Jackie Fox, Kim Fowley, and the Runaways' Secret
July 9, 2015 7:29 AM Subscribe
In The Lost Girls , the Runaways' Jackie Fox tells for the first time of being raped by their Svengali-like manager Kim Fowley. The lengthy article also goes into the extreme power dynamics at play in the band's inner circle.
[Trigger warning: graphic depictions of sexual violence]
[Trigger warning: graphic depictions of sexual violence]
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
A rant about his evening plans by the then-32-year-old Fowley was the inspiration for the Flamin' Groovies' "Teenage Head" - dude was a creep, pedophile, and predator for half a century, and it wasn't exactly a secret in LA rock circles.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
It was terrible to read how some other members of the band mocked and joked about what happened to her, and still defend Fowley to this day.
posted by Windigo at 7:45 AM on July 9, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by Windigo at 7:45 AM on July 9, 2015 [12 favorites]
Jackie Fox is now an attorney and a trivia geek. I don't know her personally, but some friends of mine do. I really hope I get to meet her sometime; she seems like a super awesome person.
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:49 AM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Hubbins at 7:49 AM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's a grueling and depressing piece, but I'm glad I read it. What a brave woman! I'm glad she's come through about as well as one could come through that horrible beginning; I'm just sorry Kim Fowley died without having to confront his crimes as Cosby is now having to confront his.
posted by languagehat at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
On the one hand, Joan Jett was also a teenager when this was happening, so her not knowing how to respond is not surprising.
On the other hand, remaining lifelong friends with a serial predator, mocking his victims, and urging people to lie to help protect him is just about the worst possible response. The whole story is just horrifying.
(I only single out JJ from the rest of the band because she's still playing the speak to my rep/nope never happened game.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
On the other hand, remaining lifelong friends with a serial predator, mocking his victims, and urging people to lie to help protect him is just about the worst possible response. The whole story is just horrifying.
(I only single out JJ from the rest of the band because she's still playing the speak to my rep/nope never happened game.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:53 AM on July 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
This is absolutely heartbreaking.
Her life, her inner peace, her sense of well-being was ruined by this man, and then by turning her trauma into a joke -- and turning their backs, by her asshole former bandmates. She'll get no justice. And the only thing she can do is come to terms with what was done to her. It sounds like she's finally getting a chance to do that some 40 years later. I hope it brings her some peace.
All but one of her bandmates are still alive. They should step forward and support her. Especially Jett, who has made a name for herself fighting for women's rights.
posted by zarq at 7:54 AM on July 9, 2015 [11 favorites]
"Except, she says now, the rape had warped her life in ways she failed to recognize. She admits that intimacy is a constant struggle and that she’s barely dated since a brief marriage in the early ’90s. Sleep, always an issue for her, became more of one. The last time she dozed off feeling truly safe was 30 years ago. Just the memory of that rest on her grandmother’s couch in the middle of the day makes her cry. Also, because of the way the other Runaways had treated her, she carried this nagging feeling that maybe the rape was her fault. How could they have not supported her otherwise?"
Her life, her inner peace, her sense of well-being was ruined by this man, and then by turning her trauma into a joke -- and turning their backs, by her asshole former bandmates. She'll get no justice. And the only thing she can do is come to terms with what was done to her. It sounds like she's finally getting a chance to do that some 40 years later. I hope it brings her some peace.
All but one of her bandmates are still alive. They should step forward and support her. Especially Jett, who has made a name for herself fighting for women's rights.
posted by zarq at 7:54 AM on July 9, 2015 [11 favorites]
I highly recommend Cherie Currie's memoir, Neon Angel: A Memoir of a Runaway. It's astonishing the abuse The Runaways had to put up with.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 8:05 AM on July 9, 2015
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 8:05 AM on July 9, 2015
Count me as another person who is really fucking disappointed with how her former band mates are about this, especially Jett.
posted by Kitteh at 8:08 AM on July 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:08 AM on July 9, 2015 [16 favorites]
It's not inconceivable that Jett, like a lot of other people who witnessed or knew about sexual abuse of others as children but didn't do anything about it, has a shitload of guilt that she's still trying to work through decades later. It's also worth remembering that there were a lot of grown-ass men at that party who (unlike Jett) aren't being blamed in any way whatsoever.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:22 AM on July 9, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:22 AM on July 9, 2015 [29 favorites]
It was terrible to read how some other members of the band mocked and joked about what happened to her, and still defend Fowley to this day.
