The Boxer and the Batterer
April 29, 2015 12:54 PM Subscribe
Floyd Mayweather is the best boxer of his generation, and a serial batterer. In the lead-up to the biggest fight of Mayweather's career, Louisa Thomas lays out the evidence for both claims, across multiple fights and multiple beatings, and grapples with the question: "What do you do with this?"
You could see it in the way he carried himself, in his preternatural patience, a floating stillness — even though he never stopped moving. He ducked and dipped, curled right and left, darted in and out, dropped his hands and raised them.
I saw my dad was on my mom and my mom said go to the ofice my dad was hiting her and when my dad left he took my phone and his friend was blocking the stairs. His friend name is James and my dad kick my mom and he told me to go in my room but I went to go get my mom's friend that live in our back house.
Related:
Melissa Jacobs: Mayweather-Pacquiao: why I cannot bring myself to watch boxing’s fight of the century
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:11 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Melissa Jacobs: Mayweather-Pacquiao: why I cannot bring myself to watch boxing’s fight of the century
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:11 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you watch, you are complicit.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:12 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:12 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
"What do you do with this?"
Laugh/cry?
Most boxers today are thugs or just trashy people; I personally believe the entire modern sport (along with all the "MMA" crap it's spawned) is trashy, vile, representative of the worst tendencies in humanity, and pay it no attention. That said, if people are surprised or faux-journalist-conflicted over the fact that someone who gets paid to beat up on people for a living is beating up on the people around him, then, uh, okay.
posted by resurrexit at 1:13 PM on April 29, 2015
Laugh/cry?
Most boxers today are thugs or just trashy people; I personally believe the entire modern sport (along with all the "MMA" crap it's spawned) is trashy, vile, representative of the worst tendencies in humanity, and pay it no attention. That said, if people are surprised or faux-journalist-conflicted over the fact that someone who gets paid to beat up on people for a living is beating up on the people around him, then, uh, okay.
posted by resurrexit at 1:13 PM on April 29, 2015
Fighting implies a struggle, overwhelming aggression — some desire, some wild need, to transfer a hurt from within onto something in the world. Boxing is different.
As if to "transfer a hurt from within onto something in the world" necessarily implies wild and uncontrolled passion.
Boxing is different.
Bullshit. Boxing is fighting. Boxers differ from one another. There's no contradiction between being an accomplished boxer and a vicious monster. You can also box and be a complete sportsman. Defenders of the sport need to stop trying assure the rest of us that the measure of a hero is their win/loss record.
posted by belarius at 1:20 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
As if to "transfer a hurt from within onto something in the world" necessarily implies wild and uncontrolled passion.
Boxing is different.
Bullshit. Boxing is fighting. Boxers differ from one another. There's no contradiction between being an accomplished boxer and a vicious monster. You can also box and be a complete sportsman. Defenders of the sport need to stop trying assure the rest of us that the measure of a hero is their win/loss record.
posted by belarius at 1:20 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
Mayweather is an unrepentant asshole who has ducked the only fighter who could possibly give credence to his greatness (boxers are measured more by the quality of their opponents than purely by the w/l record) until now, and now it's late i their careers and means less than it would have 6 or 8 yrs ago.
I will proudly pirate the fight in hopes that manny will give him the beatdown he deserves.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:29 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I will proudly pirate the fight in hopes that manny will give him the beatdown he deserves.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:29 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm happy to have no interest in sports. This is gross. "What do you do with this?" You don't write a 3,000 word promo piece for the fight under the twisted guise of a judgement of a bad man.
posted by altersego at 1:31 PM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by altersego at 1:31 PM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Most boxers today are thugs or just trashy people
I love watching the racism and classism come out in boxing threads.
Speaking of, can you even name 5 without googling?
posted by holybagel at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2015 [36 favorites]
I love watching the racism and classism come out in boxing threads.
Speaking of, can you even name 5 without googling?
posted by holybagel at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2015 [36 favorites]
Most boxers today are thugs or just trashy people
Yeah, like this jerk, a UNESCO worker with a Ph.D. who auctioned his Olympic gold medal to raise money for Ukrainian children.
Or, hell, Pacquaio himself, who went from living on the streets of Manila as a teenager to serving in the Philippine congress.
posted by box at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2015 [23 favorites]
Yeah, like this jerk, a UNESCO worker with a Ph.D. who auctioned his Olympic gold medal to raise money for Ukrainian children.
Or, hell, Pacquaio himself, who went from living on the streets of Manila as a teenager to serving in the Philippine congress.
posted by box at 1:36 PM on April 29, 2015 [23 favorites]
So, a homophobic, fundamentalist Christian vs a wife beater. I don't think I want to put any money into this.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:37 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:37 PM on April 29, 2015
Boxing has too much hype nowadays - it's too focused on presenting the biggest EVENT EVER.
