Does the moral universe arc?

June 29, 2015 2:33 PM

On conscience, morality, and Theodore Parker in part. "Look at the facts of the world. You see a continual and progressive triumph of the right. I do not pretend to understand the moral universe, the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways. I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice." -Theodore Parker, 1853.
posted by shenkerism (18 comments total)

I love the fuller quote and the context.

I actually do believe that the arc runs toward justice, but with even more caveats than Parker gives -- the arc could be a REALLY damn long one, the curve may well bend backwards toward injustice for great lengths of time, and most of all, our conscience and understanding of what justice is will always change and grow.
posted by feckless at 2:47 PM on June 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

"Look at the facts of the world United States. You see a continual and progressive triumph of the right."

Yes, I've noticed this too. : (
posted by crazylegs at 2:50 PM on June 29, 2015 [8 favorites]

It only does so if you keep pulling on it, and even then, it's never a given that enough people can pull hard enough. But if you don't do anything, you're definitely screwed.
posted by emjaybee at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

One benefit of living for a while is getting to personally see some long term trends. The world has significant problems now but when I compare with the way things were when I was just coming of age, I can clearly see improvement on many, many fronts. Of course sometimes you have to understand that recognition of a problem can initially make things feel much worse. They probably aren't, but it's hard to see that when you rapidly go from not even being aware of something bad to seeing it everywhere. Admitting that you have a problem is, as they say, the first step towards fixing it.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 3:32 PM on June 29, 2015 [9 favorites]

I don't get why people who hold to this view aren't more vocal on the possibilities for solving such problems as global warming and destruction of the biosphere.
posted by No Robots at 3:39 PM on June 29, 2015

Trying to judge by the events of one lifetime seems like trying to judge the physical curvature of the universe by measuring a small room. We are talking about the universe, here. Astrophysicists and historians try to measure the furthest frontiers of the past, and although they think things might be curved, the arc is so slight that it can't be proved whether it's there at all.
posted by sfenders at 3:42 PM on June 29, 2015

I would like to think that this is true, but it is difficult given the state of the world. The hope I have is best described by this quote from Vaclav Havel, to keep trying to do good because it is right, without knowing what the outcome will be or whether good or evil will win.


"Hope is a state of mind, not of the world. Either we have hope or we don't; it is a dimension of the soul, and it's not essentially dependent on some particular observation of the world or estimate of the situation. Hope is not prognostication. It is an orientation of the spirit, and orientation of the heart; it transcends the world that is immediately experienced, and is anchored somewhere beyond its horizons ...Hope, in this deep and powerful sense, is not the same as joy that things are going well, or willingness to invest in enterprises that are obviously heading for success, but rather an ability to work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed. The more propitious the situation in which we demonstrate hope, the deeper the hope is. Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out."

Vaclav Havel
posted by mermayd at 4:52 PM on June 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

Yes, I've noticed this too. : (

"Right" in the context of the quote means correct or just, not political leaning.
posted by Justinian at 5:01 PM on June 29, 2015

"Look at the facts of the ... United States. You see a continual and progressive triumph of the right."

Assuming "right" means "politically right," history doesn't agree with you. Hell, the events of the last week don't agree with you. Gay marriage? Win. Obamacare? Win. Republican gerrymandering? They lost.

Dale Earnhardt, Jr. came out and said the Confederate flag belonged in "the history books and that's about it." Dude, when you lose NASCAR, you lose.

Twelve presidents since 1945. Six of them Democrats. 70 years since 1945. Democratic presidents in charge for 37 of those years, and in 2016, it'll be 16 out of the last 24.

Oh, and it would've been 24-for-24, but George W. Bush won his elections by two of the top 11 narrowest popular-vote margins in history.

How about Congress? It's been tilted toward Democrats for the majority of the time since 1945. As recently as 2008, Democrats had complete control of the executive and the legislative. State legislatures and governors? It's even since 1945.

The No. 1 presidential candidate right now? Hilary. By a mile.

So when someone says we're on a steady march toward Amerikkka uber alles, I don't know what they're talking about.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:53 PM on June 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

I do not pretend to understand the arc of the thread, but from what I can see it curves towards not getting the joke.
posted by kagredon at 6:34 PM on June 29, 2015 [4 favorites]

All of a sudden I'm nostalgic for Roseanne Rosannadanna.
posted by happyroach at 7:36 PM on June 29, 2015

Cool Papa Bell: I think the author meant "right" as in opposite of "wrong", not "left".
posted by Freen at 5:37 AM on June 30, 2015

I don't get why people who hold to this view aren't more vocal on the possibilities for solving such problems as global warming and destruction of the biosphere.
No Robots

I think it's because environmentalism seems to have almost a religious component. It's almost a secular morality play, where the wicked will be punished for their iniquity and hubris. Sometimes people, even here on MeFi, seem almost gleeful about the idea of people dying for the collective environmental sins of humanity.
posted by Sangermaine at 6:43 AM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

I want to do the right thing, but I can't plot the curve without being able to rank the hierarchs. Is the Cosmic Muffin bigger than God?, and are they both Democrats?

Also, what are we supposed to do with all those people we rescued from Communism? Is it okay to just leave them alone now?

I may be in the wrong movie.
posted by mule98J at 6:48 AM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

It only [bends toward justice] if you keep pulling on it, and even then, it's never a given that enough people can pull hard enough. But if you don't do anything, you're definitely screwed.

Well, people are always conflating observation with prescription. Parker is observing an effect, which presumably arises from enough people pulling hard enough for a long enough time. He's also arguably prescribing an attitude, which is more or less 'this is not a fruitless pursuit.'
posted by lodurr at 7:21 AM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Cool Papa Bell: I think the author meant "right" as in opposite of "wrong", not "left".

CPB playin' on words, yo.
posted by lodurr at 7:24 AM on June 30, 2015

This all (and especially Cool Papa Bell's observations) remind me of something my wife likes to point out: The fact that people are losing their minds means that you're having an impact. If you weren't making a difference, they wouldn't care.

The pushback can be rough & ugly, but the fact that it's happening is not entirely bad news.
posted by lodurr at 7:25 AM on June 30, 2015

Yeah, I understood that the author meant "right" as in "good," and that I framed it as in "right-wing."

That was kind of the basis of my joke. Which isn't funny anymore now that it's been disemboweled.
posted by crazylegs at 9:18 AM on June 30, 2015 [1 favorite]