Everyone processes trauma differently, and I think this article lacks consideration for the perspective of what it's like to be a child who is forced to watch a trusted authority figure rape another child. I don't think the other band members can be blamed for not being able to deal with what happened as gracefully as a dispassionate observer would hope. Maybe I'm being too charitable, but I guess I can understand that it's Jett's prerogative to refuse to publicly comment on an experience that was probably traumatizing for her, too.
posted by telegraph at 8:22 AM on July 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Everyone processes trauma differently, and I think this article lacks consideration for the perspective of what it's like to be a child who is forced to watch a trusted authority figure rape another child. I don't think the other band members can be blamed for not being able to deal with what happened as gracefully as a dispassionate observer would hope. Maybe I'm being too charitable, but I guess I can understand that it's Jett's prerogative to refuse to publicly comment on an experience that was probably traumatizing for her, too.
posted by telegraph at 8:22 AM on July 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's also worth remembering that there were a lot of grown-ass men at that party who (unlike Jett) aren't being blamed in any way whatsoever.
I disagree with this framing. I blame those men much, much more than her. But none of them made careers based on female empowerment. I never thought of a rapist roadie as a role model, but I have often admired Jett. It is disappointing to find out that she picked team Fowler, and remained on it until his death. I'm not blaming her for being complicit in the rape. I'm saying that her response here and now makes me less of a fan.
Jackie's story is one of her reaching out to the people who were there on that night, and many of them have reconnected with her in order to help her heal. Jett, in her fifties, speaking through a representative to say that Jackie's memories are incorrect (even with several corroborative witnesses saying that her memories are completely accurate), is choosing not to be a part of it, and that bums me out.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 8:35 AM on July 9, 2015 [19 favorites]
I disagree with this framing. I blame those men much, much more than her. But none of them made careers based on female empowerment. I never thought of a rapist roadie as a role model, but I have often admired Jett. It is disappointing to find out that she picked team Fowler, and remained on it until his death. I'm not blaming her for being complicit in the rape. I'm saying that her response here and now makes me less of a fan.
Jackie's story is one of her reaching out to the people who were there on that night, and many of them have reconnected with her in order to help her heal. Jett, in her fifties, speaking through a representative to say that Jackie's memories are incorrect (even with several corroborative witnesses saying that her memories are completely accurate), is choosing not to be a part of it, and that bums me out.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 8:35 AM on July 9, 2015 [19 favorites]
You can't tell people how they are supposed to react to this. I've seen some hellacious shit doing sexual harrassment cases. People react in a lot of different ways.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:53 AM on July 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 8:53 AM on July 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
I highly recommend Cherie Currie's memoir, Neon Angel: A Memoir of a Runaway. It's astonishing the abuse The Runaways had to put up with.
The article mentions a memoir of Currie's where she wanted to fictionalize Jackie's rape in a really gross way. I'm assuming that this is a different book since the article says that the first one was pulled after Jackie threatened legal action, but it still makes me wary.
posted by imnotasquirrel at 9:34 AM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
The article mentions a memoir of Currie's where she wanted to fictionalize Jackie's rape in a really gross way. I'm assuming that this is a different book since the article says that the first one was pulled after Jackie threatened legal action, but it still makes me wary.
posted by imnotasquirrel at 9:34 AM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
The article mentions a memoir of Currie's where she wanted to fictionalize Jackie's rape in a really gross way.
That also happened around 2000, when it seems like a number of the people involved with the band were trying to process the experience/trauma as adults. Not everybody gets that all sorted out nice and neat all at once, or in private. Currie seems to have made a lot more progress on that, and the book in question was published in 2011.
I am willing to give all the members of the band a lot of leeway on the grounds of long-term abuse, and - as we've recently talked about in other threads - the extensive contortions women sometimes go through to contextualize their experiences in a non-threatening way to men, including selling out other women for safety. These were very young girls.
But Joan Jett is a 50-something year old woman who could have at least made an effort to issue a less snotty statement. God damn.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:21 AM on July 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
That also happened around 2000, when it seems like a number of the people involved with the band were trying to process the experience/trauma as adults. Not everybody gets that all sorted out nice and neat all at once, or in private. Currie seems to have made a lot more progress on that, and the book in question was published in 2011.