This is why I like MMA so much better - UFC puts out a nice, well-produced, well-commentated product on a regular schedule. Furthermore, as a sport, it's simply far more exciting than conventional stand-up boxing - more unpredictable, greater variety of skills, more aggressive.
It's more personality driven and hype driven, whereas MMA is more corporate and managed. Not to say that it doesn't have its own mavericks with their own issues - witness the recent Jon Jones controversies.
posted by theorique at 1:43 PM on April 29, 2015
This is why I like MMA so much better - UFC puts out a nice, well-produced, well-commentated product on a regular schedule. Furthermore, as a sport, it's simply far more exciting than conventional stand-up boxing - more unpredictable, greater variety of skills, more aggressive.
It's more personality driven and hype driven, whereas MMA is more corporate and managed. Not to say that it doesn't have its own mavericks with their own issues - witness the recent Jon Jones controversies.
posted by theorique at 1:43 PM on April 29, 2015
Or, hell, Pacquaio himself, who went from living on the streets of Manila as a teenager to serving in the Philippine congress.
An absentee member of congress who speaks out against homosexuality and allegedly beats his girlfriend (and another member of congress).
posted by Cosine at 1:47 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
An absentee member of congress who speaks out against homosexuality and allegedly beats his girlfriend (and another member of congress).
posted by Cosine at 1:47 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
For people who have no interest in sports, it could help to think about the common discussion of "separating the art from the artist"; like, is it morally wrong to like Wagner? Okay, he's dead, so he's at least not seeing any of your money. What about "Let It Be" (produced by Phil Spector)? What about "Chinatown"?
It is also worth remembering that Mayweather consciously turned himself into a heel. If you're going to pay to watch this fight in the hope that he'll lose, you're playing straight into his hands.
posted by vogon_poet at 1:51 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
It is also worth remembering that Mayweather consciously turned himself into a heel. If you're going to pay to watch this fight in the hope that he'll lose, you're playing straight into his hands.
posted by vogon_poet at 1:51 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
There's so much bad in the best of us,
And so much good in the worst of us,
That it ill-behooves any of us,
To speak ill of the rest of us.
--Edward Guest
(Paraphrased)
posted by rankfreudlite at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
And so much good in the worst of us,
That it ill-behooves any of us,
To speak ill of the rest of us.
--Edward Guest
(Paraphrased)
posted by rankfreudlite at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Most boxers today are thugs or just trashy people
Nope.
posted by Ratio at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nope.
posted by Ratio at 1:53 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you believe watching the fight makes you morally complicit for Floyd Mayweather's sins, that's fine, but once you go down that road...do you stop watching Woody Allen movies? Roman Polanski films? Listening to Miles Davis? Again, if the answer is "yes" I wouldn't argue with you, but...where are you going to draw the line? Or, on preview, what vogon_poet said. The moral issues are perhaps more stark in Mayweather's case because you're literally paying to watch him punch other people.
Personally, my main beef with all of the big-money sports leagues these days is all the economic bullshit (public resources going towards private profit, tax breaks, etc.) they're mired in. I've seen the way the sausage is made, and it's gross.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:58 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
Personally, my main beef with all of the big-money sports leagues these days is all the economic bullshit (public resources going towards private profit, tax breaks, etc.) they're mired in. I've seen the way the sausage is made, and it's gross.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:58 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
i don't watch polanski films - but they were never to my taste. i stopped watching woody allen movies (which i adore) after dylan farrow's article. i seem to draw my line at alive/dead, so john lennon and miles davis squeak through - especially since most abusers abuse their families, so once they die a lot of times their victims get the royalties. i don't expect others to draw the lines where i do, but it's not ridiculous to draw the line somewhere.
sometimes i like to watch the fights - mma more than boxing these days - but i'll be skipping this one for sure.
posted by nadawi at 2:03 PM on April 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
sometimes i like to watch the fights - mma more than boxing these days - but i'll be skipping this one for sure.
posted by nadawi at 2:03 PM on April 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
I think it's a little different in that Mayweather's sport is basically a sanctioned version of the bad stuff he's accused of (beating people up). Paying someone millions of dollars for doing the exact thing we wish he didn't do, just in a different time and location, seems pretty questionable to me. But then again, I've never been into any kind of boxing or MMA, so who am I to talk?
posted by primethyme at 2:06 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by primethyme at 2:06 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
do you stop watching Woody Allen movies? Yes.
Roman Polanski films? Yes.
Listening to Miles Davis? No, because he's dead.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:08 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Roman Polanski films? Yes.
Listening to Miles Davis? No, because he's dead.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:08 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've seen enough modern boxing to know how this will end already. It'll go to the seventh or eighth round, Corporate Kane will run in and chokeslam Pacquiao, John Cena will run in and take Kane on and they'll do it all over again as a Fatal Four Way at Boxingmania.
