The growing pains of U.S. soccer’s dominant supporter’s group
March 13, 2015 11:39 AM Subscribe
In less than a decade, the Outlaws have become become the biggest and most influential force in U.S. national team fan culture, and it’s experiencing some growing pains. What began as a small idea started by three affable friends in Nebraska has become a movement with more than 34,000 people paying $25 per year to join the club.
Its presence has transformed the atmosphere at U.S. matches ranging from World Cup qualifiers against Mexico to unimportant friendlies, amping up the noise coming from the stands and creating an advantage for the United States.
Players appreciate the support. “That’s a real atmosphere,” Landon Donovan said after the U.S. defeated Mexico 2–0 to earn a spot at the 2014 World Cup. “That’s what we face when we go away and it’s nice that other teams have to face it when they come here. We enjoy playing in front of a crowd like that and they certainly boosted us tonight.”
But spend enough time talking to fans of the United States national team and you begin to hear concerns about ugly displays of nationalism, racism, sexism, and other negative aspects that are cropping up at AO events. You hear Keith’s story, and others like it, again and again.
“It’s become its own monster,” U.S. goalie Tim Howard said of the fan support after the match in Columbus. He meant it as a compliment, a tribute to the increased backing the American team gets when it plays both at home and abroad, a growth that can be attributed directly to the success of the American Outlaws. But there’s also another monster lurking in the shadows—the sense that the heavy-drinking frat boy vibe is winning the battle for the soul of the Outlaws.
---------------
AO Phoenix and AO Lincoln Nebraska respond.
Its presence has transformed the atmosphere at U.S. matches ranging from World Cup qualifiers against Mexico to unimportant friendlies, amping up the noise coming from the stands and creating an advantage for the United States.
Players appreciate the support. “That’s a real atmosphere,” Landon Donovan said after the U.S. defeated Mexico 2–0 to earn a spot at the 2014 World Cup. “That’s what we face when we go away and it’s nice that other teams have to face it when they come here. We enjoy playing in front of a crowd like that and they certainly boosted us tonight.”
But spend enough time talking to fans of the United States national team and you begin to hear concerns about ugly displays of nationalism, racism, sexism, and other negative aspects that are cropping up at AO events. You hear Keith’s story, and others like it, again and again.
“It’s become its own monster,” U.S. goalie Tim Howard said of the fan support after the match in Columbus. He meant it as a compliment, a tribute to the increased backing the American team gets when it plays both at home and abroad, a growth that can be attributed directly to the success of the American Outlaws. But there’s also another monster lurking in the shadows—the sense that the heavy-drinking frat boy vibe is winning the battle for the soul of the Outlaws.
---------------
AO Phoenix and AO Lincoln Nebraska respond.
Is there a soccer country where some variety of hooliganism isn't part of the package? I say this as a soccer fan as well as someone who wants this to get better. Who can we look to?
posted by Navelgazer at 11:58 AM on March 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:58 AM on March 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
But spend enough time talking to fans of the United States national team and you begin to hear concerns about ugly displays of nationalism, racism, sexism, and other negative aspects that are cropping up at AO events
Good job, America! We've successfully imported all the key parts of international Football.
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:58 AM on March 13, 2015 [22 favorites]
Good job, America! We've successfully imported all the key parts of international Football.
posted by Tomorrowful at 11:58 AM on March 13, 2015 [22 favorites]
The tendency of US soccer to emulate worldwide (And Euro in particular) soccer culture has always baffled me.
From naming (Real Salt Lake? Really?) and "reworking" of chants (Rose City 'til I die, I'm looking at you) to endless of displays of tifo and choreographed jumping (Is there a term for this? Probably).
And of course, they've all got to have some Ultras with an official bar with an official beer.
It's just too much. Let the culture develop by itself, don't wholesale swallow some marketing rep's idea of what soccer fans should look and act like.
posted by madajb at 12:09 PM on March 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
From naming (Real Salt Lake? Really?) and "reworking" of chants (Rose City 'til I die, I'm looking at you) to endless of displays of tifo and choreographed jumping (Is there a term for this? Probably).
And of course, they've all got to have some Ultras with an official bar with an official beer.
It's just too much. Let the culture develop by itself, don't wholesale swallow some marketing rep's idea of what soccer fans should look and act like.
posted by madajb at 12:09 PM on March 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Now US fans can have the same experience going to a soccer game as an NFL game Europeans do.
