it's going to have to be a strong character story to succeed. There's hints of that in this trailer, which gives me hope.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:38 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
What's next in the Indie Comedy --> Comic Book casting frenzy? Michael Showalter and Michael Ian Black and as Mark Trail and his St. Bernard? Eric Andre as Impossible Man? The Cast of Wondershowzen as Powerpack?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:39 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:39 AM on January 7, 2015
Eh, I'm willing to see how this plays out. There's hardly a movie that Paul Rudd doesn't redeem for me, and I actually would like to see a smaller (see what I did there?) Marvel movie, where the stakes aren't quite so high and the scope isn't quite so epic. I'd be interested to see how this fits in within the "rules" of the MCU.
posted by KingEdRa at 6:40 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 6:40 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Rhetta as Luba, Mayor of Palomar. Anna Kendrick as Hopey.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:47 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:47 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's funny reading comments talking about Ant-Man like he's some obscure, minor Marvel character. When I was collecting comics in the 1970s, he was extremely well-known, a founding member of the Avengers, had his own book, guest starring all over the place.
GhostintheMachine
Eh, Pym was always someone who ran with the A-listers but was never an A-lister himself. He's never had the profile the other major Avengers or characters like Spider-man have.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:49 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
GhostintheMachine
Eh, Pym was always someone who ran with the A-listers but was never an A-lister himself. He's never had the profile the other major Avengers or characters like Spider-man have.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:49 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
It feels like they are shuffling around the story-pieces to avoid the story-elephant in the room of Domestic Abuser Ant-Man, which I can't really fault Marvel for. Removing one of the better pieces, Jan, was apparently their quite-faulty solution. Not that Hank couldn't abuse his daughter Hope instead, but oh well. Of course if Marvel were really thinking outside the box, they could make Jan the brilliant slightly-mad scientist/fashionista and make Hank nonexistent.
But then again I was thrilled by the non-inclusion of the "real" (racist Yellow Peril caricature) Mandarin in Iron Man 3, and some fanboys are STILL whining about that. Apparently Marvel thought angry fanboys would whine less about the (apparent) non-inclusion of Jan, because angry fanboys suck.
I hope MCU Hope is a fantastic character in her own right anyway. I like that Ant-Man is focusing on the hero-as-parent and father/daughter relationship stories of Scott/Cassie and Hank/Hope. It's another movie I can drag my dad with me to see and ugly-cry through the emotional family bits. (See also re: dragging my mom to see Brave. I LOVE YOU MOMMY PLEASE DON'T TURN INTO A BEAR)
posted by nicebookrack at 6:53 AM on January 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
But then again I was thrilled by the non-inclusion of the "real" (racist Yellow Peril caricature) Mandarin in Iron Man 3, and some fanboys are STILL whining about that. Apparently Marvel thought angry fanboys would whine less about the (apparent) non-inclusion of Jan, because angry fanboys suck.
I hope MCU Hope is a fantastic character in her own right anyway. I like that Ant-Man is focusing on the hero-as-parent and father/daughter relationship stories of Scott/Cassie and Hank/Hope. It's another movie I can drag my dad with me to see and ugly-cry through the emotional family bits. (See also re: dragging my mom to see Brave. I LOVE YOU MOMMY PLEASE DON'T TURN INTO A BEAR)
posted by nicebookrack at 6:53 AM on January 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
The problem is that outside of Loki the MCU just doesn't have access to most of the good villains of the 616 Universe.
Doom- Fox has him
Magneto- stuck with the X-men
Kingpin- rights only just returned to Marvel
So you are stuck with Thanos and Ultron especially due to Ronan being killed off prematurely and Hugo Weaving not wanting to do Red Skull again.
I'm assuming Kang is pretty much off limits due to him being almost incomprehensible in terms of how to actually make him work in the context of the MCU.
posted by vuron at 6:55 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Doom- Fox has him
Magneto- stuck with the X-men
Kingpin- rights only just returned to Marvel
So you are stuck with Thanos and Ultron especially due to Ronan being killed off prematurely and Hugo Weaving not wanting to do Red Skull again.
I'm assuming Kang is pretty much off limits due to him being almost incomprehensible in terms of how to actually make him work in the context of the MCU.
posted by vuron at 6:55 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's hardly a movie that Paul Rudd doesn't redeem for me, and I actually would like to see a smaller (see what I did there?) Marvel movie, where the stakes aren't quite so high and the scope isn't quite so epic.
The official premise involves saving the world: "Thief Scott Lang must aid his mentor Dr. Hank Pym in safeguarding the mystery of the Ant-Man technology – which allows its user to decrease in size but increase in strength – from various new threats, and plot a heist that will save the Earth."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:58 AM on January 7, 2015
The official premise involves saving the world: "Thief Scott Lang must aid his mentor Dr. Hank Pym in safeguarding the mystery of the Ant-Man technology – which allows its user to decrease in size but increase in strength – from various new threats, and plot a heist that will save the Earth."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:58 AM on January 7, 2015
The diminutive Ant-man is my favorite character in the Lego Marvel Superheroes game (the perpetually self-exploding Green Goblin is a reasonably close second.) Still no real interest in seeing this movie, though.
posted by malocchio at 7:03 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by malocchio at 7:03 AM on January 7, 2015
What's kind of unfortunate about the whole Hank Pym = Wifebeater is that Jim Shooter never actually intended to be his character arc but the artist messed up the panel and they didn't have time to correct it. But ever since it's been Hank "Wifebeater" Pym in just about every universe.
Of course Ultimates Pym was/is a total monster.
posted by vuron at 7:03 AM on January 7, 2015
Of course Ultimates Pym was/is a total monster.
posted by vuron at 7:03 AM on January 7, 2015
I found the teaser rather underwhelming as well and I hope the full trailer does a better job of catching one's imagination and inspiring folks to go see it. As is, the teaser seemed to juggle a few things at once, "Look, it's Michael Douglas! Look, it's Paul Rudd!" and then at the end in a couple sporadic seconds of scenes, "Oh, what is Ant-Man? He shrinks! And flies on insects!" The "power" of the suit just wasn't conveyed really, "Oh, it gets small? That's....not really interesting," versus the increase in strength and any imaginative use of beckoned insects. Between these three things was kind of hectic filler that offered a vague idea of what the movie was about.