...Wait, that's the _less_ fixed "sport." Carry on.
posted by delfin at 2:23 PM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
...Wait, that's the _less_ fixed "sport." Carry on.
posted by delfin at 2:23 PM on April 29, 2015 [6 favorites]
The hypocrisy of claiming to not support something/someone problematic when you do so with every dollar you've ever spent. Every artist, corporation, athlete... anyone has aspects to their character that we would never condone. It isn't big of someone to not like something to begin with and then proclaim how THEY don't support it with THEIR money because of something dark and unseemly.
posted by basicchannel at 2:25 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by basicchannel at 2:25 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
By that line of argument we're all complicit so what the hell, why even try to make ethical choices?
No thanks.
posted by Lexica at 2:29 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
No thanks.
posted by Lexica at 2:29 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
If you can't discern the difference between impotent rage/protestation and making a real difference, then I don't know what to tell you.
posted by basicchannel at 2:32 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by basicchannel at 2:32 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Grantland piece has an image of a voluntary statement filed in connection with one of the assaults.
It's by the nine-year old son of Mayweather and the woman he was beating.
It talks about how Mayweather showed up on the patio and knocked on his kid's door, so his kid let him in. And Mayweather told the kid to close the door. And then the kid heard yelling and came out and saw his father beating his mother. And when Mayweather was done beating the kid's mother, he took the kid's phone. So that the kid couldn't call the cops on him. And Mayweather's friend tries to keep the kid from running to the gatehouse where there was a security guard.
The worst part is, it's in the handwriting of the nine year old kid, complete with awkwardly printed letters, misspellings, and nonsequiturs clearly prompted by somebody saying to a nine year old, "Hey, you should write down the part you told me about _____."
Jesus fucking Christ. I don't even know what to do with myself.
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:32 PM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
It's by the nine-year old son of Mayweather and the woman he was beating.
It talks about how Mayweather showed up on the patio and knocked on his kid's door, so his kid let him in. And Mayweather told the kid to close the door. And then the kid heard yelling and came out and saw his father beating his mother. And when Mayweather was done beating the kid's mother, he took the kid's phone. So that the kid couldn't call the cops on him. And Mayweather's friend tries to keep the kid from running to the gatehouse where there was a security guard.
The worst part is, it's in the handwriting of the nine year old kid, complete with awkwardly printed letters, misspellings, and nonsequiturs clearly prompted by somebody saying to a nine year old, "Hey, you should write down the part you told me about _____."
Jesus fucking Christ. I don't even know what to do with myself.
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:32 PM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm always sort of surprised that after all of the scandals and genuinely unpleasant individuals in boxing that it's still around as a sport. Then I remember that I really don't like boxing in the first place, so I'm not in a good position to understand why people who do like it continue to like it.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 2:42 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 2:42 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
The hypocrisy of claiming to not support something/someone problematic when you do so with every dollar you've ever spent. Every artist, corporation, athlete... anyone has aspects to their character that we would never condone. It isn't big of someone to not like something to begin with and then proclaim how THEY don't support it with THEIR money because of something dark and unseemly.
That middle sentence misses the point so hugely that it's as if you aimed precisely in the opposite direction. You're either assuming that everyone famous is a moral monster, absent any real evidence, or you're conflating rape and murder with, say, eating your boogers or leaving a meager tip at a restaurant.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:42 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
That middle sentence misses the point so hugely that it's as if you aimed precisely in the opposite direction. You're either assuming that everyone famous is a moral monster, absent any real evidence, or you're conflating rape and murder with, say, eating your boogers or leaving a meager tip at a restaurant.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:42 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
It makes me sad that the public face of boxing is often guys like this when most of the amateurs I've met (whether boxer, MMA, muay thai, whatever) are quietly nice, sweet people. It does seem to be a cross-sport phenomenon to mainly hear about the bad actors, though; I barely know anything about football, but I certainly heard about Ray Rice's treatment of his wife.
posted by tautological at 3:01 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by tautological at 3:01 PM on April 29, 2015 [5 favorites]
I've seen enough modern boxing to know how this will end already. It'll go to the seventh or eighth round, Corporate Kane will run in and chokeslam Pacquiao, John Cena will run in and take Kane on and they'll do it all over again as a Fatal Four Way at Boxingmania.
Your comment lacked any discernible point.
posted by rankfreudlite at 3:04 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your comment lacked any discernible point.
posted by rankfreudlite at 3:04 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your comment lacked any discernible point.