I am willing to give all the members of the band a lot of leeway on the grounds of long-term abuse, and - as we've recently talked about in other threads - the extensive contortions women sometimes go through to contextualize their experiences in a non-threatening way to men, including selling out other women for safety. These were very young girls.
But Joan Jett is a 50-something year old woman who could have at least made an effort to issue a less snotty statement. God damn.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:21 AM on July 9, 2015 [13 favorites]
Dammit, Joan. You've been my fucking hero for more than half my life. SAY SOMETHING. ACKNOWLEDGE IT. Just drop the tough chick facade for once and be human.
Not that that would change anything that Jackie went through. Jesus.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 10:36 AM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not that that would change anything that Jackie went through. Jesus.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 10:36 AM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
The original edition of Neon Angel was published in 1989.
Currie discusses Fowley's misogyny in a documentary;I can't remember whether it's The Mayor of Sunset Strip or Sunset Strip. I saw them both.
posted by brujita at 11:11 AM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Currie discusses Fowley's misogyny in a documentary;I can't remember whether it's The Mayor of Sunset Strip or Sunset Strip. I saw them both.
posted by brujita at 11:11 AM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Currie discusses Fowley's misogyny in a documentary;I can't remember whether it's The Mayor of Sunset Strip or Sunset Strip. I saw them both.
It's this one, I believe: Edgeplay: A Film About the Runaways. It was really interesting, and not especially kind to Fowley. Which, good.
posted by ApathyGirl at 1:23 PM on July 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's this one, I believe: Edgeplay: A Film About the Runaways. It was really interesting, and not especially kind to Fowley. Which, good.
posted by ApathyGirl at 1:23 PM on July 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've got Edgeplay, and while it's not without its problems, it's still very interesting, and yeah, it's not complementary to Fowley. Vicki Blue, one of the Runaways' other bass players (I think that there were three or four) who directed the documentary, wanted to interview Fowley for it, and Fowley would only do so if he were allowed to sing his answers, his logic being that he would therefore get royalties for his "songs".
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:57 PM on July 9, 2015
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:57 PM on July 9, 2015
I don't think what I saw was Edgeplay; I remember the movie being an aggregate of people who were involved in the Sunset Strip scene.
posted by brujita at 2:59 PM on July 9, 2015
posted by brujita at 2:59 PM on July 9, 2015
I don't think it can be over-estimated the amount of damage being in this situation can do to a woman's ability, as an adult, to process it. I'm inclined to have a lot of sympathy for the other members of the band for a variety of reasons; getting into details feels enormously ghoulish. I am enormously glad Fox and Krome found each other again and were able to connect and support each other, and that led to Fox getting more family support and comfort as well. I hope they, and the rest of the band, are able to find the safety they need to do the hard work of healing.
posted by Deoridhe at 4:20 PM on July 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Deoridhe at 4:20 PM on July 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
Memory is a weird thing. Maybe this was so traumatic for Jett she had to tell herself another version of the story to cope. If so, it's entirely possible she now actually remembers it differently. It can be pretty difficult to deal with evidence that some event in the past was significantly different from how you remember it, even if it's something much more mundane than this.
posted by straight at 5:04 PM on July 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by straight at 5:04 PM on July 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fuck you, Joan Jett.
Burn in hell, Kim Fowley.
ROCK ON, Jackie!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:27 PM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Burn in hell, Kim Fowley.
ROCK ON, Jackie!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:27 PM on July 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
It should also be noted that, while none of them have been accused of forcible rape that I know of, many other luminaries on the LA scene in the early-mid 70s were regularly committing statutory rape - e.g. Jimmy Page and the 14 year old Lori Maddox and Iggy Pop and the 13 year old Sable Starr. It was common enough that there was an entire, deeply creepy magazine dedicated to the underage groupie scene, Star.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:54 PM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 6:54 PM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
It just came out that Penelope Spheeris's 17-year-old daughter was dating Nikki Sixx (late twenties) around the time of the filming of the second Decline of Western Civilization movie in late 1987. Fetishizing underage girls was quite rampant until fairly recently.
posted by mirepoix at 1:04 AM on July 10, 2015
posted by mirepoix at 1:04 AM on July 10, 2015
Man, between this article and the links ryanshepard posted above, I just feel very, very sad right now. Not only for the rape and abuse that happened to Jackie Fox and so many of these other girls, but also for the fact that this vibrant, creative, brilliant bunch of young women wanted to make music and culture so badly that they were drawn to this scene run by powerful men who knowingly thrived on exploiting them, because that was their best available chance for self-expression. There's so much raw talent and nerve in the Runaways' music, but Kim Fowley's presence is always there, hovering lewdly just outside Cherie and Joan's banter, Lita's skill, Sandy's energy, and it always will be.