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:09 PM on March 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:09 PM on March 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
It hasn't started a war here yet, so we're still lagging behind.
posted by maxsparber at 12:11 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 12:11 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Good job, America! We've successfully imported all the key parts of international Football.
Nah, we've still got a ways to go on bald-face institutional corruption.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:12 PM on March 13, 2015
Nah, we've still got a ways to go on bald-face institutional corruption.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:12 PM on March 13, 2015
Nah, we've still got a ways to go on bald-face institutional corruption.
Not to mention the level of violence still relegates US soccer fans to the level of rank amateurism (nsfw violence).
Affinity societies based on nationalist jingoism, the ranks of which are increasingly dominated by angry young men, assemble in beer halls. What could possibly go wrong with that scenario?
Keith felt differently. “I’m not going to call the cops because a guy touched my boobs on the way to handing me a beer,” she said.
Or in that one?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:15 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not to mention the level of violence still relegates US soccer fans to the level of rank amateurism (nsfw violence).
Affinity societies based on nationalist jingoism, the ranks of which are increasingly dominated by angry young men, assemble in beer halls. What could possibly go wrong with that scenario?
Keith felt differently. “I’m not going to call the cops because a guy touched my boobs on the way to handing me a beer,” she said.
Or in that one?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:15 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Affinity societies based on nationalist jingoism, the ranks of which are increasingly dominated by angry young men, assemble in beer halls. What could possibly go wrong with that scenario?
Well, you know who ELSE assembled in beer halls???
posted by kenko at 12:28 PM on March 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, you know who ELSE assembled in beer halls???
posted by kenko at 12:28 PM on March 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's just too much. Let the culture develop by itself, don't wholesale swallow some marketing rep's idea of what soccer fans should look and act like.
This is America, where lots of people have no idea how reality is supposed to be unless tv tells us. Let a culture develop by itself? Please. Why leave to chance what you can easily guide by marketing?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:37 PM on March 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is America, where lots of people have no idea how reality is supposed to be unless tv tells us. Let a culture develop by itself? Please. Why leave to chance what you can easily guide by marketing?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:37 PM on March 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
If the people behind American soccer were marketing geniuses, they'd be working with anything other than American soccer, let's be honest here.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:47 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Navelgazer at 12:47 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nah, we've still got a ways to go on bald-face institutional corruption.
You've got that one covered as well.
posted by Hartster at 12:54 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
You've got that one covered as well.
posted by Hartster at 12:54 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
how reality is supposed to be
Is there some natural state that soccer culture will adhere to if left to develop somehow absent of outside influences? Racism, sexism, and rampant national fervor are pretty terrible, of course, and I hate to see reports of those attitudes growing. I'm just wondering what you meant there. But I'm probably being too literal, ha.
If the people behind American soccer were marketing geniuses, they'd be working with anything other than American soccer, let's be honest here.
It's a potentially huge and largely untapped market, though, right?
posted by JenMarie at 12:54 PM on March 13, 2015
Is there some natural state that soccer culture will adhere to if left to develop somehow absent of outside influences? Racism, sexism, and rampant national fervor are pretty terrible, of course, and I hate to see reports of those attitudes growing. I'm just wondering what you meant there. But I'm probably being too literal, ha.
If the people behind American soccer were marketing geniuses, they'd be working with anything other than American soccer, let's be honest here.
It's a potentially huge and largely untapped market, though, right?
posted by JenMarie at 12:54 PM on March 13, 2015
Imitating other people (often in embarrassing ways) is how soccer spread. See David Goldblatt's world history of soccer (The Ball is Round), the English names of many clubs around the world (many making as much sense as Real Salt Lake), and the very intentional nationalist reaction to that in, for example, Germany and Italy that resulted in "native" terms like Tor and Calcio being used.
posted by Gnatcho at 1:07 PM on March 13, 2015
posted by Gnatcho at 1:07 PM on March 13, 2015
Well, you know who ELSE assembled in beer halls???
That was the point. A bunch of dudebros chanting nationalist slogans is part of that continuum of frightening human behaviour.
If the people behind American soccer were marketing geniuses, they'd be working with anything other than American soccer, let's be honest here.
In the runup to the 1994 World Cup in Atlanta, I attended an exhibition soccer game between the US and the (then-new) CIS at the Pontiac Silverdome.
Let me tell you - parking near the entrance was pretty easy to find. But that game would be way better attended now than it was back then.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:23 PM on March 13, 2015
That was the point. A bunch of dudebros chanting nationalist slogans is part of that continuum of frightening human behaviour.