Let me rephrase it, then. I have strong expectations that the outcome of this match, as with very many professional boxing matches, will be as predetermined as that of Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania, based on the wagering interests of those involved in the match's planning and their allied parties. At this point, the sport of boxing makes the film Snatch seem like a documentary.
posted by delfin at 3:15 PM on April 29, 2015
Let me rephrase it, then. I have strong expectations that the outcome of this match, as with very many professional boxing matches, will be as predetermined as that of Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania, based on the wagering interests of those involved in the match's planning and their allied parties. At this point, the sport of boxing makes the film Snatch seem like a documentary.
posted by delfin at 3:15 PM on April 29, 2015
What makes you think that delfin? Any real reasoning behind that or just "lolsportsball"?
posted by holybagel at 3:18 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by holybagel at 3:18 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't argue with you, but...where are you going to draw the line?
At pulling out your wallet. That seems to be the obvious choice.
If a Woody Allen movie is on cable, and you watch it, unless you're a Nielsen Family or something you're not contributing to him in any meaningful way. Similarly, if you pirate the Mayweather fight, I think that's a hell of a lot less morally culpable than paying $30 for it on Pay-Per-View. I still think it's worth spending some time staring in the mirror and asking yourself why, given that you have a very limited number of minutes on this earth, and it's filled with great art and entertainment that you will never get the time to watch, you are going to spend it watching some shitty guy beat up or get beaten up by an arguably somewhat less-shitty guy, but at the very least don't pay the guy. That seems like a pretty easy line in the sand to draw.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
At pulling out your wallet. That seems to be the obvious choice.
If a Woody Allen movie is on cable, and you watch it, unless you're a Nielsen Family or something you're not contributing to him in any meaningful way. Similarly, if you pirate the Mayweather fight, I think that's a hell of a lot less morally culpable than paying $30 for it on Pay-Per-View. I still think it's worth spending some time staring in the mirror and asking yourself why, given that you have a very limited number of minutes on this earth, and it's filled with great art and entertainment that you will never get the time to watch, you are going to spend it watching some shitty guy beat up or get beaten up by an arguably somewhat less-shitty guy, but at the very least don't pay the guy. That seems like a pretty easy line in the sand to draw.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's so much bad in the best of us,
And so much good in the worst of us,
That it ill-behooves any of us,
To speak ill of the rest of us.
--Edward Guest
(Paraphrased)
posted by rankfreudlite at 1:53 PM on April 29
Thanks for this. We can stop judging anyone for anything now. Empty the prisons of the most violent offenders, fire up the margarita machine, and let's beat up some women, baby!
posted by Awful Peice of Crap at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2015
And so much good in the worst of us,
That it ill-behooves any of us,
To speak ill of the rest of us.
--Edward Guest
(Paraphrased)
posted by rankfreudlite at 1:53 PM on April 29
Thanks for this. We can stop judging anyone for anything now. Empty the prisons of the most violent offenders, fire up the margarita machine, and let's beat up some women, baby!
posted by Awful Peice of Crap at 3:24 PM on April 29, 2015
I still don't get how Chris Brown has returned to the mainstream so quickly, never mind Mike Tyson.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:27 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 3:27 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I still think it's worth spending some time staring in the mirror and asking yourself why, given that you have a very limited number of minutes on this earth, and it's filled with great art and entertainment that you will never get the time to watch, you are going to spend it watching some shitty guy beat up or get beaten up by an arguably somewhat less-shitty guy,
But enough about the 2016 presidential election,
posted by Apocryphon at 3:28 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
But enough about the 2016 presidential election,
posted by Apocryphon at 3:28 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
Well, if I don't trust my own eyes watching certain matches, I could take the word of someone who's been there.
posted by delfin at 3:28 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by delfin at 3:28 PM on April 29, 2015
Stop liking what I don't like!
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:24 PM on April 29
posted by holybagel at 3:29 PM on April 29, 2015
Fair enough. That was a terrible decision. Boxing is a subjectively scored sport, meaning bad decisions happen.
What cabal do you think was behind this? Do you think the trilaterals or the illuminati are behind poor ball/strike calls in baseball or bad foul calls in basketball also, or is it JUST boxing these nefarious plots are occurring in?
posted by holybagel at 3:32 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
What cabal do you think was behind this? Do you think the trilaterals or the illuminati are behind poor ball/strike calls in baseball or bad foul calls in basketball also, or is it JUST boxing these nefarious plots are occurring in?
posted by holybagel at 3:32 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kadin2048: ...I think that's a hell of a lot less morally culpable than paying $30 for it on Pay-Per-View.
This one is $99.95, FWIW. He doesn't call himself "Money" Mayweather for nothing.
it's filled with great art and entertainment that you will never get the time to watch, you are going to spend it watching some shitty guy beat up or get beaten up by an arguably somewhat less-shitty guy
But none of that great art and entertainment is this particular kind of art, and if you enjoy this kind of art, none of it is likely to be created on this high a level again for a while.