In short, where something in the teaser should have teased adequately enough to make me want to go see the movie, nothing really did so.
posted by Atreides at 7:03 AM on January 7, 2015
In short, where something in the teaser should have teased adequately enough to make me want to go see the movie, nothing really did so.
posted by Atreides at 7:03 AM on January 7, 2015
Didn't Ant-Man beat his wife? I doubt they'll have that in the film.
posted by Renoroc at 7:09 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by Renoroc at 7:09 AM on January 7, 2015
Hugo Weaving not wanting to do Red Skull again.
It's a dude in a skull mask. Anybody can play him.
posted by empath at 7:11 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's a dude in a skull mask. Anybody can play him.
posted by empath at 7:11 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
There is one thing they could have put in this trailer that would have gotten me on board immediately and that thing is Swarm, the Nazi made of bees.
A thousand times yes. One of my favorite moments in the Marvel Universe is the bit in Runaways where the teen heroes are fighting Swarm, and mainly just bewildered and irritated about the fact that a Nazi made of bees has no relevance to their generation or their crimefighting project.
I want to like this - the Edgar Wright stuff about combining the Scott Land and Eric o'Grady Ant-Men seemed interesting. I was not alone, it seems, in getting sort of a Daredevil vibe off this trailer; it has the slightly awkward tonal weirdness of that film, whereas I think one of the achievements of the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been to make films that are funny and big/loud without feeling like a patchwork.
However it's 2 minutes, and even the less good/more fillery Marvel Studios movies have been pretty good so far, and Peyton Reed made Bring it On as well as Yes Man, so...
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:18 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
A thousand times yes. One of my favorite moments in the Marvel Universe is the bit in Runaways where the teen heroes are fighting Swarm, and mainly just bewildered and irritated about the fact that a Nazi made of bees has no relevance to their generation or their crimefighting project.
I want to like this - the Edgar Wright stuff about combining the Scott Land and Eric o'Grady Ant-Men seemed interesting. I was not alone, it seems, in getting sort of a Daredevil vibe off this trailer; it has the slightly awkward tonal weirdness of that film, whereas I think one of the achievements of the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been to make films that are funny and big/loud without feeling like a patchwork.
However it's 2 minutes, and even the less good/more fillery Marvel Studios movies have been pretty good so far, and Peyton Reed made Bring it On as well as Yes Man, so...
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:18 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
> "... never actually intended to be his character arc but the artist messed up the panel ..."
I never heard that particular story, but Marvel for much of its history worked on an artist/writer collaboration system where both were supposed to contribute equally to the story, rather than an artist simply carrying out the wishes of the writer. Quite a number of memorable moments in Marvel comics history, as a result, came from the artist drawing something and the writer going, "... well, OK then." Dark Phoenix destroying inhabited planets and becoming one of the universe's greatest mass murderers, I believe, was the artist's decision -- which in turn led to an editorial decision, rather than one from either writer or artist, that Phoenix could not become a hero again after that and had to die.
posted by kyrademon at 7:21 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I never heard that particular story, but Marvel for much of its history worked on an artist/writer collaboration system where both were supposed to contribute equally to the story, rather than an artist simply carrying out the wishes of the writer. Quite a number of memorable moments in Marvel comics history, as a result, came from the artist drawing something and the writer going, "... well, OK then." Dark Phoenix destroying inhabited planets and becoming one of the universe's greatest mass murderers, I believe, was the artist's decision -- which in turn led to an editorial decision, rather than one from either writer or artist, that Phoenix could not become a hero again after that and had to die.
posted by kyrademon at 7:21 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jim Shooter never actually intended to be his character arc but the artist messed up the panel and they didn't have time to correct it.
vuron
I really wish this would stop being repeated as gospel truth.
That's what Shooter said, 30 years after the fact. This article at Bleeding Cool rounds up what was said, and also includes the artist, Bob Hall's, response to Shooter's allegation.
Read what Hall says, which amounts to "Jim never said anything about this and I don't recall anything like this being said at the time, but uh yeah, I guess if he says so."
Shooter is fairly full of shit and likes to conveniently shirk responsibility for his awful stories decades later, so perhaps it's worth taking his declaration of innocence with a grain of salt.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:28 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
vuron
I really wish this would stop being repeated as gospel truth.
That's what Shooter said, 30 years after the fact. This article at Bleeding Cool rounds up what was said, and also includes the artist, Bob Hall's, response to Shooter's allegation.
Read what Hall says, which amounts to "Jim never said anything about this and I don't recall anything like this being said at the time, but uh yeah, I guess if he says so."
Shooter is fairly full of shit and likes to conveniently shirk responsibility for his awful stories decades later, so perhaps it's worth taking his declaration of innocence with a grain of salt.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:28 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's a dude in a skull mask. Anybody can play him.
Well, not a black dude.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:28 AM on January 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
Well, not a black dude.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:28 AM on January 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
IIRC Jim Shooter was the EiC during this period and the artist was a relatively new face to the scene so I doubt that they were considered equal partners.
Dark Phoenix saga is one of the better examples of the artist making a choice that led to a better storyline but there have also been a ton of really bad things happen when the artists went off the rails.
posted by vuron at 7:32 AM on January 7, 2015
Dark Phoenix saga is one of the better examples of the artist making a choice that led to a better storyline but there have also been a ton of really bad things happen when the artists went off the rails.
posted by vuron at 7:32 AM on January 7, 2015
West Coast Avengers scientific adventurer Pym > Scientist Supreme Pym > all other takes on the character
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I believe the Black Widow movie is called "Ghost in the Shell".
The Black Widow movie came out in 2014 and was, for some reason, called "Captain America: The Winter Soldier." It also featured some anodyne steroid dude-bro with a star on his chest. But for anyone with a pulse it was all about Agent Romanoff.
posted by The Bellman at 7:37 AM on January 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
The Black Widow movie came out in 2014 and was, for some reason, called "Captain America: The Winter Soldier." It also featured some anodyne steroid dude-bro with a star on his chest. But for anyone with a pulse it was all about Agent Romanoff.
posted by The Bellman at 7:37 AM on January 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
You don't think Scientific Adventurer Pym gets minuses to his score for wearing that godawful jumpsuit?
I mean it's not quite Members Only Jacket Avengers awful but it's pretty awful.