If the people behind American soccer were marketing geniuses, they'd be working with anything other than American soccer, let's be honest here.
In the runup to the 1994 World Cup in Atlanta, I attended an exhibition soccer game between the US and the (then-new) CIS at the Pontiac Silverdome.
Let me tell you - parking near the entrance was pretty easy to find. But that game would be way better attended now than it was back then.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:23 PM on March 13, 2015
It's a potentially huge and largely untapped market, though, right?
I mean, I hope so. Soccer's what I follow most closely (Go Swans! Amunt! ¡Vamos United!) but it definitely hasn't caught much hold yet, outside of the USMNT, and only then during the World Cup.
I live in the center of Hipsterdom and it's only just catching on, really.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:26 PM on March 13, 2015
I mean, I hope so. Soccer's what I follow most closely (Go Swans! Amunt! ¡Vamos United!) but it definitely hasn't caught much hold yet, outside of the USMNT, and only then during the World Cup.
I live in the center of Hipsterdom and it's only just catching on, really.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:26 PM on March 13, 2015
One of the times I was in England we were hoping to attend a Fulham match but plans fell through. I'll be honest, as much as I wanted to go I was also concerned about being in the stands. Now I have the same misgivings about attending a match here at home.
posted by tommasz at 1:27 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tommasz at 1:27 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
The cynic in me things maybe soccer has finally arrived: Now US fans can have the same experience going to a soccer game as an NFL game.
There are some similarities to NFL culture and some differences. Both have a ton of drinking and frat boy type stuff and all the bad (and good) things that come with that, but NFL fans don't generally do anything in such an organized manner. There is less directed complicated chanting or singing so the bad behavior often comes from isolated pockets rather than an organized mob. You support your team by screaming incoherently at the top of your lungs while your team is on defense, not with a clever song. That doesn't make it any better or worse, just distinct. The possibility of being willing to chant something offensive may be just as present, it just doesn't get organized to occur as often.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:34 PM on March 13, 2015
There are some similarities to NFL culture and some differences. Both have a ton of drinking and frat boy type stuff and all the bad (and good) things that come with that, but NFL fans don't generally do anything in such an organized manner. There is less directed complicated chanting or singing so the bad behavior often comes from isolated pockets rather than an organized mob. You support your team by screaming incoherently at the top of your lungs while your team is on defense, not with a clever song. That doesn't make it any better or worse, just distinct. The possibility of being willing to chant something offensive may be just as present, it just doesn't get organized to occur as often.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:34 PM on March 13, 2015
I'll be honest, as much as I wanted to go I was also concerned about being in the stands.
Eh... Premier League crowds are completely tame these days. For the most part the traditional hooligan recruit (poor, lower working class) have been priced out the stadium.
posted by PenDevil at 1:35 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Eh... Premier League crowds are completely tame these days. For the most part the traditional hooligan recruit (poor, lower working class) have been priced out the stadium.
posted by PenDevil at 1:35 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
PL fans also can't drink within sight of the pitch, which isn't a model America's ever going to be in a hurry to embrace. I'm sure the bar crowds are more raucous.
I
posted by taterpie at 2:14 PM on March 13, 2015
I
posted by taterpie at 2:14 PM on March 13, 2015
PL fans also can't drink within sight of the pitch, which isn't a model America's ever going to be in a hurry to embrace.
Yeah, going to a match at the Emirates as an American was slightly surreal. No drinking in your seat, but there's a sportingbet kiosk in the stadium.
posted by asterix at 2:23 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, going to a match at the Emirates as an American was slightly surreal. No drinking in your seat, but there's a sportingbet kiosk in the stadium.
posted by asterix at 2:23 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Eh... Premier League crowds are completely tame these days. For the most part the traditional hooligan recruit (poor, lower working class) have been priced out the stadium.
That, and strong policing. Any trouble around English football is going to happen away from the stadium, these days. (And there generally isn't much compared to the old days, but on the other hand a Watford fan was critically injured a couple of days ago after being attacked).
posted by Pink Frost at 2:25 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
That, and strong policing. Any trouble around English football is going to happen away from the stadium, these days. (And there generally isn't much compared to the old days, but on the other hand a Watford fan was critically injured a couple of days ago after being attacked).
posted by Pink Frost at 2:25 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I now realize that I am doomed to see this same fight happen in every single one of my subcultures, and to see the same tired arguments trotted out each time.