I doubt this line of reasoning will change anyone's moral-culpability calculations, but I'll put it out there anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 3:35 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
This one is $99.95, FWIW. He doesn't call himself "Money" Mayweather for nothing.
it's filled with great art and entertainment that you will never get the time to watch, you are going to spend it watching some shitty guy beat up or get beaten up by an arguably somewhat less-shitty guy
But none of that great art and entertainment is this particular kind of art, and if you enjoy this kind of art, none of it is likely to be created on this high a level again for a while.
I doubt this line of reasoning will change anyone's moral-culpability calculations, but I'll put it out there anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 3:35 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's the reverse vampires and the American Medical Association in concert.
Of course it's not just boxing. Have we not seen innumerable scandals in international football, or basketball refs like Tim Donaghy accused of impropriety, or point shaving in college basketball on multiple occasions, or Joe Jackson refusing to say it ain't so?
posted by delfin at 3:51 PM on April 29, 2015
Of course it's not just boxing. Have we not seen innumerable scandals in international football, or basketball refs like Tim Donaghy accused of impropriety, or point shaving in college basketball on multiple occasions, or Joe Jackson refusing to say it ain't so?
posted by delfin at 3:51 PM on April 29, 2015
I don't like boxing. I don't even dislike it. It is just outside my interest--like the rest of watchable pro sports.
But I have noticed Mike Spinks. His quotes are cold-water-truth, each a gem, and miles beyond the usual bs.
They're easy to find. Here, for example.
"Everybody has a plan until they're punched in the face" has kept me modest more often than I would care to admit. I interpret it as: You need a plan B. Also a plan B-minus. Lacking those, you need a new plan.
Betrayal is also a major theme of his, one I have fortunately not much encountered.
posted by hexatron at 3:55 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
But I have noticed Mike Spinks. His quotes are cold-water-truth, each a gem, and miles beyond the usual bs.
They're easy to find. Here, for example.
"Everybody has a plan until they're punched in the face" has kept me modest more often than I would care to admit. I interpret it as: You need a plan B. Also a plan B-minus. Lacking those, you need a new plan.
Betrayal is also a major theme of his, one I have fortunately not much encountered.
posted by hexatron at 3:55 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
clawsoon: “"What do you do with this?"”“Time To Draw The Line”—Olbermann, 24 April 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 4:10 PM on April 29, 2015
Thanks for this. We can stop judging anyone for anything now. Empty the prisons of the most violent offenders, fire up the margarita machine, and let's beat up some women.Thanks for this (by the way, you forgot to mention why you are thankful). My comment was meant to indicate that people are complicated. They are a mix of good and bad actions. Sure, Mayweather was bad to beat the women. We should not, however, dismiss his athletic prowess. They are two separate and distinct things. I am not going to comment on your suggestion that we should "fire up the margarita machine" because it was a brain fart. Oh, and I am thankful that your comment afforded me the opportunity to dismiss it.
posted by rankfreudlite at 4:15 PM on April 29, 2015
I personally do not plan on ever watching this fight. But I respect people's decisions, especially on MetaFilter, to personally decide their actions and following consequences. And I would thank people for respecting each other's opinions (and personal experiences), while also being able to critique them out of discussion and not dismissal.
posted by halifix at 4:24 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by halifix at 4:24 PM on April 29, 2015
As best I can tell this thread is about boxers, not boxing. There is a difference...
posted by jim in austin at 4:27 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by jim in austin at 4:27 PM on April 29, 2015
hexatron you seem to have posted the wrong Mike's quotes
posted by LogicalDash at 4:39 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by LogicalDash at 4:39 PM on April 29, 2015
"Everybody has a plan until they're punched in the face"
That's nice and all, but how about this: "Once someone is punched in the face, they decide to develop a plan."
posted by rankfreudlite at 4:49 PM on April 29, 2015
Why isn't Mayweather in prison? He'd have a hard time staging this fight from the inside.
Our judiciary system is doing a shit job at handling these domestic abuse cases and a lot of people are asking sports leagues and/or the court of public opinion to enact some kind of justice. I don't think that's much of a solution.
posted by chrchr at 5:02 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
Our judiciary system is doing a shit job at handling these domestic abuse cases and a lot of people are asking sports leagues and/or the court of public opinion to enact some kind of justice. I don't think that's much of a solution.
posted by chrchr at 5:02 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
He already did his time in prison. He paid his debt to society and is trying to earn a living now.
posted by holybagel at 5:19 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by holybagel at 5:19 PM on April 29, 2015
The pay per view bout should be Mayweather vs. Cosby
posted by Renoroc at 5:26 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Renoroc at 5:26 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your comment lacked any discernible point.
Let me rephrase it, then. I have strong expectations that the outcome of this match, as with very many professional boxing matches, will be as predetermined as that of Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania, based on the wagering interests of those involved in the match's planning and their allied parties. At this point, the sport of boxing makes the film Snatch seem like a documentary.