I think of these girls with their homemade glam rock clothes, their zines, their guitars, the music they loved to make, and I think about how men who fancied themselves rock stars just saw groupies and sex kittens, things to hurt and to use. I wish to God Kathleen Hanna could blaze into the past and burn it all down righteously, but the best we can hope is that women like Jackie Fox tell their stories loud enough everyone can hear.
And anybody who thinks Joan Jett escaped from this shit unscathed and laughing needs to give another listen to "Don't Abuse Me," "(I'm Gonna) Run Away," "Victim of Circumstance," You're Too Possessive," and on and on. I hear these songs and I hear a girl trying every way she knows to protect herself. That spiky voice didn't come out of nowhere.
Listen to me, you son of a bitch
You think you're so damned smart
But I got news for you
I'm gonna kick you out of my life
And when you come crawling back to me on your hands and knees on glass
I'm gonna spit in your face and laugh at your ass
Someday, my love
The things you've done will catch up to you
posted by thetortoise at 2:04 AM on July 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
I think of these girls with their homemade glam rock clothes, their zines, their guitars, the music they loved to make, and I think about how men who fancied themselves rock stars just saw groupies and sex kittens, things to hurt and to use. I wish to God Kathleen Hanna could blaze into the past and burn it all down righteously, but the best we can hope is that women like Jackie Fox tell their stories loud enough everyone can hear.
And anybody who thinks Joan Jett escaped from this shit unscathed and laughing needs to give another listen to "Don't Abuse Me," "(I'm Gonna) Run Away," "Victim of Circumstance," You're Too Possessive," and on and on. I hear these songs and I hear a girl trying every way she knows to protect herself. That spiky voice didn't come out of nowhere.
Listen to me, you son of a bitch
You think you're so damned smart
But I got news for you
I'm gonna kick you out of my life
And when you come crawling back to me on your hands and knees on glass
I'm gonna spit in your face and laugh at your ass
Someday, my love
The things you've done will catch up to you
posted by thetortoise at 2:04 AM on July 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
That was a difficult but important read. I shudder to think how many of these kinds of narratives have yet to come out. And how many will never be told.
posted by futureisunwritten at 9:36 AM on July 10, 2015
posted by futureisunwritten at 9:36 AM on July 10, 2015
I read this two nights ago and I've been thinking about it since. Through all the stories about the Runaways, it's clear that their success story is a brutal one. A combination of 70s hedonism, vulnerability, bravado and misogyny. My daughter loves Joan Jett. While I know she is an imperfect role model, I like the idea that my little girl who is into princesses and unicorns also thinks Joan Jett is awesome and loves to sing "put another dime in the Jukebox, baby!" But there's just something that has been impossible about the male dominated world we live in that if you want to play in it, as a woman, you will be exploited. The truth is while any of those girls could have opted to not pay the price, it's not much of an option. You either play the game or you are completely out. For Fowler, price of entry was: fuck me or you're nothing. And he wasn't kidding. And countless other men have made that the price for women to be in their space and countless men will continue to do so. Cult of personality is a real thing and it's clear that this guy had it. I've known many guys like this from my teen years on. The atmosphere around them is incredibly charged, full of peril if you show any vulnerability, and true repercussions if you get on the outs.
Joan's persona has been one of brittle, spiky, hyper-vigilance. At some point, she became a true "insider" with Fowler and I get that that is hard to walk away. And clearly these women at some point all turned on Jackie. So, Joan didn't like her, made an alignment with the devil, and can't figure out how to make things right. To make things right means to be vulnerable. I hope that she can find, now that he is dead, she can be vulnerable and make things a little more right. It would be nice to tell my daughter about both sides of Joan Jett.