I still like that version of Pym but the Scientist Supreme version is kinda fun especially when he gets slapped down by Reed...
posted by vuron at 7:38 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean it's not quite Members Only Jacket Avengers awful but it's pretty awful.
I still like that version of Pym but the Scientist Supreme version is kinda fun especially when he gets slapped down by Reed...
posted by vuron at 7:38 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ant-Man: Because When all your top-tier franchise movie rights are already made or owned by other studios, you look at your back bench and see who has that Put me in, Coach! I'm ready to play look in their eye.
"Next up to the plate, playing Centerfield for Marvel Studios…"
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:40 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Next up to the plate, playing Centerfield for Marvel Studios…"
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:40 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hank Pym was the wife beater who created the evil robot. Scott Lang was the petty theif who succeeded him. Cassie Lang is his daughter who also ended up fighting evil as a teenager in Youbg Avengers.
I am glad that Hank Pym is sidelined but I'm kinda glad he's around. It's useful narratively to have a 'good guy' who is morally objectionable. But he's a very difficult character to handle and I've seen him written poorly in the comics (as with Frank Castle). It seems like some writers have a handle on that vibe and some don't.
Black Cap with flashbacks to WWII would be amazing, especially if they base it on the miniseries that came out about ten years ago. That was amazing (and would also provide another tie-in to a future Young Avengers)
Ant Man is just gonna get buried. Poor timing for it to have a shot.
I don't this this is unanticipated. I think they expect it to do decent business, not be a huge blockbuster, and set up future plot lines.
For 3/4 of this movie I was hoping my spouse would not be invoking his insect aversion to avoid accompanying me to see it in the theater, but then they broke out the ants, finally, and I was like, fine. Ok. That's a lot of ants. You don't have to come.
posted by bq at 7:43 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am glad that Hank Pym is sidelined but I'm kinda glad he's around. It's useful narratively to have a 'good guy' who is morally objectionable. But he's a very difficult character to handle and I've seen him written poorly in the comics (as with Frank Castle). It seems like some writers have a handle on that vibe and some don't.
Black Cap with flashbacks to WWII would be amazing, especially if they base it on the miniseries that came out about ten years ago. That was amazing (and would also provide another tie-in to a future Young Avengers)
Ant Man is just gonna get buried. Poor timing for it to have a shot.
I don't this this is unanticipated. I think they expect it to do decent business, not be a huge blockbuster, and set up future plot lines.
For 3/4 of this movie I was hoping my spouse would not be invoking his insect aversion to avoid accompanying me to see it in the theater, but then they broke out the ants, finally, and I was like, fine. Ok. That's a lot of ants. You don't have to come.
posted by bq at 7:43 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
ever since it's been Hank "Wifebeater" Pym in just about every universe
This happened from an unpleasant combination of the Wifebeater Hank image going viral with fans and of Marvel themselves not letting the idea go. Seriously, just by exaggerating Ultimate Hank Pym into an abusive monster, Marvel ensured that guilt-by-association is NEVER going to die. Any version of Hank Pym will be tainted with "When did Ant-Man stop beating his wife?" loaded questions from here on out.
In contrast, the comparatively much-more-recent Clone Saga had Peter Parker / Spider-Man freak out and smack his pregnant wife Mary Jane to the ground—one time, like Pym, and just as violently. But it was so out of character for Peter, and the Clone Saga was such a weird storyline anyway, that even before the Spider-Marriage was retconned/sold to the Devil (SIGH), fans and Marvel kinda mutually agreed that Peter hitting MJ never happened.
Maybe the image of Hank Pym as an abuser has stuck because Hank is more believably and consistently an asshole.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:43 AM on January 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
This happened from an unpleasant combination of the Wifebeater Hank image going viral with fans and of Marvel themselves not letting the idea go. Seriously, just by exaggerating Ultimate Hank Pym into an abusive monster, Marvel ensured that guilt-by-association is NEVER going to die. Any version of Hank Pym will be tainted with "When did Ant-Man stop beating his wife?" loaded questions from here on out.
In contrast, the comparatively much-more-recent Clone Saga had Peter Parker / Spider-Man freak out and smack his pregnant wife Mary Jane to the ground—one time, like Pym, and just as violently. But it was so out of character for Peter, and the Clone Saga was such a weird storyline anyway, that even before the Spider-Marriage was retconned/sold to the Devil (SIGH), fans and Marvel kinda mutually agreed that Peter hitting MJ never happened.
Maybe the image of Hank Pym as an abuser has stuck because Hank is more believably and consistently an asshole.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:43 AM on January 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
You know, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that editors had more control over a book (and could slap down egregiously stupid ideas) back when Jim Shooter was EiC, so I give him credit for that. Of course, when the stupid ideas come from the EiC, *cough*BrandNewDay*cough*. I guess you're screwed.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:47 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by entropicamericana at 7:47 AM on January 7, 2015
Let's not forget the low visibility of Iron Man pre-movies. Said spouse has been a huge Iron Man fan since childhood* and when we met, I, a lifelong DC reader**, had never heard of Iron Man. He never expected an Iron Man movie to be made in his lifetime.
*also a Jets fan. Maybe they'll have a big turnaround too.
**not any more. DC lost me with absentee-father-Superman and didn't win me back with Super-Sexist-Relaunch.
posted by bq at 7:48 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
*also a Jets fan. Maybe they'll have a big turnaround too.