Huh? Your argument seemed to be full of talking points but short on substance.
posted by rankfreudlite at 5:39 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Let me rephrase it, then. I have strong expectations that the outcome of this match, as with very many professional boxing matches, will be as predetermined as that of Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania, based on the wagering interests of those involved in the match's planning and their allied parties. At this point, the sport of boxing makes the film Snatch seem like a documentary.
Huh? Your argument seemed to be full of talking points but short on substance.
posted by rankfreudlite at 5:39 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kadin2048: If a Woody Allen movie is on cable, and you watch it, unless you're a Nielsen Family or something you're not contributing to him in any meaningful way.
Well, to be fair, you are. If it's on cable, it's because the cable company has already paid a licensing fee to show it, which they funded by you paying your cable bill. Less money goes directly to him as opposed to video-on-demand, and less goes to VOD than if you bought a ticket in the theater, but there is still a flow of cash there and it happens whether you watch the movie or not. I understand what some other posters are saying about where we draw the line-- based upon John Oliver's episode this past Sunday, it seems likely that all of us have at least one clothing item made by underage or poorly treated workers. Same too for smartphones and other electronics. This is a very clear case of a large sum of money going to a very flawed person, but there are probably a hundred other troubling things I've supported, either due to ignorance or laziness, and trying to walk that path is difficult when it's not such a clear cut case.
posted by bluecore at 5:40 PM on April 29, 2015
Well, to be fair, you are. If it's on cable, it's because the cable company has already paid a licensing fee to show it, which they funded by you paying your cable bill. Less money goes directly to him as opposed to video-on-demand, and less goes to VOD than if you bought a ticket in the theater, but there is still a flow of cash there and it happens whether you watch the movie or not. I understand what some other posters are saying about where we draw the line-- based upon John Oliver's episode this past Sunday, it seems likely that all of us have at least one clothing item made by underage or poorly treated workers. Same too for smartphones and other electronics. This is a very clear case of a large sum of money going to a very flawed person, but there are probably a hundred other troubling things I've supported, either due to ignorance or laziness, and trying to walk that path is difficult when it's not such a clear cut case.
posted by bluecore at 5:40 PM on April 29, 2015
one of the reasons that i don't watch woody allen anymore - even tapes i own, even things i've pirated - is because i can't hear the things that are so obviously in his voice next to the words of dylan (words that echo words i have said about my own family member). it's not about the money, it's about letting him throw a poster up in my brain. it's bad for my soul to watch his art.
same for mayweather - the words of his victims resonate with every punch and dodge. others can separate it. that's up to them and has nothing to do with me.
posted by nadawi at 5:48 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
same for mayweather - the words of his victims resonate with every punch and dodge. others can separate it. that's up to them and has nothing to do with me.
posted by nadawi at 5:48 PM on April 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
First fight in '98. First report in 2001. We've talked about sports-related TBI before. In some, symptoms appear after only a few knocks in the head. Wonder if it plays a role? Though he's taken less hits than most, and wife-beating shit-heels are not rare, either. Either way he's past his prime, this fight should have happened way before now, and I won't be watching.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 5:51 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by mrbigmuscles at 5:51 PM on April 29, 2015
First fight in '98. First report in 2001. We've talked about sports-related TBI before. In some, symptoms appear after only a few knocks in the head. Wonder if it plays a role?
First amateur fight in 1987, when he was 10 years old. But the attacks on women seem pretty well-planned, not "crimes of passion" driven by a failing brain. He brought a friend along to stop anyone from calling the police in one attack. He made sure to punch in places where bruises wouldn't be seen in another attack. Mayweather is still of sound enough mind to make sure that he "doesn't put himself in a position where he can lose."
posted by clawsoon at 6:19 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
First amateur fight in 1987, when he was 10 years old. But the attacks on women seem pretty well-planned, not "crimes of passion" driven by a failing brain. He brought a friend along to stop anyone from calling the police in one attack. He made sure to punch in places where bruises wouldn't be seen in another attack. Mayweather is still of sound enough mind to make sure that he "doesn't put himself in a position where he can lose."
posted by clawsoon at 6:19 PM on April 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
IMHO, the outrage brought on by an asshole making tons of bank as a public figure, shouldn't be aimed at folks here who consume his output.
I'd like to see it harnessed toward making the punishment fit the crime.
If I hacked into the NSA or Verizon I might see jail and not be allowed to make a living with a keyboard. If you beat women you shouldn't be able to capture the revenue you make with your fists.
And don't get me started on Justice Scalia and his intellect and 'wit'...
posted by drowsy at 7:23 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd like to see it harnessed toward making the punishment fit the crime.