Jackie is a hero. She is telling her story and it's a very important story for everyone to hear. This shit has got to die and people need to see how this stuff brutalizes real people and be vocal and vigilant.
posted by amanda at 4:03 PM on July 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Joan's persona has been one of brittle, spiky, hyper-vigilance. At some point, she became a true "insider" with Fowler and I get that that is hard to walk away. And clearly these women at some point all turned on Jackie. So, Joan didn't like her, made an alignment with the devil, and can't figure out how to make things right. To make things right means to be vulnerable. I hope that she can find, now that he is dead, she can be vulnerable and make things a little more right. It would be nice to tell my daughter about both sides of Joan Jett.
Jackie is a hero. She is telling her story and it's a very important story for everyone to hear. This shit has got to die and people need to see how this stuff brutalizes real people and be vocal and vigilant.
posted by amanda at 4:03 PM on July 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Being another disappointed fan of Joan Jett, I'm thinking of creating an online petition asking her to take a stand in solidarity with Jackie Fox against sexual assault. If you want to help draft the text let me know.
posted by divabat at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by divabat at 4:18 PM on July 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, super disappointed in Joan Jett, but it's not the end of the world. She's awesome, too, for other reasons. Kill yr idols; Gandhi ate during his hunger strike/slept naked with young niece; MLK, Jr. plagiarized, etc., etc.
People are complex, fucked up and awesome and fucked up again.
Not Kim Fowley, though: he can burn in hell.
And not Jackie: she's a hero.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:23 PM on July 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
People are complex, fucked up and awesome and fucked up again.
Not Kim Fowley, though: he can burn in hell.
And not Jackie: she's a hero.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:23 PM on July 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fox's approach to the world and her ex-bandmates seems to be one of love and support. If Jet is approached, I would hope we could learn from Fox how to be vulnerable and honest ourselves and let other injured people make their own decisions. Given the full context, I seriously doubt Jet is unscathed, and the idea of pressuring her to deal with that makes me feel really icky and sad.
posted by Deoridhe at 5:25 PM on July 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Deoridhe at 5:25 PM on July 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is it really icky to ask someone who is an outspoken feminist to stand in solidarity with survivors of sexual assault? I'm not asking her to go to therapy, I'm mostly asking her to say "I believe you, Jackie Fox", rather than claiming that the incident must not have happened because she doesn't remember it.
Petition's up.
posted by divabat at 5:54 PM on July 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Petition's up.
posted by divabat at 5:54 PM on July 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Anyone who truly knows me understands that if I was aware of a friend or bandmate being violated, I would not stand by while it happened. For a group of young teenagers thrust into 70s rock stardom there were relationships that were bizarre, but I was not aware of this incident. Obviously Jackie’s story is extremely upsetting and although we haven’t spoken in decades, I wish her peace and healing." - Joan Jett
--posted to her Facebook page today, 7/10/15
posted by SuperSquirrel at 6:33 PM on July 10, 2015
--posted to her Facebook page today, 7/10/15
posted by SuperSquirrel at 6:33 PM on July 10, 2015
You know, I really want to believe Jett didn't know of this incident, but there's Jackie's account and hers, and this tiptoes uncomfortably close to dismissal.
posted by Kitteh at 6:36 PM on July 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 6:36 PM on July 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is it really icky to ask someone who is an outspoken feminist to stand in solidarity with survivors of sexual assault?
In general, no. When it involves their own history, yeah. In the latter case, it is much more of a personal demand and involves a whole lot of stuff we know nothing about and we have no right to know anything about.
posted by Deoridhe at 12:56 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
In general, no. When it involves their own history, yeah. In the latter case, it is much more of a personal demand and involves a whole lot of stuff we know nothing about and we have no right to know anything about.
posted by Deoridhe at 12:56 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Now also Cherie Currie has officially and rather vehemently denied that this happened.
Really, I don't even think this is a moral failing on their part necessarily. I really believe that they really believe that it didn't happen - they don't want to believe they would have stood by, the trauma was buried under dozens of other traumas experienced around the same time, etc. Experiencing that kind of thing (regularly, not just once) when you're 16 can have awful affects on parts of your mind and soul, and that includes trauma that makes one want to forget certain things. 'She looked like she was passed out on the bed' becomes 'she was pretty drunk' becomes 'somebody, I'm not sure who, seemed like they were really in a weird passive mood,' etc. As Kari Krome said in the article, he victimized everyone present in that way. He shoved them into a closet of shame, making it impossible for them to speak about it without confronting their own apparent complicity - and for young teenagers, that's often enough to drive them to forget things through force of will or misremember the awful stuff in a less awful way.