**not any more. DC lost me with absentee-father-Superman and didn't win me back with Super-Sexist-Relaunch.
posted by bq at 7:48 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think most Marvel Fans and Marvel itself have basically decided that Clone Saga never happened along with the Crossing and about 3-4 completely awful events. They won't explicitly deny them because that would be more of a hard retcon which is only used to erase decades of plot and character development for Spider-Man because Quesada believes that fans can't relate to a Peter with a decent life and relationship.
posted by vuron at 7:48 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by vuron at 7:48 AM on January 7, 2015
Maybe the image of Hank Pym as an abuser has stuck because Hank is more believably and consistently an asshole.
nicebookrack
I think it's also that Pym just doesn't have much else going for him as a character to counteract that moment. Spider-man has a thousand more iconic moments that come to mind when you think of the character, and as you say the storyline in which the incident occurred is already viewed as unusual for him, whereas Pym really doesn't have much else that stands out besides his other fuck-up of building Ultron.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:50 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
nicebookrack
I think it's also that Pym just doesn't have much else going for him as a character to counteract that moment. Spider-man has a thousand more iconic moments that come to mind when you think of the character, and as you say the storyline in which the incident occurred is already viewed as unusual for him, whereas Pym really doesn't have much else that stands out besides his other fuck-up of building Ultron.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:50 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
most Marvel Fans and Marvel itself have basically decided that Clone Saga never happened
Eh, I think the Clone Saga is making a comeback in fan affections. We're soon to hit peak '90s nostalgia, and for a lot of fans in ther late 20s/early 30s (like me!), the Clone Saga was among the first big comic stories we read, for better or worse. The characters have lingered. Clone Ben Reilly won a lot of fans as a more hopeful, fun Spidey while Peter Parker was stuck in a '90s angst coma; Ben is still widely loved as Scarlet Spider (just not the "real" Peter Parker), even though Ben's been dead now for longer than Jason Todd. And over the past 3-4 years, the evil '90s relic clone Kaine has been rebuilt as an enjoyable Grumpy Spider antihero.
The Clone Saga was flawed—uneven pacing, abrupt character and plot changes, '90S ANGST COMA—but it
probably wouldn't have been so widely hated in its day if it hadn't gone on for so long. It's easy to binge-read the comics now and see what's good beneath the bad. But at the time you had the storyline dragged out month by month, crossing over and through dozens of titles, for two years. TWO REAL-TIME YEARS. A few years ago, Marvel published a condensed adaptation of the "Real" Clone Saga that was surprisingly well-received by fans.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:36 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Eh, I think the Clone Saga is making a comeback in fan affections. We're soon to hit peak '90s nostalgia, and for a lot of fans in ther late 20s/early 30s (like me!), the Clone Saga was among the first big comic stories we read, for better or worse. The characters have lingered. Clone Ben Reilly won a lot of fans as a more hopeful, fun Spidey while Peter Parker was stuck in a '90s angst coma; Ben is still widely loved as Scarlet Spider (just not the "real" Peter Parker), even though Ben's been dead now for longer than Jason Todd. And over the past 3-4 years, the evil '90s relic clone Kaine has been rebuilt as an enjoyable Grumpy Spider antihero.
The Clone Saga was flawed—uneven pacing, abrupt character and plot changes, '90S ANGST COMA—but it
probably wouldn't have been so widely hated in its day if it hadn't gone on for so long. It's easy to binge-read the comics now and see what's good beneath the bad. But at the time you had the storyline dragged out month by month, crossing over and through dozens of titles, for two years. TWO REAL-TIME YEARS. A few years ago, Marvel published a condensed adaptation of the "Real" Clone Saga that was surprisingly well-received by fans.
posted by nicebookrack at 8:36 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Personally, I'd rather see Paul Rudd in a full length Celery Man movie.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:03 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:03 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Pym really doesn't have much else that stands out besides his other fuck-up of building Ultron.
To be fair, he also fucks up by building things to defeat ultron that then turn around and become evil (the whole Dimitrios thing).
Hank Pym is one of those characters that is trying to be a superhero, but somehow succeeds in being a decent supervillain instead. Which could be interesting plot line, I guess, but there'd be a lot of backstory to fill in.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:06 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
To be fair, he also fucks up by building things to defeat ultron that then turn around and become evil (the whole Dimitrios thing).
Hank Pym is one of those characters that is trying to be a superhero, but somehow succeeds in being a decent supervillain instead. Which could be interesting plot line, I guess, but there'd be a lot of backstory to fill in.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:06 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am so unexcited for this it is kind of painful. Not even a surprise cameo by EO Wilson could make this interesting.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:18 AM on January 7, 2015
posted by poffin boffin at 9:18 AM on January 7, 2015
ok that's a lie i would totally see this if eo wilson was in it
posted by poffin boffin at 9:19 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:19 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Apparently Marvel thought angry fanboys would whine less about the (apparent) non-inclusion of Jan, because angry fanboys suck.
I can't help but notice that you use "whine" and "non-inclusion" in the same sentence.
Inclusion is goddamn important. Thus far, the MCU has three super women -- Black Widow, Sif and Gamora -- and whatever they're doing on AoS, I guess. Yes, there's Agent Carter, and yes, we've seen Pepper step up...but in the end, Black Widow, Sif and Gamora are the only superwomen we've seen in the films. (And Thor's mom, I guess, whom they killed off to create some pathos despite Russo putting in a far better job than Anthony freakin' Hopkins of all people. Yay.)
They had a chance to bring in the woman who actually ran the Avengers for the longest freakin' time, who was there at the team's founding, and who has been a prominent part of the team in pretty much all the pre-cinematic comics and cartoons and what have you. And they didn't, because they wanted to "salvage" Hank Pym, who's only real appeal as a character is that he's totally unsympathetic.
Seriously. The message here is that Great Female Character is of lesser importance than Complicated Lesser Male Character.
Fuck everyone involved in that decision.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:37 AM on January 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
I can't help but notice that you use "whine" and "non-inclusion" in the same sentence.
Inclusion is goddamn important. Thus far, the MCU has three super women -- Black Widow, Sif and Gamora -- and whatever they're doing on AoS, I guess. Yes, there's Agent Carter, and yes, we've seen Pepper step up...but in the end, Black Widow, Sif and Gamora are the only superwomen we've seen in the films. (And Thor's mom, I guess, whom they killed off to create some pathos despite Russo putting in a far better job than Anthony freakin' Hopkins of all people. Yay.)
They had a chance to bring in the woman who actually ran the Avengers for the longest freakin' time, who was there at the team's founding, and who has been a prominent part of the team in pretty much all the pre-cinematic comics and cartoons and what have you. And they didn't, because they wanted to "salvage" Hank Pym, who's only real appeal as a character is that he's totally unsympathetic.
Seriously. The message here is that Great Female Character is of lesser importance than Complicated Lesser Male Character.
Fuck everyone involved in that decision.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:37 AM on January 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
Nicebookrack wasn't saying Jan's erasure isn't important, she was saying Marvel expected to get away from it. This is pretty damn obvious from the line of hers that you quoted.