If I hacked into the NSA or Verizon I might see jail and not be allowed to make a living with a keyboard. If you beat women you shouldn't be able to capture the revenue you make with your fists.
And don't get me started on Justice Scalia and his intellect and 'wit'...
posted by drowsy at 7:23 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
People – who probably can't even name four boxers - have no problem just deciding all boxers are trashy subhumans. Football, though, yeah, there's some murderers, but they hug at the end of games.
posted by ignignokt at 7:49 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ignignokt at 7:49 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it's on cable, it's because the cable company has already paid a licensing fee to show it, which they funded by you paying your cable bill.
There is still no meaningful difference based on whether you watch, or don't. The licensing fee is, or has already been, paid whether you watch or not. Unless you're one of the very rare people who actually feed into the ratings system, nobody cares whether your TV is on or not, or what you watch or don't. Again, we're not talking about people in aggregate here, we're talking about you, a single viewer, specifically.
But if you call up your cable provider and order a fight on PPV, you are specifically paying for that event in a way that you are not paying for Woody Allen cable movies. It's more akin to actually choosing to go to a movie theater and pay for a ticket when that film was on its first run (probably more so; the economics of PPV are in some ways more democratic than Hollywood blockbusters).
So I think there's a difference there, and there's a distinct difference between merely choosing what you spend your time and attention watching (though that's still something worth thinking about) and what you choose to directly support financially.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:37 PM on April 29, 2015
There is still no meaningful difference based on whether you watch, or don't. The licensing fee is, or has already been, paid whether you watch or not. Unless you're one of the very rare people who actually feed into the ratings system, nobody cares whether your TV is on or not, or what you watch or don't. Again, we're not talking about people in aggregate here, we're talking about you, a single viewer, specifically.
But if you call up your cable provider and order a fight on PPV, you are specifically paying for that event in a way that you are not paying for Woody Allen cable movies. It's more akin to actually choosing to go to a movie theater and pay for a ticket when that film was on its first run (probably more so; the economics of PPV are in some ways more democratic than Hollywood blockbusters).
So I think there's a difference there, and there's a distinct difference between merely choosing what you spend your time and attention watching (though that's still something worth thinking about) and what you choose to directly support financially.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:37 PM on April 29, 2015
And don't get me started on Justice Scalia and his intellect and 'wit'...
Well, I suppose it's better to be criticized for thinking than to be criticized for not thinking.
posted by rankfreudlite at 9:11 PM on April 29, 2015
I know! Tell me about it. Boxing is getting to be almost as bad as football with all of their obese, steroid abusing, wife beaters.
posted by rankfreudlite at 9:39 PM on April 29, 2015
posted by rankfreudlite at 9:39 PM on April 29, 2015
I'm an amateur boxer and spend a lot of time with pro boxers, and I also used to be a fight sports reporter, so I feel fairly qualified in saying that boxing (and other fight sports) has about the same ratio of garbage people to good people as other sports. I have not found the people involved to be inherently more prone to violence outside of the ring.
Now, all that said: fuck Mayweather. Everyone has been asking me for the last week who I'm supporting and who I think will win -- and I have forced all those people to have conversations about domestic abuse. I know they're just looking for some light sporting banter, but I think it's important to speak up about this. God knows the sports media isn't. Pretty much no one who has asked me about this fight has had any idea about Mayweather's background. (Ironically, I don't even have strong opinions about the fight otherwise and probably wouldn't watch it anyway; I enjoy boxing myself but I find it boring to watch on TV and don't really care who wins this fight).
posted by retrograde at 10:12 PM on April 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Now, all that said: fuck Mayweather. Everyone has been asking me for the last week who I'm supporting and who I think will win -- and I have forced all those people to have conversations about domestic abuse. I know they're just looking for some light sporting banter, but I think it's important to speak up about this. God knows the sports media isn't. Pretty much no one who has asked me about this fight has had any idea about Mayweather's background. (Ironically, I don't even have strong opinions about the fight otherwise and probably wouldn't watch it anyway; I enjoy boxing myself but I find it boring to watch on TV and don't really care who wins this fight).
posted by retrograde at 10:12 PM on April 29, 2015 [8 favorites]
Jinx, retrograde.
Same here, amateur boxer and martial artist, and I would say fighting sports have the same ratio of good to bad people as anywhere else. Being a skilled fighter doesn't make you better at beating up women -- any male asshole can do that without any training due to weighing twice as much and having more muscle mass, just due to testosterone. Saying boxing makes you more likely to attack others outside a ring is basically making the argument that playing Call of Duty makes you likely to go out and shoot up a mall. It might be true for schizophrenics but not for the average person.