At the very least, as Tanya Keith points out, women should be able to be members of AO and state their feelings honestly (the same way men would) without being on the receiving end of a Harassment Firehose. It’s true that and sexism are not the “fault” of AO; but without some care and enforcement, racism and sexism will be the reason why a group that is theoretically open to anybody consists of mainly white dudes in practice.
And even then, if AO management decides that they’re unwilling to enforce the sort of behavior that makes women feel comfortable as members, then they’re free to make that daft decision and leave it to someone else to create the next splinter supporters’ group.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:27 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
At the very least, as Tanya Keith points out, women should be able to be members of AO and state their feelings honestly (the same way men would) without being on the receiving end of a Harassment Firehose. It’s true that and sexism are not the “fault” of AO; but without some care and enforcement, racism and sexism will be the reason why a group that is theoretically open to anybody consists of mainly white dudes in practice.
And even then, if AO management decides that they’re unwilling to enforce the sort of behavior that makes women feel comfortable as members, then they’re free to make that daft decision and leave it to someone else to create the next splinter supporters’ group.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:27 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It has been appalling to see the comments on the piece and elsewhere, attacking Keith and others for daring to shine a light on the issue. "Look how they cherrypick the sexist incidents and forget all the good things!"
The article is about the sexist incidents within AO's events, folks. That's literally what it's about. Also, about racist chants and hostility to American citizens who support other teams. And a culture that fosters both in some chapters. That's not cherrypicking. That's reporting.
People responding with 'well yeah but that's ALL sports!" Yes, unfortunately it is. So fix YOUR sport, because that's where YOU are. But I'm preaching to the choir here!
posted by taterpie at 2:34 PM on March 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
The article is about the sexist incidents within AO's events, folks. That's literally what it's about. Also, about racist chants and hostility to American citizens who support other teams. And a culture that fosters both in some chapters. That's not cherrypicking. That's reporting.
People responding with 'well yeah but that's ALL sports!" Yes, unfortunately it is. So fix YOUR sport, because that's where YOU are. But I'm preaching to the choir here!
posted by taterpie at 2:34 PM on March 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
From joshers link:
***Note from AOPHX - American Outlaws Phoenix President Tony Hernandez regarding Anti-AO & Communist Slant Piece by Mexican Soccer Fan Noah Davis (who's also probably Canadian***
You know, if you can't even respond to a piece alleging your organization has a nationalistic and xenophobic bent without dropping three smears out the gate on your response piece maybe the article is onto something.
posted by Karaage at 2:55 PM on March 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
***Note from AOPHX - American Outlaws Phoenix President Tony Hernandez regarding Anti-AO & Communist Slant Piece by Mexican Soccer Fan Noah Davis (who's also probably Canadian***
You know, if you can't even respond to a piece alleging your organization has a nationalistic and xenophobic bent without dropping three smears out the gate on your response piece maybe the article is onto something.
posted by Karaage at 2:55 PM on March 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, even though I'm American, I tend to support the World Cup team with the most garish kit. Luckily, in 2014 Team USA's away uniform looked like a rocket pop.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:22 PM on March 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:22 PM on March 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, even though I'm American, I tend to support the World Cup team with the most garish kit.
You must've been a huge Jorge Campos fan.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:58 PM on March 13, 2015
You must've been a huge Jorge Campos fan.
posted by Ufez Jones at 4:58 PM on March 13, 2015
i don't get it i see a man wearing everyday casual wear such that i am wearing right now as i carve this thing i am calling ham for legal purposes
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:40 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:40 PM on March 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Damn right.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:21 PM on March 13, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 8:21 PM on March 13, 2015
***Note from AOPHX - American Outlaws Phoenix President Tony Hernandez regarding Anti-AO & Communist Slant Piece by Mexican Soccer Fan Noah Davis (who's also probably Canadian***
You know, if you can't even respond to a piece alleging your organization has a nationalistic and xenophobic bent without dropping three smears out the gate on your response piece maybe the article is onto something.
I see three compliments.
posted by srboisvert at 2:51 PM on March 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
You know, if you can't even respond to a piece alleging your organization has a nationalistic and xenophobic bent without dropping three smears out the gate on your response piece maybe the article is onto something.
I see three compliments.
posted by srboisvert at 2:51 PM on March 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
« Older Ladies kindly remove your hats | “Educated men are so impressive!” Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by k5.user at 11:51 AM on March 13, 2015