Honestly, I'm not sure they were wrong. #JanetVanCrime didn't provoke nearly the uproar of the Mandarin, as nicebookrack cited, or that casting Idris Elba as Heimdall did.
posted by kagredon at 9:48 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I'm not sure they were wrong. #JanetVanCrime didn't provoke nearly the uproar of the Mandarin, as nicebookrack cited, or that casting Idris Elba as Heimdall did.
posted by kagredon at 9:48 AM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
. And they didn't, because they wanted to "salvage" Hank Pym, who's only real appeal as a character is that he's totally unsympathetic.
Do you have a link where Marvel or Edgar Wright or Payton Reed allude to this?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:52 AM on January 7, 2015
Do you have a link where Marvel or Edgar Wright or Payton Reed allude to this?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:52 AM on January 7, 2015
Best take on the poster.
Trailer: big meh. I don't know that I've seen Paul Rudd in a movie ever and I thought Chris Pratt's cut-rate Han Solo schtick in GOTG wore thin pretty quickly, so hearing that he's likely to take the role that way kills my interest in what otherwise might be a moderately fun heist movie. This movie is likely to be the first Marvel outing I skip.
posted by immlass at 10:14 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Trailer: big meh. I don't know that I've seen Paul Rudd in a movie ever and I thought Chris Pratt's cut-rate Han Solo schtick in GOTG wore thin pretty quickly, so hearing that he's likely to take the role that way kills my interest in what otherwise might be a moderately fun heist movie. This movie is likely to be the first Marvel outing I skip.
posted by immlass at 10:14 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm, er, hoping that Hope turns out to be Janet by another name, just generation-flipped, but nothing about this movie has me super-optimistic.
(She's also one of the best things about the very good Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:15 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
(She's also one of the best things about the very good Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes animated series)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:15 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Considering we've had two Ghost Rider movies, an Elektra movie, a Howard the Duck movie, three Blade movies, and two Punisher movies already, I think the idea that we're plumbing the dregs of Marvel lore by doing a character with half a century of stories and was an Avenger before Captain America joined the team is a little ridiculous.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:25 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:25 AM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
FYI, if you're interested in checking out comics with the character Scott Lang without committing to an actual Ant-Man series, try the 2-volume run of FF by MeFi fave Matt "Hawkguy" Fraction. Scott, She-Hulk, Medusa the Inhuman Queen, and popstar Darla Deering agree to take over as the Fantastic Four for five minutes while Reed Richards et al make a quick interdimensional trip. Of course the FF don't come back, and Scott et al get stuck with the FF responsibilities while they're waiting. It's a funny, sweet, offbeat little book, and Scott gets to grind Doctor Doom into quivering emotional jello. Good times!
posted by nicebookrack at 10:49 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 10:49 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I bet the discussion of the development process of this film the years from now when everything has come out will be fascinating.
posted by Artw at 11:18 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:18 AM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do you have a link where Marvel or Edgar Wright or Payton Reed allude to this?
I do not. Nor have I seen any explanation for why Jan has been passed over.
Forgive me if I have seen a pattern of comic book films passing over the women they might otherwise include.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2015
I do not. Nor have I seen any explanation for why Jan has been passed over.
Forgive me if I have seen a pattern of comic book films passing over the women they might otherwise include.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:39 AM on January 7, 2015
Forgive me if I have seen a pattern of comic book films passing over the women they might otherwise include.
Sure, but The Avenger's movie didn't include Ant-Man or Wasp and inserted Captain America and Black Widow as founding members. So getting hung about the Wasp not being in Ant-Man seems a bit odd, but whatever floats your boat.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:53 AM on January 7, 2015
Sure, but The Avenger's movie didn't include Ant-Man or Wasp and inserted Captain America and Black Widow as founding members. So getting hung about the Wasp not being in Ant-Man seems a bit odd, but whatever floats your boat.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:53 AM on January 7, 2015
They really should do a She-Hulk TV series.
Not only would it be a lot of fun, but it's a great way to introduce a huge range of Marvel characters, from the famous to the obscure, as she tackles her cases. You could get ridiculous characters on-screen like Stilt-Man and The Trapster (aka Paste-Pot Pete) each week without the budget commitment of a movie.
posted by Sangermaine at 12:00 PM on January 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
Not only would it be a lot of fun, but it's a great way to introduce a huge range of Marvel characters, from the famous to the obscure, as she tackles her cases. You could get ridiculous characters on-screen like Stilt-Man and The Trapster (aka Paste-Pot Pete) each week without the budget commitment of a movie.
posted by Sangermaine at 12:00 PM on January 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
Just forget Ant-Man and put your enthusiasm behind Squirrel Girl. Enough backing and she can shove her way into the MCU and I suspect Ryan North has a movie outline in his back pocket right now.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:03 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:03 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
And it's not as if they don't have an amazing series outline already from the Dan Slott books.
Speaking of She-Hulk, the current comics are quite good!
posted by bq at 12:07 PM on January 7, 2015
Speaking of She-Hulk, the current comics are quite good!
posted by bq at 12:07 PM on January 7, 2015
Avenger's movie didn't include Ant-Man or Wasp and inserted Captain America and Black Widow as founding members. So getting hung about the Wasp not being in Ant-Man seems a bit odd
We were angry about the absence of Wasp in The Avengers, too! We can get angry more than once, or remain angry, about the lack of Avengers and other superheroes who are women.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:09 PM on January 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
We were angry about the absence of Wasp in The Avengers, too! We can get angry more than once, or remain angry, about the lack of Avengers and other superheroes who are women.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:09 PM on January 7, 2015 [8 favorites]
Skipping Jan is a massive blunder for sure, even from a cold-blooded, cynical marketing point of view. They change the characters' costumes for every movie so there's a new batch of action figures to sell; Janet Van Dyne was known to change her Wasp costume from issue to issue because she always had a new idea. But yeah, no use for her in the MCU, move along please.
Hell, it's par for the course right now I suppose. What's her current state in the Marvel multiverse? Exploded in the 616, freaking eaten in the Ultimate and the cartoon she was on cancelled? This is a foundational, Stan & Jack pedigree Marvel character. I don't get why she's treated so shabbily.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:21 PM on January 7, 2015
Hell, it's par for the course right now I suppose. What's her current state in the Marvel multiverse? Exploded in the 616, freaking eaten in the Ultimate and the cartoon she was on cancelled? This is a foundational, Stan & Jack pedigree Marvel character. I don't get why she's treated so shabbily.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:21 PM on January 7, 2015
I don't get why she's treated so shabbily.