Fuck Mayweather as well, the guy is a serial abuser. If anything, this should be a call for better support for abused women and harsher penalties towards abusers. Serially abusing multiple women is not something that should be punished by my decision not to watch a tv match, it should be punished with serious jail time. The guy should have done 5 years in jail. Same thing with the NFL, the only reason these issues are coming up in the court of public opinion is because the justice system has failed to protect women.
posted by benzenedream at 11:43 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Same here, amateur boxer and martial artist, and I would say fighting sports have the same ratio of good to bad people as anywhere else. Being a skilled fighter doesn't make you better at beating up women -- any male asshole can do that without any training due to weighing twice as much and having more muscle mass, just due to testosterone. Saying boxing makes you more likely to attack others outside a ring is basically making the argument that playing Call of Duty makes you likely to go out and shoot up a mall. It might be true for schizophrenics but not for the average person.
Fuck Mayweather as well, the guy is a serial abuser. If anything, this should be a call for better support for abused women and harsher penalties towards abusers. Serially abusing multiple women is not something that should be punished by my decision not to watch a tv match, it should be punished with serious jail time. The guy should have done 5 years in jail. Same thing with the NFL, the only reason these issues are coming up in the court of public opinion is because the justice system has failed to protect women.
posted by benzenedream at 11:43 PM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
same reason they let the rest of the famous serial abusers keep earning - fame and patriarchy are a hell of a drug.
posted by nadawi at 7:38 AM on April 30, 2015
posted by nadawi at 7:38 AM on April 30, 2015
I feel fairly qualified in saying that boxing (and other fight sports) has about the same ratio of garbage people to good people as other sports. I have not found the people involved to be inherently more prone to violence outside of the ring.Damning with faint praise.
IMHO, the outrage brought on by an asshole making tons of bank as a public figure, shouldn't be aimed at folks here who consume his output.Except when those folks are directly, literally contributing to that bank, of course. Of course, right?
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:02 AM on April 30, 2015
I take the same attitude towards him that I do towards Allen, Polansky, Wagner, etc. I'll enjoy their work when they're dead. I happily listen to Wagner, as he cannot benefit from it. I'm not really a boxing fan, but I can imagine myself sitting back to watch this when he dies.
posted by Hactar at 10:54 AM on April 30, 2015
posted by Hactar at 10:54 AM on April 30, 2015
CBC Radio's The Current did a segment on it this morning, and the end of the segment had something of an answer to gt2's question: None of the major players, no-one with money involved, was interested in talking with them. Denying access has proven to be a reasonably effective cudgel for the powerful and famous to use against the media for a while now.
posted by clawsoon at 7:09 AM on May 1, 2015
posted by clawsoon at 7:09 AM on May 1, 2015
Bill Simmons in Grantland writing the stupidest thing since he got suspended.
Who the hell could consider watching the Spurs Clippers game 7 versus watching this spectacle a dilemma? You can almost guarantee the Spurs Clippers game is going to be great up to at least the two minute mark and it could easily go to the very last shot. The odds are about 3-1 the fight will be a snooze from about 40 seconds in.
posted by bukvich at 6:12 AM on May 2, 2015
Who the hell could consider watching the Spurs Clippers game 7 versus watching this spectacle a dilemma? You can almost guarantee the Spurs Clippers game is going to be great up to at least the two minute mark and it could easily go to the very last shot. The odds are about 3-1 the fight will be a snooze from about 40 seconds in.
posted by bukvich at 6:12 AM on May 2, 2015
Floyd Mayweather Bans Michelle Beadle, Rachel Nichols From Covering Bout
Rachel Nichols' statement
posted by gladly at 5:54 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
While it is Mayweather’s team that is pulling the strings, it’s Showtime that owes the world an explanation. Why have they continued to sanitize their coverage of Mayweather’s history of domestic violence while continuing to unhesitatingly promote other aspects of his outside-the-ring lifestyle? Why did they allow Mayweather to air a one-sided self-produced infomerical in which he denied any responsibility for his convictions? Why are they blackballing important female journalists for having the temerity to question Mayweather about what everyone else seems to recognize is a legitimate topic; even cartoonish mega-shill Stephen A. Smith admitted that he thinks Mayweather is “probably” guilty after watching ESPN’s Outside the Lines coverage. Mayweather has made it clear that his boxing career will end this year, but Swanson’s relationship with the media, and Showtime’s ambitions to be a major player in the boxing world do not. It will be interesting to see how these events will affect them.Rachel Nichols, Michelle Beadle say Mayweather camp banned them
Rachel Nichols' statement
posted by gladly at 5:54 PM on May 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
“Stuck in the Middle of the Mayweather-Pacquiao Hype,” Cari Champion, ESPN, 30 April 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 12:01 PM on May 4, 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 12:01 PM on May 4, 2015
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Start with "stop paying for it". Ignore this asshole and his tainted sport.
posted by Fnarf at 1:10 PM on April 29, 2015 [7 favorites]