I mean, that's basically just what Jackie says, but it seems true to me. This isn't about how the bystanders are guilty, no matter how guilty they may believe they are even today. It's about how they were victimized too.
Meanwhile, Kari Krome says in a press release that she stands by her comments and Jackie Fuchs' account.
posted by koeselitz at 12:16 AM on July 13, 2015
Really, I don't even think this is a moral failing on their part necessarily. I really believe that they really believe that it didn't happen - they don't want to believe they would have stood by, the trauma was buried under dozens of other traumas experienced around the same time, etc. Experiencing that kind of thing (regularly, not just once) when you're 16 can have awful affects on parts of your mind and soul, and that includes trauma that makes one want to forget certain things. 'She looked like she was passed out on the bed' becomes 'she was pretty drunk' becomes 'somebody, I'm not sure who, seemed like they were really in a weird passive mood,' etc. As Kari Krome said in the article, he victimized everyone present in that way. He shoved them into a closet of shame, making it impossible for them to speak about it without confronting their own apparent complicity - and for young teenagers, that's often enough to drive them to forget things through force of will or misremember the awful stuff in a less awful way.
I mean, that's basically just what Jackie says, but it seems true to me. This isn't about how the bystanders are guilty, no matter how guilty they may believe they are even today. It's about how they were victimized too.
Meanwhile, Kari Krome says in a press release that she stands by her comments and Jackie Fuchs' account.
posted by koeselitz at 12:16 AM on July 13, 2015
Maybe, koeselitz, but there's a lot of ground between "too damaged to remember properly" and essentially "siding with Fowley and gaslighting Jackie," and Ford and Jett appear pretty set on the latter.
This is from the Cherkis interview above:
This is from the Cherkis interview above:
JC: They have such a complicated history. I wish they'd resolved their differences a long time ago, because I think the resentments are still there, and still at play. I wish Lita Ford gave a shit because she doesn't and doesn't care at all. I brought it up to her, and she says, "I heard about it, obviously, but I don't have a comment. You can talk to Jackie." You could tell she had to force herself to say, five minutes later, "Oh, and rape is bad. It's a bad thing." But she didn't care to talk about what happened with Jackie. She just wasn't interested. At all. And Joan doesn't wanna talk about it at all. It wasn't a total surprise that she didn't. I think that she...I think the story speaks for itself in terms of what we say about her in the story.posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:40 AM on July 13, 2015
Joan very much believes in that rock myth Fowley [perpetuated]. In the L.A. Weekly she said, "These girls, they wanted to make him out to be this bad guy, but they're just blaming him for their own failure." That was the gist. "Was there abuse? If there was, why did we take it then?" So she was sort of defending him in this story. I think it was the one about Sandy West.
Jackie's statement in response to Jett and Currie is pure grace.
posted by palomar at 8:13 AM on July 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by palomar at 8:13 AM on July 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Maureen Herman of Babes in Toyland speaks out on BoingBoing.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 1:16 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by SuperSquirrel at 1:16 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
A post by Evelyn McDonnell, the author of the Runaways biography mentioned in Cherkis' article (although she isn't mentioned by name), giving her perspective on it. tl;dr--"[Jett] is not the villain here", and she has real problems with Cherkis' article.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:28 AM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:28 AM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's a great article, HJ – thanks.
Joseph Gurl: “Maybe, koeselitz, but there's a lot of ground between 'too damaged to remember properly' and essentially 'siding with Fowley and gaslighting Jackie,' and Ford and Jett appear pretty set on the latter. This is from the Cherkis interview above...”
Yeah, I have some problems with how Cherkis has gone about all this, and that interview is really problematic to me. He seems fiercely loyal to Jackie, which is great and all, but it's led him to attack a bunch of women who are absolutely not the culprits here.
The Evelyn McDonnell article posted in the comment above this one deal with this very well. There's an irony here; talking about a rape has ended up, once again, with a man going at women and accusing them publicly. Probably we men need to be a little more careful about controlling our urge to find a scapegoat whenever something traumatic has happened to someone. The first priority should be listening to the victim, not searching for someone to string up.
posted by koeselitz at 10:44 AM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Joseph Gurl: “Maybe, koeselitz, but there's a lot of ground between 'too damaged to remember properly' and essentially 'siding with Fowley and gaslighting Jackie,' and Ford and Jett appear pretty set on the latter. This is from the Cherkis interview above...”