As I've mentioned elsewhere: Old Marvel is tons of great plot ideas/outlines but painfully stiff dialogue and less than thrilling action sequences. New Marvel is wonderfully fresh dialogue & characterization, much more compelling action, and plotlines that are just built of Who the Hell Thought This Was a Good Idea?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2015
As I've mentioned elsewhere: Old Marvel is tons of great plot ideas/outlines but painfully stiff dialogue and less than thrilling action sequences. New Marvel is wonderfully fresh dialogue & characterization, much more compelling action, and plotlines that are just built of Who the Hell Thought This Was a Good Idea?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2015
We were angry about the absence of Wasp in The Avengers, too!
Ok, fair enough. Still was an awesome movie without her, so...yeah.
Which no doubt sucks if you really like the character, but I view as just something that happens in terms of translating comic books to screens. Everything is on the change block, so all sorts of changes occur.
They change the characters' costumes for every movie so there's a new batch of action figures to sell; Janet Van Dyne was known to change her Wasp costume from issue to issue because she always had a new idea.
If they had included the Wasp with these personality traits they would have gotten flack for making her stereo-typically feminine.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2015
Ok, fair enough. Still was an awesome movie without her, so...yeah.
Which no doubt sucks if you really like the character, but I view as just something that happens in terms of translating comic books to screens. Everything is on the change block, so all sorts of changes occur.
They change the characters' costumes for every movie so there's a new batch of action figures to sell; Janet Van Dyne was known to change her Wasp costume from issue to issue because she always had a new idea.
If they had included the Wasp with these personality traits they would have gotten flack for making her stereo-typically feminine.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2015
She's literally a fashion designer though. That's like, her day job. She owned the company, even! The capitalist heroes (Iron Man, Batman) seem to do great in the movies. Ignoring her strikes me as a huge lost opportunity.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:40 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Feminine doesn't have to mean bad. For instance, Felicity Smoak on "Arrow" and Cordelia Chase on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are both very popular characters in geek media who openly love high fashion and clothes.
Even in the MCU, Pepper Potts is VERY popular—probably more popular than the comic character—and Pepper always dresses in stylishly feminine couture. There's an entire scene in the first Iron Man about how she bought herself an expensive dress as her birthday present from Tony. And she's killed more Big Bads than he has.
There was a huge missed opportunity to either introduce Jan through Pepper's connections or to have them meet and bond over elegant clothes that are fire-and-acid-resistant.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:52 PM on January 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Even in the MCU, Pepper Potts is VERY popular—probably more popular than the comic character—and Pepper always dresses in stylishly feminine couture. There's an entire scene in the first Iron Man about how she bought herself an expensive dress as her birthday present from Tony. And she's killed more Big Bads than he has.
There was a huge missed opportunity to either introduce Jan through Pepper's connections or to have them meet and bond over elegant clothes that are fire-and-acid-resistant.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:52 PM on January 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
If they had included the Wasp with these personality traits they would have gotten flack for making her stereo-typically feminine.
Janet Van Dyne comes off as flighty (the wings are apparently made of metaphor). She's "girly." She's a clotheshorse, she can be emotional, she's fashion-conscious and sometimes giggly and likes to shop.
She also led the team. She had a great head for business and ran in big-money circles. She "played with the big boys" and had other big, strong, natural leader men take orders from her without question. She held it together in moments of crisis, even in the face of things like the horrific dissolution of her marriage happening right in front of her co-workers. She knew when to take charge, when to defer to others, and she knew how to find solutions to problems that others didn't see.
It is possible for a woman to be all these things.
I can understand her not making the cut for a crowded film like the Avengers. I cannot understand why in the hell she and so many other great characters have been passed over for fucking Ant-Man.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:55 PM on January 7, 2015 [13 favorites]
Janet Van Dyne comes off as flighty (the wings are apparently made of metaphor). She's "girly." She's a clotheshorse, she can be emotional, she's fashion-conscious and sometimes giggly and likes to shop.
She also led the team. She had a great head for business and ran in big-money circles. She "played with the big boys" and had other big, strong, natural leader men take orders from her without question. She held it together in moments of crisis, even in the face of things like the horrific dissolution of her marriage happening right in front of her co-workers. She knew when to take charge, when to defer to others, and she knew how to find solutions to problems that others didn't see.
It is possible for a woman to be all these things.
I can understand her not making the cut for a crowded film like the Avengers. I cannot understand why in the hell she and so many other great characters have been passed over for fucking Ant-Man.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:55 PM on January 7, 2015 [13 favorites]
Jan: "No capes."
posted by The Whelk at 12:56 PM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 12:56 PM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
comes off as flighty
a clotheshorse
can be emotional
fashion-conscious
sometimes giggly
likes to shop
Oh hey, I found Tony Stark!
posted by nicebookrack at 1:14 PM on January 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
a clotheshorse
can be emotional
fashion-conscious
sometimes giggly
likes to shop
Oh hey, I found Tony Stark!
posted by nicebookrack at 1:14 PM on January 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
It is possible for a woman to be all these things.
I completely agree and meant no disrespect to the idea or the character.
My point was simply that no matter what they would have done, Marvel probably would have gotten flak for using/not using the Wasp.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:16 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I completely agree and meant no disrespect to the idea or the character.
My point was simply that no matter what they would have done, Marvel probably would have gotten flak for using/not using the Wasp.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:16 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
To explain even further, I thoroughly enjoyed the Avengers movie, while cheerfully admitting that having more than one woman on the team would have been nice. But Black Widow was such an excellent single choice and Johannsen did a fantastic job with the character.
I'm glad to hear that more major roles for women are happening for Age of Ultron, am delighted about the number of excellent female characters on Agents of Shield and loving the Agent Carter series.
In short, Wasp the character may be loss for the studio (and a unnecessary one), but I'm pretty pleased with how Marvel has been handling female and minority characters. Things could be better sure and sooner, but they do seem to be steadily improving.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:27 PM on January 7, 2015
I'm glad to hear that more major roles for women are happening for Age of Ultron, am delighted about the number of excellent female characters on Agents of Shield and loving the Agent Carter series.
In short, Wasp the character may be loss for the studio (and a unnecessary one), but I'm pretty pleased with how Marvel has been handling female and minority characters. Things could be better sure and sooner, but they do seem to be steadily improving.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:27 PM on January 7, 2015
am delighted about the number of excellent female characters on Agents of Shield
Oh man, big time. The addition of Mockingbird made me so freaking happy. She's under utilized in the comics (and was dead for way too long) so it's great to see her whipping ass on TV week to week. Fingers crossed that, long term, she gets to go full superhero and wear some version of the slick post Secret Invasion costume (that is, the version with pants).
And that's not even getting into full series for Agent Carter and Jessica freaking Jones! In a post Rocket Raccoon world, I might even let myself hope to see Cloak & Dagger onscreen someday.
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:23 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh man, big time. The addition of Mockingbird made me so freaking happy. She's under utilized in the comics (and was dead for way too long) so it's great to see her whipping ass on TV week to week. Fingers crossed that, long term, she gets to go full superhero and wear some version of the slick post Secret Invasion costume (that is, the version with pants).
And that's not even getting into full series for Agent Carter and Jessica freaking Jones! In a post Rocket Raccoon world, I might even let myself hope to see Cloak & Dagger onscreen someday.
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:23 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is this going to have Doctor Cockroach in it? Is there even a Doctor Cockroach?
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:23 PM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:23 PM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
(eh, I guess the Mockingbird suit kinda happened already and I hardly noticed. Straps instead of buttons, looks like. I'm doing that nerd nitpicking thing I hate right now, shutting up.)
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:37 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:37 PM on January 7, 2015
running order squabble fest: " Peyton Reed made Bring it On as well as Yes Man, so..."
Down With Love you forgot Down With Love.
I have a small hope that this trailer completely missed the tone of the movie and it's actually wall-to-wall montage sequences and dance numbers.
posted by RobotHero at 2:56 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Down With Love you forgot Down With Love.
I have a small hope that this trailer completely missed the tone of the movie and it's actually wall-to-wall montage sequences and dance numbers.
posted by RobotHero at 2:56 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
A Movie for Ants in a Centre for Ants: that's how you get Ants. If this movie doesn't have Adam in it, or even any Antmusic in it, I'll be disappointed.
posted by Zack_Replica at 3:26 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by Zack_Replica at 3:26 PM on January 7, 2015
Down With Love you forgot Down With Love.
Ok so knowing that this director made that movie has me kind of excited because Down With Love is one of the most underrated movies ever made.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:13 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ok so knowing that this director made that movie has me kind of excited because Down With Love is one of the most underrated movies ever made.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:13 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is still possibly a Marvel executive in charge of not letting Peyton Reed have any fun, and that trailer doesn't give much of a sense that they let him do his thing.
The marketing department is going to see "underrated" as a bad thing. And perhaps that's understandable. The question is how much did they keep their hands out of the movie itself.
posted by RobotHero at 4:25 PM on January 7, 2015
The marketing department is going to see "underrated" as a bad thing. And perhaps that's understandable. The question is how much did they keep their hands out of the movie itself.
posted by RobotHero at 4:25 PM on January 7, 2015
If we do ever get any crossover action directed from Agents of SHIELD toward the films, please let it include Ming Na as Agent May kicking ass on the big screen. Shiny party dress encouraged but not required.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:52 PM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 5:52 PM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Down With Love is one of the most underrated movies ever made.
Actually that kind of makes me wish it was set in the late 60s.
posted by The Whelk at 6:02 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Actually that kind of makes me wish it was set in the late 60s.
posted by The Whelk at 6:02 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh man, if only. That's like my pony request for the MCU, a 1960s throwback movie. Agents of Atlas, Howard Stark and the Contessa Valentina Allegra de la Fontaine.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:18 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by jason_steakums at 6:18 PM on January 7, 2015
Man, that Ming Na versus Ming Na scene just reminded me how much I'd like to see a Marvel movie budget applied to Agents of SHIELD. It really has come on a lot since that awkward first 14 episodes or so.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:22 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:22 PM on January 7, 2015
If we do ever get any crossover action directed from Agents of SHIELD toward the films, please let it include Ming Na as Agent May kicking ass on the big screen.
That would certainly be enough to bring me.
I cannot understand why in the hell she and so many other great characters have been passed over for fucking Ant-Man.
That really is vexing, particularly because I would rather have a Wasp movie than one that may expect me to root for Hank Pym at any point. I don't read a lot of comics, but she was my favorite in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - no angst, no moping, just actual joy at being a superhero and getting to do cool stuff.
posted by mordax at 6:25 PM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
That would certainly be enough to bring me.
I cannot understand why in the hell she and so many other great characters have been passed over for fucking Ant-Man.
That really is vexing, particularly because I would rather have a Wasp movie than one that may expect me to root for Hank Pym at any point. I don't read a lot of comics, but she was my favorite in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes - no angst, no moping, just actual joy at being a superhero and getting to do cool stuff.
posted by mordax at 6:25 PM on January 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Relevant to '60s discussion: Ant-Man #2 retro variant cover by Phil Noto oh my god
Also relevant but unrelated to above cover: ANT-MAN Hank Pym Fans Get to See Him Action in Official Movie Prelude Comic Set During the Cold War over which if it does not contain Janet I will actually scream
posted by nicebookrack at 6:35 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also relevant but unrelated to above cover: ANT-MAN Hank Pym Fans Get to See Him Action in Official Movie Prelude Comic Set During the Cold War over which if it does not contain Janet I will actually scream
posted by nicebookrack at 6:35 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
A Dissection Of All The Tiny Clues In The Ant-Man Trailer
posted by homunculus at 6:50 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by homunculus at 6:50 PM on January 7, 2015
Hey, the new Ant-Man comic by Nick Spencer turns out to be really good! It actually got me excited for the movie. It's a much better trailer for the movie than the trailer itself.
posted by painquale at 8:39 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by painquale at 8:39 PM on January 7, 2015
Agreed, the new Ant-Man is great! Funny and charming, with a great intro to Scott Lang. And if you read Superior Foes of Spider-Man, a familiar face shows up. And as a Lang fan I am doubly thrilled because Pnffvr Ynat vf nyvir!