Yeah, I have some problems with how Cherkis has gone about all this, and that interview is really problematic to me. He seems fiercely loyal to Jackie, which is great and all, but it's led him to attack a bunch of women who are absolutely not the culprits here.
The Evelyn McDonnell article posted in the comment above this one deal with this very well. There's an irony here; talking about a rape has ended up, once again, with a man going at women and accusing them publicly. Probably we men need to be a little more careful about controlling our urge to find a scapegoat whenever something traumatic has happened to someone. The first priority should be listening to the victim, not searching for someone to string up.
posted by koeselitz at 10:44 AM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
>There's an irony here; talking about a rape has ended up, once again, with a man going at women and accusing them publicly. Probably we men need to be a little more careful about controlling our urge to find a scapegoat whenever something traumatic has happened to someone. The first priority should be listening to the victim, not searching for someone to string up.
And one more irony: talking about talking about a rape has ended up, once again, with a man dictating the terms of the discussion, telling other people what their "first priority" should be (as if people can only have one) and that they should be "listening to the victim" as if the victim is in the midst of a non-stop 24-hour monologue and the slightest turn of the listener's head in any other direction risks completely missing her message.
More seriously, I get it, and I love Jackie's grace, but it's not at all unreasonable to be upset about Jett's current response and expect better, especially her fans, who have long looked up to her as a fascinating and strong feminist presence in rock music. She's unequivocally not the real villain--that would be Fowley, of course--but she's at the very least complicit, if not as a teen, when she can hardly have been expected to know better, then as an adult. I expect at some point she'll come around, in fact.
As for criticisms of Cherkis, well, I guess, but Jackie selected him, opened up to him, and he has tons of knowledge about the events that are unavailable to us, so second-guessing him seems a bit presumptuous. McDonnell, in her piece linked above, writes, "The fact is, almost no one said anything about what happened in that room for years—including most of the witnesses now coming forward," and that's a good point. I'm just as disappointed in those people as I am in Jett; I just don't know who they are.
(It also seems to me that the McDonnell article is largely a defense of her bio, which I'm fine with.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:43 PM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
And one more irony: talking about talking about a rape has ended up, once again, with a man dictating the terms of the discussion, telling other people what their "first priority" should be (as if people can only have one) and that they should be "listening to the victim" as if the victim is in the midst of a non-stop 24-hour monologue and the slightest turn of the listener's head in any other direction risks completely missing her message.
More seriously, I get it, and I love Jackie's grace, but it's not at all unreasonable to be upset about Jett's current response and expect better, especially her fans, who have long looked up to her as a fascinating and strong feminist presence in rock music. She's unequivocally not the real villain--that would be Fowley, of course--but she's at the very least complicit, if not as a teen, when she can hardly have been expected to know better, then as an adult. I expect at some point she'll come around, in fact.
As for criticisms of Cherkis, well, I guess, but Jackie selected him, opened up to him, and he has tons of knowledge about the events that are unavailable to us, so second-guessing him seems a bit presumptuous. McDonnell, in her piece linked above, writes, "The fact is, almost no one said anything about what happened in that room for years—including most of the witnesses now coming forward," and that's a good point. I'm just as disappointed in those people as I am in Jett; I just don't know who they are.
(It also seems to me that the McDonnell article is largely a defense of her bio, which I'm fine with.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:43 PM on July 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
'The Cruel Truth about Rock And Roll' (Ann Powers for NPR)
posted by box at 5:13 PM on July 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:13 PM on July 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Man, that Powers piece is pretty bad: OH NO NOW THIS RAPE STORY HAS CHALLENGED THE VERY IDEA THAT ROCK AND ROLL IS SOMETHING WORTH LOVING!!!" (direct quote. caps & histrionic punctuation mine.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:48 PM on July 15, 2015
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:48 PM on July 15, 2015
I may have read a different Powers piece than you did.
That, or the 'Oh no now this rape story has' portion of your direct quote is also yours.
posted by box at 5:11 AM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
That, or the 'Oh no now this rape story has' portion of your direct quote is also yours.
posted by box at 5:11 AM on July 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
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