But holy crap, $4.99 for one issue?! I think I'll be trade-waiting this series for a while.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:03 PM on January 7, 2015
But holy crap, $4.99 for one issue?! I think I'll be trade-waiting this series for a while.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:03 PM on January 7, 2015
33 pages though. That's at least 150% the length of other Marvel books. It definitely felt meatier. No way will future issues be that long, so I expect the price will drop.
posted by painquale at 9:08 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by painquale at 9:08 PM on January 7, 2015
The print edition does come with a "free" digital copy, which I use as an incentive to talk myself into buying more Marvel comics.
And the series is set in Miami! Yay! Between Florida and Scarlet Spider's recent stint in Houston, let's put somebody interesting in Atlanta and start a cadre of New South Superheroes!
Bonus Griping: Ant-Man filmed in and near Atlanta, right when I wasn't in town so that I could stalk production, but the movie is apparently set in San Francisco. Atlanta deserves cool superhero destruction too, Ant-Man! Atlanta has FIRE ANTS!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:31 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
And the series is set in Miami! Yay! Between Florida and Scarlet Spider's recent stint in Houston, let's put somebody interesting in Atlanta and start a cadre of New South Superheroes!
Bonus Griping: Ant-Man filmed in and near Atlanta, right when I wasn't in town so that I could stalk production, but the movie is apparently set in San Francisco. Atlanta deserves cool superhero destruction too, Ant-Man! Atlanta has FIRE ANTS!
posted by nicebookrack at 9:31 PM on January 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know, there is plenty of criticism to be had for the MCU and this trailer didn't get me excited for this movie the way that others have. But frankly, they've set such a consistently high bar for all of the MCU movies (though it took a couple of movies before they really hit their stride) that if I could just buy a lifetime subscription to the MCU and see every movie in the theater when it comes out, I would.
posted by VTX at 8:00 AM on January 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by VTX at 8:00 AM on January 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
You know, I really don't remember anyone expressing a lot of hope for GotG when all we had was the trailer, music or not. What I remember was a lot of people grousing that it was doomed to flop because nobody had ever heard of these Marvel B-listers, two of the characters were a raccoon and a tree and how was that ever going to work, and the campy look would go against everything they'd ever done. So overall I'm inclined to cut them some slack until we have the actual movie.
posted by localroger at 8:33 AM on January 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 8:33 AM on January 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yo, check out this redone trailer for Ant-Man, so much better! The changes are pretty small, you have to watch the hole thing, but it definitely gets you pumped up about the movie.
You know, I really don't remember anyone expressing a lot of hope for GotG when all we had was the trailer, music or not.
That's not how I remember the general reaction.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:57 AM on January 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
You know, I really don't remember anyone expressing a lot of hope for GotG when all we had was the trailer, music or not.
That's not how I remember the general reaction.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:57 AM on January 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Very interesting new plot details & pics at EW, where they clearly had fun with their headline font.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:05 PM on January 8, 2015
posted by nicebookrack at 12:05 PM on January 8, 2015
Brandon at least half the comments in that thread are of the form "even though it's probably gonna suck because X I'm going to watch it because Y," which is not exactly a consensus of ringing endorsement.
posted by localroger at 12:36 PM on January 8, 2015
posted by localroger at 12:36 PM on January 8, 2015
By my calculations, only 50% of metafilter users thinking something is terrible is equivalent to a Best Picture Oscar.
posted by empath at 1:03 PM on January 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by empath at 1:03 PM on January 8, 2015 [8 favorites]
In other news, Watch Captain America Help Walk National Treasure Betty White on Stage, because bearded Chris Evans being a gentleman is my kryptonite and should be yours.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:16 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 12:16 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm making a sound only dogs can hear.
posted by The Whelk at 12:55 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 12:55 PM on January 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
stalwart and steady and truuuuue
posted by nicebookrack at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nicebookrack at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
localroger, I'm not seeing many negative comments in that GotG trailer thread, MetaFilter seems to have been overwhelmingly delighted by the trailer and excitedly anticipating the movie.
posted by straight at 1:49 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 1:49 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
The diminutive Ant-man is my favorite character in the Lego Marvel Superheroes game (the perpetually self-exploding Green Goblin is a reasonably close second.)
Yeah, but even there, I think Wasp is even more fun. Flying around in LEGO Marvel Superheroes is really great (almost as good as it is in DCUniverse Online), and flying around as tiny LEGO Janet Van Dyne with her teensy little wings buzzing is even better.
(But I obviously need to spend more time playing as Green Goblin, as I don't think I've really seen much of his antics yet.)
(What is it about this thread that makes me want to use the small tag?)
posted by straight at 1:54 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but even there, I think Wasp is even more fun. Flying around in LEGO Marvel Superheroes is really great (almost as good as it is in DCUniverse Online), and flying around as tiny LEGO Janet Van Dyne with her teensy little wings buzzing is even better.
(But I obviously need to spend more time playing as Green Goblin, as I don't think I've really seen much of his antics yet.)
(What is it about this thread that makes me want to use the small tag?)
posted by straight at 1:54 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ant Man Solidarity!
posted by dinty_moore at 2:04 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dinty_moore at 2:04 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
you must be this * tall to ride the flying ants
posted by nicebookrack at 2:58 PM on January 9, 2015
posted by nicebookrack at 2:58 PM on January 9, 2015
When the movie comes out, let's petition Matt to automatically embed all comments in the Ant-Man Fanfare thread in triple-small-tags.
posted by painquale at 7:02 PM on January 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by painquale at 7:02 PM on January 9, 2015 [5 favorites]
New Avengers Trailer Arrives - Marvel's Avengers: Age of Ultron Trailer 2
posted by homunculus at 8:04 PM on January 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 8:04 PM on January 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
What Do Scarlett Johansson’s Scenes in the Age of Ultron Trailers Mean For Black Widow?
posted by homunculus at 8:05 PM on January 14, 2015
posted by homunculus at 8:05 PM on January 14, 2015
A Movie For Ants
Mants.
no......Half Man, Half Ant, all Terror.... its MANT!
posted by doogyrev at 2:07 AM on January 20, 2015
Mants.
no......Half Man, Half Ant, all Terror.... its MANT!
posted by doogyrev at 2:07 AM on January 20, 2015
Howard the Duck returns in Guardians Of The Galaxy comic book spin-off
posted by octothorpe at 1:45 PM on January 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 1:45 PM on January 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
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